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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One NA Member.
- [00:27]
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- [00:58]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country, and when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:28]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:57]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Here we go, hour two. It is a Monday, live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us a part of your day. So interesting. I had. I was in Chicago over the weekend. You know, they're all fired up about the Bears. Jordan Schultz joining us. And a lot of people are asking about Aaron Rodgers, who will be in our right and wrong. And I think Aaron is being very smart and calculated. He's going to wait for the draft and figure out where the dominoes fall. He's not going to do a Kirk Cousins sign with a team and then the team drafts a quarterback. It's like, what's the point? So I think. I actually think Aaron Rodger and I told everybody, I said, my take is the Steelers is fool's gold. He knows that defensive culture. And so I. It's. It's. And here we are waiting for Aaron Rodgers, which, again, it's his last team, so I don't blame him. If it's your last job, your last contract, take your time. Say no to a bunch of people. All right? We do it every Monday. Colin right. Colin wrong. And here we go, where Colin was right. The Joker. Nicola Jokic after Kareem. Second best center I've ever seen. His numbers this year. Third player ever to average a triple double. Totally authentic. He didn't work the stats. He just had his best season ever. 30, 12 and 10. He kept the franchise afloat. I don't know if they have another title, but the truth is, because optics and artistic impression matters in the NBA, that he's not wildly popular because his game sometimes is a little clunky and awkward. But take out Kareem, that's the best center in league history. Where Colin was wrong. I thought the warriors would find themselves with a number two or number three seed, but Jimmy Butler just didn't provide enough offer. Offense. And Kaminga doesn't work. They lost three of their last five. They got eaten alive yesterday in overtime by James Harden and the Clippers. And I gotta. I gotta say, I was wrong on this. I thought they'd end up because of their experience, Butler getting the team to the free throw line and their added toughness. But in the end, they've got limitations and they don't know what the hell to do with Kaminga because he doesn't play well with Draymond or Butler where they're on the floor. So I was wrong on the warriors, where Colin was right. The Suns missed the playoffs. KD makes Another poor decision and Mike Budenholzer gets fired. I appreciated the swing, but let's be completely frank about this. Kevin Durant's won two playoff series in five years since he left the warriors, and he is just too remarkable an NBA player for that to be true. I hated the move away from Golden State. Everybody said he just wants to ball, but he's now just become a really talented bounce around the league guy, which is beneath him. Where Colin was wrong, the Clippers are in the playoffs. I didn't love the Kawhi extension. He's been on fire. I didn't like letting Paul George go. His season was a mess. James Harden I was done with. Boy, was he good yesterday. He played great down the stretch and this team suddenly on fire. Kawhi Leonard is playing. He's great. He's a get a bucket guy and yesterday warriors couldn't stop him. Clippers are now in the playoffs, so I didn't like all their moves. They've got a lot of older guys and sometimes older guys just don't treat the regular season in the NBA with a great deal of urgency. But they got a great coach and played with some of it down the stretch and here we are where Collin was right. I always said Ja Morant's going to be Derrick Rose, a small guy that can't shoot that will force him to score at the rim and he's going to get banged up and have injuries add in immaturity. He's in trouble with the league again for some hand grenade, you know, move which didn't bother me much. But it is what it is and Ja Morant has sort of become what we predicted. Fun to watch, but I'm not going to build my franchise around him as a number one and injury. If you're under six three A John Wall, a Russell Westbrook, a John Moran, a Derrick Rose and you're not a great perimeter shooter. Well, you've got to score at the rim. What does that mean? Collisions. What does that mean? Injuries, the way it always works. Where Colin was wrong, I think Shador Sanders in a bad quarterback draft is good enough to go two or three. But the odds out of Vegas say the Saints with a number nine pick and the Steelers with a number 21 pick. That's where he's going. So now I would agree that he doesn't have a lot of special, he doesn't have a big arm, he's not super mobile. But I do think there's value in the fact that he's accurate, composed, his dad was a pro athlete and he did not have a good old line or a run game at Colorado. So he has had to initiate offense. And let's be honest, when you look at how bad the O line was, the fact that he completed 74% of his throws and he actually played really well in games against really good teams with much better players. So I think he's a little bit better than the NFL people think. But he's moving down according to the odds makers. Where Colin was right. I told you. Aaron Rodgers doesn't buy Pittsburgh. It's fool's goal. Defensive coach, two needy receivers, battle line lost. Najee Harris and here we are. Aaron Rodgers is just waiting it out. I think it's the right move. I believe he wants to go to San Francisco if the Purdy contract doesn't work or Minnesota. I think he's right to want that. I think Aaron's too smart to make an impulsive, dumb decision. And I don't buy Pittsburgh for Aaron Rodgers. I think at his core he's a NFC north or a West coast guy. He's got a beautiful place in Malibu, trains in Thousand Oaks. I don't think he should sign with Pittsburgh. I never thought he would sign with Pittsburgh or at least, at least didn't feel that way. With great conviction and I think he's making the right move.
