Alex Curry (2:45)

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Alex Curry (2:51)

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

Colin Cowherd (3:11)

Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. We're back hour number two here on a Friday, spicy Friday. Oh, boy. Final day in for Colin Cowherd. He's back on Monday. I think 50 of the audience is probably excited, Alex. The other 50 is like, no, no. J. Mac, you're crushing. You're killing people. You're starting brush fires. Cam Newton's screaming at you on Instagram.

J. Mac (3:40)

J. Mac, your confidence is unmatched, and I love you for that.

Colin Cowherd (3:44)

Tyrese Halliburton, he's got the conf try to match him.

J. Mac (3:49)

I love it so much. We're literally watching him become a star in front of our eyes, like in this playoff run. And it's so beautiful because this is where stars are born. You either rise to the occasion, great players become superstars, or you kind of.

Colin Cowherd (4:03)

Just, like, shrink like SGA last. I'm not taking shots.

J. Mac (4:07)

You said it, not me.

Colin Cowherd (4:08)

Mike defebo coming on air in about five minutes to talk about Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers. I asked him on his over under on Rodgers versus Arthur Smith. We'll save that answer for we talk to him in five minutes. But I need to start the top of our number two with just some positive talk about Tyrese Halliburton. I mean, he's the man. What can I say? Like, tyrese Halliburton is cool. He's dripping, as the kids say. He's so drippy with aura right now. Another game winner. He took down my Knicks, took down the Cavs and the Bucks, which is an unprecedented, historic run of clutchness. And our staff came up with an unbelievable graphic. Folks, this is career. This is playoffs and regular season most game tying or go ahead field goals made in the final five seconds since 1997. So we're going back 28 years. LeBron obviously number one. Tyrese Halliburton is tied with Kobe and Reggie Miller, And Tyrese has four of those this postseason. This is uncharted territory. Obviously. LeBron's played, you know, 21 seasons. Tyrese Halliburton is still a young guy. He's still in his 30s. Postseason only. This is just historic stuff. We really haven't seen it. Here's Tyrese on his clutch. This after last night's game. Yeah, a lot of confidence in me to make that shot. So I don't know. I don't know what you say about it. I just know that this group is a resilient group, and, you know, we don't give up to zero, zero on the clock. So we were trying to come up with, like, what's, like, an equivalent of this. This guy literally has come out of nowhere. Okay. He was on the Sacramento Kings a few years ago. They traded him for Sabonis. I wonder how many casual basketball fans know Tyrese Halliburton was on the Olympic team last year. He's like, end of the bench guy, didn't really play a lot. Didn't. Wasn't a story. Like, Jason Tatum didn't play after winning the title, and it was like a big deal. Tyrese Halliburton went to the Eastern Conference finals, got swept by Tatum, didn't play, and it wasn't a big deal. So I don't know if he used that as fuel to get back this season. John Hollinger said that, you know, he had some kind of injury, and that carried over a little bit to the season, but he's made a jump to light speed here this season, and someone came up. This is just so good. So you guys saw the movie Top Gun Maverick, obviously, Great movie. I saw the cinema. I was like, this is better than the first Top Gun. It was awesome. And it was Tom Cruise and Miles Teller. But a guy came out of nowhere to steal the show, and that was Glenn Powell, you know, ripped, big dude. And all of a sudden, Glenn Powell in The next, like, two years is in, like, 15 movies. He's with Sydney Sweeney in a movie that's not terrible. It's a rom com, but it's not bad. He was in Twisters. That movie made him a star. He's in Top Gun, Maverick, and then, boom, he's everywhere. And I feel like, Tyrese Halliburton this postseason, I mean, these last two months, you know, I would not be surprised to see him, like, on the COVID of People magazine here this summer. Tyrese Halliburton, the NBA's next big star. His dad kind of sort of wacky, getting ejected from the stadium for getting in Giannis's face. Oh, look, Tyrese Halliburton dating a very attractive girl. Look at their relationship. Look at him hitting game winning shot. Like he is becoming one of these dudes where it's like, is he? I'm not going to go face in the NBA. And yes, there's a world where the thunder get dusted. Here or dust the Pacers four, one. And Halliburton's forgotten. I just don't see that happening. Tyrese Halliburton has all the qualities. We called him Halliburkel earlier because he's a little nerdy. Reminding people of Steve Urkel. Oh, we got a graphics team. Oh, yeah, baby. Steve Urkel, basketball legend on Family Matters. If you're under, like, 25, you have no idea what I'm talking about, but there it is. Steve Urkel doing it up on Chet Holmgren. Oh, they did Chet dirty there. Did him dirty. But Tyrese Halliburton. I'm a fan. I'm a fan fan. You know, I might need to get a Halliburton jersey this offseason. All right, let's bring in Mike defebo, Steelers beat writer for the Athletic, to talk. First of all, Mike, did you happen to watch the game last night, or were you just all about Aaron Rodgers and the big news that happened yesterday for the Steelers?

