Hour 2 - Rob Manfred

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 2 Featuring Rob Manfred

Release Date: March 26, 2025
Episode: Hour 2 – Rob Manfred
Host: Colin Cowherd
Published by: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Introduction

In the second hour of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," host Colin Cowherd welcomes Rob Manfred, the Commissioner of Major League Baseball (MLB), for an insightful and in-depth discussion about the current state and future of baseball. As Manfred enters his third term, the conversation delves into the significant changes he has implemented, their impacts on the game, and the challenges of balancing tradition with modernization.

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Modernizing Baseball: Embracing Change

Colin Cowherd begins by highlighting the unique position of a baseball commissioner dealing with a sport steeped in tradition and revered by purists. He notes, “Baseball’s the only sport where the commissioner has to deal with purists” (02:48). This sets the stage for discussing the various rule changes Manfred has championed.

Rob Manfred explains the rationale behind these changes, emphasizing the need to enhance the entertainment value and pace of the game. He states, "Our history and tradition is, you know, great. It's good for the sport. It's part of our popularity, but it does make change more difficult" (08:33). To address this, MLB has introduced several modifications:

• Pitch Clock: Designed to speed up the game by reducing downtime between pitches.
• Universal Designated Hitter (DH): Eliminates the need for a pitcher to bat, allowing for more strategic gameplay.
• Larger Bases and Ghost Runners: Aimed at increasing base-stealing opportunities and overall game excitement.

Manfred shares an anecdote about the pitch clock's success: “The first-year ratings went up 10%. So did attendance. And then last year it was the best year in postseason baseball in a long time” (05:30).

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Impact of Rule Changes on Game Dynamics

The introduction of these rules has had a palpable effect on both the pace and appeal of baseball. Cowherd observes, “It's a living, breathing thing” when referring to the strike zone, highlighting how dynamic and adaptable the game has become. Manfred concurs, noting that the rules are continuously evolving to align with fan expectations and enhance the viewing experience.

Notable Quote:
Manfred: “The umpire gets the call in his ear almost immediately. So, you know, we are cognizant of doing something that would slow the game down after we've worked so hard to speed it up” (17:11).

This balance aims to retain the sport's traditional aspects while making it more accessible and engaging to a modern audience.

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Shohei Ohtani’s Transition and Its Ripple Effects

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Shohei Ohtani’s move from the Angels to the Dodgers. Cowherd remarks on the unexpected surge in popularity and commercial success following the trade, stating, “The shift from the Angels to the Dodgers has really been explosive” (09:11).

Rob Manfred expresses his surprise and delight at Ohtani’s impact: “The level of interest and excitement there, Colin, just absolutely unbelievable” (09:44). This move not only bolsters the Dodgers’ appeal but also elevates baseball’s international presence, particularly in Japan.

The discussion underscores how star players can profoundly influence a team’s dynamics, fan engagement, and even the league’s overall popularity.

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Competitive Imbalance and Parity in MLB

Colin raises concerns about the perception of competitive imbalance, especially between large-market teams like the Yankees and Dodgers versus smaller-market franchises. He asks Manfred if these imbalances necessitate interventions to maintain parity.

Cowherd: “There is a perception of, you know, competitive imbalance... it's much tougher for our smaller market teams to compete” (10:24).

Manfred acknowledges this challenge but remains cautious about implementing measures like a salary cap. He explains, “We're two years away from the end of the basic agreement. We're just not in a position where we are talking about or have made decisions about what's ahead in the next round of bargaining” (14:13). While MLB does not currently have a salary cap, discussions around resource disparities continue, with Manfred emphasizing the league’s focus on incremental rule changes over significant financial restructuring.

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Replay Technology and Game Flow

The introduction of replay technology, specifically the automated ball-strike system, sparks a debate between Cowherd and Manfred. Cowherd expresses skepticism about the system’s potential to slow down the game, stating, “I think the minute you introduce replay, it gets extended” (15:08).

However, Manfred defends the system’s efficiency: “The system adjusts to the differences that you're talking about... it is a very fast system” (16:13). He assures that replay technology is designed to enhance accuracy without compromising the game’s pace, aligning with MLB’s broader objectives to streamline gameplay.

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The Golden At-Bat Proposal

Colin introduces the concept of the “golden at-bat,” a proposed rule allowing star players an additional at-bat in critical game moments to boost entertainment. He emphasizes his preference for maximizing star players' visibility: “I just go get a hit. Go make a play. Math doesn't make great television” (18:04).

Manfred responds cautiously, highlighting the complexities of implementing such a rule. He notes, “If there's ever going to be serious conversation about the golden at bat rule, it's going to have to start with experimentation at the minor league level, probably years of experimentation” (19:23). Manfred underscores the need for thorough testing to evaluate the rule’s impact on game integrity and player dynamics before any major adoption.

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Final Remarks and Future Outlook

As the conversation wraps up, Manfred expresses optimism about the ongoing evolution of baseball. He congratulates Cowherd on the league’s improved state, noting, “It's going to be great” (21:06). The discussion concludes with mutual acknowledgment of the strides MLB has made under Manfred’s leadership in making the sport more appealing to a broader audience while respecting its rich traditions.

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Conclusion

The hour-long interview between Colin Cowherd and Rob Manfred provides a comprehensive look into the strategic changes reshaping Major League Baseball. Manfred’s commitment to modernizing the game, enhancing fan engagement, and navigating the delicate balance between tradition and innovation is evident throughout their discussion. The insights shared illuminate the complexities of managing one of America’s most beloved sports in an ever-evolving entertainment landscape.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd: “Baseball’s the only sport where the commissioner has to deal with purists” (02:48).

