Hour 2 - Number 1 guys

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 2: Number 1 Guys Release Date: May 9, 2025

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Introduction In this episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," the hosts delve deep into the dynamics of top NBA players, their impact on their teams, and the broader implications for their franchises. The discussion primarily centers around the significance of star players, team chemistry, and the evolving landscape of the NBA playoffs.

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Steph Curry's Indispensable Role in the Warriors The conversation kicks off with a critical analysis of the Golden State Warriors' performance without their superstar, Steph Curry.

• Ryan Rosillo emphasizes Curry's irreplaceable role: “The Warriors without Steph are a firework show that only has sparklers. There's no big burst at the end.” (04:10) He compares the team’s synergy to a symphony, highlighting the lack of cohesion when Curry is absent.

• Colin Cowherd adds humor by likening the Warriors without Curry to an open mic night: “Without Steph Curry, it's open mic night. Anybody got a funny joke?” (04:20) This underscores the diminished quality of play without their star.

• Steve Kerr, quoted in the episode, acknowledges the challenge: “It's not as simple as, you know, Steph's out, so we just replace him with one person.” (04:45) He discusses the domino effect of Curry's absence on the team's strategy and performance.

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Draymond Green's Controversial Conduct The discussion shifts to Draymond Green, focusing on his behavior and its impact on the team.

• Ryan Rosillo critiques Green’s tendency towards the "victim mentality": “He does not work. So, I mean, it's just. I think we all love Steph Curry, but last night, they are just not visually fun to watch at all.” (06:56)

• Paul Pierce provides a balanced perspective: “I think he's super important because over the years I think they've been passive personalities and you always need one wild card and somebody willing to mix it up.” (07:28) However, he also points out Green's intentional fouls and the leniency shown by officials, which he believes benefits Green personally.

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Jayson Tatum and the Boston Celtics' Struggles A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to evaluating Jayson Tatum's performance and the Celtics' prospects.

• Ryan Rosillo expresses skepticism over Tatum’s role: “He is so collaborative that if Kobe or MJ were on this team, they'd be like, yeah, I get the three-point thing.” (10:03) He criticizes Tatum for his reliance on three-point shooting and lack of clutch performance in critical moments.

• Paul Pierce counters by recognizing Tatum's growth: “That’s the greatest growth. That's the part of his game that I've appreciated the most this year.” (12:20) Despite acknowledging his contributions, Pierce notes the criticism Tatum faces for not being among the top-tier players globally.

• The hosts debate whether Tatum fits the "face of the league" mold, with Ryan Rosillo arguing that Tatum lacks a distinctive brand or defining moves that resonate with fans, unlike legends such as Kobe Bryant or LeBron James.

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Playoff Predictions and Team Evaluations The hosts offer their insights and predictions for the upcoming playoff series.

• Colin Cowherd predicts a 3-1 lead for the Pacers over the Cavaliers: “I think we're going back to Cleveland and it's going to be 3:1 Pacers.” (31:55) He cites Indiana’s confidence and Cleveland’s injuries as key factors.

• Paul Pierce discusses the importance of officiating and player behavior in playoff outcomes, asserting that referees are not biased but affected by the flow of the game: “I don't think this is a ref thing.” (15:44)

• The discussion also touches on team strategies, defensive setups, and the evolving nature of playoff basketball compared to the regular season.

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Top NFL Quarterbacks and Comparisons Shifting gears to the NFL, the hosts discuss a Bleacher Report list of the most clutch quarterbacks since 2020.

• Colin Cowherd expresses surprise and skepticism at certain names on the list, questioning the criteria used: “Drew Locke is 13. Now here's the thing...” (32:44)

• Ryan Rosillo defends his preferences, advocating for a mix of statistical performance and on-field reliability: “Dak Prescott's if I said to you right now, give me the three quarterbacks...” (34:16)

• The debate highlights differences in evaluating players based on statistics versus intangible qualities like leadership and clutch performance.

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Miscellaneous Discussions and Personal Anecdotes Towards the end of the episode, the hosts engage in lighter banter and personal stories.

• Ryan Rosillo shares his new hobby in ceramics, inspired by his son's class, leading to a humorous exchange about pottery and creative pursuits.

• Colin Cowherd teases Rosillo about his suitability for ceramics, suggesting alternative activities better aligned with his personality.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ryan Rosillo (04:10): “The Warriors without Steph are a firework show that only has sparklers. There's no big burst at the end.”

• Steve Kerr (04:45): “It's not as simple as, you know, Steph's out, so we just replace him with one person.”

• Paul Pierce (07:28): “I think he's super important because over the years I think they've been passive personalities and you always need one wild card and somebody willing to mix it up.”

• Ryan Rosillo (10:03): “He is so collaborative that if Kobe or MJ were on this team, they'd be like, yeah, I get the three-point thing.”

• Paul Pierce (12:20): “That’s the greatest growth. That's the part of his game that I've appreciated the most this year.”

• Colin Cowherd (31:55): “I think we're going back to Cleveland and it's going to be 3:1 Pacers.”

• Ryan Rosillo (34:16): “Dak Prescott's if I said to you right now, give me the three quarterbacks...”

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Conclusion This episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" offers an in-depth exploration of key NBA players and teams, providing listeners with nuanced perspectives on player performance, team dynamics, and playoff strategies. The hosts balance statistical analysis with personal opinions, fostering an engaging and thought-provoking discussion for sports enthusiasts.

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Note: Advertisements, promotional segments, and non-content sections have been omitted to maintain focus on the core discussions.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[J. Mac]

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[Ryan Rosillo]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

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[Ryan Rosillo]

Done.

