Jason McIntyre (3:26)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (3:27)

So you kind of feel. You kind of feel that way. So, like, as a Kings fan and used to cover the team for a while, it's like, it's okay.

Colin Cowherd (3:33)

It's.

Jason McIntyre (3:33)

It was the champs last night. I got into the show. Young Sheldon. Have you seen it? I. I never really knew about it, but I guess it's old. And my kids started watching Young Sheldon. So listen, no NBA last night. I'm sorry. I'm not watching hockey. It's been some time with the kids. Young Sheldon, good show. I highly recommend it. That's funny. We have a great show today. So Tom Pelissaro, NFL Network will come in in the final hour. You're going to want to hear some of his stuff, especially on the Vikings, who I gassed up this week, and what's happening in Cleveland, which we'll get to shortly. Eddie House. You guys know I'm a big Eddie House guy. Eddie House mysteriously ghosting me since the Celtics got bounced by the Knicks. We'll talk to him next hour. But I got to start the show, obviously, with the NBA Finals. The Pacers thunder. Feel the excitement. Listen, folks. To say OKC is an overwhelming favorite is an understatement. They are minus 700 currently to win the series. It was minus 8. Some money came in on the Pacers, but essentially that means you want to win a hundred dollars, you got to bet 700 on okc. It's dumb. They are massive favorites. Game 1. I saw the line was 10. Are you kidding me? Now, don't just run to bet the Pacers in game one of the series. I will make a case for Indiana, but it kind of sort of feels like a coronation has already begun. I mean, everybody online and anywhere you go, radio, tv, on the Internet, everybody's picking okc. I haven't seen anyone take the Pacers yet. And why would you? I mean, OKC won 68 games. And frankly, did you hear Tyrese Halliburton yesterday at Media day talking about okc. Take a listen to Tyrese Halliburton of the Pacers.

Tyrese Halliburton (5:12)

They're historically great on both sides of the ball. They have the mvp. I mean, there's so many different things that you could name down the list of why they are so great at what they do and why they're such a great team. You want to go through the best team. You want to go through the best challenge. So this is the best challenge, and this is the best team in the NBA. It's been the best team in the NBA all year. And they're well coached.

Jason McIntyre (5:32)

They just.

Tyrese Halliburton (5:32)

They just do everything so well, so there's no shortcuts to beating this team. And we know the odds are stacked against us, but, you know, it is what it is.

Jason McIntyre (5:40)

Geez, the way you hear that, I mean, it's like they could take down the 97 Bulls. They might sweep the KD Curry warriors at this rate. Everybody loves OKC, by the way. Did you hear OKC? 29 and 1 against the east this year. Hello. There's going to be a bloodbath, right? You know, it's. This is right where the Pacers want to be. Nobody really gave him a chance against Cleveland except this guy. I was one of the few out there who picked the Pacers to take take down the Cavs. Now, I didn't pick them to beat the Knicks. Few did. They were underdogs. And what did they do? They just went into Cleveland. First two games. Give me those. Then they go into New York. First two games. I'll take those. And they won the series. And, folks, let's just put things in perspective. Have you seen the fallout when you lose to the Indiana Paces in these playoffs? So the Pacers beat the Bucs in the first round. Obviously, Dame went down. Obviously not great. And Milwaukee Bucks, all we've heard from them since then is, so where do we trade Giannis? Where do we start over? Where do we hit? The detonation on this team, Pacers wiped him out. Then the Pacers beat Cleveland, and there was basically a fan mutiny in Cleveland. Cleveland was the number one seed in the east almost all season. They run away with the conference, everybody thinks, oh, we got. We can make the Finals. And now it's like, oh, my, we lost to the Pacers. We got embarrassed by them. Do we blow it up? Do we fire the coach? What do we do? Trade Donovan Mitchell? The Pacers are in disarray. And my Knicks, of course, after losing to the Pacers within three days, Tom Thibodeau is fired. Wait till you hear some of the reports coming out about Jalen Brunson's dad. We'll get to those later in the show. Like, oh, my gosh. Karl Anthony Towns a scapegoat. The Pacers do this to you? They shocked the world by shooting 40% from three in the playoffs. Nobody's sniffing that. And they were just a good three point shooting team this season. I think they were like ninth or 10th in the league. Now by a mile, they're one. And I know the regular season matchups didn't go their way, but I could counter. Nobody tries in the regular season except okc. Remember, the Knicks got broomed by the Celtics and then turn the tables in the playoffs. So, like, let's not read too much into OKC destroying Indiana in the regular season. I'm of the belief that the Pacers, everything OKC does well, Indiana can match that. Okc, you got depth. So do we. Did you notice in the Cleveland series, the Pacers had a different leading scorer in every game? I'm telling you, they. They run eight or nine deep. I like how they can throw multiple bodies. Knee Smith, Nemhard coming off the bench, Ben Shepard, the mustache dude who. Who doesn't look like much of a player. And then it's like, oh, shucks, he just put the muzzle on Jalen Brunson for four minutes. Like, the Pacers got guys, they push tempo, they can hang with threes. They got depth. They got a great coach who, oh, by the way, is the guy who threw a zone at LeBron and the Heels in the Finals, who threw J.J. bray at LeBron. Rick Carlisle's got some stuff cooked up. I'm here to tell you. Give me the Pacers in six. And I know that's not going to be popular in okc, but they already hate me there, so who cares? All right, let's move to Cleveland, which is basically ground zero for NFL OTAs. And the Shadour Sanders drama continues. Folks, listen, you never want to overreact to. Can we call it imaginary football in June? I mean, they're not playing with, like, real effort. It's just basic stuff. And the division that we're seeing is so. I mean, it's massive. The gulf of what you see people saying about Shadour Sanders. You would think he's ready to start week one. I mean, you see former NFL quarterbacks on social media breaking down every pass. Oh, my gosh, look at the movement in the pocket. Look at that cannon. This is why Shedeur is the man you see Our very own Colin Coward, who, oh, by the way, is not even on this continent and is checking in on Shadour Sanders. OTAs, this is what Colin Cowherd put on social media yesterday. No reason to overwork a future hall of famer. And OTAs, let's get him some rest for week one. Obviously he's saying that in jest, but the whole overwork thing is because despite all the hype for Shador, he's the only quarterback on the Browns who wasn't playing with the ones Kevin Stefanski said, you go over there and work with the, the backups and the guys who are, you know, off, off season, FedEx drivers, you know, who are trying to make an NFL roster. That's your. That's your speech ador. And the more that Kevin Stefanski does this, I think it empowers all the Shador guys who are putting on their capes. Say, why isn't he start. Why is Kenny Pickett getting reps over Shador? Well, here's Kevin Stefanski earlier this week on Shedeur and the other rookie, Dylan Gabriel.

