Doug Gottlieb (2:38)

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd, wherever you may be or however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd. Calling's back. Next Monday after a good old fashioned week off, Keith Law is going to join us, senior Major League Baseball, senior mlb, senior writer for the Athletic. We'll get his thoughts on what's wrong with the Dodgers. And how about this Misarowski? Pretty, pretty amazing stuff. And what about the, the guy leading the bigs in home runs plays in Seattle. Dead ballpark. A dead ball ballpark of all places. Plus, we got Major League Baseball's draft upcoming this weekend as well. A lot to get to with Keith Law. Want to start with this. So there's a, a new season of the Quarterback on Netflix and a guy who I do think that America sort of fell in love with watching this series going back two years ago was Kirk Cousins. Right. And we talked to start the show. You're just joining us, Doug. God, live in for Colin. We talked about how WNBA players, I think the best term would be felt disenfranchised by mainstream fans and media for so long. Now they're like taking it out on Caitlin Clark. I think Kirk Cousins is a guy that's had a lot of ammo, picked in the fourth round from a team that drafted a first round starting quarterback who was rookie of the year that year in RG3. And then when it became his franchise felt like they didn't like him there. Heck, the president of the team in an interview kept calling him Kurt Cousin when his name is Kirk Cousins. I'd like again, you're showing somebody disrespect if you don't even know their name. Right? Repeatedly. Yes, I know. I, I know I screwed up last hour, but my point is when it's. And again, it was like Bruce Allen was like eight times. I want to talk about Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins. Like name's Kirk and I work for you and I'm starting quarterback. So Kirk has spent time exacting his own personal revenge for people who didn't think he was good enough, got the fully guaranteed contract, got the extension in Minnesota, won a road playoff game in New Orleans, proved on some level that he's better than advertised in primetime games, and then departs at the end of last season. Now, full disclosure. End of last season, he torn his Achilles tendon he was on his way to a unbelievable year in the neighborhood of 6,000 yards passing that season. But Kirk Cousins struggled from about the midpoint this year and ultimately got pulled from Michael Penix, who was the top 10 pick of the Falcons. To many people's surprise, like, you're going to sign Kirk Cousins, then draft a first round pick quarterback. That seems weird. So in that season of the quarterback, with the new season, the quarterback, here's what Cousins had to say about if he could do it all over again. Wasn't expecting us to take a quarterback.

Keith Law (5:56)

So high at the time.

Doug Gottlieb (5:57)

It felt like I had been a little bit misled or certainly if I had the information around free agency, it certainly would have affected my decision. I had no reason to leave Minnesota with how much we loved it there if both teams are going to be drafting a quarterback high. But I've also learned in 12 years in this league that you're not entitled to anything. It's all about being able to earn your spot and prove yourself. Yeah, so he like backtracks. He's like, hey, you know, you're in your spot, you prove yourself or whatever. But had I known, look, this, this one's, this one seems pretty obvious, right? I get that he likes it, but, but the buyer's remorse that Cousins has, keep in mind that again, Cousins has won in the business of sports. He's the guy who's done no extra years. Just give me the years, give me the money, make it all guaranteed. He did. And that worked for him in Minnesota. But Minnesota was moving on. Make no mistake about it, they were moving on. They had allocated their resources towards their wide receiver and other pieces and they had made the decision, hey, we're going to go get a first round pick. And then they signed Sam Darnold as a placeholder or just in case. And remember he had worked in that offensive system when he was in San Francisco the two years previously. Like, this is one of those things that it sounds really good in documentaries. Like, man, if I knew they were taking a first round pick and Minnesota's taking a first round pick and I love Minnesota, I would have stayed in Minnesota. Like, what are you talking about, Kirk? They weren't going to pay you. What Minnesota, what, what Atlanta pays you? You know, they just weren't.

Ryan Music (7:50)

You know.

