Alex Curry (2:58)

We got it. We got to mix it up a bit, but did you pick Florida?

Jason McIntyre (3:01)

I did yesterday.

Alex Curry (3:02)

I'm like, did we talk about that yesterday?

Jason McIntyre (3:03)

You know, we talk about that.

Alex Curry (3:04)

You kind of just talked about how sad you were about Duke. So I'm like, I don't even know if we actually talked about who you were taking.

Jason McIntyre (3:10)

I had Florida. I think I mentioned it briefly. Okay, dive into the game, but it was a bit of a thriller.

Alex Curry (3:15)

Dude, you got to love when it comes down to the last minute of the game. That's all you can hope for in, like, a championship final game. So good job.

Jason McIntyre (3:24)

Yeah, that was great. We got a big show ahead. Former NBA center Ryan Hollins on the show. Joining us in studio, NFL running back Aaron Jones in the house. I'm very excited to talk to a guy who's played with Aaron Rodgers. What does he know about J.J. mcCarthy? We'll do some NFL draft stuff, but obviously, folks, we have to start with the Florida Houston Thriller in the national championship last night. I mean, what a game. It went from bad to, oh, this is gross. The refs are ruining it, too. Holy cow, what a comeback by Florida. And, folks, I'm sure you've heard about the great bestselling book Grit, right? The passion and perseverance in life. And essentially, one of the big takeaways from the book is those who are going to succeed in life. One of the great predictors of success is, do you have grit? Are you just throwing in the towel at the first sign of a problem? Are you bailing? Or are you going to figure out how to solve the problem and get through it? And this season in college basketball, we saw the Florida Gators lose three really close games. They were excellent all season. Only lost four games. One was a blowout, but three close ones. And what happened in the NCAA tournament? Comebacks in the second half four times by the Gators. The cardiac Gators, they came back when they Were trailing Yukon. Texas Tech, they were down 10. Auburn on Saturday, they were down nine in the second half. And then last night down 12 against Houston. I'm told by all the guys who cover college basketball all season, you can't come back against Houston. The defense is just too tough. Florida said, hold my beer, please. And the Gators storm back with a thrilling final minute. Folks, look at these comebacks that they've had all tournament. And the game against Houston last night was just the perfect capper. Houston had three possessions in the final minute. They didn't get a shot off and they turned the ball over three times. That, my friends, was incredible. And how about the grit displayed by the great Walter Clayton? Now he's a divisive figure in NBA circles. What's he going to be? You know, you got. You got a pundit at ESPN saying you got to take him third in the draft.

Capital One Bank Guy (5:28)

What?

Jason McIntyre (5:29)

Let's not go that overboard. Listen, I like Walter Clayton a lot. He had zero baskets. Zero for the first 32 minutes of the national championship. Is a guy who had back to back 30 point games. He had 34 against Auburn. He had no baskets. What, he did he panic? No, no, he just attacked the basket, buried a three, had nine clutch points in the final eight minutes and Florida is champ. Here's their coach, Todd golden talking about how defense rode the way. We've been a top 10 defense all year also, and we've been able to stand up against really good offensive teams and find a way to get stops. We held them scoreless the last 220. And Walter, great closeout and condo, great hustle play to win the game. And that's what made this team special all year, is that we could win different ways. And we showed that again tonight. I gotta be honest, guys, I'm not gonna lie. I was on Florida. I was extremely nervous. Down 12. I thought, how are they going to pull this off? Even when Houston had the ball in the final 20 seconds with a chance to win the game. I love the Florida adjustments. Defensively, they blitzed both of the Houston guards, USAN and crier. We're not letting you shoot it. We're going to double you. And they get it over to Sharp, who has, for my money, just the most unfortunate, memorable mistake at the end of a college basketball national championship since Chris Weber called timeout, a timeout he did not have against North Carolina. I felt so bad for the kid. Sharpie had two turnovers in the final 25 seconds. Dribbled it off his leg. I was like, oh, My gosh, that's devastating. I felt really bad for Houston, but at the same time, Houston Cougars fans. Now you know how us Duke fans felt on Saturday night as Duke was melting the game away, just handing it to Houston. Duke was up nine with three minutes left and gagged. Houston up 12 in the second half and then can't even get a shot off in the fight. Look at that. Clayton, of course, with the closeout. Clayton heroic. A quick word on the refs, and I don't want to be bag on the refs guy. And anytime somebody says that they're going to be bag on the refs guy. The refs called four total fouls in the first half. That's it. They let Houston do what they wanted. Defensively, Houston is grabby and handsy. That's why they're the number one defense in the country. Well, what happened in the second half? The refs came out and were like, oh, wait, we. We can't allow this. We got to call everything. 26 fouls in the second half. So from 4 to 26. Well, what's the impact of 26 fouls in the second half? Well, Florida is able to actually run an offense, you know, without being held and jostled. And then Florida starts getting to the line. They hit their free throws. An amazing comeback, a great capper to folks. I'm going to go ahead and say I think this was the greatest final for this century. You had three games all determined in the final 90 seconds, and three games all the team that won had trailed at halftime. I think it was a phenomenal final four. All right, let's pivot to the NFL draft and oh, boy, things are getting spicy at the top. Now, I do want to preface this by saying, by nature, I think I'm a risk taker. I could tell you stories about my family coming from the Caribbean to America back in the 60s and 70s, but I won't bore you with that. However, I myself am a risk taker. Many of you who know my story, I was at a magazine in New York City. I decided to quit to run a sports blog full time. You can imagine how that went over to the future in laws.