Kevin Stefanski (10:34)

Those guys are doing great. They are both wired to get in early, get stay late, put in whatever work is required. They're sponges in the meeting room, which I think is really fun for me. In my vantage point, I get to sit there and watch the two young guys look over and there's Joe, 40 years old, one Super Bowl. There's Kenny Pickett just going into year four, but first round draft pick that's been on a couple teams, won a Super bowl last year. There's desean, had a ton of success in his career. They can kind of feed off of all those guys. So that's the thing. I'm really. It's fun for me to watch them get better sometimes just by listening.

Jason McIntyre (11:15)

Did you see, I mean, he's framing Kenny Pickett as a Super bowl winner who was a former first round pick. Talk to any NFL fan. And the first word that comes up with Kenny Pickett, oh, bum. He's nothing. Well, come on, give me a break. And Kevin Stefanski says he won a Super bowl and was a first round pick. You guys need to do some more homework before you crown Shador Sanders. And in the morning meeting today, you know, I'm going all in on Shador. I'm like, listen, he's not getting first team reps. We need to pump the brakes. And somebody smart said, you know, Shador is like the latest iPhone that comes out, right? The new iPhone comes out, it's going to Be amazing. It, it might even be legendary. And then you get the iPhone and it's like, oh, this is cool. It's nothing special. It's not that dramatically different. It's not going to change my life. And I wonder if that's where she door is kind of trending. I mean, I mean, the guy's got be legendary is his motto. He's throwing really lavish NFL draft parties and he's fourth on the depth chart decidedly. And you know, the other argument is, well, Jay, they're treating him like a fifth round quarterback. And I'm like, yeah, that's what they're doing. He wasn't a first round pick. I would have taken him in the first, but I didn't know all the Dion nonsense. Well, Jay, you know, Dak Prescott was a third round pick and he got the start. I'm sorry, Jack Prescott, fourth round pick. This is where it gets real good. So I started looking into Dak. How did Dax start as a rookie? Dak was drafted in the fourth round in Dallas. He started out fourth on the depth chart. These are all the things that needed to happen for Dak Prescott to get started and for him to become now the richest quarterback in NFL history. Kellen Moore, who was the backup to Tony Romo. Kellen Moore broke his leg in training camp. So instantly it's like, oh, who's going to be the backup? So Dak was then battling someone named Jamil Showers, not familiar with his work. He was a second year guy and Dak outplayed him in a preseason game. That's it. Outplayed him in one. And all of a sudden Dak went from fourth to the backup. It's like, wow, what a rise. Well, you know what happened after that? Tony Romo broke his back literally in preseason, week three and presto, fourth round. Dak Prescott, who six weeks prior was fourth string, next thing you know, he's starting for the Cowboys and he got his chance and he made the most of it. That's gonna be the kind of chain of events that's gonna take Shador Sanders from fourth string. I'm not going to count desean Watson because nobody thinks he's really going to play. The owner has kind of written him off. But that's what it's going to take for Shedeur to overtake Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett or Joe Flacco. I mean, I think we all agree Flacco's a pro. Stefanski loves him. Flacco led them to the playoffs a couple years ago. He's Safe. Maybe you flip Pickett to another team and you can scrounge up a third or fourth round traffic. Who knows? Unlikely, but maybe. And then there's Dylan Gabriel, who Stefanski loves. And oh, by the way, OC Tommy Reese, Notre Dame legend. Not a legend, but I, I'm throwing around legendary because that's what Shador likes. Anyways, here's Tommy Reese on Dylan Gabriel, Shador Sanders and the Hullabaloo.