- [08:30]
Jordan
Where Colin was raw.
- [08:32]
Colin Cowherd
I thought the Dodgers roster, especially the batting order, may be the greatest since the 75 Cincinnati Reds. They're hitting.225. They're third in their division. They lost 16 nothing to the Cubs Saturday. They lost their third straight series. They're not hitting at all. Now. This is a little bit on brand for the Dodgers who tend to pick up steam mid season and beyond. And they did just win the World Series. And there is no real urgency in 162 game schedule. But they're struggling in the bullpen and they are struggling at the plate hitting only.225, which. Which is 18th. Maybe they need more torpedo bats. Whatever it is, the Dodgers aren't playing or hitting particularly well. Colin right? Colin wrong on a Monday. And with that, Albert Breer, Monday morning quarterback joining us live. So I want to touch on the Aaron Rodgers thing and I, I think Aaron's a smart guy and I think when you're gonna sign your last deal in any profession that saying no is powerful and making the right decision. Aaron's not desperate. He's got a lot of money and, and I'll. I said this two weeks ago. You don't want to do a Kirk Cousins where you rush and then your team drafts a quarterback. I kind of like what Aaron's doing. I think he wants to play in Minnesota, actually. What do you make of the drama? Do you think the Steelers are upset? Where do we sit now with Aaron's choice and where are the Steelers?
- [10:05]
Albert Breer
Well, no, I think you're right on, on. On Aaron wanting to play in Minnesota, Colin. And you know, the Vikings have been told as much. And so the Vikings made the decision that they are going to at the give JJ McCarthy the entire spring and see where he's at at the end of that. There's obviously some unknown coming back off the knee injury. He lost four months of development time. They still think very highly of him, but, you know, like, they again are dealing with a bit of an unknown here. And the problem for Aaron now is are you banking on that, Are you banking on a young guy not playing to. Playing to his potential over the course of the next two months? That's not really a plan. Meanwhile, you have the Steelers who, you know, have been patient to this. But do you get to the start of OTAs in May and now you're talking about a team that's really got to get a quarterback in there because that's not a rebuilding group. Like, that's a team with a bunch of win now players like T.J. watt and Minka Fitzpatrick and D.K. metcalf and Cam Heyward and so on and so forth. So the timing of this is a little wonky because the Steelers timetable is completely different than the Vikings timetable. And if he were to walk away for the Steelers and say the Steelers trade for Kirk Cousins at the beginning of May and that option comes off the table. Well, he's not guaranteed that the Vikings option will be there in the middle of June. So it's, it's a little bit of a weird spot to be in. I do think he wants to play. He's given, you know, he's given people. He gave the jets this indication. He's given the Steelers this indication that he does want to play in 2025. I don't think retirement's completely off the table, but, you know, the, the way his options set up right now is, is, is with some wonky timing.
- [11:47]
Colin Cowherd
You know, I, I look at this quarterback class and usually I'm so fired up for the draft. Watch every, like the Masters yesterday. I'll watch it. I'll watch the whole weekend. And I do think Cam Ward is a pretty obvious number one pick. But tell me the momentum of it. You know, as we get to the draft, sometimes you get impulsive owners, impulsive general managers. I could see Cleveland, I said this. Whenever you inherit or get a bad quarterback deal like a Russell Wilson in Denver or Deshaun Watson, the way out of it is draft a quarterback and hit on him and, or trade down and just accumulate a bunch of picks and hit on them so you have cheap labor for four to five years. I could see Cleveland just literally trading down, getting 12 draft picks and saying our only way out of this, we'll get Kyle McCord in the second round. We got to get cheap. I mean Cleveland to me is the team I can see taking a huge trade down swing. Your thoughts on that. Is there a team that that scenario works for?
- [12:55]
Albert Breer
So here's the problem, like, and I think this is sort of a logistical issue when it comes to trading around in the top of the first round of this draft is you have two guys that are seen as far above the rest of the class when you're talking about non quarterbacks and Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter after that, I mean there are 12, 15 players that a lot of teams see as virtually the same. And all of those guys might have been the 15, 16, 17th pick in last year's draft. So if you're Cleveland, you're looking at it and you're saying, well if we trade down to say five or six or seven, that's the equivalent of trading down to 15 or 20 last year. Well then you're going to want us that sort of value coming back. And if you're going to pay that premium for a non quarterback, like do you view Travis Hunter or Abdul Carter worth that to come up for? So I just think the legit, the logistics of the way the class sets up is going to make it difficult to move around in the top of the first round. I don't think Cleveland's going to take a quarterback second overall. My guess would be right now Travis Hunter. If not, I, I'm almost certain it would be Abdul Carter and then they'll double back in the quarterback position in the second or third round. I think they'd be open to the idea of moving back, but I think it would take a lot for another team to come up from even the bottom of the top 10. And you know, if that team's looking at coming up for Carter or Hunter, I don't know if they would pay a quarterback premium to come up.
