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- [00:00]
Jason McIntyre
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
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- [00:24]
Colin Cowherd
No offense Jim.
- [00:25]
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- [00:33]
Colin Cowherd
The Herd is brought to you by Grainger. If you work as a maintenance manager, your facility is your home turf and your home field advantage is having a partner like Grainger. They offer trusted professional grade products for every industry from lighting and electrical to safety and everything in between, plus next day delivery. Which is why they always come through in the clutch just like you. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays and firing off a few bets on the game. All with DraftKings sportsbook. If you've never been on baseball before, it's easy. Just pick a guy to go yard, hammer some live odds mid game, or just ride your squad. Hope for the best. So download the DraftKings sportsbook app. The code, as always, is heard. H E R d that's code herd new customers 150 bucks in bonus bets instantly just betting five bucks only on DraftKings. The crown is yours.
- [01:30]
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- [02:03]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast.
- [02:26]
Jason McIntyre
Hello and welcome. It is a beautiful Monday morning from Los Angeles and I'm not Colin cowherd. I'm Jason McIntyre in for Colin he was supposed to be back today, but I don't know. You know, something's going on with Cowherd. No, just kidding. He had some travel issues. I'm sure he will tell you all about it tomorrow. Nobody loves an airport like Colin Cowherd. He'll have many stories when he is back, but you got me for one more day. And honestly, I think cowherd heard blew off today because my Cooper flag take last week was so good. And it was reinforced over the weekend that they had to have me back to talk about it. And fortunately, we got a great show today, folks. I'm flying solo. Yes, that's it. It's just me. You got me for three hours. I mean, come on. You know, I love to talk. I can handle this. No big deal. And we have some great guests coming up. My main man, Chris Broussard coming on in the final hour. We used to do his podcast together, and I would just beat him up on NBA topics because I'm very intelligent when it comes to basketball and football. And Brouss star is going to join us in the final hour. We got Jeff Schwartz stopping by, Matt Hasselbeck. It's going to be a great show, and we're going to do a lot of NFL with obviously camps opening up for rookies this week. We do want to start with the NBA, because one thing happened over the weekend, which we'll get to momentarily. But do you guys remember last month where all the reporters who cover the NBA kept saying, strap in. There's a crazy NBA summer ahead. You never know what's going to happen. Stars could be on the move. There was so much hype. It reminded me as a young kid, there was this Kevin Costner movie coming out in the 90s called Waterworld, and it was the most expensive film ever. This thing was hyped to no end. It comes out, and it was an absolute flop. Just a bomb. It did okay box office numbers, but it was basically considered a disaster. And that's NBA free agency. Folks were two weeks in, and there's one story, and that's lebron James, who is shockingly very hurt. And to quote Ron Burgundy, he's offended and he's hurt. And LeBron was at NBA summer league over the weekend to check out his son, Bronny James. As you can expect, an NBA reporter went up to him and said, hey, LeBron, would you care to talk about the upcoming Lakers season? Lebron said, I got nothing to talk about. And he shut it down. Lebron, the man of breadcrumbs. On social media, giving the media nothing. Well, you know, you could look at it this way in what's been a disastrous NBA free agency for the league. I mean, listen, when Miles Turner is your big move, ain't a Damn thing happened. LeBron has been carrying us. He's giving us content for weeks because he's offended and hurt that the Lakers did not offer him a new deal. So LeBron decided, I'm going to go ahead and opt in and I'm going to get my $52 million. And then for two weeks, he is really not happy that the Lakers are catering to Luka and they're not involving LeBron in future plans. And that obviously has LeBron upset. Now, it's been a minute since we've talked to Jovan Buha, who was on the show last week, to tell us just why LeBron starting to get upset at the franchise.
- [05:45]
Jovan Buha
This is the first time you could say in LeBron's career he hasn't been the sole focus or the primary focus of his franchise that he's been on. Like, even with A.D. it was like it was always LeBron trying to pass the baton to A.D. luka just came in and got the baton right. Like, I get it. He's a guy who's about to enter his prime, has already led a team to the Finals. But LeBron's just, I think the big thing is like he sees the finish line, whether it's another year, two years, and he wants to win that fifth ring. And it doesn't feel like the Lakers are going all in on this year's roster.
