Hour 1 - The face of the league

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 1: "The Face of the League"

Release Date: May 27, 2025

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1. NBA Playoffs Spotlight: Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Minnesota Timberwolves

Timestamp: [04:17]

The episode kicks off with an in-depth analysis of a pivotal NBA playoff game between the Oklahoma City Thunder (OKC) and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Host Colin Cowherd delves into the contrasting leadership styles and performances of the league's emerging stars: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) for OKC and Anthony Edwards (Ant) for Minnesota.

Colin highlights SGA's consistency and refined gameplay compared to Ant's flashier yet more volatile performance. He asserts, “[SGA] is a machine. He doesn't fall out of his game regardless of what you throw at him. He makes great decisions” ([05:30]). The discussion emphasizes SGA’s pivotal role in OKC’s strong playoff run, noting that the team holds an impressive 13-1 record when SGA scores 40+ points ([06:10]).

Jason McIntyre questions whether Oklahoma City is positioning to start a dynasty, to which Colin responds by comparing the age and maturity of the two stars: “Ant is 23 and SGA is 26. Ant isn't as refined. SGA is more focused, more refined, more consistent” ([07:45]).

2. NFL Quarterback Insights: Shadordon Sanders and Parental Influence

Timestamp: [09:42]

The conversation transitions to the NFL, focusing on Shadordon Sanders (Shad Sanders) as the future starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. Colin criticizes the overbearing influence of Sanders' father, drawing parallels to historical quarterback families like the Mannings.

“I have said this is the hill. I'm going to die on that. Shador Sanders over the next 10 months will be the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns” ([08:15]). Colin argues that excessive parental involvement can hinder a young quarterback’s development, contrasting Sanders’ situation with legends like John Elway, who navigated his career without public familial interference.

Jason probes deeper, questioning whether Sanders has any leverage if he doesn't heed his father's advice. Colin firmly responds, “Bad NFL owners see that GMC clips of that and they're like, no, thanks” ([10:00]). The discussion underscores the importance of autonomy and maturity in young quarterbacks, highlighting how the current culture contrasts with past generations.

3. Knicks vs. Pacers Playoff Battle: Coaching Tactics and Player Performance

Timestamp: [22:28]

The episode shifts focus to a crucial NBA playoff matchup between the New York Knicks and the Indiana Pacers. Colin and Jason analyze the strategic decisions made by Knicks' coach Rick Carlisle, especially his late-game adjustments.

Rick Carlisle’s strategy to maintain defensive intensity by deploying the Knicks' better defenders in the second half is examined. Colin states, “They had a lot of their better defenders in the game in the second half, and that makes it harder” ([23:00]). This tactic is seen as a direct challenge to Pacers’ coach Tom Thibodeau, who is known for his defensive rigor.

Jason reflects on Jalen Brunson’s inconsistencies, especially when benched due to foul trouble, and questions whether this affects the Knicks’ championship aspirations. Colin emphasizes the necessity for the Knicks to find complementary pieces to Brunson’s game, stating, “You have to figure out guys that play” ([24:30]).

4. MLB Highlight: Shohei Ohtani’s Stellar Season

Timestamp: [28:14]

Switching gears to Major League Baseball, Colin celebrates Shohei Ohtani’s remarkable performance against the New York Mets. With 19 home runs leading the league and projections of 55 homers and 35 steals this season, Ohtani is portrayed as a transcendent superstar.

“Ohtani is on pace for 55 homers and 35 steals. Last year, he had 54 homers and 59 steals” ([28:35]). Colin compares Ohtani’s dual-threat capabilities to that of legendary figures like LeBron James, emphasizing his value over contemporary stars: “Ohtani is more valuable than this guy LeBron” ([28:38]).

The discussion touches on Ohtani’s increasing popularity, especially among Dodgers fans, drawing parallels to the Caitlin Clark effect in college sports, where star players drive merchandise sales and fan engagement.

5. NFL Roundup: Dallas Cowboys’ Offensive Synergy

Timestamp: [29:50]

Colin and Jason pivot back to the NFL, focusing on the Dallas Cowboys’ offensive improvements with the addition of CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens. They discuss how these two players complement each other, enhancing the Cowboys' offensive dynamics.

Colin praises Lamb’s ability to execute precise routes and his role as a deep threat: “He’s a tall figure. His ability to go up and get the ball at the highest point is amazing” ([29:50]). Jason remains optimistic about the Cowboys’ prospects, noting a favorable early-season schedule and the potential for offensive breakthroughs.

Despite lingering questions about the Cowboys’ defense and offensive line, the hosts agree that the team is poised for a strong performance, potentially challenging expectations set by previous seasons.

