Rachel Nichols (7:02)

Exactly. I started as a child. No, I started in college because what I got to do is I went to Northwestern and I was a stringer for the Washington Post and I got to cover the 90s bulls as a 19 and 20 year old and just kept going since. So it was been a pretty great ride.

Colin Cowherd (7:18)

You and Mike Greenberg, I think.

Rachel Nichols (7:19)

Exactly.

Colin Cowherd (7:20)

Yeah, he was covering them too.

Rachel Nichols (7:21)

Exactly.

Colin Cowherd (7:22)

So he said this about the Lakers. You watched it last night. Is that LeBron's first half was by LeBron, standard 3/4 rough, maybe in his worst half ever as a pro. Offensively, yes. But I do think they're in a weird spot they could get to a two seed. They could also fall to a play in game. They play the Rockets Thunder warriors at Chicago's tricky. That team can shoot.

J. Mac (7:43)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (7:44)

I look at them and I think to myself, they have. They have to play hard the rest of the way.

Rachel Nichols (7:48)

Yeah, absolutely. Look, the offense is still working itself out. They completely changed the way they played once Luka Doncic came into town, which is exactly what they should have done. But it takes a while. I am not worried about the offense. LeBron is still working his way back from injury. They're all still learning how to play together. They are going to be fine. Teams pick their poison with Luca. They have to decide what to do. And usually teams end up blitzing him, which leaves someone else open. And he's a great passer. So they will figure it out. Offensively, the issue is the defense. And frankly, we had Rob Polinka sit up on the stage when Luka Doncic was introduced and tell us this. Not that we didn't know, but I'm saying even the Lakers understood, right, that once you trade away AD you have a front court defensive problem.

Colin Cowherd (8:30)

Right.

Rachel Nichols (8:30)

And they were not able to fix it before the trade deadline. And they are going to try to fix it this summer. But there is a limitation of how far you can go if you have that kind of hole. And it's great that they played so well defensively in the weeks after the Luka Doncic trade, But that required 150% effort from every guy, every minute on the floor. That is not sustainable. And it was also more of a swarming sort of switchy defense. Guys figure that out, the more tape they have on you. It's leaving a lot of guys open and leaving themselves open to exploitive matchups. And by the way, they're letting guys shoot threes right and left. That's going to bite you in the playoffs too.

Colin Cowherd (9:05)

Yeah, it is. For the record, Jared Vanderbilt didn't have to score last night. He's still wildly valuable. Sure. Like Jared Vanderbilt is like wildly important for this basketball team.

Rachel Nichols (9:16)

Jackson Hayes, I mean, yes.

Colin Cowherd (9:18)

You know, it's interesting. I got an NBA guy who I have deep respect for. Tom Tolbert texted me yesterday. He said, hey, be careful about your cynicism of okc. He. He said, here's stats that are really important. They lead the league in creating turnovers and are last in committing them huge. Which, by the way, shows you a maturity which is beyond the years of a team. They're a smart basketball team. When you talk to people in the league Because I have questions about their young players in road playoff environments. What do the people around the league think?

Rachel Nichols (9:51)

Oh, they think they're for real, for sure. And look, there is the fact that this group of guys has not gotten past the second round. And therefore, when the bright lights come on of the conference finals and the NBA finals, are they going to be able to match up against the teams that have so much experience? I mean, the Boston Celtics, I mean, they've been in the finals what, three, the last four years. I mean, it's just they're playing against teams in some cases that have a lot more of know how of how to do those situations. That being said, number one overall, offensively, number four defensively, this is a team that knows how to play together. They've been playing together a long time. They've excellent coach of the year coach. And they are ready. They have the MVP candidate. I mean, they really feel like they are ready to make a move. And people around the league have an enormous amount of respect for them, especially since the rest of the west, as you just pointed out with the Lakers, it's a crapshoot.

Colin Cowherd (10:40)

Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (10:40)

I mean, in the east you can say, hey, the Celtics and the Cavaliers, they've really separated themselves. And anyone else would be upset.

Colin Cowherd (10:47)

Knicks are third and they don't match up with the team.

Rachel Nichols (10:49)

Right. Anyone else, if they made it to the conference finals, it would be an upset. You can't say that in the West. I would, you know, write in the Thunderer just because they deserve that respect after what they've done this season, it could be one of what, six teams opposite them. A lot is going to depend on the bracket and who they face in the conference finals. The Thunder, if they do make it there, as we expect, that's going to determine if they get to the finals and can really make it on that stage.

Colin Cowherd (11:12)

So when Adam Silver showed up on the show and I really like, I can do Adam once a week. I think he's so smart. I did, I did push back. I said, you guys get so paralyzed by trades. Memo. Everybody loves trade.

Rachel Nichols (11:25)

Love it.

Colin Cowherd (11:25)

By the way, they're fun. Shohei, Angels, Dodgers. Yes. It feels lopsided. Look at your numbers.

Rachel Nichols (11:31)

Yes.

Colin Cowherd (11:31)

So my take is I'm watching KD last night. He's auditioning. He's unbelievable. And by the way, he wanted to make sure Boston knew, yeah, I can score on your defense and your defense is unbelievable. He's averaged 37 a game, shooting 60% from the floor in the last three games. So. And, and it's interesting about the playoffs. Not only do I love the playoffs for their intensity, but they do show you very clear weaknesses of the Knicks.

