Hour 1 - Thunder Bounceback

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Episode: Hour 1 - Thunder Bounceback
Release Date: June 9, 2025

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1. Introduction to Live Broadcast

Timestamp: [02:53]

The episode officially kicks off with Jason McIntyre welcoming listeners back to a live segment of "The Herd." He sets the stage for a dynamic discussion, bringing in insights from other hosts like Dan Patrick and Matt Hasselbeck.

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2. NBA Playoffs: Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Indiana Pacers Series

Timestamp: [02:43 - 06:48]

Key Discussion Points:

• Series Dynamics: Jason McIntyre critiques the seven-game NBA series between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers, labeling it as "businesslike" and lacking in star power.

  "This series feels small... It's a forgetful business like series for OKC." ([03:23])

• Team Performance: McIntyre highlights the consistent performance of Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) and the young talent in OKC, juxtaposed against Indiana's strategic comebacks.

  "SGA's game is very businesslike... It's not dynamic, it's not flashy." ([05:15])

• Lack of Engagement: The hosts express that without standout personalities or dramatic moments, the series fails to captivate the audience.

  "We need a Draymond Green in this series... It needs somebody that's a little off center." ([06:00])

Notable Quote:

"You can't just throw the first punch. You got to try to throw all the punches all night." – Shai Gilgeous-Alexander ([06:48])

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3. Aaron Rodgers' Move to the Pittsburgh Steelers

Timestamp: [07:05 - 17:16]

Key Discussion Points:

• Rodgers' Transition: Jason McIntyre analyzes Aaron Rodgers' controversial move to the Steelers, questioning its feasibility and highlighting Rodgers as the Steelers' third-choice quarterback.

  "Aaron's career is ending the way a lot of careers end for relatives and musicians and actors, that the hat they wear becomes a little bit more tinfoil." ([10:45])

• Quarterback Dynamics: The discussion delves into the unpredictability Rodgers brings to the Steelers, contrasting him with other league quarterbacks.

  "You can't have weird. Head coaches and quarterbacks can't be weird." ([09:30])

• Impact on the Steelers: The hosts debate whether Rodgers can elevate the Steelers to a championship contender, considering their current roster and Rodgers' leadership style.

  "If Justin Fields were given similar opportunities, the Steelers would be overjoyed." ([16:00])

Notable Quote:

"They are businesslike. They are a businesslike organization." – Jason McIntyre ([03:27])

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4. Shador Sanders and Cleveland Browns' Quarterback Situation

Timestamp: [17:53 - 32:05]

Key Discussion Points:

• Quarterback Competition: McIntyre explores the Browns' quarterback options, emphasizing Shador Sanders' potential despite his current underdog status.

  "Shador Sanders has two things going for him... the owner is starving for a star quarterback." ([22:12])

• Team's Weaknesses: The Browns' roster weaknesses and challenging early schedule are highlighted, suggesting opportunities for Sanders to shine.

  "Cleveland's roster is the weakest in the division and the early schedule is brutal." ([18:52])

• Owner's Influence: James Haslam's impulsive management style and his history of draft decisions play a crucial role in Sanders' opportunity.

  "Jimmy Haslam is the reason that Cleveland finally drafted Shador Sanders." ([22:12])

Notable Quote:

"This is how the league works. The owner is desperately looking for star power." – Jason McIntyre ([22:12])

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5. Lamar Jackson's Off-Season Activity and Commitment

Timestamp: [26:09 - 28:04]

Key Discussion Points:

• OTAs Attendance: The conversation addresses Lamar Jackson missing several Offseason Team Activities (OTAs), with opinions on its impact on his commitment.

  "He's in his prime. He's totally committed." – Jason McIntyre ([27:18])

• Team Dynamics: Discussion on how Jackson's familiarity with the team offsets his absence from OTAs, emphasizing his role in the Baltimore Ravens.

  "He knows the system and the coach and the staff, it just doesn't bother me." – McIntyre ([28:04])

• Contrast with Peers: Comparison with other quarterbacks like Mahomes and Allen who maintain high levels of OTAs attendance.

  "If Mahomes misses an OTA, people still trust him." ([27:25])

Notable Quote:

"He's a two-time MVP, just no show." – Dan Patrick ([27:56])

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6. Giannis Antetokounmpo and Potential Trade Speculations

Timestamp: [29:26 - 32:05]

Key Discussion Points:

• Trade Rumors: The hosts discuss ongoing rumors about Giannis potentially demanding a trade, and the skepticism surrounding such moves.

  "Is he going to demand a trade? Will he not?" – Dan Patrick ([30:27])

• Comparisons with Kawhi Leonard: Drawing parallels between Giannis' situation and Kawhi Leonard's trade to the Toronto Raptors.

  "Do you think someone's willing to roll the dice for Giannis for two years?" – Dan Patrick ([31:19])

• Impact on the Bucks: Speculation on how Giannis leaving would affect the Milwaukee Bucks' championship potential.

  "Only one team can call themselves NBA champs." ([40:22])

Notable Quote:

"It's about getting an all-Star back." – Jason McIntyre ([32:32])

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7. Knicks Firing Tom Thibodeau and Team Management

Timestamp: [32:05 - 37:34]

Key Discussion Points:

• Coaching Change: Analysis of the Knicks' decision to fire head coach Tom Thibodeau despite the team's recent success.

