Jason McIntyre (2:24)

Yeah. I don't.

Alex Curry (2:25)

Are you not a big golf fan?

Jason McIntyre (2:27)

I'm wearing down.

Alex Curry (2:28)

Talked about this.

Jason McIntyre (2:29)

This is some heavy lifting over here. I'm weird. I don't even know if I'll watch golf today.

Alex Curry (2:34)

You just need the updates. It was so cute. They had, like, family day yesterday and all the kids out on the course, like, dressed in the. The caddy outfits. Yeah, it's adorable.

Jason McIntyre (2:42)

It's fun.

Alex Curry (2:42)

All right, special time of year.

Jason McIntyre (2:45)

Let me start this hour with the five players under the most pressure in these upcoming NBA playoffs. Okay, now this list, it was a difficult one to make because I had some guys in here and the staff's like, whoa, no way, no way. J, Mac and. Well, let's start with Countdown. We'll go five to one. Let's start at number five. I think Jimmy Butler is under a fair amount of pressure in these playoffs. Forces his way out of Miami, where he took the Heat to the finals twice. Okay. Initially, didn't want to go to Golden State. Then they ponied up big money and he's like, all right, I'll check it out. Initially, they're awesome. And Butler's kind of finding his footing. Remember, this is a locker room where he's usually an alpha and they already have one in Draymond Green. So how does Butler fit in? He has to step up when Curry is held in check. They don't have a number two guys. Podzemski ain't hitting a threes ever again in a game like he did against the Lakers. I think Jimmy Butler, who you guys know, I'm a big fan of Butler. He's under a lot of pressure in these NBA playoffs. Number four, Ja Morant. Boy, just when you think Ja Morant has cleaned up his act. Okay, so last week he points at the warriors bench with a gun thing toward Buddy heel. And then they told him, don't do it. He does it again and then he pretends to lobber grenade. After they told him, please don't do that anymore. It's like, bro, what. What are you doing? John Morant got them into the playoffs several years. Then he's been hurt. Then he's got the off court issues. Somebody pitched me the idea that John Morant wants out of Memphis and he's starting to, like, make noise. Was he involved in getting their coach fired recently? I don't know. I don't know what's happening in Memphis, but maybe John Morant's not long for that city. I think he's under a of Pressure to at least win a series with the Grizzlies. Next up, and this is a divisive topic. Jason Tatum at number three. Okay? Cowherd would have him number one. Obviously, you know that I'm a Tatum guy. I know his trainer a little bit. I'm a big Tatum fan. Before I get to the negatives, I'm going to remind everybody he's going to finish fourth in MVP voting. He's going to be first team all NBA. And in the playoffs last year, he led them in the playoffs in points, rebounds and assists. And in the Finals, he led them in points, rebounds and assists. So why is he under pressure? Jay? Well, there is the situation that happened in the Olympics last year where Jason Tatum, the all NBA guy who's a perennial top five MVP candidate, kind of got benched. And then in the finals he didn't win Finals mvp. And if you want to draw a parallel, Steph Curry, when they won their first title, did not win the MVP. It went to Andre Iguodala for his defense on LeBron, which is a little suspicious because Curry still had a pretty damn good series. So then they lose the next year, then Curry gets kd. KD is the finals mvp. And then you have this whole like, is Steph Curry really the best player? Like, I didn't love that topic. Then he won his Finals MVP and everybody backed off. He's a top 10 player all time. Listen, Tatum is still a young guy. He's the best player on that team. No disrespect to jb, but there is some pressure for him to act and show that he is an elite top five guy in this league, which I think he is. Next up. Oh, Karl Anthony Towns, my main man. You guys know I'm a big Knicks fan. They're not gonna run Brunson out of town. If the Knicks lose to the Celtics in the second round, Bridges ain't going anywhere. They love OG Anunoby. There will be a fall guy if the Knicks fall apart. Now, if they get swept, it could just be Thibodeau. But I have to worry about Karl Anthony Towns who lands in New York, couldn't defend this chair that I'm looking at here in the studio can score a lot, but when you don't defend. He was benched in the playoffs last year by the Timberwolves because he can't guard anybody. So Carl Anthony Town's number two and obviously at number one, Shay Gilgeous Alexander. He's going to win the mvp. I don't think he Should. He's a great player. We know that. He gets to the line. He's Mr. Free Throw Merchant. But folks, you can't win the MVP. You can't talk all the trash and dance around like OKC has been doing all season. You win 65 plus games and then you shrink in the playoffs. We'll see what the path looks like. But I'm just saying it now. You're not blaming J Dub if they don't deliver, you're not blaming Chet Holmgren. This is going to be on the mvp. And historically, guys who win the MVP don't deliver in the postseason. Sga. Without a doubt, under the most pressure of any player in the upcoming NBA playoffs. By the way, Trae Young just missed the list for me. All right, let's get to our guest. He is the Athletics NFL draft analyst. He just released the Beast, his annual draft guide, Dane Brugler. Dane, how you doing, man?

Colin Cowherd (7:29)

I'm good. How are you, Jason?

Jason McIntyre (7:30)

I'm excellent. I'm fired up because, holy cow, you got some hot. Now, I don't know if they're hot takes because you watch way more film than anybody, but let's start at the top. Cam Ward almost certainly will go one to Tennessee, but do you believe he's the best player in this draft?