Greg Rosenthal (8:54)

Oh.

Jason McIntyre (8:55)

So, Jason, how's work? Yeah, I quit my job to run a sports blog and I get this blank stare. What's that? You know, this was like 2006, 7. And I obviously got a little lucky with it and it paid off. But taking a risk worked. So nine years ago, you know, Colin Cowherd and Fox come to me and they're like, hey, would you move across the country to try your hand at tv? Risk taker, Jason. Yeah, let's give it a shot. Why not? Family was like, are you sure about this? So far, so good. We'll see what the future holds. But taking risks in life, you know, high reward, high risk. I like being a risk taker. I do some gambling. I don't mind playing the card games in Vegas. Enter the Cleveland Browns, who are in risky territory at number two, if we assume Kim Word is going one to Tennessee, which everybody has. What's happening at two is all over the place. So everybody knows one of the best news breakers in the NFL is Adam Schefter. He does a great job. In February, he said it made sense for the Browns to draft Shador, say a quarterback. Not Shador, a quarterback at 2 in March, he came out and said, you know what? Abdul Carter is the lean right now for the Browns. Here we are in April, and Schefter comes out this week and says, you know, it looks like Travis Hunter is going to go two to the Browns. Folks, nobody knows what Cleveland's going to do. Let's stop pretending like anyone has a clue. It all comes down to what would you do? And this is where I get risky and I say, I'm taking Shador Sanders. I understand he doesn't have elite arm strength. He doesn't have elite escapability. He doesn't have elite size. I mean, you know, frankly, he doesn't, didn't have elite protection at Colorado. So I don't think we've seen the best. Shador Sanders. Could he be Tua? A highly accurate quarterback who's kind of sort of limited by his size? Sure, he could be Tua. I, I, I don't think that would be the worst thing in the world. Tua's a good quarterback. He's had a couple good runs. If he could stay healthy, you know, he's been paid. Dolphins got to the playoffs with him. Could he be Tua? Sure. Could Shador Sanders be Zach Wilson? Yeah, that would not surprise me either. Could he be Trey lance? Who? The 49ers. Riskily. Is that even a word? Traded up in the draft. They went up to get Trey Lance, who I believe is out of the league currently. He may end up on a roster, but I think the Cowboys have moved on with this new Joe Milton move. So, folks, do you risk it by going Shador Sanders at 2? I keep hearing Abdul Carter. He, he's safest, safest pick in the draft. Okay, well, you start to Drill down on Carter. He's coming off a surgery. He's got like a foot thing. And then there are reports about like, is, was he the hardest worker at Penn State? You know, maybe, maybe this is people trying to poison the water for Abdul Carter. I think he looks like a great football player, but safe. You know who else was safe? Chase Young, coming out of Ohio State. Remember him? One of the Bosa twins. Not twins, sorry, Bosa brothers who was with the Chargers for a long time. I thought he was supposed to be safe. Like they just moved on from him, you know, good player, but he was supposed to be safe. What does safe mean? Is Travis Hunter that safe? Okay, great. You've got a wonderful wide receiver. What are you going to do with him? Go ask the Giants how that worked out with Malik Neighbors. They got three different quarterbacks thrown to him and they're not winning anything. So what is safe? And I'll counter that with, I go, I take the risk and I go, Shador Sanders. Because you know what? If I get Hunter and I got no quarterback throwing to him, I'm probably getting fired. If I'm the front office. If I got Abdul Carter and Miles Garrett coming off the edge, oh, exciting. I got no quarterback. But Jay, you're forgetting Kirk Cousins to Cleveland. What about the rumors? Well, guys, I, I looked it up. Kirk Cousins, his last five games in Atlanta, he had one touchdown and nine picks. He was benched. Now, could that be because of the Atlanta offense? Maybe. Could it be that Kirk Cousins is washed? That's also possible. Is he going to work out in Cleveland and the outdoor situations in that division? I don't know. He seems like an indoor quarterback to me. I know he went to Michigan State, but I don't think Kirk Cousins is a slam dunk. Let's not pretend that. That magical run by Joe Flacco where he won what, five games, they got to the playoffs and they got smashed by 50 because he threw two pick sixes. Let's not act like that is definitely going to duplicate itself with whoever you put in at quarterback. I take a risk and I grab Shador. Could you wait until the second round and get Cowherd's favorite guy, Mr. McCord from Syracuse? Sure, you could do that. Guys, I just, I just went down the list of the best second round quarterbacks ever drafted. Brett Favre, home run with Green Bay, not his first team. Geno Smith, kind of sort of thriving now in a late season surge. It didn't happen with the jets when they drafted him, he was a Risk. Second round, he didn't work out with the Jets. Andy Dalton, I won't even say Cowherd's nickname for him, but he has zero career playoff wins. Could he be Jalen Hurts? Or Drew Brees, the second round quarterback who thrives and wins the Super Bowl? Sure, two quarterbacks won Super Bowls. Obviously, Boomer Siason was the second round pick. You can hit on them. But this idea that, hey, Shador is a huge risk. Isn't everyone a risk? I mean, guys, I hate to break it to you. Cam Ward at 1, as much as I like him, he's a risk. You know, he's good at Washington State, great at Miami. Is he going to work in the NFL? Nobody knows. And that's why we could talk about the NFL draft for nine months out of the year, because nobody knows a damn thing. But I'm telling you right now, if you want to be a risk taker, Shador Sanders is your guy at number two in the draft. Cleveland, I'm just here to help. That's all we do, Alex. We're trying to help these teams out. And I think you got to go. Shador Sanders, too, in the draft, it's.