- [06:16]
Jason McIntyre
He's kind of sort of right, Jovan, of course, here on the show last week. But let's just start with some of the facts. Okay, here are the facts. LeBron showed up to the Lakers and they were in the wilderness, lost. You can attribute that if you want to the end of the Kobe era, that's fine. But bottom line is they had the worst five year run in franchise history. LeBron saved the Lakers, period. That's a fact. That's an inarguable fact. Gets them to be contenders. Gets them Anthony Davis. They win a championship in 2020, okay? They get back to the conference finals. People forget that against Denver, and then LeBron gets to hand pick his coach. Give me my guy, J.J. redick for my podcast. Okay, LeBron. Check. Can you draft my son? Sure. Check LeBron. The Lakers catered to LeBron because LeBron saved them all. Understandable. And it makes total sense where things go awry was when Luka Doncic all of a sudden hits the market out of nowhere and the Mavs trade into the Lakers. And then the calculus changed. The Lakers move away from LeBron and to Luca. But in an absence of actual information here in the last two weeks, it's all breadcrumbs from LeBron on social media. Look, he's wearing a hat that says welcome home while he's playing golf in Ohio. He wants to be a Cav Again. When there's an absence of information, come the conspiracy theories, come the ideas, and everybody's floating stuff. And now over the weekend, we see four teams are monitoring the LeBron situation. Who are they? Well, unconfirmed reports from various reporters. It's the Dallas Mavericks. Come on, give me a break. That's zero shot of the Mavs happening. The LA Clippers. Yeah, that's what LeBron wants to do. Go across town to the Paperclips to play with Harden and Kawhi. That's comical. The Cleveland Cavaliers, now that was interesting. But you listen to any salary cap guy in the NBA and there's no chance of it happening. The Cavs are already deep into the second apron. And I don't want to bore you with luxury tax and all these repeater tax. The Cavs could not make LeBron happy. It's borderline impossible. Not Tom Cruise, Mission impossible. There's a nod to Cowherd, but just it can't happen. And then the last one is the Golden State warriors, which could only happen if it was Jimmy Butler for LeBron. And why are the Lakers doing that? So again, I understand LeBron's pouting. He has a right to be a little ticked off. Totally understandable. But at the same time, he's got to be self aware and be like, oh, I'm 40. Luca is, you know, in his prime, mid-20s. Of course they want to build around him. LeBron, I listen, you guys know I'm a LeBron guy and I had a fun stat. Somebody hit me with. I totally forgot. Over the weekend, LeBron has been the MVP of the Finals on three different teams. It's an unbelievable accomplishment. Look, in American sports, it's difficult to find guys who have been the championship game or series MVP for two teams. LeBron's done it for three. It's another reason why he's the goat, okay? He. Anywhere he goes, he wins. And I totally get that, and I get what he's done. But it's about Luka now. And I think LeBron's just got to understand that, because sadly, Ron, you're not going anywhere. Now, I want to pivot to the NFL because listen, as I said at the outset of the show, mid July means rookies show up in training camps, right? And then the week after come the veterans. And in that little in between, we got two or three days here we get like the MLB All Star break and we get a bunch of lists in the NFL. So ESPN had an interesting list of the top 10 quarterbacks heading into 2025. And just so I get it accurate here, it's according to executives, coaches and scouts. And you see it here on the screen. If you're watching on FS1 radio audience I'm going to tease you for a little bit, but these are the top 10 quarterbacks according to executives who are executives around the league. Guys, just give that a thought for a second. Coaches and scouts. Now the top four are obvious every year, right? In whatever order you want. Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar, Josh, Allen. Okay. Executives love Patrick Mahomes. The guy's amazing. After that, it gets difficult. Five through 10 is a big question mark and I'm pretty certain if, and we will never get this, but if we got the ages of the executive coaches and scouts, I think we could draw a line between what we're seeing here on the screen and what the actual rankings are. I don't have any disagreement with the top four and nobody should. The order we can quibble over, but the reality is 5 through 10 is extremely difficult. And I cannot believe that Jalen Hurts was once again utterly disrespected by executive coaches and scouts. Jalen Hurts has been to two Super Bowls. He went toe to toe with Mahomes in one of them and was nearly the mvp, but they lost. Then he smashed Mahomes this past February in the super bowl and with the mvp. And Jalen Hurts is only ninth, the ninth best quarterback in the NFL. Well, there is another interesting thing that came up in the meeting this morning and that was if you look at that list of the top 10 guys, Jalen Hurts is the only non first round quarterback. First impressions matter. Oh, were you a first round pick? Well, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt over and over and over again. I keep hearing that, oh well, Jalen Hurts has a stacked deck, Jay. Does he really? I was, I was unaware of that. I was unaware that he had a different offensive coordinator every