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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
You're listening to an iHeart podcast. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience seamlessly integrates powerful performance, its bold, daring design, a refined interior, details cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric SUV compromise. Not one of them. Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And Degree listens. That doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and they're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under four bucks. So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG degree Cool Rush for yourself. The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs. The legacies are built, heroes rise, and the action never lets up with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. You don't just watch the madness, you live it. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. The code is heard code herd for new customers to get 300 bucks in bonus bets. If your five dollar bet wins only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York. Call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill casino and Resort in Kansas. 21. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now, let's get this party started.
- [03:20]
Jay Mac
You're listening to Fox sports radio.
- [03:25]
Colin Cowherd
Hour 2 Indiana Pacers have taken control of the series. Indiana has played 14 playoff games. They're 03 in game threes when they lead 2 0. When they've taken control of the series, winning on the road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland, at New York, they go into the other team's place, steal both games. They come home from foot on the gas lets off a little and they've lost one game in each series. Game three, that's it. Otherwise they're 11 and oh in the urgency games. Games one and two, four, five, six, they're 11 and oh and Halliburton stat line last night maybe the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life. 32, 15, 10 and no turnovers. That is beyond hyper efficiency. That is insane. That'd be like an NFL quite. That's what Jaden Daniels did last year when he would go like 30 of 34 with no turnovers. What? It's just, it's incredible against the defensive coach and a defensive team. And the other thing is, and you saw this with Magic Johnson. You see this with a truly great point guards. You see this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul was in LA, like Blake Griffin was like is he a top three or four player in the league and DeAndre Jordan was nothing but buckets. And then Chris Paul leaves those two players and they're not the same players. You see all the holes in their game. I like Pascal Siakam. He looks all NBA first team playing with Halliburton. 32, 15, 10 and no turnovers. Here's Hallie after I feel like we're making up stats at some point to make me look better.
- [05:10]
Greg Olson
I was just trying to be aggressive, man, just trying to play my best, you know.
- [05:14]
Colin Cowherd
I feel like I let the team.
- [05:15]
Greg Olson
Down in game three, felt like I could have been so much better.
- [05:20]
Colin Cowherd
So I felt like I responded the right way today. The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of the third quarter in game three and the start of the fourth and they lost their rhythm. And this is a rhythm team and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton. And then he came back in, he got them back on track, but it just, it felt like they lost their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench, if Brunson goes to the bench, Cat can score more. The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off the floor. It's like, it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay, all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is all time special. I love watching him play and I think he's a great personality. With that, Greg Olson joining us live. Fourteen years in the NFL, Fox Sports analyst, Great, great broadcaster. By the way, tight end university is back its fifth year in Nashville in June 23rd through the 26. I want ask about that because part of what you do, which I think is the most under discussed part of your sport, is film study. And Caleb Williams was recently quoted talking about the Bears, a team you played for and love playing for. He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone and I don't, you know, I'm not in those rooms. When you hear that he watched film alone, what was your interpretation of that? How's that land for you?
- [06:44]
Greg Olson
Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just, it's hard for me to believe that that was the case. And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been in three different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple different quarterback. I've never heard of a guy not having the opportunity to watch film with his position coach, let alone the quarterback. Not, you know, between the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinator, someone there. It's hard for me to believe that the organization would let their young rookie watch film by himself. But with that being said, yeah, it is though an element of the sport that there is a little bit of a learning curve. I don't think most young guys coming out of college unless you just happen to be playing for, you know, the right coach, the right position coach, coordinator, whoever at the college level to teach you the art of film setting. I think we used to have a joke like we're not in here watching movies, right? There's a lot of guys that put the game on play one and they just go play one, play to Play three and they just go through the sequence of a game, you know, yes, you're watching film, are you really getting the tendencies and really know what you're looking at to study? My experience is most guys have to learn that. Most guys have to learn that over the career. How I watched film in my 14th year was wildly different than how I watched it my first and second year. And I think it's up to the organization, it's up to the coach, especially at the quarterback position, where there is no greater responsibility than understanding not only everything of what your team's doing, but of course what the opposing team is doing defensively. So I can't imagine Ben Johnson's going to let that go on at all. So I think for Caleb Williams and his development, the right guy now is in control in Chicago, both over the team and then obviously offensively with what Ben Johnson can do. But yeah, when I, when I read that report, I kind of did a. Ooh, like true, not true, scales of truth, whatever. There's always probably two sides to every story. But just the fact that that was even suggested is not a great, is not a great reflection of the organization for sure.
- [08:51]
Colin Cowherd
By the way, did you and Cam, for instance, film study? Would you sit down with Cam and go, dude, this guy, this guy in the flats, like, is that a real thing?
