Hour 1 - The Pacers refuse to go away quietly

Summary

Podcast Title: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Host/Authors: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

Episode: Hour 1 - The Pacers Refuse to Go Away Quietly

Release Date: June 20, 2025

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd delves deep into the NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder (OKC) and the Indiana Pacers, while also touching upon significant moments in MLB, WNBA, soccer, and NFL. Co-host Joy Taylor joins Colin to provide insightful commentary and analysis throughout the episode.

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1. NBA Finals: Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Indiana Pacers

Overview of the Series:

Colin Cowherd opens the discussion by analyzing OKC's performance throughout the NBA Finals. He emphasizes that while OKC is a very good team, they fall short of being great due to inconsistencies, especially in high-pressure moments.

• Performance Metrics:
  • Regular Season Dominance: OKC boasted a phenomenal 29-1 record against Eastern teams, averaging a 12.9-point differential per game, setting an NBA record.
  • Defense: Their suffocating defense ranks them fourth in regular-season wins.

Key Insights:

• Home vs. Road Discrepancy: OKC excels at home ([03:27] Colin Cowherd) with a 10-2 home record but struggles on the road with a 5-0 record.

• Player Variance: The youth of OKC introduces significant variance in player performances. For instance, Jalen Williams scored 40 points in Game 5 but plummeted to -40 in Game 6 ([03:27] Colin Cowherd).

• Chet Holmgren’s Role: Despite being a pivotal defensive player, Holmgren has underperformed offensively in the finals, scoring fewer than 10 points in three games ([03:27] Colin Cowherd).

Joy Taylor’s Perspective:

• Highlighted the lack of fire and energy from OKC players like SGA and Alex Caruso ([11:07] Joy Taylor).
• Emphasized that Jalen Williams and pascal Siakam have more experience, providing Indiana with an advantage.

Indiana Pacers' Strengths:

• Coaching Excellence: Rick Carlisle's experience and strategic acumen have been instrumental in guiding the Pacers to the finals.

• Team Composition: Despite being 21st in cap spending, the Pacers boast eight players averaging double figures in scoring, with Obi Toppin emerging as a key scorer despite limited starts ([19:00] Colin Cowherd).

• T.J. McConnell’s Importance: As a crucial ball-handler, McConnell's ability to create space is vital against OKC's relentless perimeter defense ([23:00] Colin Cowherd).

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd ([03:27]): "OKC is very good. They've got those young legs and young energy... But age, youth gives you a huge variance."

• Joy Taylor ([14:25]): "If you're not going to put forth the effort, why am I watching?"

Predictions and Conclusions:

Colin expresses surprise at OKC's blowout loss in Game 6 but maintains optimism for a Game 7 showdown. He praises Tyrese Halliburton for playing despite injuries, considering him a standout and a crucial part of the Pacers' success ([20:13] Colin Cowherd).

Joy concurs, noting the Pacers' resilience and the importance of players like T.J. McConnell in maintaining their championship aspirations ([24:43] Joy Taylor).

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2. MLB Rivalries: Yankees vs. Red Sox & Padres vs. Dodgers

Yankees vs. Red Sox:

Colin briefly touches upon the historic rivalry, underscoring its intensity and the high stakes involved in their matchups.

Padres vs. Dodgers Highlights:

• Recent Game Drama: The ninth inning of the Padres vs. Dodgers game was particularly fiery. A rookie Dodgers pitcher was accused of throwing at Tatis, leading to manager confrontations on the field ([06:47] Colin Cowherd).

• Player Conduct: Shohei Ohtani exemplified sportsmanship despite getting hit by a pitch, shaking hands with the first baseman ([09:51] Joy Taylor).

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd ([06:39]): "I don't think he threw at him. And the managers come out. Dave Roberts... they're dog cussing each other. So I'll be honest, it's baseball at its best."

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3. WNBA Spotlight: Indiana Fever vs. Golden State Valkyrie

Game Analysis:

• Indiana Fever’s Struggles: Led by Caitlin Clark, the Fever faced an uncharacteristic performance, scoring only 11 points in a pivotal loss ([27:05] Joy Taylor).

• Caitlin Clark’s Performance: Clark shot 3 of 14 from the field and over 7 from three-point range, a significant downturn from her usual performance.

Colin’s Take:

He attributes Clark’s performance to the physical and aggressive defense employed by the Valkyries, reminding listeners that even top players like Larry Bird have off nights, emphasizing that consistency is key ([27:53] Colin Cowherd).

Notable Quotes:

• Joy Taylor ([28:40]): "She’s probably starting next year, for the next seven years, will be in her athletic prime."

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4. Soccer Segment: US Men’s National Team vs. Saudi Arabia

Match Overview:

• Final Score: USA beats Saudi Arabia 1-0 with a notable goal from Chris Richards off a set piece ([29:15] Colin Cowherd).

• Team Performance: While the USA secured the win, the team's overall play was deemed lackluster with minimal creativity and depth compared to top international teams.

Analysis:

Colin points out that the current squad lacks the creativity and depth necessary to compete against powerhouse nations like Brazil, Argentina, and England. The absence of key players like Christian Pulisic hampers the team's overall effectiveness ([30:58] Colin Cowherd).

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd ([31:24]): "We do not have the talent pool that other countries have. So if we don't have our... we've talked about this before."

