Unknown (5:34)

LeBron's playing at an all NBA defense level. He is, you know, people may have perceptions of what he is as a defender. I watch it every night. He doesn't get scored on in isolation when if teams do try to target him, he blows plays up. You know, I think there was this perception of him at this age, like conserving energy. Now there's no conservation of energy on that end of the floor.

Dan Woike (5:59)

And with that, Dan Woicke, the LA Times is joining us in studio. And I so appreciate this. I text a friend, Maverick Carter's a friend. You know, Maverick. Maverick's underneath the basket, but once a year he gives me his tickets. So Maverick Carter, a really good guy and was a high school teammate of LeBron. And I said, I don't even know what I watched last night in the fourth quarter, I'm like, that was insane. The energy was palpable.

JJ Redick (6:25)

Yeah.

Dan Woike (6:26)

And I do feel like, not that he's like conserving it, but I do feel like LeBron. It sometimes felt like, man, I would like to let somebody else run the show a little bit and play off ball. Does it feel different to you in the last five or six games?

JJ Redick (6:41)

I think it's an interesting question, Colin. Like, I think that there was a time, right, where we heard about the torch being passed. Right. Or wanting help. He wants help playmaking and stuff. But then when it came, like time to actually do it, he didn't. And I think part of that was because he was always the best option. Yes, right. It's always like the ball in LeBron. It's kind of sometimes why he's been hard to coach is that what better play is it than give LeBron James the ball?

Dan Woike (7:07)

Think about this, Dan in Cleveland, as great and skillful as Kyrie was, he ended up being an off guard a lot. And I would argue Kyrie is as skilled as any player I've ever seen with the ball in his hands.

JJ Redick (7:18)

He's incredible. And he was great last night too.

Dan Woike (7:20)

Yeah. So I think your point is this is a little bit of LeBron saying, okay, I've met my equal at initiating offense.

JJ Redick (7:27)

He said something this year. You know, being around him now, basically every day since he's been in Los Angeles, by and large. I've never heard him hear him say that somebody is better than him at stuff. Like, that's just not what he's. That's not how he's built. He said, Luka Doncic does the same stuff as me and some of it even better. And I think at this stage in his career, having somebody who can do that, it does sort of shift LeBron into. I call it, like, Olympics. LeBron.

Dan Woike (7:52)

Yeah, yeah.

JJ Redick (7:53)

Like. Like the version of him we saw in Paris where you're controlling the game, but maybe you don't have the ball all the time. Like, you're doing all of these little things.

Dan Woike (8:00)

He's such a great company.

JJ Redick (8:02)

Yeah, he's such a basketball savant. He's so smart at finding ways to matter and ways to, like, make differences in games. And. Yeah, it's on the offensive end. That clip of jj, that was a question I asked him Post game about LeBron's defense, like, the last six weeks or so. Defensively, like, LeBron has been excellent, and they've been good with Anthony Davis. They've been good when Anthony Davis was hurt.

Dan Woike (8:25)

Their last 19 games are the best defensive team in the league. Now, here's the question, though, and I'd said this for years about Carmelo Anthony. He scored 29. He'd give up 22.

JJ Redick (8:36)

But that still works.

Dan Woike (8:37)

No. Do you. Do you worry, though, that reaves LeBron? The Lakers do feel a little top heavy. Yeah. Reeves, LeBron, Luca, all playmakers. Mavs have one, but the Mavs have size. Do that. Mark Williams trade, I thought would have made a real difference. Do you worry that Luca's defense will eventually be a liability?

JJ Redick (8:59)

Yeah, I mean, I think they're not a. They're not a perfect team in any real way. I think the things they're great at, they're great at. And that gives you. That gives you a chance in this league. Right. If you can. If you can manipulate the game in the way where your strengths mask your weaknesses. And I think the way the Lakers have been masking their defensive weaknesses has been with overall team effort. You know, this is a group that has played incredibly hard. You know, Austin Reeves is a really smart defender, even though he has some athletic limitations. Luka Doncic is huge. He is a. He's a big player, and he gets into passing lanes. He creates turnovers. Now, does he get beat off the dribble? Sure, it happens. But when he's engaged, like, I mean, you know, forget last night's game for a minute. Let's Talk about Saturday in Denver, you know, where they win by 23. Masterful defensive game plan against a team they haven't been able to solve. Luca didn't look like, you know, a negative defender in that game. And I think at times when he's been engaged, he's been a pretty good defender.

Dan Woike (9:55)

He's actually a very good rebounder when he wants to. Last night he was great. Yeah. Like, Luke is one of those guys that. And LeBron's got a little bit of this. Magic Johnson was good at this. Magic. We needed to play center and score 42. Like, like Luka, when you ask him to be around the basket, he is a big, thick body. He can clean the glass. I mean, last night's first half, I think he had like 10 rebounds at half.

JJ Redick (10:14)

Yeah. And I know we'll get to the warriors in a minute, but I do think when you have great players that are also smart players.

Dan Woike (10:19)

Yeah.