  "This firing... feels a little impulsive." – Jason McIntyre ([37:34])

• James Dolan's Role: Examination of owner James Dolan's artistic vision versus the operational demands of running a successful basketball team.

  "James Dolan at his core is an artist." ([35:12])

• Team's Potential: Despite the coaching change, McIntyre believes the Knicks have built a strong culture and roster, questioning the necessity of the firing.

  "They built a great culture. It's a really good team." ([36:00])

Notable Quote:

"It's the players' league. The Knicks need another score." – Jason McIntyre ([37:00])

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8. NBA Landscape and Player Personas

Timestamp: [40:05 - 41:19]

Key Discussion Points:

• Player Maturity: Discussion on the maturity and professionalism of current NBA stars compared to previous generations, noting a lack of "fascinating" personalities.

  "What's happening in the NBA is... more skilled and it's businesslike." – Jason McIntyre ([40:12])

• Cultural Shifts: Exploration of how increased salaries, better training, and focus on skills have transformed player behavior and league dynamics.

  "There's so much money in professional basketball now... it's functional." – McIntyre ([40:16])

• Demand for Star Quality: The necessity for teams to have not just talented players but also charismatic and engaging personalities to captivate fans.

  "This series needs Draymond Green. It needs a second rounder with a chip on his shoulder." ([41:02])

Notable Quote:

"There's so much money... you don't hear stories of NBA guys as often going broke." – Jason McIntyre ([40:40])

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9. Closing Remarks and Sponsor Messages

Timestamp: [41:19 - End]

The episode concludes with a series of sponsor messages promoting educational institutions, BMW's electric SUV, and other commercial products. These segments reiterate the podcast's structure of blending content with advertisements seamlessly.

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Key Takeaways:

• NBA and NFL Insights: The hosts provide critical analysis of current sports events, focusing on team performances, player movements, and management decisions.

• Player-Centric Discussions: Emphasis on how individual player actions and personas influence broader team dynamics and fan engagement.

• Management and Strategy: Insight into how ownership and coaching strategies impact team success and league perceptions.

Notable Quotes:

• "This series feels small... It's a forgetful business like series for OKC." – Jason McIntyre ([03:23])
• "You can't just throw the first punch. You got to try to throw all the punches all night." – Shai Gilgeous-Alexander ([06:48])
• "If Justin Fields were given similar opportunities, the Steelers would be overjoyed." – Jason McIntyre ([16:00])
• "James Dolan at his core is an artist." – Jason McIntyre ([35:12])
• "What's happening in the NBA is... more skilled and it's businesslike." – Jason McIntyre ([40:12])

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This summary encapsulates the main discussions and insights from the podcast episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened. The clear sections and notable quotes offer a structured and engaging narrative of the topics covered.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every.

[Colin Cowherd]

Weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail].

[Jason McIntyre]

Or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

Here we go Live. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mac it is good to be back. Mr. Buddy had some fun. Traveled with my son. Hang out in the east coast last night. Things are good. But I gotta tell you, watching Oklahoma City, it's not gonna be a ratings bonanza. They are businesslike. They are a businesslike organization. They're young and Indiana's got their hands.

[Dan Patrick]

Full using a B word. I would use boring. That's what I thought of game two.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Third quarter blowouts.

[Jason McIntyre]

So let's start with that.

[Colin Cowherd]

I.

[Jason McIntyre]

First of all, let's start. I've never liked seven game NBA series. Baseball's different because you have to work your way through the starting staff. But basketball, March Madness beats the NBA ratings in the playoffs normally with far less talent. And the reason is it's sudden death basketball, one bad call, one bad possession, it's. And there's a reason 100 meter dash is more interesting than the marathon at the Olympics. So this series feels small. Game one's Thursday. Game two is Sunday. Game three is Wednesday. I'm forgetting about this series. That is a forgetful business like series for okc. They're eight. This is one of these games. Another downside to a long series. Seven games, even five games. There will be games built into a series that you know the winner before the tip off. And last night, I'm sorry, OKC was winning that game and they were going to win it comfortably. I mean, you got Aaron Wiggins is hot and Jalen Williams and Alex Caruso. Forget SGA who's going to break all sorts of playoff records. But I mean OKC has not lost back to back home games all season. You have to go to last year for them to do that when they were even younger. And SGA is getting better every year. So that game was decided. We can, we can pick apart Halliburton. Slow start. You know, they made their customary run. This is what the Pacers do. They fall behind. They can start very slow, but here they come from behind. And they've done this through the entire playoffs. But the rosters aren't necessarily that even. I like Indiana's roster. I love Oklahoma City's roster. But through two games, OKC has led for 91 minutes. And through two games, Indy's led for two. And that's kind of the series. So this, this series does not have a lot of star power. Obviously I don't think market size of markets matters that much. I mean, I think the highest rated NBA final ever included Utah. So I don't think it matters that much. But there's not a lot of star power. And even SGA's game is very businesslike. It's not dynamic, it's not flashy and it's not going to be a series we talk about much in between games. Oklahoma City is going to dominate it statistically. The question is, Oklahoma City is so young and they've never been here before. Are they going to get tight when they go back home or a chance in Indiana to seal it? Is this young team going to get tight because the best player in this series is SGA. I'm looking at numbers this morning. 30 plus points, five assist games. He's tied with LeBron and Michael Jordan and he's going blow through that. But he's not necessarily a fascinating player. And there are a lot of businesses and teams that are efficient and they're calculated and they're highly productive and they're not that interesting. This series feels like that Saturday Night Live when the celebrity host doesn't have a lot of star power and you're kind of, you're kind of wishing Tom Hanks would host it again or Bill Murray would host it again or anybody not named Steven Seagal would host it again. Just anybody to host it that you've heard of and that you care about. And the band's not very good and there's no star power. We need a Draymond Green in this series. Something inappropriate, anything. It feels very business like to me. And the team that has led 91 of the minutes is the team we all thought would lead 91 of the minutes. And here is about to be record breaking SGA on evening the series.