Mike DeFebo (8:30)

Well, it's kind of funny because I was watching the game and I was so tired by the end of it that I went to sleep right when it got interesting. So, Pacers fans, maybe you don't want me watching the rest of the series.

Colin Cowherd (8:40)

Wow. Wow. It was a draining day. Tell me about it. So we've been hearing reports for, I don't know, three, four months that Rogers was coming to the Steelers, and then it's like, no, maybe. We'll see. And yesterday at all crescendoed. Tell me what your day was like with Rogers.

Mike DeFebo (8:56)

Well, it makes perfect sense that happened now, because, believe it or not, I'm on vacation with my family. And so, of course, the most inconvenient time is when the biggest news will break. But it's good, and it provides some finality because I don't think I can emphasize enough what it does to a fan base's psyche to go through the off season not knowing who the quarterback is going to be. And this whole off season began with, should the Steelers sign Russell Wilson or Justin Fields? Because the president of the team and the owner, Art Rooney, right after the year, said he preferred one of those two candidates. And so it went from that discussion to just the indecision. And I think people now, even if they have their doubts about what Aaron Rodgers can do at 41 years old and coming off of the Achilles injury a couple of years ago, they're happy just to have an answer and to finally stop talking about if he's going to be the quarterback and now start talking about what can he do as the Steelers quarterback.

Colin Cowherd (9:50)

Well, Mike, first of all is major shout out for the vacation appearance. Can I ask if it's like a beach in the Caribbean, a lake house. How did the wife take it when you said hey, hey, I got to go talk Steelers and Rogers on tv.

Mike DeFebo (10:02)

Sorry, yeah, we're at Ocean Island. The only reason is this week is because my little sister lives in London and it's very difficult to find. There's four siblings in my family to get everybody. Thankfully my wife, believe it or not, is also in the business. She works for local NBC affiliate and does a lot of broadcasting. So she, she's all about it and very supportive. But yeah, everyone's at the beach right now and I'm chilling inside talking Steelers.

Colin Cowherd (10:29)

Well get used to it Mike. I mean listen, Aaron Rodgers comes with baggage nonsense. Like I as I'm a die hard jets fan and I had to deal with this crap the last two years. He loves to talk about a bunch of nonsense. I will just say this. The jets gave him everything he wanted. You want the oc, you want wide receivers, you want this. That Steelers have not really done that yet. I'm curious your take or do we see Rogers start bringing in his guys?

Mike DeFebo (10:54)

Well, the one area that I think that they could add his guys is that wide receiver. Obviously the Steelers this offseason went out and acquired DK Metcalf. A blockbuster type of move. That really is a philosophical shift for a team that for the fourth consecutive year is going to lead the league in defensive spending. They went and they paid big money to a marquee wide receiver. But then a couple of weeks later, months later, they turn around and trade George Pickens. And so last year the season really came undone and went into a tailspin when George Pickens got hurt. And for basically the whole year people were asking who's number two? Then the question was, are any of these guys capable of stepping up and be number one? So now that they have Aaron Rodgers, they know he's here. Alan Lazard would make sense. He's worked with him. He has that familiarity. You know, Kyle Pitts or another tight end like Johnny Smith may make sense because within Arthur Smith's offense, they love that tight end position. Arthur Smith loves guys who played for him. So in some form or fashion, I think the Steelers will find a way to add a playmaker. Where that comes in the form of a wide receiver or tight end remains to be seen. But I think there is a desire if you're bringing in a veteran like Aaron Rodgers. The Steelers want to give him the best possible opportunity to surround him with playmakers to do everything they can to make a run this year.

Colin Cowherd (12:07)

All right, so Steelers lose Najee Harris in the off season. Jaylen Warren was there, but he wasn't the starter. Okay. They lose Pickens or starting wide receiver that they're they got a new number two receiver I Broderick Jones. I don't remember how many games he started left tackle, but there's a lot of newness. Quarterback, receiver, running back. Should we expect some growing pains early for the Steelers?

Mike DeFebo (12:29)

Well, what they had done previously, I think this is going to be the biggest thing to iron out is what's the identity of this offense because when they brought in Arthur Smith, he's one of the most run heavy offensive coordinators in the league and last year the Steelers ran the ball fourth most and now they bring in a quarterback who had the second most passing attempts. So what do you want to be? Are you old school ground and pound Steelers football or are you a quick precise passing game that would more so fit the identity of Aaron Rodgers? And I think finding the marriage between those two and integrating these new pieces is going to be key. And if I had to guess, I think they're going to lean a bit more towards the run game. They just also drafted Caleb Johnson out of Iowa who fits Arthur Smith's scheme as a great outside zone runner. So you know they're kind of doing what they did last year with Russell Wilson. It feels very similar where they say we have the the highest paid defense. We think that they give us a certain floor. Now what we're looking for is can this veteran take what's been an instable position at quarterback and give us just something better than what we've got to push us over, over the edge. And really the hope is can you win a playoff game for the first time in eight years? Because that, that doubt, that drought has been weighing on the fans and they're very hungry for some postseason success.