6. Aaron Rodgers’ Future: Retirement and Team Transition Speculations

Timestamp: [43:57]

A significant portion of the conversation centers on legendary quarterback Aaron Rodgers, who recently hinted at the possibility of retirement and a potential move to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Colin references a discussion with Matt Hasselbeck, noting Rodgers’ statement about not wanting to play for the Saints or live in Indianapolis: “He said recently, I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't want to live in Indianapolis” ([43:57]).

The hosts debate Rodgers’ legacy, comparing him to other great quarterbacks like Dan Marino and Eli Manning. Colin expresses skepticism about Rodgers’ Hall of Fame standing if not for his MVPs and consistent performance, despite limited Super Bowl appearances: “If you're going to count them up against Brady and Montana and Elway and Mahomes and you're going to get ding for getting to one Super Bowl” ([51:26]).

Jason challenges Colin’s harsh assessment by highlighting Rodgers’ multiple MVPs and productive seasons, questioning the weight given to Super Bowl victories versus regular-season achievements. The dialogue underscores the complexity of evaluating quarterback greatness, balancing statistical prowess with championship success.

7. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Topics

Timestamp: [53:07]

As the hour concludes, Colin emphasizes his ranking of quarterbacks, placing John Elway above Aaron Rodgers due to Elway’s leadership and Super Bowl victories: “Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely” ([53:07]). The episode wraps up with anticipation for future discussions, including potential retirements and ongoing playoff narratives.

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Notable Quotes:

• On SGA’s Consistency: “He doesn’t fall out of his game regardless of what you throw at him. He makes great decisions” ([05:30]).

• On Parental Influence in the NFL: “Bad NFL owners see that GMC clips of that and they're like, no, thanks” ([10:00]).

• On Rick Carlisle’s Strategy: “They had a lot of their better defenders in the game in the second half, and that makes it harder” ([23:00]).

• On Ohtani’s Value: “Ohtani is more valuable than this guy LeBron” ([28:38]).

• On Aaron Rodgers’ Legacy: “If you're going to count them up against Brady and Montana and Elway and Mahomes and you're going to get ding for getting to one Super Bowl” ([51:26]).

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Conclusion

Hour 1 of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" provides a comprehensive exploration of key sports narratives spanning the NBA playoffs, NFL quarterback dynamics, MLB star performances, and in-depth discussions on iconic players like Aaron Rodgers. The hosts offer nuanced perspectives, blending statistical analysis with personal insights, making the episode engaging for both avid sports fans and casual listeners seeking a thorough understanding of current sports landscapes.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Is this going to be a coronation? Is that what we're doing? We're just, hey, OKC is the best. They're going to start a dynasty. SGA for President. Is this what we're doing today?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, let's, let's get down to what is the difference in the they're both led by a significant talented guard. The two best players in the series are SGA for OKC and Ant for Minnesota. Ant has more flash, he's more athletically dynamic, he's more vertical. We kind of want him to be mvp. SGA is the MVP and you get the same game every night. That's why Oklahoma City in these late game clutch time stretches is very, very good. SGA scored less than 20 points one time in the regular season, ant 15 times and they're both the centerpiece of the offense. And part of it is Ant is 23 and SGA is 26. Ant isn't as refined. SGA is More focused, more refined, more consistent. You know what you get. He doesn't fall out of his game regardless of what you throw at him. He makes great decisions. He's older. The foot's on the accelerator. SGA averaged 33 a game. Why? Because he mostly scored 33 a game. Ant averaged 28 a game. 39 one night, 22 the next night. That's what his game is. It takes a while. I mean, Tom Cruise is obsessed with moviemaking. Later in life, last six films, five films, Tom Cruise is realized. I'm an action star. No more Rock of Ages, no more Eyes Wide Shut, no more Vanilla Sky. I do action movies. The more I run, the more people go watch. And that's what he is, and that is great. Older athletes could be a quarterback, could be a point guard. They're more consistent. You don't get the highs and the lows. Sga, I mean, Ant still has volatility to his game. SGA is oatmeal for breakfast, he's a BLT for lunch. And those puppies last forever. All this criticism of SGA is laughable. The guy can hit threes, great ball handler, uses his length brilliantly, can hit mid range. There was a play, I think it was in the second quarter, where he bodied a guy a foot taller, Rudy Gobert, and use the left hand, his off hand, to score off the glass. It was an incredible move, but he wasn't dunking over anybody. He was using his body and using his length. And that's what he does. And it's not SGA's job to entertain us. That's not his job. This whole free throw Merchant, he averages 8.8 free throws a game as an MVP. I went and looked this morning at LeBron's MVP seasons. You know what? He averaged 8 free throws a game. Be honest, this is about SGA's game isn't fun. And the media and the fans, they prefer a Westbrook or a Derrick Rose or a Stevie Francis or a Marbury or a John Waller and Iverson. Those are fun and they're dynamic. So is Ant. SGA's not. He's just consistently great. The tool belt is completely full. I see a pro. It's like the quarterback who stepped to the line and is great at pre snap. He's done his homework. This guy has a left hand, a right hand range, ball handling, consistency, machine. And talk about a guy that uses his length. Yesterday, SGA passed Michael Jordan for the most 30 point games in a season in which you were the mvp. And his scoring Isn't just about him. The Thunder are now 13 and 1 this season when he scores 40 plus points. That wasn't the case with Kobe. Sometimes with Kobe, the more he scored, the less everybody else touched it and was involved. His scoring connects with winning. In the whole free throw merchant thing, you just don't like what it looks like. I understand it's not flashy, it's not cool. But it wins and it's consistent. And here's SGA after I try not to worry too much about scoring or making plays or whatever it was. I tried to just like lose myself in the competition, be aggressive, pick my spots. And he does pick his spots. Series is now over. It's three to one, but it's over. Okay, so I thought this was interesting. I have said this is the hill. I'm going to die on that. Shador Sanders over the course of the next 10 months will be the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. I thought he was underdrafted. I don't think he's John Elway. I don't think he's Peyton Manning or even Eli. But I think he's the best quarterback they have and it'll just take him time. And I think he's a good kid, by and large. Good kid. But he said something yesterday to cleveland.com he said 99% of the online scrutiny is because of my dad. And he is exactly right. That's why it was really a mistake when dad went on shows and said things like this.