[Colin Cowherd]

See you, dad.

[Ryan Rosillo]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[J. Mac]

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[Ryan Rosillo]

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[J. Mac]

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[Ryan Rosillo]

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[J. Mac]

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[Ryan Rosillo]

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[J. Mac]

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[Ryan Rosillo]

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[J. Mac]

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[Ryan Rosillo]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon.

[J. Mac]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now let's get this party started.

[Steve Covino]

You're listening to Fox Sports radio.

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right, here we go. Hour two show is really starting right now. Ryan Rosillo in a few minutes. Paul Pierce, who's apparently walking across America is joining his third hour. It is great to be here today. It is absolutely amazing. Tomorrow's headlines lines today by J. Mac in what has been crazy underdogs, winning road teams, winning NBA claps. Fantastic. We were just talking about that as a staff today. What a gift. What a gift. March Madness was fantastic, but nothing like this. This has been three weeks. I mean, I don't remember a first round quite as nutty. The beginning of the second round is nuts. So I was watching so last night, you know, I watched for about seven minutes and I'm like, yeah, this isn't going to work without Stephen. And I was looking at the stats this morning about the warriors without Steph. Offensively, at 37 years old, he is still so valuable to this, this franchise. The warriors, even with Steve Kerr and Jimmy Butler and Buddy Heald and Draymond Green, the Warriors without Steph are a firework show that only has sparklers. There's no big burst at the end. Anybody notice that Jonathan Kaminga got off last night? Why? Caste didn't play right with Steph, you got to play off him. So Jonathan Kaminga without Steph is, Hey, I can get buckets with Steph. He's like, where am I supposed to be? And some of it is just so visual. They are not a fun team to watch. Without Steph Curry, he is just so much fun to watch. And again with Steph Curry, they are a symphony. Without Steph Curry, it's open mic night. Anybody got a funny joke? Bring up props. It's like 14 warriors played in I think the first half. Throw out your best line. Anybody got anything? Hey, lacrosse guy, bring the stick, whatever. So it's just, it's just two different teams and they're just not visually appealing at all without their 37 year old rock star. Here is Steve Kerr after.

[Steve Kerr]

It's not as simple as, you know, Steph's out, so we just replace him with one person. The domino effect of Steph being out led to trace plane tonight because we need the scoring, we need the finishing and you saw what he did out there. Same thing with jk. You know, we had found a formula over the last couple of months and obviously we're having a lot of success, but without Steph, the formula completely goes out the window and we've got to figure out the next formula.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I mean, they are again, it's A symphony with staff. And this was LeBron in his prime. This was the difference between LeBron and Kevin Durant. LeBron's on your team. He is the system. Kevin Durant's on your team. He's a bucket. You can put him anywhere. Doesn't have to bring the ball up, doesn't have to have the ball in his hands. Feed it to him in the corner, three seconds on the clock, he'll get you a bucket. That's not a knock on him. That's the difference. Steph Curry, you have to play off him. I used to say this about Tom Brady. Part of the reason the Patriots were so lousy at drafting wide receivers was Tom Brady's fault. Tom had no patience. If you were not able to figure out the playbook and develop trust, not interested. Go ask Julian Edelman. And once Tom got trust on you, he demanded it the next week. It's not like you got a badge or a ribbon from Tom. And then we're good. And it's the same with Steph Curry. You to be able. That's why Kaminga, when Steph doesn't play, Kaminga's like, I get bucket. When Steph plays, it's okay. Where am I supposed to be? And Kaminga starts feeling. He starts thinking too much. He does not work. So, I mean, it's just. I think we all love Steph Curry, but last night, they are just not visually fun to watch at all. Their movement, it just doesn't look good with that. My buddy, Ryan Rossillo, the ringer, the Ryan Rossillo podcast. So, as you well know, Draymond has been part of my little deal. Right? The volume. And I've told you before, coachable. Because of Izzo and Kerr barking at him for years. He takes and cowherd.

[J. Mac]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And coward. I'm very, you know, me rough. He's very coachable, great employee. But last night, you know, he did go a little bit into the victim thing. And I've said Bill Ambier, Dennis Rodman and Draymond chose this path. I don't want to hear you complain about it. It's the wrestling heel. You'll get famous and rich. So this morning, I'm like, listen, Draymond, bro, you're not going to get this is who you are. Where do you land on it?

[Paul Pierce]

I think you've been incredibly fair and supportive of Draymond throughout any of these controversies. Maybe suggested as a voice of reason, but I watched the game last night. You know, I watch all the warriors games. I like watching the Warriors. I like what he's brought to this team. I think he's super important because over the years I think they've been passive personalities and you always need one wild card and somebody willing to mix it up. But he can be at times delusional about this. I think he hit Nazrid on purpose last night. I think he hit Van Vliet on purpose in the other game. I even would suggest he tried to kick Tar Eason in the nuts and then kind of somehow didn't. And I thought last night was really bad because anybody else would have been thrown out. But his. The acceptance by the officials of his behavior is actually turned into a benefit for him. It's almost like your friend. It just constantly screws up and nobody even gets mad at him anymore. So he's held to a different standard. And I think it's a standard that's much more accepting and excusing of his behavior. I thought last night was really bad because your team absolutely needs you. After the 13 and oh start, they played him fairly even. Even though I would agree with you, it was a tough watch and it felt like he wanted to get thrown out of the basketball game. And it felt selfish. I think there's a moment there where he comes really selfish. So as much as I've appreciated him and know how important he is to the warriors, he at times can be very odd in how he looks at how he's handled. I mean, he was on TNT right after the Jordan pool thing promoting a movie and it all sort of worked. And then I remember, I think he did a Taylor Rook sit down where he concerned about the release of the video without ever sounding like he was accountable for the act itself. So this isn't exactly new, but there was a moment last night where they had to get him out of the game. After this, Tech was called on him where I thought, does he want to be thrown out in a moment without Steph, where his team desperately needs him to stay in the game because they're just out of players.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You're a Boston guy and you watch more NBA than anybody I know except probably people that are employed in the league. So I'm going to throw that. I have defended Tatum, but I want to. I want to say. Now, I know you're going to laugh at this, but I have, I've said this. So here's where I've defended him. The star of this franchise was Danny Ainge and the Brad Stevens. The roster construction is insane. It's like they have a cheat code in the league, like, they have, like, eight guys that can shoot past the ball. Tatum is a collaborative personality. Even when he didn't play in the Olympics, Ryan, it was like, well, that's part of the journey. I don't think Kobe would handle it like that. So this their whole thing is threes.

