Rachel Nichols (3:13)

Oh, yeah. Moving weekend. Oh, no, we're fine. Just for, just for a bit. I don't need to go into details.

Colin Cowherd (3:19)

Ye.

Colin Cowherd (3:19)

We've had a couple. It's going to be fun stuff. Couple people on staff have moved recently and I told them it's a nightmare.

Rachel Nichols (3:25)

It's a nightmare.

Colin Cowherd (3:25)

Two of my. It's okay. The wife won't want me saying this, but two of our biggest arguments were both big moves.

Rachel Nichols (3:32)

Oh, yeah.

Colin Cowherd (3:32)

And they were. It's just moving sucks. It's not fun.

Rachel Nichols (3:34)

We surrender. We're making it fun, making it positive. I'm going to have a good time. We're going to be watching games. We have games on. But that's why I can't be at Dodgers, Yankees this weekend because normally I'd be working it or I'd be there watching it. I'm pumped for you. It should be fun for a treat.

Colin Cowherd (3:47)

Very excited Dodgers, Yankees this weekend. And then Saturday night I think we get Knicks, Pacers before we get to the NBA. Gotta talk NFL real quick. So, you know, we got a great staff. I walk into the staff meeting a little late, of course, because I got a bit of a drive and I see this Kansas City chief story. I'm like, what's going on here? Patrick Mahomes says, if this is the last ride, you would never know for Travis Kelce. Instantly I started laughing. And my mind goes back to, I think the last time I hosted, I said, she's going to the playoffs next year, guys. And you know, I get these yahoos from Kansas City sending me stuff on social media. Got like 2 million views. I'm a hater, I'm an idiot, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, I, I got some news for Patrick Mahomes and it's not great. Let's. Let's play the audio. Here's Patrick Mahomes talking about Travis Kelce saying this is. This is probably not his last ride.

Colin Cowherd (4:44)

If it's the last ride, you would never know. I mean, the way he's talking about football, the way he's talking about working and trying to be even better this year than he was last year. I mean, he's not. It doesn't seem like a guy that it's his last Ride like he's tired of the job. I mean, he's in here, he's working and I know his body feels good. I think it feels better than even last year before going into last season. Just because I think he's motivated to go out there and have an even better year than he had this last year.

Colin Cowherd (5:10)

Last ride. That was six months ago in the Super Bowl. It's over for the Chiefs. Guys. You had a great run and I know you're saying, Jay, you're hating. Let me just remind you, Tom Brady won in 2004. He had, I believe, three Super Bowls at the time. It took him a decade to win another one. This stuff is not easy. Just because you have Mahomes and Reed, it doesn't guarantee you a spot in the Super Bowl. I mean, again, history is just a guide here. But it took Brady a decade before winning another. They were favored against the Giants in two more super bowl trips and lost both of them. We know recent history of super bowl losers ain't pretty. Go ask the Niners who fell apart injury wise after losing that overtime game to the Chiefs. Super bowl loser. Chiefs lost a few years ago in the Super Bowl. Chiefs beat the Eagles. I'm sorry, Chiefs beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl. And what happened to the Eagles? They fell apart the next year. There is a bit of a curse for the super bowl loser. And oh by the way, 12, 0 in 1 score games last year. Good luck duplicating that one. And you know, I've got to mention it, I know Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift are not going to like to hear this, but in the final two games of last year, Travis Kelce looked lost. I don't want to use the word watch. That's a little bit harsh. But he had two for 19, two catches for 19 yards against Buffalo. And there are a lot of highlights, or I guess I should say lowlights from the super bowl of Kelsey kind of going through the motions when they were getting their butts kicked. He ended up with four catches for 39 yards. He's starting to look his age. What do you want? Like that's what happens when you get old. The guy's a Hall of Fame lock. We know that he's had a great career, but endings are not always pretty. And I'm just saying, this whole talk about a last ride, I, I think that was the last ride. They were going for the three peat and they failed. They got their butts kicked. And this idea that they're going to go 12 and 0 in one score games. Again, that's not happening. You know, the offensive line has a lot of questions. The wide receiver room has a lot of questions. I'm not as big of a believer in the Chiefs next year. And, you know, I. I gotta say, I don't like the Raiders a lot, but they got better. You look at the schedule here for the Chiefs, like, right out the gate, you got the tough game against the Chargers. Then you got the Eagles, the defending super bowl champs, whooped you. You got a layup with the Giants. But then it's Lamar Jackson skip a game. Jared Goff, that ain't going to be easy. You got to face Jaden Daniels, got to go to Buffalo for seemingly the 10th straight year. Folks, that is a tough schedule. I'm calling for eight or nine wins and no playoffs. I know I'm in the minority. And Jay, you were so wrong about okc. Fine. Rachel Nichols will yell at me in a minute if she wants. You can't bat a thousand when you're in this spot. But all the numbers to me line up with Chiefs. And if all you've got is, well, we've got Reed and Mahomes. Fine, I'll take that bet. All right, let's bring in Rachel Nichols, NBA insider. She's covered the league forever. I was a young guy picking up the newspaper from the driveway before school, and I would read the Rachel Nichols byline with, like, J A Adande Wil Bond.