Doug Gottlieb (7:50)

It'S like, yeah, I, I, I totally would have stayed there. Would you? Again, that's cow, that's fertilizer. That's what that is. Right. Remember he essentially signed a two year deals, four years, 180. Okay? 90 million guaranteed at. At signing. Minnesota wasn't giving you that. Like, what are you even talking about? Yeah. Hey, had I known that they were going to do that? Like, I, I didn't. I didn't know they were going to do that. And again, does it look great for Atlanta to draft a new quarterback? Actually, now it really does because Kirk Cousins, who apparently got hit and, you know, decided to play while hurt because he knows that, you know, one of the, one of the biggest lies. There's lots of lies told in the NFL, but the old, you don't lose your job to injury. Like, what? True. Bledsoe lose his job to injury. Of course he did. Lots of guys have lost their job to injury. So Kirk Cousins apparently took a hit to his shoulder and didn't tell any. You know, now he's. I didn't tell anybody that I was, I was hurt. Like, yeah, dude, you were playing. You're playing well, and then all of a sudden your production fell off a Cliff. He played 14 games. Let's not act like Atlanta did you wrong. Oh, man, Atlanta. They did me wrong. They gave you 14 games and the last couple of which were bad. You threw 18 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. Like, I can't believe they drafted another quarterback. Why? Because you were coming off of an Achilles tendon tear and they gave you 90 guaranteed. So you're going to get paid this year. They'll probably trade you and somebody else's quarterback goes down and you'll get a chance because you'll get, you know, nobody's going to pick up that option and you'll get another contract next year. I just don't lie to us and go like, hey, if I knew that Atlanta was going to draft a quarterback, I would have stayed in Minnesota. No, you wouldn't, because they weren't going to give you $90 million. Stop lying. Also, NFL players stop lying about, we don't have guaranteed contracts. You do. They're just not all fully guaranteed. And the ones that are fully guaranteed aren't the amounts that you want to read in the paper. That's really it. I don't know. Just the, the manipulation or. And some of it is, again, this is how any athlete, Kirk Cousins, can think that way, because the, the whole world has done me wrong and I proved them wrong time and again is how he's made it. But again, let's not kid ourselves, okay, that he wasn't staying in Minnesota and he was coming off an Achilles tendon tear. And if you think that Minnesota, where he'd had sort of an up and down run there ended on the up. He was playing really well in that system. But if you think they were going to give him a four year, two year, two years of a guaranteed contract. And oh yeah, by the way, when a guy stays, he wants to get paid more, not less. There's no home crown discount in the NFL. I think Kirk Cousins is trying to rewrite history and and get a sympathetic year. And no one's really sympathetic. Not because we don't like him, just because dude, you're still getting paid. You're going to get another contract if you want to do so. Don't tell us that Minnesota was going to keep you when they didn't put that money towards quarterback at all last year. Right? Their GM comes from San Francisco. They want to operate under the San Francisco model as long as they can get as many players with as cheap a quarterback as possible. That's the San Francisco model. Okay, Coming up next is in the Hurt here on Fox Sports Radio. What is the matter with the Dodgers? What's wrong? Swept by the Astros on the brink of being swept by the Brewers? We'll discuss that upcoming next Be sure.

Colin Cowherd (12:11)

To catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, what's up everybody? It's me, three time pro bowler Lavar Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called up on Game. What is up on Game?

Doug Gottlieb (12:26)

You ask?

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Colin Cowherd (16:43)

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Doug Gottlieb (17:39)

Doug Gotley been for Colin this the Herd fox Sports Radio iHeartradio app welcome in Sunday is the Major League Baseball draft. I know that because dear friend of mine Matt Holiday's son Ethan is getting ready to be drafted, likely on Sunday. Now his brother Jackson two years ago was the number one overall pick, but that was a bit of a surprise. Ethan may be the number one overall pick this year. I bring it up because our next guest, Keith Law, longtime writer and baseball analyst for the Athletic joins us. He just put out his top hundred prospects list and you had Ethan number one. Keith. Does that mean that Ethan will go number one? Does the number one prospect go number one in the baseball draft?

Ryan Music (18:29)

No. Quite often he doesn't. He didn't last year number one prospect was Charlie Condon who won the Golden Spikes Awards. He went third. Travis Bazano went first. He was I think one of the runners up actually for the Golden Spike. So wasn't a crazy pick. But it is often about money and what a team believes, how much a team believes they can maybe save taking a slightly lesser player. That would allow them to then spend over the slot recommendations for later picks and get players they think are first round talents instead.

Doug Gottlieb (19:01)

Do you think Holiday goes number one?