[Paul Pierce]

Not a closer then? Because it was different than what Kobe would do. All right, well, okay. All right. I just want to follow along here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Sorry. So. So he is so collaborative that if Kobe or MJ were on this team, they'd be like, yeah, I get the three point thing. I'm getting a bucket. That's not who he is. He'll beat guys off the dribble. Step back to shoot at three. I think the organization is a little bit in his head because he wants to be a team guy and he wants to. And there were moments in that game, I'm like, dude, they need a bucket. Stop the threes. And I think he almost is punished because he's so collaborative. And, hey, it's all threes here, even though they've been 11 for 11 on dunks. So my defense is this three point analytic absolutism, I think gets in his head. Am I crazy?

[Paul Pierce]

No, I don't think you're crazy. I think you're hitting on two things that I think are really important. For whatever reason, our basketball evaluation is shift into does a guy just take a million shots and, you know, stick his chest out? And if he does, and if they go in, even better. But if they don't go in, but we know that he wants to take them, like, that's cool. That's some MJ Kobe stuff right there. And Tatum has not closed in the playoffs necessarily like that, despite having some huge playoff moments. But, I mean, look, we've got LeBron getting criticized for years because he threw some nice passes at the end of the playoff game and made the right read.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right?

[Paul Pierce]

So I think whenever you're looking at Tatum, you have to understand that he really is their point guard. I mean, what he did last year in the finals, and I also hate this part of it, like when you don't win the NBA Finals MVP and you're supposed to be the best player. Like, Steph got dogged for years because of that, because it was somehow, like, against it that he was willing to defer. I mean, everything that happened that was good was basically because Tatum is setting up all this stuff. He was a point guard on offense and a center on defense against the Mavs last year, has an NBA championship five Eastern Conference finals by 25 years old. And the problem for Tatum is, is that he's just not one of the four best players in the world, right? He's had three top six MVP finishes, but he's never going to be Jokic, he's never going to be Luca. You know, he's, he's not sga, he's not Giannis. I think Brunson is a better closer. Steph is probably more important. Certainly you look at the rest of the roster, ants a hell of a lot more fun. You know, maybe we get to one or two more guys, but you know, the anti Tatum part of this is very strange. And maybe it's a Boston thing. And look, I'll admit they looked unwatchable in both of those games. 45 threes that then 48 hours later do basically the same exact thing. I like there are no neutral parties with the Boston Celtics and history plays part of that as well. But Tatum has never said anything like he can even be offensive. I mean, he's, he's so like mellow about everything. It's, it's, he's really easy. He's the antithesis of like this, look at me part of it. So it feels like he deals with a ton of hate. Maybe that's just the cycle of like, hey, I get to just smash the guy who I don't like in the NBA because most of these guys are going to come up short in the playoffs. But I think the playmaking part of him, Colin, that you're talking about, like, that's the greatest growth. That's the part of his game that I've appreciated the most this year. And yet we want him to just, I guess, close a lot stronger. The problem is, look, everybody else is missing threes too. So I haven't liked his shot selection. I think he makes it really hard on himself at times. I think he's getting switches that they fight to get because they're very, they're very hunt happy team with the way they approach their offense. But look, there's, there's a lot of players that would wish they had his resume as being the best player on a team that's really competed late in the season.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So I'm going to throw this theory out is that we've had a lot of upsets and a lot of underdogs winning. And this is one of the things I have said. I, I like analytics, which is analytics, but there we go, right? I mean, it's acknowledged as a pretty good line, right? I mean, come on okay, so my. It is. So I said, now, this was a little bit of a cheap shot. I said, jalen Brunson is work boots. Jason Tatum's a little bit of leather loafers. If it rains, probably deciding another pair of shoes. But the league has decided we're going to swallow the whistle. It's better for the ratings, it's better for the antagonism. It's a better watch, and I think it is. Well, analytics don't quite work as well when the league is like, you know, we're going to officiate the playoffs completely different. And I think it plays into the Knicks. So when you watch basketball, it's like football. If an officiating crew said we're going to allow a lot more holding, it would benefit the inferior offensive line that has to hold. Is that the officiating in these playoffs?

[J. Mac]

It.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know if Boston can win four games here. The officiating, doesn't it play into New York style?