Colin Cowherd (7:46)

Best player? Not necessarily. But you can understand why the Titans have come to the conclusion that this is their best route to go. Because if it's not Cam Ward, what is their avenue to a quarterback? And so with the improvements that Cam Ward has made year over year, because let's remember he was a Wing T quarterback in high school. What he did at Incarnate Word and then Washington State and in this past year at Miami, he got better year over year. 56.1% of his completions this year were over 10 yards. He has the arm, he has the elusiveness in the pocket so he can create time for himself, go make plays down the field. So a lot of what you want in an NFL quarterback Cam Ward offers, and he's still just 22 years old. So you think about by the time he's 24, 25, if he continues to grow at this trajectory, I think you're feeling pretty positive about the return on investment by taking him number one. Because if he didn't go number one, I promise you he would go number two to Cleveland or number three to the Giants. So you can understand where the Titans come to the conclusion that Cam Ward is their guy.

Jason McIntyre (8:49)

Yeah, I agree with most of that. I guess the one thing I'M struggling with him. Whether it's the frame, the fleet of foot in the pocket, the art where he's releasing the football, I don't have a great NFL comp for him. Who does he remind you of as an NFL quarterback?

Colin Cowherd (9:05)

He reminds me of a taller, not as fast version of Kyler Murray because you see all the different arm angles. You see him win in structure, but also out. Out of the pocket. His ability to create and move is a big part of that. But, you know, he. When you're. We were talking about quarterbacks in the, in the NFL draft, it's almost like you're making a bet, right? I mean, you're making a bet that this guy can be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL. And I think for most teams, they see Cam Ward as a guy that can be maybe a top 12, top 14 quarterback, because that's what you're looking for. The goal shouldn't be to find the next Patrick Mahomes. The goal should be, hey, let's find a guy that's going to help us compete and let it help us get to the playoffs. Because once you get in the playoffs, anything is possible. And I think a lot of teams believe Cam Ward could be that guy.

Jason McIntyre (9:52)

So the, the Browns are at 2, and about two minutes ago, you were like, hey, if Cam Ward fell to two, perfect fit for the Browns. So let me ask you, Brown's quarterback solution situation is murky. I know there's Kirk Cousins possibly waiting in the wings, but why wouldn't they just go get Shadour Sanders? Isn't Stefanski such a good offensive mind that whoever he gets is going to work?

Colin Cowherd (10:16)

And that's going to be the big question. Where does Shador land? Is it number two to the Browns, number three to the Giants, or does he fall? And look, my evaluation of Shador has been pretty consistent since the season. I think he's a late one, early two. I think for whatever reason it's become, you have to love or hate Shador and it's okay to just like him. And that, that's where I'm at with him, where I think he can be an NFL starter. He's smart, he's tough, he's po. He's accurate. Maybe not as accurate as 74% completions would lead you to believe. 28% of those completions are screen passes. So that's a big part of what inflated that completion percentage. But I just, I wonder about the way he likes to play. Does he have the physical traits to get away with that? In the NFL, the offensive line was bad. There's no question about it at Colorado. But there are a lot of times where he is running himself into sacks and he's not making the right decision from the pocket. And so there's things about his profile that really, I think you can start in the NFL, but is he really going to uplift everybody around me and carry a franchise? That's. That's my hang up where, okay, I like him, I think he can start, but am I taking him top five overall? Because it's not just about. If you miss on him as a top five pick, it's okay. You're passing on Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, one of these guys in the top five. So I wouldn't be surprised if we're talking mid first round, maybe even in the 20s. And Shador Sanders is still available.

Jason McIntyre (11:42)

So last year you had penix as your fifth, 52nd best player. Bo Nix is 44th and you have Sanders, Shador at 34. Those two guys went top 10. Is there a world where Sanders still goes top 10 or you think that that ship has sailed?

Colin Cowherd (11:56)

Oh, no, there's certainly a possibility because again, he can be an NFL starter and we know there's plenty of teams out there desperate for quarterbacks. And you know, it's always tough when you do it year to year like that because last year's draft was a much better draft in terms of overall talent. So in this class, those two guys, Penix, Bo Nix, they would have been a little bit higher. Higher than even Shador is in this year's draft. And so, you know that that's kind of messes with the rankings a little bit. But you know, I understand why a team is going to look at Shador and say, you know what, maybe he's not check every box for us. But hey, we need a starter. He could. Let's roll the dice on him. And so the Browns at 2, the Giants at 3, the Saints at 9. If I have to make a bet today, I say he gets through those three spots and he's outside the top 10. But you know, we'll have to see what draft day comes.

Jason McIntyre (12:50)

How much of this has to do with Dion and all the noise that and the chatter that's been around him and Shador all season? I mean, Dane, I got to be honest, I haven't heard anything about Cam Ward's parents. I don't know who they are. You know, I don't know much about him at all. I feel like Shadour is just in our face all the time. And so is Dion.