Kevin Stefanski (14:33)

You can see them all winning the job, I think. Right. And so in terms of the competition, we're so early in the process, we're so early in evaluating it. But yeah, I think, you know, we have a good group of guys that are continuing to push one another and by the time September rolls around, we'll be ready to go.

Jason McIntyre (14:47)

Oh boy, oh boy. Not a lot of love for Mr. Shador Sanders. So my, my guess here, and I haven't seen this line hung anywhere in Vegas. How many starts for Shador Sanders? Like again, it's way too early to hang a line like that. But I've been lower than the market, lower than the everyone else out there. I'm on like a one and a half. I think it's over. Under one and a half for Sudor now that's in June. Could that easily change should there be an injury, a trade, yada, yada, yada. Is there a world where all of a sudden Shador maybe starts five games? You know, I, I don't see it. Guys. I'm just going to remind you. Drake May was a first round pick last year for the Patriots. He, he didn't sniff a start in September. Now obviously the coach knew, had no clue what he was doing. They run him out of town and Drake B's really, really good. I don't quite think that's the case with Stefanski and Shador. Now it's June. I'm not trying to overreact, but man, you gotta love the quarterback drama in Cleveland. Coming up next year on the Herd. Finals get underway tonight. Big point spread, big love for sga. Can we stop putting his name in the same sentence as Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan because of the mid range? I'll tell you who SGA is next here on the Herd.

Colin Cowherd (16:04)

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Jason McIntyre (19:18)

You are now entering the no Bull zone, sponsored by Credible Great rates with.

Colin Cowherd (19:23)

None of the bull.

Jason McIntyre (19:25)

Definitely no BS coming here, folks. SGA is an incredible basketball player. He is currently minus 600 to win the NBA Finals MVP. Minus 600, guys, that's. Come on. Nobody else is winning the award. It's sga. Unless he gets hurt or the Pacers win. Right? That's what the market's telling you. And a great producer. Ryan Music had an amazing stat today. So if SGA wins the Finals and the Finals mvp, he will become the fourth player in NBA history to lead the NBA in scoring in a season, win the mvp, win the title and the Finals mvp. Only three guys have done that. Okay? These three guys are kind of a big deal. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, my dad's favorite player who I loved for the few years I could see him before he retired. This guy named Michael Jordan the second greatest player in NBA history. And Shaquille o' Neal, that's the company SGA joins if he wins a title and a Finals mvp, which according to the gambling market, seems very likely. So instantly, we're putting SGA in this hallowed territory. We're going to do that. That's what the media does. They need to crown somebody. We need the next guy because KD's old. Yeah, KD, I saw your comment online. LeBron's old, Curry's old. We need that next dude. And it may not be Anthony Edwards. You know, maybe it is the Canadian sga, or as I like to call him, the Canadian James Harden. Because I'm here to tell you, as good as SGA is, to me, he's James Harden 2.0. Okay? That's not a knock. James Harden, you guys forget seven, eight years ago, was eviscerating the NBA. He was unstoppable offensively. There were credible discussions started by Daryl Morey, but nevertheless, that James Harden was the best scorer the NBA had seen since Michael Jordan. He was averaging 35 a game. Led the league in scoring, I believe four straight years. Led the league in assists once. And this is my favorite stat, courtesy of someone in our. One of our great stack guys. James Harden led the league in free throws seven times in eight years. James Harden was a free throw merchant before sga. And some other interesting stats and you got to kind of drill down on these. But there's now a billion stats in the NBA, right? There's all this tracking data. James Harden was like leading the league in isolations, drives to the basket. All these stats that are basically like, I'm a ball hog. Nobody can stop me and I'm going to the 10. SGA is doing the exact same thing. Nobody isolates now more than sga. Now the big difference in their two games on offense is Harden would hit the three. Usually the step back. SGA has made the mid range. He's not as good of a three point shooter. That's the only difference. Otherwise they're the same. Pound the ball. I can take you to the hoop and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the theatrics and flop. You guys think LeBron flops? Take a look at the free throw merchant. He is always drawing the foul. He does that hook move. I'm just telling you, it's all this herky jerky stuff. There's a good comedian, Sebastian Manisculo, who, who does all these theatrics. That's who kind of SGA reminds me of sometimes when he's driving to the basket and he gets these calls and you could see the Timberwolves were pissed. Jaden McDaniels got so frustrated, he just outright shoved him at one point. Now I know this is going to be popular and I can already hear people say, well, what do you know? James Harden never played a lick of defense. He was not a great defender. I get you guys. SGA is on a great defensive team. He's loaded. Hey, man, you're gonna get by me fine. Chad Holmgren on the background, he's got my back. I got Alex Crusoe, Kason Walla. They have a really, really good defensive team. So SGA doesn't have to be a great defender. Is he better than hardnet defense? I would probably. I don't have any metrics to back that up, nor do you. But yes, on the surface, SGA is a better defender. I asked Jovan Buha here earlier this week if he thinks SGA is hardened 2.0.