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, anytime you can be a little. A little rougher with it. I mean, oh, geez, a beast. I fall in love with that guy throughout the playoffs, you know, but like McHale and Hart, when they get Tatum or Brown, like the other two guys, Tatum and Brown are so happy they don't have OG on them. They just go at those two guys, and I'd say they'd win. The physical part of that, you know, the funny thing about Brunson is, you know, you go through evaluating players and, like, I wouldn't want a small guard like this being my number one option. I mean, that's kind of other than Isaiah. It's. It's what history has told us. And yet I think small guys. His footwork is so good. He's so good at getting free. He's a better closer than anybody in this series, but he also gets rewarded. Although this has not been a free throw thing for Brunson whatsoever, Celtics has done a great job containing him in game two. So that's nothing really to do with it, but I think smaller players can actually get away with just murdering dudes defensively because the refs are just like, hey, that's your problem. He's a lot smaller.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But I don't.

[Paul Pierce]

I don't think this is a ref thing. I do not think this is a ref thing. I think Minnesota lost Game 1 because it was a weird game and they're going to run through that. I think Oklahoma City did something they would never do, and they did it in the night where Yoko Chattah 40 and 20. Cleveland isn't healthy right now. So there's a lot of stuff when it's a 60 start for the road teams in the second round of the playoffs, where I think we're forcing us to try to find a way of why this could be different. And maybe it is different. But this next Celtics thing, I don't really think has anything to do with the officiating whatsoever because the Celtics in the regular season were 4 and oh against this team and they made more threes and now they're 25% through games one and two in an area where they're supposed to be able to play five out and have five guys. You're worried about defending at the three point line. That is the entire design of the Celtics roster and it has not done any of those things. So I don't think, especially when you're taking that many threes, it's necessarily a whistle thing.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, here's here. We'll close it with that. This is an NFL thing and we haven't prepped on this. But I was saying earlier to defend Belichick, I said this. The NFL told Bill, you're old, combative and you're grumpy. And Atlanta was the only team that gave him the time of day. And so Bill said, I got the message. So look at what Bill's done. Young girlfriend, college campus, went on ESPN and told funny stories. Bill seemed collaborative. What a good teammate. He's a good guy after all. I don't blame Jordan Hudson for her ambition at all. It's a moment in time for her. But I have never felt like Belichick's a college guy. He was a terrible drafter. He didn't watch college football on Saturday. Was. So my take is this thing was never going to work. He's going to be out of here in a year. And all this turbulence was totally predictable. What do you make of it?

[Paul Pierce]

Okay, but the defense of Bill in that is. Is what he's making himself.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yes, he's rebranding himself. It's inauthentic, but people do it all the time. He wants to appear more current. But I mean, I joked earlier that it's surprising he didn't go to Coachella. He's trying to be young, collaborative guy now instead of old combative guy. I mean, all his moves are young people moves. I mean, you're a head coach.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, well, I don't know. Boston guys are pretty open minded. Right. And forgiving, not judgmental, not Envious. Look, I don't really know what the hell's going on here. I. I also probably would caution just because, you know, who knows, if I'm 70, you know, just banging out podcasts, be like, oh, that's person finds me attractive. That seems weird. I'm not gonna be. I'm not gonna be super critical of it. I think the part that's just weird is that, you know, Bill liked a tight ship in Foxborough.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yes.

[Paul Pierce]

And he's done it. He's done it arguably better than anybody has ever done it. Okay. And I've. I've given him. Look, I don't know how many times we have to sit here and keep giving Belichick credit for this incredible run and doing something in the league where it's just not supposed to happen. Right. So I think we're all on the same page with all of that stuff. But he. You know, it's funny. I was talking to one of his former players yesterday, and we were talking about, like, the living part of it. It was like when you were younger and you were on your first contract, but he was pretty much understood you were living in the greater Foxborough area. And, you know, when I used to live in Boston back then, early 2000, I know it's a lot nicer now with the crafts investment in the area, but that's not a place anybody who's, like, fresh off a college NFL rookie contract, it's like Attleboro. Awesome. He didn't want players living up in Boston. He didn't want distractions. He wanted you to be all about football the entire time. And to see him kind of pivot into something that can lead to distractions, criticism, outside noise that he's done a very good job of paying attention to. And both ignoring publicly, it just kind of runs counter to how he thinks an organization should be run. Like, hey, we are all on the same page, same thing, none of the nonsense. And it feels a bit like he's invited in some of the nonsense because, I don't know, maybe he's a lonely guy. And, you know, they. There's something about those two that we just don't understand from the outside.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. It strikes me as a bit of the late Bobby Knight, who preached discipline and then had no personal discipline. And you're like, bobby, the messaging is getting cluttered here where he was always like, you know, he'd scream at players if they hands in the wrong spot. And it's like, Bobby, you're throwing chairs at people, like, slow down. And I Do think Edelman said this. He's just like, the whole message was no distractions. I would say Carolina at this point, if it was a movie title, it would be the distraction. The whole thing is a.

[Paul Pierce]

Is a. Yeah, you know, it'd be great, too. Is just as much as we all love college ball, too. Like, let's get the season started, you know, and maybe none of this will matter. But I'm a little surprised that somebody that's been this media savvy, despite his willingness to share, because you're right. Like this past year at espn, I thought the same thing. I'm watching him. He's jovial. He's having. Ducking it up with the boys. You know, it's like this feels a bit like, hey, I need the public to see this personality, this side of me that I've hid. I think for strategic reasons. And even if I would say sometimes I think it was just pettiness. But once football starts, maybe this won't matter. And here's what we know. Here's what we know. They get off to a good start. Chapel Hill. No one's going to care.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Paul Pierce]

And if they're 2 and 5, everybody's going to blame this relationship because that's what we predictably do every time we have a chance to point at the thing that's different as being the reason.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ryan Rosillo. It's the ringer. He has a podcast. He's been covering the league forever at Ryan A. Rosillo. I don't even know what your middle name is. Is it Adam? What is a.