• Rob Manfred: “Our history and tradition is, you know, great. It's good for the sport. It's part of our popularity, but it does make change more difficult” (08:33).

• Colin Cowherd: “I told a story years ago... the first-year ratings went up 10%. So did attendance” (05:30).

• Rob Manfred: “The umpire gets the call in his ear almost immediately. So, you know, we are cognizant of doing something that would slow the game down after we've worked so hard to speed it up” (17:11).

• Colin Cowherd: “Math doesn't make great television” (18:04).

• Rob Manfred: “Look, I think that one of the big motivations for the set of rule changes that we did two years ago was we felt that analytics had changed the game in a way that was not positive in terms of the entertainment value of the sport” (18:48).

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the conversation between Colin Cowherd and Rob Manfred, highlighting key discussions on MLB's modernization efforts, the impact of star players, competitive balance, and the future direction of baseball.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Unknown Speaker]

Now let's get this party started.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio Here we go, hour two. Rob Manfred, baseball's commissioner, is going to show up here in a couple of minutes. Been the commissioner now for was about a decade. You know, it's interesting. They have had. Baseball's the only sport where the commissioner has to deal with purists. I've said this before as a talk radio host. If you're going to bring on like somebody to Talk Baseball for 30 minutes, you will mention the past a lot. I mean there may be a cult and Frank Robinson and a Mickey Mantle, the great Yankee teams brought up. Nobody talks football and brings up Red Grange or Vince Lombardi. Nobody talks NBA much and brings up, you know, Bill Walton and the Blazers. It's just different. Baseball, you know, baseball cards, we collected them. It's got. There's been more great books written about baseball's past than football and basketball's past. And so it's steeped in lore and tradition. And because of that, when you are a commissioner of baseball, you deal with something no other commissioner deals with, which is the purists. And so Rob Manfred's made. I was looking at today, I was thinking about the changes. Got rid of the defensive shift, universal dh, the pitch clock, larger bases, ghost runners, like that. He has made a lot of changes. And here's the thing, arguably they've all worked and some of them stupendously overnight, like the pitch clock they put. I told a story years ago. I was sitting, I was flying back from the east coast to the west coast and I was sitting next to the general manager of I think it was the Richmond minor league team. Nice guy. We started talking baseball and I used to work for a minor league baseball team and we were talking about the pitch clock. They were using it in the minor leagues. And I said, how do you think it'll play? You know, these baseball, big league guys can get stubborn. He said, not only he goes, it's shaving 20 minutes off minor league baseball. He goes, the GM said, I think it'll shave 30 minutes off major league baseball. You know, you got better pitchers, you know, more strikes, game will move faster. And it has it. And I. The first year ratings went up 10%. So did attendance. And then last year it was the best year in postseason baseball in a long time. And sometimes leagues are also very lucky. The NBA got very lucky that Jimmy Butler ended up with the warriors and Luka went to the Lakers because they were in a 10 year slide in the ratings. And that's really helped. But what has helped baseball is Ohtani going to the Dodgers from the Angels, Bryce Harper, Phillies, the big story. And actually Luis Soto staying in New York, but going to the Mets actually now makes him a polarizing player. Yankee Juan Soto. Excuse me. So a lot of things have worked. The Cubs just had a big off season acquisition. So there's a lot of things working for baseball that have not worked in previous years. It's fast, it's international. Ohtani is the biggest star in la. The second biggest star is Aaron Judge, he's in New York. And the third biggest star is Bryce Harper and he is in Philadelphia. If these guys were playing in Kansas City and Pittsburgh and Seattle, it wouldn't feel the same. So sometimes you just get lucky as a commissioner and lucky as a league. But a lot of what baseball's done, and I've said the last two years, I just watch more games, is they have instituted progressive measures to make it better and it's working. And it. There was always a saying years ago that the NBA will think of it first, baseball will make the most money on it and football will get it right in terms of changes and. But baseball, which has always been flush with cash, has gotten it right and they've tried. That's the advantage of the minor league system, right? Basketball, NBA doesn't own. There's no ownership. They don't have any leverage with college basketball. And NFL can't tell college football what to do. But baseball's got more influence with minor league baseball. So they can test stuff out at the single, double or triple A level and see if it works or see if it doesn't work. Enlarge the bases pitch clock. And now the one thing I'll push back on, they're thinking of, you know, the ball and strike count replay on that. I don't know if I love that. Everybody on the staff thinks it's quick, it works. I'll tell you about replay. I like it, but I think the minute you get replay, it gets extended. It's like when you introduce technology to society, it's not going backwards. If you introduce something, we'll. We'll monetize it as a society, we'll capitalize on it, and it'll never go backwards. And so I think sometimes with technology and sports, once you introduce replay to a sport, it'll just get expanded. And I've always had a theory about the NFL when it comes to instant replay. You get two looks. That's it. No, third, it shuts down. If you can't tell if the refs got it right after two looks, it's over. We're not going to go micro film at the library on nine looks. I'm not doing that with that. Rob Manfred comes in, currently in his third term as the Major League Baseball commissioner. And his sport now is rolling. It is humming, baby. The Dodgers, the Yankees, the Mets, the Padres. You know, years ago, I had you on and we talked about some of the concerns with baseball. All these years later, you have solved many of the riddles. But I just said being a baseball commissioner is different because there's been so many great books on baseball and the history is much richer than the NFL or the NBA. We talk about Sandy Koufax and Mantle. You do deal with baseball purists. And Goodell doesn't. He doesn't deal with a lot of football purists. Has it made these moves sometimes a little more difficult to make that you kind of have a battle with all of them?