JJ Redick (10:20)

It just helps this process move along much quicker than it might otherwise. Right. Like, we'll. We'll see with this Lakers group. I think to your point about LeBron, like, there is sort of a, you know, when this trade first happened, there was a feeling around the organization that, like this, the Lakers been provided an off ramp. Right. That they can move now in this direction where they don't need LeBron James the same way they needed him six weeks ago. They have a future. I think what they're seeing now is like the immediate future is maybe even more Luke and LeBron than they realized should LeBron want to do it. And we'll see how long he wants to do this. But they have real chances. They have a. It feels like they have a real chance this year. Yeah, I think with an off season to like perfectly architect the roster around the guys that you have in the core that you have certainly will have a chance there. And they're also catching Luka Doncic at like sort of the perfect time.

Dan Woike (11:16)

You know, it's funny, when J.J. redick got the job, I had heard this about Redick. He's very arrogant. He went to Duke. And my take is I am okay with arrogance as long as it's accompanied with self awareness. JJ's got both. JJ's a very good looking, very confident. I mean, he's made a lot of money. He's been very successful. He's also got self awareness. He can laugh at himself. He knows when he's over the top is. And I think if you go look at LeBron's history, even if he doesn't always Agree with Eric's Foelstra. He respects his iq, Right. He respects. And I, and I really do believe he respects Tai Lu. There is something about JJ Redick is that I think this job could, the Lakers job is engulfed certain coaches, they didn't have enough like arrogance. They didn't have enough confidence. Oh, Darvin Ham sometimes felt I got, got a little engulfed by it. I think JJ when I watch him, like he's absolutely sure his way is right. And for the record, so far it.

JJ Redick (12:17)

Has been, I think the thing with JJ and you mentioned arrogance and that's a word that comes up with him a lot. Yeah, it's certainly the first impression. It's also paired with open mindedness.

Dan Woike (12:28)

Yes, absolutely.

JJ Redick (12:29)

Which is a unique combination. You know, usually like people who are arrogant believe their way is the best because it's their way. Not necessarily because it's a way they've cultivated through conversations with, you know, everybody from the guy who, you know, sells him his pomade to like, you know, whoever. Like, if you've got a good basketball idea like JJ Redick will listen to it. That's the reality of it. I think coaching is really hard to judge, generally speaking. You know, being there at night and night out, it's not always the showiest thing because players do what they do. Basketball is very free flowing. I think the things that I'm hearing behind the scenes, things about, you know, communication like making sure that you're, you're touching base with players on a very regular basis, like following his gut, his.

Unknown (13:14)

Instincts and he's an authentic JJ Redick.

Dan Woike (13:17)

Is a very authentic guy.

JJ Redick (13:19)

Correct.

Dan Woike (13:19)

And so very direct. He's very direct like, but he's not Kurt. He's direct without being mean spirited. He's. He'll tell you exactly what he feels, but he says it with a smile. He says it like, hey man, this is what I believe. I just think JJ Redick, there was some concern. He's a podcaster. He absolutely feels big enough for the job. Yeah.

JJ Redick (13:38)

I think, you know, the way that I've kind of settled on this with him is that if you look at, you know, you'll say he didn't have enough experience. Right. Well, like, if the most important part of being an NBA coach is relating to your players. Right. And I, I believe that to be mostly true. You know, he was a star among stars as a college basketball player.

Unknown (13:57)

Right.

JJ Redick (13:58)

Like biggest in the country. You know, a total villain in a, in a way that very few people are. He was a rookie who couldn't crack A rotation and had to sit on the end of a bench of a contender. He was a ascending player, like looking for a bigger role. He was a starter. He was then a vet. And then he was a guy whose body equipped like. He's basically lived every basketball, NBA life in the course of his career.

Dan Woike (14:21)

What I remember about him as a player, beyond shooting and Duke, before Steph Curry became a star, I'd never seen a player work harder off the ball. Yeah, he was a cardio machine. If you guarded JJ Reddit, you had.

JJ Redick (14:32)

To chase him around the floor system unto himself.

Dan Woike (14:35)

Yep. All right, I want to talk about Jimmy Butler. So I read a couple of stories when. About when, before Jimmy Butler, when the warriors happened. And there were analytic people that said, you know, I don't know if it works enough shooting.

JJ Redick (14:46)

Yeah.

Dan Woike (14:46)

And my take was no, he's the anti wiggins. He's intentional on every possession. He plays with intensity that, you know, when he's on the floor, he's never lost. I don't think he will rub Draymond the wrong way because Draymond calls out people who often need to be called out. Jimmy doesn't. In fact, you could say, scale it down this. To me, I felt his EQ and his iq, I'm like, just get him in this system. It'll work. And I don't know what the analytics say it has. Are you a little surprised it's worked this well?

JJ Redick (15:19)

No, I think that, you know, you touched on two of the things. I think EQ in the NBA is a thing that you hear a lot now, like emotional intelligence, like, how do you fit in these systems? And I think, you know, Jimmy is so competitive, so competitive. And you've put him in an environment where competition has thrived. Right. Like this is a group that has won at the highest level and they've done it in back to back seasons as a core and Stephan Draymond and Steve Kerr, to do that, you have to have just this incredible competitive endurance. You can't do it otherwise, it's too hard. And so I think he fits in that. I think that they are a very mature team when it comes to their culture. So, like, it can handle personalities. It's not foreign to them at all. And I think that, you know, I, like I said before, with like LeBron and Luka and Austin Reeves, to a degree, you just tend to trust smart players. Right. Like figured out guys. And Jimmy Butler is a figured out guy. He hasn't been a good shooter since he's been in the NBA. It hasn't stopped him from winning, like, like it really hasn't. It's not like, you know, his athleticism has changed. Like, it hasn't stopped him, like his availability and stuff like that. And Miami had their reasons for moving on and Jimmy had his reasons for wanting to be out to it.