[Jason McIntyre]

Have you told him privately who you would like for him to play for?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's not like that. Like, it's not like who I would like for him to play for. It's a couple teams that I won't allow him to play for. So it's not like that. But this is my profession.

[Jason McIntyre]

I know what's behind the curtain.

[Colin Cowherd]

We ain't got to get back there. For me to understand what's behind the curtain is what's not prominent for my son. I'm not doing it.

[Jason McIntyre]

And if he doesn't listen to you, who?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, bad NFL owners see that GMC clips of that and they're like, no, thanks. Well, what about John Elway? His dad wasn't on TV telling teams, don't draft my son. Okay? And John Elway is the greatest quarterback prospect out of college ever. To this day, ever. The more talent, the more leverage in every walk of life. Watching the NFL draft this year on both ESPN and the NFL Network was maddening. I can understand why he's dropping what in the World is happening. Dad is happening. That's why I like the tact that Arch Manning and his family's doing. They're staying in the shadows. That's where all the real power is in life. Get out in the sun and get burned. Dion was in the sun. Dion spent too much time on television. Talking doesn't mean Dion's a bad guy. He's a great recruiter. He's done wonderful things for Colorado. He's an all time great player. But I have said this over and over and I will repeat it. Dads stop talking. Nobody cares. Quarterback dad has become pageant mom. Your heart is in the right place. You have good intent. You are hurting your sons. Nico Iamaliava, remember that Tennessee, he cost his son millions of dollars and now he's at a second tier college football program instead of the Tennessee Volunteer. So it's. This is a cautionary tale. The NFL controls television networks. It's the only sport that tells the networks what they will pay for the rights and then has the right mid contract to step in and change it. Yeah, they're not going to have dads tell them where their son's going to play. And so this is not. I understand the devotion, the love and the 15 years you put into your son. Pageant mom, quarterback dad. But he's got it right. Shadour's got it right. It's dad, it's Pops. He got in the way. And I also understand the heart and affection and the loyalty of the dads. Like I get it. I've said this before to people I think I am. I can be really objective about everything in the world except my kids. I can be objective, I think mostly about my wife, about my life, about my career, about not my kids. It's just different. And I understand it's tough, but I like that Shadour knows it's kind of pops and we'll see it more and more and more and more. And I know, I hear what about Eli Manning? A. Eli Manning was a better prospect. Also his brother was in the league as an MVP at the same position. And oh yeah, his dad had been brilliantly talented, albeit in a horrible franchise quarterback. The Mannings are royal family in America, certainly at the quarterback position. And I don't remember Arch Manning going on tv. They did a lot of their stuff behind the scenes, which I'm always okay with. I've just said stay out of the sun, you're gonna get a sunburn. Put on the SPF 50. Do your maneuvering behind the scenes where people can claim you said things, but you have culpability. But when you go on television and exclaim not doing that, we're not going there yet, you are talking directly to the people, the companies, the corporations, the owners and GMs who are going to draft you. And I think it just did not play well at all. All right, so J. Mac, we got a lot of things going on. Ant did not play, mostly was invisible. Also, you know, we did something yesterday at the end of the show. I talked to the staff after the show and I said I want to, I want to work on something tomorrow. Aaron Rodgers on our show yesterday had a really interesting moment where he was outside talking to a bunch of people. And I think sometimes you have to be careful about those sound bites because sometimes it's performative. If you're like outside, you and I are doing an outside show, you start playing to the crowd and you say things that you probably that are embellished or you're kind of performing for the crowd. But Aaron Rodgers did say something recently to a group of people that's on tape that hinted to me that the retirement thing is a greater than 5050 chance. And we played that bite yesterday and I want to get to that and other things when we come back. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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Nick Wright 45 minutes from now so Anthony Edwards had one shot in the first quarter, 13 total shots to the game and he said after, you know, I didn't really get enough shots to judge my game. Listen, Jaden McDaniels of the T Wolves had more shots than Ant. That can't happen. You can't be the face of the league and get one shot in the first quarter of the biggest game of the playoffs. Can't do it. Not interested in excuses. Michael may have been getting tackled by the Pistons. He didn't have one shot quartered even when he had good teammates. So the because basketball players enter The NBA at 18, 19, 20 years old, you just have to wait. There are stages of maturity and I think personally and professionally Ant, I'm kind of waiting for him to graduate to the adult, consistent stage. He was mostly a non factor last night so you can take him out of his game. Everybody knows it. Throw a bunch of bodies at him and make him make kind of advanced reads and he's going to struggle. It's a lot like a young star quarterback who's not great at pre snap stuff. Like it takes Brady six, seven, eight years. Mahomes admit the light didn't go on until year three so you can just throw a bunch of stuff. At SGA. He's 26 and he sees it and he can read it. You can throw anything now at Mahomes four years ago he was a little confused, right? Four years ago he had to ad lib instead of getting pre snap blitzes out of the way. And so I think sometimes Ant relies too much on these sensational plays and his athleticism and he's great, but he's not consistently half to half great. And I, you know, I'm looking at some of the numbers this morning. The other thing that really hurts is that Oklahoma City's defense is not only great, it's historically great. It's deep, it's young, it's twitchy, it's almost collegiate in its energy and they throw a bunch of bodies at him and so. But let's defend Ant here. Jokic at 23. That's what ant is. Ants 23. Jokic at 23 got his first MVP. Ant at 23 played for a losing team in Oklahoma City. So Michael Jordan in the 80s, before his game was more than just raw scoring. Michael Jordan was having some really bad halves and quarters against the Pistons. Like it happens. It's just in the NFL, a guy comes in with three, four or five years experience, he's got a more refined game. Ants isn't. And so he talked about his night. Only 13 shots after. I don't really look at it like I struggled. I didn't get enough shots to say I struggled. So that's my. That might be how you guys look at it, but, yeah, I didn't struggle at all. It just. I made the right play, I guess. I urge that I want to get the ball in the rim, put it up there, but you don't want to take bad shots and get your team out of rhythm. So just playing the game the right way. Yeah, I mean, and LeBron said that I'm playing the game the right way. But LeBron would end up with 34 points and 13 assists and occasionally pass up big shots because he was playing the game the right way. Ant's not the distributor of LeBron, and LeBron wasn't settling for 13 shots. You may not have trusted LeBron in his prime at the free throw line or even when he was young, but you trusted the productivity. Ant's not there. He is a highly athletic, lot of fun, super dynamic, unlimited ceiling. But at this point, we're all kind of waiting, and it will come and it will come soon. But he's not quite there yet. He's 23, SGA is 26. And you can see the difference in consistency. J Mac with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, Colin, let's bust right into it. Knicks Pacers, big one tonight, game four. And you saw Rick Carlisle starting to play. Plant some seeds, maybe some playing some mind games with Tom Thibodeau. Interesting down the stretch. In game three, Colin Jalen Brunson was benched due to foul trouble. The Knicks had to play Jalon Wright, Landry Shammat, two guys who only play in blowouts. Listen to what Rick Carlisle said about the Knicks down the stretch in the press conference.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, they had a lot of their better defenders in the game in the second half, and that makes it harder. And so you've got to grind defensively to get rebounds. And there's a different element of grinding when you're going against their better guys. And so we're going to have to do better in a lot of Those.

[Jason McIntyre]

Situations, that's good stuff. That's like Phil Jackson level chess right there, basically. Hey, hey, they were playing good defenders down the stretch. What do you want us to do? Jalen Brunson was on the bench. That's what he's alluding to. I mean, Kyle, that is a major shot at Tibo. And you wonder, you know, Tibeto has lost a bunch of big games in his career, never really broken through and won the big one. And you wonder if he's going to think, hey, we can't get stopped. We got to pull Brunson. I can't imagine that. But everything's got to be in play. Game four, you can't lose this.