[Rob Manfred]

Look, our history and tradition is, you know, great. It's good for the sport. It's part of our popularity, but it does make change more difficult. I think the key for us has been to listen to our fans, our current fans, and make changes that's consonant, you know, consistent with what they're saying about the game.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Are you surprised, Angels to the Dodgers? Are you surprised by the global impact and the merchandising impact and the ratings impact immediately with Shohei Ohtani?

[Rob Manfred]

Yeah, I must admit, I was a little surprised. I mean, he's been a great player since he entered the league, but the shift from the Angels to the Dodgers has really been explosive. I mean, he had a great, great year last year that added to it. And I think the fact that the Dodgers won was really important, but it has exploded. I was just in Japan for the opener. The level of interest and excitement there, Colin, just absolutely unbelievable.

[Colin Cowherd]

I said this. I pushed back. Yesterday, Jeff Passon had a comment. He was on a podcast and he said, listen, the sports humming, don't screw with it. He got a lot of people saying, oh, we can't compete. And I laugh because the brewers and the Guardians and Kansas City and Cleveland made the playoffs. And those are not high payroll teams. There is this narrative. The minute the Yankees and Dodgers make the World Series, everybody goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. This is way too much. And my take is you guys haven't had a repeat champion in forever. But you do have to fight that a little, do you not that, oh, here comes the Dodger Yankee money machine. You have to battle that, don't you? Yeah.

[Rob Manfred]

There's no question, Colin, that There is a perception of, you know, competitive imbalance, if you'll let me use that phrase, that it's much tougher for our smaller market teams to compete. The disparity of resources available to the clubs is very significant and, you know, fans feel it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it is. It's obviously not hurting that much because you've had so many. I mean, the Royals won a recent World Series. The Rangers, the Nationals won a recent World Series. The NBA has made changes through the years. They want to keep their stars in markets. They don't want them bouncing around. And I push back to Adam Silver. I said Adam, he was on the show a month ago. I said, trades are great. I get excited. I wanted to see Ohtani with a new. I wanted to see Freddie Freeman with a new team. What is your take as a commissioner on player movement? Even if they go to a stacked roster? Does it bother you if you get sort of an all star team in la? No.

[Rob Manfred]

Look, I mean, I think it's important for every team, you know, consistent with their resources to go out there and try to put the best team they possibly can on the field for the benefit of their fans. You know, obviously in terms of building a fan base, there's an advantage to continuity of players being in a market. You know, fans get attached to a particular player. That's one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is an off season where players move around via trade or free agency. Creates a lot of excitement and can create hope in a market where it didn't exist before.

[Colin Cowherd]

So people talk about parody and I say baseball's fine with parity. Here's the lack of parity that I see, pitcher to hitter is that the speed of pitches has gone up 2 miles an hour over 15 years. There are more 6 foot 6 guys throwing 99 miles an hour. And it's just the. I can remember, I tell the story all the time. When I was a kid, fell in love with baseball in the 70s, if you threw 94,5 miles an hour, you were a flamethrower. Nolan Ryan was like a Martian 100. Everybody's throwing 98 now. The sport historically has moved the mound up and down. The Bob Gibson era. Should that be another change that, hey, the batters, even though you have more base runners, they're more stolen bases. The batters sometimes do feel, Rob overwhelmed. Would you consider a slight movement of the mound?

[Rob Manfred]

Look, I think that the dominance of our pitching, and, you know, nothing against great pitchers, we do have very, very dominant pitching right now. It's A combination of bigger, better athletes throwing harder, frankly, moving pitchers in and out of the game more frequently. And it is a trend that we pay a lot of attention to because balls in play, base hits are kind of the core of the action that's so important to fans.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, people, the hues and the cries of a salary cap make their way to the Internet now. You have a very strong players union. So good, good luck with a salary cap in baseball. But if, if it got to a point where with deferred payments, the big markets, the guardians didn't make it and Detroit didn't make it and Milwaukee did and you got over the next five years, you felt like, wow, commissioner, it's a little out of balance. Salary cap, is it even realistic in baseball?

[Rob Manfred]

Well, let me say a couple things. You know, you mentioned Detroit and Cleveland. They did a great job last year. I think that it's important for our smaller markets to do something more than qualified for the playoffs.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Rob Manfred]

There's a difference between getting into to the first round and going deeper in the playoffs. So, you know, the fact that they got there doesn't really resolve the issue in my mind. Look, about salary caps, I'd say this. You know, there are five major North American sports, counting soccer, four of them have a cap. We don't. We do hear a lot about it from fans, particularly in smaller markets. But the reality is we're two years away from the end of the basic agreement. We're just not in a position where we are talking about or have made decisions about what's ahead in the next round of bargaining. I think that a lot of water is going to go over the dam before we need to deal with that issue.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I have been in favor of all the changes, especially the pitch clock and the defensive shift. I wanted more base runners, I wanted more doubles landing. I wanted more stolen bases. And it's all transpired. I will push back. So my theory on all replay is the minute you introduce it into any sport, it grows and it slows the game down. And I think your game now is faster, more succinct, and I think it's a better sport to watch. So you guys are doing something where you can challenge a couple of times a game, you can challenge strike calls. Here's my pushback, because I'm for changes. The strike zone is a living, breathing thing. The strike zone for Aaron Judge is big. For Ohtani, it's big. For Altuve, it's small. For Mike Trout, it's small. So it's kind of a Live and breath. It's not like the first down marker, right? Like, here's what you got to get it moves. Is there an argument that you've done so much to speed the game up that if you put it in, it's going to create length and time and restraints and listen, the human factor's fine. We've made it this far with for real umpires.