- [09:02]
Greg Olson
Oh, absolutely. So we had a great routine, so it was actually kind of fun. So most of the meetings from when we got there in the morning were all controlled by the coaches. It was small group meetings, offensive install. Then we'd have practice, then we'd have post practice review where we'd watch the practice film. So there was opportunities to, you know, hey, coach, take a second Cam. Here's why I ran this flat. Here's why. And you're watching practice film or you're watching and the opportunity to go, but there's 35 guys in the room. It's not really the opportunity for the two of you to have your own conversation. But then at the end of the day when everything officially with the coaches ended, the tight end and the quarterback room in Carolina were right next to each other. We literally shared a wall. So he'd be in his room with some of the quarterbacks and I'd be doing. Sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of the day just for my own prep and notes and whatnot. And I knew he was right next door. So I would pop over and be like, hey, I need you to come take a look at this and say, hey, look at the Way the safety's hips. Are you okay if I take this a couple yards deeper, am I going to throw off your timing? And most of the time Cam was just like, get open, I'm good. But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't hold it that long. Or it messes up with my timing of my footwork, or I don't like the way your body language looks on there because you kind of fooled me. I wasn't sure when you were going to come out of your break. I need less at the top. So, like that dialogue in meetings on the field was non stop. And when you could play with one guy for as long as we did over time, I knew his answer before I even had to ask him and vice versa because we had talked through so many scenarios over so many days, you know, for those nine years together.
- [10:39]
Colin Cowherd
So Cam was a mover, Caleb's a mover, Cam Ward is a mover. Like, I like Cam a lot and I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the audience. When you do have Caleb Williams and he can ad lib now, I think the Bears online is better. He won't have to do it as much. But some of these guys like Cam, Cam Warden, Caleb, they're just naturally gifted. It's like if you have a great voice, you sing in the shower. Like that's just the reality of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does it make it harder for tight ends and does it make it harder in film studies so much as ad libbed?
- [11:10]
Greg Olson
That's a great question. So I think what we're seeing right now in the NFL is you can't play, I should say Smith in certainty. The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if you don't have some level of improv, right? Some level of playing off script, off platform, all the words, the buzzwords that get thrown around, but the ability to buy time, escape pocket pressure and still stay active as a quarterback and not always just rely on being a runner, stay active as a passer. I mean, now you also can't only play off script. You can't only play improv quarterback at the NFL. There's no timing, there's no rhythm. There's the tackles don't know your depth of your drop. The guards don't know the depth of the pocket. Am I blocking for you to be at five and a half yards or are you going to be outside the hash marks running with your life? If I'm a quarterback, if I'm a wide receiver or a tight end, I need to know at the top of my break, when I get my head around, am I looking to find you behind the center at 7 yards or is there a chance that you've already broken, contain and you're outside the pocket and now I need to get into scramble drilled. So there is a balance to it all. You can't just stand in one spot and be a statue in today's NFL. And you also can't just play recess football running around. It's not sustainable. So I think that blend of don't take what's special out of these guys, don't take it out of their game. If you have the ability to move and improvise, encourage them to do it. But just give them boundaries, give them parameters of saying, okay, I need you to hit your fifth step of your drop and it's a progression pass or it's a half field read or whatever the play calls for after you've exhausted all of that, if the opportunity there is to extend and create plays outside the rhythm of the game, we're never going to take you away. But it can't be hit your back foot and run around because we can't support you doing that every single play from a protection and a route concept. So there is a little give and take and I think that's something that Ben Johnson has proven. He's coached multiple different types of quarterbacks. He had a guy in golf who really was stationary in rhythm in timing. Get the ball out of his hand, he will have a little bit of a different flavor. For a guy like Caleb where he does get that rhythm progression passer in the offense because you need it. But then also encourage him to use his athleticism because it is very challenging for defenses to play off script and.
- [13:34]
Colin Cowherd
Defend that long before I get to the tight end you the tush push. You know, as a guy that was a willing blocker, my guess was you like it. Do you like the tush push?
- [13:47]
Greg Olson
I do. I think it would be extremely unfair and wrong to Philadelphia who has really some teams have done it here and there. No one has even come remotely close to doing it as efficiently as often and used it as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy from how they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and a half in their back pocket, how they call first and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down in their back pocket. Goal to go situations like it is a not just a play, it is really a centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built with that offense. And Jalen hurt. So I think to remove that from a team who has found a play that they're uniquely good at just because the rest of the league is tired of trying to find ways to defend it, I don't agree with. My gut tells me they are going to eventually ban it. I think it came so close this year at the owner's meeting. My. Typically, those things don't come back. They typically continue to move forward in getting the other side to flip. I hope I'm wrong, because I think Philly has earned the right to use that in their offense. I don't think the linemen love doing it. I don't think they love being at the bottom of the pile on, you know, seven times a game, five times a game. But when you're winning Super Bowls and you tell me I gotta mush a guy out of there and get my back right, I'll do that. I'll do that to win the Super Bowl. So I. I'll be curious to see how it plays out.