Ryan Music (19:04)

I don't. My answer might have been different on Saturday, but Washington's decision to fire Mike Rizzo, who I actually think did a great job for them on multiple fronts. You know, I understood Rizzo's stressing preferences just particularly in the first round pretty well. And he had an amazing relationship with Scott, Boris Holliday, the whole Holiday family, they're all Boris clients. And Mike really liked to take the sort of premium most famous so to speak players on the board that you know, his belief is that they're famous for a reason. Ethan Holiday is famous for a reason. He's super talented. Now I have a feeling they'll do something a little bit more conservative, which is not to say it'll be the wrong pick. There's plenty of good candidates this year, sure, but I don't think they'll go high school. I think they'll go college.

Doug Gottlieb (19:47)

Now speaking of college, Paul Skeens continues ERA is ridiculous but his team stinks and the farm system isn't particularly good.

Ryan Music (19:54)

Right?

Doug Gottlieb (19:54)

Right. Other than that, Mr. Lincoln, how is the show? I know ownership came out like we're not trading Paul Skins. Is there a world in which they replenish their farm system by moving skins?

Ryan Music (20:06)

I don't think so. Nobody I've talked to totally my beat but nobody I've talked to is really even brought this up as a possibility. Like I think they would trade Mitch Keller and I think they should trade Mitch Keller because obviously with pitchers you just worry you're going to hold on too long and they're going to get hurt or lose their stock and not be so effective anymore. But I think they look at schemes is like he's profitable. We don't really talk about players that way specifically but when schemes is pitching right it's everyone's tuning in. People want to go to the ballpark is he said some days he's the only reason you might buy a ticket to go see the Pirates. Not trying to be mean, he's just that good.

Doug Gottlieb (20:42)

No, it's you're not saying anything that you Empire fans like. Yeah, you're right. Right.

Ryan Music (20:47)

Yeah. So I think, I think he stays. If I'm them though, I'm like anybody else here is available. Like I think Brian Hayes, who signed a very, very long extension. They're shopping him. They should. I like Brian Hayes. Maybe he'll be better somewhere else. But he's not helping the Pirates. And they need to replenish. Like you said, they need to boost particularly the hitting talent in the farm system.

Doug Gottlieb (21:10)

Mizorowski, after giving up a OH2 curveball to Shohei, was outstanding again last night. He had the maybe two bad at bats as a pitcher against the Mets, maybe three in one inning. Outside of that, he's been outstanding. It's. It's early. He's got great stuff. But as you pointed out, right. You're always worried about the young pitcher getting in too soon because injury or, you know, second time through, you know, know against teams, they get a book on him. What is the league saying about, about Misarowski and his ability to maintain this level of dominance?

Ryan Music (21:50)

So the pure stuff just, if we're just talking even just fastball and slider, elite always have been. Even when he was junior college prospect a couple of years ago and brewers took him think of second round stuff was elite never threw a lot of strikes. That has gradually gotten better. And you know, there's always been a concern he's going to get hurt because it's a violent delivery and he throws so hard, so consistently. Guys like that just don't have a great track record of staying healthy. I can't predict an injury. I, yeah, I look at him and I get that guy looks riskier than most. The thing I'm most curious to see is what you just said. As hitters get to see him again and again, are they going to start to lay off a lot of that stuff? He can get guys out in the zone, but I don't think he can locate in the zone consistently enough. And they're going to try, especially that slider. If they're going to lay off the slider out of the zone, maybe even try to cheat on the fastball a little bit. And that's kind of what the Mets did. The Mets, especially second time through the order, look like they made an adjustment. So as he gets around the league, do we start to see that happen? And you know what, if he keeps getting guys out the second time through, I will gladly sort of, you know, shake my hand and say, yep, okay, he's, he's good. He's a number one starter because it is at least those two pitches. You do not see many guys in baseball, rotation or bullpen who have two pitches that good.

Doug Gottlieb (23:08)

The Dodgers have lost five in a row and, like, look again. They were coming off of a run where they won, I don't know, 13 out of 16. But these are playoff teams, Astros and Brewers, and in four of those five games, they've only scored one run. I know their pitching is yet to be healthy, but what's happened to the Dodgers bats?

Ryan Music (23:29)

I wonder if a little bit. Even coming into the year, we just sort of all thought they, you know, they would bludgeon everybody. Right. The offense looked like it was going to be, if not the best, among the best. And they were still second in the National League in run scored per game, but just slightly behind the Cubs. So I don't think there's reason to panic. The offense is on the older side. Do they start to see some fatigue over the course of a long season? Is this an opportunity maybe for the front office to say, let's go get another. Maybe a bat with some versatility just to give some guys days off so that they're a little fresher into September and October? I'm just speculating. Could just be a bad couple of weeks for them against some pretty good competition, as you said, because even with the offensive struggles the last week or two, they are still among the best offenses in either league so far this year.