Colin Cowherd (13:44)

So I'm not sure if the audience heard it the way I did. It sounds like we're shaping up as a potential tug of war between Rogers and Smith do what is what's their identity going to be. And it kind of reminds me of when Brady went to Tampa. Remember him and the head coach Arians? They kind of had different views. Then after the bye week they get on the same. I guess they played golf during the bye week or something happened like that and boom. Next thing you know, boom. Tom Brady I guess got his way and they, they go on to win the Super Bowl. Rogers is kind of older and set in his ways. I don't know. Is there an oil and water situation shaping up here?

Mike DeFebo (14:22)

Well, one thing that concerns me a bit is at the end of last season there was some friction between Arthur Smith and Russell Wilson based on how often Russell Wilson could change the play at the line of scrimmage. And that's the central piece of what Aaron Rodgers does. He has all these complex hand signals that he wants his guys to run, to learn and he wants them to run very precise, detailed routes. And so I think that could be something that they really need to iron out. I think that may be one of the biggest early things they need to figure out is how much freedom are we giving Aaron Rodgers? Are we going to say you are a four time mvp, you are a Super bowl champion, you go run the show, do your thing Aaron, because that's why we brought you here. Or do they say, look, you're 41 years old, let's both acknowledge that you're not your prime anymore. Can we run a more simple, more conservative type of offense? And really that's been Mike Tomlin's calling card recently is he's all about turnover battle. And through OTAs, numerous players said that he put stats up, he put clips up saying this is how the Pittsburgh Steelers win football games. We don't turn the football over and we take the football away. So are they going to go with that identity or are they willing to be a bit more risk averse? Those are all the things that I think they need to figure out early in order to have success.

Colin Cowherd (15:39)

Let me ask you Mike, is that a little antiquated? I mean I thought offense wins in the modern era, like hey, let's be conservative and not turn the ball over and win with defense. Like I mean how many years of without a playoff, when do you have to go before thinking and this ain't working?

Mike DeFebo (15:57)

Well, that's been a frustration of the fan base, no doubt. Is there have been times where the offense really before Arthur Smith especially was more we're going to play not to lose rather than we're going to play to win. And there's been repeated frustrations about the Steelers not throwing the ball over the middle of the field. For example, the Steelers again running the football fourth most in the league last year. So I think that Aaron will at least bring a little bit of the over the middle stuff because he wasn't, you know, I think it was 6.6 air yards per attempt last year, which is pretty low. But he does throw the ball over the middle, and that would fit DK Metcalf in terms of those slants and in breaking routes and things of that nature. So, you know, there is going to have to be a discussion here, and they're going to have to figure out who, what is this offense going to be, because truth be told, the offense has been holding back a defense that's been near championship caliber for years. This defense was completed in 2019 when they traded for Minka Fitzpatrick, and it came together just in time to give an aging Ben Roethlisberger one last chance to make a run and do something. Now that defense is risking aging out before accomplishing anything of its own. You know, Cam Hayward's getting older. He's been healthy and in uniform for one playoff win. C.J. watson line for his third contract, never won a playoff game. Minka Fitzpatrick, who, you know, he's in his late 20s, never won a playoff game. So that is something that very much motivates Mike Palmer. He wants to get Cameron Hayward that gold jacket and he wants to get him that Lombardi Trophy. And really, that's. I think that's a big reason why they brought in a veteran, because they felt that gave them the best opportunity to capitalize on this current window with this defense.

Colin Cowherd (17:39)

Yeah, Steelers fans hated me last summer when I said, if I'm Pittsburgh, I don't think Russ or Fields is getting you any anywhere near the Super Bowl. I would trade TJ Watt for a hole, and they went after me. And then Pittsburgh started out hot and I look like an idiot. I forgot what has zero playoff wins. That's incredible. So do you think that they've held onto him too long and they should look to offload him, or would that kill this defensive strategy that Tomlin has?

Mike DeFebo (18:07)

I don't think that they would do that just because they still could say, we are the Pittsburgh Steelers. And for the owner, Art Rooney, it is important to play defensive football. And TJ is like the ultimate stealer. And I think that right now he's in the middle of a contract dispute, and we're going to have to see if he reports to mandatory minicamp on Tuesday. That's going to become the next big story in Pittsburgh is what happens with TJ Watt. And Omar Khan, at least on the record, has said that he wants TJ to finish his career as a Steeler. TJ had said previously he wants to finish as a Steeler, but Omar Khan is a tough negotiator. He really is. And they're not going to just give in to the demands. The other tough thing is the Steelers, one of their biggest rivals, the Cleveland Browns, didn't do them any favors when they just handed Myles Garrett a 40 million a year contract. Right now TJ is making 28, he's going to get a big pay raise and it's going to probably be right in that ballpark. So I imagine it's going to come down to guaranteed money. I think they will get it done. My guess, and there's just a guess, is that it's going to get done sometime early in training camp. I think we could be talking about a hold in situation if they aren't, if they are, you know, if they don't get things done. But I still believe that both sides want this to work and I think that they ultimately will find a middle ground.