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5. NFL Focus: Minnesota Vikings and JJ McCarthy

Vikings’ Quarterback Woes:

• JJ McCarthy’s Performance: Despite high expectations, McCarthy has not thrown a pass since being drafted 15 months ago, raising concerns about his readiness for the NFL.

Colin’s Critique:

He cautions against the hype surrounding McCarthy, emphasizing that in the NFL, a quarterback needs to make multiple throws per game to showcase their capabilities ([26:05] Colin Cowherd).

Joy’s Input:

She remains optimistic about McCarthy but acknowledges the skepticism due to his limited experience ([26:05] Joy Taylor).

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd ([26:05]): "They asked him to make maybe one to two throws a game. That's not the NFL. That's nothing."

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6. NBA Front Office News: Lakers’ Acquisition by Mark Walter

Lakers’ Ownership Change:

• Mark Walter’s Acquisition: The Dodgers' Mark Walter has purchased the remaining stake in the Lakers, transitioning the team from a "mom and pop" operation to a more business-oriented franchise ([42:12] Colin Cowherd).

Implications:

Colin discusses the positive impact of this move, highlighting that the Lakers will benefit from a expanded scouting department and a more modernized approach to team management.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd ([40:09]): "It's a good move. The Lakers can now finally be run like a real business."

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7. Controversy: Shadower Sanders’ Speeding Violations

Incident Overview:

• Speeding Violations: Shadower Sanders, an NFL player, was caught driving over 100 miles an hour, raising concerns about his maturity and responsibility ([41:10] Colin Cowherd).

Colin’s Stance:

He vehemently criticizes Sanders' actions, asserting that such behavior is inauspicious for a quarterback role in the NFL, where maturity is paramount.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd ([42:12]): "Don't tell me it's not the end of the world... There are jobs where we need you to be a grownup."

• Joy Taylor ([49:49]): "So does this mean I have to stop calling you Coastal Elite Cowherd?"

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8. Additional Sports and Personalities

Upcoming Segments:

• Kenny Pickett Segment: Colin hints at introducing a new segment focusing on NFL player Kenny Pickett starting the following Tuesday ([50:00] Colin Cowherd).

Personal Anecdotes:

Joy and Colin share light-hearted moments, teasing each other and discussing personal preferences, adding a relatable touch to the intense sports analysis.

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, listeners are treated to a comprehensive analysis of the NBA Finals, enriched with insights on other major sports events. Colin and Joy balance critical evaluation with personal opinions, providing a well-rounded perspective on the current sports landscape. Their candid discussions, punctuated with memorable quotes and real-time reactions, make this episode a must-listen for sports enthusiasts seeking in-depth commentary.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• Colin Cowherd ([03:27]): "OKC is very good. They've got those young legs and young energy... But age, youth gives you a huge variance."

• Joy Taylor ([14:25]): "If you're not going to put forth the effort, why am I watching?"

• Colin Cowherd ([42:12]): "Don't tell me it's not the end of the world... There are jobs where we need you to be a grownup."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing an informative overview for those who haven’t listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Joy Taylor]

Just unbelievably bad basketball by OKC. Colin. I mean, I hope you crush him here. I'm waiting. I'm waiting.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. The question, the debate on OKC has been this year, are they. Are they a great team? I mean, they were 29 and 1 against the east in the regular season. 29 and 1. They won on average by 12.9 points a game, NBA record point differential, suffocating defense. Unbelievable at home, fourth most regular season wins ever. Well, it's been confirmed they're not a great team. They're a very good team. In a finals clinching game, they had their lowest output of the season offensively and the most turnovers. And again, a 36, 9 run by Indy. The hell. OKC is very good. They've got those young legs and young energy and sometimes, you know, man, they. They got a number one score, they got size and they got depth. But age, youth gives you a huge variance. Jalen Williams, 40 points in Game 5, minus 40 in Game 6. That's the variance you get not only as a team collectively, but individual players. So, like Chet Holmgren, three times in the finals alone, he's had fewer than 10 points. Like, where. Where's his offense? Well, he probably should have stayed in college a year more. He's. He's a young player, still good defensively. But this is what you get at home. OKC will get these leads and they. And they play more aggressively with a lead. They're a little like the Baltimore Ravens, right? Baltimore's got Lamar. They got SGA at home. Does anybody get more blowout wins last couple of years than Baltimore and okc? No. But if they're playing from behind the Ravens and the Thunder, sometimes that offense dries up, and it did last night. So it's not an excuse. I'm not making excuses for Oklahoma City. I was shocked at the blowout loss, but it is a reason. They're the youngest finals team in 48 years. And I said, I'll take him in game seven. But just like having young kids, you put them in the car for a roadie, things get squirrely. Are we there yet? No, it's game six. Be patient. And it wasn't good. If you look at the home splits, OKC not only is 10 at 2 at home and 500 on the road, they're plus 247 at home and minus 67 on the road. So we've been talking about this. Oklahoma City's bench, great at home, rotational players, great at home. Indiana, they've had these, you know, the T.J. mcConnell's. Those kind of players are unbelievable at home. But history of the NBA is young teams can struggle in the postseason when they get uncomfortable. So again I'm going to take. I thought they'd win last night. The fact that Halliburton played and played well is shocking. I'm going to get to that after the break. That's and they deserve a ton of credit. I will get more to that. But all the pressure, even though it's at home, all the pressure is going to be on okc. And young players with pressure can shrink. Here's SGA after the humbling loss in game six.