[Shai Gilgeous-Alexander]

You can't just throw the first punch. You got to try to throw all the punches all night. And yeah, that's what we did. We threw enough punches tonight to get a W. You know, this is where our feet are. This is where we are. And you can't go back in the past. You only try to make the future better. So that's what I'm focused on.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, so I was gone. Colin right, Colin wrong in about an hour from now. And Matt Hasselbeck. So I was gone. There was some news with Aaron Rodgers who's not nearly as interesting as he used to be, but it is news. The Pittsburgh Steelers are a top four or five brand. And Aaron over the last 15 years has been a top four or five brand in the NFL. Discount double check guy. Like a lot of ads, a lot of commercials. Now some controversy. So he signed with the Steelers. But my takeaway on this is when the stories came out over the last three days. Quarterbacks can be A lot of things in the NFL. They can be small. Kyler Murray, they can be old. Brady was Joe Flacco. They can be unorthodox. Philip Rivers, they can be kind of unathletic or the second best quarterback in the family, Eli Manning. But they can't be weird. Head coaches and quarterbacks can't be weird. Even if you're quirky, go be a kicker. You start looking at the stories that came out. According to Adam Schefter, Aaron Rodgers was the Steelers third choice. They wanted Matt Stafford and they wanted to keep Justin Fields. Here's another story from another reporter, Sean McVeigh. Aaron Rodgers offered the Rams a major discount. Obviously a house in Malibu wanted to play for the Rams. In McVeigh, they offered him nothing. So he went to the Rams, told his agent, I'll play for the cheapest deal possible. McVeigh passed. Oh, by the way, the Vikings. Kevin O' Connell, according to another reporter, Rogers had major interest playing for the great play caller, Kevin o' Connell. Not interested. And that office story I'll talk about later. Ross Tucker says vikings aren't sure J.J. mcCarthy is the guy. What's that tell you? Even Aaron Glenn with the Jets, a defensive coach, they don't have a quarterback. First thing he did is we get Aaron Rodgers in that weird meeting. Almost uncomfortable meeting out of the building. So all these secret marriages and ayahuasca and darkness retreats and passive aggressive nonsense and conspiracy theories, weird doesn't work because weird is unpredictable. And you want your coach to be predictable. And your quarterback, even if he's limited, even if he's unathletic, even if he's small, even if he's old, you want to know what you're getting on Sunday and in camp and at halftime and with Aaron, because the NFL is unpredictable. And when adversity strikes in the NFL, which is, by the way, the second quarter of week one after Labor Day, that the league's all about adversity. And you're not sure what you get with Aaron. So he wasn't this odd. He wasn't this combative in his prime. But people age differently based on a lot of factors. Aaron got old and rich and for a long time was single. And now he's got a wedding ring. So he's not. And I guess I'm happy for him, but who knows? I just know this. All these great quarterbacks in this league, the Lamar Jacksons and the Joe Burrows and the Josh Allens and the CJ Strouds and obviously the Patrick Mahomes and the Justin Herberts are all totally committed. None are weird. They're kind of predictable. You know what you get and Aaron's not. And I've had two general managers in the league tell me over the last couple years, Aaron comes off as odd. You're not really sure what you get. A lot of a passive aggressive stuff. Nobody wants to deal with that. And so I think Aaron's career, when you Hear about Sean McVay saying, Nah, Kevin O' Connell, nah, I thought Kyle Shanahan would be interested. Apparently that was a nah. Aaron Glenn, no thanks. Mike Tomlin. Adam Schefter reports. Third choice. They wanted Justin Fields, who by the way, when you go back and look at the Pittsburgh theater Justin Fields numbers, we'll talk about that later. They weren't terrible. So I think Aaron's career is ending the way a lot of careers end for relatives and musicians and actors, that the hat they wear becomes a little bit more tinfoil. They start doing their own homework. And when you got all these offensive coaches who have watched Aaron Rodgers probably at some point worshiped Aaron Rodgers, who would have loved to win his prime, had Aaron Rodgers all say, even at a discount, double check. Nah, no thanks. Aaron's aging the way weird ages. J. Mac calling, right. Colin Wrong. Top of next hour. There's a lot of things going on right now in the NFL because you know what happens, my guy, Shador Sanders. So OTAs are voluntary, right. Starting tomorrow, minicamps are mandatory. So tomorrow, J. Mac, old Shadow Sanders with all the veterans in tow in Cleveland, Are you ready for what? I think remember a couple of years ago, you and I know this, that the off season in the NFL our job is basically football season and then waiting for football season. And you go through all these camps and what do they mean and what do they not mean? Exhibition season doesn't mean anything anymore. Nobody plays. And a couple years ago we were all into the Kenny Pickett dilemma or the Kenny Pickett story, like how is he going to be in Pittsburgh? The Shador Sanders story is that. But my take issuer Sanders is much better than Kenny Pickett, but it's one of these AFC north teams and we're all waiting for this quarterback. So tomorrow is official should do or with the veterans in camp. And you know what veterans do, J. Mac? They leak stuff to the press.