Jovan Buha (23:33)

I think it is just because. Because of the playoff track record at this point. We've seen with Harden. When you look at some of his notable playoff performances, especially in games five to seven, game six performances, game seven performances, like he shrinks on the moment. And, and so I think with Shea already, I mean, Harden's been to the finals, but he was in the Finals as a sixth man. He hasn't been to the finals as the guy. He hasn't gotten over that hump yet. So I know it's a bit reductive, and I don't. But, like, we have the track record, right?

Jason McIntyre (24:09)

That's fair. And a lot of people will disagree with this take. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with my NBA takes this week. Very strange. Usually everybody just agrees with me. I mean, it's like universal J. Mack, I got you. I see you, King. But not a lot this week. Just a reminder. SGA really, really good. I'm not diminishing his date. Calling him James Harden is not a knock. James Harden, probably One of the 25, 30 best players in the history of the sport. You know, he's got to be one of the best players in league history without a ring. He's done a ton. Just because SGA is going to do something historical, it doesn't mean he's a historic great. Okay, Robert Ori, my guy won seven rings. I don't think anybody says he's better than Jordan. He has more rigs. He's better than. I don't think we're doing that. So, like, when SGA wins the title and finals MVP and he gets put in the same category as Kareem, Shaq and Jordan, let's. Let's just let sanity prevail and just say, man, he had a great season. Maybe this is an outlier. I mean, maybe there's a another season they duplicate this. But let's pump them if anything. SGA's James Harden 2.0. Let's go to Alex Curry with the news.

Alex Curry (25:21)

No, no, no, no.

Jason McIntyre (25:23)

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Alex Curry (25:26)

You're cracking me up with these NBA tapes. Slaking yourself.

Jason McIntyre (25:31)

Got that before my daughter, but she says. I can't say that.

Alex Curry (25:34)

I was gonna say.

Jason McIntyre (25:35)

That was like, apparently not cool to say slay anymore. Whatever. Okay? I mean, I'm late to the party.

Alex Curry (25:40)

I'm old cool. If you do it with confidence, that's any like, any kind of trend. Like, as long as you're, like, confident in what you wear and what you do, yeah, it's gonna be cool. Okay, let's start with OTAs. Miami Dolphins have a ton of questions on the roster, but for wide receiver Jalen Waddle, quarterback isn't one of them. Take a listen to Waddle, talk about his QB1.

Jason McIntyre (26:00)

Man, he's excited to play, man, I think all of us are. He look confident coming out with, you know, different Swag got dye in his.

Alex Curry (26:09)

Hair and some other stuff.

Jason McIntyre (26:10)

So, man, he looked like he just eating.

Alex Curry (26:14)

I mean, there's just always going to be that giant elephant in the room with Tua. One more big hit and his career could be over. Like, I honestly am, like, nervous and scared watching his games. If he's not sliding right, if he takes a big hit. Like, I, I love hearing that. He's confident and he's doing great, but at any moment, like, one, one more big hit for Tua and like, that could be it, not just for your starting quarterback, but his career and possibly, like, really affecting his life. Yeah, that's where it's tough for me.