season. He's been in the NFL for all this Jared Goff love and Jared Goff's on the list. He's good. He would make my top 12. Jared Goff came into the league, got Jeff Fisher, was totally terrible, and then gets gifted Sean McVeigh, one of the sharpest offensive minds of this generation. And then he goes to Ben Johnson, one of the most coveted offensive coordinators in the last 10 years. And Jared Goff is better than Jalen Hurts. Oh, Jared Goff was the number one overall pick. That's right. First impressions matter. Now, we did have a spirited chat because I'm very bullish on Hertz. I have him unequivocally number five. These executive coaches and scouts have Jaden Daniels at five, and that's fine. Jaden Daniels was amazing last year. Let's see the numbers on Jalen Hurts from the pocket because this is the big knock on Jalen Hurts. He doesn't win from the pocket. Oh, really? Well, I have actual data that flies in the face of the idea that Hurts doesn't win from the pocket. He was second in completion percentage. And it's not a check down Charlie situation because he's just, as you see here, he was third in yards per attempt, eight and a half. He was fifth in passer rating, 14 touchdowns, 14 from the pocket. We say, Jay, okay, he had one good year. Well, I'll remind you, Jaden Daniels had one good year, was the greatest rookie year ever. But, oh, we've got three years of data from Jalen Hurts in the pocket, guys. Wouldn't you know it? He's been hella consistent. 72%, 71, 74 passer rating. Really, really good yards per attempt. No, checked out. Now 23 was a little bit of a pullback. Another offensive coordinator. That one didn't work out. That was. Remember, they elevated a quarterback coach. I don't even know if that guy's still in the league. And Jalen Hurts now is winning from the pocket for three straight years, folks. If you don't have him five, how on earth could you have guys like Jared Goff ahead of him? Well, here's the idea. Because the idea of what a quarterback is has changed dramatically over the last 30 or 40 years. These executives, remember, these are the same executives who wanted Lamar Jackson to pivot from quarterback to wide receiver. Yeah, that's a thing. That was a real thing. Look it up. Okay. These executives had an idea of what a quarterback was for 30 or 40 years. I need me a six, three statuesque pocket passer. That's what they wanted. They wanted the Jeff Georges of the world. They wanted Drew Bledsoe, guys. Guys who were quarterbacks, who are fantastic. But somewhere along the line, youth football coaches realized, I don't have a big pocket passer. Let me just put my best athlete at quarterback. And he's going to run around and make plays. He can win from the pocket, but he can also win with his legs on third down. And that became then a thing from not just youth football to college football. And then it kind of sorted to translate into the pros with guys like Mike Vick and Cam Newton, who were essentially the first iteration of running quarterbacks. Steve Young was mobile. I wouldn't call him a runner. Great running quarterback, but more mobile. He won from the pocket first. So Vick and Cam Newton were kind of inconsistent from the pocket. But now the next generation of guys, Jaden Daniels, Jalen Hurts. These are quarterbacks. Listen, let's be real. Lamar Jackson, these are quarterbacks. Josh Allen, who was a runner, remember, he was like barely 60% completion from the pocket in college. He's now turned into. He could beat you with his legs and his arm. So the idea of a quarterback has totally changed, and I think a lot of these evaluators just don't get it. Yes, I love Matthew Stafford. He's awesome. If it's third and seven, he's not a threat to scramble for that first down. And just the looks of quarterbacks now is just changing things around the league. And wouldn't you know it, Jalen Hurts is right there at the forefront with Lamar Jackson. He just has the postseason success. So, again, I'm not, you know, totally disagreeing with these executive coaches and couches coaches and scouts, but the reality is they don't even have Brock Purdy on this list. He didn't make the top 10. So as you can expect, I'll do my top 10 later in the show. We're going to expand it because, remember, last week we were drinking six packs here on the show. Today, we're expanding it from a sixer to a 12 pack. So, yeah, a lot of these pocket guys still make it, but I lean toward the athlete who's going to get me the scramble on third and seven, who's multidimensional, by the way? Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, all multidimensional quarterbacks can beat you from the pocket and scrambling. All right. We do really have a phenomenal show lined up. I know you're excited about three hours of J. Mac. Colin Coward may call me during the show. He did text me right before the show with a. With a airport update. I won't bore you with that, but it's going to be a great one today. And coming up next here on the Herd, I'll tell you why the Mavs shut down Cooper flag after a 31 point explosion in game two. That's next year on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app hey, it's me, Rob Parker.
- [17:15]
Rob Parker
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the park for 22 minutes of piping hot baseball talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the eye test, we've got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
- [17:43]
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- [17:55]
Colin Cowherd
Your busy work for you so you.