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Interesting. You know, my favorite part of your vacation was when you took time off of cycling around Europe to chime in on social media about how great Shador Sanders was. Meanwhile, he's not even throwing a first teamers. Colin, I know that irked you. I'm sure you saw Cam Newton came after me upset with my Shador take. Listen, I'm just going to rock with Stefanski. If he likes Dylan Gabriel, I like Dylan Gabriel. If he likes Kenny Pickett, I like Kenny Pickett. I think Kevin Stefanski doesn't really love Shador at this point. And that's fair to say, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes, I have. I want to talk about this because I think all of us in the media are forgetting about the most important factor with Shador Sanders. And it's not Shadour and it's not his dad. And I'll tell you what that factor is. Coming up next, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Covino]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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So I'm reading a Yahoo Sports column today and they're giving the odds on who's going to be starting for the Cleveland Browns at quarterback. So Joe Flacco 50%, Kenny Pickett at 40%, Dylan Gabriel at 9% and Shador Sanders at 1%. Okay, Shador Sanders has two things going for him and don't kid yourself, this is how the league works. The owner of the Cleveland Browns, Jimmy Haslam, is really impulsive. He drafted Johnny Manziel over better quarterbacks. He drafted Baker Mayfield. He signed DeSean Watson to a ridiculous guaranteed deal despite all sorts of allegations personally against him. Horrible contract, probably the league's worst contract and in a quarterback room with zero star power. Except Shador Sanders, he's going to get a chance. And I mean this is a owner they don't have the Steelers roster or legacy. They don't. They're not as well run as Pittsburgh and they don't have Joe Burrow. So that's the first thing. There's a lot of belief in the NFL that Jimmy Haslam is the reason that of all the teams Cleveland finally drafted Chador Sanders. He is desperate to be recognized and for star power. The second thing Cleveland has going for it Chadur has going for it is Cleveland's roster is the weakest easily in the division and the early schedule is brutal. Not only are five of the first six teams they face playoff teams, but the first five teams they play are all top 10 offenses. And there's a lot of flashy quarterbacks. Jordan Love and Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. So you think old Joe Flacco dull Kenny Pickett, small Dylan Gabriel when the team's getting beat 33 to 17 and the quarterback for the Browns looks small and old and average against exciting Jordan Love and Lamar Jackson? Or brilliant Joe Burrow or again, highly productive Jared Goff. Even in week six, it's Aaron Rodgers who will be the biggest star in the building. So my prediction, you start looking at that schedule between week seven and ten, Shador Sanders is going to get a shot here Shedeurs on this roster because Jimmy Haslam wanted him on the roster. My guy, the former NFL scout John Middlekopf, was the first to say it. They drafted Dylan Gabriel around before he should have been drafted so they could get out of the Shadour Sanders sweepstakes. And as J. Mac pointed out, I don't think Stefanski is in love with Shador Sanders, even though I think he's a likable kid. I thought the draft room was a little much, but I'm going to make a prediction here. Haslam is starving for a star quarterback. He doesn't have the Ravens roster, he doesn't have Burrow, he doesn't have the Steelers brand. It's a weak roster that really, I mean, they're an injury or two away. Maybe one injury away from having the weakest wide receiver room in the league. Cross your fingers with Jerry Jeudy staying healthy. So this is a team that's going to be boring offensively. You know what will make him not boring? Shador Sanders taking snaps, win or lose. J. Mac with the news.

[Shai Gilgeous-Alexander]

No, no, no, turn on the news.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is the Herd line news.

[Dan Patrick]

All right, let's be legendary. Colin, let's start with Aaron Rodgers, your favorite quarterback. So we know he signed in Pittsburgh, but there were a lot of reports last week that he was waiting for Minnesota. Well, now stuff's coming out of Minnesota that they decided to pass on your boy Rogers because they saw a three year window to win a championship right now with JJ McCarthy because he's on his rookie deal. I obviously missed all of last year, but because he's on the rookie deal, they can pay Justin Jefferson all of the money they're able to fortify in free agency. That defense is low key, nasty. Like seriously, one of the quietest good defenses in the league led by Brian Flores. They've Got a good offensive line member. Derisal will come back from injury. I believe everybody's sleeping on Minnesota. It all comes down to McCarthy. Do you think they could win a Super bowl in the next three years with Kevin o' Connor on the shots?