- [14:23]
Colin Cowherd
And so Nico Iamaliava, quarterback at Tennessee, says, hey, that guy at Duke that just transferred from tulane. He's making 4 million. I want 4 million to play for Tennessee. And so now they'll probably be a bidding war, whether he's worth it or not. Tennessee drives $149 million in revenue last year. There's about six programs, Ohio State's one of them. Tennessee, Georgia, they just drive massive numbers. Texas football. And I listen, I blame the ncaa, not the kid. The reason that UFC has grown and boxing has largely died is, let's be honest, it's the people at the top, it's Dana White, and no governing body that you could depend on in boxing. And so I think this is on the ncaa. They've been playing catch up with the nil. There's not enough guardrails and guidelines and rules. I don't blame the kid. But when you talk to people about this and he manned up a Buckeye, who knows? I mean, he's going to have a market. Would this, does this hurt him in the eyes of the NFL?
- [15:23]
Albert Breer
I would say yes. And it's not like any sort of death nail, but I think from a developmental standpoint, you know, you do question what this is going to look like. He's already through spring practice, so he's going to be jumping on a moving train with another team. He was a good, not great player at Tennessee last year. He's got talent. Yes, but, but like, does that mean he's going to be a fifth or sixth round pick or a fifth or sixth pick in the draft? I think a lot of that is still to be determined because he is so young and he doesn't have a lot of experience. Then of course there's the bigger picture question here, which is if you, if this guy gets to a point three years into his career, four years into his career where he's not happy with his contract, how quickly does he start making noise about that? Because this isn't the first time we've heard about this sort of stuff from Nico. It actually happened the first time when he was in high school. How are you going to manage the people around him? Those would be questions for any player. And those questions are asked at a higher level when you're talking about the guy who's supposed to be the tone setter for your entire organization at quarterback. So, yeah, I mean, I think this does affect the way that the NFL will look at Nico. Obviously, a lot's going to ride on, on however he plays at UCLA or wherever else he winds up. And a big part of it is because he is a quarterback and because quarterbacks are held to a higher standard. So I think. I think there's a whole set of new questions that NFL teams would have for Nico that they didn't have a week ago. Now, you know, that said, the good news is he still has 1, 2, 3 more seasons to clean all that up. He'll have a full draft process to take care of it whenever he comes out, you know, but certainly it just feels to me like the murder. The waters have gotten a little bit more murky on what this kid would be as an NFL prospect.
- [17:14]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I'll be honest, I watched a lot of Tennessee football games. I like him. I think he's super talented. I think he. I think, you know, like, he's like. It's like watching a young NBA prospect where you're like, he doesn't have his jumper down, but boy, there's a lot there. Well, he's.
- [17:27]
Albert Breer
Here's a good example. Colin.
- [17:28]
Colin Cowherd
Colin.
- [17:29]
Albert Breer
This is what Cam Ward was last year. Like, there were a lot of these things going on with Cam Ward with his transfer from Washington State to Miami last year. And there were a lot of people around him and a lot of questions with that. Right. He played so well, it didn't matter. Like, if he had come out last year, he probably would have been a fifth or sixth round pick. You saw the flashes of what he wound up becoming at Miami, but they were few and far between. He got around better teammates and a better program, and all of a sudden he became way more consistent with what he was doing. And now that NFL teams have had the chance to sit down with him and talk with him, they become more comfortable with him. Obviously, the Titans are pretty comfortable with where they're at, potentially taking him first overall. So you can come out of this and look great, but it takes handling the situation the way Cam Moore did. And whether or not Nico can do that remains to be seen.
- [18:18]
Colin Cowherd
By the way, the. Of all the movement and, you know, social media has created some cryptic posts and their TJ Watt had a little bit of one. And I don't think this is crazy to say this. I have suggested this is that I think the Kansas City and Rams model is kind of the way to do it, which is pay for your offense, draft your defense. You can pay for a great pass rusher, a Miles Garrett or maybe a TJ Watt or a Chris Jones. But mostly keep your defense young and twitchy. That side of the ball gets hurt more. Keep them young and athletic, Pay for your quarterback, left tackle, star receiver, center. You know, Bears doing this by the way they paid some money for offense and I think it will pay dividends.
- [19:06]
Albert Breer
The Steelers, Cincinnati.
- [19:08]
Colin Cowherd
Cincinnati. Like that's the way to me is. The way to do it is let just draft defense. When you see the little cryptic TJ Watt social media post, generally that stuff has legs. I'm sorry, but there is a smoke fire thing. The Watts family isn't going to just make stuff up to tweak their employer. What did you make of that?