Colin Cowherd (13:07)

That's why I have the beast. Right. So you can look up. It tells you exactly what Cam Ward's parents do for a living and all about his background and all of that. But, yeah, you know, it's. It's obviously unique, right? How many quarterback prospects have we talked about where, you know, a dad is a high profile athlete and coach like, like Dion is? I don't. At the end of the day, I don't think it's going to matter all that much. I think, you know, there's been a lot talked about and said about Shador, and, you know, maybe he's too brash for some teams. Maybe he doesn't fit with, you know, the culture they're trying to build. At the end of the day, teams want winners. Teams. And you think about what happened at Colorado the last two years, they were 1 in 11 in 2022, and then the last two years with Dion and Shador there, they went 13 and 11. So above 500. That's not easy to do. And so at the end of the day, the NFL, they want winners. And I think that will trump everything. And so when you look at Shador, I don't think the Dion thing is really going to factor in.

Jason McIntyre (14:07)

Interesting. One last level on Dion. So I thought I had read that Shador's offensive coordinator was his dad, like in high school, and then they go to college and they were together and then they go to Colorado and they're together. I believe he's been under the thumb of his dad for something like the last five or six years of football. Maybe going back to youth football. You would know. Does that matter? Because as a GM saying, man, if I draft this guy, I know his dad wants his job in two years.

Colin Cowherd (14:34)

Yeah, you know, it's. I think Deion is happy with where he's at in Colorado now. If Shador is drafted by the Giants and things don't go great this year and they clean house, you can bet all we're going to hear about is Dion to the Giants. But, you know, I think if you're a gm, you need to be doing what you think is best. You need to be doing. You can't really be thinking about, all right, what's 20, 25 and 26 and 27? Just draft the best quarterback. And if you believe that Shador, then I think you have to do it. I just think when you, when we keep it to the field and on the field, I think there are enough question marks with him that I think Teams are going to look at it and say, look, let's, let's get Travis Hunter, let's get Abdul Carter, let's get Will Campbell, our left tackle and you know, let's look at our other quarterback options because this is a real, this is the first year since 2008 we don't have a third year junior at the quarterback position. It's just a really unique quarterback class. We've got two juniors, two underclassmen. But Jalen, Milroe, Quinn, yours are both four year guys. So this is just all around a really unique class.

Jason McIntyre (15:37)

All right, Dane, let me ask you about Jalen Milroe. So he's had his highs, obviously. That Georgia game, he looked phenomenal. And his lows, the Oklahoma game just burned the tape. A lot of questions comparing him to Anthony Richardson, which is not a good thing. I don't know. Is it crazy to say? I remember college Lamar at Louisville and I'm just, Jalen looks similar to him. It could just be that they're skinny, tall, fast dudes. I don't know what, do you like Melro or not?

Colin Cowherd (16:09)

I mean, I do like him. I would love to draft him on day two and develop him, but what's the, what's the price tag going to be? Do I have to draft him in the top 40 in order to get him? That might be a little bit too early for me. But he's an exciting player. So I think you can understand why a team would come to the conclusion that, hey, let's bet on a guy that has 4, 3 speed, he's a decent sized player. I mean, he is thick. He's 215 pounds at just over 6 foot. So he has almost like a running back build to him and he has a really strong arm. And you set it up perfectly. You watch the Georgia game, you watch the Wisconsin game, and it's like, okay, I'm all in. Let's work with this guy. But then you watch Michigan, you watch Oklahoma, and it's like, okay, his feel from the pocket needs a lot of work. And you know, it's funny you bring up Lamar because this year for, for, for Milroe, 12 of his rushing touchdowns were 10 plus yards. That's the most by a quarterback over the last 25 years. The only one that came close was lamar back in 2017. He had 11. So Jalen Milroe, explosive athlete with his legs and he's also explosive with his arm. He had 16 passing touchdowns this year. They averaged 33.6 yards per touchdown. So this Guy explosive with his, with his legs explosive through the, through the air and he's a winner. He was 21 and 6 and his 27 starts at Alabama, he won the academic Heisman. The comp that I keep coming back to is Jalen Hurts. You know, one of the few second round picks that has actually panned out. Jalen Milro is kind of like a rocket fueled version of, of Jalen Hurts where we have to remember Hertz coming out of college was a little bit raw and it's going to take time and there were a lot of bumps along the, on, on the, along the road with, with the Eagles before he became the Jalen Milro we're talking about now as a Super bowl champion. So with Milroe, if a team can be patient with him, they might have something in two, three years. But what's that price tag going to be where you have to draft him? That that's kind of where teams are split on Jalen Milro.

Jason McIntyre (18:13)

So the one I keep coming back to is when the packers had Rodgers who had won I think, think two MVPs and they went and got Jordan Love. And I'm sure you remember Jordan Love coming out interception prone, but some of the traits were there and the packers took him and Rogers was ticked off. Can you see a scenario where say the Rams who have had to deal with Matthew Stafford contract squabbles the last two offseasons and the Rams say you know what, let's just get our guy Milroe McVeigh, whoever McVeigh touches turns to gold, he resurrects careers. Can you see a scenario where Milro sneaks into the first round?