Colin Cowherd (19:30)

All right, Mike, two quick ones. Number one, let's just say worst case scenario, this kind of spirals. They're 4 and 8. Could Mike Tomlin be in jeopardy here? Has he pushed for Rogers to the point like hey man, this is on you if this screws up.

Mike DeFebo (19:47)

If this were another organization and if this was another head coach, I would say absolutely, because we saw that same thing unfold last year and, and it's kind of interesting because the assistant general manager, Omar Khan, his best friend in the business is Joe Douglas who just lost his job because he believed too much in Aaron Rodgers. And now here the Steelers are basically doing the same thing. But you know, Mike Tomlin has term left on his contract and he has. When you win a Super bowl when you've never had a losing season, that builds up enough equity within the organization that I would frankly be shocked if they were to move on from him after this year. Just because like let's remember how long it for them to move on from Matt Canada who had nowhere near the qualifications because they're just patient. This is the franchise that has had three head coaches since 1969. I don't think they're going to have a new head coach next year.

Colin Cowherd (20:39)

And lastly, week one, Steelers at my Jets. Steelers, I believe are a three point favorite. Rodgers facing his old team. Justin Fields facing his old team. Too early for a prediction there, Mike.

Mike DeFebo (20:55)

It may be a bit early. I would rather see the both offenses in training camp. But it does create a fascinating narrative here because initially the Steelers first plan was to go with Justin Fields this year and because of either they got outbid by the jets or Justin was soured on the way that, you know, his tenure as a starter ended. He was 4 and 2 when he was benched for Russell Wilson. Whatever the reason, you have to ask Justin Fields why he chose to go elsewhere. He's not a Pittsburgh Steeler right now, and that was. If he had chosen Pittsburgh, we wouldn't be talking right now because that was their first choice. So really, it's like, you know, the opportunity, you know, you broke up, now you're with a new girl and you get to show right in front of them. You know, I have a better situation now. So we'll see which one of the two quarterbacks is end up talking like that after this game.

Colin Cowherd (21:48)

All right, Mike DeFebo, the Athletic covers the Steelers. Hey, man, thanks for checking in on vacation. Enjoy the rest of it. I mean, you're going to get Aaron Rodgers all summer. That's much more fun than vacation.

Mike DeFebo (22:01)

Yeah, I may need another vacation after next season because I'm sure there's going to be a lot to talk about and plenty of drama. But thank you so much for having me on the show.

Colin Cowherd (22:09)

January Steelers aren't going to be in the playoffs. You can, you can take another vacation.

Mike DeFebo (22:13)

There we go. I'll book it for then.

Colin Cowherd (22:15)

All right. Coming up next here on the Herd, was the Tibbs firing months in the making. Alex Curry has a new report on the Knicks. We'll talk about that next. We all want to feel completely safe after locking up at night and headed to bed. That's the peace of mind SimpleSafe provides. Get 50% off your new SimpleSafe system with professional monitoring and your first month free@simplisafecollen.com. there's no safe safe like simply safe.

Alex Curry (22:48)

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Colin Cowherd (26:24)

Back here on the Herd. Oh, we got a Caitlin Clark Update coming in 20ish minutes. Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

J. Mac (26:40)

All right, J. Mac, we're starting in the NBA. Chris Paul spoke yesterday about his future, and the spurs are not expected to resign. Paul and Paul said any decision about where he plays next year comes with his family first. CP3 said he's lived away from his family for the past six seasons and he wants to be back near them in his Los Angeles home. So let's break down his situation here. Right, he's 40 years old, he's a free agent. Last season he played all 82 games with the Spurs. He's only done that twice in his career, so most likely, probably not going to play all 82 games next season. Wherever he. He lands in ends up. It obviously wasn't a great. Spurs were not a great team last year, but he did okay.

Colin Cowherd (27:31)

What's next?

J. Mac (27:34)

What's next?

Colin Cowherd (27:35)

I thought Alex was gonna sandbag me and be like, oh, another old guy on the Lakers.

J. Mac (27:39)

No, no, I don't.

Colin Cowherd (27:41)

Lakers. The crypto.com is turning into a retirement home. LeBron, I'm a Laker fan.

J. Mac (27:47)

What are you talking about?

Colin Cowherd (27:48)

I think this is a great move. I mean, in this, in the meeting this morning, guys were taking shots at the Lakers, and this being a bad move. I'm like, last year we had Gabe Vincent coming off the bench. Yeah, you know, the Chris Bald, an upgrade over Gabe Vincent for 15 minutes a night.

J. Mac (28:01)

He and he and LeBron have a good relationship.

Colin Cowherd (28:04)

Leader in the locker room. I just, I don't see where the loss is here. Assuming he's at the right price. I don't want to burn five.