Doug Gottlieb (24:17)

No question. I look at that National League, right? You got The Mets have 53 wins, the Phillies 53 wins, the Cubs 54, the Brewers 52. You know, the Giants, they went on a walk off inside the park. That's nuts. Nuts. But it's still the Dodgers and everybody else, assuming Blake Snell is back in time, that, that, that they're healthy. If I were to say, Keith, put your life savings on one team in the National League being the biggest challenger to the Dodgers, what would your answer be?

Ryan Music (24:51)

Oh, that's a good one. I think I'd still say the Phillies because even though they're offense, my worst Phillies fan, so I see a lot of Phillies games when I'm not actually out. And their offense can be really frustrating, but they're going to make the playoffs. Their rotation may be the best in baseball. They could carve their way through October just on pitching. I think back to those six Cardinals who weren't that good of a team, but their pitchers got real good real fast in October, and they more or less just pitch their way to the world Series championship. And I think the Phillies, there's such a good rotation on paper, I think they could do that. I'd like it even more if they went out and acquired a little more bullpen help. But Dave Dombrowski always does stuff like that. Like I they'll be active, they'll be buyers. They'll identify something they can fix at the deadline. And the bullpen is generally the easiest thing to do. In July.

Doug Gottlieb (25:44)

The Detroit. I'm just trying to figure out. I mean, obviously Riley Green and Spencer Tokerson are amazing.

Ryan Music (25:50)

Yep.

Doug Gottlieb (25:51)

But I mean, the Tigers on paper look awesome. And it's just so hard to comprehend, you know, a team that, you know, what was it, 19? They lost 114 games to begin the slow build back. But you know, four years ago was 96 losses. Is this real? What we're seeing 59 and 34 great run differential. Is. Is this real?

Ryan Music (26:14)

Yeah, I think it is. I think they're helped by a weak division. Right. Nobody else in the division's over.500, so that boosts them a little bit. But they got. They had one guy in the whole lineup before about two weeks ago who was a below average hitter and that was Trey Sweeney and now he's out in the minors. They got Parker Meadows back. They're trying Javier Baez back at shortstop. They can roll out. Maybe it's not the best lineup, but it has no holes one through nine. And I think that's a big part of why they've been one of the better run scoring teams in the league. Also, it's not just Tariq School like it was last year was the, you know, school and pitching chaos was AJ Hinch's term for it. And it worked. But no one, you can't do that for a whole season. And school. School's just as good. Casey Mize looks like he's finally turning into the guy I thought he'd be eight years ago when he was the first overall pick. They've gotten great work out of Resolfsen. Jack Flaherty has at least taken up some innings. They should go get a starter.

Doug Gottlieb (27:09)

That's.

Ryan Music (27:10)

And I think they're going to do something. They're definitely buyers at this point. They've got a great farm system. I would like to see them go get one more playoff worthy starter for October. But I do think they're very real. I don't just think they're going to the playoffs. They'll probably end up with home fields for at least around.

Doug Gottlieb (27:26)

Yeah, well. And Will Vest has been awesome Right, right.

Ryan Music (27:29)

Yes, he has.

Doug Gottlieb (27:30)

Yeah, that helps. Yeah. I mean, but when you have somebody that can close the door and he's doing so incredibly well, it's. It's just crazy to see the Tigers. You're like, is that. Wait, the Tigers? Tigers.

Ryan Music (27:43)

Yeah, it's really fast. It's unusual, but it's also like, it should give a lot of other fans hope you can turn things around really quickly. And the Tigers, you know, bad for a lot of years, a lot of high draft picks. Several of those guys just kind of broke out all at once in like a year and a half span. They waited for a while and Torkelson, he broke out. My. They waited forever and through a Tommy John surgery, he broke out. Riley Green, I agree with you. He's a superstar. All those guys kind of hit around the same time. And that's how they went from, you know, 100 losses to they could win 100 games this year.

Doug Gottlieb (28:16)

The big dumper. I just, I can't say it. I can't say it enough and try not chuckle.