- [19:31]
Albert Breer
Well, one thing I've learned is to never not pay attention to this stuff. Right? Because, I mean, these guys are. These guys are so cognizant of it. I mean, at this point, most of the guys in the NFL grew up with it, right? Like grew up with social media in a way that, that you and I didn't, Colin. And so they're very savvy and have an understanding that everything they say and do is going to have a reaction, especially somebody who's been in the NFL for as long as T.J. watt has. So I think you'd be dumb not to look at this and think that this isn't some kind of message that he's trying to send to the Steelers. That said, when you flip over open your calendar book, what does it say? It says April. Right. Like, so they've still got a lot of time to work this out. Obviously, I think it's. It's like a little bit of a window into where the Steelers are, and I think it's part of why Aaron Rodgers does match up well with the rest of the makeup of the roster and much better than he did with the Giants. And you and I have talked about this before. The Giants were basically asking Aaron Rodgers to do what the jets asked him to do, which was lift a group of young players up and take a group of young players to the next level. Whereas with the Steelers, you've got a bunch of players who are as close to peers as you're going to get for Aaron Rodgers in the NFL. And guys like Watt and Fitzpatrick and Hayward and Metcalf, guys who are on their third contracts are in their 30s. And again, like, this is sort of a window into where the Steelers are, the way the Watts situation is playing out, where, you know, you've got a lot of guys that are in the last bite of the apple or are looking to win right now. And so, you know, the Steelers obviously have a lot to work through here. I'd assume the T. DJ Watt thing gets taken care of in time. This is an early warning shot that things might not be in a great place, but they've got a lot of time to work that out. And I think getting some clarity at the quarterback position will probably help Watt get a little bit more comfortable with signing up for some more in Pittsburgh as well.
- [21:27]
Colin Cowherd
All right, Albert Brer and a Monday. Appreciate you stopping by, my man.
- [21:31]
Albert Breer
All right, thanks, Colin.
- [21:32]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, the. I think the Tennessee kid's really talented. I just think the reality is he's got some leverage. And again, when you're at these Ohio states in Tennessee and the school makes 150 million, the coach is got coordinators making a million and a half on the defensive side, and he's like, I'm the quarterback. Duke's got a guy from Tulane making four. I think he's a really talented kid. He's. Again, he's young. He's just. It's. I mean, very few NBA prospects come into the league as great shooters, great athletes and great shooters. Very few guys come into the NFL refined like they've got talent. But, you know, it's just, it's. It's. I mean, go look at Brady's growth or Joe Montana's growth or it's just the reality of it. When I watch Nico play, I'm like, that kid. I mean, he sees the field. We. When we show. Even those tapes, we show he can see the whole field. He's got a nice arm, he's got a good touch. He was just against good team. This defense. Tennessee was sort of led by its coaching and its defense, not its offense. But that's because he's a kid. But if you watch him play, he moves well, got great size, you know, he's got a whip of an arm. He's just really inconsistent. But. But again, this was a team that was built on defense, so. But this idea that, oh, he doesn't deserve it. Well, what does deserve mean? What does that mean, deserve it? I mean, I'm in front of the camera, what do I deserve? What do my producers deserve? I don't even know what that. I don't know what earn or deserve mean. He's a quarterback who led his team to the playoff in an unbelievable football conference as a kid with very, you know, little big game college experience. And he was inconsistent when I watched him, but would you be shocked if he came back and lit it up and did a cam ward and next year we're talking about this kid at another program. If he went to an Ohio State or, you know, wherever he goes, and all of a sudden you look up and you're. I mean, if Kyle McCord can leave Ohio State and lead NCAA football and passing yards, this kid can play. You can say what you want. You don't have to love the timing and you don't have to love his dad's advice. I totally get that. But until the ncaa, you know, bargains this out and figures it out and puts in rules and guidelines, you're going to see more of this stuff. Don't blame the kid. What's the saying? Don't, hey, don't hate the player, hate the game. Or, you know, whatever.
- [23:47]
Jordan
The player hate the game.
- [23:48]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. So the game by the NCAA is an inept leadership group that has been playing catch up with the transfer portal in the nil. And remember 10 years ago, one of the biggest debates in sports was, is Pete Rose, should he ever get into the hall of Fame and should you pay college football players? Those were the two.
- [24:07]
Jordan
Yes and yes.
- [24:08]
Colin Cowherd
Yes. And I mean, when I was doing this 15 years ago, if it was a slow day that got the phones going. So The NCAA had 15 years to figure this out, then California passes legislation, then here comes the avalanche, and the NCAA has been playing catch up ever since. So you can tell me who he. You don't have to love his timing, but I'd rather him do this in April than August. I mean, it's Tennessee. They'll go spend two and a half million on somebody. And I don't blame Tennessee for moving off the kid, but I saw a lot. Well, the kid's overrated. The kid's really talented. I mean, Arch Manning could go number one right now. I don't even know if Arch Manning's good. I mean, he backed up Quinn Ewers, who I think's average. So, I mean, who knows who's good? They're all kids.
- [24:50]
Jordan
It's not the player, it's not the program. It's the system.
- [24:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [24:53]
Jordan
That is broken and really will be broken until they have a healthy CBA like the NFL.
- [24:59]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Tennessee is. Is the Southern Ohio State. State. They'll figure it out. It's a football program with a lot of drama and a lot of cash and a lot of capital. They'll figure it out. But, you know, I just saw a lot of people crushing the kid and his dad. Well, of course, kid listens to his dad. And this is the, you know, this.