J. Mac (28:11)

This, this would have to be like a. Like a homie deal.

Colin Cowherd (28:13)

Yeah.

J. Mac (28:14)

Hey, you want to. You want to come home?

Colin Cowherd (28:16)

Take the minimum. Take.

J. Mac (28:17)

Yeah, come on, come hang out, see your kids. That's the only way I see that happening. Interesting though, is that where you're putting your money, is that he's gonna end up. He wants to be close back to la. Obviously he's not going to go back to the Clippers.

Colin Cowherd (28:29)

The Lakers could do worse than a Hall of Fame point guard, even at 40. Smart guy. Zach in the meeting. Yeah. Hey, Rajon Rondo came to the Lakers in the bubble. He was a. Not quite a fossil, but he was a factor. Like, you don't need 30 minutes of Chris Paul. No, you need 15 minutes a night. I mean, why can't he be.

J. Mac (28:48)

He was averaging 28 minutes a game last season, playing in all 82 games with the spurs. And not bad. He had a 43% shooting percentage, 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 9 points per game average. Like someone off the bench. Not bad.

Colin Cowherd (29:03)

I'm not the biggest Chris Paul fan.

J. Mac (29:05)

I. Oh.

Colin Cowherd (29:08)

Okay. So when he was on the Rockets, he went after Steph Curry. Do you remember that? They take a 3, 2 lead. He took step celebrating hitting the threes. He would do the shimmy.

J. Mac (29:17)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (29:18)

Chris Paul hit it and did the shimmy in his face to go up. 3, 2. Side note, I was watching at the Strand House.

J. Mac (29:25)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (29:25)

And I was cheering on. The warriors packed and there were some jerk Rockets fans and they started like kind of talking trash to me. I was like, o. I'm outnumbered. I'm. I'm standing down.

J. Mac (29:34)

I like, I like Chris Paul. I mean, Obviously he's a 40 years old. You know, you are at the end of your. He's not LeBron 40. We'll put it that way. Right. It's a different. It's a different kind of 40 injuries.

Colin Cowherd (29:44)

But this is a winning player.

J. Mac (29:46)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (29:46)

Hall of Fame.

J. Mac (29:48)

He's saying he wants to be back with his family in Los Angeles.

Colin Cowherd (29:51)

Fifteen minutes a night.

J. Mac (29:53)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (29:53)

Like T.J. mcConnell. He could be T.J. mcConnell.

J. Mac (29:56)

Not bad.

Colin Cowherd (29:56)

Without. Well, he could play pressure defense for work. That's Chris Paul. I play pressure. Had to. Alex. Come on. Every day I've gotta reference a men's league.

J. Mac (30:05)

I can't jv, we need like a bingo card. A little drinking game anytime anybody shape messages. Men like. All right, let's move to your Knicks and the decision to fire Tom Thibodeau surprise a lot of people considering how far they went in the playoffs. But according to reports, New York has been considering the move from Tibs with Ramona Shelburne reporting that the Knicks front office didn't feel tips was maxing out Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns. And there are some smoke to this. Giannis and Jason Kid and Nick's fire. Mark Stein reported the Knicks are asking permission to talk to Kid and a Milwaukee based reporter saying that the Knicks are preparing to make a tsunami type offer to get Giannis. So I know we mentioned it, we talked on it. The connection there with Jason Kidd, his first real big break is as a. On the other side, coaching was, was helping Giannis really unlock himself in Milwaukee. And Giannis is a huge fan of them. So.

Colin Cowherd (31:05)

So it. So I'm a weirdo. So, you know, you know, I'M weird.

J. Mac (31:11)

I think the audience doesn't weird as well.

Colin Cowherd (31:12)

So I always, like, tune out other people and just focus on my takes. I don't really listen to outside news, so that's why I like to be what I think is first with a lot of, like, good takes and stuff.

J. Mac (31:25)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (31:26)

I wish I was first on this Jason kid. Giannis, I'm, like, stewing that you and. And you guys cooked it up and. Yeah, that's a great take.

J. Mac (31:35)

Listen, it's starting. It's starting to get some heat now.

Colin Cowherd (31:38)

Remember earlier this week it was OK'd for cat? Yeah. And now it's like, hey, you can get Jason Kidd and Giannis. Yeah. Where can I sign up for that?

J. Mac (31:46)

Alex, do it. Why wouldn't you?

Colin Cowherd (31:50)

This is a. Next week is going to be very interesting.

J. Mac (31:53)

Very interesting.

Colin Cowherd (31:54)

Katie is his agent. I don't know how much we're doing on it, but Katie's agent is desperate to get Katie out of Phoenix. Yeah, like.

J. Mac (32:02)

Well, because if Giannis goes somewhere first, he's going to set the market and they're not going to get that for Katie.

Colin Cowherd (32:08)

Not a lot of teams.

J. Mac (32:09)

You're not going to get that. You're trying to offload Katie now so you can get as much as you can before. Before Giannis sets the market.