- [17:57]
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- [18:41]
Colin Cowherd
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- [20:22]
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- [20:56]
Jason McIntyre
Welcome back. We got Jeff schwartz, Fox Sports NFL analyst coming up at about 10 minutes and yes, I did watch a little Caitlin Clark action from yesterday. I have a good nickname for her. It's not a slight. Okay. She's struggling. Listen, we could be honest with you, everybody. Okay? I, I have a nickname. Everybody in the morning meeting laughed. People thought it was a little harsh. We'll unveil that in about 25 minutes. I want to talk quickly about Cooper Flag. Okay? He had his debut in the summer league Thursday night. He was, as the kids like to say, he was mid. I think he was 5 for 21 shooting. A lot of questions. I don't know. No three point shot. The guys pump the brakes. I want a passion plea Friday. Please just take a deep breath. He's gonna be fine. Cooper Flag comes out in his second game Saturday and absolutely cooks. San Antonio had 31 points. Completely dominant. Oh, look, he gets clicked for the 18 year old in game two. Just a flurry of dunks. He. He's awesome. And I, I think Coward says this sometimes. You kind of know it when you see it after like five minutes. Whether it's sports tv, whatever. I last Week I started this new show on Apple TV called the Studio. I'm not sure if any of you guys are familiar with it. I, I like Seth Rogen. I'm a huge Seth Rogen guy. I think all of his movies and shows are hilarious. So I check it out and within the first 20 minutes I'm texting people, you've got to watch this show. It's a little industry related, but it is abrasive and dirty. A lot of like inappropriate jokes. But that's in my wheelhouse. Like, you know, if this show were ever streaming only, well, you would let the expletives fly. Shout out to Cosmo Kramer. But that show, like instantly I knew it was great. There's this show on Paramount, Lioness. I checked that out. Holy cow, it's awesome. Again, within 15 minutes you're texting your buddies. You got to see this show. If you don't have Paramount, get the free trial, blah, blah, blah. Cooper Flag is the same way. You could see it. Last year at Duke he was an 18 year old freshman. I mean, he's 17 at the very beginning of the season. He's 18 and he's just leading Duke in every category. Every category. Assist, steals, blocked, you name it. I mean, we've seen this before, guys. 1 Benyama last year struggled in his first summer league game. I think he was like 2 for 13. Oh, he can't shoot. He's not physical enough. Women Yama Game 2, dominant, shutting him down. We don't need to see anymore. Do you remember Zion Williamson? First game of summer league. I had to look this up. He only had 11 points, but he had four dunks. He's just dunking everything. Zion was overpowering everybody. Well, now I don't know. He doesn't really have a shot. He's a little chubby. Zion as a rookie averaged 22. If he could only stay healthy. We're looking at an all time great in Zion. He can't stay healthy. And then he got sidetracked with some stuff in New Orleans. Cooper Flag showing none of the signs of that. Okay, 31 points in game two against the Spurs. Just absolutely awesome. Here's what Cooper Flag said after his big game against San Antonio.
- [24:05]
Cooper Flagg
I think, you know, it's a, it's a new environment, new setting. You know, they want to see me be aggressive and do that type of stuff. So I was trying my best to just be aggressive and assert myself early, get to the line. I think I did that a lot better today. I'm just getting to the Line getting fouled. And that helped me to get comfortable and get so, you know, I got to the line a little bit better today. Still missed a bunch of free throws. You know, I know my mom probably wasn't very happy with that.
- [24:29]
Jason McIntyre
Cooper Flag shout out to his mom. Now, listen, Cowherd likes to say that Cooper Flag could be a more aggressive Jason Tatum. And I didn't love that initially because I think he's a much better defender than Tatum. But that watching Cooper Flag cook, it was not a bad comparison. The Jason, the aggressive Jason Tatum. I'll stick with my Kevin Garnett for now. Cooper Flag is more advanced than KG offensively was at 18. That's undeniable. You can't argue with that. Obviously, KG won an MVP and a championship. I think Cooper Flag can do both. I will say now I'm out here in la. I know this guy's royalty in Los Angeles. I was a huge fan watching him. But there's a guy named Baron Davis, awesome point guard, legendary player out here, just spectacular at ucla. He's one of the first to push this. Well, you know, Cooper Flagg kind of reminds me of Andrei Kirilenko. I was a little embarrassed for Baron when he said that. The idea is Andrei Kirilenko did everything great. He was spectacular at nothing, but he was awesome. I don't believe he ever made an All Star Game. Baron, you got to take that. Take back, like, just apologize. You screwed up. Andre Kirilenko is not getting shut down two games in the summer league because he went off for 31. Okay. And all I kept hearing about this spurs guy, I'm spacing on his name at Arizona, who they drafted, who's a really good defender. And he did well against Cooper Flag on like, an early possession. And everybody posted on their Instagram. Look at this guy shutting down Cooper Flag. You know, Cooper Flag ended up going, going postal against this guy and everyone else. So I'm sorry. Boom. Dizzle. But the Andre Kirilenko comp is terrible. Cooper Flag is going to be a superstar in the NBA. This is going to happen probably sooner than later. Get with the program, everyone. All right, let's go to Jeff Schwartz, NFL analyst here at Fox. He has a podcast. He's wearing a nice dud Duke blue shirt. Did you hit. Did you play 18 this morning, Jeff?