[Colin Cowherd]

Your game is your game. And we talked about this at the end of yesterday's show. Halliburton's a better defender than Brunson. A better distributor, not the closer. But when Halliburton's not playing for the Pacers, they're not the same offense. They can disintegrate very quickly. There are moments, fairly irregularly when Brunson's off the floor. The Knicks defend better and cat flourishes. So you. So the point is, the Knicks are not a championship team. They have two major flaws. They're not a championship team. You can't be have your two stars be bad defensively, especially when OKC defensively is maybe the best team ever. They're not a championship team. So what you have to do because Brunson is your quarterback is to find a better complimentary piece. This is all a lesson you have to learn. The NBA is steps. Last year, the Knicks weren't close. This year they're kind of close. They need another tweak because it's real clear what. What Carlisle is saying and what teams are doing.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen, they're. They're more than close, Colin. They're in the Final Four here. They got a legitimate shot. Should be up two, one. But I won't go there with that freakish Game one collaps. Listen, man, they went out and got Mikhail Bridges, who's a very good wing defender. They got OG Anunoby, who's a very good wing defender. They've got guys Brunson just has to not foul. And you know, as a defender, I know you're saying he's terrible, but we saw this with Steph Curry, and the warriors were able to get through and win two titles without Kevin Durant, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

15, 22. Steph's better than Brunson. You know, there's a gap between Steph's Game and Brunson's game.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, he's a little better.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, but like, yeah, he's a tough. A top 1012 player of all time. Brunson's not a top 40 player of all time. 50 player young. Come on.

[Jason McIntyre]

I can't believe you've gone from loving Brunson to, well, he's a terrible defender.

[Colin Cowherd]

I can love Joe Burrow and say one more big injury and I have to draft another quarterback. I'm a grown up. I can, I can contextualize stuff. I can think two things. I love Caleb Williams, but he better be good by mid October. Two things can be true. I don't have to take a side on Brunson. He's the best quarterback in New York. I love him. But he doesn't defend. You can pick on him and he needs the ball. He's not an off ball player. SGA's big scoring, everybody feels like they're touching it. Halliburton doesn't even have to score. He creates pace and touches. Brunson's game is his game. He's got a score. He's got to have the ball. Therefore you have to figure out guys that play. We've seen this before. By the way, Westbrook needed the ball. OkC. Eventually Durant said, I can't play with this. I can't do it. So like, everybody's got their game, Brunson has his. It's the front office's job to find the right pieces.

[Jason McIntyre]

James Harden, not a great defender. An elite offensive talent. Right. There was another one that I had thought of, but essentially you've got to just figure it out as a coach, that's your job. Hey, we got here, we won 50 plus games, we're in the Eastern Conference.

[Colin Cowherd]

Also, also remember, Brunson's not a baby. He played significantly in college, big minutes playing defense. He came out as an old college player. And under Tibbs practice time in minutes, he's an old 28. He's 28 going on 30 between Villanova, New York. Those are hard grinding minutes practices in games. So Brunson's 28, but he doesn't have. This is not like Mike Dantoni's offense where you don't even practice defense. That's not what the Knicks are.

[Jason McIntyre]

People don't want to hear this, but Luka Doncic got to the finals as a terrible defender. They just got him rim protectors. You know, I don't want to besmirch.

[Colin Cowherd]

The name of Thomas again. Luka Doncic is a much different level player than Brunson. Like Luka is going to go down. Yeah, he's going to go down, arguably as a top five scorer of all time. He's a totally different player.

[Jason McIntyre]

Isaiah Thomas of the Pistons, you remember, wasn't a great defender, but Joe Dumars, they paired him with Dumars, who would then lock up Clay. Covering up for Steph like it can be done. Knicks are fine. They're winning tonight, by the way. Just want to put that on your radar.

[Colin Cowherd]

What's the line?

[Jason McIntyre]

Plus two. I got Knicks plus two. And I am back betting on this one. I like the Knicks in this one, Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll take the Pacers minus two.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, let's go on to the next story. Let's go to baseball again. Sh. Otani. Boy, Colin, look what he did last night against the New York Mets.

[Colin Cowherd]

First pitch of the game.

[Jason McIntyre]

Bow gone. Ohtani now with 19 home runs leading the league, Aaron Judge with 18. Ohtani's on pace for 55 homers and 35 steals. Last year, he had 54 homers and 59 steals. I mean, I don't see who's more.

[Colin Cowherd]

Valuable than this guy LeBron.

[Jason McIntyre]

You should just give him the MVP every single year and nobody's gonna say a damn.

[Colin Cowherd]

I love I. The crowd shots are interesting. I'm always kind of fascinated to watch him. He's in Cleveland, so I'm fascinated to watch how many Dodger jerseys there are. It's a Caitlin Clark effect where it's like when Ohtani goes on the road. I think the Dodgers lead the baseball in road attendance. It used to be the Yankees for years and years with a rod and Jeter and the Bombers. But it's interesting when you watch a Dodger road game. Look at how many Dodger blue jerseys are in the crowd. It's crazy. Even in Cleveland.

[Jason McIntyre]

Curry. Remember Curry? Back when I lived in Pennsylvania, we went to a Sixers warriors game.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is before.