[Joy Taylor]

The way I see it is we suck tonight. We have to learn the lessons and we have one game for everything, for.

[Colin Cowherd]

Everything we've worked for and so do they. And the better team Sunday will win. All right, so I will get to the Pacers, give them their flowers after the break. But I got to talk about once again last night. I don't want to hear Yankees and Red Sox the best, easily the best baseball rivalry, Padres, Dodgers. And it got feisty again last night in the ninth inning. Now a lot of the crowd had filed out, but in the ninth inning the Dodgers had a rookie pitcher clearly didn't throw at Tatis who dramatically crumples to the ground when he got hit on the wrist. I get that it hurts, but it's a rookie pitcher making his debut at home. I don't think he threw at him. And the managers come out. Dave Roberts, actually I think at one point bumped Mike Shield. They're dog cussing each other. So I'll be honest, it's baseball at its best. I feel like you saw a lot more of this in the 80s sometimes in a tedious long regular season. Intensity and heat equal interest. And we saw the two biggest stories this week have been Caitlin Clark in the scrum and this why sports fans want you to care as much as they do. And the Padres and the Dodgers. This is real. So then in the bottom of that inning, the ninth, the Padres clearly throw in retaliation after this. Tatis getting hit. That's top of the 9th. Then they go to the bottom of the 9th and Shohei Ohtani gets plunked on a 3, 0 pitch. 100 miles an hour in the back. Yeah, it hurts. Ohtani. Nothing new. He's the best at this, too. Acted with class, went down and shakes the first baseman's hand. Classy organization. He acts with class. Voice of reason. But here's the thing. When I was a kid, baseball had a ton of personality. Reggie Jackson, Pete Rose, Mickey Rivers, Mark Fidrich, Al Raboski. And the players leaned into it. They leaned into it. Everybody had big personalities. And then something weird happened. The sport got very pious and very precious. There's a way to play the game and the unwritten rules. Get out of here. Give me a break. At sports. And all of a sudden, for about a 20 year period, it felt like there were locker room governors and locker room statesmen. They're attacking their own Bryce Harper. And it did not help the sport. Finally, Rob Manfred and the sport started saying, guys, lean into this stuff. It's sports, it's not Congress. There isn't a way to play the game, play it with intensity. Sometimes intensity boils over into throwing it, guys, but this is good for sports. I know, I know you don't want to hear it, but the Dodgers, Padres, it's authentic, it's intense, it's old school, it's feisty, it's a little petty. I'm here for it. And here's Dave Roberts after, as he.

[Joy Taylor]

Comes out and he's yelling at me and staring me down. That bothers me because, to be quite frank, that's the last thing I want. I'm taking starters out of the game and, you know, trying to, you know, get this game over and get this.

[Colin Cowherd]

Kid a couple innings.

[Joy Taylor]

And so that's why I felt, you know, I took that personal.

[Colin Cowherd]

So we've had a very, very interesting week in sports. The Caitlin Clark scrum. Fascinating. Everybody was going to be okay. Don't overreact. And again this, when these two teams meet, they throw at each other. Dugout, spill out, managers, bump, everybody's going to be okay. This is what sports fans want. They want you to care. They want passion, they want heat, they want intensity. Dave Roberts is such a nice guy. He's out there finger pointing and I, I just think it's great. I think it's great for sports. It's too bad half the fans had already poured out the ninth Inning. So, J. Mac, let's. Let's go back to the finals. I was absolutely surprised. I thought it would be a close game. OKC would pull away. Were you surprised that Halliburton played?

[Joy Taylor]

I was stunned. I mean, he didn't play poorly. He was fine.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, he hit his threes.

[Joy Taylor]

But, Colin, something you just said resonated with me. It's like, PE Fans care deeply about baseball and the. And the fighting. Because the players care.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Joy Taylor]

Care deeply about Caitlyn Clark because the players care. Are you seeing that care? And that one. I didn't see that from okc. You could have choked them out. Last night, ended the series. And I saw no fire, no brimstone sga. Just walking around like it was a February NBA game. I didn't see that killer instinct. Alex Caruso, I mean, he was -33. Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Joy Taylor]

Where's the energy? Where's the care?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, here's the thing. If you're a great team, if you're Shaq and Kobe or the MJ Bulls, we have to remember, you know, because. Because this was really in the heart of when I was a young sportscaster. Michael Jordan and the Bulls had closeout games a couple of times against Gary Payton and the Sonics and delivered duds.

[Joy Taylor]

We're up three nothing. I mean, I think that's a little different. This was like, hey, three, two, let's close them out. But, I mean, these guys have been pesky.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, you have to remember, we tend to romanticize this. Steph Curry and the warriors have had duds in big games. I mean, listen, the warriors could not close out at home. LeBron James and the team that won.

[Joy Taylor]

Like, that was the Draymond suspension game.

[Colin Cowherd]

But they got blown out three times in that series. Teams have bad games, and those teams are closer to great teams. What we have now in the NBA, the Celtics team that won, the Denver team that won, the. These two teams, these are very, very good teams. Just like my Sonics and my blazers in the 70s. Very good teams. They're not great.