Colin Cowherd (18:45)

I think it's possible. If I'm a betting guy I would say there's a better chance he goes round two. But sure you could see an avenue where he goes round one. Right now the over under on quarterbacks in the first round is two and a half. I'm taking the over on that. And it's not necessarily Milroe, but Jackson Dart from Ole Miss. There are a lot of Tyler Schuck fans around the NFL. The quarterback from Louisville, seventh year senior, he's going to be 26 year old rookie teams really like Tyler Shuck. And so there's a chance all five of these quarterbacks talking about Cam Ward, Shador Sanders, Jackson Dart, Tyler Schuck and Jalen Milro, there's a good chance all five of those are off the board in the top 50 to 60 picks. But how many will sneak into the first round? I, I think you, you know, the Steelers are a possibility, the Rams are a possibility. And then we have to talk about the Browns and the Giants. If they pass at 2 and 3, we could easily see them move up from those early picks in the second round into that late first to get one of these guys. I think that if I had a bet right now, two weeks from the draft, I think that's probably the most likely outcome.

Jason McIntyre (19:47)

Interesting. Well, we could close out on Jackson Dart. And you know us college football fans, we see, okay system. Lane Kiffin, Ole Miss, that's Matt Corral, you know, white guy who's, who's good. I don't know about this Jackson Dart hype now. I just remember watching the season and I was like, okay, he's good. Tyler Schuck, by the way. I don't remember anything impressive from him during the season. But again, you're watching the tape and every single snap. Are you really that high on dart and shuck.

Colin Cowherd (20:18)

The two guys that I would love to draft on day two? Kind of like Melro. But we know in the NFL and with the draft, there's a quarterback bump, there's a quarterback tax where you have to draft them 20, 25 picks earlier than probably you want to, just because there's so many other teams competing for these playoffs or for the, for these quarterbacks. And you know, exactly. Talking about that Ole Miss offense, I, I came away more impressed with Lane Kiffin and the way he sets up his offense and calls the plays than I did with the quarterback. And that's not really a knock on Jackson Dart. It's just, it's such a scheme or quarterback friendly scheme that it really makes things easy for him. 53% of his snaps were play action. A lot of screens, a lot of one read, okay, it's not there, Boom. I'm gonna take off and use my legs and get six yards. And you know what, that works at the college level. But he's going to be asked to do so much more at the NFL level than he was asked to do in college. And so I think he has the physical traits for it. And teams and his teammates as well rave about the intangibles, the competitiveness with Jackson Dart. So I think that those intangibles will help him throughout the process. But at the end of the day, does he have what it, how long is it going to take before he can get on the field? I think it's going to take some development time. And then with Tyler Schuck, yeah, I mean, he's 26 year old rookie, seventh year senior, not ideal. This past year at Louisville was the first time in those seven years he played more than eight games because of injuries. But he 6 4, 230 pounds, a twitchy arm. He has a really explosive down the field. And you know, he was actually the number two recruit for Oregon way back in the day behind Penny Sewell. So he's been in college football a long time. But if not for the age and the medical concerns, we'd be talking about Tyler Schuck as a top 25 pick.

Jason McIntyre (22:03)

Smells like Brandon Whedon. I don't know if you remember that name from back in the day. Last one I forgot. Abdul Carter. So there was a report that came out and I know as we get close to the draft you get a lot of negative stuff about his work habits at Penn State. And then you couple that with the, with the injury and the surgery and you're like, is there a world where Abdul Carter maybe slides to say 5 as opposed to 2 or 3?

Colin Cowherd (22:26)

That sounds like the team at 5. Really hoping that happens. I'd be, I'd be pretty shocked. I think there's a good chance. We see Cam Ward go one, Travis Hunter go two to the Browns and then Abdul Carter three to the Giants. Abdul Carter actually I believe in New York today, meeting with the Giants who don't really have a need at pass rush. You know, they paid Burns last year. They still have Kevon Thibodeau. But when you're drafting that high, you want to draft players, not positions. You want the impact guys. And so with Abdul Carter watching him, what he did against Notre Dame in the playoff game with a bum shoulder and still they couldn't block him. Yeah, that's the type of guy you want to go after. And so I think that if the, if the Patriots sitting there at 4 and Abdul Carter still on the board, they will be ecstatic. I just don't think he gets out of the top three when it's all said and done.

Jason McIntyre (23:16)

Sounds about right. Dane Brugler, the Beast. You got to check that out. He's dominating over the athletic. Great stuff, Dane. Thanks for great 15 minutes of NFL draft stuff. Love it.

Colin Cowherd (23:25)

Yeah, anytime. Thanks, Jason.

Jason McIntyre (23:26)

No problem. Coming up next, the joker speaks. Alex will tell us what the three time MVP said about his head coach getting fired. That's next year on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

Jeremy Hobson (23:46)

We live in a divided country.

Jason McIntyre (23:48)

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

Jeremy Hobson (23:51)

Kinds of different people.

Alex Curry (23:52)

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

Jeremy Hobson (23:55)

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Alex Curry (24:03)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

Jeremy Hobson (24:05)

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

Jason McIntyre (24:10)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (24:10)

Jeremy, Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

Alex Curry (24:13)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (24:14)

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important, important issues.

Jason McIntyre (24:18)

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

Jeremy Hobson (24:22)

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

Jason McIntyre (24:31)

We should be examining what our government.

Jeremy Hobson (24:32)

Spends its money on and are these jobs necessary?