Jason McIntyre (26:54)

I don't know. I, I, I kind of like this, this attitude the Tua has. I'm going to live in the moment. Yes. Is it over with another concussion? Is my brain mush? But you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to do me and have fun. His choice and, yeah, he could easily walk away from the game. Who's the guy who walked away from the L? Ragnar?

Alex Curry (27:12)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (27:12)

Just retire. I've been retired, too. I could do that.

Alex Curry (27:14)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (27:17)

I, I don't know what to make of, like, it's interesting. You see that bug on the screen. No, no. Tyree Kill. Tyree Kill is. He's the second biggest elephant. Yeah.

Alex Curry (27:29)

I mean, you never know what you're gonna get on or off the field with him. Like, he has more drama off the field, and then you gotta weigh, like, is it worth it with what you get on the field?

Jason McIntyre (27:41)

It feels Tua has had a good run under McDaniel, but maybe it's coming to an end. I, I don't, you know, the team started to figure them out, and his numbers went down a little last year, and they clearly have been passed by the Bills.

Alex Curry (27:56)

I mean, yeah, no, they're, they're definitely not finishing first in the AFC east, but, I mean, depending how your jets do. Like, again, a lot of question mark, people are really high on the Patriots. Miami comes down to Cantua, Stay healthy, and what are you gonna get from Tyreek Hill if he's actually y and he's on the field? But again, I, I love Tua. I've loved him since, like, before he got drafted. His whole draft story. I think Fox did a whole documentary on him, like, following his draft story. So I've been, like, a big Tua fan. I love who he is as a person. I just fear for his life every time he's on the field. And I I am not comfortable watching his games. But it's okay. I, I hope he does well and I hope he doesn't get another concussion. But let's switch gears to college football. J. Mac, I know you're a big gambler, but I bet this is going to blow your mind. North Carolina right now has the most underwind total bets in college football, with the win total set at seven and a half. But there's another interesting nugget here. So according to the Athletic, before April 15, 79% of the bets were on the over. Since April 15, 89% of the bets have been on the under. Now, April 15 is right around the time that the world became aware of Belichick's relationship with Jordan. Now, honestly, I'm not surprised here. Bill is going against everything he's ever stood for. His biggest thing when he was in the NFL. And we've heard a lot of former players say this do not be a distraction. Bill Belichick is the biggest thing distraction in college football right now. New England. Bill Belichick would fire North Carolina. Bill Belichick, like this is, this is not the Bill we grew up watching. Take a dynasty to where it became with Tom. This is a completely different Bill Belichick. And the world saw it and people are kind of betting against it right.

Jason McIntyre (29:56)

Now, which is wild, but I'm not. What am I missing? Why would you all a sudden bet against North Carolina? Just because he has a girlfriend. Who, by the way, did you guys notice Alex referred to her as Jordan? I didn't know she was on a one name basis like Kylie or whoever these other people.

Alex Curry (30:15)

It's a.

Jason McIntyre (30:16)

She is a big deal. Are you guys friends by the way, on IG or. No.

Alex Curry (30:19)

No.

Jason McIntyre (30:20)

Okay. Just had to chat.

Alex Curry (30:21)

No again, I love strong women in men's lives. I think it's really important. But the Bill that we knew before and everything he preached on the field and off the field is no distractions. This is all we're talking about with his new position in North Carolina is his relationship. This is the biggest distraction. I don't have a problem with her being his PR agent, running his social media, connecting to the youth, but it's once it bleeds onto the football field. We've seen her on the football field, we've seen with the, the documentary and everything that's being shot behind the scenes, being there. It's just there to be some sort of a balance.

Jason McIntyre (31:01)

I, I have a good question. Just listening to you break it down and I don't, I don't know how to relate to this.

Alex Curry (31:08)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (31:09)

Because I don't know any 70 year old guys dating 20 year old women. I'm going to ask you if one of your girlfriends rolled up, was like, oh, Alex, I, I got to tell you, I met this guy, he's 73 and I'm dating him.

Alex Curry (31:24)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (31:25)

What would your reaction be? Be honest. No, don't hold back here.

Alex Curry (31:29)

I mean I have really dear friends of all ages that are way younger than me that are in their 60s and 70s. Like age doesn't bother me. This is a little when you see like when she was born and how old Bill Belichick was like, that comparison is a little strange. But again, like, who am I to judge if they love each other and this is what it is like.

Jason McIntyre (31:53)

But I mean, different.

Alex Curry (31:54)

If I was like a parent and this was like a child, if this was your daughter, one like older than me, that's a little strange. But again, it's. No, I don't, I don't know, I don't know the relationship.

Jason McIntyre (32:04)

But again, do you have again, 50 year age gap?