Dan Woike (16:30)

He wanted a lot of years, a lot of money. And that wasn't exactly totally.

JJ Redick (16:33)

But I think in this situation, for a team like Golden State, right, like I think similar to the Lakers, there was a feeling that there's an opportunity here in the Western Conference. There is a, a lurking giant literally in Victor Wembanyama and in San Antonio. Right. Like assuming he'll recover and stuff like that. You have the Oklahoma City Thunder, who, if it's not this year, will be soon. That roster is built to win and built to win for a long time. But right now there's a feeling that there's a chance to be had. When you talk to teams around the.

Dan Woike (17:04)

West, I don't think Houston's can shoot well enough. I think in situational basketball, Houston will come up basket shy. Sure, they'll have the athleticism, they can defend, they can, but they're, they're not a shooting team. And you tighten people up in a playoff game. And I think Oklahoma City also feels like to me, they're a year away and they're going to be looking for buckets outside of SGA and if you can lock him down again. These playoff. When I play a team seven times and we're all equally rested. Warriors, Lakers, these older teams, Denver, I think the Warriors. I mean, if I said to you right now OKC ends up with Golden.

JJ Redick (17:42)

State, I mean, I think I would lean Thunder. But it's close. Much closer than a 18 should be. Yep. And I think it's because of the experience. It's because of, you know, we've just seen it so many times with these groups. Golden State can match some of their physicality. Now with Jimmy Butler, they don't have the size. They're gonna, they're gonna be hurt against teams that have size. And that's what's interesting about the west is like there's also all these just like really unique matchups. There are teams that are, that are coming at this in very different ways. And, and I think, you know, Minnesota is going to be coming here. They're getting better, getting healthier at the right time playing defense. I know Chris Finch is a little happier about where they've been defensively. Just had a huge win in Oklahoma City themselves. I, I think all of these teams are, are, can, can look at themselves in the mirror, like six or seven teams incredibly Memphis and say like this, the time is now for us. Like Memphis has been, you know, kind of at the doorstep a bunch of times. Like are they really ready to win now? Like we'll find out. I, I think it's, it's going to be a really good playoff.

Dan Woike (18:44)

So it's interesting. There are teams that I think that are very authentic and you know exactly what they are and I'll tell you why. The Knicks are this, The Cavs and the Celtics are very good pick and roll teams and the Knicks can't defend it. Carl Anthony Towns is a brilliant offensive player. He's really skilled. Chris Finch told me yesterday. He goes, I knew he was good then, I coached him and it's, he is so good, he can't defend the pick and roll. Brunson's not great at it and Cleveland is so efficient that I just think when you look at the Knicks, I think they're a step away. I think Karl Anthony Towns gets them to elite, gets them to a place. Offensively they get off of Julius Randle. He makes him a better offensive team. But I think when you look at the Knicks, they are absolutely not built, they're not constructed to beat the Cavs and the Celtics. They just can't defend them well.

JJ Redick (19:35)

You know, they've struggled against good teams this year. I think defensively they've really struggled against good teams and to me that it's just, there's a disconnect. Right. Because you have such a defensive minded head coach. You have, you have the type of, you know, your coaches and a lot of times your coaches and your best players are what drive your identity and like it does feel like their identities are moving in different directions.

Dan Woike (19:56)

Direction. That's right. You know, better offensive.

JJ Redick (19:58)

They're, they're a terrific offensive team with a top tier defensive coach and I think you'd want a little more alignment there. In a perfect world, you know, it is a little bit, it feels a little bit like an overcorrection. We'll see what happens. If they're able to get Mitchell Robinson back and like can get him into shape and playing like, will that help? It'll help some, but it just feels like at their core who, who they are is a team that's going to outscore you and that they have to outscore you. And when you have put time and money and assets into players like OG Anunoby and Mikel Bridges and Josh Hart, guys that are there largely to make sure it's hard for the other team to score. You would like to see that sort of personality kind of permeate the entire roster. The way it's just, quite frankly, it doesn't. Like the night of the Luka Dacis trade, right? This feels like ancient history now. Like, the Lakers without Anthony Davis, like, had no problems with Carl Towns because he was 24ft away from the basket all game, right? And they didn't exploit their size advantages, they didn't exploit their toughness advantages in that game. And that's been kind of a recurring theme against teams that can spread them out. And Cleveland and Boston are going to spread you out. Like that is what they do. And they're going to put Carl Towns into rotations, they're going to make them scramble. And, you know, it's just, it's. It's hard if one of your best players is, you know, one of your biggest weaknesses on the defensive end.

Dan Woike (21:26)

Finally, let's wrap it up. Let's pivot back to the Lakers. It's one thing to cover a player. It's another thing to see a player occasionally. When you're around Luka, you're at practice with Luka, you're in the locker room with Luka. What does he like to cover? Is there a joyfulness around him? Because it seems like he's bringing that out of LeBron.

JJ Redick (21:44)

I think for him right now, there's still shock. He's still somebody who is dealing with the emotional baggage from this trade.

Dan Woike (21:51)

I thought last night at the end of the game, he looked a little shot.