Ryan Music (28:21)

Gotta say it.

Doug Gottlieb (28:21)

The big dumper. Cal. Cal Raleigh. Okay. It's. It's one thing to have 36 home runs, have a 1.029 OPS, which is second best in the league. Something to do it as a catcher and then the third thing to do it in Seattle, where balls do not fly out of Seattle at all. Right. Dennis, Ballpark for home runs in the league. How sustainable is this, all those things considered that he's a catcher and that he's playing in Seattle?

Ryan Music (28:51)

I believe in the old scouting axiom that catchers often develop later because there's so much wear and tear on their bodies and because we ask them to do basically two full time jobs. Well, he's 28. That's kind of peak years anyway for a lot of hitters. So I'm not shocked he's taken a step forward. I am probably most, maybe not shocked, amazed. He's become a way more disciplined hitter. And he's hit 30 homers before. He's going to hit 55 this year. That's another level. But it's that his at bats are better, he's walking more, he's making more contact overall. That's the thing that I think is so amazing. When we've seen guys do that, more often than not, it is sustainable. So we might see a couple years of Cal Raleigh doing, you know, his best Johnny Bench impression before, look, it happened. I don't care if he's the big dumper or the medium dumper. Or the little dumper. Eventually it catches up to you. It's hard to be a catcher in the big league. Eventually it'll fade. But to me, I, I think enjoy it. By the way, I PBS News have me on and you're damn right I said big dumper on national television.

Doug Gottlieb (29:52)

Hey, it just came down that MLB is going to use the ABS Challenge system in the All Star Game. Granted, it's the All Star Game. Like they'll probably just do it to bring attention, but seems like a precursor for what's going to happen next year in the bigs, right?

Ryan Music (30:04)

Yes, absolutely. I love it. By the way, I've seen it in the Arizona Fall League. Been a couple AAA games this year to see like Andrew Painter and Cam Schlitler just pitching tonight for the Yankees. I was at his AAA start last week. I love the abs and fans get into it because they do. I don't know if you've seen it, but they do the. They put it on the Jumbotron and they show a computer graphic of the path of the ball and people cheer or boo or whatever. But it adds some excitement to what would otherwise be like. Nobody likes replay. That's basically what this is, another kind of replay. But instead they make it fun and also I think it makes things more accurate. So I'm a big fan.

Doug Gottlieb (30:37)

All right, Keith, great to catch up, man. Enjoy the draft. I know it's like your personal Christmas because it challenges the depth of your knowledge, which is outstanding. Check his work out in the Athletic. It's got the top 100 prospects. The MLB Draft is, what is it, 6:00 Eastern Time on Sunday. It lasts essentially in perpetuity, but it's still amazing stuff because that's how top all teams are made. Keith, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.

Ryan Music (31:01)

My pleasure.

Doug Gottlieb (31:02)

That's my. That's Keith Law from the Athletic. Let's get to Ryan. Music with the news.

Colin Cowherd (31:09)

Turn on the news.

Doug Gottlieb (31:10)

This is the Herd line news. Hello, Ryan, what do you got for you.

Keith Law (31:15)

Oh, Doug, always good to be listening to two seam heads talk about America's pastime. Summertime. Good stuff there between you and Keith Law, but we are going to turn our attention to the. The association, the NBA, the Knicks. They officially introduced Mike Brown as their new head coach. And here's what he had to say about the massive, perhaps unrealistic expectations that he's facing in New York.

Colin Cowherd (31:42)

Nobody has any bigger expectations, first of all, than I do. My expectations are high.

Doug Gottlieb (31:47)

This is the Knicks.

Colin Cowherd (31:48)

I talked about Madison Square Garden being iconic. I Love and embrace the expectations that come along with it.

Keith Law (31:57)

Do you? I'm sure.

Doug Gottlieb (32:00)

What are you supposed to say?

Keith Law (32:02)

No.

Doug Gottlieb (32:02)

What are you supposed to say?

Keith Law (32:03)

Absolutely. No, I. I get it. I'm not blaming.