- [15:14]
Colin Cowherd
Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple years ago about, you know, running backs don't make any money. It's unfair. And my take has been, well, tight ends have been underpaid my entire life. They have to block the best athlete on defense and they have to catch. They have to do most of the dirty work, and then they're one of the last positions. I guess this has changed that you can really take a shot at as a defensive player. So when you have your Nashville tight end university and you have all these young guys in, what is something you preach to young tight ends? A high school tight end, it's not all catching. Like, is there something that is. Do you deliver a message, a harsh message to all these young tight ends that I wouldn't think about?
- [15:59]
Greg Olson
Yeah. And it's actually a very simple message. And, you know, we get into route running and we got Kelsey given, you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to use leverage and breaking and finding space and a lot of this stuff, I kind of look and I laugh and I'm like, kelsey, like, not everyone can do what you're talking about right now because it's. It's super advanced and him and Mahomes and then you got Kittle talking run game and. And footwork and hand placement and fight. And, you know, these guys are just so unique, but obviously they have a lot of experience and a lot of understanding of the position. But the message that we try to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver to all of our guys, to your point, is the, the best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at a higher level, is to be able to be trusted to be on the field on every snap. And that's going to be your best case for production catches, yards, opportunities, how much you get paid, the impact on the offense, all of it. If you, you could be the best pass catching tight end in football or the best run blocking tight end in football. But if I can only use that, I can only use you in package of the offense at times where those skill sets are warranted. You still are going to play in the NFL. You are still going to be able to find a roster spot because those skills have value. But if you want to be a legit guy, you want to catch 80 balls, you want to have 1,000 yards. The only reason I ever caught a thousand yards, Colin, was because I knew I went into every game and there was like four to six real routes downfield, 20 plus yards that were designed for me. But of that four to six, I needed the right protection, the right play call. Did the play ever get called in the first place against the right coverage? And then did I catch? It was the throat. There's so many factors of those four to six. If I got two or three of those, that was a great day. But now you got three catches for 55 yards. But now I caught a flat route, I caught a first and second down check down because I'm on the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you know I'd finish with 7 for 90. And it wasn't the flashy play. So if I'm only on the field for the flashy plays, I never catch the easy ones. And if I'm only good enough to be on the field and goal line and short yardage, because I'm a blocker, I don't catch a third and eight dig across the middle for 25. So being on the field and providing value to your team, no matter the down and distance, you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play, even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production, all of it go up. So that's our message to them, be good enough at everything and it's a much easier road.
- [18:49]
Colin Cowherd
Great stuff, Great broadcaster. Fox Sports. It's tight end you, it's In Nashville, the 23rd to the 26th. A great American city in Tennessee. Good seeing you, my man.
- [18:59]
Greg Olson
Good seeing you, man. Have a great summer.
- [19:01]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. See, J. Mac, if you did more than just jack up threes, if you could defend a little, if you could occasionally screen like Greg Olson talked about, you could be on the floor in key spots, not just jacking up threes. When your team's down, you do.
- [19:13]
Rachel Nichols
I know you like to take jabs at my hoops game, but I'll just say I've signed up for the most competitive hoops league I've ever joined. There's a large money to the winner in this league this summer. My wife doesn't even know about it. I'm just telling you right now.
- [19:27]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, cuz money is a real issue for you. You're not compensated.
- [19:29]
Rachel Nichols
Well, listen, you know, everybody can use a little raise every now and then.
- [19:33]
Colin Cowherd
Mr. Cowherd, you're ridiculous. All right. Want to thank Greg Olson for stopping by. It's the herd. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.
- [19:58]
Jay Mac
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- [20:58]
Colin Cowherd
Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, that's a no. A Philly cheesesteak, that's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah. That's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some Clear Skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah, so how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sundeliver, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest Legends of Sports never compromise any part of the game, so why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit card you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit Card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again, go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web bank in order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not Investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Tyrese Halliburton I know it's hard to say superstar in this league if you're not jumping over people or you're not 32 a game. But he feels like an emerging superstar to me. Here's J. Mac with the news.
- [24:09]
Jay Mac
No, no, no.
- [24:10]
Greg Olson
Heard on the news.
- [24:12]
Colin Cowherd
This is the Herd line news.