Colin Cowherd (32:16)

Yeah. So maybe this is going to be like the 2019 off season where big names. Chris Paul, Lakers, Kevin Durant goes to the Clippers, Giannis, Nicks, you know, Zion could be like, there's so many big.

J. Mac (32:29)

Names that could be on Move Spicy. It's exciting, it's fun, it's exciting. All right, let's wrap things up in the NFL. The Lions are coming off their most successful two years in team history, but wide receiver Amon Ross St. Brown isn't satisfied. He was asked by a reporter what his goal for this season is, and he said, for us, it's super bowl or nothing. But honestly, it's been super bowl or bust the last two years for the Lions. They've just busted big time the last two years. Lost in the second round last year in conference championship the year before. And you have to remember this year, they're coming in the season. New offensive coordinator, new defensive coordinator, One of the toughest schedules in the league. You just lost your. Your center, Frank Ragnow, he just retired. A positive is that I don't think you have as big of a target on your back. Their odds to win the Super bowl, they're 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5th favorite now. They were like, top last year or the year before, but they're favored at plus a thousand right now because you got Eagles, Bills, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions, commanders as odds to win the Super Bowl.

Colin Cowherd (33:39)

Do you like that that he's saying for us, super bowl or bus?

J. Mac (33:42)

Well, that's what that should be. The mentality of every great player and every great team. If you're not going into a season with that mentality, why, what are you doing? Why are you playing the game? I love when people say that because then you really believe they're going to go out there and give it their all. The thing is, it's like that's what it has been for the Lions the last two years. They've just busted in the playoffs. They've had an incredible regular season the last few years. They just weren't. They have not gotten to the super bowl yet and they were. They've been favorites.

Colin Cowherd (34:13)

But I'm more of an under promise over deliver. I mean, if you don't get to the super bowl, then you're going to.

J. Mac (34:20)

Just say that's what it was like three years ago. And they kind of like took everybody by storm three seasons ago. And then last year you had the biggest target on your back, but they still had an incredible regular season. Now it's. I think the positive is they don't have that huge target on their back. Like, there's still like expectations within the organization, obviously, but there's so many changes that I don't think anybody's expecting them to be as great as they were last year.

Colin Cowherd (34:50)

Were they 15 wins last year?

J. Mac (34:52)

Is that what it was?

Colin Cowherd (34:53)

Because I think The Vikings were 14 in second place. What's your guess on this here, Alex? Detroit Lions wins.

J. Mac (34:59)

What was the over Under?

Colin Cowherd (35:00)

I think ten and a half.

J. Mac (35:06)

Can we get their schedule back up?

Mike DeFebo (35:08)

Wow.

Colin Cowherd (35:09)

She's gonna go game by game, Alex.

J. Mac (35:13)

It's. It's tough. Like, I have them right around. This is why, like, the, the oddsetters are so great. They have a right at like 10, 11 wins. I don't think they'll have as many as last year.

Colin Cowherd (35:23)

So 15 and 2 to 11 and 6.

J. Mac (35:28)

I don't think they get more than 11 wins this season. It's. It's tough. They literally have like, according to some models, the toughest schedule in the league.

Colin Cowherd (35:41)

Well, you got to face a new.

J. Mac (35:42)

Offensive coordinator and a new defensive coordinator and he just lost your most likely future hall of Fame center. Like, there's a lot of big changes here.

Colin Cowherd (35:51)

So you got to face Lamar Burrow, Mahomes, Jaden Daniels, Jalen hurts. Jordan Love twice. Stafford, that's a lot of top.

J. Mac (35:59)

It's a lot.

Colin Cowherd (36:01)

And their defense kind of not great.

J. Mac (36:03)

The back end too. I mean, after the buy again, we don't know what J.J. mcCarthy's going to look like. He's going to be good commanders. Coming back defending champs. What you're getting in New York, we don't really know. And then, yeah, the last, last two games, I mean, the vision games are always spicy because anything can happen. There's so much emotion wrapped up in it. Yeah, I had a 10, 11 win season.

Colin Cowherd (36:24)

All right, Alex with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. I want to make sure I read this right because we haven't talked about Caitlin Clark in a while. She's been injured.

J. Mac (36:35)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (36:36)

But coming up, there's a former NBA WNBA star who thinks Caitlin Clark will be the best WNBA player ever. Ever. Boy, don't tell that to Diana Taurasi. She's gonna be very upset. That's next year on the Herd.

Alex Curry (36:50)

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.

Colin Cowherd (36:54)

Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

Alex Curry (36:59)

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports and of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone call, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobeno Enrich wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate the all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset. Your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.comleadership to learn more. That's paycor.comleaders everybody loves a good MVP story. And the story of Wasabi Technologies is one of the best. Wasabi is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company, becoming the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware. Wasabi has taken the lead in driving innovation in data storage, eliminating overhead where it matters to deliver you results you can count on and won't break the bank. In fact, Wasabi's up to 80% less than those other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi another championship story. Check them out for free@wasabi.com Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage proud partner of the Volume podcast, network journalism.