[Paul Pierce]

No, we haven't decided yet, so we just.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, all right. I didn't usually. I know my friends middle names. I'm very personal that way. I care.

[Rich Davis]

Do you?

[Paul Pierce]

No. You might remember, like, strangers birthdays, but friends middle names.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, not really. All right, buddy. Good seeing you, as always.

[Paul Pierce]

Thanks, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You bet. The great podcast. Yeah, that. That was always my knock on Bobby Knight. I used to talk about that. He. He absolutely demanded discipline and had no personal discipline. Was screaming and cussing and throwing stuff and yelling at ref. It's like, okay, messaging's a little cloudy here. And I still contend Belichick's going back to the NFL if offered a job. I thought Philadelphia was the spot, but Sirianni hoists a trophy, so that's done. My other one is Buffalo is if. If Sean McDermott gets bounced again early, at some point, you got to ask yourself, what are we doing here? Rinse and repeat. How about another one? Miami. He's Got a place in Jupiter, Florida.

[Colin Cowherd]

Not a good job. Owners not very good.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Beating the Patriots twice a year.

[Colin Cowherd]

No quarterback. Come on. It's a sinking ship in Miami. Jalen Ramsey and I reckon wants out, like, nah, nah, he's not going there. Buffalo is interesting, but does, does the girlfriend want to live in the cold.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Or does she, like, maybe that could, I don't see that as a maybe. That could be a temporary, really, relationship.

[Colin Cowherd]

You don't think wives or girlfriends have a say in where the, the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, I'm not gonna get into that space, but I, I, I, I don't think girlfriend equals wife.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, if you say so.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's. I've been married so long, I don't know.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, I got the NBA line tonight. There has been some movement.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, okay, okay. Let me guess. Don't tell me what?

[Colin Cowherd]

Cabs, Pacers, Cavs.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Pacers? You already told me. I forgot. It's Cavs by three and a half.

[Colin Cowherd]

Cabs minus five. There are three guys expected back.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, I, I still think I like the Pacers.

[Colin Cowherd]

And Oklahoma City's moving up, up against Denver.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What's that line at?

[Colin Cowherd]

5 and a half.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I would take, I'd take both home dogs in the points. I don't know if they win, but I would take the points.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I just, I. You know what? You don't have to bet every game. Keep the powder dry for maybe some Caitlin Clark action starts next weekend. I don't know. These NBA games just too crazy, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

In LA, it's the herd.

[Steve Covino]

One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the iHeartRadio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

[J. Mac]

Summer is almost here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered. Don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

[Instagram Voice]

Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Alright sweetie pie, buckle up. Good job.

[Instagram Voice]

Or ring the bell on their bike.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay kid, give it a try.

[J. Mac]

Nice.

[Instagram Voice]

Or remember their elbow pads.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Knees too.

[J. Mac]

Okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yep, there you go.

[Instagram Voice]

New Instagram Teen Accounts Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.

[J. Mac]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply see capital1.com bank capital1 NA.

[Rich Davis]

Member FDIC interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit card you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other crypto straight.

[Ryan Rosillo]

To your account with no annual fee.

[Rich Davis]

The Gemini Credit Card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.comcard to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by web bank. In order to Qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts. This content is not investment advice and trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card terms, see rates and fees.

[Ryan Rosillo]

JMac I've been telling you about this.

[Rich Davis]

Yep.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Two things. I've been taking these magnesium pills before bed sleeping like a bear. They work big gigantic magnesium pills. I don't care what the Internet sleuth say. That stuff works.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Second thing, you know I. I don't have a hobby and I decided yesterday what it's going to be. Ceramics.

[Colin Cowherd]

How did you Come upon ceramics.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's what my wife asked. I don't know.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, pottery?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I just. I, I. My son had a class in college and did it, and it was. He loved it. He's like, you know, working with your hands and figuring stuff out, and he sent stuff, and I'm like, oh, I like that a lot. So I'm gonna be taking a class on.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I'll give my wife a shout out. She's been doing pottery, and what does she. And she, like, won a contest. Now I'm trying to get her to sell some. You know, we get some extra income. She's like, no. So we now have it around the house. Some pottery. It's kind of cool.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And she enjoys it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's like, you know that movie Ghost with Patrick Swayze, Debbie. There was the pottery scene in there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Where they're doing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's like, you know, pottery. I don't get involved.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not into selling it. I just. I need something. I need, I need. I'm not a car fix guy. The staff can't. Is beside themselves now.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Why don't you. I need something to get my hands dirty.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, how about this? Let's play some basketball.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Dude, way past tennis again. I do enough sports.

[Colin Cowherd]

Pickleball.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm. I'm over it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll come up with some stuff, because I don't know that you're really built for ceramics. A lot of patience needed there. You don't have much.

[Ryan Rosillo]

My friend J. Mac with the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, no. Heard on the news.

[Steve Covino]

This is the Herd line news.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let's get started with Ryan Rosello's favorite player, Jason Tatum. Man, he's under fire for playing poorly in the first two games, specifically the fourth quarter in overtime. Tatum, eight points on 2 of 14 during that stretch. Talking to the media yesterday, Tatum vowed for improvement heading into game three.