- [26:40]
Jeff Schwartz
I. I did not. I was doing something else. I had to wear a nice polo shirt I just wore for you as well. I was hoping to get some. Some summer league wagers from you today, but I. I guess do that another time.
- [26:50]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, I'm. I'm holding off on these summer league gambling. I know. I see you on social. Are you doing WNBA betting?
- [26:57]
Jeff Schwartz
Yeah, mostly props.
- [27:00]
Jason McIntyre
Okay.
- [27:01]
Jeff Schwartz
I mean, look, Caitlin Clark assists every game. I mean, she gets a lot of assists. She might not be shooting very well right now, but she's passing the. Her teammates and sometimes they don't make the layups. Jason. But they. She gets a lot of assists. So I will rock. I just. I mostly do zigzag stuff. Right. Where a good player has a bad game, the next game, they typically play better. It's not rocket science. I tend to make those type of wagers.
- [27:23]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, it is weird just to go. We'll talk. I'll talk about Clark a little more later, but I'm curious your thoughts. So she struggled before the injury. She comes back from the injury. She's still kind of struggling. But the Fever are winning now. Aside from gambling, I think the Fever are still going to be live in the playoffs with a healthy Clark to maybe. Maybe contend for the championship. I know their record doesn't show it, but you've watched a lot of wnba. I mean, do you think they're contenders with Clark?
- [27:49]
Jeff Schwartz
I think they have to be because their offense is sort of figuring out. Right. It takes some time. They have a lot of new pieces. Right. Howard's new right, Cunningham's new. Clark's been in out of the lineup, but they're trying to figure things out. Ari McDonald's been in the lineup. Now we're trying to figure things out. As Clark gets healthier, I'd imagine they start playing better offensively. She will start playing better offensively as well, but she obviously does a lot for the game. Assists, she had five steals. That's how she opens things up when they are on. They score a ton of points defensively. There's still some question marks. I feel like they did big the links already without her. They beat the Liberty with Caitlin Clark. They played Liberty, I think, again this weekend. So they're alive. Remember last year, the second half of the season after the Olympic break, they were much better. I feel like they're starting to hit their stride a little bit now as we get to the break. I would expect them to play well in the postseason.
- [28:32]
Jason McIntyre
Wow. I gotta give you a shout out. Jeff Clark is dropping Indiana Fever bench players and he's talking about the upcoming schedule. My man. Impressive. All right, now let's go to the NFL. I do want to ask you about college later or something, but I don't know. Listen, It's. It's mid July. People are putting out lists. I see this list of the top 10 quarterbacks in the league from executive scouts and coaches. Jeff the Jalen Hurts disrespect the MVP of the Super Bowl. Checking in ninth below. Jared Goff. Justin Herbert. I love Justin Herbert. He doesn't have a playoff win yet. Matt Stafford is kind of cement shoes in the pocket. Shout out Stafford. Jaden Daniels, one year. Why do. Why do you think people are just out on her? Two, by the way, is the only second round pick of these top nine.
- [29:21]
Jeff Schwartz
I'm not sure they're out on him. I think they don't look at one game as a reason why to rank a player in a certain spot.
- [29:27]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [29:28]
Jeff Schwartz
I mean, this is the best quarterback for an entire season or really where they are in their careers. To me, one through six is not really debatable with them. And hurts. I mean, look, Jay Daniels had one good season. We get that. But go watch him play as a passer of the football. He's a better passer of football than Jalen Hurts. There's no question about that. Now, of course, he didn't do it in a Super bowl like Hertz has, which did happen. He played great. Epic, actually, in both Super Bowls. Hertz has played really well and that should count for something. I do think that does count for Justin Herbert, who has not played well in the postseason. Hertz has been better than him. I would put, you know, probably hurts at 7J. Stafford's still really good. Like, I think we forget that because he doesn't move as well as other quarterbacks do. And he plays in LA and pro football is not as important there. But they were very close to winning that game in the snow in Philly. A couple turnovers doomed them there. I think Hertz is properly ranked. I think if you were drafting quarterbacks, this is about where you draft them. You would have hurts, I think ahead of Stafford because of age there. But to me, one game, right? One, two more. He played great in that game. Not taking any away from him doesn't really change, I think where he needs to be ranked according to the top six. Now, again, you should be ahead of golf. That seems really silly to me. And Herbert. I love Justin Herbert, but he has not shown the ability in those bigger games in the postseason to play as well as hurts. I think to me, one through six is where they should be. You might argue. Okay, should Lamar be three should burrow before. Sure. One and two feel very solid of where they are. So I'm not. I have no problem with one through six. I think seven should be hurts.