J. Mac (41:26)

Face off in the 157th Belmont Stakes. Two of the season's biggest names, one race to settle it all coverage begins tomorrow, 4:00pm Eastern live on Fox.

Colin Cowherd (41:40)

All right, back here on the heard, they just notified me that we have Ryan Hollins coming up final hour. I wonder if he's as excited for Halliburton as I am. Will he take jabs and overrated sga. Okay, I'm just kidding. Listen, anytime you talk Caitlyn Clark on air, you got to be careful. You guys know I have a podcast, and anytime I bring up Caitlin Clark, the downloads go way up. People are obsessed. They are really into Caitlin Clark. I don't know if it has to do with our political climate, the league, but Caitlin Clark has clearly put the WNBA on the map. That is undeniable. I don't care what anybody says. By any metric you want, since Caitlin Clark arrived, the league is up. Revenue, jersey sales, TV ratings, any ticket prices, whatever you want. It's up. Since Clark. She's had a massive impact on the league. Now, she's been hurt, and I'm not embarrassed to say I haven't seen one WNBA score since, you know, I haven't heard one person say, oh, did you see Clark go off last night? You know, I drive my kids around like we joke around dads. We're a chauffeur after school because your kids have to go to, you know, whether it's chess or volleyball or whatever it is, hang out with their friends. And sometimes I'm in a car and I could just turn on my phone and watch five minutes of Caitlin Clark cook up the Washington Mystics or whatever. But Clark's been out for a minute now, so wnba, not a lot of pub. Well, Dawn Staley, a legendary coach and player on the women's basketball front, she talked about Caitlin Clark. And listen, Diana Taurasi, cover your earmuffs this one because you're not going to like what you heard. Caitlin will go down. It's probably one of the best players to ever grace the league. And she's gonna probably do it. She's gonna probably do it in half of the time that it takes any other great player. Her passing ability, her court vision is second to none. Like, her ability to deliver the basketball makes her like, I mean, a triple threat. They surrounded her with just such great talent. And you, you know, a triple double is going to be a normal, a normal thing for Caitlyn. It's high praise from Dawn Staley. I mean, Don Staley, great coach, Sacramento, amazing player, I believe, at uva. I think I was a young guy when she was coming up. But it's weird. We don't get a lot of people saying amazing stuff like that about Caitlin Clark. Why is that? Well, you can draw your own conclusions. I think a lot of it has to do with jealousy that there have been so many great WNBA basketball players who didn't do this stuff for the league. I'm looking at you, Diana Taurasi, and next thing you know, Caleb Clark's doing it and she's getting all the attention. You know, Diana Taurasi & Co. Did a lot for the league. That's undeniable. But I'm sorry, people just didn't really care. Okay, Now Caitlin Clark regular season games are drawing massive ratings, enormous crowds. I mean, the staff presented me with some staggering numbers. Do you guys know gambling on WNBA games is dropping precipitously just because Caitlin Clark's not playing? People gamble on games where she's involved. She's not playing. I'm not gambling ticket prices. I mean, you can walk up to a WNBA game with the Fever now and get in for like $8, $10. I think USA Today wrote about that. Was like, oh, Caleb Clark tickets. Tough to get two, three hundred bucks. Oh, Caitlin Clark's out. Yeah, six bucks. Get in. Like that's where we are. TV ratings. Look at them for, for Fever games since Clark's been out. And I know when you throw around the word jealousy, people get very, very upset. This is not an apples to apples comparison, but I'll never forget, guys, there's a reporter, Marcus something or other in the Bay Area. He's great. Marcus Thompson. And I had him on my radio show way back as Steph Curry was ascending. And he said something so frickin smart. It was amazing. I said, why does Chris Paul hate Steph Curry? This was like 20, 15, 16, 17. Why does Russell. The disdain those stars had for Curry was just. I could not process it. I'm like, he's a nice guy. He's a family guy. He's a great basketball player. He's not getting in trouble. He's not stirring up. Why do they hate him? And this guy Marcus, who wrote a book either with Curry or on Curry, said, well, you know, Jay, there's this hierarchy in basketball. So it was Kobe and Shaq. Then Shaq peters out, then it's Kobe, and then LeBron. You got next. And then LeBron takes over the league. Well, there was a moment where KD and Russell Westbrook went to the finals, and everybody thought, Russ is the next great point guard in the NBA. There was a moment where Chris Paul was with Lob City, and he was the next great point guard in the NBA. And this guy named Steph Curry shows up and starts dropping bombs from three, and he's got a tag team partner in Klay Thompson, and they're the Splash brothers, and they kind of hit the league like a comet. They couldn't get out of the first round. Remember, they had that tough first round loss to the Clippers in seven. And I remember it because I bet it. I was all in on Curry. And then the next year, pow, they take off like a jet and they win the championship. And what. You know, you usually have to. You have to. What is it? You have to. Before you walk, you have to crawl, and before you run, you have to walk. And you have to take these steps in sports. And Steph Curry bypassed those steps. And as such, the guys who were on the doorstep, like, they'd been around, they were like, how is this guy passing me? And I believe there's some of that at play with Caitlin Clark right now that she has become such a big deal. Not