[Jason McIntyre]

Now listen, all you need to see is all the flirting the Vikings have done with Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones and Aaron Rodgers. Would you flirt with like that if you were with the person you wanted to marry? No, they're flirting because they don't know exactly what they have. And there's concerns about JJ McCarthy in a second surgery and he's kind of small and he only threw the ball 30 times once in college. So these are all the things I had said when he came out. I don't see it. I don't see a franchise guy that you can sit and drop back 42 times in a division with I think just better offensive quarterbacks or O lines. So here's Caleb Williams and then Jared Goff and then Jordan Love. And I think if you have the third or the fourth best quarterback talent in your division, you can't just hope that your brilliant coach and I think Kevin o' Connell is really smart. You can't have him out scheme. You can't win in this league by out scheming. At some point you have to have players to win games. I mean, Andy Reid was not winning Super Bowls and he was out scheming everybody for 10 years in Philly. You've got to have players got to his Super Bowl.

[Dan Patrick]

But, but let me point this out. There are a lot of similarities between these Vikings and what the NERS did with Brock Purdy. Right? They. They realize, oh, this guy's really good. He can process quickly and deliver the ball. Shucks, he could be our guy. And we have a long super bowl window because he's cheap. They get to the NFC title game, he gets hurt, then they get to the Super Bowl. Like, I don't know why that blueprint can't work for J.J. mcCarthy. Kevin OConnell is as good of a scheme guy as Kyle Shanahan.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, but Brock Purdy, to his credit, had to carry Iowa State. And there's a history in the NFL that quarterbacks in college that don't play with stars, that trail, that have to basically drive the offense like Brock Purdy had to. Like Jared Goff had to. Like Aaron Rodgers at Cal had to. These quarterbacks like J.J. mcCarthy that come out never throwing the ball 30 times, rarely trailing, having better players in all but one game of the year you get it to the NFL. And the other thing about him, so I just don't see it. I think Michigan, the last two years at Michigan, felt like a Saban. Alabama team, great run game, great protection, star receivers, always leading, unbelievable defense, always had the best coach. That's the opposite of the NFL.

[Dan Patrick]

Sorry, I'm not buying the college stuff. You know, what's his name? The Niners. Brock purdy was like 6 and 5 at Iowa State. Patrick Mahomes had a losing record.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, I'm not. It's not about that. But Purdy was asked to carry his college team. Aaron was asked to carry Cal. Philip Rivers was asked to carry North Carolina state. Matt Ryan, BC JJ McCarthy turned and handed the ball off for three years. That's not. You're not. That's not an NFL life.

[Dan Patrick]

Isn't there a world where Kevin O' Connell says, I'm not going to have McCarthy throw 25 or 30 times anyway? Look at the Darnold model last year, Colin. The less Darnold threw, the more successful they were.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, but that's that. Ideally you're right, but it's the NFL. You're going to have to throw 38 times a game, six times. Because defenses get. Remember, defensive players get hurt. That division's got all. Now you got Ben Johnson in that division. Chicago's got. You're going to get into track meets in that division. Matt LaFleur, Ben Johnson, Dan Campbell, you have offensive coaches there.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. So I am nervous going all in on the Vikings. But it works for you. Last year with your Washington prediction, your Denver. So now I'm going heavy Vikings. We'll see how it works out for me. All right, next up is Lamar Jackson. Colin, I feel like we do this every summer with him. He missed the second week of OTAs. Last week after it comes that GM Eric Dacosta discussed an extension talk with Jackson. However, Shaun Harbaugh is not concerned that Lamar misses five of six OTA sessions.

[John Middlekauff]

For any player. It's how they play. I'm not measuring, you know, really the attendance. I mean, it's a voluntary camp, you know, so not measuring that. I mean, I love being out here and I think all the players do. And when Lamar's out here, I promise you he loves being out here. You could see it when he was out here.

[Jason McIntyre]

So, yeah, it doesn't bother me. Not the end of the world. He's in his prime. He's totally committed. I'm fine.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's not. He's by the way he's been to this organization how many straight years? I. When you're a new guy on a new team, I want you to OTAs. When you're an older quarterback, I want you committed, focused, learning, new teammates. As quarterbacks get older, sometimes it's harder to relate and connect with young receivers. But if you've been with a friend, if Mahomes misses an ota, or Josh Allen or Lamar, they know the offense, they know the coach, they know the coordinator, they know the personnel. Lamar's fine.

[Dan Patrick]

So this is no big deal. Your star player, two time mvp, just no show.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, he's not new. He's been. He knows the personnel in the playbook.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's good.