JJ Redick (21:54)

He was exhausted last night. Like it. Colin Joe at that game reminded me of a little bit. Do you remember doing, like, the presidential fitness testing when you were a kid? Like, where you'd have to.

Dan Woike (22:03)

Yes, yes.

JJ Redick (22:03)

That game went out way too fast. In lap one of the mile, it was like, you know, just this horrible cramp after the first quarter was so much emotion expended in that game. And then it kind of sputtered to the finish before LeBron was able to. To really pull it through. I think big picture, luka being around LeBron can have just as much for Luka as it does for LeBron in terms of what it takes day in, day out to have your body ready to play at a consistent level. You know, what. What it takes to. To make others great. Obviously, Luka knows how to do all that stuff, but seeing that and seeing a player that he's loved since he was 13, 14 years old.

Dan Woike (22:39)

He's a really giving down court passer and sometimes it's different from when he drives and dishes because there's an immediate payoff. But when you pass the ball down the floor, you're often eliminating yourself from the play. Sure, you're, you're taking yourself out. And a lot of guys, LeBron's always been great at that. Not all offensive players are. They kind of want to bring the ball up.

JJ Redick (23:00)

It's LeBron, Luka and Jokic are the three best at it and the Lakers have two of them.

Dan Woike (23:04)

It's incredible to watch him. He is so, I mean, he is the classic quarterback in this league.

JJ Redick (23:09)

And LeBron said the other day, right, like LeBron said, he's built to be a receiver. We can argue about whether he can do both, certainly. But I think, I think the biggest thing that I've seen being around Luka right now, right, is like there is somebody who has a fire and wants to prove Dallas wrong. Like you can see that, like he is carrying scar tissue from this trade. And I do you also see a player that is incrementally getting more used to. Like, I mean, Colin, look at this. This looks insane. It's Luka Donches in a Lakers jersey. It still looks weird and, but you know, you're seeing a player who's getting every day, like fractionally more comfortable with it. And come April, come May, you're seeing a player too who loves the spotlight, loves the big stage. And I mean, every night it feels like it's a pretty big stage when you got him on the court with.

Dan Woike (23:56)

LeBron James, LA Times. Dan Wojke, great seeing you again, my man.

JJ Redick (23:59)

Thanks, Colin.

Dan Woike (24:00)

Do we have a coffee machine up here? We should give our guests. We don't have parting gifts, but a nice Cafe Americano out the door would be a nice thing.

Unknown (24:06)

How about that?

JJ Redick (24:07)

No one's ever said, I need more caffeine.

Dan Woike (24:08)

Colin, this is the first ever live in LA. It's the herd.

Unknown (24:12)

One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Dan Woike (24:21)

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Colin Cowherd (24:57)

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Mary Kay McBrayer (25:14)

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Woike (25:43)

Everyone's forgotten who runs this valley.

JJ Redick (25:45)

Time to remind them.

Unknown (25:47)

Yellowstone fans, step into the Yellowstone universe.

Unknown (25:51)

Our family legacy is this ranch and.

JJ Redick (25:53)

I protect it of my life.

Unknown (25:56)

Hosted by Bobby Bones, the official Yellowstone Podcast takes you deeper into the franchise that's captivated millions worldwide. Action Explore untold behind the scenes stories, exclusive cast interviews and in depth discussions about the themes and legacy of Yellowstone.

Dan Woike (26:15)

You know, the first students to settle this valley fighting was all they knew.

Unknown (26:20)

Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the ranch, welcome to the Yellowstone. Bobby Bones has everything you need to stay connected to the Yellowstone phenomenon.

JJ Redick (26:30)

I look forward to it.

Unknown (26:31)

Listen to the official Yellowstone Podcast now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Unknown (26:40)

Let's go to work.

Dan Woike (26:42)

Well, I hope you did not miss the greatest list that has ever been on a cable network. Earlier when I had my dynamic dozen. I'm getting some pushback that I did not excluded one New York basketball player from Villanova, second rounder who is known as kind of a grinder, overachiever. I probably should have had him maybe at 12, but I'm sorry. Rick Patino's a rock star. Always has been. As a coach.

Unknown (27:07)

Yeah, that. That's what you're labeling. Jalen Brunson is an overachiever. Not all NBA superstar.

Dan Woike (27:14)

Yeah. So this, this again is being labeled as the greatest list of all time on cable television. I said New York, LA, Chicago, the 12 most dynamic stars. People can push back. Maybe I should have Aaron Judge ahead of Harbaugh. But Jim Harbaugh is literally doing national commercials. He's a rock star. He changed Big Ten ratings, he national championship, been to Super Bowls. Everybody knows Jim Harbaugh.

Unknown (27:37)

Didn't you have a list earlier of the most. What is it? The highest valued franchises in sports. And the Knicks were like top three. And their best player, Jalen Brunson, doesn't sniff this list.

Dan Woike (27:47)

Second round pick.

Unknown (27:48)

So what?

Dan Woike (27:49)

A little bit of. A little bit of a grinder.

Unknown (27:51)

What's wrong with being a grinder?

Dan Woike (27:52)

He's a little anti hero.

Unknown (27:54)

So we're only doing top picks here. Oh, LeBron Lucas, you're an elitist. You like superstars. Caleb Williams, number one pick. What does he accomplished?