[Joy Taylor]

They're not great.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, they're not great. And we've maybe only had four or five great teams. I thought a team that was great, that didn't win a championship was the Barkley suns that were scoring 125 before the Avalanche of threes. I mean, they were literally changed the game that. I mean, it was an incredible team to watch. And they didn't win because they faced. You know, it's like Tiger in his prime. They faced Michael Jordan. So these are very good teams. And I think Oklahoma City because remember, Indy's got a lot of older dudes. Siakam has been around a while. Pascal Siakam been around a while. Carlisle, the coach been around a while. Even the coaching staff with OKC is young. And so a indies talents better than anybody wants to admit. They got a more experienced coach. And the truth is there's two things working against OKC last night. They're a very good team. They're not a great team. And they're the youngest team in 48 years in the finals. And you are seeing this wild vary. I mean, I was shocked. But OKC in this series has had four or five atrocious quarters. I mean, Michael Jordan's team could lose. I mean that's. I've seen a couple of second quarters. I mean, just think about that 36 to nine run.

[Joy Taylor]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

So that is crazy.

[Joy Taylor]

Let me ask you it so in game five, OKC had 27 steals and blocks. They were everywhere. Hellacious defensively. They didn't get their first steal last night until midway through the third quarter. That to me says yes, we don't really care. We're not locked in. We're like, that's just lack of effort, Colin. And if you're not going to put forth the effort, why am I watching? I didn't watch the fourth quarter. I'm like, no.

[Colin Cowherd]

One thing, that one thing that is clear. OKC is not a great offensive team. They're a great defensive team with remarkable depth. So they need the defense to be humming to win. Okay? They're not a team that can play bad defense and win. Like they're not. This is not the Showtime Lakers where you could win 130, 124 regularly. Okay? This team wins with defense, block steals. That generates offense. Indianapolis is a better defensive team than people give them credit for. The Pacers are. But they don't have to play great defense to win. They have amazing offensive nights. OKC is led by defense. That has to be great. And when it's not, I mean, they had them. I don't know what the stretch was, but OKC had a stretch last night. It may have been six minutes. They had one field goal or I mean, they just dried up. Yeah, totally.

[Joy Taylor]

Let me ask you real quick. The coach, dagnaut, we kind of criticized him for in game one, totally changing his starting lineup. Did you notice last night, small potatoes. They're down 20 at the half. Hey, I'm going to start. Alex Caruso in the second half had not done that and I felt like that was a bit of a reach. Oh, we need a spark. We need energy. Colin. I just wonder Carlisle is a better coach we would agree with. Is Dagnal in his head a little bit searching for answers because you know every move he makes, Carlisle's countering and it just takes a little while to figure it out. I wonder if he's going to change something for game seven.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, we don't get many game sevens. You can say what you want about ratings in the series. It's going to be an all timer. We don't get a lot of game sevens. Can't wait. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered. Don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Joy Taylor]

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[Colin Cowherd]

And resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds. Required bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG co audio. All right, welcome back. Now let's give the Indiana Pacers their flowers. First of all, the fact that Tyrese Halliburton played. He was a game time decision and played pretty well. He found his 3 second and assists. He had the highest plus minus. I thought he played pretty well. He's clearly not at 100%, but man, that's, that's, that takes some courage, man. You can get, you can really injure yourself. So the fact that he played, and I thought he played pretty well is one thing. The other thing is if the Pacers win on, on Sunday, it's going to be the most unique champion ever. Think about this. They're 21st in cap spending. They have eight guys averaging double figures, none average 20. Obi Toppin started four games all season, all season. And I like Obie Toppin. He's hit some big threes. He started four games all season. He's our third leading scorer in the finals. What this team is, is brilliantly coached. They've got, as I said earlier in the week, they've got a variety of shapes and sizes and different style players. And Rick Carlisle is one of the really bright guys in this league. He knows the levers to pull. I think this idea. OKC is young. There are really good young players on Indiana, but Miles Turner and Pascal Siakam, they're not kids. So I don't want to hear anybody outside of the state of Indiana saying, I saw this one coming. It's, you know, Bob Dylan's not from Indiana, but this, this team does feel a little bit like a complete unknown. Let's be totally honest here. You didn't, you didn't have Indiana clobbering Cleveland and Milwaukee. Nobody in New York thought they'd beat the Knicks. Did we really think this thing would go seven, especially after Halliburton got hurt. So the other thing that's really crucial, T.J. mcConnell, the, the, this, the little guy, he's very important. Especially if Halliburton's not at 100% because of the way OKC defends. They're relentless on the perimeter. You got to have ball handlers. You have got to have ball handlers. So if Halliburton plays and McConnell, you got a shot because he creates space. He beats people off the dribble, he's hard to trap. So the little guy becomes really, really important for them. You got to have at least two high end ball handlers that can create space to just keep OKC off your back, because they can get especially OKC at home. Man, you got to create some space. You got to be able to break down that defense. So last night, the Pacers had them both tip of the cap to Halliburton, who's becoming my favorite player in the league. And we got a game seven. Here's Hallie after. I just look at it as, you know, I want to be out there to compete with my brothers. You know, these are guys that I'm willing to go to war with, and we've had such a special year and we have a special bond as a group. And, you know, I think I'd beat myself up if I didn't give it a chance, you know, and, you know, I just wanted to be out there and fight, you know, I know that athletes are all millionaires, and sometimes they're not relatable or likable. I find the Pacers as likable as any NBA team. I mean, think about this. They're in game seven of the Finals. Their point guard was voted on by players as the most overrated player in the league. Obi Toppins now their number three scorer. He didn't start this year four times. 21st in cap spending. Miles Turner sometimes has been a complete offensive no show. Little TJ McConnell's become crucial, and it's a. It's a weird mix of long guys, young guys, older guys. At the top of next hour, I'll give you the five things that I feel I can bank on in order for game seven. There's some things I have no idea. I did not predict a 36 to 9 indie run last night, but there are five things that I believe. I'll give you my one through five that I think one I know will. One or two I know I'll get after that. Here's. By the way, here's T.J. mcConnell's dad after. I'm tell you right now, he's a warrior.