Jason McIntyre (24:35)

And what are we doing here?

Colin Cowherd (24:36)

But that doesn't seem to be what.

Jeremy Hobson (24:37)

We'Re doing in this situation. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (24:45)

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the king of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Jason McIntyre (25:14)

I know that song. Damn it. I love some good bumper music. I'll never forget when I started out in radio. I had a Saturday morning show and Ryan Music was the producer and I was like, so excited for bumper music. I had like a full list of songs I sent him and then the show comes and, like, he doesn't play any of them. And I was like, oh, this must be how it works. I don't do the music. I'm not the. And of course I realize he's not even the music guy, even though his name's music. Whatever. Just stories from J Max history in TV radio. Anyways, great stuff from Dane Brugler at the Athletic. I would check out the Beast. That's my weekend reading ahead. Let's go to Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is The Herdline news.

Alex Curry (25:58)

We're going to continue the draft conversation J. Mack because we're two weeks away from the start of the draft and the top edge rusher in the class has shut down his visits. Abdul Carter took his last visit to England who has the fourth pick in the upcoming draft. Now he is a. He's a hot pick. He is probably the best plug and play player in the draft right now. So it's going to be interesting. We were listening to Dane who we just came on and he was saying if Carter is available at 4 Pats will be ecstatic. But there's a good chance he goes 2, 3.

Jason McIntyre (26:36)

I. I don't get the Browns. They just signed Miles Garrett. Yeah. You have no quarterback. Your skill position players stink. What are you doing?

Alex Curry (26:44)

No, you definitely.

Jason McIntyre (26:45)

I think you go Browns.

Alex Curry (26:46)

Yeah. Browns need a quarterback situation. But this was also something interesting that Dane said and shows you how valuable that Carter is is. It doesn't at this point when you have a player of this caliber and he's that good even if you already have like you don't need. You don't necessarily like have as big of a need at that position. You take him because he is such a great player and you got to think about the future.

Jason McIntyre (27:08)

But then do you get on the path to the Pittsburgh Steelers where we're just investing in defense and we've got a great defense and that just doesn't. You can't win with just a good defense. And I know people say, well the Eagles, their offense carried them. They scored like 50 against Washington and 40 against the Chiefs. Like their offense is a machine but.

Alex Curry (27:24)

It'S also putting an important on. Yeah. Like offense sells tickets but defense wins championships. Like you got. You gotta stop. The other quarterback on the field is anybody.

Jason McIntyre (27:32)

I guess the Eagles stop.

Alex Curry (27:33)

They just did it. They just did it.

Jason McIntyre (27:36)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (27:36)

That's why. That's why I think it's such a hot topic right now because we literally just saw the super bowl champions.

Jason McIntyre (27:41)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (27:42)

Do this.

Jason McIntyre (27:43)

They also had a great offensive line, quarterback, receivers.

Alex Curry (27:46)

We have champs.

Jason McIntyre (27:47)

Personally, I would go they need a quarterback.

Alex Curry (27:49)

I would go they need a quarterback like that. The most important.

Jason McIntyre (27:52)

Cousins is the answer. Alex.

Alex Curry (27:54)

We don't know yet. We don't know yet. It's tough. It's a similar Aaron Rodgers situation. Like they're older and coming off one of the hardest injuries to come back from an Achilles injury. So it's. And they got re injured like he got re injured. Like kind of midway through the season he was fighting through injuries. We still haven't seen a fully healthy Kirk Cousins.

Jason McIntyre (28:14)

I still think highlight of Kirk Cousins career was when he was on the airplane with the Viking and he had the chain on and he was doing that celebration. That is to me the highlight of his career. I know he had some good moments in Washington.

Alex Curry (28:26)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (28:27)

And, and in Minnesota as well. Not Atlanta. But I just love that video. It's so funny. He just looks.

Alex Curry (28:32)

How do you not love Kirk Cousins? Especially after watching quarterback the first season and you kind of got that behind the scenes look into his life. He's just such a kind human being.

Jason McIntyre (28:42)

Seems like a great guy. Got railroaded by the Falcons.

Alex Curry (28:44)

I think he's on it again and.

Jason McIntyre (28:46)

Now he's got to go to Cleveland.

Alex Curry (28:48)

I don't know. We'll see, we'll see if he gets to play. I think that's all he wants.

Jason McIntyre (28:51)

Have you ever been to Cleveland, Ohio, by the way?

Alex Curry (28:54)

I, I covered. Where's Ohio State? I've been to Columbus. Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (28:58)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (28:58)

So that's a bustling city.

Alex Curry (29:00)

Okay. But I, I, I, I had a Show on Big Ten Network so I was doing like Tailgate 48 and that was the first game. Urban Meyer's first game as their head coach was the first game I covered. Yeah. So that's the only time I've really been spent time in Ohio. It was fun. It was wild.

Jason McIntyre (29:15)

So much fun.

Alex Curry (29:16)

I know, right? Okay, let's move on. Amon Ross St. Brown went on Kevin Hart's Cold as Balls podcast and outlined his goal for the Lions this year. Now St. Brown said he wants to win a Super bowl, going as far to tell Eagles fan Kevin Hart he wanted to face the defending champs in week one. Now I think this is a kind of a positive note for the Lions this season is that they don't have as big of a target on their back like they did last year. So they can fly a little more under the radar because people think they're going to have a setback year. You talked about it yesterday when you were taking the under.