[Dan Patrick]

You know, I know the person on the playbook here, Colin. I think next week I'm a bounce. Is that cool? He's got a no show, by the way. I couldn't believe the stat. Our guys found it. Lamar passed up on $750,000. That's his bonus for attending 80% of off season activity. Because he missed so many OTAs, he can't hit that anyway. He just said, I don't need $750,000. I would rather. I don't know what he's doing. But Colin, like, hey, listen, we do this every summer with, with Lamar. Every single summer.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

At some point, you know, maybe show up.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, I, I don't, I don't feel. It's like Luka Doncic where he's playing himself into shape. He comes into the season in impeccable shape and I can see Lamar Jackson saying, guys, I'm good here. I'm good. And by the way, I think Lamar feels he's a little bit underpaid in the league. This is his. Well, whatever. This is his sort of. He's winning 76% of his games. But again, I think it goes back to this. Same coach, same personnel, same division, same quarterback. Zay Flowers, Derrick Henry, he now. And he'll show up up to mandatory mini camp. But a, but a, an ota. For a guy who knows the system and the coach and the staff, it just doesn't bother me.

[Dan Patrick]

We'll wrap with this like I do believe Burrow, Mahomes and Josh Allen will all show up. That's just my prediction. And Lamar will be one of the big four. You know, you got the, what do they call it? The Magnificent Seven stocks. You got the big four in the NFL if three or four show up and Lamar doesn't, not a great look. Final story, Colin, is Giannis Everybody's waiting for the big guy. Is he going to demand a trade? Will he not? Well, there's growing skepticism about whether he will actually request a trade, adding, according to this report, executives will believe it when they see it. And another report, because everybody's got one on Giannis, claims that every team in the NBA has called the Bucks, every single one. About Giannis and Colin. There is an interesting parallel here, and that's the Kawhi Leonard move, right. Kawhi was not going to sign an extension anywhere, but Toronto was willing to roll the dice. Do you think someone's willing to roll the dice for Giannis for two years? Because that changes the equation, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, yeah. I mean, look at the era we're in right now. If OKC wins the title, what is it? Seven champions in seven years. If I was an owner or a general manager and I could bring in Giannis and I felt for two years I could be a favorite or a co favorite to win a title. Yeah, I would strongly consider it depends on what I have to give up. But I again, I look at Houston. Well, Houston's not as good as okc, period. And as Wemby develops, if they add, first of all, they now have not only Wemby, but they have two other star young players and the Aaron Fox. So if I'm Houston and I'm sitting there and I'm thinking to myself, I don't know what Jalen Green's going to be. You can't touch Amend Thompson. But what is Houston? Is Houston going to become the Sacramento Kings that could never beat the Lakers? Because I think Wemby is going to those young players in San Antonio are going to rise and I think OKC's head and shoulders above everybody else. What is Houston? If I'm Houston and have to make a deal which is really front heavy for the organization where I don't know the middle and late outcomes, I think you have to consider it. I think in this league now you got to be aggressive. Things change fast, be aggressive.

[Dan Patrick]

Totally agree. I thought the Knicks were out of it, but this Jason Kidd stuff that bubbled up all weekend. Yeah, you know, Jason Kid and Giannis are tight from their time in Milwaukee and I, I, I think my guess is the Knicks are back in the Giannis mix and that's gonna be a big story here in the coming weeks.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't know what they give up.

[Dan Patrick]

Everything except everything. Carl Anthony, Townsend Bridges, take them, they're yours.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, that's not good enough.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, not really. But what other what are you betting against? Like, are you. Is Stefan Castle gonna do it?

[Jason McIntyre]

I still. I'll throw it out there. Boston Jalen Brown expiring contracts. I don't know. I. I want an all Star. If you go to Houston. Shen Goon, you know, I don't want Jalen Green. But you got to give me an all Star. I got to get an all Star back.

[Dan Patrick]