Dan Woike (28:03)

This is not just an accomplished list. I said dynamic. It's called the dynamic does. I don't think Jalen's a dynamic personality. And he is.

Unknown (28:14)

I mean, basically, Justin Herbert's the opposite.

Dan Woike (28:17)

He's a quarterback in the NFL. The NFL is a thousand times more popular and quarterbacks are.

Unknown (28:24)

But the Knicks are a thousand times more popular than the Chargers, based on your valuation list.

Dan Woike (28:28)

Okay, I got Jalen at 13.

Unknown (28:30)

13. Gosh.

Dan Woike (28:31)

I only got Justin Herbert at 11.

Unknown (28:33)

Hater.

Dan Woike (28:33)

J. Mac with the news. No, turn on the news. This is the Herdline news.

Unknown (28:40)

I can never tell if the audience loves it when you're right or. Or just can't stand it because this Aaron Rodgers take you had is starting to maybe come to fruition. According to the New York Daily News, Aaron Rodgers prefers to play for the Rams next season. And not only that, he wants to bring a buddy, Devonte Adams with him. Now, you have floated for a couple weeks now that Rodgers to the Rams makes sense. Listen, they move on for Cooper cup and they add Devonte Adams to Puka Nakua, Kyren Williams. That's.

Dan Woike (29:11)

Listen, it makes sense is when you look at what happened. Just take Brett Favre. When, when, when. Where did Russell Wilson want to go when he was in dysfunction? He wanted to go to Pittsburgh, which may underachieve, but it's not dysfunctional. Tom Brady had been in super function in New England, so he was willing to go to an organization that was a little wonky, Tampa. And so what you find is Aaron had all this stability in Green Bay like Favre did. Favre and Aaron go to the jets and go, holy hell, get me out of here. So what did Barb do? Let me go to the Vikings. They're well run. I'll. I won't have chaos around me. And I think Aaron's saying, listen, I tried the thing in New York. I like stability. I'm a grown up. I do my own workouts. I don't. I don't need to be chased around. I mean, Aaron can go hide in Malibu and with The Rams. I mean, you never see Matt Stafford out. This is not New York, where it's always, you know, I mean, Woody Johnson isn't close to Stan Kroenke in terms of the formidable owner Aaron Rodgers to the Rams. I don't think it's going to happen because I think they're going to resign Stafford, but that's who I would go get.

Unknown (30:19)

So let's say they resigned Stafford. Where does Rogers go?

Dan Woike (30:23)

Vegas feels right. Slow down. Chip Kelly, Pete Carroll, Brock Bowers, Max Crosby. But I think what Aaron. What Aaron is seeking here is not only a good organization, but what he is seeking is what he had in Green Bay, which is grown ups and stability. And you just don't get that with the Jets. You just don't. The owner just got voted 32 out of 32 by jets players in an anonymous poll.

Unknown (30:50)

That's not a surprise. Devonte Adams is still under contract with the Jets.

Dan Woike (30:55)

Don't need Devonte Adams.

Unknown (30:57)

If the jets release him, they clear 29 mil in cap space. Love that.

Dan Woike (31:02)

Yeah, but they're trying to get rid of Cooper Cup. The Rams don't need Devonte Adams.

Unknown (31:05)

Sorry, I'm saying you don't think the Rams would take Devonte Adams?

Dan Woike (31:08)

He's best friends with Rogers, doesn't have any leverage. He would be lucky to get the Rams. He doesn't have any leverage. This is not the Jets. Aaron's going to go there and he's not going to tell people who to bring with me. Devonte Adams is the last thing they need. They don't.

Unknown (31:24)

They.

Dan Woike (31:25)

You know, they've got a number one puka. What they have to do is find their next star in the draft.

Unknown (31:30)

Well, they're the rest of their depth chart at receivers very uncertain. Colin, they have Cooper Cup's going to be gone. DeMarcus Robinson, free agent.

Dan Woike (31:36)

Two.

Unknown (31:37)

Two out. Well, give me a break. They need somebody at receiver. Do you just say, hey, bring your buddy Devonte Adams to Rogers?

Dan Woike (31:45)

Have you seen how much he costs? I. I have if you're going to pay Stafford and if you're paying Stafford all right, then. Then you're. I'm going to have to pay if he leaves. I got to pay Aaron and now I got to pay devonte Adams. And what if I can't get rid of Cooper Cup? I got so much money in just wide receiver.

Unknown (32:04)

It's a tough one. It's not gonna be easy for the Rams, that's for sure. But the jets are. They're looking great. All right, let's move on to. Oh, gosh, we're now talking about the Patriots again, because you love them next season. Mike Vrabel has a lot of work to do to get this team back to the postseason. They do have Drake May, so they're in the right direction. But he spoke about the challenge of getting back to their winning ways yesterday at the combine.

Unknown (32:27)

Our expectations aren't going to change. It's going to be the win of the division, it's going to be the host home playoff games, and it's going to be to compete for championships. That's why we're here. That's why I got hired. And it's to win. It's put a product on the field that they can be excited about, that they can care about and they can support. That's the whole goal. And I don't. They shouldn't have to wait very long. But we also have to understand that we're not going to fix every issue on the first day of free agency or we're not going to fill every hole on the first or second day of the draft.