[Jason McIntyre]

Like, this is 2014, 15. I was in on Curry then I had my kids outfitted in Steph Curry jerseys. I thought they would be like, standing out. Tons of Curry jerseys everywhere in the lower bowl in Philly. And it's like, Curry, Caitlin Clark. And I would agree with you. Ohtani just transcendent superstars. Colin, final story is CD Lamb is on the Cowboys, obviously, and the superstar and Jerry Jones has paired him with George Pickens. Ceedee and George Pickens are now working out in OTAs, and Lamb talked about how the new addition has been.

[Colin Cowherd]

We complement each other very well, obviously. He's a, he's a tall, tall figure. Obviously his ability to go up and get the ball at the highest point is amazing. I don't think anybody in the league that can really, I mean he's up there with the guys in the league, you know, as far as 50, 50 balls, deep threat, anything as far as running routes.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's pretty good.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's good to see. Listen, he'll be a great receiver on a six win team.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wait, Colin, I thought I changed your mind last week. I don't know if we can pull up the Cowboys schedule. It's favorable enough early. CV and Pickens can start to cook and I'm not changing my tune and saying they're going to go to the playoffs or anything, but they're more than a six win team with that offense now the defense, the offensive line. There are still some lingering questions, but the schedule early is favorable. Colin, for the Cowboys, let's, let's not, let's not write them.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was favorable last year for the Steelers early. And then what happened to the Steelers late? The truth comes out in the NFL. The truth. The truth is no. Is Thanksgiving on by the way, Tua. Sunny weather looks like a different quarterback. Two in December, January on the road is a different quarterback. The truth of the NFL in the NBA, the truth is the playoffs in the NFL, the truth is post Thanksgiving.

[Jason McIntyre]