- [30:57]
Jason McIntyre
Okay, so that's a good talking point for NFL fans because when you say like there's no debate like Jaden Daniels is a better thrower of the football. I think that was the phrase you used and that's a phrase in a lot of these articles. How do you quantify that? Because I mean if you're just looking at how the ball comes off their hand, you know, over 500 attempts, like I guess you could break it down that way. Do you do yards per attempt which is, you know, saying that someone's a check down or going deep down the field. Is it completion percentage that could be skewed toward what the offense is doing? Quarterback rating? Like how do you judge thrower of the football?
- [31:31]
Jeff Schwartz
Yeah, I judge the really tough throws. I think a lot of guys can make the easy throw, right? It's the tough throws, right? The throws on the move, those on third down throws, the pressure in your face throws in big moments. I mean go look at the throws Daniel made throughout the season and you'll see I think in more opportunities the offense was put on his shoulders and he made those throws. Now it hurts offense to hurts defense. Jay now he doesn't do as much, right, because they run the football so well. They close out games with the offensive line in the run game and often with his legs. But I think Daniels throws the ball better than hurts in bigger moments in sort of the third down situation, sort of these big tough throws. To me it's Daniels ahead of him, which to me is still number one in quarterback play. I look mobility is great, being able to run the football, it's great. It's good for third down in the red zone, those scrambling moments. But to me, the way I rate quarterbacks is what you do in the pocket first. That's the hardest part of the job, right? It's third and eight. How do you react in the pocket? Can you make those big time throws? I think Daniels has a little bit more of that than Hertz does.
- [32:33]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. There's a lot. That's one of the things with quarterbacks. There's a lot like we got to look up tight window throws and who's third down completion. But there's so much that goes into it. But let me drill down on Stafford for a second. You know the modern quarterback, if you look at your everybody's top four is burrow who can scramble, run. Awesome. Patrick Mahomes running despite the dad bod. Lamar needs no introduction. Josh Allen's running over defensive backs. Stafford doesn't add that element. But he was a number one overall pick. He has one of like the top five arms in the league. He's making no look throws in the Super Bowl. Like, how are we supposed to compare Stafford to Hertz? Because if I said, Jeff, this season, who would you rather have, Stafford or Hertz, Wouldn't you take Hertz? Because he gives you such a next dimension with the running.
- [33:22]
Jeff Schwartz
If it was like, if it was a fourth quarter to win, to win a game. And of course, look, let's just say it's a, it's a normal offense. You don't get the Eagles offensive line, you'll get the run game. Just like an average NFL offense, right? Fourth quarter of a game, do you want Stafford, you want her throwing the football? Who would you want throwing the football for the full.
- [33:40]
Jason McIntyre
It's similar to the Jordan LeBron discussion. Like, I would take LeBron for a full game for the full season, but for the fourth quarter, yeah, Stafford's clutch. Michael Jordan's clutch.
- [33:49]
Jeff Schwartz
And I think that matters when it comes to some of these GMs, right? Like again, most of these quarterbacks, right, 1 through 7, 1 through 10 even, can do the simple things. Well, they wouldn't be a top 10 quarterback if they couldn't make the simple throws. So to me, I elevate in certain situations, right? How do you. How would you do in this situation? How do you do in this situation? I think Matt Stafford, if I ask him again for the situation, I put. And that's again where I think you're judging these quarterbacks in very, very like nuanced situations. To me, I'd have Stafford just ahead of Hertz. I think it's not that much ahead of Hertz. Like, I think this season through week eight, I. Hertz might be better than Stafford. I'll move him up there. But for me right now, the situation still matters. I think Stafford is better in that spot. Again, it's not a big difference between 1 and 6. To me, Hertz can surely be in that conversation, but to me, he's just seven one guy.
- [34:38]
Jason McIntyre
Well, a couple guys down on the list. Number one, Dak Prescott, the highest paid quarterback in the NFL, who I believe two years ago was the runner up for MVP, is now not even top 10. And I think they did like a. Just missed. And it was C.J. stroud and Jordan Love. No Dak Prescott in the top 12. I'm curious your thoughts on Dak, because again, two years ago he was runner up to MVP.
- [35:03]
Jeff Schwartz
Well, he didn't play much last year. Right. I mean that, that plays a role in it. When you don't play as much, you're not in that discussion. I look, I think too like at best, what is Dak Prescott? 10 on a list, nine on a list. And so you don't play, you're going to drop down now can you make that back up this season? Absolutely. With more play time. But again, you look at sort of things I look at in those moments. He didn't play last year, so you can't give him credit for those things. So I think he's about where he should be. But again, I think at best he's about 10 in the NFL. So him not playing this season, last season, not, not many. I think only games last season. It's about where he can be. Can he, can he get back up in the top 10? Absolutely. Look, you can certainly see a list like this where Goff pulls back in a given year. Baker Mayfield I think is what he is right now. But he could pull back a little bit and then just that kind of pop. I think Dak is no better than about 9 to 10 in the best season he can have in the NFL.