- [24:14]
Rachel Nichols
So you know I picked the Buffalo Bills, Colin, to get to the super bowl and win it. Well, some bad news already. New edge rusher Joey Bosa is sidelined to start OTAs. And worse yet, James Cook has is a no show. He's been asking for a new contract entering the final year of his rookie deal. This isn't great. Okay. Bosa already hurt Chargers fans. That's familiar sounds to their ears as they've seen him always injured. He has a calf injury. Colin, they said Bosa is expected to miss offseason work until the summer. What is that, July? And Cook was a stud. Second most TDs in the league tie with Derrick Henry. Not a great start to OTAs for the Buffalo.
- [24:57]
Colin Cowherd
I have no fears. Running back needs the least practice of any position in football. Offensive line usually needs the most practice along with quarterback and pass rusher is another position. If you're in shape, you'll be able to rush the passer. It's not like Joey Bose is going to forget how to rush the pasture. I actually think it's one of the better pickups of the year.
- [25:20]
Rachel Nichols
Bosa.
- [25:21]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean he can be banged up. Listen, the Chargers didn't want to pay Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa. They just, they couldn't pay both because of what they're paying Herbert and they're going to have to pay their left tackle. So there were just, there were limitations on, you know, they had to move off at one point Mike Williams and Keenan Allen and so they, they, they're going to pay Khalil Mack, who's been more available. Joey Bosa is going to go in there and have double digit sacks for the Bills.
- [25:46]
Rachel Nichols
Oh, what?
- [25:47]
Colin Cowherd
Remember, they also lead in 14 to 15 of their games. They'll lead in the fourth quarter, meaning the opponent's passing. So he's going to get. This is not a team that's going to be, let's be honest, this is not a team. It's going to be trailing late. They're favored in every single game, including the Eagles game. What does that mean? I learned this years ago from Bill Polian when they drafted Peyton Manning. His takeaway was we're going to be leading most of our games. Let's go draft pass rushers. And that's by the way What, Bill Belichick. We're going to be leading with Brady. They, they now, they always didn't have sack leaders, but they always led or were near the top in hurried and rushes. So once you get the great quarterback, by the way, what do the Chiefs pay on defense? They let a lot of people go. They don't let Chris Jones go because they're going to lead games. So Joey Bosa is a must for this team. He's going to end up with 11 or 12 sacks.
- [26:43]
Rachel Nichols
You know what we're going to need this summer? We need Ryan and Jay have a board next to you with our bets because that is insane. You think Bos is going to have double digit sacks? I don't even think he plays double digit games this season. This guy is a walking injury. Honestly. Listen, he'll be, I would just say put him in bubble wrap and unleash him in January. Just save him for the playoffs. Honestly, like that's crazy. I do want to just repeat. The Bills are winning the Super Bowl. All right, next story. Colin is my Knicks man. This is tough. It's just a difficult, It's a difficult day for me, man. Brunson and company could not get it done. Josh Hart was freaking terrible. I don't know. I don't know what to do. Let's just hear what Kat has to say. After the pacers took a 31 lead.
- [27:26]
Greg Olson
In the series, we've been a team.
- [27:29]
Colin Cowherd
That has kind of found a way.
- [27:33]
Greg Olson
To do the impossible. It always seemed impossible. You know, we just keep fighting.
- [27:41]
Colin Cowherd
So it's going to be a testament.
- [27:43]
Greg Olson
To our whole playoff run. You know, now we have to be in one of the biggest fights of our lives.
- [27:51]
Colin Cowherd
Well, it's been, listen, it's been fun, but the Pacers are 11. 0 in playoff games that aren't Game 3. And like, by the way, they took a lead last night. I felt like last night they controlled the game. They had a lead early, they had a late in the fourth quarter. I felt like. And a lot of it was the Knicks, the defense lacking.
- [28:10]
Rachel Nichols
They had no.
- [28:10]
Colin Cowherd
Well, and they, and they had turnovers. I mean, if you go look at the turnovers, they almost had twice as many turnovers as Indiana. So a lot of it was misfiring by the Knicks. But I felt last night when I watched that game, I felt like Indiana was in control of it, most of it.
- [28:22]
Rachel Nichols
No, they definitely were. I don't think the Knicks led in the second half. I'm, you know, this pains me to say even more. I won a Competitive NBA Finals.
- [28:33]
Greg Olson
Right.
- [28:33]
Rachel Nichols
Who do you think matches up better with the OKC Thunder? It's not the Knicks. I, I think it's the Pacers.