Alex Curry (14:50)

Also like the most important position on the team. And if you have a gaping hole at the most. Who. Who's driving your ship, the most important position, you have to go after it if the option is there.

Jason McIntyre (15:02)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (15:03)

Especially at number two.

Jason McIntyre (15:04)

You know, and I. I hear all this talk, oh, well, you could draft Travis Hunter, then trade back in the first to get your door. You don't know reports that the Saints love him at nine. Yeah. You going to jump it up to eight? You giving up all that draft capital, it just feels like too many gymnastics.

Alex Curry (15:17)

I think that, like, when you say like, safe, I think the safest thing about both Travis and Chador is their leader, their coach, Deion Sanders, who is obviously Shador's father, but a father figure for Travis. Like, he. We heard him talk about that and cry about that at his Heisman acceptance speech. He knows what it takes to win in the NFL, so he's preparing these guys to be able to be successful at that level. So I think when you say like, safe, that might be the closest. Like, mentally, I think they'll be ready for it.

Jason McIntyre (15:50)

Safe or risk, you know, take chances in life. It's fun. All right, coming up next, wait till you hear what a former NBA. We'll call him a superstar. We're going to call him a superstar. Said about the most influential debate between LeBron and Stan. Steph Curry. That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

Capital One Bank Guy (16:14)

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Jeremy Hobson (16:43)

We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.

Alex Curry (16:49)

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

Jeremy Hobson (16:52)

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Jason McIntyre (17:00)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

Jeremy Hobson (17:02)

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

Jason McIntyre (17:07)

Thanks for having me. Jeremy.

Jeremy Hobson (17:08)

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Jason McIntyre (17:10)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (17:11)

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

Jason McIntyre (17:16)

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

Jeremy Hobson (17:19)

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

FDIC Wendy (17:28)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

Jeremy Hobson (17:36)

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (17:42)

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're gonna be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Bob Pittman (18:11)

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like Chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin.

Jason McIntyre (18:37)

The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.

Bob Pittman (18:42)

I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.

Alex Curry (18:46)

I wanted a way to do something.

Bob Pittman (18:48)

That I loved for the rest of my life. We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times, like Stefan Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the Magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Jason McIntyre (19:20)