Dan Woike (33:01)

Listen, they have the most cap space. They, they will get minimum three starters out of the draft because they're lacking certain speed elements. They'll probably get four starters out of the. Now think about this. I'll just throw this out. So was Jim Harbaugh worth a touchdown to the Chargers from Brandon Staley? Okay. Gerard Mayo like Staley, a little bit over his skis. So let's say, just say this. Let's just say Vrabel is worth three and a half to four points from Gerard Mayo. That feels true. Free agency with all that money is probably worth a point to a point and a half. Now you got five and a half points better the draft with four starters worth half a point. So if they are six points better than. I mean, just. That's how I'm, that's how Vegas would look at it. So if Rabel's worth a little more than a field goal, you can go get a number one receiver. That's a point. You start looking around, look at how many games they lost last year. You'd be amazed how many close games they lost by like 5 and 6 and 3 and 2 and 1 point. So I just think, I'm not saying. I don't know. What do they win four games last year?

Unknown (34:07)

Not many.

Dan Woike (34:08)

My, my take is they will be. Remember I said Washington is going to surprise the league. They're going to be a wild card team. Vrabel's worth four to four and A half points. The free agent class is worth a point to a point and a half. The draft class worth half a point. And by the way, the jets losing Aaron Rodgers. That's two W's in New England. Stop.

Unknown (34:26)

Listen, I think the audience is going to start rooting against the Patriots because if you start hitting all these picks like seven months in advance, you know, then you're going to get a little bit of an inflated ego. You know, if the Patriots hit on.

Dan Woike (34:38)

The heels of laughing like JJ Redick, I have the self awareness to understand that.

Unknown (34:42)

John final story is Nick Sirianni and the Eagles. Man, this, this whole push push stuff. Colin, coaches and GMs are putting their thoughts on the record after the packers proposed to ban it. Well, Sirianni discussed all the narratives surrounding the play. This is fun.

Dan Woike (35:00)

It's a skill that our team has because of the players that we have. The coach, the way the coaches coach it. That again, there's just so much time put into it. The fact that it's, that it's a successful play for the Eagles and people want to take that away I think is a little, a little unfair, a little bit insulting in that sense of that because the guys work hard at it. We work hard at it. Yeah.

Unknown (35:28)

Some interesting numbers here.

Dan Woike (35:29)

All right.

Unknown (35:30)

They had Kelsey at center and when he left everybody was like oh, that's a huge loss. They still did a lot of tush. Push the numbers. The Eagles have run it 108 times since 2022. The second most team Buffalo Bills at 55. So a half basically of the amount of times Eagles have run it. Third most team is your Bears 16. Basically the Eagles are the only ones doing this. The Bills are trying. It failed miserably against the Chiefs. So why would everybody want to ban it? Why don't they at least try it?

Dan Woike (35:59)

Well, I think there's a couple of reasons. Jaylen hurt squats 600 pounds. He is a unique player for it and he's also short. So you get this like power lifter body behind the best offensive line in football. So some of it's just personnel realities. A lot of it's that Most quarterbacks, Justin Herbert 6 5, Josh Allen 66 or they don't squat 600 pounds. They're big targets like Josh Allen jumping over the line is a huge target. Nor do they have the offensive line. So Philadelphia has this uniquely built quarterback short and a power lifter body and then they have a great O line so it works for them. That's the argument to keep it is they have personnel advantages. The argument to get away with it, get away from it is it can be a bit dangerous when you have.

Unknown (36:47)

People no evidence of that. It could be dangerous, but there's no evidence of Eagles running 108 times. Injuries, not where are they. So this danger angle, I think you got to talk.

Dan Woike (36:58)

How about this angle? It's a repetitive play. That's bad tv.

Unknown (37:02)

I mean, I think every Eagles fan on the planet would argue against bat. It's automatic. They're running it at a 87% clip. I mean, it's working. It's automatic. Why would you want to ban it? I just don't get it.

Dan Woike (37:15)

Well, Pats were automatic. Kickoff touchbacks were automatic. The league has a history of getting off of things that are boring.

Unknown (37:22)

So are you surprised that because the Eagles have had so much success, other teams haven't been like, hey, we could have a backup quarterback like a Taysom Hill. Well, be our tush push guy. Like, why not?

Dan Woike (37:33)

Why didn't everybody copy the triangle offense with Phil Jackson? Because they didn't have Kobe or Michael. Didn't you ask yourself, everybody in the world, why does Phil Jack, why the Lakers are the only team running this brilliant offense? Because Michael Jordan was unstoppable in it. And the only other player in league history that was 90% Michael was Kobe Bryant. And so a lot of it's personnel.

Unknown (37:54)

You just put Jalen Hurts in the Michael.

Dan Woike (37:55)

Well, I think Jalen hurts is a 600 pound, powerlifting five eleven and a half guy that gets behind the best O line. It's a personnel advantage. That that's the Eagles best argument is we just got better players at this. And they do. They're uniquely built. If Jalen Hurts is six six, it doesn't work as well. He's a target. Like Jaden Daniels is not a player I would do this with because Jalen's more. He's got a thinner body frame.

Unknown (38:20)

Remember the Bills were doing it with Josh Allen.

Dan Woike (38:22)

I hate it.

Unknown (38:22)

Totally working at the Chiefs. I mean, Josh Allen' I hated it.