Doug Gottlieb (32:05)

I mean, listen, like, like, listen. So. So here's the. Here's my Mike Brown thing. I know Mike. I think him to be an exceptional human being. Like, he's a legit good dude. Hey. And all of us, I would hope, have learned from our past successes, but also our past mistakes. Right. I think trying to run Princeton offense when you have Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard and those guys and Eddie Jordan running it when you were in la, that's a mistake. Led to his firing. Right. But we need to remember that he did help, like, the LeBron team that went to the Finals that had Booby Gibson as his starting, you know, guard up. Yeah. Mike Brown was the coach. Yeah. So you couldn't hire somebody to replace Thibodeau who hadn't done as much or more than Tibbs had done in the playoffs. Mike Brown checks that out. He comes from very good stock. Right. Got spurs and of course, Steve Kerr. He's been a head coach. He's been a successful head coach. Do I care that he's like, yeah, I run towards X, but like, that's great. Dude, it's New York. They're crazy. I owner is crazy. But again, it's opening press conference. Let's just take a beat and. And see how it plays out. Doesn't have a perfect roster, got to be improved. And then they got to figure out, really, it feels like, you know, is the owner going to let the basketball people do their job and then, oh, yeah, by the way, does Rick Brunson help them or hurt them, as it appears? Again, this is just based on what I've heard and what we've seen with some former players. Does he have too much say with the coaching staff as an assistant, but also the father of your best player?

Keith Law (33:50)

I have a couple of points on this which almost kind of conflict with each other, but I want to throw them at you. Okay? So with Mike Brown, it's hard to say that he is a definitive upgrade over Thibodeau. So that's where the questions come into play and you start to go, why are you getting rid of a guy like Thibodeau when you don't have that absolute known coaching candidate? And obviously, the way that they went about this whole process, essentially trying to poach all the top coaches that are currently already under contract with teams and got like, ime Udoka a huge raise and tried to go after Chris Finch and all this stuff. So you have a lot of questions about their approach. Now, what I will say is with the warriors, when they were coming up and they had Mark Jackson at their head coach, it had a lot of the same reaction, which was, how could you be getting rid of Mark Jackson? This team is finally having postseason success for the first time in a long time. And they ended up with Steve Kerr, who clearly did become an upgrade. Now, I know those aren't exactly comps because Steve Kerr coming out of broadcasting, whereas Mike Brown is a lifelong coach with a somewhat proven track record. But it just sort of feels like there is proof of concept that these teams have shown improvement, have gotten close, and it really is that one head coach move away from putting them over the top to get them to where they want to go.

Doug Gottlieb (35:21)

Yeah, I mean, I also think there's some personnel stuff they got to kind of figure out, right?

Keith Law (35:25)

No doubt.

Doug Gottlieb (35:25)

Yeah. Um, you know, I mean, Karl Anthony Towns, we talked a little bit earlier about the NBA. We're talking about the Lakers, how the Lakers three best players are their three worst defenders. Yeah, can't do it, right? You can have one. Well, the Knicks their two best players or two of the three best players, if you put OG and an OB in there. Like Brunson struggles to guard because of his size and you know, he carries so much load offensively. And then Karl Towns struggles to guard because just doesn't move that well. Like, it's not what he does. He's a stretch five who can really pass and shoot. So again, he's brought in to improve their defense. And you know, Tibbs is known as a defensive guy. I do think at some point in time you are what your personnel is and are you going to move that personnel. But anyway, what was the other. What were the other bullets you want to get to?

Keith Law (36:20)

Well, just that it. Embracing the expectations to your point is. It's sort of what you were saying is that I think the expectations are outweighed by their roster limitations. I don't think.

Doug Gottlieb (36:34)

Yes, yes, but, but here's the thing, okay.

Keith Law (36:37)

Like Eastern Conference finals pre feels about the cap for this team now maybe next year because of the Halliburton injury and the Tatum injury, they actually do have a window where they can get in there. But it does feel like this team has basically capped out based off of realistic expectations for what they have.

Doug Gottlieb (36:53)

No question. Again, I think Tibbs got fired for a couple reasons. One, he, he, he doesn't Play his bench. Now it does. And then when he did play his bench, they played well. But again, whether or not that actually means anything. Right. Because, you know, guys go by data, and long term, the data would have played out. But whatever. I think Tibbs, they struggle. He struggled to work in a group and to make the owner feel like he was at all even part of it. Right. I'm sure there were some players that they had that it didn't feel like they were part of Tibbs plans and that can. They can stab you in the back in terms of exit meetings and whatever. And then I think a lot of people thought, okay, the Celtics, Tatum gets hurt. And all we had to do is beat the Sixers. And we can't beat the second Sixers. I mean, the Sixers, excuse me, the Pacers to get to the Finals. And the time is now. The expectations are high, not just because they went to the Finals, but because the Celtics, the Pacers and the Bucks are at least a year away from competing because they've all lost one of their best players to an Achilles tear.