[Rob Manfred]

Look, let's start with your last thought. All the conversation about the automated ball strike system should not obscure the fact that our umpires do a phenomenal job calling balls and strikes. I would say this. The system adjusts to the differences that you're talking about. In terms of size, the strike zone that it calls is different for Aaron Judge than it is for Jose Altube. And in terms of time, you know, during the spring training experiment, and this is one of the reasons we do experiments, challenges, add, you know, slightly more than 10 seconds to the game time. So it is a very fast system. The umpire gets the call in his ear almost immediately. So, you know, we are cognizant of doing something that would slow the game down after we've worked so hard to.

[Colin Cowherd]

Speed it up, you know. Finally, commissioner Rob Manfred joining us for our radio audience is that I always say that I appreciate analytics. Moneyball is my all time favorite movie. I love Moneyball. Miracle on Ice with Herb Brooks is my second favorite. But Moneyball, I just watched Moneyball a month ago. I love it and I love analytics. But I prefer Manhlytics, where you use analytics. But in the big games, I want Aaron Judge at the plater. Shohei, I just go get a hit. Go make a play. Math doesn't make great television. How do you weigh that? When you think of things that analytics make us smarter. But I push back on Adam Silver. I said, you guys are shooting too many threes. It's really repetitive, sometimes hard to watch. How do you weigh in on analytics and TV and all those components?

[Rob Manfred]

Yeah, look, I think that one of the big motivations for the set of rule changes that we did two years ago was we felt that analytics had changed the game in a way that was not positive in terms of the entertainment value of the sport. And I think it's incumbent upon the commissioner's office, our commissioner's office, to think about what's happening as a result of the application of analytics to the sport and be smart enough to come up with rule changes that prevent the analytics from robbing fans of the entertainment that's so important in sport.

[Colin Cowherd]

I gotta ask you one more thing. The golden at bat. I love the idea. Again, I know the purists are not going to like it. I like it because to me, it gets a rock star in a big spot to the plate. And by the way, if I know a manager can bring up Bryce Harper again and he's the bottom of a lineup, I'm going to watch television. I'm not going to go, okay, seven, eight, nine hitters, it's over. I get Bryce Harper or Ohtani or Aaron Judge. That one's going to be a hard push. Commissioner, that's not going to be easy. Do you believe. How long will that fight be? And will you experiment with it?

[Rob Manfred]

Look, I answered a question in an interview about something that. An idea that had been thrown out in an owner's meeting that, you know, had not gotten a lot of attention. The answer I gave was about the golden at bat rule. I think people have jumped to the conclusion that, you know, somehow that rule changes right around the corner. If there's ever going to be serious conversation about the golden at bat rule, it's going to have to start with experimentation at the minor league level, probably years of experimentation, because it is one of those rules. While it has the positives that you have identified, there are complications that would flow from this rule in terms of the play of the game. Things like, you know, I use the golden at bat to put Rob Manfred up. He makes an out, and then it's his natural place in the lineup that's next. Do we really want that happening? Right. The player that you want to put at the plate is on base. You know, how does that substitution take place? You got to think through all those things, and there are a lot of complications with it. I think the best thing to say about the golden at bat rule is you've got it right. It's a long way away, if ever, from being even considered.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, whether it's the games in Tokyo, the field of dreams, the Rick Wood Field, all this stuff, there are more events ever than baseball. I thought the London games, Phillies, Mets was great. It got me to a television. And at some point, that's the name of the game that's driving 30% of revenue is the TV Rev. So, Commissioner, I appreciate you stopping by the sports in a great place and congratulations on making moves that needed to be made.

[Rob Manfred]

Thank you, Colin. And, you know, stay tuned for Bristol this year. It's going to be great.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. Thank you, Bob. Man. Yeah. So the. The golden at bat is the reason I like it and the reason I didn't like the defensive shift was, I want stars on the TV more if I get Bryce Harper in a big spot. If you go later innings and it's like 6, 7, 8 hitters, it kind of deflates it. Like, unless you're a die hard fan. If I know I can use another great batter, it's like, okay, because that's what you always look up when you're down a run late. Where are we in the order? Well, if I can move the order once a game, that's the difference. Like that's a real thing. Because most teams outside of the Dodgers get to the 6 hitter and you got no stick. You know, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's guys that can move their fielders, but they can't hit. Dodgers are a, you know, a little bit of an outlier there. All right. Commissioner Rob Manfred. Yeah, I am for replay, but boy, I think sometimes in the NFL college football can be brutal.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, guys March Madness can be brutal when they slow it down. The final minute takes like 17 minutes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Wears me out. And I also think the thing about replay is so much of sports is momentum. You know, the Michael Jordan against the Blazers. If you have a five minute break, Michael's not hot like you are punishing players who have found their zone. Basketball players or football players. For instance, I'm banged up. I could use four minutes, an offensive lineman for a break. It is an advantage to a team trailing. It's an advantage to a road team where the crowd's going nuts and there's a four minute replay and the crowd now settles down instead of taking a timeout. It is an unnatural timeout.

[Unknown Speaker]

I mean, you want to get it right, obviously, but there's so many replays. The players are bigger, faster, stronger than ever. Like, so much stuff is bang, bang. Like it's really tough. There's no right answer.