Back here on the herd we're going to talk about my top five NBA title contenders at the top of the hour. The list is narrowing folks. And by the way, keep an eye on the Clippers. I don't know if you notice what they're doing lately. Good things. But who knows if Kawhi is going to even be around. I saw my main man Shaq. Gosh, I was such a Shaq fan back in the day. I'm not kidding. I got to keep it real, keep it fully authentic. My LA fans hate when I LA fan friends hate when I say this. I was a Shaq guy over a Kobe guy. I was like so distraught when the Lakers traded Shaq. But obviously it worked out for both. Kobe won without him with Pau Gasol. Shaq one got one in Miami. And now Shaq is thriving with inside the NBA. And now he's got a podcast called the Big Pod with Shaq. And since everybody's got a podcast now, you have to weigh in on the big topics you know that TV shows like this one weigh in on. So Shaq was asked who's been more influential in basketball on the court seems to be where it was specific to LeBron or Steph Curry, two guys who have dominated the league for about a decade now. Here's what Shaq had to say. LeBron was always there, but when Kobe was fading out, that's when LeBron Pune and then you got Steph Curry Pune. Actually I'm gonna go with Steph Curry is more influential because a double hot take. If you look at all basketball, it's being Played like Golden State warriors now. Lot to chew on there. So I need to back it up, you know, come back a little. So how do you define influential in basketball? Like, it's a tough word. Like if you want to just measure someone's accomplishments, MVP titles, blah, blah, blah, scoring, whatever, that's easy, right? You could stack those. But how do you measure influence? And I do think Shaq makes a rare good point that Steph Curry's three pointers ushered in the three point era. I mean, technically you could say, you know, the spreadsheet jockeys who were like, hey guys, hey, hey, three points is more than two. We should be shooting more threes. You could argue that that was the case and that led to more threes from Curry. Also the Houston Rockets and Daryl Morey, they deserve credit for being at the forefront of that as well. I would say Curry has made defending 30 foot three pointers and logo threes. He's made that hugely influential in the league. Dame Lillard has, has been doing those now. But like, you have to guard Steph Curry 25, 30ft from the hoop or he'll kill you. Look at what the Houston Rockets did on Sunday night. They're double teaming him and trapping him all over the half court. You've never seen that before. If you want to laugh at something and I love bringing this up and oh boy, did the Jordan sick of fans hate it. Go to The Jordan Bulls vs Clyde Drexler Blazers playoff series. You can look it up on YouTube. The game where Jordan hit like 15 threes, it wasn't 15, obviously in the first half. Go look at the defense on Michael Jordan. They are not even putting a hand up on over half his threes. They're like, you want to shoot the three, go for it. We're going to pack the lane. We're going to pack it in and prevent you from getting to the rim. They weren't even putting a hand up on most of the threes Jordan made. Now they're guarding Curry 30ft from the basket because he'll drain them like it's nothing. Same deal with Luca. That to me has been hugely influential. Now if Shaq wants to involve off the court stuff, I think that tilts the pendulum toward LeBron, the player empowerment era, which a lot of people don't like and maybe ending because of the, you know, the new salary cap rules and the aprons. LeBron completely changed that and I think for the better. Remember, LeBron was ticked off that the Celtics created a big three with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, LeBron. One guy in Cleveland, he can't get by that big three, right? So Danny Ains puts that group together. LeBron can't get by him and is like, I gotta go create my own super team. So he went to Miami and started, I believe, the player empowerment era. Danny Ains got the big three started. LeBron put his team together, and since then, everybody's been trying to, hey, let's buddy up. It's the Olympics. Hey, hey, what do you think? Let's get together. Famously, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant going to Brooklyn, which was a train wreck, but we're seeing a lot of that. And that's all a testament to LeBron off the court. You could also factor in the bubble that happened during COVID That only happened because LeBron pushed it. If you guys want to go back and do the research, Kyrie Irving tried to scuttle it. He was very unhappy. That was when Kyrie and LeBron weren't getting along. LeBron made that happen, ended up winning the championship. So off the court, LeBron has done a ton to warrant. Hey, man. He's more influential, but on the court, yes, I can see the argument from Shaq that Steph, because of the gravity, where he sucks the defense all the way out to him at mid court and opens up three on twos for Draymond and four on threes, yes, that has been more influential. That being said, isn't it kind of sort of impossible to duplicate 6, 9, LeBron, or 6, 8, whatever you want to call him, who has the speed of John Wall and the power of Karl Malone? You can't duplicate that on the playground. Steph Curry. You can. You know, you go to any youth league basketball game, and you're going to see kids just jacking threes. I instruct my kid, hey, we want threes or layups. I don't care if you miss your first seven threes. Just keep shooting. Who cares? Threes are layups. That's what the NBA has become. Now, I know some. Some purists don't like that. I think Curry's influence, and Shaq is correct, is definitely a big edge on the court over LeBron James. Let's go to Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no.

FDIC Wendy (25:13)

Turn on the news.

Jason McIntyre (25:14)

This is the Herd line news.

Alex Curry (25:17)

I think you nailed it there. Like with Curry, his influence is with the younger generation, right? Because you can actually see yourself. A lot of these kids can see themselves in.

Jason McIntyre (25:27)

I am Steph Curry. I wear number 30 in my men's Leagues, Alex. I'm not kidding.

Alex Curry (25:30)

I am.

Jason McIntyre (25:31)

Coryo. We got custom jerseys. I got 30. I'm not.

Alex Curry (25:34)

My whole family does too. Like, obviously. Guys, my cousin. I tell everybody he's my cousin.

Jason McIntyre (25:38)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (25:39)

All right, let's get started with your jets because New York has had nine straight losing seasons and five straight double digit loss seasons. But new head coach Aaron Glenn has a new message for the team. And here's what he had to say.

FDIC Wendy (25:53)

Understand what phase one is really about, man. We're trying to get bigger, faster, stronger, and more explosive. And that's the only thing I want the players worrying about at that point. All right, we have a lot of time for scheme. We have a lot of time to talk about super bowl and playoffs. But right now, man, building our culture and building our environment and that build is the most important thing right now to me.

Alex Curry (26:14)

This is smart because with the jets, you have to go back to the basics. Right. You haven't been to the playoffs in 14 seasons, which is the longest active streak in the NFL, just to rub it in a little more. But you can't talk about Super Bowls until you create a winning culture, until you create a winning environment. And I think that if people don't want to hear that this is the right attitude. You have to have to come in and really start from the ground up with an organization. Do you think, okay, this is your team? I know it's like a.

Jason McIntyre (26:46)

It's a little sensitive.

Alex Curry (26:47)

It's hard. But do you. Do you feel like Glenn's the right guy?