just in the league now, but I'm talking all time. And when you hear Dawn Staley say, oh, she's gonna be one of the all time greats, that's when people perk up and they're like, what? Oh, no, wait a minute. Caitlin Clark's gonna. She's gonna get the business as a. As a rookie. She's gonna come in. This is a totally different ball game. And then she was all wnba like, her first season. Okay. It's like an MVP finalist. Oh, and now she's utterly dominant early, before the injury to start this season. And, like, I know it makes people upset and. And, yeah, there's probably some jealousy, but sometimes you just got to accept the reality, like, Kayla Clark's doing everything right. She's Dominating on the court. She's helping the league reach heights they've never seen before. And yet there's still that disdain and anger toward Clark. And again, you know, I've never met Caitlin Clark, but I do know this. Trust me. My wife and daughter were like circling on the calendar. Hey, when is Caitlyn Clark coming to la? When are they playing the Sparks? We went last year. It was a scene and it was like Caitlin Clark. It was her first ever WNBA victory. And I swear to you, the whole lower bowl was rooting for Caitlin Clark here in la. It was incredible. After the game, she's doing an interview, mobs of people, my kid included, trying to get an autograph. It's crazy. We haven't seen this for anyone in the league before and I know it get you're in your feelings about it, but here's the reality. She's a huge deal and she's gonna be. She's gonna be the goat in the wnba, assuming she's healthy. Guys, you know, juju Watkins is going to come up. Coming off the injury, she's very good and we'll see. But there's no stopping Caitlin Clark in the wnba. All right, we'll wrap up this hour with an interesting story. I saw out of Washington, so I'm bullish on the Washington commanders bouncing back in year two. Okay, Year one, Jaden Daniels. Unbelievable. They're calling it the greatest rookie quarterback season ever. Like a dummy, I was betting against them early. I'll remember last summer. I'm sure you guys remember it. When I came on the air and I was like, there's too much newness in Washington. New owner, new gm, new coach, new new quarterback. Come on, that's just too much to overcome. It literally hadn't been done in NFL history where you have all of that new. I mean, remember, you got to get alignment with these guys. It's real tough. Take a look what the Phoenix Suns did. You know, Ishpia tried to put together a. A team with a front office and everything to make the Suns a super team and none of it works. So what did he do this offseason? He aligned with all Michigan State guys. Go, go look it up. He's a Michigan State guy. Oh, new head coach. Yeah. Michigan State. Of course, all Michigan State. So you got to get that alignment. So Washington didn't have it and it didn't matter because this guy Jaden Daniels was so good. Jaden Daniels really helped a certain guy by the name of Terry McLaurin have the best season of his career, 13 touchdowns by far. It was his fifth straight 1,000 yard season. I mean, Terry McLaurin is great. Probably the most underrated receiver in the league because he was playing with like Taylor Heinecke and Ryan Fitzpatrick and still putting up numbers. Here he is against the Cowboys in an extremely memorable game. Terry McLaurin is awesome. By most metrics. I would say He's a top 10 receiver in the league. You could argue he's pushing top five just based on numbers. And I, I unbelievable set. Hasn't fumbled according to pro football stats in the last four years, like zero. And now he's upset with contract negotiations and there's talk of a potential holdout. Not great when you're all excited. You just got Laramie Tunsall, your left, a new left tackle. You just got Debo Samuel. You're like, we got to the NFC championship. Can we make that next league to the Super Bowl? Why not? And this is the problem. Washington's up against. They've got cap space. The time to spend on ancillary pieces. Wide receiver, running back is now. Jane Daniels is making peanuts. When he's out of the rookie deal, he's going to be at 60 million a year. So what is the hold up here? Now, I did get a text right before the show that this is going to be fine. It's not a big deal. This is not a huge agent trying to get his guy a major payday and that's understandable. My guess is this gets done and it's much ado about nothing. That being said, I don't love this now for Washington, I mean, everything's positive. Things are looking rosy. This team legitimately could go to the super bowl. And now you got your best player outside of your quarterback kind of chirping. Hopefully Dan Quinn and company can figure this out soon. Coming up next, Captain Clutch does it again for Indian game 1. Halliburkel to the rescue.

Alex Curry (53:00)

Summer is here and you can now get almost any anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. BMW didn't just design an electric suv. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With a BMW IX you'll experience unmatched power, utility, spaciousness, versatility. My favorite feature Cloud based navigation monitors charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease. BMW lets performance do the talking, and the scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychex company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders. You've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Herd podcast. I love a good metaphor, so here's one for you. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's the Green River Whiskey Raise your Spirits, a product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume, varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly.

Colin Cowherd (55:19)

This is an iHeart podcast.