Rachel Nichols (12:01)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (12:01)

Or the Bucks or the Lakers. I think KD now, J. Mack, disagrees. I think he's going to have a huge market of really good teams. What do you hear?

Rachel Nichols (12:15)

I completely agree with you. Sorry J. Mac, but you know, look, you And I were two of the people who 10 years ago were saying, man, KD's game, it's going to age well in this league. And guess what? I mean, it wasn't stunning insight, but we were right. Kevin Durant is still extremely valuable to have. And there are of course a lot of people back analyzing the trade with Brooklyn and saying that Phoenix gave up too much for him and they did give up a lot for him. But the fact that it hasn't been a more successful run there for Kevin Durant has really largely been about the Bradley Beal trade. It is about how handcuffed the team has been in his time there because Bradley Beal was acquired and his salary and his no trade clause and the lack of flexibility to build the roster around KD and book the way they need to be built. And Bradley Beal is a great guy and he is a good basketball player. I think his skill has been sort of shaded by all the contract stuff around him. He is a good basketball player. He does not sit with Kevin Durant and Devin Booker.

Colin Cowherd (13:09)

It doesn't work.

Rachel Nichols (13:09)

And in fact, not only just moving him to the bench, which they have done when he doesn't play and he's out hurt right now this team is 13 and three when he doesn't play and the other two do. Prior to losing to the Celtics the other night, which of course most people lose to the Celtics These days, they were 4 0, including beating the Cavaliers without Bradley Beal. So to me, one of the big questions of where does KD go this summer? It could be the Miami who wants him. It could be the Rockets who who want him. However, maybe there's a voice of he could stay in Phoenix if they can get Bradley Beal to accept and want a trade and another team to want him with that deal. But Brad said some interesting things recently. He said, look, in the middle of the season, there's too much going on. I didn't want to do a trade at the deadline. He said, this summer you can lay everything out and get a better sense of what you want and where you want to go. And if Phoenix is messaging him right now, we are not playing You. At some point Bradley Beal wants to play basketball.

Colin Cowherd (14:08)

Sure.

Rachel Nichols (14:09)

And so he is going to look around a little more than he has the past couple years and say, okay, maybe this team wants me and I want to go play for them. If they get that flexibility and freedom, I'd be curious at least what the possibilities are. And they're. They're few because they've traded away all of their draft picks, but they're few if you could keep Kevin Durant and Booker together because I do think they play great together.

Colin Cowherd (14:30)

Yeah. The. You know, I was watching Cooper Flag plays tonight and I was telling people you're much younger so you remember some of this. And being on the east coast you remember a lot of it because I was a west coast kid and loved The Big East, Pac 10 basketball. Didn't care. I was a big east. Me too.

Rachel Nichols (14:48)

Georgetown, D.C. girl.

Colin Cowherd (14:50)

Yeah. Basically, if you're 20, if you're under 35 years old, you don't remember what college basketball and the NBA used to have this symbiotic relationship. You had about nine Cooper Flags a year that you loved in college, went to the NBA and were really good immediately and did well. Now Cooper Flag is an outlier where like could. Could he be a second team all Stars and he may be in the east. If he landed somewhere is that last year's draft was wildly international and nobody can name the first eight players drafted the. I mean the NBA. Do you think the NBA. And it's kind of a theoretical question, but I think it's so fascinating because he is so good. Do you think the NBA realizes deep down that they thought they could do it with themselves for the G League and part of this ratings regression. It's not politics. We need college basketball as our feeder system. Look at the ratings for women's and men's March Madness. It's crazy.

Rachel Nichols (15:50)

No, it was great in those days for the NBA. The problem is they don't control it. You know, they could possibly. They were talking about lowering the age limit again back to 18. They could possibly decide, I've always said why not make it 20. As long as there is a feasible route in the G League for guys who are turning 18 to make money because you don't want to impact these guys ability to be professionals. The rest of the world gets to work as late teenagers and 18, 19, 20 year olds. You don't want to limit these guys ability to earn a living. But if there is a route for that, it doesn't have to be the NBA where they earn a Living. If there is a route for them to play professional basketball, both internationally and here in the US and you raise the age limit to 20, you would get more developed players entering the NBA. You'd be able to scout them better because you can see guys like Cooper Flagg coming a mile away. But there's a ton of guys who maybe were scouted one way and they turned into another way. Gianna Sentetokounmpo. Nobody thought he was going to be him. No one thought that Nikola Jokic was going to be who he's turned out to be. So there are still guys who, if they had another year or two to develop, especially in college American players, you'd be able to know who they were more and they would be delivered to the NBA as more developed products. I am in the minority. I am the only one I hear saying, raise the age limit, don't lower it. But that is how I feel in terms of that question you just asked.

Colin Cowherd (17:07)

So I proposed it this week that there are solvable and unsolvable problems. The NFL had the concussion issue. It was solvable. Pay attention to it. Don't roll your eyes at it.

Rachel Nichols (17:18)

Right.