[Jason Tatum]

I give them credit. They've been playing well, you know, but on the flip side is just taking ownership and knowing that you just, you know, you got to play better. And, you know, I will. You know, guys work really hard on their game and their craft and prepared to. To be in those moments to hit open shots. And, you know, it just hasn't happened the last two games, but, you know, you can't lose your confidence.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You ready? Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll take happy hour. This stuff is massively overblown. Jason Tatum is a star. The Celtics are gonna be fine in this series, and I'm a Knicks fan. Maybe I'm a pessimistic. Knicks guy. But I'm just telling you, this is Jason Tatum guy. You keep mentioning the Olympics where he couldn't get off the bench. You know who was playing ahead of him, right? LeBron and Kevin Durant. Two of the top 50, 40 year old LeBron in the history of basketball.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Couldn't beat him out.

[Colin Cowherd]

LeBron James. No, he's still playing elite level. And I looked up player efficiency ratings. You love stats, Mr. Manalytics. The only small forward the last three years better than him in efficiency are LeBron Kawhi when he's healthy and Jimmy Butler. Three guys who are amazing historically old guys.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And he can't beat them out in Paris.

[Colin Cowherd]

Veterans. How many times have we talked about it? Veterans are always going to be better than young guys. Jimmy Butler took in the heat to the finals twice.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Not in the Olympics.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, I had some beef with you. Butler is a two. Yeah, he took the heat to the finals twice. He's a one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He did take the heat to the finals twice.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, listen, I, I think this team.

[Ryan Rosillo]

In the west, he is not a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

You want you. I'm reluctant.

[Ryan Rosillo]

In the west, he is not a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I was on a text chain with two of the producers yesterday. I know they're cringing because I listen all this. I see Nick taking shots at Tatum. He's closer to Paul George, you know, listen, Tatum, given his accolades, what he's won at the age of 27, he's getting closer to Kobe than he is Paul George. The guy's already got a title. He's going to be four straight first team, all NBA. I'm sorry, I got to keep up for Tatum, man. He's getting way too much heat for two bad games. Come.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, I know we'll all be watching Saturday night. Hopefully you'll join me at the old 900 Saturday afternoon.

[Colin Cowherd]

Gonna be a boozy afternoon for you. Liquid lunch, watching the mix choke it up. Let's go to the next story. Yeah, NBA. We're going to the Cavs Indiana series. All right, listen, man, I'm stunned here. I did not think the Pacers would be up to nothing. Headed home. Obviously Cavs need some help. They're optimistic about Darius Garland's toe, Evan Mobley's ankle and DeAndre Hunter's shoulder. Yeah, they need reinforcements badly. Ty Jerome, who I believe is like 1 for 19 on threes in this. Remember Ty Jerome during the season?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Playoff basketball, it's a different animal. Ty Jerome can't handle it. I, I kind of sort of think this series is over. I think.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I think this series. I. I don't care that Cleveland's getting all these guys back. I think Indiana right now is playing with a ton of confidence. They're playing at their pace. They're playing cleaner now, obviously, Mobley. I mean, Cleveland's got a better roster.

[Colin Cowherd]

Mobley, defensive player of the year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. No, no, I mean, it's. But I'm just saying good luck in Indiana winning both those games. I think we're going back to Cleveland and it's going to be 3:1 Pacers. I don't think you go. I don't think you're winning two games in Indiana. Better.

[Colin Cowherd]

Better chance to come back from 02. Cavs or Celtics? Both have home.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Celtics.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Agreed. Final story. Colin. Oh, you're gonna love this. Yesterday you hated Bleacher Reports. Top quarterback list. Everybody did but Warren Sharp. He's been on the show. Good dude. He listed the most clutch quarterbacks dating back to 2020 based on estimated points added per drop back. So it's very stat heavy. The most clutch quarterbacks in the league going back to 2020. Joe Burrow, number one, followed by Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. Tom Brady makes that list despite not playing as many years.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Drew Locke, Patrick.

[Colin Cowherd]

What? Drew Locke is 13. Now here's the thing. There is you have to qualify by having 50 attempts. So for instance, Brock Purdy's not on this list because he did not. He doesn't have as many attempts.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He doesn't have that many attempts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Purdy did not qualify due to the. The numbers that Warren Sharp's using here. Your boy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, there's a lot of guys here. I. I don't.

[J. Mac]

Sorry.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'll take the top five. Everything else just doesn't work for me. I know what I see.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're more of an eye test.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Matt Stafford, Geno Smith. Who you taking? Buck 40 left one. Time out, 68 yards to go.

[Colin Cowherd]

I will take Matthew.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, there you go. Nothing against Gino. But who you, Matt Stafford or Dak Prescott? Who you take knitting, you know. Come on.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Kyler Murray checked in at number 24. Not clutch. Trevor Lawrence 30. Jalen Hurts 37 now to defend Hertz. They win a lot of blowouts, so there aren't many close games for him. A guy who will be on the list next year who just missed because he doesn't have enough qualifications. Jaden Daniels. Boy, he was amazing in clutch time last year with the Worth Washington. They won almost all it was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, he doesn't have enough.

[Colin Cowherd]

He doesn't have enough attempts because he was a rookie.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Dak Prescott's if I said to you right now, give me the three quarterbacks in the NFL. Buck 41 timeout on the road, need a touchdown. Give me the three quarterbacks you'd take because they're right in my. They pop right into my head. No order.

[Colin Cowherd]

Burrow, Allen, Mahomes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I would have Stafford at 3A because you get the coach, you get the CO coach counts.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean Lamar should be in there because he's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well and I love Lamar, but his that I would say I would do the same. I would do Mahomes, Burrow and Allen. Josh can beat you so many ways.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But I would have Stafford real close to it because you get the coach, you get Andy Reid and Mahomes, you get McKay and him. Now, I think, I think, I think Stafford latent games is magical. And a lot of it's just he's been doing it so long, you can't fool him. He's seen every coverage and every blitz.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, yeah. No, I, I can't find much to disagree with there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm with you, J. Mac with the news.