Jason McIntyre (26:50)

Well, I, I don't know. Is that okay to say? I don't really have a hot take. I mean, like, it's sounds good.

Alex Curry (26:56)

Is it too close to home?

Jason McIntyre (26:57)

Well, I, I think right out of the gate he's like, aaron, we're building a culture. Aaron Rodgers is not for us.

Alex Curry (27:02)

Yes.

Jason McIntyre (27:02)

Like that. That became obvious, right?

Alex Curry (27:03)

Yeah. That's good.

Jason McIntyre (27:04)

Rogers wants to do his thing.

Alex Curry (27:05)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (27:06)

He's gonna. Whatever. We. That doesn't work for us. We want a core group of guys to get together and develop something together. It's easier said than done, right? Would you agree with that?

Alex Curry (27:17)

Yeah, but I mean, you have to start with that kind of an attitude. Every. I've covered a bunch of different championship teams across all the sports. Right. And every championship team has the same, like the same recipe, the same three things. First thing is like, everyone buys into the coach or the leader, the captain's message. Right. And then two, everyone believes that this is the group that can get you there. There is like that just that unconditional belief that we can do this. And then there's a lightness, like everyone's having fun. So it really sounds like a basic, like a basic thing. But this is what Glenn is talking about. You have to create that winning culture where everyone buys in to the idea. Everyone believes that this is the group and you're having fun doing it because you're still playing a game. Like, remember, you are getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. Have fun doing it and then you're going to be successful.

Jason McIntyre (28:09)

I just, I wonder. You were, you were covering like the Angels, right? How many guys on a baseball roster? Like 25, something like that? 30.

Alex Curry (28:15)

40 man roster.

Jason McIntyre (28:16)

40. Okay.

Alex Curry (28:17)

There's a lot.

Jason McIntyre (28:17)

NFL is over 50.

Alex Curry (28:20)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (28:20)

That's super, super difficult.

Alex Curry (28:22)

It is.

Jason McIntyre (28:23)

Instill a culture with that many dudes and guess what? This is. A lot of guys in there have not won jack squat in the NFL. Yeah, a lot of guys like their quarterback, Justin Fields, he basically has a.

Alex Curry (28:34)

One year deal, but he's hungry for it. He's. He's on a prove it deal. Right. And you know that there is potential there. He wasn't, it was not the right fit.

Jason McIntyre (28:43)

So in Chicago, he's on a prove it deal. He is Justin Fields, you have to prove it. You know what else? Garrett Wilson, you're going to be up for a contract soon. Breece hall, you're going to be up for a contract soon.

Alex Curry (28:54)

Everyone's on to prove it. So everyone needs to do well. Or it could be great because everybody needs success.

Jason McIntyre (29:00)

Or is everybody looking out for number one? I mean, Justin Fields is going in nine.

Alex Curry (29:04)

It's not a looking out for number one kind of sport. Like it's a team sport. You have to rely on each other. Like you're not going to be great if your quarterback's not great if you're a wide receiver. Like if you don't have your wide receiver on your same page as a quarterback, you're not going to be great. Like it's a different situation. I think it can work in their favor. But everyone, again, everyone has to buy in and everyone has to buy in to Aaron Glenn's.

Jason McIntyre (29:25)

How do you think they're buying into that? Report that the jets want a multiple two headed backfield when Breece hall is one of the best backs in the league and looking at a big contract. I think Garrett Wilson feels when they bring in Devonte Adams last year, he's like, what the hell? I know it sounds great to be like, everybody's Got to buy in. But, like, it's.

Alex Curry (29:43)

They do.

Jason McIntyre (29:43)

Stuff is in.

Alex Curry (29:44)

But that's the culture. I know, but that's what he's talking about. It's building the culture. That's what you have to do.

Jason McIntyre (29:50)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (29:51)

Oh, you're.

Jason McIntyre (29:52)

It's.

Alex Curry (29:52)

You're. You're beaten up. You're beaten up about.

Jason McIntyre (29:54)

What is it, 14 years? No. Playoffs.

Alex Curry (29:57)

Yeah. The longest active streak. Brutal.

Jason McIntyre (29:59)

Not fun.

Alex Curry (30:00)

All right, let's move on to Tyreek Hill, who is back online. Yesterday, the Dolphins wide receiver tweeted a peace sign, which set off waves of speculation among NFL fans. Now, Tyreek's been back and forth on his commitment to the Dolphins over the last few months, and this is the latest example. And you know what, J. Mac? This is. This is the classic example of you don't know what you got till it's gone. Right? Like, he was in the best situation with a dynasty with the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes. Like, you literally had it as good as it's going to get in the NFL. And you chose for a money grab over that, which, as an athlete, no one is going to get mad at you for that. That is your decision. It's a very small window for an athlete to make all of your money. And there are two ways you can go. You can take less money and be on a championship team, or you can take the most money and probably not be on a winning team. But he made this decision, so you. I don't feel bad for him. You chose to leave the dynasty.