Colin Cowherd (17:19)

And change the rules.

Rachel Nichols (17:20)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (17:21)

Steroids, solvable. More testing. Yeah. And then there are unsolvable issues. Football's a violent game. Guys get hurt. Seriously. That's just the way it works. Y. I think load management is a bit more solvable because the young players like playing. And also, we're not going to give you awards unless you play them in a minute games. I think tanking is unsolvable. I think it is the unsolvable issue because in March, if I can get Cooper flag, nine of my guys have a chest cold.

Rachel Nichols (17:56)

Yeah. Interesting.

Colin Cowherd (17:57)

You can't. There's. I'm sorry. But the league, if you look at the greatest players ever, they've often ended up on teams. San Antonio was planning on Wemby three years ago.

Rachel Nichols (18:05)

Yeah, I mean, look, tanking is not solvable. You are 100% correct. Because look, the spurs, how they ended up getting Tim Duncan was that David Robinson had an injury and then he just seemed to have an injury the entire year. And then they got Tim Duncan and the next year Tim Duncan and David Robinson played together. Man, that's amazing. So it's not solvable in terms of we're done with it. But I will say the league has gotten itself into more trouble because of the way the contract situations have worked out and they've made efforts on the other end. They've tried to flatten lottery odds, but the Truth is that in 2016, because ownership around the league didn't like that, Kevin Durant went to the Golden State Warriors. They invented the supermax. And the Supermax was supposed to get guys to stay with the teams that drafted them more. The problem with that, though, was that you had uneven situations around the league because you had teams that just weren't in the right draft at the right time.

Colin Cowherd (18:56)

That's right.

Rachel Nichols (18:57)

And guys, your team and owners felt bad about that. So then they created all these aprons. There's the first apron, there's the second apron. Guy Fieri is apparently managing the NBA. I mean, there's all of this stuff that restricts teams and movement and trades and all of the other things that the only really viable way to start from scratch and rethink your team is to tank. And in fact, Matt Ishbia, the owner of the Phoenix Suns, just gave a really good interview and he talked about, hey, we are never going to do that here. We are never going to clear the decks and tank. We want to win every year. We are going to try to win every year. And that's great. And fans applauded it. Everyone around the league, in every front office you talk to, guys were sort of sending me quotes, sending me quotes from that article. Hahaha. New owner syndrome. He doesn't get it yet. Don't he? Doesn't he know it's literally the only way to do it? We saw it with the Houston Rockets a few years ago and now they're number two when the West. I mean, we've seen it over and over. So the league has contributed to creating this problem because owners want to stop themselves from overspending. And then it's not fair over there. It's not fair that way. It's not fair that way. It's not the league office's fault. I think the ownership has to take a look at itself in the mirror, at the situation that they have put themselves in and why so many of them have to tank and then have terrible ticket sales for a couple of years in a row. I mean, it's just cyclical.

Colin Cowherd (20:16)

Yeah. By the way, the last three minutes of Rachel Nichols should be played over and over and over because that is the truth in all of this. And I said to Adam when he was on this show, I said, adam, you're paralyzed by trades. Kevin Durant and the warriors were the highest rated team. Of course you couldn't turn them off. Yes. It made people briefly uncomfortable. So did Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe made people Uncomfortable. For the record, Michael won six MVPs and went 6 and 6 in the Finals. Bill Russell, as the league was being formed and popularized, won 11 titles. Dynasties, UConn, women's and men's basketball, they're not the worst thing.

Rachel Nichols (20:55)

No, they're popular. Dynasties sell. Casual fans get invested in them. But it's not a front office issue. Adam Silver can't solve that when he has owners around the league at the owners meetings saying, that's not fair, that's not fair, let's make a new rule. That's not fair.

Colin Cowherd (21:11)

The other thing that made Katie work in Golden State was Steph was on a cheap deal because of his injuries.

Rachel Nichols (21:17)

It was such a crazy confluence.

Colin Cowherd (21:18)

Of course it was a complete confluence. Confluence of events. He shouldn't have been under that contract.

Rachel Nichols (21:24)

The salary cap blew up in a big bubble. The way it's not going to this time around, they're going to distribute the TV money more evenly. Over the years there were so many things about Katie going to the warriors that were not replicatable and yet they made all these rules and then all those rules created new problems and then that's now created this problem. So again, I don't think you're ever going to solve tanking Spurs, David Robinson, Tim Duncan. But I do think that they have gotten themselves into this pickle more where it is the only route now. And that is creating an issue for fans who want to watch good basketball games. I mean, you watch some of these games right now and it's like you can't even pick out. There's so many two way guys on the floor. You can't even pick out who's playing.

Colin Cowherd (22:02)

That's why I watched the Celtic Suns last night. Tatum's actually hurt, which is never hurt, but it was fun because it was like KD was playing like he was showing off to the league.

Rachel Nichols (22:12)

Well, the Suns have none of their own first round draft picks till 20, you know, through 2031. So they don't have to tank. They can't tank. It doesn't help them at helps the Houston Rockets. So they're going to put it all out there and Boston's getting ready for a championship run. But there aren't that many of those games right now, Colin. There are the games the other way around a lot of the time.