- [28:40]
Colin Cowherd
Right? Yeah. I don't think anybody matches up perfectly with okc. I, I, I think Indiana because of Halberton and their pace, they can run with anybody. They're not as good defensively as okc, but generally, when you get to the NBA Finals, remember Oklahoma City would go in as a big favorite. The pressure would be on Oklahoma City. So that is, that is something. And remember, they're big as Chet Holmgren. I get Miles Turner and Pascal Siakam. I get two veteran bigs. They're big as young Chet Holmgren. So I feel like I have a big advantage now. SGA is a better score than Halliburton, but Halliburton plays with great, much better pace, much better full court. And so, I mean, a lot of people don't think it's a great matchup. I think Indiana matches up with everybody.
- [29:33]
Rachel Nichols
Indiana matches up. They can match up really well. Naismith, you see him bodying Brunson. By the way, the other things, the Pacers are young. Colin. The oldest guys on their roster are TJ McConnell at 33 and Siakam at 31. And if you look at OKC, their oldest guy, Caruso, 31. This is a young, all of a sudden, it's a young finals. And I know it's not like the sexiest matchup, but I do think the Pacers could push them. I'm not seeing anything from the Knicks.
- [30:00]
Colin Cowherd
That leads me to the Thunder's identity is they force a lot of turnovers, and the Pacers don't commit turnovers.
- [30:07]
Rachel Nichols
Halliburton, are you ready? Halliburton has six turnovers in four games against the Knicks. Six in four games. That's like playing 40 minutes a night. That's crazy. Halliburton has been sensation. Final story. Colin is. Oh, Aaron Rodgers. He, the rumors continue about him in Pittsburgh, but let's, let's talk about the current starter end now. And that's Mason Rudolph. You know, this guy's been around the league for a minute. Bounced over to the Titans last year and he was asked about how it felt to be back in the black and yellow.
- [30:38]
Greg Olson
It's great. I, I've been a part where you.
- [30:40]
Colin Cowherd
Get, you jump on the moving train.
- [30:42]
Greg Olson
Late in, late in the spring and, and then you're also here from the jump. So I learned to adapt a bit.
- [30:46]
Colin Cowherd
Both.
- [30:47]
Greg Olson
But it's obviously good to be Wanted.
- [30:50]
Colin Cowherd
Well, you know what? He's. There's. There's a lot worse jobs in the NFL than being mostly a career backup with 20 starts in your career. He's had a. He's had a really nice. And I remember when he played at Oklahoma State, he. He's hung around. He's a good guy in the room. I mean, what does it tell you that Pittsburgh brought him back? He's a good guy. People, when you start bringing guys back, they're good in the room. That's why Chase. Daniel. That's why he lasted forever. Guys want Josh McNow. People want him. They want him in the room.
- [31:21]
Rachel Nichols
Yeah. Is that. Is that why I'm still here? You just want me to.
- [31:24]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I wouldn't say that's your strength. We keeping you around. There's budget concerns, so we'll just keep you around for a while.
- [31:29]
Rachel Nichols
Oh, wow. Okay. All right.
- [31:31]
Greg Olson
I hear you.
- [31:33]
Colin Cowherd
Jay Macleanoos. Well, that's the news.
- [31:36]
John Morgan
And thanks for stopping by the herd Lies.
- [31:39]
Colin Cowherd
I think this is interesting. There's. Obviously, there's a lot of pushback on Caitlin Clark walking into the WNBA and easily being their most popular player. Popularity is hard to explain. I've said this before. Taylor Swift is brilliant, and she's gifted, and she's amazing. Do I think she has the best voice? No. No, I don't. And I don't know music, but, you know, I've heard lots of singers who. To me, there's some sort of visceral connection, male and female. But she's universally accepted as the musical artist star. There's been a lot of action heroes. Is Tom Cruise the best actor? I don't know. He's the biggest star by a mile. Steph Curry's never been the best player in the NBA. I think he's more popular than LeBron. Why? I don't know. So for any of the WNBA players that want to make it about anything other than it happens, John Daly was kind of a mess, personally, was wildly popular on the PGA Tour. He was an everyman. Brett Favre, I would argue, was more popular than Tom Brady. Brady was a much more successful quarterback, but people connected with Brett Favre and sometimes maybe Tom was austere and he was. He was sort of the gold standard and, you know, he wasn't highly emotional and whatever, who knows? But I do think it's possible Diana Taurasi knows her stuff. She said that Dallas Wings rookie Paige Beckers, the UConn player who was drafted number one. She said she'll become the best player in the league for sure. So she's been a phenom since she was in the sixth grade. She's not the playmaker of Caitlin Clark, but she's a better pure scorer eventually. Better shooter, better. Well, just better pure score. So it's very possible in back to back years you're going to get the two most popular WNBA players. Ever happened with Magic and Bird in the NBA. It just different players, big brands. It happened. Listen, Mahomes got drafted in 2017, Josh Allen got drafted in 2018, both in the AFC. I'd argue two most popular players in the NFL. So Paige Becker was, when she was at UConn, she was the women's college basketball player of the year as a freshman. She was much better than Caitlin Clark much earlier in life. Much better. Caitlin Clark, however, played for a college program that we didn't watch or care about until she arrived. Paige Becker has Gino oriemma's brand, the UConn women's basketball