[Colin Cowherd]

And when people complain about I, I am not somebody that bangs on officials. But whenever a basketball fan says, we're not getting to the line, I say, how many threes did you shoot? If you shoot 43 threes, you're not initiating contact. By the way, before Jimmy Butler, the Warriors didn't get to the free throw line because they relied on pods and Steph to shoot threes. Live in LA, it's the herd. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. You know, buying a home used to be a huge headache. You had to go to different places for listings, pre approval financing. It was exhausting and confusing. But now Rocket is putting everything you need in one place. Rocket.com a single seamless home ownership platform to help you find, buy, sell, finance, even refinance your home. You'll find smarter tools, personalized dashboards, real time insights and more. All the things you need to make the kind of informed decisions that can make a big difference for you and your family. So whether you're buying your first home, managing home ownership tasks or unlocking equity for future opportunities, there's only one destination that has everything you need all under one roof. Every home at one address. Rocket.com the new home for all things home ownership. Whether you're buying or refinancing, you have to just give a look because it's all there. Rocket Own the Dream with amex, there's.

[Unknown Speaker]

Always a new experience to explore, from curating the perfect vacation and chilling in the Centurion Lounge before you get there trying out that new trendy restaurant. Thanks to Priority Notify with global dining access by Resy and getting straight to the action at the big game. With card member entrances at select venues with AMEX Platinum you can experience it all. That's the powerful backyard of American Express. Terms apply. Access to the card member entrance not limited to the American Express Platinum card. Learn more@american express.com with AmEx you can.

[Colin Cowherd]

Count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. This podcast is brought to you by Pfizer. If you're 50 or older, getting sick can keep you away from where you need to be. You don't want surprises like pneumococcal pneumonia or invasive pneumococcal disease. You're 6.4 times more likely to get pneumococcal pneumonia compared with adults 18 to 49. It's recommended that people 50 or older get vaccinated. Being sick could get between you and the people who rely on you, so schedule your [e-mail] I think J Mac is going to have one of my favorite stories here One of my favorite rants with one of my favorite coaches, Tom Izzo. So let's not waste any time. J. Mac with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Unknown Speaker]

Let's bust right into it. Your boy Tom Izzo went off on the transfer portal, which opened Monday. The Sweet 16 is this weekend. Here's Izzo. Not happy about it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't run players off if you don't have spots. Why are you doing that? So I can get somebody better. I can get a better girlfriend because the one I got isn't good enough. Kids gotta do what they gotta do, and they're really not doing what they gotta do. They're doing what their parents or their agents are telling them to do because they still gotta go to practice, go in the same locker room unless they leave the team. And I think that's insane. I think it's disgusting. But. But, you know, that's my own personal opinion. Well, what he's basically saying is, you're opening up the portal before the season's over and I'm in the tournament. Calipari talked about this. I got a team. I'm not gonna spend one minute recruiting guys for my team. If you want to go to another program, that program may not be playing right now, and we're still alive. I. I totally agree with Calipari and Izzo. This is one of the tweaks they need to have for the transfer portal. At least, like, wait till next weekend or the following week, right?

[Unknown Speaker]

The Final Four weekend makes some sense, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

There's only 14, but it's always like, listen, man, I'm. I. He. He said on this. He goes, I'm not even sleeping, like, right now. Everything I have is about these players and giving them the greatest experience of their lives. Most will not play in the NBA. I'm not gonna get on the phone and worry about some guy in Waukegan who wants to transfer from a Division 2 program. I'm just not gonna do it.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's. There's. Obviously college basketball has some flaws, and. And they're going to be worked out. But, yeah, let's move on to the NBA. Colin. Knicks. My Knicks, with a nice win last night over your Mavs. Carl Anthony Townsend. Josh Hart made history being the first Knicks teammates to record triple doubles in the same game. Now, this happened 17 times in NBA history. Cat had 26, 12, and 11. Josh Hart, just a stat sheet stuffer. 16, 12, and 11. And our staff put together some notable occurrences of teammates with triple doubles. Russell Westbrook on this list several times. LeBron, obviously, let me throw some.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm going to throw something at you. So there is a. Giannis is a better player than Kat, no question.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Giannis right now, is he a better player than Kevin Durant? And before you answer that, so what the Knicks need is more threes and more offense. If you went and gave up Cat. Cat is a more diverse offensive player than Giannis. He's better at the line, he can shoot a jumper, he's got a mid range, he's got a three. Giannis is a better athlete and a better player and a much better defender. But the idea that because we've been thinking for years, Giannis with Brunson, it doesn't solve the three issue. And so my take is Durant to the Knicks keeping Cat. And because Durant's a decent defender. Decent. That to me makes more sense. Giannis doesn't have a jumper. So you're still highly dependent from the perimeter on Mikhail Bridges and Jalen Brunson. So it's interesting. Now, I do think there are teams, Boston, where Giannis is perfect, they don't need. I mean, they'll have, you know, they'll, they'll keep Tatum if they traded Jaden. Jalen Brown and Derrick White and, and Jrue Holliday can hit a jumper and Pritchard can hit a jumper. But it's interesting when you look at the Knicks, how do you, how do you solve it? I think Durant's perfect.

[Unknown Speaker]

He is.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's a late in the shot clock, catch and shoot three artists.

[Unknown Speaker]

So we like Towns, obviously, as an offensive player. He will get picked on in the playoffs to the point that they make tibs of probably going to put him on the bench.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

In some pivotal spots. And you'll be like, what are we doing? He can't guard anybody. Luka will literally pick point. Give me Cat, bring him over here. I mean, obviously Lakers can't play the Knicks, but you know what I'm saying, the great teams will just go right at it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Giannis doesn't really solve their issue. He, you know, I mean, he'll make them better defensively at the rim. But the Knicks have a scoring issue. They can't keep up with Cleveland, Boston or OKC or probably the Lakers. That's why they're losing these games. It's not effort, it's if they get worked on the defensive end and they need another score. And to me, Durant to the Knicks and also you don't have to give him A five, seven. You know, your deal can be with Durant. He's, you know, he's the kind of guy that would probably negotiate something that, you know, he's always looking for an exit as well.