[Joy Taylor]

You're right.

[Colin Cowherd]

It doesn't matter how tall you are. That's right. That's your fault. The heart of a champion. Yes. Yes.

[Joy Taylor]

What do you think of his performance tonight?

[Colin Cowherd]

Excellent. Just disappointing.

[Joy Taylor]

Missed two foul shots. In the beginning, I kept saying, man.

[Colin Cowherd]

I wish you'd have made those two foul shots.

[Joy Taylor]

But he recovered and we won the game.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I can forget about the foul Shots.

[Joy Taylor]

And it can happen in Game 7.

[Colin Cowherd]

We're going to OKC to try to.

[Joy Taylor]

Win a world championship, and my son's.

[Colin Cowherd]

A part of it. Yeah. He's not just a part of it. He's become an incredibly crucial part of it. And good for him. And good for the Pacers. Can't wait for Sunday. J. Mac with the news. No, no, no.

[Joy Taylor]

Turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herd line news.

[Joy Taylor]

All right, let's start with a team that's become polarizing, and that is the Minnesota Vikings. Colin, I don't know how or when or where it happened, but JJ McCarthy has become a lightning rod here for the Vikings in the off season. Both of us are high on them, but here's Dante Culpepper, a former Viking, saying regarding McCarthy, he looks great. He has that it factor. I don't think it'll be a hard transition for him in the NFL. Culpepper later added, I think he's gonna tear up the league. I don't know if we're looking for, like, the next guy or we're looking for offseason stories, but every week there's something with J.J. mcCarthy, who has not thrown a pass since he was drafted, what, 15 months ago?

[Colin Cowherd]

And you got to be careful. Like this. This is the silly season, right? Like. Like the. You're. You're getting all these reports. Some of it you can buy into. I mean, Shador's accuracy. I know it's against backups, but he was throwing the backup, so, like, that's impressive. And you do see guy. I mean, I've seen Cam Ward footage, and you're like, oh, dude, he. He. That dude is it. He's got it. And there are guys that blow you away. I mean, I will get to this later. Cooper flag had a tryout. You know, he had his sort of workout with the Mavericks yesterday, and they're like, oh, he's better than we thought. Like, you can see some stuff even if you're not competing against anybody. You're just doing a workout for an NBA team. You can see things, but, you know, it's a whole different ball game. I've. I've said about J.J. mcCarthy. Played with a lead, great O line, amazing running game, best coach in every game, rarely trailed. Asked to make maybe one to two throws a game. That's not the NFL. That. That's. That is nothing. Even if you have a good team, you gotta make about eight throws a game. If you're Mahomes, you got seven, eight plays. You gotta be special. I Haven't seen it yet.

[Joy Taylor]

Well, how could you? He hasn't played it down in the NFL. I mean, you know. But let's move to the next story, which is the wnba. Colin Late night Indiana Fever versus the Golden State Valkyrie. There was no drama, but it was a pretty good game. I actually watched this. The Fever led by 12 in the third quarter and then they just went cold. And Caitlin Clark, she had a rough one 3 of 14 from the field, over 7 from 3. Only 11 points in what was an 11 point loss. I gotta ask you, Colin, you know, everybody on planet Earth made a big deal out of what happened in their last game. And I wonder if you think it got in her head just a little bit because this was an uncharacteristic performance.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, no, I think, I think the team she faced last night is very physical and they lean on defense and three point shooters, including Steph Curry had bad shooting nights. Larry Bird had some clunkers. You know, I remember once Larry Bird, I think had an eight point game. He just, you know, so it's, it'd be different if you like should Shaq, you know, he was close to the basket. You're bigs historically, Kareem, you kind of knew what you were getting. Nobody could stop the skyhook. If you rely on 24 footers, you have bad nights. And especially when you face teams that are very aggressive in the perimeter and they're physical and I, you know, she's. It's. It just happens. It's it. And for the record, beginning of year two, she's still not in her prime. She, she's probably starting next year, for the next seven years will be in her athletic prime.

[Joy Taylor]

Yeah, it looked like they were trapping a little bit and they were defending her out to 30ft. They're like, no more of these bombs because that gets a team invigorated. It was actually a good scene last night. I'm sure you tuned in to Amazon Prime. Final story. Colin is to soccer, where the US Men's national team. Listen, they weren't spectacular, but they got the job done. Here's a great goal by Chris Richards off a set piece. Lovely stuff. USA beats Saudi Arabia 1 0. I thought USA looked good. Not everybody agreed. You know, they want us to beat them down like five nothing. But here's the hero, Chris Richards on the performance.