brand. The greatest of all time. Gino's the best coach. That's the biggest brand. It's like being a quarterback at Alabama with Saban. The quarterback kind of gets lost behind Saban. The brand, the defense, you know, just the factory that is Alabama. And so Paige Beckers will probably never be quite as popular because of her route and because Caitlin Clark also has a unique game where she's shooting from 38ft. Caitlin Clark's more of a comet. But if you're talking about who's the better player, there's an argument Paige Beckers will be the better player. And I'll say it again, it is. It's hard to explain popularity. Big guys like Shaq and Giannis have never sold shoes. Jokic can't sell shoes. Right. Like some guys can sell them. I don't know. I mean, I look at it. Nick Wright stopped by yesterday talking about Caitlin Clark and her effect around the NBA. I would encourage people who are big time pre Caitlin Clark, WNBA fans, WWE or women's basketball fans to embrace this rather than push back against it. Do you know who the biggest beneficiaries of Tiger woods were? Other golfers? I think, you know, one of the biggest winners from Caitlin Clark is going to be Asia Wilson, who is still the best player in the sport. I think Paige Beckers, who could be a real rivalry with Caitlin Clark over the next decade. She's a winner from this. Yeah, it's. I mean, if you look at the history of superstars in sports, they almost always have. They're kind of the same in age, like Messi and Ronaldo, Peyton Manning and Brady Mahomes and Josh Allen. Magic and Bird, I mean, you know, I don't know their exact ages, but, you know, I grew up in the. You know, the Ollie and Fraser, Sugar Ray Leonard and Hagler is. You generally need conflict. It doesn't matter if one's a villain. It didn't matter if Magic or Bird were more popular. They were both popular and both had very parochial tribal followings. Lakers and Celtics. So if you look through five WNBA games, Paige Beckers is very close to Caitlin Clark now. Caitlin scoring more, but again, she's been in the league. And it's very hard at any level to go from college to professional in your first five games. I don't care who you are. But Paige Beckers is in the sixth grade. There's a legendary picture of her in the sixth grade where she was the best sixth grader in the country. There's an argument she is the better basketball talent. And I think it's very possible. Yeah, there's the. It's funny. I think it's very, very possible that we've got a Brady Manning thing here or a Mickelson Tiger thing here. In tennis, men's tennis, you had three. You had Nadal, Federer and Djokovic. So that was rare when you had three greatest players probably of all time. Federer, I think's a little older, but all playing, all rivals, all kind of got along. But I think, and let's not make it more than it is, like, well, why are they. Why are they the two most popular players? They're new. Who can explain popularity? It's impossible to explain. It's like the Rock didn't go to Juilliard School of Acting. He demands the biggest paycheck in Hollywood. He's a pro wrestler. Arnold was the governor of California. I can't explain it. You would have never guessed Arnold Schwarzenegger as an action star. You would have laughed if I suggested, yes, he will be as a moderate to a conservative, the governor of California. Sometimes it can be hard to understand. He's got a lot of alpha. He smokes a lot of cigars. Maybe the governor of California, who can explain it. It's like I tell my kids, like, don't wake up seeking happiness. It's a rainbow. You could be happy one minute, sad the next. Wake up with a purpose. You'll find happiness. Or happiness will find you being popular. I can't explain it. There are politicians I love. They can't win elections or don't or lose elections regularly. I can't explain it, but I do think Paige Beckers and Caitlin Clark. I think it's very possible in two years they're the two most popular players in the WNBA and not necessarily the two best. Asia Wilson is a better player right now for the Las Vegas Ace. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture.
- [39:18]
Greg Olson
Stories that, well, other shows don't seem.
- [39:21]
Colin Cowherd
To have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino Enriched Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Ko Vino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich.
- [39:52]
Jay Mac
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- [40:52]
Colin Cowherd
Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn or it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the tit. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game. With an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started. Well, with the Gemini credit card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini credit card is pretty much a no brainer. And right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again, go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit card is issued by Web Bank. In order to Qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves Risk for more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Well, Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since 1993 and we are watching an Indiana team fly through Milwaukee, Cleveland, the Knicks, and Rachel's now joining us live. Rach, I've said I don't think this is an anti nick series. I think what we're watching is an ascending superstar who put up a line last night that only Oscar Robertson is rivaled. I I think we're watching the next great NBA player and because he's not vertical or doesn't drop 42, we're not quite sure what to do with it. But it's a lot of Magic Johnson to me.