[Unknown Speaker]

He is, yeah. Kevin Durant. Final story. Colin, is interesting NFL theory here. So the Giants signed Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston, but there are reports New York could still draft a quarterback. Russell Wilson's contract has ten and a half million guaranteed. Jamis's is only four million guaranteed. So Jamus's cap hit would not be that significant if a guy they like go ahead and toss your Syracuse boy out here early. Second round, hey, let's go grab comma cord. Then you've got four quarterbacks in the room. Russ, Jamus, who's the guy they like at the. The third stringer, DeVito. Right. And then this quarter, quarterback McCord. You can move off Jameis. $4 million is not that significant. Right. So we're not going to rule out the Giants drafting a quarterback. Right. Even though the quarterback room is crowded currently.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, it's really interesting to me. Why not. Why did Russell sign? Why not do an Aaron Rodgers and wait? Why do you sign before the draft, 59 quarterbacks played last year. Isn't there a better if I. I'm just thinking, what would I do if I was Russell or Aaron? Why are you signing with a team that's bad? Already has Jameis Winston and may draft a quarterback.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, $10.5 million guaranteed is not bad. He has made $250 million. Where's he getting. Listen, that life, he lives that lifestyle. I'm sure you see the idea of him and his wife like, you know, they're on private jets all the time. I think you got to take what you can get. And maybe the Giants loved him. Remember, he was their first interview before last year. He ended up going to Pittsburgh.

[Colin Cowherd]

If you have 100 million in the bank and he's got more than that on the interest alone, you're living on 4 or 5 million bucks a year.

[Unknown Speaker]

There, you know, but sometimes you need to see the love. And he hasn't gotten a lot of love lately. Seahawks kicked him to the curb, Broncos did. So the Steelers are like, you're our guy.

[Rob Manfred]

Boom.

[Unknown Speaker]

And now the Giants are like, hey, bro, you could start for us. He's taking that in a heartbeat. I don't. Is there another.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll go back.

[Unknown Speaker]

Am I missing one?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I just like, I'm Kirk Cousins. Probably should have waited till after the draft for Atlanta. Aaron Rodgers. What If Pittsburgh drafts Jackson Dart, nobody's going to want to watch old Aaron Rodgers.

[Unknown Speaker]

They're going to want to beat out Dart though, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well let me just tell you the most popular guy for an average football team is the backup quarterback. Nobody. If Jackson Dart plays in the preseason and starts throwing because Jackson can sling it, all of a sudden Aaron's not showing up to camp and he's kind of aloof and he's not a pitcher guy a real quick two game losing streak against Burrow and Lamar. People are going to want to see Jackson Dart.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's Kirk Cousins in Atlanta where they drafted Pet. That's right and Cousins the second he started screwing up well, we got panics.

[Colin Cowherd]

On the bench so my take, I'm Aaron, just think about you. I'm Aaron Rodgers. Why I want to. I mean at this point Aaron wants to control. Aaron's got minimum net worth250 now he's lived in New York and LA so the taxes have eaten a lot of it and he's got agents but let's say it's 250 million bucks. He's got real estate. He's got a. Doesn't he have a hedge fund? He's got it owns the. But he's fine. Don't you want control? You sign with Pittsburgh, they could draft Jackson because that roster, it does not have a lot of needs. They need a running back in the mid rounds, a left tackle somewhere. They're going to draft the quarterback so that the Steelers are drafting a quarterback.

[Unknown Speaker]

Lends more credence to Rogers in San Francisco the longer this Brock pie thing drags out.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah guys, last year 59 quarterbacks played the year before 66. What, what is the hurry to sign with the Steelers or Giants?

[Unknown Speaker]

Rogers to San Fran does make sense. I wonder. The Brock Purdy holdup we, we keep hearing Nuggets. Oh, he's going to get 60, he's going to get 50 maybe he's not going to get 45 and, and there's no deal. Then what is Rogers the hold up there?

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm Aaron Rogers and I have his net worth. I am sitting in my Malibu house reading Greek mythology or Roman mythology and I am sitting there thinking why am I gonna go to a team that three weeks later drafts Jalen Milroe and Jackson Dart and if I struggle by Thanksgiving they're benching me. I mean Kirk Cousins post surgery. I mean when you watched Aaron last year, he doesn't move like he used to. He is a pocket guy. Well what is Pittsburgh struggled to Define over the last seven years. A good offensive, competent O line. So I, I just, I'm just. It's almost protective. I would not sign with Pittsburgh. I don't get it. It's one of those things that sounds bigger than it is.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Steelers brand is still strong.

[Colin Cowherd]

Very big. Top five brand in the lids sound big. It. It doesn't work. It's a weird fit, especially for an old quarterback that doesn't want to get hit.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is it like IBM with technology? Still a big brand name, you know.