Lance Towns is an all NBA. Forget All Star. I sell you on that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. So when I was gone, I want to address this. The Knicks fired Tom thibodeau, Colin Wright, WR, top of next hour, 30 minutes away. That'll be in it. I. I wouldn't have done that. The last two to two and a half years, the Knicks have been something they haven't been in 25 years. The Knicks have been something in the last two years. I'll say it again, they haven't been in 25 years. Well run, organized, patient. James Dolan has owned this team for a long time. 1999. The last two years are the first time the Knicks have had back to back 50 win seasons. So James Dolan at his core is an artist. He's emotional, he's in a band, he's an artist. He inherited Cablevision. Is he a businessman? Well, sure, a lot of artists. Mick Jagger is a businessman too. So is Paul McCartney. But the reason the sphere is so brilliant and it works for Dolan, it's his vision because he's an artist. It's right in his wheelhouse. And for two years, as he was building the sphere and the vision for the sphere, which if you haven't gone and I haven't, but it's remarkable. There's nothing else like it in the world. And James Dolan deserves a lot of credit for the sphere, but he removed himself from the day to day stuff. He's a very emotional guy. He's an artist. It really is. His dad's the businessman, he's the artist. He removes himself from the Knicks and it's just World Wide Web. It's Tibbs, it's Leon Rose. And they ran a very highly patient and competent basketball operation. And they built a great culture, they built an excellent roster. It's smart. It feels like Villanova. Professionally, it's tough. It's a really good basketball operation. But Dolan was guiding the Sphere project. And for those two years he was sort of removed, at least emotionally, from the Knicks. And in the process they built a Great culture. And so again, he's owned them since like 99. And these are the best back to back years since he bought them. So it's pretty obvious the artist can kind of sort of a little bit get in the way of some basketball stuff. And remember, Dolan was never a huge fan of Tibbs. So Dolan, the artist liked star power, Isaiah Thomas, coach Phil Jackson, general man, Carmelo Anthony, Amari, Stoudemire. That's what he loved. Tibbs is a grinder, a defensive guy, a workaholic. He's sort of gruff. He doesn't feel like a star, even though in NBA circles he's highly respected. So I sort of look at the. Even Mike D' Antoni. When they hired Mike D' Antoni, he was Mr. Offense, remember from Italy? It was kind of a sexy hire. That was all Dolan. And Tibbs isn't really of Dolan's DNA. They're not the same guy. So I think the firing here was sort of inevitable. I don't love it. I think, and this happens a lot, is that. Listen, Jim Ursay was a fascinating man, totally complex, wonderfully charitable, a really neat, complex human being with obviously some demons and a dark side. I think there's an argument the Colts will be more centered and more patient and less impulsive, even though he was a wonderful human being. Owners drive the bus. We forget about this. Most of them aren't Stan Cronky. Like a lot of artists, they inherit the wealth, they're very impulsive, they've always had money, they want their way. They're all very unique and different. And Dolan is really got a feel for music and entertainment and star power and art. I don't doubt any of it. But when he removed himself from the Knicks and the sphere had his attention for two years, they built a hell of a basketball culture. It's a really good team. Even the Cat move I like. And so this firing to me feels a little impulsive. This is a players league. The Knicks need another score. I don't think it was a Tibbs issue. In fact, last year we were like, ah, they're worn down, they practice too hard. This team did not run out of gas. They didn't practice too hard. That was not the issue with this team. They needed another catch and shoot guy like KD and the Cat and Brunson on the floor at the same time. It's problematic defensively and sometimes even offensively, but they made steps and stages. They're a good team. I don't like the firing Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific American.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