Alex Curry (32:09)

Pretty big age gap?

Jason McIntyre (32:11)

Not anywhere close to 50.

Alex Curry (32:12)

No. That's definitely the biggest. But again, like I don't, I don't know anything about it. Like, I don't, I don't judge ages. That's, that's their thing, not mine. But again, if it was like someone close to me, like, like my daughter or a family member different, you have a little more inside information on the situation. We don't know the situation. All we see is the outside. So unless you're like close to them and like know both sides, I don't.

Jason McIntyre (32:39)

Think we can really have an opinion on that.

Alex Curry (32:41)

But let's head back to the NFL. Peyton Manning spent a lot of time around Joe Burrow last season as Burrow is going to be one of the stars of Manning's Netflix show, Coming Quarterback. Now, Manning was recently asked about Burrow and said there are expectations that come with being a franchise quarterback, but Joe is well aware of those and he can carry that burden and wants those expectations on his shoulders. I know he fully expects, as I do, to bring a championship here to Cincinnati. Now we all know Burrow has the talent to win, but does he have the support around him? Does he have a strong enough offensive line? Does he have a strong enough defense? Is the Bengals organization putting him in a position to help him succeed? I mean, history says no. It sounds good saying it in June, but he also historically hasn't had a strong start to the season. He's 111 in his first two weeks. He's gotten to the super bowl, but lost to Matthew Stafford and the Rams. And then besides that, he needs to continue to get past a Mahomes and Lamar Jackson to get there. So do you over under one super bowl for Burrow.

Jason McIntyre (33:43)

One super bowl win.

Alex Curry (33:44)

Yeah. One Super Bowl.

Jason McIntyre (33:46)

So what's tricky is like Marino went there in year two, never got back. The Bengals are similar heavily on the offense, terrible defense. Problem is Lamar.

Alex Curry (33:57)

That's what I'm saying. You got, you got to get through a lot of guys to get there.

Jason McIntyre (34:02)

I will reluctantly say no super bowl wins.

Alex Curry (34:05)

Jo it it's kind of similar to what the Jordan era. There are some great, great teams and great players playing with Jordan, but it's like I'm sorry that you're playing playing in a time where you have someone that's just like in a league of his own, it's hard to get by him.

Jason McIntyre (34:22)

Patrick Ewing, my guy never got a ring. Bummer. Alex with the news.

Alex Curry (34:28)

Well, that's the news and thanks for.

Jason McIntyre (34:30)

Stopping by the Herd line news. All right. And NBA Finals game one is tonight. We head to OKC to talk to a reporter who's been on the scene. Sounds like it's quite a vibe there. I don't know how my OKC takes are going to take go for him, but we'll find out shortly.

Colin Cowherd (34:46)

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

Steve Covino (34:51)

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Jason McIntyre (39:00)

Back here on the Herd. Jason McIntyre in for Colin. We got a great guest right now to break down the NBA Finals. Live from Oklahoma City, Anthony Slater covers the NBA for the Athletic. This is fun. He used to work at the Oklahomans way back. I used to have him on my radio show. He was covering the Thunder, then he covered the Warriors. He's been around. Anthony, what's a vibe around Gabe one of the finals right now?

Alex Curry (39:30)

It's, you know, excited in downtown Oklahoma City. Obviously. I went to event last night actually. Trey Young was around because Trey Young lives in Norman. But it's just the NBA world has descended upon Oklahoma City now. It was tough travel in with the, you know, the severe weather. You probably heard about the Pacers, right? They had to divert their flight and go to Tulsa and there was a lot of delays for a lot of the media and like NBA world that has come to Oklahoma City. So maybe a slight level of frustration on getting in. But I think there's a freshness to the matchup. And sure, you know, the ratings may not be spectacular. We'll see. But I do think the people who like, you know, are, you know, worried about the product on the floor, like and you know, love basketball, I think are excited about the style of plays between these two teams, the depth, the, the, you know, the fast paced nature of what we think will be maybe not a super competitive deep series, but I think a fun series.

Jason McIntyre (40:23)

It's interesting. You know, you mentioned like kind of fresh blood here in the Finals. So Anthony, I don't know, I went on a bit of a rant that I love super teams. I like the excitement of Kevin Durant going to the warriors and the warriors being hated and LeBron forming a team and everybody hating those guys. Like the super teams to me were interesting and it just easily generated discussion. I don't know that you get that with this matchup. Do you think you need it?