Jason McIntyre (29:53)

Oh yeah.

Alex Curry (29:54)

I think there's also going to be a lot of focus on their offensive coordinator who's now the head coach of the Bears and Ben Johnson, their former offensive coordinator. So I think they're going to get a lot of the spotlight in the division this year and as long as they make it in the playoffs, you just gotta just make it to the playoffs. Anything can happen. But again, there's a lot of new this year. Both of their coordinators are now head coaches somewhere else. But it's still very much the same team. They just haven't been able to find the six six that they want yet in the playoffs.

Jason McIntyre (30:28)

So, Alex, these are the road opponents for the Lions next week. Okay, let's go on the road.

Alex Curry (30:32)

Let's go.

Jason McIntyre (30:33)

At Washington, at Philly, at Cincy, at Baltimore, at Casey, at the Rams. Every one of those teams had a winning record.

Alex Curry (30:44)

No, those are, like, the toughest. Those are, like, toughest teams in the league.

Jason McIntyre (30:47)

1, 2, 3, 4. The six of, like, the top 10 teams. Yeah. That being said, Alex and I are living in the same south bayish community. I saw Jared Goff recently.

Alex Curry (30:57)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (30:57)

Have I told you the story?

Alex Curry (30:58)

No.

Jason McIntyre (30:58)

So I was, you know, hanging out by the beach and watching my kid. You know, I'm at the age where my kids are like, dad, don't come on the beach with us. Just be from a distance. So I'm in the parking lot with my dog, and I'm blocking cars, and Jared Goff is walking toward me with his wife.

Alex Curry (31:13)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (31:14)

And I was like, oh, am I on your way? They're like, no, we got bikes. I was like, that's a good thing, Jared. I didn't want to. And he's like, oh, you know me. You know, and he's. He watches the herd. He's a super nice guy.

Alex Curry (31:23)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (31:23)

And I didn't have the cojones to say, Jared, I gotta ask, were you concussed against Washington in the playoff game? Because he got knocked out of the game, came back, had a rough one. I like golf. Like, he seems like a super nice guy. His wife is obviously very attractive.

Alex Curry (31:38)

Fits like, they have all the pieces in Detroit. They've been the best they've been in franchise history. The last two years, they just. They've been the super bowl favorite and have fallen short. So I think now, after falling short the last two years, losing their offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, and a lot of other assistants, expectations are going to be a lot lower, which is going to be better for them in the long run, because they're not going to have that huge target on their back. And they can kind of be that underdog, fly under the radar again and surprise everybody.

Jason McIntyre (32:07)

Yeah, they're not sneaking up on anybody.

Alex Curry (32:09)

No.

Jason McIntyre (32:09)

And I'll say this about golf. Listen, he won a lot with the Rams. He's won now with Detroit. Like, he's almost underrated if he's been.

Alex Curry (32:17)

To a Super Bowl.

Jason McIntyre (32:18)

Yeah.

Alex Curry (32:18)

You know, he knows what it takes to win. But, yeah, I'm rooting for this Lions team. I like. I Like Dan Campbell, I love their grit mentality. So we'll see. It'll be interesting. Okay, let's move to the NBA. The Nuggets took the court for the first time without former coach Michael Malone in a decade, and Denver got the win. And Nikola Jokic talked about the impact of losing his coach afterwards, saying that the firing woke the team up, adding, people say we're vulnerable, but the beast is always most dangerous when they're vulnerable. I mean, we'll see. I still think it was a huge mistake that they fired their head coach a week before the playoffs start. And I don't know if you saw it last night, but Joker was like, drawing up the plays on the sideline. Like, that's. That is a huge loss not to have your leader designing the plays and so you could just go out there and execute. Now he's having to kind of pick up another responsibility and I don't know, someone needs to be in charge, but I don't know. I. It's just. This is. It's a big change to have your star player drawing up the plays.

Jason McIntyre (33:29)

The narrative was, oh, my gosh, Jokic is going to ask out where's he going to be next year. I felt I took the bait. That's fine. Okay. I wonder if that's right, that they are kind of sort of dangerous now because they have a new coach. I don't. Is there offensive philosophy going to change? Jokic is doing plays in the huddle and, oh, by the way. Yeah. They started Jalen Pickett. Like, Malone barely played him.

Alex Curry (33:53)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (33:53)

Played Russell Westbrook way less.

Alex Curry (33:55)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (33:56)

You know, Peyton Watson playing more like.

Alex Curry (33:58)

Okay, what the GM wanted, because we know the GM wanted to play the young guys.

Jason McIntyre (34:02)

Has to be ticked off. All of a sudden, now you're playing the young guys and I'm fired. So I don't. There is a world where the Nuggets are like, a little scary and unpredictable.

Alex Curry (34:10)

Okay.

Jason McIntyre (34:10)

Like, you know what you're getting with the Lakers, the Warriors. I don't know. Are things going to change dramatically? Can you change things dramatic? You played high level soccer. If you fired the coach the week before the playoffs, can you fundamentally change a formation?