You know, J. Mac, I was thinking about this during the break. If you J. Mac and I were talking about SGA is not really a fascinating player. He's just a great player. But if you start looking at a lot of these teams, I just saw a story this weekend, Wemby, is he going to become a monk? That story was on the Internet and SGA and Jokic and Jason Tatum. I'm not disputing how good the players are. They're not fascinating people. Jordan was fascinating. He was a meteor. LeBron and Steph and Magic and a lot of these stars, now, they're international, they're stoic. They're like mature above their ages. I mean, I wasn't as mature as Jayson Tatum or SGA if I'd have had that money at that age. And so what's happening in the NBA is there was a certain level and I think a lot of it's this. It used to be that everybody was fighting for a piece of the pie. Now these guys are all rich and they're not as combative and they're not as feisty and they're tremendous. They're more skilled. They get better coaching, they have better training, they eat better. But there's not, there's not a lot of, you know, it's businesslike. There's so much money in professional basketball now. You don't hear stories of NBA guys as often going broke. You used to do documentaries on that. And the fights and the why would you want to get into a fight? Everybody's rich. The coaches are rich. The commissioner's rich. The owners are rich. The players are rich. The assistant coaches are rich. Between the pensions and the salaries. The league just signed a $76 billion deal. There's not a lot of dysfunction in the NBA. I mean, it overwhelmingly. It used to be almost like hockey, that every NBA team had a tough guy. You had a very low skilled Charles Oakley, or you had a guy that Rodman. I remember there's a guy for Sonics, was it Dennis Autry? I remember you'd have a tough guy. You'd have a tough guy who would protect your star. Like somebody skating with Gretzky and protecting him. And the league now is much more functional. It may be a little too political for some people's tastes, but it's functional. It's more mature. Even though the players come into the league younger, it's more international, it's more European. And it doesn't necessarily make it more fascinating. It just makes it more talented and skilled. Like, everybody looks at Halliburton and they're like, oh, he's a trash talker. How does anybody not like Halliburton? He's like the most likable guy in the league. He's constantly smiling. And so there was something I was saying. This series needs Draymond Green. It needs a second rounder with a chip on his shoulder. It needs Rodman, it needs Bill Laimbeer. It needs a Kurt Rambus. It needs somebody that's a little off center. But these guys now are. There's so much money. They've got trainers, they eat right, they go to bed. They're not going out to the nightclubs. I mean, James Harden, obviously, they've got a jersey retired at a Houston strip joint for him, you know, God love him. But by and large, the players are younger, they're more skilled, they're more mature, they're bigger stars. They make more money with shoes and their contracts. And so I've said this about Jayson Tatum. He's got no aura. He's just really talented. He doesn't have any aura. I keep waiting for Ant. I'm not sure if he wants the mantle to be the greatest player. So I think we've just segued to a different time in the NBA where the skill level is through the roof, but it doesn't always make for fascinating basketball. I was thinking about this, that there's a story. Pro football talk doesn't necessarily love Aaron Rodgers. That's fine. They were saying the acquisition of Aaron Rodgers is more desperado than renegade. Kind of a desperate move. Regardless of what you think, here's what is interesting about Aaron Rodgers to The Steelers. And the Steelers are a huge brand. And Aaron, although a regressing brand, is still, you know, if he's on television playing, he's always interesting to watch. But last year, Justin Fields. Mike Tomlin sat Justin Fields. But if you go to Justin Fields numbers last year in his six starts for the Steelers, it's pretty interesting. Four touchdowns, two picks, 10 total touchdowns, only two giveaways. His completion percentage, I think, was the best of his career at 66 and a half percent. His passer rating was 94. So if you extrapolate that over 17 games, Justin Fields would have had, he'd have been a Pro Bowler. He would have been 11 and 6 with 28 touchdowns and six turnovers with a 94 passer rating. Now. Now, would that have been the case. Necessary? Well, I'm just telling you, if you. Six games is not a small sample size. That's a. That's more than a third of the NFL season. And I'm not a huge Justin Fields fan. But he's young, people like him. He's athletic. I'll argue all day. Dude's got a whip, he's got an arm. You can say what you want about, kid can move, he's got an arm. I don't think he sees the field particularly well. Kind of the Zach Wilson issue. But he's got, he's got traits. And if you go to Aaron Rod, and again, we'll show some video of him, there's no question he does things that are special. It's just. Does he see the field? I don't think he does. But if you go to Aaron Rodgers numbers, last year in New York, they were awful. And just for our radio audience, it's like, passer rating was just 90, 28 TDs, 13 giveaways, 5 and 12. We could say, well, the Steelers are a much better run organization than the Jets. I'm not disputing that. But if Aaron Rodgers numbers are as good of what Justin Fields numbers could have been had he been allowed to play 17 games, you would be overjoyed with that. So my guess on what Aaron's season looks like, I'll put my projection up. He's 8 and 9 or 9 and 8, he'll miss a couple of games. I think the offensive line's pretty average. No? Najee Harris, DK Metcalfe, you know, will be productive with aaron. They're an 8 and 9, 9 and 8 team. They start reasonably well, but Aaron gets banged up, misses a couple of starts. But I do think it's Interesting to note that this idea that while the production. This is why there's a story out that Aaron was the third choice. They look, they wanted Matt Stafford. Well, Matt Stafford's in a different level than Aaron right now. It's not particularly close. But if Justin Fields. This idea that Aaron's going to elevate the quarterback position. Go look at what Justin Fields did in six starts. And I'm not a huge Justin Fields fan, but it's pretty good. And you know, he's bigger than Aaron, he runs better than Aaron. He doesn't have the release of Aaron, but he's a much more dynamic athlete than Aaron and behind an average offensive line with no Najee Harris. There's an argument to be made that Justin Fields would have been the better fit. Just an argument. Okay, so this is interesting. This is interesting. So now the majority of fans are usually not right when it comes to sports gambling, right? Otherwise they wouldn't be building gigantic casinos and the draft kings of the world wouldn't be doing as well. But this is interesting. Betters North Carolina to go under seven and a half wins. Now remember, Belichick and Carolina are in the acc. It is an awful conference. It's the weakest major conference right now of the four. I think the Big Ten is the best. SEC is close. Big 12 is third. Big 12's got some Utahs and Kansas State and you know, I mean BYU's Houston, they're feisty programs. ACC is a mess. So basically the betters to go under seven and a half wins with this dog food schedule is incredible by both the total number of wagers and the total dollars wagered under seven and a half wins. So what's interesting about new coaches, especially star coaches. Let's consider Deion Sanders, Colorado, Mario Cristobal, Miami Lincoln Riley, USC and Brian Kelly, lsu. And LSU is a great football brand. Carolina's not with Belichick. All of them struggled. Crystal Ball went five and seven. Dion went four and eight and we all bragged about that. He tripled wins. Now Lincoln Riley did win 11 games first year, but it was a house of cards. They didn't have any NFL players, not any good ones except Caleb. So. And he's unproven. So Belichick's an NFL coach. So these people pounding the under, it's fascinating because he's an NFL coach. So there's not a lot of NFL coaches that have crushed at the college level. Players have classes, players have distractions. You're on a college campus, you got to deal with the ncaa, whatever that is. Also, there's limitations for practice time. My biggest issue is the staffs. So Belichick's got two of his sons on it and Mike Lombardi's sons. And it may work. Mike Lombardi's son. It may work, but it feels like it's more about like allies and cronies and loyalists to Bill Freddie Kitchens. It's not a great staff. It's sons. It's people he trusts. And maybe that explains the Jordan Hudson relationship and unc and she's his social muse. Whatever. But that's my issue with it. I don't think it's a great staff. And when Ryan Day just won a national championship at Ohio State, he hired Chip Kelly. He didn't hire a relative. And when Jim Harbaugh and you think of John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh's rival is his brother. He's not on the staff. So I Football is not a family reunion or a backyard barbecue. Let's all get together. That's just not what it is. So it's fascinating that the most bet in terms of total number of bets and the money wagered, the biggest bet in college football in future bets is under on North Carolina. And again, I think I would go over just because the ACC is so awful, but it's fascinating. Maybe it's the Jordan Hudson effect. He's distracted. I don't know. But that is interesting and I think one thing that is clear. Lincoln Riley, Cristobal, Deion Sanders, Brian Kelly. That first year the Nil. 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