I would agree they're not going to the playoffs, but they can. Again, from a gambler's perspective, I think there's going to be some value on Dallas early because everybody's down on them. The national narrative is they're not going to the playoffs. We would agree, but the schedule early. You're going to surprise some people. You know Pickens playing for a big contract, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, yeah, they're yeah, 6 and 11. But a lot of fun to watch in October is what told me. J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. So this is something I find really interesting. So Cam Newton, who by the way, I like him as a podcaster more than I did as a quarterback. I think he's a really good podcaster. He was fine at quarterback. He was just a little flashy and too inconsistent. But he's a good podcaster. He says interesting things. He doubles down on the criticism of Caleb Williams being entitled. Now, Boomer Esiason, as a former excellent NFL quarterback, got to a Super bowl, was an MVP at one point Boomer Esiason had called him on New York radio. Caleb Williams he said, you know, the entitlement is breathtaking. And so Cam Newton said yesterday, it's a strong take, but he's not wrong. We're living in the golden era of entitlement. So coming from Cam, it's kind of funny, but I'm not going to take any shots. Whatever. Can we just be totally honest about Caleb Williams? If he got Sean Payton as a coach, as a rookie, none of this story would would be here. If he got a competent offensive staff, this wouldn't be a story. I, I do not see entitlement with young quarterbacks. Even Shador Sanders. It's more his dad, Bo Nix, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, Michael Pennix. I'm blown away by how lucky the NFL is at the focus, the commitment and the maturity of all these young quarterbacks. I'm blown away by it. I mean, I certainly wasn't this mature at 23 years old. You go look at Mahomes and Allen and Burrow and Lamar and Herbert and Bill and Tua, they're like grown ups in their early 20s. It's amazing. Yes, Caleb Williams and his father were deeply concerned about the Bears historical offensive ineptitude. I don't know if you watched the Bears last year, but they were proven 100% correct on all of their concerns. That's not called entitlement. That's called doing your homework, assessing accurately an assignment, understanding the temperature of the room. Even the Bears, by firing people through the season, acknowledged we're not doing this kid any favors. The Bears acknowledged by all their firings, it's not the kid, it's the grownups around the kid. So I get to regularly meet these young football players, these quarterbacks, a Bo Nix I'll meet or a Caleb Williams. I never think of them as immature and entitled, ever. In fact, I would say the last entitled quarterback, and you know who it is because I said he was undraftable was Johnny Manziel. I said I wouldn't draft Baker Mayfield, but I didn't say he was undraftable to the league. I said Baker needs to grow up. Baker is a top 20 quarterback since he arrived in this league. He's talented and he's matured. I didn't think Baker was entitled. He was a hard worker. Johnny Manziel is the quarterback that was entitled. He now admits it as he's matured. Johnny Manziel, the money sign, didn't do the homework. Not watching film that's entitled. Caleb Williams and his dad had concerns. And I also think you have to consider culturally what has happened. Caleb Williams was our first collegiate nil superstar. He was making more than everybody on USC staff. Not name Lincoln Riley. Do you think at 22, if you were making $5 million a year, you would always make every day the best decision? Or maybe Caleb Williams and his dad saw what Matt Stafford went through in Detroit and how it would have crushed an otherwise brilliant career. Can you imagine if Stafford went to McVeigh or a Shanahan or an Andy Reid out of college? We wouldn't now be debating if He's a top 20 quarterback ever. He would be a top five quarterback ever. So where you land matters, it is not entitlement to be deeply concerned. Now, I do think, and I know this because I reported a year ago, he and his dad were thinking of figuring out a way not to go there. But in the end, Caleb didn't want to push the nuclear option. Put his head down. I'm going to work my way through it. But I've seen Entitled. I've seen Entitled. I've seen Johnny Manziel, I've seen over the top. I just disagree with Boomer Esias and Cam Newton. I regularly get opportunities to meet these young professional college to professional quarterbacks. Even Baker Mayfield, though, I thought he needed to grow up. Baker's a good guy, hard worker, some real leadership moxie. And that was a guy I was critical of. Tim Tebow was a guy. I didn't like his game, but he was mature and focused and committed. So I don't buy the entitlement thing. I've seen entitlement. That's not it. I think multiple times over my career I've said this. We're very lucky. How often the star of the NFL is a Brady, is a Manning, is a Mahomes, what looks like a Jaden Daniels, like you'd want him to be your son. You'd want them to be part of your family. They're so committed, so driven, despite the fact they're getting ridiculed. Hot takes the culture of opinion. I don't see the commitment. Cam Newton, though, he sees it. We are living in the golden era of entitlement. And I hate that for sports as a whole. Right. Whether it's the parent or the player, you may not like the words, but behind what Boomer Assassin is saying is some truth. And that's a lot of merit to the thinking of how a lot of guys who have came through this league are in the league feel about guys coming into the league. Yeah. I mean, if the culture of the NFL has always been. The league is bigger than any player, including Brady. Brady. Left ratings went up. Far left ratings went up. Like I do not see football culture in America. You are coached hard. Basketball culture, AAU culture can be a little, you know, get your thing, get your bag, get your stuff. A little bit too much for me. And really great coaches like Kerr have questioned if AAU makes our basketball players better. But football culture in America is not about entitlement. It's about putting in the work, putting in the time, being kind of strangely obsessed. And I don't see it. Coming up next, Aaron Rodgers. It sounded like retirement is on the table. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Summer is almost here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there, but a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The Ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance, while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game, so why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started. Well, with the Gemini credit card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas, or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin. Or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit Card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.comcard to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web bank in order to Qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit card terms, see Rates and Fees.