Colin Cowherd (22:29)

All right, almost professorial, just, just. You should have grabbed a dais, sat up there and told the league how it works. All getting smarter. Rachel Nichols, great seeing you as always.

Rachel Nichols (22:38)

Thank you so much.

Colin Cowherd (22:38)

Colin, live in LA. It's the herd one more herd the herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

J. Mac (22:49)

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Eligible purchases at US resi restaurants so you can get rewarded for eating what you love. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn more@American Express.com withamMax this podcast is brought to you by Pfizer. If you're 50 or older, getting sick can keep you away from where you need to be. You don't want surprises like pneumococcal pneumonia or invasive pneumococcal disease. You're 6.4 times more likely to get pneumococcal pneumonia compared with adults 18 to 49. It's recommended that people 50 or older get vaccinated. Being sick could get between you and the people who rely on you, so schedule your shot@vaxassist.com hi everybody. This message is brought to you by the official Whiskey of the Herd with Colin Coward podcast, Green River Whiskey. As you know, we've been having some fun getting to know Green River Whiskey. Let me tell you, there's a ton of incredible stories to be told in its 140 year history. How's this? For example, Green River Whiskey was once the most advertised whiskey in the world, but just now they've launched their first advertising campaign in more than 100 years. You see, it seems the team from Green river in reviving the whiskey have accidentally also revived its resident ghost. And he's quite a character, spending his days reminding us to keep it simple, focus on the quality, and have a little fun along the way. So if you want to see the ghost of Green river come to Life, check out greenriverwhiskey on their YouTube channel or head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's to green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. Product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly. Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road, and they're responsible for everything acceleration, braking, steering and handling Tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack. Whether you know exactly what you want or you're looking for expert recommendations, Tire Rack makes it easy. You're going to get fast free shipping, free road hazard protection and convenient installation options, including mobile installation, where they bring installation to you, your home, your office or anywhere in between. And of course, the best selection, including the full line of Falken tires. And they don't just sell tires, they test them on the road on their test track. Learn how the tires you want tackle evasive maneuvers, drive and stop in the rain, or just handle your everyday commute. Go to tirerack.comcolin to see their Falken test results. Tire Ratings Consumer Reviews Be sure to check out all the current special offers. That's tirerack.com Colin tirerack.com the way tire buying should be Again, people, what's really interesting about the world, I talk to this about my wife all the time. People overreact to everything. And I don't even know if I'm built for media anymore. Remember when David Letterman left the Late show because you had Jimmy Fallon doing musical bits and Colbert was talking politics and like, Letterman's like, you know, I don't think I'm built for this generation, is that the media now is like headlines. This week the madness is out of March. I'm the wet blanket. I'm the guy in the country that goes, no, actually, the ratings are up. We never watch for the madness. We watch for Duke and big brands in Carolina and, you know, Michigan State and Syracuse and UConn. Oh, this. It's like everything now is so overheated. And I think your job as a commissioner or a general manager is not overreact. Right. And so I think the NBA a little bit overreacted to Kevin Durant, to the warriors, because it felt unfair. And all the owners were upset. They were getting huge ratings. It wasn't going to last forever. Kevin Durant's, you could feel, you know, by year two, they were getting a little prickly and draymond and it was a little explosive. So now you're kind of trapped as a league. You know, by March, you know, seven or eight teams are like, just not playing anybody. And the Lakers can't do that, by the way, as we talked about earlier, because they could fall into a playing spot because the west is deep. There is a lot of talent. Just wait till next year when Dallas is healthy and they're going to be. The west is only getting better. Utah is going nowhere but up. Oklahoma City is Going nowhere but up. Dallas, when these guys are healthy, is going to be a team full of dogs. That's going to be a really good team. J Mac with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

J. Mac (27:40)

All right Carlin, let's start with the Lakers. Game winner last night from LeBron. Here it is, Lucy Luka with the drive, bounces off the rim and an incredible put back by LeBron. His eighth game winner. Colin in his career. Tied for second.

Colin Cowherd (27:56)

Second.

J. Mac (27:57)

Joe Johnson, ISO Joe, huh? Interesting. Got to be tied with Michael Jordan's number one with nine buzzer beaters. Kobe also at eight. And you see Paul Pierce FS1's own Paul Pierce at seven. I don't know. Did you see this live because LeBron had had a rough game as you mentioned earlier.

Colin Cowherd (28:14)

No, I saw it in YouTube. I watched the first half, I thought it was awful and then I went out and then I watched later. I watched Boston and Phoenix which. Which was a blowout, but it was a fun first half.

J. Mac (28:25)

Yeah, Lakers needed this one badly.

Colin Cowherd (28:27)

Oh yes.

J. Mac (28:28)

And I would expect him to rest. Guys, tonight against Chicago, a back to back by the way. I know people are like hey, Lakers defense stakes. This was their eighth game in 12 days. It has been a brutal stretch because of the canceled games due to the fires. They, they backloaded it. They're going to load up on that Memphis game Saturday night. That's a huge swing game in the west. And then they got the Rockets here Monday night out in la.

Colin Cowherd (28:49)

So what's Chicago? What are the Bulls getting in this game at home against the Lakers?

J. Mac (28:52)

I haven't seen a line yet. By the way, I'm all first quarters for the Lakers. The last two have not cast. I think teams have caught up. The market's caught up with the Lakers so no need to better those first quarters anymore. Guys. Let's move to the next next story. And that is the richest man in baseball makes his Met debut today. That's Juan Soto. Signed out 15 years, $765 million contract. He's a.285 career hitter, Colin. Did you know that?

Colin Cowherd (29:19)

Look at that.

J. Mac (29:19)

201 career home runs, 592 RBI, four time All Star.

Colin Cowherd (29:24)

Perfect swing. He has a perfect swing.

J. Mac (29:26)

Yeah, but $765 million.

Colin Cowherd (29:30)

There will be a billion dollar contract.

J. Mac (29:32)

Is he worth more than Patrick Mahomes? No, of course not. Is he worth more than.

Colin Cowherd (29:36)

Well, they also have Jokic. No, but they have 162 games. So the merchandising, the seats that's why baseball can do this. You have so many games. You only have eight home games in the NFL. Yeah, yeah. What'd you say, Ryan?

J. Mac (29:50)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (29:51)

Yeah. Mahomes getting another one.

J. Mac (29:52)

I don't think it'll be.

Colin Cowherd (29:53)

But the other thing is, because there's no salary cap, Mahomes is going to try to sign team friendly deals because he wants to win. Because remember, Mahomes has only been humiliated twice, both times in Super Bowls. Both times because they were bad at left tackle. So Mahomes. There's no value for Mahomes in taking every penny. It's like, I don't want to get. You can also get hurt if you don't share the money. In baseball, take whatever they give you.

J. Mac (30:16)

So it's to the point where the baseball contracts are so ridiculously large that if your kid is a major superstar athlete, basketball, football, baseball. Which sport are you telling him to go into, Colin?

Colin Cowherd (30:27)

Tennis.

J. Mac (30:29)

What? Are you not following the tennis lawsuit right now? Like, tennis players are woefully underpaid. I think you got to steer your kid toward baseball. Now, I don't know about you. I've never signed my kids up for baseball because I personally don't want to sit in the spring and the weather's great for like 90 minutes.

Colin Cowherd (30:45)

I said that one time and people said, you're selfish. I said, I'm not a taxi driver. I told my kids, I'll take you to games as long as you care. And then my daughter said, I don't want to be in a van all summer playing volleyball. I said, okay, great, let's go to the lake. I had way more fun going skiing with my kids and going to the lake than you did sitting in a gym in Youngstown, Ohio. Am I a bad dad?

J. Mac (31:06)

Never been to young. I think you could do both, but obviously one has an expiration date. But yeah, we never sign our kids up for baseball or softball. And I love hitting the baseball in the yard. It's fun playing some cats with your kids.

Colin Cowherd (31:18)

Listen, when my daughter played volleyball, I loved going to the match. Volleyball's quick. It's fun. It's fa. Volleyball. When you get.

J. Mac (31:26)

I'll be spending seven hours in a volleyball gym this weekend.

Colin Cowherd (31:29)

No, no, I did that for two years. Thank God my daughter got tired of it.

J. Mac (31:33)

This is year three.

Colin Cowherd (31:34)

It was the greatest moment in my life. Dad, I'm tired of being in a van all summer, going to San Bernardino. I'm like, great, let's go to the lake.

J. Mac (31:41)

San Fernandino final story. Colin is Jokic the second best player in the NBA after Luka, I guess. Anyways, he missed five straight games with an ankle injury and he came back and had that unbelievable assist and then he just kept going. 39 point triple double. In a 10 point win over the Bucks, Jokic scored or assisted on 61 of the 127 points. His 30th triple double of the season. I just beat down Nuggets look good. Jokic healthy.

Colin Cowherd (32:11)

Look at him. I mean, I'll tell you something.

J. Mac (32:13)

Now, Giannis did not play last night. I don't know if he was upset with the Dame situation.

Colin Cowherd (32:17)

Maybe he didn't want to get roasted. Hey, let me ask you this. Do we need to start having conversations? And I'm serious on this. Greatest centers of all time. So Russell's got all the rings, Kareem's got all the points. I'm just telling you, if you're asking me, Jokic, Shak, Akeem, those guys didn't do this.

J. Mac (32:40)

No, no.

Colin Cowherd (32:41)

I mean this, this is the most well rounded player set. First of all, here's Jokic. Jokic is the most skilled big by a mile over any big of all time.

J. Mac (32:50)

Is it Arvidus Sabonis, number two.

Colin Cowherd (32:51)

And he's a mile from him. He didn't play his best years here in the States, but I think we have to have it. We have to have a real discussion about this. Shaq was more dynamic. Shaq couldn't shoot. Shaq didn't ball handle like that late in his career. Shaq couldn't pass like that. Shaq, you had semi commitment. Shaq wasn't in great shape.

J. Mac (33:12)

Shaq is no Adonis, okay? Look at those doughy ears.

Colin Cowherd (33:15)

All I'm telling you is this guy is the most skilled big easily in league history.

J. Mac (33:21)

You know, I thought it was probably Olajuwon because his footwork and offensive. I mean, he was.

Colin Cowherd (33:25)

By the way, Hakeem gave Shaq fits. Yeah, Shaq would tell. I watched Akeem and Shaq go toe to toe in a series once. I mean, I saw them, maybe it was a series. I remember watching them play.

J. Mac (33:37)

Yeah, it was the NBA Finals. I think Shaq got swept. Yeah, they got.

Colin Cowherd (33:41)

Akeem is put him in a blender.

J. Mac (33:43)

I know you mentioned Russell and listen, your boy Simmons was on the show. I'm not besmirching his name. Bill Russell was 6, 9. Jokic would absolutely eviscerate him.

Colin Cowherd (33:53)

I'm sorry.

J. Mac (33:53)

I mean, Bill Russell was like compare.

Colin Cowherd (33:55)

Somebody in the six. Okay, good. So we'll.

J. Mac (33:57)

So let's. Not mention those guys anymore. Now, Wilt is an interesting one. Obviously never saw him live. You probably saw him live, right?

Colin Cowherd (34:02)

I saw old headband Wilt. Yes.

J. Mac (34:05)

How dominant are we talking? Like yo.

Colin Cowherd (34:06)

Well, when I watched him, he didn't exactly get back on defense. Wilt at that point had. He'd stayed up really late, didn't commit. I mean, it was. It was just not. It was not.

J. Mac (34:19)

He had some fun with the ladies, if I recall, right.

Colin Cowherd (34:22)

You know who was good in the 70s that nobody talks about and was unbelievable?

J. Mac (34:25)

Cindy Moncrie.

Colin Cowherd (34:26)

Bill Walton.

J. Mac (34:27)

Oh, well, yeah.

Colin Cowherd (34:28)

Dude, let me tell you something. I college to his first five NBA seasons. Walton was Jokic all time great. No, I mean Walton was Jokic. He was the best passing big ever seen. He could hit a mid Ranger. He was dominant inside. Bill Walton is the only player I've ever seen play center that looks like Jokic. I mean, Bill Walton was 40 years ahead of his time. 50.

J. Mac (34:55)

I just. If you're having a draft and you had. You could take any center you want and I got second pick. Who are you going first? Playing the modern game, I think you gotta go with Jokic, right?

Colin Cowherd (35:06)

Yes. Who would. I mean Wemby's.

J. Mac (35:08)

He's not quite as could be.

Colin Cowherd (35:11)

Yokiches.

J. Mac (35:12)

I mean, people listen. It took a while for me to come on board. I mean, he's unstoppable right now. I don't want to see him from the Lakers. I'd much rather take on your boy.

Colin Cowherd (35:21)

All you need to know is this. Draymond can shut down Giannis. Draymond laughs at the suggestion. He can do anything with Jokic. Draymond face Giannis. Was it like 10 days ago? Held him to five field goals. Jokic, I mean, Draymond's like, we're not even. Let's not. We're not nobody stopping him. It's like Michael Jordan in his prime. There was no Michael stop. Well, who was a Michael stopper?

J. Mac (35:48)

Dyson Daniels right now is really one of the best defensive players. No laugh. Do you know who that is?

Colin Cowherd (35:54)

I know Jared Jackson's a pretty good. Is he a good defender?

J. Mac (35:57)

Yeah. Memphis, he's a big.

Colin Cowherd (35:59)

You're right.

J. Mac (36:00)

Jordan torched, you know, the expansion era in the 90s. Magic and bird were gone. Whatever Jokic is doing it in an era with LeBron Curry. It's the best era at NBA.

Colin Cowherd (36:09)

You know, Phil Jackson one time was at a doctor's office and my wife was there. My wife doesn't know sports and she said. She told me she Goes, I knew I'd seen him before. And I'm like, I laughed because my wife spent so many years in Chicago and went to Bulls games. She goes, I knew this guy was a famous guy with sports, but I. I don't know sports. And it was a true story. And. And then Phil's a very gregarious guy, started talking or whatever. And my wife's cute. And then. So at one point my wife says, yeah, my husband does this. And my wife said, yeah, my husband's calling coward. Phil's like, tell him he's wrong about LeBron, because, you know, he coached MJ. So Phil doesn't like me, apparently, which is. I don't care.

J. Mac (36:51)

How many people have you said today don't like you?

Colin Cowherd (36:53)

Oh, I have a lot. Aaron Rodgers, number one. Yeah, I guess. I don't know why Phil wouldn't. I've been nothing but a gracious. I mean, I think he's the best basketball coach I've ever seen.

J. Mac (37:02)

He's up there, certainly.

Colin Cowherd (37:03)

What do you mean, up there?

J. Mac (37:04)

He's up there near the top. I need to give it more thought. I mean, you sprung this on me at the last second. I wasn't prepared to go through the greatest coach.

Colin Cowherd (37:11)

That's my Phil Jackson story.

J. Mac (37:13)

Steve Kerr's up there.

Colin Cowherd (37:14)

Steve's very good. He told Phil, no, thank you. I don't want to be the Knicks coach. That was his best move ever. No part of the Knicks. J. Mac with the news.

Rachel Nichols (37:24)

Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by.

Colin Cowherd (37:27)

The Herd line news. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich. It's the last game of the season and with amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com withamex this podcast is brought to you by Pfizer Let's Talk Health. You may not know about pneumococcal disease, but if you're 50 or older or 19 or older with certain medical conditions like diabetes, you're at risk. And it could turn your plans, big or small, into a hospital visit. So get vaccinated. It's one action you can take to help protect against pneumococcal pneumonia, an invasive pneumococcal disease. Keep enjoying everything you're looking forward to, even if it's just a podcast. Schedule a shot@vaxassist.com hi everybody. This message is brought to you by the official Whiskey of the Herd with Colin Coward podcast Green River Whiskey. As you know, we've been having some fun getting to know Green River Whiskey. Let me tell you, there's a ton of incredible stories to be told in its 140 year history. How's this? For example, Green River Whiskey was once the most advertised whiskey in the world, but just now they've launched their first advertising campaign in more than 100 years. You see, it seems the team from Green river in reviving the whiskey have accidentally also revived its resident ghost. And he's quite a character, spending his days reminding us to keep it simple, focus on the quality, and have a little fun along the way. So if you want to see the ghost of Green river come to life, check out at GreenRiver Whiskey on their YouTube channel or head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's to Green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. Product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly. Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road, and they're responsible for everything acceleration, braking, steering and handling. Tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack. Whether you know exactly what you want or you're looking for expert recommendations, Tire Rack makes it easy. You're going to get fast free shipping, free road hazard protection and convenient installation options, including mobile installation, where they bring installation to you, your home, your office or anywhere in between. And, of course, the best selection, including the full line of Continental tires. And they don't just sell tires, they test them on the road on their test track. Learn how the tires you want tackle evasive maneuvers, drive and stop in the rain, or just handle your everyday commute. Go to tirerack.comcolin to see their Continental test results. Tire Ratings Consumer Reviews Be sure to check out all the current special offers. That's tirerack.com Colin tirerack.com the way tire.

J. Mac (41:16)

Buying should be Saturday night, it's baseball night. Catch New York's newly minted superstar Juan Soto as he leads the Mets against Jose Altuve and the Astros or the Braves take on the Padres. Baseball Night in America returns Saturday at 7 Eastern on Fox. Check local listings for the game in your area.

Colin Cowherd (41:36)

So I went to a movie theater recently to watch Black Bag. Steven Soderbergh, who I watch all his movies. I talked about this yesterday. I'm generally gonna go to movies to watch directors. Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, Martin Scorsese. There's a handful of them. Steven Soderbergh did Traffic, Sex, Lies videotape. So he's got Black Bag. I thought it was very good, very quick, excellent movie. He does kind of quirky movies. David lynch, for a while, I went to his movies. I'm more director and writer over movie star, but whatever. But whenever I go to a movie, I notice this. I see a lot of seniors, and I tend to go to movie theaters, not when they're crowded. I go in the afternoon. I went 11:40 in the afternoon a couple weeks ago or a week ago. I go early. I never go at night. And I always noticed seniors, there's a lot of seniors to go to movies, and especially these, you know, these, these movies got food and alcohol. They're having the time of their life. And I always think like, like that the industry of movies, it's not really built for me. When you get me to a theater, I'm a busy guy. I got kids, I got businesses. Seniors, they're in a lot of movies. They're retired. They got nothing to do. They're hanging out. They love movies. I every time I go to a movie theater, I see seniors everywhere. And I think, that's a cool life. Go and watch a movie four times a week. I don't have time. So a movie is a true hit when you can get me a Casual into it. I went and watched Oppenheimer. That's a big hit. Okay, I didn't go to Barbie. All my kids did. Loved it. And again, my kids pretty busy. Only one of them is a movie zealot, Josh. So my point is, you need casuals, not the Die Hards, to really make it work. Movie theaters have always had seniors and Die Hards going, nobody's in a theater. It's when you get a big, you know, Avengers. I'll go to that. I'll go to Tom Cruise, Mission Impossible. I'll go to a Christopher Nolan movie. That's when you have a hit, right? You can't do it off indie films. Sorry, actors. You can't. You know, you got your passion projects. Everybody used to get those. Not as much anymore. You got to fund them yourself. So my take is the Yankees and Dodgers are favored to get in the World Series. And you know why that's great? Because the seam heads hate it. Baseball. The last 15 years, baseball purists didn't go anywhere. The Casuals left the Casual. My staff is full of Casuals. You know, who watched the playoffs last year? All the Casuals and the Die Hards. So when people. There's this thing about guys that, like, it's kind of braggy. Like, hey, man, I got the Major League Baseball package. I watch 142 games. Oh, so you don't have a girlfriend. Okay, it's not that cool. It's most people, even sportscasters, you know, you get kids, you have a life. You're doing stuff. You have friends. You don't want to surrender your life to sitting around watching Missouri Valley Conference basketball all day. So, you know, I had Rob Manfred on, and we were talking about this yesterday, about the Dodgers and Shohei's influence. I think it's greater than baseball understood. He's been a great player since he entered the league, but the shift from the Angels to the Dodgers has really been explosive. I mean, he had a great, great year last year that added to it. And I think the fact that the Dodgers won was really important, but it has exploded. I was just in Japan for the opener. The level of interest and excitement there.

J. Mac (45:09)

Colin, just absolutely unbelievable.

Colin Cowherd (45:11)

Yeah. No, I mean, it's just Ohtani felt wasted with the Angels. You know, I've said this before. I wonder if Joe Burrow is wasted with the Bengals and their cheap ownership. Now they went and spent some money on guys. So that's a very encouraging sign. But I mean, like Cooper Flagg, I'm being honest with you, would be wasted in New Orleans or Charlotte. He would be better going to play with Wemby. He would be better going to Philadelphia or Chicago. I don't think Utah is bad at all. I actually think with Danny Ainge, they're going to build a powerhouse like Sam Presti and OKC have. But to me, I think sports is so much better today than it's ever been. Are you going to tell me that Mike Trout wouldn't have been better for everybody, including Mike Trout, had he not. Had he been a Yankee? Doesn't it feel like Mike Trout's career is mostly been unseen? I'm not saying he's an anonymous phone call, but we watched highlights of him. Baseball would have been better off. Mike Trout would have been better off. Everybody would have won. The Angels, by the way, have had to pay him so much and he's been injured. I'm not sure it's helped them win enough. And Mike Trout's unbelievable. So this purity argument, you see this all the time in the Internet. That was a real trend for years and years, the purity argument. And we're not that pure. Sports is not that pure. You know, the NFL in the 60s and 70s, there was a concussion issue. People look the other way. Sports, you know, until they got called on it and had to write a billion dollar check, you know. You know, Barry Sanders would have been better playing probably for the Philadelphia Eagles or the Dallas Cowboys or Bill Walsh and the San Francisco 49ers. And it wouldn't have been just better for the league. It would have been better for the networks. It would have been better for Barry Sanders. This is better not just for baseball and the Dodgers. It's better for Ohtani. They can surround him with great players. He can lead off, he can hit third. Remember when Joe Maurer, the Twins, signed that massive deal at the time, a great player, catcher. I think he's from that area. They couldn't afford anybody else. Or Joey Votto signs with the Reds and they can't afford anybody else. Joey Votto, a great player, would have been better in New York. You could have. So, you know, it's like when Barry. Jeff Kent had his best years, when Barry Bonds was hitting behind him, he got better pitches. I mean, that's the reality of Ohtani. You can't pitch around him. Mookie's up next, then Max Muncie, Freddie Freeman, te, Oscar Hernandez. I Mean, you can't pitch around him. So it's. Everybody hated Katie going to the Warriors. I didn't. It's like history. We argued it was the best basketball team of all time. Mean, you and I watch the Globetrotters, Why not watch one that counts? I was like, yeah, this is the best basketball. And I do think the Bulls all time are better. If you could use. You know, the rules would have changed. Obviously, Golden State was smoother. Offensively, Bulls were better, in my opinion, much better defensively, length, toughness, blah, blah, blah. But I gotta watch history. I gotta watch history, like, all the. Like, I gotta watch UConn's Dynasty with Gina Auriemma. I gotta watch Pat Summits. I gotta watch KD's. I gotta watch Jordans. I mean, I've gotten. I think we have a chance at a dynasty. I gotta watch Alabama's. I want to watch dynasties. I want to watch the greatest teams of all time. You're not getting them in Minnesota. I mean, the reality in baseball is I'm a Mariner fan. Forget it. We can't afford it. And Seattle is not a poor city. It's a rich city. You got Microsoft and Starbucks. Minneapolis is a corporate hub. Baseball, they can't afford it. You're never going to get a salary cap in baseball because the player union is way too strong. I think Rob Manfred would like it. It'd make his job easier and he'd get less complaining from poor owners. But the bottom line is you're not going to get it with a players union. So the bottom line, the greatest teams of all time are not going to be in Kansas City. Doesn't mean the Royals can't win a World Series. They did. Played in two, could have won two. You'll get there. But what you'll need is. Is what you're seeing with some of these teams. They're bad for years. They get good draft picks, they hit on them. All of a sudden you look up and you're like, wow, the Guardians are good. Oh, my God, that team's got a lot of good players. Now, you may not have those players for eight years. You may get them for three before the Yankees or Dodgers poach them. But you'll have a shot. It just won't be as good a shot as the Yankees and the Dodgers have repetitively. And now I'm off my soapbox. This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This this commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iheart and Standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following upwithhate.

Rachel Nichols (50:12)

Big shout out to you for making it through the hectic holiday season this new year. Get clean quality pregnancy nutrient support off your to do list, including Ritual's best selling Essential Prenatal multivitamin designed with 12 traceable key ingredients to support a healthy pregnancy. With big changes coming up, take the small steps now and start today with 30% off a three month supply@ritual.com podcast these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease in Mississippi.

Colin Cowherd (50:45)

Yazoo clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery. It was my family's mystery. Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson.

J. Mac (51:19)

It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans.

Colin Cowherd (51:27)

From all over the country.

Rachel Nichols (51:28)

And when you subscribe to the Middle.

Colin Cowherd (51:29)

You also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.