- [44:22]
John Morgan
Yeah, look, he is so much fun to watch, right? First of all, and he's the kind of guy that if you your team wasn't playing against him, you'd want Tyrese Haliburton on your team. He plays the right way. Obviously, that stat line he put up last night to be able to do 30, 15, 10, no turnovers, I mean, it really is just absolutely crazy what he was able to do. Plus, he's got the bravado, right? He's got the swag. He's got everything you want. If you are a fan of basketball and you're right, he makes the right plays, he does it the right way. He's not dropping 40 or 50 every night. But if you like the game, you like the way Tyrese Halliburton plays ball.
- [44:57]
Colin Cowherd
You know, one of the things, the advantage to losing a series is that you know your deficiencies. Okay, we don't do this well and the Knicks front office has been really patient in this rebuild and I don't think they need a ton. But it's pretty clear that Cat and Brunson, you know many of Cat's best moments and when Brunson's not on the floor because I think Brunson plays better with a catch and shoot guy like Kevin Durant. So my take is it's nothing wrong with Cat and Brunson, but we do have a minus 24 when they're on the court together and they're not great defensively. Do you think the KD thing, which it feels like. He checks boxes. I get length, I get experience. I get catch and shoot. What do you make of the just a suggestion of that?
- [45:45]
John Morgan
I mean, look, I assume then you mean you're swapping him out for Karl Anthony Town. I'm not sure if the Knicks are going to want to do that. Just a year into the CAT experiment. I think you hit it on the head when you talked about the plus minus. The issue to me of Kat and Brunson on the floor together is not so much offensively. It's defensively. You've got two targets out there. And when you get to this level of the playoffs, when you get to the final Four, this elite, elite level of basketball and shot making, you cannot have two targets out there at the same time. And that is the biggest lesson I think the Knicks are going to learn from this as they go into the off season. I would expect them to pursue guys who maybe aren't as big fancy names, but like a Walker Kessler from Utah, somebody who can give them a little bit more of that presence without having to tear up the team they have because they like this team and they should like this team. This team got to the conference finals for the first time in that city in 25 years. I would not make huge changes, but I would clean up around the edges. And that is one of the biggest places to me to clean up.
- [46:45]
Colin Cowherd
So listen, OKC is going to win this series. I don't think there's any question. I said this yesterday. We forget that ant is 23 years old and SGA is 26. And you can see it. It's like seeing Mahomes as a rookie and Mahomes in year five. He's way better pre snap. He sees the field. I don't think. I think sometimes Ant can be a little collaborative. I think he should be a bit more aggressive. But what is your sort of take in what you're hearing about this series where he feels like, you know, not in SGA's league?
- [47:14]
John Morgan
Well, look, you nailed it. He's got two or three more years before he is where Sage, Gildre, Alexander. I should just say SGA too, right? I'm going to say that yeah, he's got two more years before he's where SGA is as well and we see it. And I think that he's going to learn this off season and work on things like moving without the ball. Right. More catch and shoot. Yes. You do have to be more aggressive to your point, even when the defense is smothering you and playing the anyone but you game. I think we are seeing Anthony Edwards develop and the reason we are so excited about him is that he has the talent, he has the drive, he has all of the moves in his bag and he obviously has the personality to be a huge superstar in this league. And our excitement about that, we can't forget that he is not yet where we are projecting him to be. The reason we're excited is because he's not there yet. Because we know he can do more than this. So let's let him do it. Before we declare a kid who's 20, 23 years old and has been in the Western Conference finals now for two consecutive seasons a failure in some way, which is what you're starting to hear around the sort of blogosphere. And I just don't get it. This kid has delivered everything you could ask for and he, I promise you he will get better. I promise you he is going to continue to grow.
- [48:25]
Colin Cowherd
So I want to go, I want to segue back to the Pacers and the Knicks because Listen, the Pacers are 110 in every playoff game, not Game 3. Meaning they go into Milwaukee, win two, lose Game 3, they go into Cleveland, win two, lose Game 3. Same with New York. So to me, Game 3, when you're up 2 0, when you've stolen two road games, it's, it's foot off the gas. Like this team, to me, in the most important games, starting a series and ending it, they're undefeated. It's insane what they're doing. And I look at, outside of Miles Turner, their cap sheet, very clean. And you know, is Indiana a team? I mean, I gotta tell you, when I watch Halliburton, he doesn't even lead the Pacers in usage rate, like totally attractive. If I'm a shooter to play with Halliburton, will they be active, you believe in a trade or free agency?