Alex Curry (34:23)

And I mean, you can because you, like, you know, what you've been doing all season. But it's always like, it's. There's kind of one or two ways that it can go when you lose your leader. Right. It's all you all band together, let me prove you wrong, and, like, you rise from it. Or it's like, what. What do we do now? We don't. We don't have the voice that's been leading us for the last decade. Like, it's insane. I, I still don't think it was the right move at this point in the season when you're in a playoff position. But again, like Joker saying all the right things.

Jason McIntyre (34:55)

Alex with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news.

Alex Curry (35:02)

All right.

Jason McIntyre (35:02)

Been teasing this for most of the show, but coming up next, Kyler Murray said he's making a big change to his game. Okay. And I see the headline. I'm like, oh, oh, my gosh. Can't wait to talk about it. We'll do that next year on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

Colin Cowherd (35:18)

Hey, it's Steve Cavino and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Cavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive.

Jason McIntyre (35:59)

Show on planet Earth.

Colin Cowherd (36:00)

Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Ko Vino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

Jeremy Hobson (36:16)

We live in a divided country.

Jason McIntyre (36:18)

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

Jeremy Hobson (36:21)

Kinds of different people.

Alex Curry (36:22)

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

Jeremy Hobson (36:25)

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Alex Curry (36:33)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

Jeremy Hobson (36:35)

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

Jason McIntyre (36:40)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (36:41)

Jeremy, Neil, Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

Jason McIntyre (36:43)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (36:44)

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important, important issues.

Jason McIntyre (36:49)

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

Jeremy Hobson (36:52)

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

Jason McIntyre (37:01)

We should be examining what our government.

Jeremy Hobson (37:02)

Spends its money on and are these jobs necessary?

Jason McIntyre (37:05)

And what are we doing here?

Colin Cowherd (37:06)

But that doesn't seem to be what.

Jeremy Hobson (37:07)

We'Re doing in this situation. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (37:15)

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Alex Curry (37:45)

Saturday, catch the reigning AL mvp, Aaron Judge, as he leads the Yankees against the Giants at 3pm Eastern on FS1.

Jason McIntyre (37:56)

All right, so I, I. This is gonna be a tough segment. I'm just gonna preface it. It's gonna be a tough one because there was a moment in time where I love me some Kyler Murray. That kid is so talented. He's fun, he's fast. And obviously the backstory. Let me hype him up before I say some not so great things. So, obviously, Kyler Murray, in the history of storied Texas high school football, there's a case for him to be the greatest high school football player ever in Texas, which is saying something. Mr. Texas football twice. I think he had like a 420 run, won a bunch of state championships. The guy was a legend in high school, okay? In college, he wins the Heisman, then he goes number one in the NFL draft. And in year two, Kyler Murray started running a ton. Okay? The numbers in year two for him running in the NFL were it was like, oh, my gosh, is this the next Cam Newton? Just a small guy. He had 11 rushing touchdowns and 819 yards rushing, okay? And that was the path to victory. It was like, oh, this. So the next year he runs a little bit less because he got hurt running and he they make the playoffs and then There was the fateful game against Aaron Donald in the playoffs where Donald was just bodying the hell out of him and he essentially sat on the bench and was like, no mas. I can't take it anymore. I don't want to go back in. And that from all, from that point, it was all downhill for Kyla Murray. That being said, the talent is undeniably still there. However, the last couple years, he's not running as much, he's getting hurt more. And you start to be like, is this guy a franchise quarterback? So Kyler Murray came out this week and talked about running, something he has not really been doing the last couple years. It's like, break in case of an emergency, run Kyler, run. Otherwise he's not running a lot. And how do I know this on a granular level? Because I bet a lot and I know when Kyler Murray scrambles, they're a great team to back because he is hella good on the run, escaping pressure, just creating plays with his legs. But he didn't want to run because of the injuries. So here's Kyler this week on the big change he wants to make this season.

Colin Cowherd (40:03)

I'm open to running more next year just because it's such a, it's such a weapon. I think for us, part of the emphasis going into the next season is conceptually on time. I feel like I'm one of the best in the league. And, you know, I think where we get better is, you know, making things happen outside the pocket. That's where a lot of money's made. You know what I mean is, is. Is scramble drill and making people hurt, making people pay when, when the play breaks down. I think that's something that we didn't do very well. And I think we're very capable, especially with my ability to, you know, make things happen.

Jason McIntyre (40:36)