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sunday the fastest racing on Earth gets the streets of the Motor City for the Detroit Grand Prix. The IndyCar season continues Sunday at 12:30 Eastern on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Matt Hasselbeck yesterday on our show assured us that Aaron Rodgers is going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. May very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know. He was. He was recently. He was doing a Q and A in front of people. Aaron was. And again, when you're, when you're performative in front of people, you may say things that in the moment gets the crowd worked up or I'm not holding Aaron to every word of a public podcast or a public talk. People say things. But it does sound like there's a story out there. I think Aaron said he would play for $10 million. That tells me that money's not driving him. He also said recently, I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me where he play, plays matters. And this sounds like he's not that far from retirement. I've thought about that and I don't understand what the, what the reason for that is. You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most of my my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the, the cool thing about it. But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the packers eyes? There's a lot of love from me and how I feel about the team. If I do or if I don't, I don't think it should make a difference. I'm not sure yet if they approached me about it, I probably would. Yeah. Aaron saying, you know, if they approach me about playing. I probably would. Well, they have Jordan Love. So you're saying you'd be a backup and so you're saying you would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback. So you're basically saying is, I'd go be a backup for Green Bay. Wow, that's something. You'd play for 10 million. That's something. I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's something. These are your words. But I was saying when the show ended yesterday, I said, you know, there's two quarterbacks. In the history of great quarterbacks, I've never quite known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers, because whereas baseball is about stats, stats are really important for baseball people. And basketball style and culture is really important. In football, it's about winning big games. That's why Elway, who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino, is here and Marino's much lower. Jon got to the big game more, even if he lost it. And to me, there's always been four or five things. When you start counting everything for the great quarterbacks, I want to know your super bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win all of them. I'm not looking for six for six. I want division titles, so you at least dominate your division. You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record. Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them. But I want you to have some impressive playoff resume stuff. And I'll count MVPs, which are a personal award, but they mean something. It means a high level of play amongst your peers. I will not count passer rating. TUA and Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson have a significantly higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Josh Allen. I know Aaron has the best passer rating of all time. I do not care. Passer rating does not matter. It's like NBA Coach of the Year Phil Jackson has won. It's an irrelevant award. I think the people who win it put the plaque in their garage behind the rakes and the brooms. It just doesn't matter. And passer rating means Nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst your peers. You are the best that season, so that matters. But when you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're not close. Aaron's been to one super bowl, had One great playoff run. 11 and 10 in the playoffs, division titles. Yes, MVPs. Impressive. But what do I do with that? Where do I put that? Because when you put him in that group of all time great quarterbacks, Brady, Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw, Farve, Aikman, Young, not even Marino matches up. And, and I've said this before. Well, Marino, Marino and Aaron are the same, really talented, may have the two best releases I've ever seen. Aesthetically pleasing. But relative to talent, they didn't win enough. I mean, Dan Marino had Don Shula, arguably the best coach of all time, still didn't dominate his division. One great playoff run and had good teammates. Aaron always had a good old line, always had an offensive coach. In much of Aaron's career, the Lions were awful, the Bears were egregiously bad and Minnesota was never great. Although they had some great players. They were kind of good. And yet Kirk Cousins went.500 the minute he got into that division against Aaron. So I've never understood exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again, this is not basketball. It's not about style, it's not about culture. It's winning big games. If you think about Aaron Rodgers, all time greatest playoff moments. One jumps out. The Jared Cook throw against Dallas. It may be as good as anything I've ever seen. But Eli Manning, who I didn't put on that board, has two of those. David Tyre and Mario Manningham. And he's got two Super Bowls over Brady and Belichick. Manning's also a guy. What do I do? What do I do with Eli? He's like Philip Rivers. If Philip Rivers won Super Bowls, what do I do? So this, and I've said this with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers, it's hard to quantify Super Bowls division titles, productivity, winning big games, iconic moments, they're everything else. I'll give them the MVPs. Those matter. But I was looking at passer rating this morning. I just. It's nonsense. And this is as. And I've always, my belief has always been Aaron at the end of his career played to protect his passer rating. If he threw an interception or two, he shut it down. He played to protect that all time number one passer rating. And it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. But Peyton Mannings is 16th, Kurt Warner's is 19th, Josh Allen is 23rd. In fact, Derek Carr and Josh Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I can't count that. That can't be A thing. If you don't have, if you have one NBA Finals appearance as a coach, but you've won the coach of the year four times, I'm putting you below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry, I got to put you below. Well, Phil had Michael Jordan, Doug Collins had him. Stan Ulbricht hit him. Well, I mean, Phil had Kobe Bryant. So did Del Harris. I don't want to hear it. His, his New York Knicks day may have been a mess. I don't want to hear it. All right, J. Mac. Also, I, Nick Wright is on at the top of the hour. I will hold.