Alex Curry (40:49)

Yeah, yeah, it's. I think there's pros and cons to it. Where, you know, you mentioned I covered the Durant. The best playoffs I ever covered was 2016 when it was Durant's Thunder against the Warriors. And then obviously the snowball effect of that creating the storylines that you're talking about. But I will say when I covered the Durant warriors teams, they were fun to talk about, but then they went sweep, sweep, sweep in the west playoffs. And like those weren't, you know, I remember them in Utah. I was like, game three in Utah. You could like even the home crowd in Utah. I thought there was no chance that the Jazz were going to win it. And so they like, if I think back to those playoffs, there was such a lack of competitive drama to it, even though the teams and the, you know, the personalities were fun to cover. So it's a give and a take because I actually think these NBA playoffs have been really fun. And obviously the Thunder is kind of considered the Goliath type team, but they had a seven game series in the second round. And I thought the east playoffs, even the east finals, the second round, like there was a lot to it competitively. Even if, as you mentioned, you know, the big brand names, the LeBron's, the steps are kind of fading out a little bit.

Jason McIntyre (41:53)

Yeah. Let me ask, you said that competitive series against Denver. So if memory serves, it was 2, 2 Anthony game five in OKC. Denver led by nine in the fourth quarter. And at that point I've got my Choklahoma tweets all lined up and then Lou Dort gets volcanic and hits three straight threes and Lou Dort basically saved okc. If you have to go down three, two to Denver and Jokic is at home, it might have been a wrap. So how great is this OKC team?

Alex Curry (42:20)

Yeah, it's an interesting point because I remember I was in Minnesota at the time covering the Timberwolves Warrior series and we were with a bunch of reporters in a bar watching that Game five and everybody was discussing like there hadn't been a moment prior to that that you actually thought Denver was going to win the series. And there was a moment I think you mention mentioned in that second half where you're like, would you pick Denver at this exact point? And I think the answer was yes. Yeah, I, I think the battle scars that Oklahoma City went through helped. I, you know, we just talked to Jalen Williams because they had a long layoff before that Game one and then blew that Game one and you wonder about the long layoff tonight before the game and he mentioned they just had some clock management trouble. You probably remember the foul and three, the way they screwed up that game one. I think that's what really extended that series. The Thunder should have won that and gave it away. And also like maybe we should just credit Jokic and the Nuggets. Maybe they were the best, you know, competitive, you know, foil to the Thunder in these playoffs because Minnesota certainly didn't seem like it in the west finals. There was never a moment in that series you thought the Timberwolves really had a shot. So we'll see. Like maybe this isn't, you know, the, this Thunder team is equivalent to 68 win teams of the past that, you know, depending on what you think of that. But like they're, I think they're one of the heavier favorites ever in Vegas heading into the finals right now. So if they just roll through this finals, it's just statistically one of the greatest seasons in NBA history.

Jason McIntyre (43:43)

It is. But I don't do, I mean do you think they're like an all time great like I, I asked this question of a couple guests this week. Who would you take in a seven game series? Last year's Celtics that won the title or this year's Thunder? And I think that's pretty clearly the Celtics. Right?

Alex Curry (43:59)

It's a great question. I'm not sure. I would have loved to see them play a full throttle Celtics team this season. Obviously they didn't get that chance because the Celtics were loaded the way Porzingis was playing. It is a good point, but I mean how do you reconcile looking at what they did from the best point differential ever tied for the best net rating with the 72 bowl seems and then within the playoffs all the continued double digit wins, they I believe now have 61 wins by 10 or more points which is an NBA record. Where the 2017 warriors, the Durant warriors who just blasted teams had 60, that's the team they surpassed for most double digit wins ever in a full season plus playoffs. So like I get the point but I'm also like, you know, when does, when do the numbers and the records and what they've done to the rest of the league matter in the conversation?

Jason McIntyre (44:46)

Yeah, no, that's a great point. I didn't know that set 61 wins. Wow. So how much of that is. Well listen, this was kind of a strange year. Luka gets traded mid season. Joel embiid was the MVP of 5 minutes ago total non factor out for the Whole year. The Paul George trade blows up. The. The Phoenix Suns, who have a super team with all NBA guys. Bradley Beal, Booker. Correct. They don't even make the playoffs. You know, was it a weird year or. I don't know. Are the Thunder that freaking good? Because the eye test tells me, yeah, they're really good, but I don't know. Would you take them over the bubble? Lakers with AD and LeBron?

Alex Curry (45:22)

I think I would.

Jason McIntyre (45:23)

Well, wait, they were number one, number one in the west before COVID hit, I think.