Interesting. Saying all the right things. It almost sounds like he's challenging his coaching staff. Let me run more. That's what I heard. Now, you know, somebody says a quote, you might hear something different. So here's the problem with Kyler. He went number one overall. He still doesn't have a playoff win. And I don't, I don't know why, but like, cowherd really, really loves irrational love for Kyler Murray. He throws a great deep ball. Whoopty damn. Do you know, like, come on, like, what is that worth? Is he winning football games? Is he making winning plays? And he really hasn't lately. That being said, I was challenged when I started kind of pooh poohing. Kyler Murray. And someone said, well, how do you know he's not Matthew Stafford? Like, Matthew Stafford went number one overall. Amazing deep ball thrower, great arm, goes to Detroit. He didn't win jack squat. How do you know it's not the organizational failures in Arizona that's holding Kyler Murray back? And obviously the first counter is, well, Detroit never gave Kyler Murray an iPad to research the plays and look at tape and film, and he didn't turn it on once all season. That happened. That's why they had to write a homework clause in his contract. And then Kyler kind of stomped his feet like a 4 year old and whined and they removed the clause. That didn't happen to Matt Stafford. That being said, Stafford then leaves Detroit, marries McVay with the Rams and that offense, and he wins a Super bowl. So the NFL's really, really tough to talk about sometimes because Matt Stafford was in purgatory. Detroit, one of the worst franchises in the league for decades, and he struggles there. Then he goes to a smart coach, innovative, and they win a Super Bowl. Like, could you make that argument for everybody? And I keep coming back to guys, Patrick Mahomes, your new goat. Like, nobody wanted him in the top nine in the draft. He had to fall to 10. What is Patrick Mahomes if he ends up in, I don't know, Jacksonville, where Trevor Lawrence can't win a damn thing. What is Mahomes like? He's got the talent, but he landed with Reed. So maybe I need to take it easy on Kyler Murray. And we had Dane Brugler on earlier this hour looking at the draft, and there is a quarterback in this draft who reminds him of Kyler Murray.

Colin Cowherd (42:57)

He reminds me of a taller, not as fast version of Kyler Murray because you see all the different arm angles, you see him win in structure, but also out, out of the pocket. His ability to create and move is a big part of that. But, you know, he. When you're, we were talking about quarterbacks in the, in the NFL draft, it's almost like you're making a bet, right? I mean, you're making a bet that this guy can be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL. And I think for most teams, they see Cam Ward as a guy that can be maybe a top 12, top 14 quarterback, because that's what you're looking for. The goal shouldn't be to find the next Patrick Mahomes. The goal should be, hey, let's find a guy that's going to help us compete and let it Help us get to the playoffs. Because once you get in the playoffs, anything is possible.

Jason McIntyre (43:42)

So that's interesting. He essentially was like, yeah, Kyler Murray's in the 12 to 14 range, 10 to 14, whatever you want to say. And I thought about it. I was like, is he maybe paid like it, but is Kyler? And then you start doing the list, you're like, okay, maybe. And somebody challenged me this morning in the morning meeting, like, who do you think's better, Tua or Kyler Murray? I was like, well, Tua has. McDaniel 2 has been an MVP candidate. The concussions kind of balance. They don't really balance out because he's missed more games than Kyler. But I would say I would rather have Tua than Kyler Murray. And I know that's not gonna be popular. And then I was pushed further. Jay, would you rather be the jets right now with the Justin Field situation coming off, Aaron Rodgers coming off like Zach Wilson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, blah, blah, blah. And this shocked some people, and they were not openly mocking me, but I was like, I'd rather be the jets and just having bites at the apple and getting a. Maybe a new quarterback every year until I find that superstar that day and said the goal shouldn't be to find Patrick Mahomes. Yeah, you want to find the best guy as opposed to having Kyler Murray who is like in the 12 to 14 range. And maybe you'll be in a contender for a wild card spot. Maybe you'll make the playoffs. No, I don't want to be in the middle ground. I want to be awful to get a great quarterback or I want to be great competing for Super Bowls. I don't want to be in the middle. I don't want to be average and my comp. And I know it's not apples. Apples, but the Portland Trailblazers for years had Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum. Every year they were 50 wins. Playoffs, are we going to win the first round? Second round, we made the conference finals. Like, that's pretty good, but that's kind of the middle. I want to shoot for the moon, or I want to go to the bottom and shoot for the moon. And I just. I'm sorry. I don't love sitting on Kyler Murray as my franchise quarterback. But I do like that he's open to the idea of running more. And he almost sounds like he's pushing it and he wants to get better. Maybe it comes with age. He's 27, remember, this is a guy who I heard from Some people in Arizona like the kind of guy whose mom is still doing his laundry when he's a pro athlete making 25, 30, $40 million a year. Like, that's not normal. Now, maybe he's growing up a little. He's. He's 27. And on. Second chance. Jason, Alex, I'm being a big boy here. I'm giving Kyler Marie a second chance. I'm going to stop the bombing. I'm going to say, Kyler, do you. I'm gonna give. I'm gonna give him a second chance.

Alex Curry (46:13)

Yeah, I. I think it needs to be soon, though. You know, he's back from injury. We got to see something fast.

Jason McIntyre (46:20)

Hurry up. Just like the Dallas Mavericks. We need to see something next. Coming up next, the Dallas Mavericks. Dude, you guys are running out of time. Lucas. Cooking. You're not.

Jeremy Hobson (46:29)

Spring is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with UberEats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana, that's a no. But a banana, that's a yes.

Jason McIntyre (46:42)

A nice tan. Sorry, nope.

Jeremy Hobson (46:44)

But a box fan? Happily, yes.

Alex Curry (46:46)

A day of sunshine?

Jason McIntyre (46:47)

No.

Jeremy Hobson (46:47)

A box of fine wines. Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that.

Jason McIntyre (46:51)

Get almost.

Jeremy Hobson (46:51)

Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app. For details. We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (47:29)

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast?