Hour 2 - Rachel Nichols, Russell Wilson Will Start in New York

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 Featuring Rachel Nichols and Russell Wilson’s New Start in New York

Release Date: May 1, 2025

Introduction and Overview

In the second hour of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," hosted by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, Colin Cowherd delves deep into the complexities of the NBA Playoffs, focusing on the recent Lakers vs. Minnesota Timberwolves series. Joined by sports analyst J. Mac and special guest Rachel Nichols, the discussion navigates through coaching strategies, player performances, and potential future moves in both the NBA and NFL.

NBA Playoffs: Lakers vs. Timberwolves Series

Lakers’ Struggles and Coaching Decisions

The episode kicks off with a critical analysis of the Lakers' performance against the Minnesota Timberwolves. Colin Cowherd expresses frustration over the Lakers' strategic choices, particularly the reliance on veteran stars like LeBron James and Luka Doncic without adequate support.

J. Mac highlights, “The Lakers may have to move off Austin Reaves. They’re not building around him but around Luka and LeBron, which requires rim protection” (03:15).

Rachel Nichols adds her expertise, stating, “The Lakers have been very upfront about the Luka trade, but it left them at a serious deficit, especially defensively, which Minnesota exploited” (06:55).

Player Performances: Julius Randle and Rudy Gobert

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Julius Randle and Rudy Gobert's standout performances. J. Mac underscores Randle’s dominance, noting, “Randle just outplayed Austin Reaves, LeBron, and Luka. His rebounding and scoring were off the charts” (27:45).

Rachel Nichols concurs, emphasizing Gobert's impact: “Rudy Gobert combined in the first four games for 25 rebounds and was pivotal in the series’ outcome” (52:37).

Minnesota Timberwolves’ Upset Victory

The Timberwolves' unexpected triumph over the Lakers is dissected thoroughly. J. Mac attributes the victory to Minnesota's strategic focus on physicality and depth, stating, “J.J. Redick chose to play small ball against a big Minnesota team, which backfired in playoff physical basketball” (03:15).

Rachel Nichols highlights the importance of Minnesota's coaching, saying, “Chris Finch has been exceptional in leveraging Anthony Edwards and Rudy Gobert’s strengths to dismantle the Lakers’ interior defense” (06:55).

Warriors vs. Houston: Playoff Physicality and Injuries

Shifting focus, the conversation moves to the Warriors' outlook in their series against Houston. Colin Cowherd remarks on the Warriors' confidence and physical approach: “The Warriors gave up a game intentionally, showcasing their belief in their superior home performance” (10:40).

Rachel Nichols explains the implications of Steph Curry’s thumb injury, noting, “Players like Dillon Brooks might target Curry more aggressively now, pushing the NBA to reconsider its rules on player safety and retaliation” (11:42).

NFL Insights: Kyler Murray and Aaron Rodgers

Transitioning to the NFL, the discussion touches on Kyler Murray’s commitment to Arizona Cardinals. J. Mac shares thoughts on Murray's dedication: “Kyler feels more motivated than ever and is determined to lead the Cardinals to playoff success” (30:37).

The potential trade of Aaron Rodgers is another focal point. Colin Cowherd speculates on Rodgers' possible destinations, stating, “If Aaron chooses to play for just $10 million, he might consider teams like the San Francisco 49ers who align with his playing style” (54:20).

Rachel Nichols provides a counterpoint, suggesting, “Arizona needs to build a roster around Kyler, focusing on defense and complementary offensive players to maximize his potential” (10:40).

Mock Draft and Future Prospects

J. Mac engages in a mock draft discussion, predicting future NFL quarterback selections. He suggests, “Arch Manning could be the top pick, followed by Drew Allar at Penn State, highlighting the ongoing need for strong quarterback talent” (33:20).

Rachel Nichols adds perspective on the draft dynamics, mentioning, “With teams like the Rams and Browns needing quarterbacks, the value of a top-tier QB remains high, shaping future team strategies” (34:20).

Face of the League: Ant Edwards vs. Jayson Tatum

A heated debate ensues over who should be recognized as the NBA's "Face of the League." Colin Cowherd argues for Anthony Edwards, citing his dynamic playstyle and charisma: “Ant is a more dangerous player than SGA, leading the league in threes and driving to the basket effectively” (50:26).

Conversely, J. Mac defends Jayson Tatum’s consistency and fundamental skills, suggesting, “Tatum is exactly what you want from a star—consistent performance and excellent fundamentals, much like Tim Duncan” (47:27).

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Colin Cowherd and J. Mac reflect on the Lakers' strategic missteps and praise Minnesota’s coaching prowess. Rachel Nichols emphasizes the necessity for the Lakers to rebuild defensively and strategically around their star players during the offseason.

Colin concludes, “The Lakers are facing repercussions for their late-season trades and coaching decisions. It'll be interesting to see how Rob Pelinka addresses these issues in the summer” (52:37).

Key Quotes:

• “The Lakers may have to move off Austin Reaves. They’re not building around him but around Luka and LeBron, which requires rim protection.” – J. Mac (03:15)

• “Chris Finch has been exceptional in leveraging Anthony Edwards and Rudy Gobert’s strengths to dismantle the Lakers’ interior defense.” – Rachel Nichols (06:55)

• “Randle just outplayed Austin Reaves, LeBron, and Luka. His rebounding and scoring were off the charts.” – J. Mac (27:45)

• “Murray feels more motivated than ever and is determined to lead the Cardinals to playoff success.” – J. Mac (30:37)

• “Ant is a more dangerous player than SGA, leading the league in threes and driving to the basket effectively.” – Colin Cowherd (50:26)

• “Tatum is exactly what you want from a star—consistent performance and excellent fundamentals, much like Tim Duncan.” – J. Mac (47:27)

Final Remarks

"The Herd with Colin Cowherd" offers a comprehensive and insightful analysis of current sports narratives, particularly focusing on the NBA Playoffs' unfolding drama and significant NFL developments. The collaboration between Colin Cowherd, J. Mac, and Rachel Nichols provides listeners with diverse perspectives, enriching the conversation with expert commentary and engaging debate.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Now let's get this party started.

[J. Mac]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Knicks are in trouble tonight. Lakers are gone and OKC and Cleveland are dominating. Welcome into the Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. You know J. Mac, I was thinking about this. Nico Harrison has been to hell and back off the LUCA trade. And it wasn't a good LUCA trade. But one of the things he realized when you have luca, you have to have rim protectors. So remember the first time Luke and Kyrie together is all dicey, right? Okay. And at the trade deadline he's like, oh no, if you have Luke on your team, people blow by him. And at the trade deadline, Nico went and got size and we were all like, wow. But he told the Lakers, you can bring Luke in, but you're giving us AD you. And Lakers thought they had a deal for Charlotte Center. So J.J. redick doubled down in this series going, not only is Minnesota bigger, I'm going to go small. I'm not going to play Jackson Hayes. The Mavericks told you, if Luke is your star, you have got to have rim protection. Because the minute they when it was just Luke and Kyrie without rim protection, this was not a good team. In Dallas. They got rim protection at the deadline, they drafted a kid from Duke and you're like, oh my God, this is a real team. So in this series, JJ Redick is kind of like, hey, I'm going small ball and I'm sticking with it. And then I'm going to play my old guy. I'm not putting this series on 40 year old LeBron or undrafted Austin Reaves. This is about Luka and JJ Redick and I'm, you can't blame LeBron at his age for being tired in the fourth quarter. I'm not put. And Austin Reaves is an undrafted player. Now Nas Reed is undrafted too. But the truth of it is I'm not putting it on those guys. I'm not asking Austin reaves to drop 28. Julius Randle was a star in college and has made huge money. Lakers and Knicks and T Wolves, we've been waiting for him to pop, but this series really came down to ant eventually Gobert McDaniels, Julius Randle just outplaying Austin, LeBron and Luca. I'm not putting that on LeBron. LeBron was fine for most of the series. Randall And Gobert against LeBron and Luca last night, game five had double the rebounds shot 64% compared to 41% were plus 16. LeBron and Luca were minus 19. That's on Luka. That's not on LeBron. If you're going to play LeBron every minute in the second half of game four, I'm not crushing LeBron because he looked exhausted at the end of last night's game. That's not fair. And it's not fair to put it on Austin Reeves. What are we doing here? He's undrafted, so. Yeah, I mean, I didn't like J.J. redick's coaching. And for the record, Chris Finch and his staff are excellent. They're excellent. And there's a lot of good staffs in this league. Sometimes if you're Eric Spoelstra, you just, you can't overcome the talent disparity between you and the the Cavs. That's obvious. But you're seeing bicker staff with Detroit. I mean, New York should win that series. Detroit staffs having a good series. And with that we bring in. Rachel Nichols is joining us now live. Okay, so let's start with this. My, my take is, listen, sometimes coaching matters. It really matters in fourth quarters. This series was largely decided on Minnesota's really good fourth quarters, was it not?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes. Although you can only coach the roster you have. And the Lakers have been very upfront about this since they made the Luka trade. You make that trade 10 times out of 10, 15 times out of 10. I don't know how to make that more obvious. However, it did leave them at a pretty serious deficit for the rest of this season and especially going into the playoffs where people can target your weaknesses. And to me, that is what happened in this series is you had a physical big team in the Minnesota Timberwolves who knew that the Lakers had no interior defense to speak of and used that to their advantage again and again. Now, did coaching play a part? Yes. Chris Finch has been a great coach in this league. He knows how to move Anthony Edwards the way Anthony plays the best. He knows how to get to Rudy Gobert in a way that Rudy has confidence and he knew how to attack the Lakers. However, there's only so much that J.J. redick could do. And I have heard you this morning and yesterday talking about playing all those guys in the second half of the last game. That was clearly a mistake. Otherwise, I didn't see a lot of mistakes from JJ Redick here. I saw a roster that needs to get seriously fixed over the summer. But the Lakers have been saying that Rob Pelinka's line is it's like building a plane when it's already in the air. That's what they've been doing for the last third of the season in the playoffs. And now they get to have the plane on the ground and really tinker with it and build a roster around Luka. We'll see if they can get that done, but that is the task for this summer.

[J. Mac]

I think one of the things is I said earlier the playoffs are true serum, is that first of all, in the regular season, teams are not equally rested. If an old team comes into town, you can just get a tired old team and you're playing with young guys. But you get to the playoffs and you watch Miami play Cleveland and it's not close. And by the way, you're playing the same teams and the same guys every game. So your players, you don't get like. You can't fool anybody. They all know your pitches. So here's my concern with the Lakers going forward.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[J. Mac]

Is that Cleveland's better and younger. OKC is better and younger. I actually think Dallas next year when everybody's healthy, could be really good. Denver's going nowhere with Jokic. Minnesota obviously bullied the Lakers. They're younger, deeper, with more dexterity. The Lakers, let's be totally honest about this, may have to move off Austin Reed. They're not. They're not moving. LeBron and Luke. Don't they have to build a roster, Rachel, that is about Luka. And if you do, you need rim protection, not Austin Reaves.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah. No. There's two guys on that team, on that roster right now who are safe, and that is luka Doncic and LeBron James. Everyone else is up for conversation. They need an interior defensive presence, preferably someone who is a rim running center who can finish things the way Derek Lively is, possibly both. They need three and D wings who can take advantage of the fact offensively when Luka dishes those great passes and defensively can give them more depth. Because right now, when they do have Luka and Austin Reaves, they are Targets, Right. You have targets out there. So when you talk about the other rosters that are better than them around the NBA, there's no question about that. It's just a matter of, do you accept that trade knowing that your roster is going to be a little bit of a mess for the rest of the season? The answer, by the way, is yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. When someone hands you Luka Dodge, the answer is yes. And then you fix it over the summer. And we'll have to see how good Rob Pelinka is at fixing it over the summer. He left himself assets to work with. We're going to talk about Giannis and Kumpo in a little bit and everyone's talking about possible trade options for Giannis. We will see what a good job Rob Polinka did in holding on to assets during the Luca trade when we see just how much Giannis goes for if they do put him on the trading block, because it will be a significant difference.

[J. Mac]

Yeah, I want to get to that in a second. So I actually thought my. One of my takeaways I haven't talked about yet. The warriors have a ton of confidence against Houston, and I can tell because they gave a game away last night that they absolutely believe. Listen, we'll go home, we'll be more rested, and frankly, we don't think Houston in half court basketball is close to us. So they wave the white flag, you know, eight minutes in. But that tells me that Current and his staff are like, we're better than this team and we're much better at home. But the Steph Curry grabbing, clutching, thumb injury, it's not illegal. It's a reality of physical basketball. I think you should protect your iconic players. Fewer playoff games is the way to do it. You probably disagree, but what do you make of the assertion is that basically Houston's like, well, you just waved the white flag. So we got, we can mess around now. Every possession, doesn't matter. We're going to take some possessions and bang around Steph Curry.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, look, I think they would be looking to do that if it was a tight game. And by the way, the warriors committed a bunch of fouls coming out of the gate. I know Steve Curry is very frustrated with that. I do think that they will play better. I think everything you just said about them knowing how much better they are than this team right now is true. And that is always in the back of your head. But I think that even if it had been a tight, closely contested game, you would have absolutely seen Dillon Brooks taking shots at Steph Curry's thumb, because right now it's legal. And Dylan got up there after the game and said, I would do the same thing if someone had an ankle injury, and I would expect someone to go at me that way. It is legal in the NBA right now, after someone takes the shot, to be continuing to defend them and whack on them. That is something you can do. That is something I would expect after we're seeing this happen to Steph Curry. I would expect that to change over the summer when the competition committee meets and they twinker with some of the rules. But there is no question that right now he is not doing anything, quote, wrong in terms of what the NBA lays out. And you better believe especially a guy like Dillon Brooks, but really so many other guys around the league will use every advantage they can at this time of year, and he's using it. Steph Curry even got up there and said the same thing. He was surprised that we all saw just how bad that thumb was because he's got it wrapped all the time when he's in public for games. But some of the social media people on the warriors had taken pictures of guys going onto the team playing, and they're like, oh, Steph, we saw how bad that thumb was. He's like, what do you guys have, the feds on me? And when we explained what had happened, he was like, I love this league. There's nothing like the NBA for all the little sort of micro detectives out there with the Internet.

[J. Mac]

So Giannis is not only they're 1 in 9 in their last 10 playoff games and they're not competitive in many of them. This is a move I thought they should have made. I think a tiero was better to get ahead of it because with bigs, they can fall apart and they're lucky it didn't become embiid where the value just leaves. So Giannis has tremendous value. And I also think when the Knicks acquired male bridges for all the first round picks, they thought it was getting them closer to Boston. But now Tatum's exploded. Payton Pritchard is the best bench guy in the league, and Boston separated actually from the Knicks. And so my take is, okay, you got to take a big swing here and. And the Knicks were impatient forever. Then Dolan got into the sphere, let the basketball people run it, and they're incredibly well run. But I think it's time to get back to the impatient Knicks and like, this isn't close to good enough, right, for the Knicks.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah. I mean, look, even if they come out of the series, and I do expect them to, I don't expect them to be able to do much against Boston. They are just simply outmatched. So they do need to make a move. They would like to make the biggest move possible. Is that Giannis Santa DeCampo? I doubt it. Only because if Giannis does ask to get traded, if Milwaukee does decide to trade him, there will be other teams that can offer bigger packages for him. The Houston Rockets can offer a bigger package. The San Antonio spurs can offer a bigger package. And most of all, the Oklahoma City Thunder can offer the biggest package of all. So if you have Giannis playing with Shai, the presumptive MVP for this year, if you have Giannis playing, I mean, look, Giannis and Wemby, what would that be like? Or Giannis on this young, talented Houston team, I think if trade talk does center around Yanis, those are the teams we will see more in the mix. Which leaves a team like the New York Knicks to try to make a different kind of move. But there is no doubt that they need to make one.

[J. Mac]

So I want to end with, with this because I think it's, and I've said this before, Kawhi is an enigma. He's a remarkable all time talent, but he's. I always felt he's icing on a cake, but he's not the cake. He doesn't communicate, he's non verbal, he's not overly emotional, he can be sort of aloof. That's okay. But that game against the Nuggets, that last game when Westbrook was the tone setter and Russell can be flawed, but he plays with so much emotion that it makes you guilty as a teammate if you don't play with that kind of hustle. And I thought the Clippers came out flat. Harden was a hologram and it was the moment where you needed Kawhi to bark in the huddle. You needed Kawhi's leadership. And if they lose this series, the Clippers, because I think they're a better team and a deeper team, what do you do with the Clippers? Palmer's the richest owner in the league. This a first round exit when you have a great coach and probably a better roster, you got to break up the bet and a new arena, which is the talk of the league. This could have repercussions, could it not?

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't know. I disagree. I think they will continue to make moves around the edges. This is just sort of the best kind of most competitive matchup in the Bracket. It's a little bit of bad luck for both of these teams to have drawn each other. This is the series we all expect to go seven games. Had they matched up the Clippers against a different team in the west, we probably would be getting a different, quote, first round result. And then we wouldn't say, oh, they failed out of the first round. If they do indeed lose. I just think this is a strong team. They've got a gritty, tough defense. They've got talented players. I expect the to keep improving because this is a very strong front office that continues to improve. But I wouldn't break up anything. I think if they lose the series, you can point a lot to Aaron Gordon's sort of very fingertipy. Fingertipy, fingertipy basket. That dunk at the very end of the previous game. Because that is what to me deflated the Clippers a bit. They show up in Denver, you've got the altitude and you just sort of feel like we did everything and they still won that last game. So I'm very interested. I'll be at the arena tonight to see what kind of effort, intensity and energy the Clippers come out with. But look, the matchup is the matchup and the Nuggets are a very tough team. A lot of guys on that team are champions. And here's a stat I'll leave you with, Colin. You know, we talk about playoff Jimmy Butler all the time. He's not even in the top three of the guys who elevate their game for the playoffs. So when you look at career wise, the biggest differential between regular season scoring and playoff scoring, number one is actually Jalen Brunson, which is impressive. But the number two and three guys on that list are Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic. Yeah, that's who the Clippers are facing. They are facing playoff Jamal playoff Jokic, which, by the way, considering how good Nikola Jokic is all the time, that's crazy that he gets that much better in the playoffs. This is a matchup issue for the Clippers. They got a, quote, bad draw. And if they lose in the first round, I would not rush to do anything because this is still a very, very strong team. When Kawhi Leonard is healthy and he's.

[J. Mac]

Healthy right now, by the way, the coach they fired in Denver, Malone, he was the guy that wanted to play Westbrook.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[J. Mac]

The gm. And by the way, he's been validated because Westbrook has been unbelievable in this series. And Malone kept saying, forget the draft picks. I need his energy. Somebody you Know, and I, I'll say it. I have been so critical of Westbrook. I don't know where the three point shooting came from. Like, it looks different. The results are better. Westbrook has had a great series. I mean, he has been a tone setter in the series.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, I agree. Look, I really like Russ. I always think the energy he brings is really important for a team in a locker room and that kind of stuff is underrated. He has a box of chocolates, though. You never know what you're going to get. And he can make great decisions and he can make terrible decisions. So the key is a guy like Michael Malone felt he knew when to deploy Russia, when to withdraw him when Russ was making those bad decisions. And he trusted that process. And obviously the front office did not. We're seeing it right now when you make good decisions about when and how you play Russ. And frankly, when Russ has a hot streak, it goes well. There's times we've seen it not go well with Russell Westbrook and we'll have to see if tonight that's any different because it really can be hot and cold and even within a game you can get this awesome chocolate and then you can get that chocolate that everyone's like, meh, I don't want that.

[J. Mac]

Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, Westbrook, a former Clipper. Yep.

[Rachel Nichols]

Everything. Come on.

[J. Mac]

Yeah. You're gonna, you're gonna get his best effort. Rachel Nichols. Good seeing you, Rachel. Appreciate it.

[Rachel Nichols]

Thanks so much, Colin.

[J. Mac]

Yeah. These games have been. Yeah. The Clipper Nugget series is. It's. It's hard to find on tv, but it's been outstanding. And it's really interesting when you, if you're the Lakers and Rob Pelinka, you have to build around Luka. You're not building around Austin Reaves. I think you have to move Austin Reeves because I think he has value in the league. And I think you're not moving LeBron, obviously. So you have to build around Luca and, and, and Nico Harrison has shown you the most effective way to build around Luca, which is rim protectors in size. And so J.J. redick went the opposite. He goes, we're. We're going to play this big Minnesota team. We're going to go small ball. You can't do that with Luca. And, and, and by the way, it's. I don't think playoffs. I mean, if you go look at Pistons and Knicks, what's decided the games, fourth quarters, like, moments, Clippers, Nuggets, what's decided games, fourth quarters, t. Wolves like Cavs, Heat first quarters, Bucks Pacers first quarters. But like the Lakers T wolf series, go look at the numbers. It's all fourth quarters. Well, that's why it was playing LeBron and Luka. One guy who has cardio issues and another guy who is old playing them in the moment may have felt right because the next game wasn't until Wednesday, but you are now. You're seeing the repercussions. Lakers, LeBron look gassed. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app hey, so we all.

[Colin Cowherd]

Make mistakes, but owning up is the right thing to do. You know a Degree Cool Rush deodorant? Well, last year they changed the formula and it did not go well with their fans. Degree's whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up the effort. And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring back the original formula. One guy even started an online petition and degree listened. They admitted they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush sent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. There's a reason why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people were not happy when it changed. So if you never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself.

[J. Mac]

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[E]

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[J. Mac]

The NBA in the playoffs allows more physicality, so Big Edge Minnesota Having the bigger roster and the deeper roster. That's why I picked Houston over Golden State. And my take was that there's got some. I mean the warriors are small and they're old. The difference is Houston is so bad in the half court offense. Jalen Green's talented. What is he? Whereas with Minnesota, Julius Randall's been great in the half court and ants aunt and then Gobert was wilt last night, so. But it's, it's, you know, it's. JJ Redick said I'm going smaller and in playoff physical basketball. To me it backfired. J. Mac with the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, no, turn on the news.

[J. Mac]

This is the herd line news.

Pains me to do it Colin, but we'll talk a little more about the Wolves beating the Lakers. Now listen, you just mentioned Lakers six and a half point favorites last night. They were, they were favorite in the series. The market just did not understand this upset. Undervalued the Wolves by a lot. And Anthony Edwards did a victory lap, no, literally a victory lap around crypto.com arena after the game.

What'd they say? Lakers in five. And then look when we was up three one, they said Lakers in seven. Throw the hand today. Hey, what is it?

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, the good guy gonna die in this movie. Hey, the good guy gonna die in this movie.

[J. Mac]

Wow.

Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't advise that.

Wow, that's ballsy, man. I respect it from Ant. Hey, talk your trash and everybody doubted you. No, seriously, nobody picked Minnesota. Like zero people picked Minnesota in the meeting.

Vegas was fooled. DraftKings was fooled. I was fooled. A lot of NBA people.

You know what I attribute this to, Colin. So Minnesota at one point was 32, 29. They were a playing team after 60 games.

They were, they were in the more close games than any team in the league this year.

And they finished 17 4. But a lot of that happened during March Madness, which was historically great. And we just missed it. Start a baseball season. We missed it. The Wolves went on a tear. I will add this. Anthony Edwards after the game called LeBron the Goat. He said, we just beat the best player ever.

Your thoughts certainly in the qualification. He means among two people, really. Kareem, Kareem three. Kareem, Michael and LeBron. And then very, very close is Magic Johnson.

It's being not reported, but everybody's doing the, the stat padding and they're like, this is who Ant has beat in his last few playoff series. Jokic last year, Lebron this year, Luka this year. KD last year, Booker Last year. He's got a good body count, right? We got to give him props for that.

Well, well, he, he. I mean, last night.

He was over 11 on threes last night. I don't want to hear about last night. He did nothing.

The T W. Didn't the T Wolves have a stretch on three pointers? I mean they had.

They missed 18 in a row in the second half.

Yeah, I mean, they think about that. The t Wolves missed 18 straight three pointers and didn't play great.

And they still.

And they beat the Lakers at crypto.

This is another stat. I'm just gonna. I mean, it's unfathomable. So Rudy Gobert combined In the first four games had 14 points. Combined he had 27 last night. Combined in the first four games he had 25 rebounds. That's it. He had 24 last night. Just an outlier of a game. Unbelievable stuff from Julius friggin Randle.

I mean, that's the best playoff series of his career. You know what's funny about him? He's one of those guys that if there was no three pointer, I mean analytics turned Tristan Thompson from a valuable piece to can't put him on the floor, right? Like Julius Randle comes into this league and it's morphing into a three point shooting league and you're like, what do we do with him? Because effort, great will defend tough guy, get your boards. But he has worked hard to develop some level of a three pointer because he could have easily just been, hey man, I'm not gonna. I'm just gonna be what I am. So give Julius Randle credit and the staff in Minnesota because he was the classic five years ago we were all like, well, what it do you pay that guy in the playoffs? I need guys who can at least hit a 3. You can't be unguarded. That's why Russell Westbrook's amazing. Westbrook was the guy you're at. Let him shoot threes. This series has been great from three point.

Randall's like a throwback in that 90s era where power forwards like Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley were like just rugged dudes who couldn't really score. Randle would have thrived in that era. The fact that he's added a three, as you said, super impressive. Let's go to the NFL where Kyler Murray is set to become Arizona's longest tenured starting quarterback since they moved to Arizona. Of course, the Cardinals have not won a playoff game with Kyler Murray, but he is putting it out there. He doesn't want to go anywhere. He loves Arizona.

We've only played one playoff game since I got here, which is very frustrating. I'm still more motivated than ever. It's just fuel to the fire going into year seven. Playing in playoffs once, I don't believe that I'm a couch watching football type of guy. The fact that I haven't led us to that. I take a lot of my shoulders to, you know, perform in the moments where, you know, I'm needed the most. If I could play my whole career here, finish it out here, like I'm. Sign me up. Guys like Kobe. Kobe played for one organization his whole career. You know, like, that's. That's something that I admire and that's something I want to do. I actually think they have a good coach. I actually like Arizona staff. And for the record, I thought after Seattle you could argue Arizona was in a short list of the second best draft. I thought they the last two years they've had good drafts.

So they've got a stacked offense.

Right.

They got a great tight end, a great wide receiver, a really good running back.

Yep.

Is the quarterback there. The defense. They went all in on defense. In my opinion, reading that draft, Gannon said, listen, we've got the offense now. We need to get the defense. And if Kyler doesn't deliver this year, I think he's a sneaky quarterback. Colin, who's like one of those. What do we do with. Do we keep paying him? Do we keep him our starter? Or do we kind of start over with a new quarterback? You seem to like Kyler a little more than the market.

Well, I think he. I mean, listen, every quarterback in this league that I like has something that is great. That's that like, that's my knock on TUA size, arm mobility. What's the that.

Well, accuracy with tua, that's a hard one. What's Kyler's greatness? Scrambling.

He incredibly elusive. Like, incredibly elusive. Like Russell Wilson, but in his prime but significantly better.

Yeah. How much longer is that going to hold up in his frame?

That's a fair argument. But Josh Allen, if you go look at all, even though Justin Herbert, who's not winning playoff games, huge arm. Like historically unique. Six, five and a half, 240. Like every. That's why I always say about Brock Purdy, what do you go? Wow. And almost every great like Jalen Hurt, say what you want, the guy squats 650. His strength is not only redeemable, he could be the strongest player in the league. Pound for pound, like, okay, that's something in this league.

All right, final story. Colin. Oh, oh, oh, look. My 2026 NFL mock draft I posted on Fox Sports. And yes, I have Arch Manning at the top, but I know you're gonna hate this because I have so many quarterbacks going in the top 12. So we're going to put on the screen here, so Arch Banning one. Listen, let me see a year out. Just don't yell and freak out. I know you're going to lose your mind. Drew Aller A, whatever. He has not shown it, but the tools and the frame and the body and the measurements, they're there.

Okay. For our radio audience, he's got Nico Iamaliava, number five to Carolina. I actually think Bryce Young's going to be pretty good this year.

Oh, that's possible.

Hold on. I am out a lot. Rams take Garrett Nussmeier, the LSU kid. I. He's, you know, I have to see him again.

You got to read the right. First of all, let me tell you.

Where you're so wrong.

Caleb Downs.

Caleb Downs is going somewhere in the top three. Caleb Downs. If this wasn't a big quarterback year, Caleb Downs could go number one. So I. Credible player, the.

The highest drafted safeties. There's two of them who went fifth overall. I think that's about the ceiling for Downs. Colin. There's going to be too many quarterback needy teams. Look at the Browns, they need a quarterback. The New York Giants, if they fire Dabo, they'll need a quarterback. If the jets are this bad, I don't think they will be. They will need a quarterback. And then you look at Carolina, New Orleans, next year could be a quarterback needy draft at the top, unlike this past year.

Yeah, I think, I think you got too many quarterbacks.

I know. It happens every year. The Clemson guy's a little further down. Go ahead, mock it, laugh. It's fine.

No big deal. I like the effort.

Thanks.

You know how you talked about me being honest about an hour ago?

Yes.

Yes.

Be honest.

You look good in that dress. I like the effort. It's a good. It's, it's quite a. It's quite an effort by you. Okay. All right. J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news.

[Rachel Nichols]

And thanks for stopping by.

[J. Mac]

The herd lie news. Yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's. I've kind of moved off the shoulder Sanders stuff, but I, you know, I was watching a lot of NBA over the last like three weeks, but I, it is really interesting on The Pittsburgh Steelers because the Rams and the Cleveland Browns clearly in the first round said we think the best quarterbacks are next year. I think the Giants think that too. But Brian Dabel and Joe Shane need to win now. And if Russell Wilson putters around, they're going to go with Jackson Dart. So I think some of that, that feels like it's a little bit of it, although I'm sure they would deny that. But you know the Rams and the Browns, they got first round picks. They're going big next year. I don't know how good any of these quarterbacks are, but I. That J. Mac put on there, but it's something to think about. A year ago people had Quinn Ewers in the first round. So I like to get it Clemson now I think Arch Manning potentially will be the best. I think Drew Aller at Penn State's interesting. Not consistent enough for me. I'm not sure he's it yet. But things change. These are, and I said this about Shador Sanders, the hardest thing about personnel in these professional leagues. Women girls mature sooner. In women athletics. You will see eighth graders being offered scholarships. Ninth graders, and it's totally appropriate for young girls. They've matured faster. I mean I can remember years ago, I forget the name of the kid he was offered a quarterback, was offered a scholarship in the eighth grade. I forget his name and don't know where he's at. Like it was fun. I think it was Lane Kiffin offered somebody like in the eighth grade. You have no idea. Quinn Ewers was a first round quarterback last year. He's the last quarterback taken of 13. So I do think like when I think Shedeur was a bit immature, I thought Baker was really immature. I thought Johnny Manziel was insanely immature. But the last time, the first time I met Johnny Manzelic a year ago, he owned it. He wasn't owning it four or five years ago. Johnny owned it. I think Caleb Williams grew up a lot in Chicago with a very loud media, a lot of pressure. I think Caleb Williams has had to kind of grow. Not that he was wildly immature, but I think Chicago, New York, big markets, Boston, you grow up quickly because you get criticized loudly and often. So you just. It's these mock drafts are hard because whereas I think a young 9th grade softball or basketball player, women's, I mean they Knew in the sixth grade was it Paige Beckers for UConn. It was like people were offering her scholarships when she was a little kid. With guys, I think it's harder to identify, especially in football, boys mature more slowly. So, you know, as you're sitting here and you make mock drafts, it's somebody's going to pop and somebody's going to drop. And that's just personnel with young men. That's we, we are frontal lobe, you know, brain scans, whatever it is, we are hard to figure out at 19 years old. Live in Chicago, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up is the right thing to do. You know, a Degree Cool Rush deodorant. Well, last year they changed the formula and it did not go well with their fans. Degree's whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up the effort. And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring back the original formula. One guy even started an online petition. And degree Listen, they admitted they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Ru scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. There's a reason why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people were not happy when it changed. So if you never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG degree. Cool rush for yourself.

[J. Mac]

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[E]

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[J. Mac]

At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The Ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out, not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of Cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified. So I saw a story this morning the Steelers are waiting for Aaron Rodgers Kirk Cousins a possibility. Why now when the Rooney said it sounds like we're getting Aaron is Kirk Cousins a possibility? Aaron said I'll play for 10 million. Mark me down for I'll take Aaron with The Niners for 10 million over Brock Purdy for 56. I suggested a month ago I said if I was Aaron Rodgers I would not sign anywhere before the draft. Watch what teams do. I also said a month ago he's from the Bay Area. He knows Kyle Shanahan system. It's Matt LaFleur system mostly. He doesn't have to show up early and that system is very quarterback friendly. It's following directions, accurately distributing the ball, moving the pocket occasionally. The Shanahan system is built for Aaron Rodgers. So now Aaron is. Nobody knows. A lot of people thought he was going to announce, you know on the McAfee show he was going to Pittsburgh. Nobody knows with Aaron so I'm not going to try to guess he may go to the Steelers. But I'm just saying people I heard Big Ben say, well why is he waiting? I'll ask why are the Steelers now mentioning Kirk Cousins? You're just pretend you're Aaron Rodgers. I can play for Kyle Shanahan. I got Christian McCaffrey behind me. Joanne Jennings, George Kittle temperate weather or go to a tone deaf offensive organization that pays all their defensive players in Pittsburgh. Bruh, it's not close. We already knew he was interested in Minnesota and they don't have Christian McCaffrey in the backfield. So I'm just saying if I'm Aaron and he says I'll play for 10 I'm going to the Niners. Now this is speculation. I don't know anything but Aaron's too smart to make a foolish decision and I don't think Pittsburgh just say it out loud. Tone deaf to offense lost. Their left tackle lost. Najee Harris once again heavy defense draft. Aaron's not solving that thing. You're not solving that thing. Seattle, Arizona. Okay, you have to get through the Rams. Stafford aging just thrown out there. Just, just, just put me down and I don't think Aaron is going to play for 10. I think the Niners are probably offering 18 or something, whatever it is. But everybody keeps. Well, why isn't Aaron signing? Well, maybe Aaron's looking around going, let's see how this Brock Purdy thing goes. I take Aaron for 15 over Brock for 51. I'm just telling you what I'm. For two years, I'd go with it. Okay, so we've talked about this. The NBA would probably be better served if the face of the league was a domestic player. I don't think it's essential. I don't. Right. Right now, it's kind of. They don't have the face of the league. And I think there's only been four or five in my life. I think MJ was Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Steph, LeBron. There's been a half dozen. Wilt was great. I never thought Wilt was the face of the league. Now I'm too. I don't really remember it. I saw him in the 70s. Maybe he was. I think. I think Russell and the Celtics kind of were, but we didn't even know what that meant. Face of the league back in the 60s. It is a thing now because of MJ. But I have said I think Ant and Tatum are now the two best domestic players, and they've both been really good. Tatum more consistently in the postseason. But there is something to be said about wanting to be the face of the league or having the personality for it. Now, Tatum right now is a more consistent, great player than Ant. Ant's great nights are better, but Tatum's more consistent. And Ant did not play particularly well last night, whereas Tatum plays well almost every night, certainly against Orlando. But I want to. This. Just listen to this. This is Ant after the game. Watch.

[Colin Cowherd]

Rudy played phenomenal, man.

[J. Mac]

He played almost 40 minutes tonight, 12 for 15 from the field.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, we can't ask Nothing.

[J. Mac]

He had 24 rebounds. He was a dragon tonight.

Rudy was the dragon.

Yeah, he was a dragon tonight for sure. As the kids say, he got Riz. Maximum Riz. He's got charisma. And then he's. After the game, he's walking outside crypto. Like that's part of it. And I think this is just who he is. I think he's got a personality. I think he's funny sometimes off the court. Not perfect. I think Tatum, to me, feels very buttoned up and very adult, almost crafted. I mean, Duke, Celtics work ethic. And I. And I said this. Tatum is like exactly what you want from a star, which is like. It's almost like Tim Duncan. But Duncan was never the face of the league. He was the big fundamental. Tatum's incredible fundamental player. He didn't have a lot of Riz. And for the record, you thought the only cool word I know is lit. Uncle Colin is always adding lexicon. That's the way it works on the show. I'm always adding things. But there is something to be said about that. He also said this because he didn't play particularly well last night. But again, how many guys give you a great night? I mean, Luca, we're pointing fingers at. Here's Ant talking about his night last night. The thing about watching film is you.

[Colin Cowherd]

Gotta be willing to accept the bad. I think most people, they only want.

[J. Mac]

To watch it when it's good.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I want to watch the games.

[J. Mac]

When I play bad.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like a game tonight.

[J. Mac]

When I play bad. Like what.

[Colin Cowherd]

What could I have done better? And I think that's the perspective that.

[J. Mac]

Helped me change as far as my playmaking and seeing the floor.

[Colin Cowherd]

I want to see what I can do better.

[J. Mac]

Yeah. I also think it's easy to just criticize the Lakers. Minnesota's good, great staff. The domestic face of the league, a tough veteran who was a great matchup. Julius Randle against the Lakers. I mean, Gobert, when he went to Minnesota, didn't they. I mean, how many draft picks did the Jazz get? Like he had value. He was the defensive player of the year. I know everybody. Shaq doesn't love him. But in the end, Gobert is. I mean, it's like Zach Edie. You guys can say all you want about Zach Edie. It's hard to score over Zach Edie. Gobert has value. And against a small Laker team that doubles down and doesn't play. Jackson Hayes, he was ridiculous last night. So I think Face of the League is, you know, kind of a nebulous. Whatever. I don't. I don't think, honestly, we ever talked about Face of the League before Michael Jordan. I don't even think we talked about Magic and Bird being Face of the league. There was discussion that Magic and Bird had saved the league. But I don't think I could be wrong on this. But I don't think Face of the League was a term until Michael Jordan. And a lot of it was because he had a handsome face and a stylish face. And it was like, God, that's what you want the guy to be. And he was so good in commercials. So I don't think it's essential. But I do think. I do think if you look, if you juxtapose ant and Tatum, one guy feels like he's got a more connectivity with young people.

Swag. I know you love that. Let me just ask you something real quick. So SGA is going to win the mvp, but you're out here saying Ant Edwards is the face of the league. Yeah, it's weird. I actually think Ant is a more dangerous player than SGA because I got to respect the threes. I know he was over 11 last night, but when you lead the league in threes, you're unstoppable. Driving to the basket. Like, I think he's an overall better player than sga, don't you?

Well, he's a more dynamic athlete. SGA is funny. He's a combination of like six players. You know, he's got a little Kiki Vandaway. Oh, a little. Well, I mean, again, better. Better than Alex English. But what he is, he's a bucket. And he's got that free throw angle bucket. The way he holds the ball. Never forget this. The Clippers are well run. They let him go like. Like he was a late developer. When he was at Kentucky, he wasn't considered the best prospect. I think it was Kevin Knox. Like nobody. I mean, so he is one of the classic. And this doesn't happen a lot in the NBA. He's a classic late developer. It is an infrequent term in the NBA generally speaking. You know, Kobe at 16, Luke at 14, you kind of. LeBron at 13, you kind of know who the next face. So SGA is a slow developer. Some of it is hard work. He's a bucket. It's coaching. It's a great organization. There's a lot of things at play here.

Not many people are mentioning this. You did touch on Austin Reeves had a brutal series. I mean, he was bad. Okay. You know who guarded him a lot of the time? Anthony Edwards. And I looked at some of the numbers. Austin Reeves during the regular seasons, getting to the foul line 6, 7, 8, 10 times a game. He attempted zero free throws. Colin in the final two games. And Austin Reeves was absolutely gassed. He had nothing left in the tank. He could not go with Anthony Edwards. It was shocking to see how the Lakers kind of just wilted. They got worn down against Ant McDaniels. Randall.

I think, I think Minnesota staff watch JJ Redick play starters for the entire second half. And I think the Minnesota staff said, fellas, they're going to be worn out. We're going to go bigger on them.

Gobert had nine bigger and get more.

Physical and they're going to run out of gas and I think that's what you saw. Lakers I think Minnesota staff deserves a lot of credit.

Chris Finch is the man, no doubt about it. And Rudy Gobert had a podium game. What are you going to do?

Damn it got the Riz. This show's got the ribs, I gotta be honest. Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. The fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back and degree listen, and that doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up after bringing the original Cool Rush scent back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason why it's the number one man's antiperspirant and it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart, Target and try to OG Cool Rush for yourself. Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit Card you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account now with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit Card is pretty much a no brainer. And right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again, go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web bank in order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and trading. Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit Card terms, see Rates and Fees.

[E]

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[J. Mac]

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