- [25:17]
Jordan
Is the new era.
- [25:18]
Colin Cowherd
If I, for instance, what if I worked in a world where I didn't have a contract with Fox and I was just. I saw the other guy sign for that. I'm not showing up for tomorrow's show. I don't think I would do that. But a system. This is why the NFL's got everything collectively bargained.
- [25:37]
Jordan
Yes.
- [25:37]
Colin Cowherd
So you have all these guardrails. College sports, I mean, it really is.
- [25:42]
Jordan
The first official holdout in college history. And for it to happen at a signature program with a signature quarterback who was a blue chipper. That's why we're talking about it.
- [25:53]
Colin Cowherd
Remember, Remember Rick Pacino, Tom Izzo and John Calipari when they lost in the tournament?
- [25:58]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [25:59]
Colin Cowherd
They were literally asked. Well, the portal opened today. Calipari didn't even know. He started laughing. He's like, izzo didn't care and Calipari didn't know. And Rick Patino was infuriated. So it's like, you got to get this stuff right before we just blame coaches and players. The system. I mean, you see countries collapse. It's not because of the people. It's because of usually a lousy government inefficiency upstairs. That's. That's why the Cleveland Browns aren't the Eagles. You can blame the coaches and the players, blame the owner. Why are the Rams so well run in Arizona's not. I mean, I love McVeigh, but if you put McVeigh in Arizona, he wouldn't be Sean McVeigh. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show. Just search Ko Vino and Rich wherever you get your podcast and of course course on social media. That's Covino and Rich.
- [27:47]
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- [28:18]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country.
- [28:20]
Colin Cowherd
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [28:23]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [28:24]
Colin Cowherd
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [28:27]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [28:35]
Albert Breer
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [28:37]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [28:42]
Albert Breer
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [28:43]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [28:45]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for having me.
- [28:46]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [28:50]
Albert Breer
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [28:52]
Colin Cowherd
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [28:54]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [29:03]
Jordan
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [29:11]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:17]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agencies. Agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight.
- [29:49]
Colin Cowherd
Is that I thought it was.
- [29:50]
Greg Rosenthal
Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back.
- [29:56]
Colin Cowherd
Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. And that's what we are doing on Fighting Words. We're not going to let anyone silence us.
- [30:13]
Albert Breer
That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George. That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history or queer history, any history that challenges the.
- [30:21]
Colin Cowherd
Whitewashed norm or put us in a box. Black people have never ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So apparently there was just an earthquake just north of San Diego. I didn't feel it. But in, in California, you got these.
- [30:52]
Jordan
I felt it.
- [30:53]
Colin Cowherd
You did?
- [30:54]
Jordan
I did, yeah.
- [30:55]
Colin Cowherd
Was it during the show?
- [30:56]
Jordan
It was during the interview. And I looked at you and you were locked in. And I thought either he feels it and he's not gonna acknowledge it or he's. He just does it. I'll tell you what though, we were just discussing, it was a little bit of a roll action which to me felt unsafe. But I was just told by our man here that it's actually more safe to be where we are right now.
- [31:14]
Colin Cowherd
Well, the building we are currently in rolls. So the way. I mean, that's what you want. It's kind of earthquake proof. This was like a 5.2, which is a pretty substantial earthquake. But I, my, I was so fixated on draft talk with Albert Brear as the world was shaking. Yeah, I didn't.
- [31:33]
Jordan
You were moving, by the way. Your mic was moving, but you weren't. You were. You were locked in. Impressive.
- [31:40]
Colin Cowherd
That's so weird. Jordan with the news.
- [31:44]
Jordan
No, no, no, no.
- [31:46]
Colin Cowherd
Turn on the news.
- [31:47]
Jordan
This is the Herd line news. All right, Colin. The Cowboys start their offseason work today and edge Micah Parsons still hasn't been extended. Dak Prescott was asked about Micah's contract and joke with the media saying that he doesn't have the full answer. Why Cowboys negotiations take so long, adding that all of his contracts would have been done a lot sooner if he did. Now, Colin, I thought Jerry had a very telling quote at the recent owners meetings. He said, quote, I don't know why, I just can't deal with a player. Also basically said he doesn't know who David Mulaguetta is. Parsons his agent. This is why Colin, the Cowboys have not been relevant since the 1990s. This is not Emmett Smith. You don't talk and deal with the player like you did three decades ago.
- [32:32]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [32:33]
Jordan
The agent has been empowered in a way that is significantly different than the 1990s with Aikman and Emmett and Irvin. And as a result of that, in my opinion, Jerry style, still thinking, archaically, that the right way to handle a Micah Parsons extension is basically to get Micah to acquiesce one on one. That's exactly the problem that we're dealing with.
- [32:55]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's. We're reaching a really interesting time. Like I. How do you rebuild in the NFL? So let's say I, I run the Cowboys and I look at the lion draw. So the Rams roster, the Eagles roster just in the nfc, and I go, I'm not really there. And then I look at Jaden Daniels and I think, oh, I don't have that either. So to me, one of the ways you get good very quickly in this league is hitting on multiple inexpensive draft picks. And I like Micah Parsons a lot. I think he's a really good player. He's not T.J. watt. I don't think he's Aiden Hutchison. I don't think he's Myles Garrett. I don't think he's Max Crosby sometimes. No, I don't.
- [33:40]
Jordan
Okay, so you feel like he's a great player or a very good player, but he's not in the elite.
- [33:44]
Colin Cowherd
I am willing to pay a great player, great money. CD Lamb, Pam, like a one. I would not pay Dak the money. And although I like Micah and there's probably a team out there that really needs an edge rusher. He plays a position of need for many teams. How can Dallas, I mean, they're giving away draft picks. Mingo, Trey, Lance. They're giving away draft picks. How in the world do you not consider getting in this draft? Especially Micah would be the number one pick arguably in this draft. Go get a, go get a second first round pick. You could get a first and a third and maybe a fifth for Micah Parsons. I would do it today.
- [34:26]
Jordan
See, I think Micah Parsons, you mentioned CD and Dak. I think he's the young face of the franchise. He's cool. He, he, he just gets it from the media standpoint. Plus you have the production on the field. I think pay the guy. Take care of your own. How many, how many great pass rushers can you really get it's very hard. And I, I think he is elite.
- [34:48]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I think every team in this league has one.
- [34:51]
Jordan
No, not every team has a, has a truly elite pass rusher. Even if you don't think he, he's Garrett or Bosa, he's still a top seven or eight guy. He's a true difference maker, I think.
- [35:05]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, maybe I'm overstated. I feel like every good team in this league has a pass.
- [35:10]
Jordan
Every most really good teams have a great pass rusher, but I don't. Is Dallas, is Dallas a playoff team this year?
- [35:17]
Colin Cowherd
No, and I don't think they're particularly close. Coaching is 30 to 40% of the equation in this league.
- [35:23]
Jordan
You're not a price shot.
- [35:24]
Colin Cowherd
And I reville there's an argument he's a bottom three coach.
- [35:27]
Jordan
Oh, sure, sure, sure.
- [35:28]
Colin Cowherd
Head coach.
- [35:28]
Jordan
Yeah. Stay in the NFC. The Bears were pretty much a disaster by Week 6. Caleb Williams Rookie year was rough. As a result, he sat with Esquire magazine and said, quote, he was so beat up mentally, physically and spiritually that there were times he would go home and drop a few tears. What do you think it.
- [35:55]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think it's really frustrating. And I think the greatest gift any young quarterback can get is their guru. And I think Jaden Daniels got it with Cliff Kingsberry. Cliff Kingsberry, we reported it first on this show, pounded the table two months out, said, draft this kid. I know this style. I think Ben Johnson is going to save kids. Caleb's career. That sounds dramatic to say save his career, but if you go back to last year, the O line got worse. The running game dried up. His inconsistency was magnified week to week. I, I think if he had, if Eber Fluss wouldn't have been let go or they picked a wrong coach, a defensive coach, you were looking at a wasted career. I think he's going to be really special and I think it's like anybody in any job. I don't care if you're a young lawyer, a young quarterback, or, you know, a city council member having a mentor.
- [36:53]
Jordan
Sure.
- [36:53]
Colin Cowherd
Or a guiding light. Chicago's not a city that gets offense.
- [36:57]
Jordan
Right and certainly not quarterbacks. I'll tell you. You mentioned Ben Johnson. He will take Caleb to the next level and elevate him and maximize him in a way that Waldron never would have. Ibroflu certainly never would have. The issue that Chicago has had. It wasn't just the coaching, it was the offensive line. Last year they couldn't quite figure out how to get Caleb consistent. He lost 10 games last year. That's more than he lost at OU and SC combined.
- [37:26]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [37:27]
Jordan
This is a guy who's very young, very talented, and has been for the first year of his NFL career without a real plan. You bring in Ben Johnson, who got Jared Goff, and turn him into one of the, I would say, best six or seven quarterbacks in football.
- [37:43]
Colin Cowherd
Right?
- [37:43]
Jordan
He's going to take Caleb Williams to the next level.
- [37:46]
Colin Cowherd
I don't.
- [37:46]
Jordan
My question would be, does it happen right away? What. How long does it take? Considering that they do have some pretty.
- [37:52]
Colin Cowherd
Good weapons, I don't think it might. I said this with J. Mac before the vacation. We'll know by October 1st if he can play this. I. Have you looked at Jared Goff, second week under McVay. We thought he was a bust. You go, I mean, just go. When you get the coach, right? Brock Purdy, second time he started, you're like, oh, yeah, that works. That's good enough to be a franchise quarterback. Joe Burrow, second start, I. I don't think it takes long. I mean, Jaden Daniels, he got better as the season progressed, but, like, the second or third start, we were all like, dude, he's accurate.
- [38:25]
Jordan
Dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury, that's compared to Matty Refluz and Shane Waldron. That's the difference. Okay. We talked a lot about Rory McIlroy. He's the Masters winner, but he's the first one to have four double bogeys over four rounds. Rory had some up and down moments yesterday. Birdied the first playoff hold to complete his career Grand Islam. He's the sixth golfer to reach that feat. Listen to Bryson DeChambeau talk about how locked in Rory was during the final round.
- [38:56]
Colin Cowherd
Did you speak to him in there?
- [38:58]
Greg Rosenthal
How's he doing?
- [38:58]
Colin Cowherd
Do you know?
- [38:59]
Albert Breer
No idea. Didn't talk to me once all day.
- [39:01]
Jordan
But he was just like, ah, just being focused, I guess. I thought a couple things stood out. One, you mentioned how the gallery or whatever. What do they call it, the Masters? Yeah. They will tell you. They told us that Rory was the guy. Now, whether or not he was gonna win, we didn't know. But the fact that he basically chokes away 18, goes to a playoff and then wins it, I think adds to his legacy. So he gets the career Grand Slam, he gets the green jacket. Well, but in the manner in which he did it.
- [39:32]
Colin Cowherd
Well, yeah, I think it's interesting. I was talking about this this morning with the team, and I said, put yourself in Rory's shoes. Yeah, so you're. You're coupled with Bryson DeChambeau, who's this big, alpha, kind of cocky guy who's much more likable today than three years ago, but he is.
- [39:50]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [39:51]
Colin Cowherd
And Bryson, he came out gladiator style, getting high fives. And also, Rory is a fast player, faster player. DeChambeau is not Sergio, but he's a slower player. So it's one of these things where I could see Rory saying, you know, this guy's cocky. This guy can be a bit obnoxious. If you look at his history, history with Brooks Koepka. I'm not going to engage this guy. I'm going to be respectful, shake his hand, and then I'm dealing. I'm going to deal with myself and my emotions. I've struggled here. I can see Rory saying, I'm not going to let him get in my head. And maybe by me ignoring him, maybe that gets in his head because you can watch DeChambeau. DeChambeau unraveled yesterday. Could I make the argument that DeChambeau can't. Came into Sunday thinking, I'm gonna get in Rory's head a little bit.
- [40:46]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [40:46]
Colin Cowherd
And by the fourth to fifth hole, Rory ignoring him, maybe got into Bryson's head a little bit because his game unraveled.
- [40:54]
Albert Breer
Yeah.
- [40:55]
Colin Cowherd
The only thing that saved him the first three days was he was great on the greens. Those greens were fast. They're always fast at Augusta. But it. It. He unraveled and Rory buckled but didn't unravel. So I'm gonna defend Rory on. Listen, if you, You. You're a lawyer, it's the biggest case of your career, and you go into the final day of it, closing arguments, and you know the opposing attorney is trying to get in your head. The rule of thumb is ignore. Pay attention to your case. Don't get caught up in that stuff. So Rory came in. It's like, bro, fist bump, handshake. I'm in my own world here.
- [41:36]
Jordan
Yeah. Two quick takeaways. Justin Rose, super classy. He's now lost. He's now been the runner up three times, has lost two playoffs. Really classy by him. And then also Colin, we both have daughters. What I heard from Roy yesterday, basically telling his daughter, never give up on your dreams. That was an emotional moment for me, and I thought it was really cool that he showed the vulnerability as an athlete after this great moment to the world in front of his daughter. That was pretty cool.
- [42:01]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Remember, also, Augusta doesn't have. There's no cell phones out there.
- [42:05]
Jordan
No, it's old school.
- [42:06]
Colin Cowherd
It's old school. And because of that, the patrons are so engaged. So the truth is, between the difficulty of the course, the pressurized environment of Augusta on Sunday, the patrons are more engaged. I could see Rory being like, I'm soaking this up. Yeah, like I'm always going to defend Alleged in his biggest moment ever, doubling on his concentration.
- [42:32]
Jordan
And he did it finally. Colin Teddaroa McMillan, out of Arizona, has been mocked in the first round by many draft analysts. I reported earlier this morning that the former Wildcat has visited the Patriots, Chargers, Seahawks, Browns, Raiders, Panthers, Cowboys and Saints, and he has three more lined up now. In talking to multiple teams, I can tell you that McMillan, or as the kids call him, T. Mac, the other T. Mac, he has drawn comparisons to T. Higgins, to Mike Evans, 64 ran 44845.
- [43:05]
Colin Cowherd
The T. Higgins stuff feels right.
- [43:08]
Jordan
The only question mark for him to me is, is he going to be great? I think the floor is. He's really good. Some of these teams really jumped out to me, specifically the Chargers and Cowboys. Imagine him teed up with CD Lamb.
- [43:22]
Colin Cowherd
I will tell you this. Seattle likes him a lot. I'll just leave it at that. Seattle likes him a lot.
- [43:30]
Jordan
So could T. Mac be the essentially replacement to DK Metcalf? Pair him up with jsn.
- [43:36]
Colin Cowherd
If I had to make a prediction on my draft, he goes to the Seahawks.
- [43:41]
Jordan
Okay, I like it.
- [43:44]
Colin Cowherd
Jordan with a noose. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd lie news. It's shaking. Little quaking back in la. It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.
- [43:59]
T-Mobile Advertiser
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- [44:30]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country.
- [44:32]
Colin Cowherd
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [44:35]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [44:36]
Colin Cowherd
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [44:39]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices. Not from the extremes, but from the vast Middle into the national conversation.
- [44:47]
Albert Breer
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [44:49]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [44:54]
Albert Breer
Thanks for having me.
- [44:55]
Jeremy Hobson
Jeremy, Neil, Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [44:57]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for having me.
- [44:58]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [45:03]
Albert Breer
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [45:04]
Colin Cowherd
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [45:06]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [45:15]
Jordan
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [45:23]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:29]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight.
- [46:01]
Colin Cowherd
Is that what I thought it was?
- [46:03]
Greg Rosenthal
Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I put the hammer back.
- [46:08]
Colin Cowherd
Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a bestselling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. And that's what we are doing on Fighting Words. We're not going to let anyone silence us.
- [46:25]
Albert Breer
That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George. That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history, queer history, any history that challenges the whitewashed.
- [46:33]
Colin Cowherd
Norm or put us in a box. Black people have never, ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [46:59]
Jordan
This Easter, the UFL takes over spring's biggest weekend with the Fox Football Extravaganza. First Friday at 8 Eastern Memphis takes on Michigan. Then Saturday at 7, Birmingham battles Houston. Sunday at 5, it's San Antonio versus D.C. it's all this weekend on Fox.
- [47:16]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, it's funny, Bryson DeChambeau, somebody that I thought was super obnoxious when he came into the sport where he would brag about 17 egg omelets and 13 slices of bacon and 12 power shakes. He's got his own YouTube stuff now. He's very popular. Made a lot of money on Live and the Masters. Obviously they weren't, they weren't showing much of him for the first couple of days. Then they were for. In the final round. You know, they've got to show him he's coupled with Rory McElroy. But, you know, you can't expect folks, you can't expect guys to be best friends. They're all trying to get the same. Remember, Rory is a tour guy and Bryson is a live guy, so right there. And Rory's been an outspoken tour advocate like Tiger Woods. You can't expect these guys to be buddies. They're not going to be. Who cares? Michael Jordan didn't love the Pistons or Larry Bird. Get over it. This idea that everybody's got to be friends. Like, I don't like that about the NBA. I like when there used to be like this tribal support system in Detroit and then with the Lakers and then with the Bulls and then with the Celtics. So you got the, the live thing is disconnecting people. Also, you know, Brooks Koepka, he was worn out by Bryson dechambell. Like, he was just like eye rolling stage. I think Bryson's done a good job to rehab his image, but he's still, he's got a little pro wrestler and that too. And Rory's like, I, I got no, I, I want, you know, Rory's also European and there, I mean, he's a little more stoic, a little more laid back, a little more chill. I mean, if you ask Rory what matters to him, it could be the Ryder Cup. I mean, these, these are very proud men who are great. And the American guy, he's got a.
- [48:55]
Jordan
Lot of Alpha Gilmore to him.
- [48:57]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And so the idea that they're just going to be buddies, it's like, I. No, I mean, just European men and American men are different. Yeah, they're just different. It's just a different kind of vibe.
- [49:10]
Jordan
Rory even said that one of his big things left to do is win another road Ryder Cup. Yeah, that's. That matters to him.
- [49:17]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, it matters to European golfers a lot. Not that it doesn't matter here, but it's a big, you know, Americans, the big target. This is where outside the British Open, this is where the tournaments are. And you know, just like basketball players, you can play in Europe or Croatia, but you want to make the association, you want to play here. So I kind of like the fact that in the gallery without the phones is so engaged in Augusta that you're that's kind of your partner. I mean you're really connecting with fans like no other tournament on the planet. I I just thought it was four hours. Five hours of perfect TV Hour 33.
- [49:55]
T-Mobile Advertiser
Next T mobile stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel, because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to 800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com backslash keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device, credit service port in 90 plus days device in eligible carrier and timely redemption Required card has no cash access and expires and month.
- [50:25]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [50:55]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're gonna be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [51:25]
Colin Cowherd
The championship is back in the bay for the first time in 40 years. On the new limited podcast series Dub Dynasty, we hear from head coach Steve Kerr on how Steph Curry almost never even joined the Warriors.
- [51:39]
Albert Breer
In fact, I thought we had a draft aid game deal to end up.
- [51:42]
Jordan
Getting him to Phoenix for the entire.
- [51:45]
Colin Cowherd
Behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run. Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.