[Colin Cowherd]

But it's not a Silicon Valley company.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, no. It's way down. Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. Apparently the odds have changed for the NFL draft. Hmm. I'm telling you, man, these people that aren't gonna draft Shador Sanders. Good luck with that. 74% completion percentage in college. Running for your life. I don't know. That's pretty good. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe Noanrich, wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social, that's Covino and Rich. You know, buying a home used to be a huge headache. You had to go to different places for listings, pre approval financing. It was exhausting and confusing. But now Rocket is putting everything you need in one place. Rocket.com A single seamless home ownership platform to help you find, buy, sell, finance, even refinance your home. You'll find smarter tools, personalized dashboards, real time insights and more. All the things you need to make the kind of informed decisions that can make a big difference for you and your family. So whether you're buying your first home, managing home ownership tasks or unlocking equity for future opportunities, there's only one destination that has everything you need all under one roof. Every home at one address. Rocket.com the new home for all things home ownership. Whether you're buying or refinancing, you have to just give a look because it's all there. Rock it, Own the dream.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's the last game of the season and with amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] with Amex, you can count.

[Colin Cowherd]

On T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required Card has no cash access and expires in six months. This podcast is brought to you by Pfizer. If you're 50 or older, getting sick can keep you away from where you need to be. You don't want surprises like pneumococcal pneumonia or invasive pneumococcal disease. You're 6.4 times more likely to get pneumococcal pneumonia compared with adults 18 to 49. It's recommended that people 50 or older get vaccinated. Being sick could get between you and the people who rely on you. So schedule Your [e-mail] is back with.

[Unknown Speaker]

The UFL kickoff weekend starting Friday as St. Louis takes on Houston at 8pm Eastern. Then Saturday it's San Antonio versus Arlington at 4 Eastern, all on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

We were just talking during the break. I took all chalk during the tournament So I got 15 to 16 teams left. I just don't have St. John's the best national championship for ratings to me would be Duke against Michigan State, so you'd get the biggest brand and the most popular basketball conference. I don't buy into the madness is out of March Madness. And the transfer portal has hurt mid majors. So what? We don't watch mid majors. Nobody's watching the Missouri Valley Conference. TV is 30 to 50% of revenue for these sports. That's where a majority of people watch it. If TB is feeding you, if they're. If they're paying for the wedding, they get a say in the seating chart and they, they like. That's why defended North Carolina getting in. That's, you know, if we're not talking a top five seed, if we're talking at the bottom of the barrel. All right, it's a coin flip. West Virginia, North Carolina. I'd put in North Carolina. It's a bigger brand. It's not like West Virginia had 28 wins and had a gauntlet and they flew through it. You know, you put yourself in a position to be argued over. Put Carolina in, and they won their playing game. So Nick Wright talked about this yesterday, about all these upsets that everybody says they love, but the ratings are truth serum. And once you get upsets, the ratings go down. Do you want an amazing, exciting first weekend and then a not so great second weekend or a chalky first weekend and then what should be an unreal second weekend? And that's what I feel we got. I understand that it's fun when there is a 15 seed or a 14 seed that makes some noise, but you kind of want that noise to crescendo with a great Round 2 loss rather than them getting whacked in the Sweet 16 by a great team. Think about it this way. A movie. There has never been a great movie with a bad ending, ever. There have been average movies that you think are great because of a great ending. Usual suspects. Great ending. Great ending is a good movie. There's been good movies. Castaways with a goofy ending. And nobody talks about castaways. We talk about usual suspects. Having all these upsets early is a great movie with a lousy ending. This movie is gonna be. It's okay. It takes a while to get into it. Like a Netflix show. You know, you're every Netflix show. First episode and a half is building characters and then all of a sudden, by the middle of the second episode, wow. Then third, fourth, fifth, great. That's what this tournament is. It takes a while to get going. We don't have a lot of upsets, but middle and end is gonna be fantastic. It's gonna be Michigan State, Dukes, Arizona's, Tennessee, Auburn, more NBA guys. It's better. So this idea that you Want to start? Oh, I just love the upsets. Ratings indicate you don't. You love. It's like in the moment. Oh my God. Do you. I can't believe what I just. I've said for years, the best thing that can happen is Duke wins in overtime or Duke wins by one. You want Duke winning, but you want him threatened. You want the up the 11 point underdog to literally take them to overtime. That's great. But then I get Duke in the next. I don't get McNeese State in the next game. You don't want that. The numbers are absolutely inarguably clear. And there's nothing against mid majors. But mid majors don't win March Madness now. They're not going to win a second or third game, which they don't very often anyway, as we all know. So this idea that mid majors are done. No, they're not. They were never winning four games in this tournament with regularity anyway. You'd get one team every other year that would make a nice run sometimes Elite Eight, most of the time not. So what if I've said this about the nil? Ohio State goes out and says, we got three weaknesses. Let's go buy a corner from Alabama, a right tackle from Missouri. It makes the bigger brand stronger. The problem what you get in college football. Like think about Harbot Michigan. So when he got to Michigan, they didn't have the transfer portal. It took him like six years to get Michigan to be like, they could compete with anybody. It took Brian Kelly like six years. Those are great coaches. Six years to like, okay, we can go toe to toe with Georgia now you go to a big brand. Year two, you can compete. I mean, Lincoln Riley won 11 games first year at USC. That's not what you couldn't be. Pete Carroll's first year at USC, they were six and six. Got beaten a bowl game in Vegas. It took you years. Even if you're a great coach to build. I like sports. When you can the big brands and they make mistakes like everybody to hire the wrong coach. They lose kids, they have injuries. When the big brands can get back to speed faster, like right now, LSU feels broken. They go out nil and they buy a quarterback out of high school, huge money. They won't be broken, you know. So Michigan, by the way, last year, oh, we're not very good. They don't have a huge rebuild. Now they go out and get the number one quarterback in the country. They go buy him for like 5 million bucks. That's, that's Better for my eyes. That's better for television.