Jason McIntyre (31:02)

I mean, the Chiefs kind of made it easy. Like, we can't.

Alex Curry (31:05)

You know, that's what I'm saying. You have to take less money if you want to stay with a championship team.

Jason McIntyre (31:09)

I don't know. I just. If I'm Mike McDaniel, I. You know, how do you build a culture in Miami when you got this clown out here saying, I'm out, Deuces. You know, like, this is what. The third time he. I think he ended the season by saying it, then he did some social media nonsense, and now he's doing it again.

Alex Curry (31:25)

Yeah. So he likes to create.

Jason McIntyre (31:27)

Yeah. Very Odell of him.

Alex Curry (31:29)

He likes to create drama using NFL.

Jason McIntyre (31:33)

Locker rooms like that.

Alex Curry (31:34)

No, absolutely not. Like, you also want a guy that wants to be there.

Jason McIntyre (31:39)

I. I just. I was trying to trade options, too.

Alex Curry (31:42)

Where do you think you'd go?

Jason McIntyre (31:44)

I just don't know. Who wants to add this disgruntled, like, overpaid. W. No.

Alex Curry (31:49)

And listen, I know.

Jason McIntyre (31:50)

Healthy and locked in. He's hella good if the Steelers didn't.

Alex Curry (31:52)

Just sign Metcalf, he like Tomlin could handle this great. Cuz that's what he does at his age too.

Jason McIntyre (31:59)

He's getting up there in age.

Alex Curry (32:00)

I know he's still, he's still though a number one. I thought he still got the speed.

Jason McIntyre (32:06)

Could have taken a chance with Jim Harbaugh being like, dude, get your acting.

Alex Curry (32:09)

That could work.

Jason McIntyre (32:10)

But that could work. I mean they still need weapons.

Alex Curry (32:13)

Yeah, they do. And I feel like Harbaugh is a guy that you coach, a leader that you would respect. He creates a culture. That's what he did last year, immediately turned them into a winning team.

Jason McIntyre (32:21)

So my only advice to Tyree Kill, not that he asked.

Alex Curry (32:24)

Yep.

Jason McIntyre (32:25)

Is clean up your life off the field. I'm sure you've read about all these. I mean, oh yeah, bro, it's bad, it's bad. And then you worry about the team and the culture. So like he, he focus on football again. I'm not bashing the guy. The reality is he's got like, yeah.

Alex Curry (32:40)

He'S got a lot of noise. A lot of noise in the locker room, off the field and back at home.

Jason McIntyre (32:46)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (32:46)

And it's not good noise. Just put it that way. Okay, let's switch to the NBA. When the Lakers traded for Luka Doncic, it also cleared a lot of space for Austin Reeves to be the clear third option. And he has delivered. The Lakers are 26 and 8 and when Reeves scores 20 or more points, they are 18 and 18 when he does it. So I don't know if you remember, Reeves talked about this a little bit ago, but LeBron saw his potential very early on and Austin credits LeBron for it. He said Ever since day one. I remember my rookie year, he was on my booty for a two week stretch and I was getting frustrated. When I would mess up in games, he would critique me a lot. I would get frustrated and he kept coming after me and he just wanted me to be better. And I can't express how much this helped Austin Reaves become the player that he is. To have one of the greatest of all time be hard on you and push you to be the best that you can be. You can't ask for a better teammate and leader and someone that's willing to invest their time in you because they see that potential and he is a part of the Lakers big three.

Jason McIntyre (33:55)

Yeah, LeBron has a decent eye for talent just a little bit. My favorite thing about Austin Reeves and I, I've been a president of the Austin Reeves Fan club for quite some time.

Alex Curry (34:04)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (34:06)

What's it. He's like a big golfer too, isn't he? It's like a. I think on social media, he's a big. He's got like outside interests. I just love everything about this dude.

Alex Curry (34:13)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (34:14)

And I remember in the NCAA tournament, he was at Oklahoma and he was playing undefeated Gonzaga. You guys can look it up. It's on YouTube. And Gonzaga with Jalen Suggs, who's an amazing defender in the NBA, could not stop him. Yeah, they had Nemhard, who's with the Pacers, could not stop him. Drew Timmy, the big guy. They had like four pros on that team. Nobody could stop Austin Reeves. He cooked for. Hold on. 27 points. I remember it. And I tweeted out that day. Austin Reeves is a pro.

Alex Curry (34:39)

That guy. He's great.

Jason McIntyre (34:41)

And his story is with the Lakers. He is outstanding. And I.

Alex Curry (34:45)

He credits LeBron James, like that. Like to have. To have the. The greatest in our game right now. Literally push you to be the best that you could be your rookie year. That is the reason he is where he is right now. That is the reason.

Jason McIntyre (35:02)

Yeah. You know, we're in the take business, Alex. I will not forget when I came on this show and I said, oh, Austin Reaves, he's better than Mark. Mark Price, who was the Cavs point guard in the 80s one went to all star games. He was all NBA.