Rachel Nichols (8:15)

You read me. And I, when I was a kid in the Washington, D.C. area, read Welbon and Kornheiser. And I was like, this is why I want to get into the business. And here we are. Yeah, I feel good for us. How do we do? We did okay, right?

Colin Cowherd (8:24)

We did okay. We survived. I don't want to say I made it. You certainly made it. I'm trying still to make it, but I see word is that Nyx Blue.

Rachel Nichols (8:32)

It is that. Well, look, it's all the blues, right? I mean, you got the thunder blue.

Colin Cowherd (8:35)

No, it's not thunder blue.

Rachel Nichols (8:36)

So many blues.

Colin Cowherd (8:37)

It's not thunder blue.

Rachel Nichols (8:38)

So many blues. So little time.

Colin Cowherd (8:40)

So I guess I don't want to be too negative. I just crushed the Chiefs. Tyrese Halliburton was kind of sort of bad last night. What was going on?

Rachel Nichols (8:48)

Yeah, passive for sure, right? I mean, look, he is not a 50 points a game guy, typically. So it's not like, oh, man, he didn't score 50, but he should not be taking seven shots in 32 minutes. That should never happen. And by the way, he missed five of them.

Colin Cowherd (9:00)

Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (9:01)

I would not expect any of that to happen again. I don't know what was going on with a lot of the Pacer sort of rhythm. The other, you know, they're not paying at the pace they normally play at. One thing I like to listen for on a Knicks broadcast is can the organist get into the like defense. Right. That. That chant. And if he can get into the whole do defense chant, that means the Pacers are not playing at their correct style and pace of play because he should be. It should be so fast to the other end that he can't even get into the like the whole thing. And so we were getting a lot of organ last night and if you have a lot of Oregon, that does not favor Tyrese Haliburton and the Pacers, I'm interested to see when they get back to their own court. You are not going to have all five starters only totaling what, 37 points like that. Right. I mean that's not going to happen. The Knicks force 20 turnovers. I don't expect that to happen again. So it'll be interesting to see if the scales even out and it really does become a brawl. Who's going to come out of game six?

Colin Cowherd (9:56)

So let me ask, what took Thibodeau so long to pick up Halliburton full court. It feels kind of basic. Tibbs, what was going on?

Rachel Nichols (10:03)

Well, look, there's a lot there too. What took him so long to play more of his bench?

Colin Cowherd (10:07)

There you go.

Rachel Nichols (10:07)

Okay, that's another thing I listen to. On the broadcast I heard Landry Shammit cheers from the Garden faithful. Do you know what has to happen for there to be Landry Shamrot Cheers down 20. Landry Shamrot has to play. That's what has to happen. And so we are seeing him go deeper into his rotation. We're seeing him pick up Halberton. As you said, he's getting a little tweaky and tickery there, which is not the Tib stick style. But you know, look, we said the first couple games of the series it felt like he was being out coached by Rick Carlisle and there's no shame in that. Rick Carlisle is a champion, a Hall of Fame coach. Tom Thibodeau obviously an exceptional long tenured coach. But it's nice to see him also tinkering and sort of seeing what he can do with this team because it's a fascinating series as we go.

Colin Cowherd (10:48)

Yeah. So this is a tough one. But like, you know, I know the players and coaches. We don't listen to the media. Tune it out. I wonder Thibodeau made so many changes. I wonder if he hurt. Like, there's been talk, hey, Michael Malone could be the next coach of the Knicks. Like, Tibbs wasn't pushing the right buttons. Do you think that there was some outside noise that changed things, or do you see analytics? I don't know.

Rachel Nichols (11:07)

I don't know. I don't think Tom. I don't think Tibbs really pays a lot of attention to what so and so in the New York Post is saying. Like, it's just not how he worried about Brunson.

Colin Cowherd (11:16)

Because I do.

Rachel Nichols (11:17)

Yeah. I do think that players hear it a lot more. You're absolutely right. And look, the thing about Tibbs is it interesting when things were looking dicey but, like, rougher than expected in that Pistons series, there were people around the league being like, man, if they get upset against Detroit and they lose in the first round, Tom could lose his job.

Colin Cowherd (11:34)

Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (11:35)

And we are way, obviously past that now. He will be. Regardless of the outcome of Saturday night's game, Tom Thibodeau will be fine, and he will be the coach of the New York Knicks.