- [49:24]
John Morgan
Look, they've done a great job building that team around him. So I think, yeah, they will continue to try to do that. But what we're seeing with all of these Final four teams now is really smart front offices that have built teams the right way. We killed the Knicks for years, right about all their bad. Free office, front agent, free agency and front office moves. Leon Rose comes in, they built a very smart team. Tim Connelly in Minnesota, one of the best team builders out there. Sam Presti, Oklahoma City won executive of the year multiple times. These are well built teams and organizations. And for all of the chatter that you and I are going to Talk this summer about trades and free agency and all of that stuff and the big names and who goes where. It's the organizations who know how to build a complete squad. A squad that can go 10 deep the way the Pacers can legitimately. Not like fake 10 deep. You'll see that in Oklahoma City too. If these are the two teams that get to the finals. These are teams, man. And I think especially in an age with, you know, multiple aprons and salary caps and CBAs, you need a full complete team because you can't just build on stars in the same way anymore.
- [50:25]
Colin Cowherd
Finally, Austin Reeves agent came out and said you better stop talking about trading him for second tier centers. Obviously the game playing, you know, is starting for. But it does lead, it does lead me to believe that his agents talking about it. So he's come to terms with. They are considering moving him. Yeah. What are the chances would they? You know, these days the free agency feels more dead. Everybody gets traded. They sign the max, then you move them. If Austin Reaves, do you believe he'll be a Laker after the trade deadline next year?
- [50:56]
John Morgan
After the trade deadline next year. Look, I think they are going to have to probably give up Austin Reaves to get what they need, which is an interior defense presence, preferably someone who can rim, ride, run right the way Derek Lively did with Luca when they were in Dallas. And they also need more three and wings. So to get all of that stuff, I don't think that Austin Reeves can stay in your asset coffers. But I don't know if it's going to happen this summer. We'll have to see what Rob Polinka can do. There was a lot of criticism sort of of the Lakers and the Lakers construction and the way the team was after that first round series and the way they lost that series. I don't think that's fair because when you get the chance to make the Luka Doncic trade, you make the Luka Doncic trade and then you figure it all out later. Well, the figuring it all out later comes this summer. It didn't come a few weeks ago. It didn't come at the trade deadline. That was just about getting Luka. But this summer they have got to figure it out and they have to put players around him, around Luka that fit better, that fit around an aging LeBron and Austin Reaves unfortunately as well like to see is that organization and they love him there. I do think he will probably end up having to give him up to get the other pieces. You need and you need them. You can't waste this. You got Luka Doncic dropped in your lap.
- [52:02]
Greg Olson
Yeah.
- [52:03]
Colin Cowherd
And you can have Giannis in the west as well. Rachel Nichols, as always, great seeing you, Rach. Thanks.
- [52:07]
John Morgan
Thanks.
- [52:10]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, you know, it. It's. If we've done this before, where we watch, like, I watched the Denver Nuggets. I was a total sucker. I'm like, they're going to reel off four. Like, I. There are certain teams, like when the warriors won with Andrew Wiggins, beat the Celtics, you're like, that's the last one. They're not going to win another one. Love Jimmy Butler, but they're not built to win a championship. But I watched the Celtics with Tatum, and I'm like, oh, they got a couple in them, and then they don't. And then all of a sudden they have a new owner and they're up against the cap, and you're like, yeah, this thing may not end as well as we think. I watched Denver. I fell for it. I don't look at OKC and think they're going to win six because I think eventually Giannis is going to go to Houston or San Antonio and block that or Golden State. But I look at Indy and I'm like, yeah, I could see Halliburton putting up Oscar Robertson numbers. Everybody's looking at okc, but Boston's not going to be as good next year. New York isn't clearly as good. Cleveland isn't good. Milwaukee isn't good. How do we know that Indy from the much easier east isn't the dynasty team? I mean, I'm watching them guys. They're 11 and 0. To Milwaukee, 2 and oh, to Cleveland, 2 and oh, to New York, 2 and oh, that's unheard of. That's not the way it works. And Halliburton's putting up Oscar Robertson numbers. We have all. We all believe, like, Oklahoma City's gonna win seven. What if Wemby goes to San Antonio or Houston or Golden State? Well, then Oklahoma City, it's just going to be really, really good teams. Very good teams, each getting a shot at it. Like Denver, very good. Deep Minnesota. I could see them all winning one. In the East, I could see Indy ruling it for a while. That's how good Halliburton is. Our three. Bruce Feldman stops by. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.comleaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant, and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And degree listens. That doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and they're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target, and other stores now for under four bucks. So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself. Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's. Made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's Soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should, too. Distilled and bottled by Fifth Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.