Alex Curry (35:16)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (35:16)

And all these people jumped down my throat. Some guy did a specific video about how great Mark Price was. Folks, Austin Reaves is a real deal. He is telling he could do everything.

Alex Curry (35:27)

Rebound this team on nights that Luka and LeBron are off.

Jason McIntyre (35:31)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (35:31)

Like he is putting up same numbers.

Jason McIntyre (35:34)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (35:34)

As one of the greatest in LeBron James and the future of the league. And Luka Doncic, like Austin Reaves is the real deal and a part of this big three on the Lakers.

Jason McIntyre (35:41)

Huge fan.

Alex Curry (35:42)

Yeah, big. Me too.

Jason McIntyre (35:43)

All right, Alex Curry with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. All right, coming up, there was a report late yesterday about the Suns. They don't want to trade Kevin Durant. Oh, boy, wait till I hear the rest of that story. That's coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

Rick Bucher (36:07)

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends, friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino Enrich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe Noanrich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

Capital One Bank Guy (37:03)

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh, really? Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC.

Jeremy Hobson (37:33)

We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.

Alex Curry (37:39)

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

Jeremy Hobson (37:41)

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Jason McIntyre (37:49)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

Jeremy Hobson (37:52)

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

Jason McIntyre (37:57)

Thanks for having me, Jeremy.

Jeremy Hobson (37:58)

Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

Bob Pittman (37:59)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (38:00)

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

Jason McIntyre (38:05)

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

Jeremy Hobson (38:09)

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

FDIC Wendy (38:17)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

Jeremy Hobson (38:25)

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (38:31)

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're gonna be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Bob Pittman (39:01)

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin.

Jason McIntyre (39:26)

The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.

Bob Pittman (39:31)

I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.

Alex Curry (39:35)

I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.

Bob Pittman (39:39)

We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times, like Stefan Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the Magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Jason McIntyre (40:10)

So since Kevin Durant popped his Achilles against the Raptors in the Finals, he has had two playoff series wins. That's it. He's also been swept twice. He's on his second team. So Brian Winhorst, who's a great reporter, he went out yesterday and said that the Suns do not want to trade Kevin Durant. And it was very puzzling for a really Quality report reporter in Windows to come out and say, that's like, wait, why is he saying that now? I wonder what's going on. And then I looked and I was like, oh, the Suns could get eliminated from the play in if they lose tonight and other things happen. They play the Warriors, Suns are probably going to lose. KD will not play. So it's interesting on the eve of the Suns getting eliminated, that Huge luxury tax bill, the Brad Beal untradable contract. Devin Booker, who went from being in the Finals and nearly beat the Bucks to now, oh, my gosh, we can't even make the freaking play in. And Kevin Durant, who they tried to trade last month. Folks, it's all pointing to the Suns are trying to get ahead of damage control and prevent this from being like a two month. Where's Kevin Durant going to go? Because that's what's headed for the next two months in the NBA. He's the big name. He's 36, turns 37 in September. Okay, so we're batting around ideas in the morning meeting about where KD could go. I pushed the Rockets a little while ago. A lot of people like the Rockets. Other people are saying, well, maybe the warriors, maybe the Knicks. And one of our guys had a really good one. He goes, what about the Minnesota Timberwolves? And I said, damn, that's good. Do you remember what Anthony Edwards said about his guy, Kevin Durant earlier this year? Yeah.

FDIC Wendy (41:55)

Anywhere as Kevin Durant plays, I'm gonna be ready to play him.

Jason McIntyre (41:58)

Not.

FDIC Wendy (41:58)

Not because, like, me versus him.

Jason McIntyre (42:00)

Yeah, me versus him.

FDIC Wendy (42:01)

But more so, just like, that's my favorite player of all time. He's the greatest player to me of all. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like, I want to beat him.

Jason McIntyre (42:08)

Now. That is spicy. I did not put it together until this morning, and I'm like, well, KD and Anthony Edwards. Does that work? Hell, yeah. It works on multiple levels because, A, it's. You're keeping your superstar happy, which you have to do in the league. Now, remember, we just saw the maps trade Luka Doncic a few months after he got them to the finals. Still crazy. Do you keep Anthony Edwards happy? Yes. Is there new ownership in Minnesota? Yes. What does new ownership typically like to do in sports? As a minority owner of a soccer team in Mexico, I can tell you the answer is go out and get superstars, make big waves, do interesting things. It would be very interesting if the Timberwolves made a play for kd. Now, here's the problem. What's the trade looking like? So I've been tinkering on the trade machines that are out there on social. On social media. It ain't easy, but some sort of package involving Julius Randall probably who's. Listen, I like him, but I don't. It just. It never seems to work out anywhere he goes. Maybe you get off the Rudy Gobert contract. Maybe you have to include a Rob Dillingham, I wouldn't want to. But the Suns are not in great shape and they have to do something. They cannot have the biggest luxury tax bill in the league and not even make the playoffs. So yesterday Rick Bucher came on. Remember, I've been pushing this Houston. If Houston loses in the first round, they've got young pieces and they've got picks. Picks are important because I'm going to turn back the clock real quick. Rudy Gobert went for four first round picks. Mikhail Bridges went for five first round picks. But the calculus changed when Luka Doncic was traded. Maybe the picks aren't as good as everybody thinks they are. I mean, hell, if Kevin Durant goes to Minnesota, like they're going to be good. The picks aren't going to be valuable. So you kind of want stars in return, which is what Dallas got for Luca Anthony Davis, super Max Christie, who again, Max Christie's good. You guys can poo poo him all you want. And a pick. They should have probably tried to get Austin Reeves as well, but that's neither here nor there. And Rick Bucher came on and here's what he said about the Rockets maybe making a move for kd.