Alex Curry (45:28)

Yeah. I mean, funny. Caruso was like, you know, the Lakers defensive ace that time. The, the Thunders. Now obviously I, I probably would. It's so tough to. To know, but you know, like, I think you obviously mentioned a few of the disaster situations in the league this year that crumble. But like, it was a deep, like the west was extremely deep with, you know, loads of good teams. And I think part of the reason some of those, you know, you mentioned the Suns, like, part of the reason the Suns had such a bad season is because there were so many good west teams above them that they just couldn't beat on a nightly basis. And those were the same teams that Thunder were just wiping off the floor with 20 point wins. And one of the things I would say to remember about the Thunder season, Chad Holmgren only plays 32 games. That's their third best player. Isaiah Hartenstein, who is their backup center, missed like 25 games. They went a stretch of games without a center. And we're playing Jalen Williams at center. They can play so many different ways. And I just think the difference between them and maybe some of the past Goliath type teams that were mentioning is they don't necessarily have the star scoring, right? But defensively they, you know, they, they cause turnovers more than basically any team. You know, since, since steals have been recorded, that type of stuff, I think that is what sets them apart. Their defense is just ferocious.

Jason McIntyre (46:39)

How much of this has to do with larger issues, macro stuff around the league, like, hey, if you stay with your team that drafts you, you can sign on supermax and make 300 million. And of course that doesn't apply to OKC because SGA wasn't drafted by them. But at the same time, the whole second apron stuff, you know, some of these teams, like the Celtics were already looking. How are we going to get off these contracts of bucks? We got to unload Giannis, Suns, we got to blow it up. Like, it just feels like the league is now set up for some more parody as opposed to what we had when you were like covering the Warriors.

Alex Curry (47:18)

Yeah, they're set up to break up the teams. Right. It's set up to make it so the Steve Ballmers can't just overpay and overpay and overpay. Or Joe Lakob. Right. You know, break up a Warriors type team from the past. The Thunder is uniquely built to maybe have an extended run here, but they're, you know, Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams were in the same draft. They're going to be extension eligible this summer. I would imagine both would be asking for max. They have the same agent, Bill Duffy. Those extensions wouldn't kick in for another season after this. So they clearly have this, you know, finals right here and next year with two of their three best players being on cheap rookie deals. But once they're not and once Shay gets this, you know, next supermax, which is huge money, they're going to have, you know, apron issues down the line and where they're probably going to have to get off some of their, you know, kind of mid tier type deals. The Hart and Science deal, the Caruso type deal, the Dort deals. What Sam Presti has done is he's built this war chest of first round picks where theoretically the plan would be to replenish under them, which like Casen Wallace is a great example. Right. Casen Wallace is, is going to be on a rookie deal for, for two more seasons after this. He would seem to be kind of in that dork Caruso mold to kind of, you know, expand his role under them. And the idea would be if Pressy can keep using all of his draft capital to keep cheap role players under the stars, because that's, you know, at this point with the league, if you're going to have three guys being paid maxes, like you just don't have money elsewhere.

Jason McIntyre (48:48)

All right, last question. We got about a minute left. I compared SGA to basically James Harden 2.0, just trading the threes for the mid range. Both get to the foul line a ton. They're heavily ISO. They drive to the basket just similar to me. Your thoughts?

Alex Curry (49:04)

Yeah, I mean it's, it's like kind of a controlling, somewhat heliocentric way to play. Now I would say like SJ shares it more. It's more of a, you know, democratic offense than those Rockets teams where it was just park PJ Tucker in the corner, park Trevor Ariza in the corner, pick and rolls every single time. Like that was just more like on a one trick pony that those Those d' Antoni teams where SGA also, it's a variety of the mid range. It's, you know, he could go baseline, he could post you up, he could get to 12ft, he could go to 18. He will shoot the three. He is a three level scorer. It's just that, that extra level, I don't know. Do you like seeing a mid range operator more than just kind of your shoot threes every time type player? Because it is more old school.

Jason McIntyre (49:47)

I'm a three point guy. You know, Curry's my favorite player. I play, play basketball. I love threes. I'm not a mid range guy. I don't know.

Alex Curry (49:54)

Yeah, I mean I, I would say like there's just more variety to the Thunders offensive attack beyond SGA than those Houston teams.

Jason McIntyre (50:03)

Definitely.

Alex Curry (50:03)

And I think that's, you know, matters.

Jason McIntyre (50:05)

Yeah. 100. All right. Anthony Slater. The athletic. Great stuff. Enjoy the games and the series. Thanks a lot, Anthony. Good stuff.

Alex Curry (50:13)

Yep. Thanks Robbie.

Jason McIntyre (50:14)

All right, coming up next, they asked me to rank the top 10 players in this series. Obviously SGA's one, but two, three, four, that was not easy. That's next year.

Colin Cowherd (50:29)

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Jason McIntyre (52:44)

Is an iHeart podcast.