[Steve Covino]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd line.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Pierce joining us in studio today. Man, there's. I gotta tell you the. We've had a good, We've got a good week of shows. We've had a good week of show. The Tatum stuff is fascinating because Boston Guy gets all upset when I'm like, tatum's not the face of the league. But now Boston Guy acknowledges. Yeah, it's hard to be face of the league when you're not a team that can beat the Knicks at home twice. And then face of the league can't even get on the floor in Paris. And then, and then, and so I mean, it's. I'll say this, I'm not going to plant the flag on this, but this was always my criticism. He doesn't have face of the league aura. We kind of like our face to be a dog. We like him to be a. We like him to have a Kobe be like, ah, step on your throat guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

So was Curry ever a face of the league?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, in most of his career was in LeBron's prime. So LeBron was.

[Colin Cowherd]

Couldn't you have Curry and LeBron the same way you had Magic and Bird?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, because Magic and Bird were connected in college and they were both. It was Coastal and Lakers, Celtics. I just think we like certain things from our face of the league and part of it is Stomp on you when you're down. And I think there is a passive collaborative level to Tatum's game that doesn't feel quite what we like. It would be like being a quarterback and you were a great quarterback, but you were never, you were really mediocre late. Like Elway was defined by comebacks, Marino wasn't. Elway was defined by comeback. Brady was largely defined by, I mean a minute 10 left and you might as well just the Colts, it's over.

[Colin Cowherd]

I thought Elway was more. He loses all the Super Bowls. That was his definition until the very end when he won the back to back.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But he was, he was the greatest prospect ever. And I mean he had like at some point 45 come from behind wins. And when it wasn't a passing league, there weren't many quarterbacks that were known for that. And that's. Elway was always to me more than Marino. His brand was. He was great late. And by the way, Manning's brand wasn't. He was great late. It was Brady's. Manning was like great talent, but we never thought, in fact, we thought he was a bit of a teeth clencher.

[Colin Cowherd]

He could never beat Brady early in his career. Come on.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So to me there is quarterbacks all of a kind of a brand, something you think of. And I've always said this with Tatum. If you close your eyes, what do you see? I don't see anything. Most great players, I have an image, a go to move a dunk, an aura. I don't have anything. So it doesn't mean you're. Elway had 36 game winning drives before winning Super Bowls. Oh, by the way, there's a list I came out with earlier. Apparently it was. It bothered J. Mac. We do talk about that next.

[Steve Covino]

Okay, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Ty Jerome]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss and the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together. I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

[J. Mac]

Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake. That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

[Instagram Voice]

Introducing Instagram Teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Alright, buckle up. Good job.

[Instagram Voice]

New Instagram Teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.

[J. Mac]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh, really? Thanks. Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.

[Rich Davis]

Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini credit card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do. Groceries, gas, or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit Card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a 200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web bank in order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk for more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees.

[Colin Cowherd]

Tomorrow it's baseball night in America as Kyle Tucker leads the Cubs against Juan Soto and the Mets or the Giants take on Byron Buxton and the Twins. Check local listings for the game in your area tomorrow at 7 Eastern on Fox.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So I was saying this earlier. There are we always talk about what's a one in the NBA. So you kind of slot players. I said a couple years ago that if Derrick White is your four or five, you're a championship team. If you're if Derrick White's a one, you're not a playoff team. If he's a two, you're a playing game team. If he's a three, you're a playoff team and can win a series. If he's a four, you're a conference final or a finals team. If he's a five, you're the best team in the league. And and so I Jayson Tatum is a one. But there is three or four. There are three or four components of being a one, which is are you available? If you're a great quarterback and miss six games a year, I'm not building around you. Are you emotionally available? James Harden's a flake. James Harden has a retired jersey at a strip club. I like him as a player, but he can't. Houston tried to build around him. That's well documented, by the way. That's not me taking a shot. That's like well documented. He's prideful of that. It's funny. It's part of his like, like, you know, brand and image. So he's just not Houston Thought for years, well, he's Kobe. No, he's not Kobe. Kobe in his prime was a great defensive player. Kobe was different. Kobe was absolutely committed. Harden's like, I'm not in the mood. And Kobe gave you postseason heroics far more than a bad night. So here, if I had to select a starting five and then one bench guy for the best number twos in the league, it would be Jaylen Brown, Butler, Durant, Kawhi, Chet Holmgren, and Anthony Davis Durant. Now you have a problem with it. Kawhi is a number one talent, but you can't play 40 games. And I can't. To be a number one, I have to be able to build around you. You are the foundation of the house. Not a really cool kitchen. You're the foundation. Which one bothers you?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, the Jimmy Butler one. He took two Miami Heat teams to the final finals as the number one. That is incredible. Anthony Davis could not get out of the second round with the Pelicans. Okay. Couldn't get out of the second round.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He the weaker Eastern Conference before the Celtics had matured in a wobbly east out west. He is not a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. I don't think Chet Holmgren yet is a two. Could he be one in three years? Maybe. But if he's your two, this list.

[Ryan Rosillo]

By the way, is current. So what Butler did three years ago doesn't matter.

[Colin Cowherd]

So that helps your case with Kawhi. I agree with. With kd.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I've said this about Anthony Davis. He's one of the great twos ever. Offensively, he's inconsistent, but defensively, he's dominant.

[Colin Cowherd]

So my issue would be, I think there's only, like, you know how they have, like, the magnificent seven stocks, Apple, Google, all this.