Rick Bucher (44:25)

His committed lack of relate leadership. His committed, I just want to hoop. And you play. You take a player of that talent and bring him into your team, it just, it screws up the dynamic. And I love this dynamic of the Rockets. And yes, I do think they need to upgrade there, but I wouldn't sacrifice that for a roll of the dice on a Kevin Durant.

Jason McIntyre (44:51)

Now that's interesting that he would not sacrifice all the youth they have. It feels like they have a culture. I don't know if Durant would clash with Ime Udoka, who is spicy as hell and will say whatever's on his mind, which I respect because I like to think I'm the same way sometimes. But Kevin Durant is an interesting, divisive figure. So he was in Oklahoma City. He had James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Who do you think the leader of that team was? Because Kevin Durant, as Rick said, is on record. I don't, I don't want to be a leader. I just want to hoop. I just want to go out and play basketball. Well, unfortunately, buddy, that's part of the deal. When you become a franchise player, face of the franchise, and you're a superstar, you've got to be a leader. And he just didn't really embrace that. So Russell Westbrook's like, I'm the leader. And then Russell Westbrook said, well, thought since I'm the leader, I get all the shots. And it just didn't quite work out between KD and Russ. And if you remember famously, the cupcake saga, there's a thought around the league that KD's soft and he's mentally fragile. I don't totally agree with all of that, but some of the stuff laid out by other players, reporters, pundits, it kind of sort of makes sense. Now I'm rooting for KD again. I thought he was the best player on the planet. It was a perfect seamless fit in Golden State. He didn't have to be the leader. Leader was either Curry the quiet leader or Draymond the alpha who kind of ran KD out of town. So is there a team that KD fits where he could just seamlessly slide in? I think Houston, maybe Minnesota would be perfect because guess what? Anthony Edwards is the leader of that team. He's the man. It all goes through. And is Rudy kind of getting in the way? Sort of. But he's, he's been a good defender. No doubt. I just think this, this is going to be a summer of Kevin Durant. The biggest problem that people overlooking is what are you giving up for a guy who's 36, going to be 37 in September? You're not giving up four or five first round picks. You're just not doing that. Are you mortgaging your future for a year or 2 with KD? And let's be real, even with Durant in Houston or Minnesota, they're not the favorites. There's no way they're the favors. OKC still got a much more well rounded roster. Boston vastly superior to anything KD and Ant would put together. But from like a marketing perspective and a branding, oh my gosh, Timberwolves games are going to be a show. KD and Ant, those are two electrifying players and you kind of sort of have the Luca LeBron vibe. With LeBron at 40, KD 37, Luca in his prime, Ant in his prime. You've got those, you know, big gaps in years of age, but also the talent gap combined should be able to push teams like Denver, okc. I think it's a winning situation. I haven't heard other people mention Minnesota's Atlantic spot. Got to shout out Zach. Really well done floating. And this is why we do do a collaborative effort. Alex, like I like to think I have all the answers. I don't. It's a collaborative effort and I don't know your thoughts. KD and Anthony Edwards in Minnesota.

Alex Curry (48:00)

I think it could work. It's a fun. It's a fun thought. It's just, is Katie gonna have the right attitude and he's gonna mesh there? That. That's what it's gonna come down to. Is he gonna feel like it's the right fit for him and is he going to give it all he's got? Because he makes it very clear when he's not, he's not happy.

Jason McIntyre (48:20)

What do they say? You never want to meet your heroes? Is that what the saying is?

Alex Curry (48:23)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (48:23)

I wonder if Ant wants to play with his hero.

Alex Curry (48:25)

Didn't he say he wanted to? He wants to beat his hero?

Jason McIntyre (48:28)

I think he does.

Alex Curry (48:28)

Yeah. He said he wants to beat him. That would be cool. It could be.

FDIC Wendy (48:33)

All right.

Jason McIntyre (48:33)

Coming up next here on the Herd, my top five NBA title contenders. You have to know who's going to be at 1, right? Hint. It's not okc.

Capital One Bank Guy (48:44)

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just asked the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Oh, really? Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com Bank Capital One NA Member.

Jeremy Hobson (49:10)

FDIC we live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (49:42)

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to sit say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Jason McIntyre (50:11)

What's up everyone. Julie Swearbanks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson. We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go. The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb. Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right? Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us. Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe. Listen to Energy Line with Nate and JSB on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.