[Jason McIntyre]

I cannot let some of that slide. You know, I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the jets, he was terrible, he got it, blah, blah.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's all right.

[Jason McIntyre]

But I do have to put in some context. Like Eli Manning was, was great in two super bowl games.

[Colin Cowherd]

Two games.

[Jason McIntyre]

Aaron Rodgers has been great for seasons.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

What matters more to you, a 16 game season sample size where he won four MVPs.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Or a game for Eli where he won one Super Bowl.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated and I would rate him higher than Eli Manning as a quarterback.

[Jason McIntyre]

But. And that's, that's where it gets difficult because it's like, are we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough Super Bowls, not winning enough and pumping up Eli because of, you know, off run?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think Eli Manning is absolutely fairly categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a top 15 quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top 15 quarterback. But you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime twice have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't know. He's Philip Rivers. No, he's not. So, so nobody is saying. I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So Obviously regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot. But again, we're talking all time top 1012 guys. Everything is something. Nothing's everything, but everything is something. So I mean, my take is with Aaron and Marino. If you're going to count them up against Brady and Montana and Elway and Mahomes and you're going to get ding for getting to one Super Bowl.

[Jason McIntyre]

So do you have Elway above Aaron Rodgers?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. I think. Yeah. I don't even again, I grew up, you know, I'm watching John Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan. Right. Like I saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership, fourth quarter comebacks. I think he's one of a short Group back Hour two Next BMW didn't just design an electric suv. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With a BMW ix, you'll experience unmatched power, utility, spaciousness, versatility. My favorite feature Cloud based navigation monitors charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease. BMW lets performance do the talking and the scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail. The following heartwarming yet informative scene is brought to you by Trust and Will Son. Your grandpa and I used to work on this car together and when I'm gone, I want you to have it. Wow. Thanks dad. Doesn't count. What you need is a will. Luckily, Trust and Will makes it easy. Designed by attorneys but customized by you, you can easily create a state specific, legally valid document that actually counts. Now let's let the engine do the talking. Am I right? Start your [e-mail] use offer code count for 20% off and make it count. Trust and Will is an online estate planning service. For details, see trustandwill.com okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And Degree listens. That doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and they're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under four bucks. So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset. Your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leadership to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders. This is an Iheart podcast.