Keith Law (38:02)

Sure.

Doug Gottlieb (38:02)

And you know, who are the other teams, right. The Sixers, who are held together by scotch tape with Joel Embiid. Right. And then there's the Knicks. So I. There are gargantuan expectations. Some of it's because of this year's success, but a lot of it is because I think most people think next year the. What the east really is wide open for a team like the Magic, a team like the Knicks, a team like the Sixers.

Keith Law (38:27)

All right, we'll wrap up here with some NFL the Denver Broncos, one of the surprise teams last year, getting into the playoffs with a rookie quarterback despite having to pay out that large dead cap hit for moving on from the Russell Wilson contract. Well, their wide receiver, Marvin Mims, he says he's telling SiriusXM NFL radio things are feeling different in the Mile High City these days.

Ryan Music (38:54)

You can really feel that, like, the times are, like, changing for us, you know, and we're kind of like people always like to say, like a win now mode. And, you know, with the way things went last year, I mean, we were.

Keith Law (39:04)

Projected to be last in the league.

Ryan Music (39:06)

Last year, end up making their wild card. So the guys are here last year, they believe, and the guys are coming in. They want to make an impact, too. So I think everyone's hungry.

Keith Law (39:14)

You feeling things are different for the Broncos this time around? Well, can we be honest about success?

Doug Gottlieb (39:22)

Can we be honest with. About the AFC West? Right. Who they cross? Who you cross over against is a lot like, okay, I'm a Charger fan, you're a Charger fan, Right. But last year was supposed to be kind of a rebuild reload sort of year and they end up making the playoffs. Why? Well, because look who they crossed over against. You know, I mean your schedule does matter. Yeah. Denver was at a last place schedule, so they benefited playing it. You know, I think teams that were down in terms of their crossover. So this year I think it's gonna be different. I think it'll be harder for that division as a whole. Right. There's when one division has three playoff teams and two of them nobody thought would be playoff teams. Right?

Keith Law (40:11)

Totally.

Doug Gottlieb (40:11)

I think it tells you a little bit about who they crossed over against, schedule wise. And you look at Denver and I completely understand I'm not gonna be schedule guy because we don't know who they play against because you don't know who's gonna be healthy when they play against them. And sometimes, you know, preseason predictions for who's good doesn't really fit.

Keith Law (40:32)

I will go against that and I will play the role of schedule guy for you. There are just some teams on here, on its surface that look like they have some real soft spots. They have the Titans and the Colts.

Doug Gottlieb (40:47)

Early to start the season. That again should be, you'd think two and oh to start the year before they take on the Chargers. But then you got Chargers, Bengals, Eagles. Yeah, you get Jetson, Giants at home.

Keith Law (40:59)

You get both New York teams. Right. Then you go towards Cowboys back end of the schedule, maybe the Jags at the end of the year. Who knows where they'll be at? So they're outside of. We know the division games are going to be tough, not just because the division games, but we expect the division to be incredibly competitive this year. But some of their non division games, they were given some breaks and it looks like it could be right in the mix for another 9, 10 win season and we'll see if that's enough to get them back into the playoffs for a second straight year.

Doug Gottlieb (41:26)

Yeah, that's, that's fair. But again, look at, look at last year, okay, and, and be honest with yourself, right? That they beat Tampa, Tampa was a playoff team, but outside of that, they beat this is, this is all their wins. The jets, the Raiders, the Saints, the Panthers, the Falcons, the Raiders, the Browns, the Colts. And then last game of the year when nobody played for Kansas City, they beat the Chiefs. Right. So what you're saying is they beat one good team all year and then they beat the Chiefs at the end of the year when the Chiefs played their backups right again. So it doesn't mean that we diminish what they did, especially considering where they were and you have a rookie quarterback. But it does paint kind of proper context for what they're actually going up against. And that's right Music with the News.

Colin Cowherd (42:19)

Well, that's the news.

Doug Gottlieb (42:20)

And thanks for stopping by The Herd lie News Chad Holmgren just signed a new max extension. How big a risk is this for Oklahoma City? We'll discuss next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the herd.