Dan Woike (38:26)

I thought it was terrible for Buffalo. I think, I think it makes him a target where he's holding the ball up. I think that's so uncreative. I mean, if they're the second best team in the league at doing it, that shows you the separation between the Eagles and the rest of the league.

Unknown (38:39)

They have kind of hacked the tush push and it works for them and it's unstoppable.

Dan Woike (38:43)

Well, for instance, in baseball, Joe Madden created the defensive ship and then a lot of teams started copying the defensive shift. And it hurt, by the way. It was effective and it hurt the aesthetics of the sport. And so baseball's like, this is not good for the sport. It wasn't illegal. Joe Badden just thought of it and thought, we're gonna put the second baseman in right field. But baseball looked at it after five or six years and said, we got all these great players like Bryce Harper lining out to right field. We want him on the bases. The only reason you get rid of the defensive shift, it's bad for television.

Unknown (39:16)

So maybe that's it. We wait five years of the tush push. Get, get five years of it. If it's that bad and ugly and boring, then maybe they outlaw it.

Dan Woike (39:24)

Listen, I got takes today that clearly you can't throw a 76 mile an hour slider at me and not think I'm going to hit it out.

Unknown (39:30)

Is that the gummy bears and stuff you're loading up on?

Dan Woike (39:32)

I already had. I already had a brand muffin with gummy bears in it. Today I am eating so much sugar.

Unknown (39:38)

Carb loading. You know, you look like you're carrying a couple more LDs over there, big guy.

Dan Woike (39:43)

Okay. Okay. J. Mac with a new well, that's the news.

Unknown (39:47)

And thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. Be sure to catch live live editions of the Herd Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

Unknown (39:58)

Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Cavino and Rich Little live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search KOVINO and Rich wherever you get your podcasts and of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

Dan Woike (40:55)

You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

Colin Cowherd (41:31)

With amex, there's always a new experience to explore. From curating the perfect vacation and chilling in the Centurion Lounge before you get there trying out that new trendy restaurant thanks to Priority Notify with global dining access by Resy and getting straight to the action at the big game With Card member entrances at select venues with AMEX Platinum you can experience it all. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply Access to the card member entrance not limited to the American Express Platinum card. Learn more@americanexpress.com withamx I'm Mary Kay McBrayer.

Mary Kay McBrayer (42:05)

Host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Woike (42:32)

Everyone's forgotten who runs this valley.

JJ Redick (42:34)

Time to remind them.

Unknown (42:36)

Yellowstone fans, step into the Yellowstone universe.

Unknown (42:40)

Dark family legacy is this ranch and.

JJ Redick (42:42)

I protect it of my life.

Unknown (42:45)

Hosted by Bobby Bones, the official Yellowstone Podcast takes you deeper into the franchise that's captivated millions worldwide. Action Explore untold behind the scenes stories, exclusive cast interviews and in depth discussions about the themes and legacy of Yellowstone.

Dan Woike (43:04)

You know the first students to settle this valley fighting was all they knew.

Unknown (43:09)

Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the ranch, welcome to the Yellowstone. Bobby Bones has everything you need to stay connected to the Yellowstone phenomenon.

JJ Redick (43:19)

I look forward to it.

Unknown (43:20)

Listen to the official Yellowstone Podcast now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Woike (43:32)

So before Jimmy Butler went to the warriors and we thought that was the fit and it's worked out they won again last night. Big there was a lot of rumors about KD to the warriors and I just, I just watched KD play In Chicago against the Suns, that team's got some fit issues and misses some. A true point guard, and that thing just doesn't work. But KD was on the Draymond Green podcast and, and talked about he was the guy that nixed the KD to the warriors deal because it was there for him.

Kevin Durant (44:07)

But as far as the Warriors, I just didn't think it was, you know, and then I didn't want to move. And then as a player like me, I just. I cost a lot. I cost. I mean, me going into your team is going to make just a. It's gonna be a whole new era of your team when I get to your team, you know what I'm saying? So. And that's a lot of work and change through the season. Like I'm still a value, you know what I'm saying? Especially in my contract and just my. In production. That me just getting up and moving in the middle of season, it's going to be a big blow to any team. I'm going to. It just don't make sense for either side right now to go. Go through that. You know what I'm saying? When we just play the season out and if that's the decision you want to make, you know, in the off season, then, you know, you figure it out.

Dan Woike (44:50)

Yeah, I mean, I, that, that makes sense. I, I will say. Don't you. Now you're. What are you looking at? What. What don't you like about. Because I think Phoenix is broken.

Unknown (44:57)

Maybe I misheard. Did he just say it would be very difficult if I just change teams mid season. That team would have to be blown up. We just saw Luka Doncic get traded mid season, Jimmy Butler mid season. Both those teams are thriving now. Colin, what the hell is he talking about? Well, too difficult for me.

Dan Woike (45:14)

Who? Who?

Unknown (45:15)

Kevin Durant. What are you even talking about, dude?

Dan Woike (45:17)

Well, I, I thought Jimmy Butler was the perfect fit. I thought he was a perfect fit. I think Luca fits. LeBron. I think they've done the KD thing. There's no going home again. I think they did it.

Unknown (45:29)

But couldn't he have gone anywhere else and easily fit in? Hell, Detroit Pistons are one of the hottest teams in the league. Couldn't he have gone to Detroit and helped them be a top five team in the east or something crazy top four? I don't know.