- [35:55]
Jason McIntyre
Hmm, interesting. So again, I like this guy more than the market does. But Brock Purdy, he had, he didn't have a great year, but the whole team was banged up. It felt like a transition year. Again, I'm not judging a guy on one year, which is why I have a problem with Daniels at five. But if you take Purdy's career, he's been frickin good. How does he not crack the top 10 now again, salary does not factor in here. We're not saying Dak makes, you know, 60 mil. What's his value compared to Daniels, that's obvious. But salary removed, just quarterback play. Are you a pretty believer or no?
- [36:30]
Jeff Schwartz
I, I do think that draft slot bias matters here. Right. Because he's a seventh round pick. I was on a throw pick, so maybe I'm defending him a little bit here. Are you telling me that like Brock Purdy couldn't be Jared Goff with the Lions offense? He totally can. Right. But he gets the benefit of playing with a great offensive line in golf does and all the weapons. Last year everyone was hurt for the Niners. The offensive line was hurt, was beat up. The offensive line is not as good as Detroit is and he still did the best he could given the situation. And so I think he probably in a given year, with everyone back Healthy is going to be better than where he's ranked right now. Do I think he has the elite traits of the top six guys or seven guys? No. So he's probably never going to be that high. Jim, I think traits matter, right? The eye test matters in these rankings. But put it all together, to me, you could have the same season golf has in Detroit if you just insert Brock Purdy into that lineup.
- [37:22]
Jason McIntyre
Totally agree. Let me ask about Baker Mayfield, who's an interesting quarterback because he flopped badly in his first few years, right? But he was number one overall pick. Everybody loved him. And then he fell out of favor. And now a couple good years in Tampa. And Baker Mayfield, number 10 on the list. Now, it's a weird thing. It seems like these top picks, they get multiple bites at the apple if you're Brock Purdy and you have one year bye, Dak Prescott, one bad year bye. But Baker Mayfield, hey, man, he was a number one pick. He's got the traits, as you said, and he checks in at 10 on the list. Your thoughts?
- [37:57]
Jeff Schwartz
Yeah, look, I think we love the Baker story and he played well last year, though. J back, he completed nearly 70 a pass at 4,500 yards last season. Like a legitimately great season, passing the football and that, you know, he has weapons around him. Obviously, the offensive line there is good, but little injury right now with worse, and he's just played well. He's a good example of two things, as you mentioned, right? One is that draft slot bias I mentioned already. If you're the first pick overall, you get more chances than anyone else. And he's had those chances. Now, when he's had the chances, though, he's cashed in, right? That Rams Thursday football game, he cashed in, right? He cashed in. In this situation, get an opportunity in, in, in, in Tampa. That's certainly all part of it. But he's played well in the situation. Situation matters, right? It matters. Does the offense fit you? Do you have an offensive line? Do you have wide receivers? And then do you take advantage of the situation? So I get Baker credit for battling through part of his career. That wasn't great. And I've been a skeptic of him at times as well. I think he realized that. But my, my, my thing about him is, look, the NFL does a great job of humbling you, right? It's a great league for that. I think he got a little bit too big. He was doing those commercials when it wasn't time to do commercials yet. He was feeling himself a little bit too Much. And the NFL humbled him. He humbled himself. And he's talked about that as maturing as a player, as a person. And he's sort of hitting his stride now. And so I'm happy for Baker. This is about right. I think the max you get from Baker Mayfield is about 10. And again, in a given year, maybe it's Love 10 or Dak 10 somewhere around there. But I think GMs appreciate how well he's played, given the situation he's in now and his toughness. I think you see him truck guys for first downs and whatnot. People remember those type of plays.
- [39:33]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Listen, Baker's been tremendous the last two years. Let me ask. We hear a lot about Will Jalen. Hurts has a stacked deck, and Jared Goff had Ben Johnson. Let's not forget Baker Mayfield has had arguably the best wide receiver duo in the league for the last two years, Evans and Godwin. Evans is a Hall of Fame lock, and Godwin is elite. I mean, I don't know if they're the best wide receiver duo. They're not better than Higgins and Chase, but they're certainly top four at worst. It's like, hey, you know, I don't even remember who the quarterback was before Baker, but I'm fairly certain they got to the playoffs, you know, with that. With that duo at wide receiver. Like, is he getting more of. More of a leash, say, than Kyler Murray?