[Colin Cowherd]

We had a few problems in the first half building out. They adjusted well. So at halftime we just needed to get the right people on the ball. I think that's what we did, you know, we didn't need an extra person in the build up. So we adjusted that had more people in the pockets and helped us out in the long run. And we need it tonight. You know, it was a tough game against a tough opponent. Props to them, but that's coca ka for you. Sometimes you gotta get physical, sometimes you gotta get nasty. I think that's exactly what we did tonight. I think he's worthy of making the World cup team, but he's probably the only guy right now on this kind of backup substitute roster that's a World cup team member. And I think what you noticed this last night when we don't have Christian Pulisic. Pulisic. And we don't have Weston McKinney in the midfield. We are not creative, we are not clever. We are, we just don't have the ball skill. We just don't. We do not have the talent pool that other countries have. So if we don't have our, you know, we've talked about this before. J. Mac with the Dallas Cowboys. We're like, they're top heavy. We don't have Brazil, Argentina, England, Germany. We don't have the depth of talent. Their 12th best player is much better than ours. Netherlands. I think our top six to seven, maybe, maybe top six are really, really as good as we've ever had. None of them are here. And you saw it last night, the lack of explosion, the lack of creativity. There was just, it was just a lot of nothing. And I. And that's not a knock on these guys. But these are not World cup players for us.

[Joy Taylor]

Not yet. Tyler Adams, to be fair, did come off the bench and look pretty good. And I think it was the final 20 minutes. Listen, they were not spectacular. A couple missed opportunities. I only saw one or two defensive breakdowns. But again, this is, this is like not even the B team column. This is really like the C team. Would you agree? Like.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I, again, there's one guy, Richards is the one player here that has a chance to make the World cup team. He's not guaranteed, but I think he probably does. Okay, so you're just, we are just looking at, you know, everybody's saying Chadur Sanders is throwing the backups. These are backups. So don't expect spectacular results. Saudi Arabia, as you pointed out all week, that's a real team. Saudi Arabia is a real team.

[Joy Taylor]

So we got Haiti next on Sunday, 7 o' clock on 7 Eastern on big Fox. I just for the record, we're going to probably play our D team against Haiti because we've advanced obviously in the pool. So Landon Donovan pointed out, like we're going to see even more guys. Pochettino still understanding who we've got. You know, you don't just come into the roster and know every single player instantly.

[Colin Cowherd]

So in Mauricio Pochettino, his history with Tottenham Hotspur, his history is he likes youth, he's aggressive and he likes young guys. And he just got the job. So whether or not he lasts, you know, because it's always the coach's fault, it's always the manager's fault with the United States men's national team, but he's looking at it as I'm going to be here for four or five years. So I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to develop these young guys and that's what America needs. We have done a really good job as a country over the last 10 years to develop five or six really good players good enough to go to Europe and flourish. America and the people of USA Soccer deserve credit for that. This is the best group of talent we have had ever. But now the next stage for us as a country is get our seventh through 14th player to be at least not a dramatic drop off from one through seven. That's what Netherlands has or Germany or England. We got a drop off. And by the way, it's all steps, it's all stages. Last night you can just see the lack of creativity and it's just they're just not as talented players. So I think we USA Soccer deserves a ton of credit. Again, we held England scoreless in the last World Cup. We get out of the group stage, we deserve credit. But you can see the stage that we're going to need all hands on deck to be a viable top 8, 1012 team in the World Cup. The world's getting better at this stuff, not just us. J Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. Oh, our staff does such good work here. Larry Bird scored eight points in back to back finals games in 1981. I knew I was right. That was the year I was a junior in high school. Larry Bird scored eight points in back to back finals. In 81 they still won the title. But you know, great players have bad games. So. So this week, pretty big story. The Lakers sold the bus family which had this had been talked about for years. The Dodger group, the Mark Walter group bought you know like 25% of the Lakers years ago. And he was probably waiting. Mark Walters, very sharp guy. He was probably waiting to see what the new NBA contract was going to be. And when it came out to be 76 billion over 11 years, Mark Walter, seize the moment. It's not a shock. That's when they went, okay, we'll buy the whole team, right? Because now we got the Garrett now. Yeah, pay a little bit more for it when that contract comes out. But there are much greater benefits revenue wise with a new TV contract, a lot of money. So I've been saying this for years. The Lakers are two mom and pop. It's very interesting. A story today came out. Is this Ramona Shelburne, who. I'm not sure who gave you this, this story. It's very good story, said one source inside the league. It's a good move. The Lakers can now finally be run like a real business. Said another exec. It makes sense the way the league is going. I don't think they could afford to be in this business. It just costs too much day to day. Another front office type said, listen, for years it was Mitch Kupchak, good guy, and that was it. A league's horse said, and now it's Rob Pelinka and that's it. No disrespect at all, but there is a sense they will expand R and D and expand the scouting department. And to give you an example, the Lakers or mom and Pop, they literally applied for federal relief, small business relief during COVID I mean that. And they got like 5 million bucks. Also, they were the only NBA team that didn't go to the Sloan analytics conference in 2013. So they've just. The league's getting smarter, they're getting smaller. And so this is going to be really, really good. Here's the other thing. I know there's a lot of LeBron haters out there. LeBron kind of saved the brand. I got to be honest with you. There was a point. 2013 to 2017. Do you remember this? Did the worst record in the league. The worst at the end of Kobe's run. They're bad. So six years, no playoffs. So LeBron came in and had a little Apple feel. Remember when Apple was irrelevant, Steve Jobs came back, the iPhone, it was like, okay, big brand now relevant again. LeBron has made them relevant. They, they were the last couple of years of Kobe. It was like you were just looking for nice Kobe nights, like winning wasn't a thing. So I think LeBron did a solid for the organization and I think this happens all the time. I think I've seen This in the NFL happen. The NFL has gotten smarter. There's so many good young offensive coaches that these old school defensive coaches, they're just sometimes they're not quick enough. So many bad offensive lines in the NFL. A lot of them are tied to defensive coaches. And I feel like NBA front offices now. Sam Presti and Brad Stevens. There are so many smart young executives in the NBA. Mom and pop will not do. Steve Ballmer. You, you, you don't. I don't have to love every move the Clippers make. They have a massive scouting department. Lakers don't. Philadelphia Eagles, massive scouting department. Cincinnati Bengals run like a mom and pop. They don't. So I think this is a huge win for the Lakers. You know, I. Yeah, I always hear this. Oh, they're another billionaire. The oligarchs. You know, I don't love Elon Musk all the time. Creates a lot of jobs. So does Jeff Bezos. Okay? And money's real. They're not going anywhere. So Premier League teams are owned by billionaires, too. And the worst owners in my lifetime, overwhelmingly, you know, Ted Steppe and Marge Schott have not been venture capitalists. What you need an influx of money. And the Dodgers have a massive scouting department. And this is what I've been saying about the Cowboys, the Bengals, the Lakers. They feel outdated. They feel small leagues are getting smarter. You don't want to get smaller. Trustandwill.com makes it easy. The leaders in creating personalized trust and wills to protect your assets, legacy and loved ones. Do the right thing. Protect your fam. Visit Trust and will.com today. Check it out for total peace of mind. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, that's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. 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[Colin Cowherd]