Dan Woike (45:40)

Well, we don't. We don't know that that many teams went after him. We know that Golden State was interested and I, and I. And I think his take was. I've done that. Which is. Which is. It's. You know, there's certain places in my life I've been. There's no reason to go back. I get the. I don't need to do that again there. I think Kevin Durant really wishes Phoenix would have worked, and it didn't, and it hasn't. And they're missing a point guard.

Unknown (46:02)

And is now some of that on.

Dan Woike (46:04)

Kevin Durant, though, I don't think he's been the problem. I don't think sometimes, like, the Bradley Beal thing did not work. That's. That just didn't work. I thought it would. It did not. I. I watched them play against the Bulls, and it's so obvious when you watch them in person, as you have Durant in the corner and Boozer on the wing, and when they try to initiate the offense, it doesn't work. And so they need a point guard, and Bradley Beal is more of a two guard. So it just. The Phoenix thing's not going to work.

Unknown (46:29)

Colin, last night, they lost a game, 151 to 148. Okay? They had five guys score 20 more points. I think they shot 57 from three and they lost. They got bigger problems than a point guard. I think some of this. Kevin Durant has to take some ownership of this. They got swept by Minnesota last year. He got swept at the end in Brooklyn by Boston. Remember that? Tatum and those guys laughing at him. Kevin Durant needs to get his act, and I'm a huge KD fan, but at some point, you've got to take ownership. Hey, man, I haven't been good enough.

Dan Woike (46:57)

I think it's always. I. I always feel this with Kevin Durant. Buyer beware. You know what you're getting. He doesn't want to be vocal. He's not going to be the leader. You know, it's sort of like, you know what you get when you get Aaron Rodgers. You're going to get a little bit of an older, prickly player who could be a little passive aggressive. You know that going in. So are you built for that? LeBron is a. I'm going to take. I'm going to be the new ecosystem of the franchise. I'm going to talk to the press. I'm going to push back. It's my ball. I'm going to initiate. That's not who Kevin is. Kevin's more Aaron Rodgers. Sometimes he can be a little prickly. He can be a tad moody. They're both remarkable talents. But I often, and this is nothing against Matt ishbia you know, the owner, he came in, he was going to be hyper aggressive. Totally appreciate it. I just met his brother this weekend. Justin. They're aggressive guys. I appreciate that. But I think not every player is built the same. When you brought a rod in as a baseball player, he was not Jeter. He was not a foundational piece. He. He's not the leader in the clubhouse. He is a superstar player that needs to be appreciated. And there are certain things with a rod that. That you have to be ready for, and it worked. But that. And that's not a criticism. We're all different personalities. And so I think you just. You have to be fair to KD when you bring KD in. I would prefer to bring Katie in if I have certain elements already in place.

Unknown (48:27)

Right.

Dan Woike (48:27)

And I think Golden State had those. But I think Katie deep down said, I did it. I've been there. I done it. I won titles. I was mvp. Why repeat it?

Unknown (48:35)

Colin, you know, as you grow up and mature and get older, like, you change. That's normal. Life is change. Has Kevin Durant changed at all?

Dan Woike (48:42)

I don't know.

Unknown (48:43)

Still the same guy. I just want to get buckets. I just want to hoop. Like, that's what. That's been his line for that.

Dan Woike (48:48)

But that's some players. That's what they want. I.

Unknown (48:51)

You know, I. Bro, he's 36 years old. It's almost over for KD. It's all, you got. No more chance for legacy or whatever crap you want to call it.

Dan Woike (48:59)

I. I find myself defending him. I think I don't know him, but I think he's a different personality. And if you inherit him or you trade for him, just know what you're getting. And he doesn't want to be, like, in Brooklyn. He's like, hey, man, I'm gonna give up on this dynasty because I don't care about trophies. I'm gonna go play with my friend. I didn't get it at all. It did not work. But that's who he is. People. People. What Maya Angelou say. People tell you who they are. Listen. Yeah, he's telling you who he is. Hour three, we're going to the NFL combine next. This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glazer Podcast. On a more serious note, I'm still thinking about that commercial with Tom Brady and Snoop Dogg hating on each other, because when you listen to the reasons for hating someone or something, you realize just how stupid they really are. There is too much hate in this country, and it's gotta Stop. So join us at iheart and Standing up to It. If you see hate, speak up, call it out and you can learn more by following.

Mary Kay McBrayer (49:58)

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers, but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, gory details of horrific acts. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Unknown (50:58)

Welcome to My Legacy.

Dan Woike (51:00)

I'm Martin Luther King III and together.

Unknown (51:02)

With my wife, Andrea Waters King, and.

Dan Woike (51:04)

Our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger.

Unknown (51:06)

We explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.

Colin Cowherd (51:10)

Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Billy Porter.

Dan Woike (51:20)

Listen to My legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

JJ Redick (51:25)

This is My Legacy.

Dan Woike (51:28)

I'm Mark Seale. And I'm Nathan King.

Unknown (51:30)

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.

Unknown (51:32)

The five families did not want us.

JJ Redick (51:34)

To shoot that picture.

Dan Woike (51:35)

This podcast is based on my co.

Unknown (51:37)

Host Mark Seals best selling book of the same title.

Dan Woike (51:39)

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others. Yes, that was a real horse's head. Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.