Colin Cowherd (42:32)

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Katie Couric (43:46)

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Colin Cowherd (44:46)

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Doug Gottlieb (46:40)

Doug Gottlieb in for calling this the Herd fox sports radio iHeartradio app. So the big news today in the NBA so far is Chet Holmgren agrees to a max extension for the 2025 NBA Champion Oklahoma City Thunder. Remember, this is Chet, of course, who had a good, not great playoff run, right? He averaged 15 a game in the playoffs, nine rebounds, two blocks. Which obviously kind of plays to the real strength of what he does defensively. Offensively, he struggled shooting the Ball at times right, shot below 30 from three and, but kind of figured it out as he went and they end up, they end up winning in game seven after Tyrese Halberton goes down with a torn Achilles tendon. Now, for his career, Holmgren's been the league technically three years, but he's only played one full season. That was going back to last year. This year hurt his hip and only played 32 games. So you have a guy who's 7 1, 210 pounds, three years in the league, only played one full season, and he just got a max extension. Earlier in the show, we were joined by Anthony Slater from the Athletic. He said this about what Chet's contract means to Oklahoma City.

Ryan Music (48:12)

I mean, I think it's just check the box that you knew was coming, but you know, you're, you're getting the next six years of Chet Holmgren's early prime into his prime. Sure, he's not your, you know, prototype number two, certainly as a score, I think he's got higher upside there, but I mean, he's a rim protecting three.

Doug Gottlieb (48:30)

Point shooter at seven feet tall.

Ryan Music (48:32)

To me, like, you know, that is.

Keith Law (48:34)

A very valuable piece for a team.

Ryan Music (48:36)

That wants to win with defense first.

Doug Gottlieb (48:38)

And you saw it in the play.

Ryan Music (48:39)

You know, we can, we can kind of at times I certainly did, you know, their first playoff run together when they lost in the second round even though they're the 1 seed. I, I kind of wondered if Jaylen Williams and Chad Holm could be legitimate number two, number three on a title team. Well, that question kind of was answered a month ago.

Doug Gottlieb (48:57)

Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, they won, so it was answered. And I love the fact that Anthony knows what I've said on my show. Doug Gottlieb been for con have the Doug Gottlieb show that follows this one. It's like a lot of people talk about the offensive pieces and the spacing. Like, dude, Oklahoma City was built to be the best defensive team in the league. And then they have one great offensive player who kind of carries them a secondary, really, really good offensive player. And then they just kind of try and figure out the rest. And they, they run good offense. But personnel wise, some of it's because of youth and some of it's just because they're made up of a defensive first mentality. They're never going to be at times the most beautiful offensive basketball, but you don't have to be win with your defense. So look, do I think Chet checks those boxes as a defensive weapon. He not only Protects the rim, but he's not perfect at it. But he can switch and guard the perimeter as well. Yes. And my guess would be his three point shooting should at some point in time improve over time and regain his confidence. Yes, but the fear is the injuries, right? Fear is the injuries. And you can say, hey man, he's getting stronger, he's getting bigger. This is after being a league three years. He weighs 208 pounds. Like you can try and throw weight on dudes but it doesn't mean that it sticks. And you can say ah, he's not gonna get hurt, but he did the other part to it and this is really important is I legitimately think that the guys in Oklahoma City love playing Oklahoma City. You don't, you don't have to worry about some of the other stuff you worry about in other places. Right. The, the players are close. They are all about the same age. There is a great kind of unifying spirit and, and Oklahoma City knows they can't go out and get big name free agents because they won't stay. They got it. They're very understanding of who they are as a franchise and, and where they are in the grand landscape of things. Some guys is just not don't work there. But they won't ask for a hometown discount because really what they should go to, you'd think you go to Jalen Williams, you go to Chet Holmgren, go, look dude, you guys are going to be superstars. You're going to stay here forever. How about you save us some money because the production has been good and you think we'll get better. But when you only play a season and a half of three years, do you reward that with a max deal? You kind of have to if you're Oklahoma City. But should you have to, I guess we'll find out. These are the things his health is probably going to be the first determinant as to whether or not they can be a champion several times over. Okay, coming up next in the herd, guess who's on the WNBA 2K cover? No, not her. We'll discuss next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Herd.

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Katie Couric (54:21)

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