If you're an inventory specialist in a warehouse, Grainger knows you've probably faced a situation like this before your forklift, your facility's workhorse is leaking hydraulic fluid and with a full schedule of shipments on the docket, this has the potential to cause a major delay of game. But you're not worried. You're prepared for this type of situation and you have an ace in the hole. Grainger Grainger offers professional grade products for every industry from hydraulic oils and hoses so much more. Plus, fast, dependable delivery. So you can be confident that you'll have the product you need on hand to fix that forklift and get it back in the game. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Joy Taylor]

Tomorrow it's baseball night in America with two of the league's biggest bats on deck as Pete Alonso and the Mets take on Kyle Schwarber in the Phillies, where the Royals battle the Padres. Check local listings for the game in your area tomorrow, 7 Eastern on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

I know I said I didn't want to talk about Shadour Sanders anymore. I have sold myself stock. But now we have a reaction to the multiple speeding violations. He went over 100 miles an hour and got busted. We found out either before or after that he also got busted for going 91. It's just dangerous. It's just dumb to drive that fast. And no, I've never driven 100 miles an hour. I don't think it's that hard because I, I, I don't want to end up, you know, blowing up somebody's car. You know, bad things happen when you drive that fast. So the stories came out yesterday. Shador Sanders had, you know, I made some bad choices. There's body cam footage. There's a column today the Browns could cut him for less than speeding tickets. So I have no doubt in my mind that Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefanski would strongly consider cutting him if he was not a quarterback and if not, the owner wanted him drafted. So Jimmy Haslam's a bad owner. 13 years, last place eight times that. That's hard to do in this league. It is hard to do in that league. He did I ever, did you ever hear that story? I got to read this story to you. This is a true story. Cleveland spent many hours and resources scouting Teddy Bridgewater. In one particular case, an analytical study of quarterbacks cost a team 100 grand. Told them draft Bridgewater. Jimmy Haslam became convinced that fans in Cleveland wanted Manziel. After I'm reading this, a homeless man said to the owner, draft Manzel. That's, that's why you have eight last place finishes. He's impulsive. He's, he's arguably the worst owner. Now that Dan Snyder's out, he's the worst owner and he wanted this draft pick. We all saw the reaction of Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefanski when the draft pick was made. They, they couldn't hide their lack of enthusiasm. So I'm kind of fascinated. How's he dealing with this? Because he whiffed on Manziel, DeSean Watson, he acknowledged it's a league embarrassment. Baker Mayfield was the best of those picks by far, but he wasn't quite mature enough. So once again, the impulsive owner and the bad owner gets in the way of success. So, and I, and I said this yesterday. He's not mature enough to be a star franchise quarterback. We had questions whether Shador Sanders was good enough. Now, I know he's not mature enough, but can we stop with the pandering and the strawman arguments? Here's one of the straw man arguments. Not the worst thing in the world. Who said it is? We're not asking him to be thrown in jail. No, nobody's saying it's the worst thing in the world. But there are jobs, and this may be unfair, where you need to be really mature at 23 years old. Man or woman. Doctor. Sorry, can't come in with a hangover before four big surgeries. Right? There are just jobs where we need you to be a grownup. So don't. Don't tell me it's not the end of the world. We. Nobody's saying it's the end of the world. Here's the other thing, bro. I've driven 100 miles an hour many times. Yeah, dude, you work at Chipotle. You are not a potential quarterback for a $6 billion franchise, okay? Jaden Daniels is the starting quarterback. Jobs are on the line with Jaden Daniels and Caleb Williams. They're on the line. So I don't care that you drove 100 miles an hour, which I would never recommend and I never have. I've gotten a speeding ticket 30 years ago. But, you know, part of being a quarterback is kind of this unfair reality that you got to be more mature sooner than your buddies. So I don't want to hear about you driving 100 miles an hour. Even if you have a good job, you're not a quarterback of a $6 billion franchise. Even if you got a job as an attorney, you're not a partner at 23 years old. Even if you get a job, you're an intern to be a doctor. You're not the chief of staff man, your chief of staff, your quarterback in the NFL, that is a big boy job. So, guys, saying it's not the worst thing in the world, we do not see what it is. And I've done it a hundred times. You're not vying to be a quarterback in the NFL. And so I've Said this for years. I don't love the Wonderlic test and all that stuff, but there's a reason you do these interviews. Will Levis turn some people off during interviews? Shadour Sanders reportedly turned some people off during interviews. That's why they do them. They've seen your tape, they've seen you move, they've seen