- [40:14]
Jeff Schwartz
Well, look, absolutely. And I think you do have to wait how you judge a quarterback based on what they have around him. But again, the production is there, right? Mean 4,500 yards is 4,500 yards, whether you have great guys or not great guys. I mean, it's there. Like. So to me, the standard is this, right? Like, you have a good roster. Do you play good? And the answer is yes, right? He's played good to get a roster. If you have a good roster, play poorly. That's a knock on you. Now, there's, of course, there's guys that have poor rosters to elevate those rosters around them. So to me, Baker's doing what he has to do, right? He's playing well with the pieces around him that are good. If he didn't J. Mac, I have. It'd be a problem. Correct. So I think that's a point. I think, too, Baker feels like a player. Maybe feel is not the right word to use here. That does elevate people around him, Right. Where he's not just along for the ride. He makes plays that make everyone better. And then that's a part of the evaluation here. Right. Do you make everyone better around you? I think Baker's one of those guys that when I watch him play, everyone around him is better because of the play that he's providing them.
- [41:12]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. All right, Great stuff, Jeff. Shorts. Let me quickly get one more short one in. We got a minute. But college football, a lot of talk about this salary cap. As a guy who just missed the nil era, Jeff, let me just quickly add, is this kind of silly, this union talk? And it's just, it's been an interesting summer, to say the least.
- [41:32]
Jeff Schwartz
A union will never happen. As someone who's part of an nflpa, it's never too many players to make a college union. To me, I would just let them make whatever they need to make. Like it's, it's fair market, free market. Just these guys are making money. Let it make money. It has even out the playing field over all the sports. Look at the parity we have in a given year all over the sports now because teams are able to pay guys and keep guys as well and transfer portal whatnot. So to me, it's fine the way it is. It needs some refining. Absolutely. It needs some, some maybe some more rules and, and some more eyeballs to it. Yes. But cybercamp is never happening. It's, it's just, it's just too many moving parts. It will never happen. Jason.
- [42:10]
Jason McIntyre
All right, good stuff. Jeff Schwartz. I'm in full agreement, obviously. Catch him on the Bear Bets podcast. Fox Sports NFL analyst. Have a great summer, Jeff.
- [42:19]
Jeff Schwartz
Thank you, but take care.
- [42:20]
Jason McIntyre
All right, coming up next. Listen, I teased the Caitlin Clark nickname. Some people are going to laugh. Some Clark fans are going to be outraged. But we'll talk about that next here on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.
- [42:35]
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Colin Cowherd
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- [44:18]
Jason McIntyre
Tomorrow it's the Midsummer Classic as Judge Shohei and baseball's biggest stars head to Atlanta for the MLB All Star Game. Coverage begins at 7 Eastern, 4 Pacific, only on Fox. All right. We'll wrap up the hour with a little basketball basketball talk. What's Caitlin Clark on Sunday? She's on the struggle bus. And just because I like total, complete authenticity, right. Let me get into Caitlin Clark with, with this. So you guys know I love to play basketball. I joined some leagues out here in la. Well, I just tried to level up to the toughest league I've ever played in. It's called the Mecca League out here. All former pros. I'm an end of the bench guy, but a GM who's helping recruit. We got a former NBA player on our team and I'm not playing a lot. I don't want to, I can't hang with these guys. I get on the court, they call out, oh, there's barbecue chicken. I'm going to roast this guy. And I get in yesterday, wide open, three from the corner. That's my money shot. I hit the side of the backboard. Guys, not gonna lie, it was tough. And I thought about Caitlin Clark during that moment. Not really, but after the game. And Caitlin Clark is on the struggle bus right now around the league. They're calling her Caitlin Clank because she cannot make any shots. Are you ready for this? Her last six games, three before the injury, she was 1 for 23 on threes. Next three games, 5 for 19. So in her last six games, Caitlin Clark, who they're calling Caitlin clank, is shooting 14 from deep. But here's the real story. They're winning despite Clark struggling. That is A huge indicator of success on the way. Kayla Clark is too good to continue to struggle, guys. She makes her teammates better. She's an excellent defensive player. Had five steals yesterday, 13 assists. This is what the great ones do. The shot's not falling. You find other ways to contribute. Caitlin Clark rigging up the assists. She's got them playing at a pace. And I know you guys aren't into wnba, that's fine. They don't play like a WNBA team, which a lot of the league is still methodical playing like 90s NBA. Let's dump it down to our big see if we can manipulate the defense and see if we can get something cooking. They don't play like that. This is Caitlin Clark whipping 80 foot passes to streaking teammates for layups. And that that pace is why they're going to be great. And I'm telling you, they are a contender. You can look at their record and scoff. I like to look ahead. Cal Herd says one of my strengths is the ability to see around corners. I'm just telling you right now, the Indiana Fever are going to be a major problem because Clark's shots are eventually going to fall and you'll stop calling her Caitlin Clank when the threes start falling because she's too good of a player to continue to fail. So I'm a buyer in all Indiana Fever stock. Caitlin Clark, she's going to get back in the MVP discussion. All right, coming up in the next hour, my eight division winners from the NFL this season. Two surprises coming up. This is an I Heart podcast.