[J. Mac]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think there's a magnificent Seven ones. There's only seven number ones like Paulo Ben Caro, as of now, like, no, he's a one. Can he win a playoff series?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, no. We're different. I can build a franchise around Paulo.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, but are you getting anywhere?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Halliburton is a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

I would agree with that. Halliburton is now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Don't give me this. Can you get him anywhere? We don't know that. What we know is he checks the Bancaro dog. Productive, reliable, and physically, emotionally every night. You get it?

[Colin Cowherd]

I like him a lot.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He is a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

So wait, so we don't know what they can do in the future?

[Ryan Rosillo]

We can't predict that, but we do.

[Colin Cowherd]

Know what Jimmy Butler did in the past.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, but this isn't a past list. It's today. Keep it current. Right now. Today, Now. Six years ago, Durant won, but at this point in his career, he just wants the ball.

[Colin Cowherd]

I would agree. So what does that mean? Does that mean Devin Booker is 2, a great 2?

[Ryan Rosillo]

He was the next guy should have been on the list. He. It was e. You know, my bench was going to be Booker, but the staff said you get one bench guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Apparently we're like the Lakers. We only play like five people. That's hard.

[Colin Cowherd]

So let me ask you, do the lakers currently have two ones or is LeBron the best supporter?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I. I would argue The Lakers have two ones, but no, two, three, four, five and six. I mean, seriously, LeBron's still got a one. He's. He. LeBron's a one. Luke is a one. I don't like his lack of defense, but he is a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Donovan Mitchell has been incredible for several years.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Been to a conference, he's a one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You want me to go one more? Okay. Production.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Physically reliable.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Comes to play every night.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's got dog in him.

[Colin Cowherd]

He does, but sometimes he shoots too much. Yeah. I think the stat is when he's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You're like one, you're looking at results in the playoffs. I'm saying, do you check the four box? Donovan Mitchell's a one. Boncaro is a one. This is the pro. You get into this, you're projecting what they'll do in the playoffs. I have bought. It's like quarterback production. I don't care about your playoff record. Justin Herbert's A starting quarterback. C.J. stroud's a starting quarterback.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't care if they've won playoffs game.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think the big difference here is you're looking at what they are. Yes, I'm looking at what they can be.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, that's just a bunch of rainbow.

[Colin Cowherd]

Nonsense based on stats, though it's rooted in fact.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yours is all based on stats. So you love Harden and I never bought into it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I did take the Rockets places. Now at this stage, the club.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What places did he take as well, but because he can never get him finals.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, that's got to be a minimum. Like Joel Embiid. I pushed back hard on that. He's never been to a conference finals.

[Ryan Rosillo]

To me, by the way, Harden came off the bench in his only finals.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. Was okc. But he took the Rockets far.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Pushed the the underachieved based on predictions and odds every year. Couldn't work with his buddy Westbrook. Couldn't work with the great Chris Paul.

[Colin Cowherd]

Not a lot of people have worked with Russell Westbrook. He's working now. As in six me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Hey, no throwing shade at Russ on this show. And he anymore, Maxi.

[Colin Cowherd]

How come he's nothing. Remember, he started the season as one of your favorites.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I wrestled with Tyreek Maxey. I think. I'm not sure I wrestled with it, but I will argue. And another guy's Evan Mobley. I think he's another guy. That it could be a one. Right now, he's a two again. I only had six spots.

[Colin Cowherd]

Who's the two to Anthony Edwards in Minnesota. Do they not have one?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Julius Randall.

[Colin Cowherd]

Good game last night, but I. I don't think he's a two, is he? If he's a three, you're set. Well, so Minnesota lost their two.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's right. So Julius Randall's a one. You may not be a playoff team. He's a two. Minnesota, you can win a playoff series. He is a three. Then you're a team that can get to the finals.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I like this 1, 2, 3 strategy, but it seems like, you know, you're my guy. But you got too many ones, bro. I mean, I like Bankero. He can be a one. No, he's not there yet.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The idea. You think there's only six or seven ones in the league, just like there's.

[Colin Cowherd]

Only six or seven elite, untouchable quarterbacks.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I think there's like 25 ones.

[Colin Cowherd]

Excuse me, 25 ones.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And not every guy that's a one can win you a title. You get one team a year.

[Colin Cowherd]

But it's possible that if you have a one and aren't going anywhere, he ain't a one, he's a two.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't care if the Knicks. I don't care if the Pacers don't win another game. Halliburton checks all the boxes, dog. Productive, reliable, physically and emotionally. Every game, ready to play.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let me ask you some guys. Cade Cunningham, he's a one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

John Morant, he's a two. That's it? That's all you got?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I was going to say Dame, but he's hurt.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Dame is no longer a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Not physically reliable.

[Colin Cowherd]

Rockets don't have a one. And they were the number.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The Rockets don't have a one. Shen Goons, a two. Fred Van Vlietz probably should be a three. Four. Amen. Thompson is a really good two.

[Colin Cowherd]

Potential. Yeah. Huh. Interesting.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you've probably got closer to 10 to 15 ones.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, no, I got probably 21s. I think there's a bunch of great players, huh? Trey Young, he's a two, maybe a three. Sometimes he doesn't play any defense, and he's hard to get along with.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, Wemby would be a one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Obviously, Wemby's a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Cooper Flag hasn't played an NBA game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, let's. Let's let him dribble in the league once. Can I get an exhibition effort out of him? No, I. He's not a one. I don't know what he is, but he's not a one. I know you're not fun to watch. Isn't one of my boxes swagged out? He's fun. I mean, he's creative. Hour three.

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[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to an Iheart podcast.