your arm, they've seen your touchdowns. Can you be a franchise quarterback again? If he's driving 100 miles an hour and he's a cornerback or a mike linebacker, I don't love it. But I, I, and I wrote about this in my first book. It's different. Certain jobs get the corner office. You know, it's like when you, There's a difference. I, I hear this argument all the time from people at the other network especially. It's, it's, it's, hey, coaches leave. Why can't players leave transfer portal? First of all, coaches in power 5 conferences, football coaches don't leave that much. They're often fired. They don't leave very much. Secondly, a coach is different than a player. A player is 19 years old, a coach is 50. A coach is responsible at the college level for everybody in the program. Himself, his staff, the kids. A player is responsible for himself. They're not equals. The bosses at Fox get pension plans. I don't. Nor should I. My boss, Eric Shanks is responsible for everybody in the sports department. I'm responsible for this microphone. Right. I shouldn't get what they get. Okay, like, so that's the way I look at quarterback. Of all the players on a football team, it's just way more important. It's just, you know, you're a gunner on special teams. We're not building around you. Even a great running back. They, I mean, Derek Henry, Titans love them. They're like, yeah, we're going to move off him. You don't move off elite quarterbacks very often. Derrick Henry, they're like, we don't want to pay him. Giants, Saquon Barkley. And we're not sure we're going to let him go to arrival. You're not doing that. You're not letting Jalen hurts next year go to the Giants. Right? Like quarterbacks different. So before you rush to say it's not the end of the world. Nobody's saying that. Nobody's saying that. Secondly, dude, me and my buddies do it all the time for any infraction, doesn't matter. That's not relative to what quarterback. And it's unfair. I've said before, it's unfair how mature you have to be at 23. I wasn't mature enough to be an NFL quarterback at 21. 22 years old. I got there about 54 years old. Okay? So I. I know it's hard, and I know it's unfair, but those two arguments are silly. And I don't care what random dude does. I mean, I don't think anybody should drive 100 miles an hour. Or 90, for that matter. Okay, I'm all worked up. I'm all worked up. Yeah, my. My bosses get things I don't get. I don't. I don't get a fly on the big bird flying commercial. The bosses, they're going to that different airport where they have, like, shrimp. Okay? I'm at the airport like everybody else getting a sub. They're at the airport where it's got, like, a private driveway and a gate. You go in and, you know, people are bringing you, like, tartar sauce and, you know, the best fish in the house. I don't go to that airport.

[Joy Taylor]

So does this mean I have to stop calling you Coastal Elite cowherd? Goodness gracious. But I do like how you had a. I'm taking a sabbatical from chador, and it lasted, like, 21 hours.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, okay, I will admit I'm gonna start my Kenny Pickett segment. Start Tuesday.

[Joy Taylor]

Oh, wow. Appointment television. Kenny Pickett. Oh, I can't wait. I'm sorry. Super bowl champion Kenny Pickett. Right? We gotta call him that because he's got a ring.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, sure. You go ahead and do that. You go ahead and call him that. The. Oh, I. Hey, Coming up next hour, I don't know if you guys heard about this. I always love stories like this. You know the Ledge? I remember when Penny Hardaway broke into the NBA and he had a workout with the Orlando Magic, and people were just like, is the greatest workout in the history of workouts. I'm fascinated by that stuff. They do documentaries on stuff like that. You know, like when the. The dream team lost to the college kids. I love docum that. So apparently Cooper flag Mavericks workout is something. It was something. And I'm gonna plant my flag. Oh, I didn't even mean to do that. Cooper flag. I'm planting my Cooper flag. Next summer is here. And you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry, A box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No A box of fine wines? Yes, Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. BMW didn't just design an electric suv. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With a BMW IX, you'll experience unmatched power, utility, spaciousness, versatility. My favorite feature Cloud based navigation, monitors charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease. BMW lets performance do the talking and the Scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail. American Public University is the number one provider of education to our military and veterans in this country. They offer something truly unique special rates and grants for the entire family, making education affordable not just for those who serve, but also for their loved ones. If you have a military or veteran family member and are looking for affordable, high quality education, APU is the place for you. Visit Apu Apus Edu Military to learn more. That's APU APUS Edumilitary. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a Paychex company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.comleadership to learn more. That's paycor.comleaders this is an iHeart podcast.