[Unknown Speaker]

So I need to ask a little personal here, but you. You remember when your kids were in school? There was back to school night, right? Back to school night lines up with the Duke game on Thursday night. My wife can't do it, Colin. I. I could go and watch the game on my phone and act like a lunatic like I normally do, or just blow it off. What's the call?

[Colin Cowherd]

I've.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know, I'm loaded up on Duke in the tournament, so I can't miss the game, obviously. What's the move?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, my, my. I try to always make my wife happy, so that's usually the move. I. I don't want to create resentment in that dynamic. So whatever mom wants usually wins.

[Unknown Speaker]

So I don't ask for much.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, Fubo.

[Unknown Speaker]

I know I can watch it, but I'm not going to be listening to teachers. I don't want anybody talking to me while I'm watching Duke. If they're in a close game late, you know, I'm going to be sweating bullets. Like, this is. This is big. And there's. Listen, the tournament is only a few weeks, Colin.

That's it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I know.

[Unknown Speaker]

We can't reschedule back to school night for like a Monday.

[Colin Cowherd]

I know. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

I mean, I know you care deeply.

[Colin Cowherd]

What is your back to school night? In. In. In.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's. It's middle school. That's. That's all it is. And it's like, you know, I got. I'm on a text chat with some dads. They're like, what are we doing here? Why? I was thinking of emailing the principal. Like, listen, I would. I'm gonna be a no show guy. Sorry.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, no, but we, you know, we're talking about all this March madness, but in the NBA, fans think. Do the leagues privately know that the NBA is better if the Knicks face the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals over the Pacers? Of course they do. But leagues are not engineering it. I've got news for you. If they think about this. If the NFL was engineering outcomes, would the two most dysfunctional teams in pro football be the New York Giants and New York jets with the Green Bay packers in Buffalo and Baltimore be amazing in Kansas City right now in the NFL, all the small markets are dominating, and the big markets outside of the Rams and Eagles are kind of garbage. I mean, so this idea, like the NBA is engineering stuff. Nico, Harrison made a bad trade. Blame him, not the commissioner.

[Unknown Speaker]

So let me ask you. You know, we saw Nuggets, Heat, in the Finals a few years ago. And like, listen, Jokic versus Butler. Great ratings were awful.

[Colin Cowherd]

Awful.

[Unknown Speaker]

Nobody watched.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Unknown Speaker]

What if we get an OKC Cleveland Finals? Is that appetizing to you? I know everybody loves sga. The free throw Merchant give you?

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll give you an example. This is the nonsense that you get on Reddit boards. So the idea, like, the Celtics are a big brand, right?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Do you know who shoots the second fewest free throws in the NBA?

[Unknown Speaker]

I think it's okc.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Boston Celtics.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, is it?

[Colin Cowherd]

Why would that be? Because they shoot the most threes. So if the NBA really wanted to engineer the Celtics in the Finals, do you think they'd be shooting the second fewest free throws in the league? By the way, the warriors, until Jimmy Butler got there, never got to the free throw line because they lived on threes. So this idea, what's going to hurt Houston and OkC? Houston shooting, though, it's better than it was. Early in the year is hot and cold and OKC is really young. And those players, I can tell you right now, OKC is going to lose in the playoffs. And they're going to lose for two reasons. They're young and young players do not. Young players and role players do not perform consistently well on the road in the playoffs. And OKC has got a lot of them, very deep team. The second thing is you do not get that James Harden SGA whistle as often in the postseason. So you're getting used to sga. I watched the moves at last. Not against Sacramento. I'm like, oh, they're getting the whistle. You'll get it, but about 20% less. And so I can tell you right now, OKC is going to complain about officiating. And I'm here to tell you, go ask Karl Malone and James Harden. You do not get the whistle in the postseason.

[Unknown Speaker]

OKC fans are going to say they don't want us in the Finals. They're not giving us the whistle. No, that's just how playoff basketball is.

[Colin Cowherd]

They didn't want Denver in the Finals or San Antonio for a decade. But great is great. So it's, you know, you hear that. It's like the baseball argument about, you know, the lack of parity. Baseball's got actually really good parody. Last year, I got the AFC Division winners 4 for 4. Why? Because if you don't have a good quarterback, you can't win your division in the afc. So you want to. I don't know who's going to win the divisions in baseball. The Dodgers will win theirs, but the Diamondbacks are excellent. Great batting order. So I don't. I can't pick division winners in baseball. Either could Tom Bernucci. You can pick them in the NFL and get five right just based on quarterbacks. So what is Parody Hour three next? This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This. This commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following oupwithhate. Okay, so we all need to get away from the world sometimes. Well, in the all new 2025 Nissan Murano, you don't even have to go anywhere.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Murano is the getaway.

[Colin Cowherd]

Just picture it. The Bose premium sound system plays your favorite music as the Murano's massaging leather appointed seats melt away your stress. Yeah, that's a real getaway. Drive the all new 2025 Nissan Murano today. Bows and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features.

[Unknown Speaker]

We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson.

[Colin Cowherd]

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up everyone?

[Unknown Speaker]

Julie SW Binks here along with former.

[Colin Cowherd]

NHL player Nate Thompson.

[Rob Manfred]

We're doing a new podcast together.

[Colin Cowherd]

Here we go. The name Energy Line with Nate and JS be.

[Rob Manfred]

Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Exactly.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you'll never know who will drop.

[Colin Cowherd]

By to join us.

[Rob Manfred]

Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to Energy Line with Nate and.

[Unknown Speaker]

JSB on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.