Colin Cowherd (11:44)

All right, I want to play some sound here from Pascal Siakam last night. Take a listen, and I'm curious your thoughts on it.

Tyrese Haliburton (11:52)

They played harder than us, I think. I think they play harder than us. You know, loose balls, like, rebounds, like, all that.

Rachel Nichols (11:59)

How is that possible?

Tyrese Haliburton (12:00)

What do you mean?

Rachel Nichols (12:01)

How is it possible to not fight.

Rachel Nichols (12:02)

Hard enough in game.

Tyrese Haliburton (12:04)

What are you talking about?

Colin Cowherd (12:05)

They.

Tyrese Haliburton (12:05)

They played harder than us. It's okay. We played hard, but they played harder. What's your point? I don't get it.

Alex Curry (12:11)

My point is you're saying you got.

Rachel Nichols (12:12)

A guy out far.

Tyrese Haliburton (12:13)

That happens in the game, though. That's basketball. You're good. You're good, bro. You're looking for something. I know I'm. But damn. No, no, but I'm. I'm telling you, though. I told you what else you want me to tell you.

Rachel Nichols (12:31)

I want you to tell me how.

Alex Curry (12:33)

That's all I'm asking.

Tyrese Haliburton (12:34)

Oh, what about you? Tell me. So go ahead. Who's this guy? Who's this guy?

Colin Cowherd (12:42)

All right, first of all, Rachel, I love that I know the reporter in question, Greg Doyle. I don't want to blast the guy. Whatever. Irrelevant. I do wonder, though, is this the first sign that maybe pressure is getting to the Pacers because Siakam didn't like the line of questioning that, like, we got outplayed and he was pushing back and I don't know that Pascal Siakam has showed anything like that in a press conference all season. So I wonder if the pressures may be getting them or is this. Am I reaching here?

Rachel Nichols (13:08)

Well, I liked what he said when he said, what do you mean? We did play hard, just played harder. I like that part because, like, to pretend that these are elite level athletes, to pretend that anyone out there in the Eastern Conference finals isn't trying is such a. I'm not saying that's what Greg said, but, I mean, it's just such a crazy sort of notion. I hear fans say sometimes, of course they were trying. It just was not their night. I do think the pressure is now on them, though, whether it started in the post game press conference or whether it extends to Saturday night. I know that they played a Game 7 in Madison Square Garden last year. I know that. I remember that.

Colin Cowherd (13:39)

Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (13:40)

However, that game was not a pressure game because the Knicks were so battered and bruised. They were wheeling OG Anunoby out there practically at like a walker under the basket, like everybody was hurt. You knew the Pacers were winning that game. This game, this game six at home, with a Game seven in the Garden looming and teams relatively at full strength. That's the pressure. And I think this is where we will see where the rubber meets the road with these pacers.

Colin Cowherd (14:05)

100%. All right, we're going to come back from break with Rachel. I'm going to tell her why I've got the Knicks winning Game six.

Rachel Nichols (14:11)

I'm shocked to hear this.

Colin Cowherd (14:12)

I don't know if they got a better chance to win the finals than the Pacers. We'll be back after this. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand, whenever you'd like.

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Colin Cowherd (18:44)

Welcome back. Rachel Nichols in studio talking NBA Knicks triumphant last night. The big game six. So Rachel, the last time I can remember a big team coming back from down 31 besides the Cavs warriors was that warriors team that won 73 games. They were down 31 to the Thunder. They went on the road in game six and Clay went for 41, hit 11 threes. Do you think the Knicks have somebody on that roster who can deliver a Clay type performance on the road?

Rachel Nichols (19:14)

Look, this series is very close. In fact, if you look at the point differential, the Knicks are actually ahead. They've scored more points in this series than Indiana. If game one had gone differently, we would be having a very different conversation. And 10 things had to happen for game one to go the way it did. And I'm not saying the pacers got lucky. Seven of those 10 things were things the Pacers did, but it still required 10 things, right? So that's how close the Knicks are. That's how close this series is. And I don't have any question that it's possible they could win the next two games. I just think it's hard to win three in a row against an evenly matched opponent. They've won the first of those three, but can they win the next two? And I, I to your point, does it take a Klay Thompson Like 40 point performance, someone shoot the lights out. And by the way, the thing we forget about that game in game six, Clay is he still had Steph Curry scoring.

Colin Cowherd (20:04)

He did. Curry at 31.

Rachel Nichols (20:05)

Yeah. It's not as if he, like he did it all by himself. So it's like, oh yeah, man, Jalen Brunson can drop 50, he can but then who else is there? And that's where we get back into the Karl Anthony Townes conversation. A conversation I know you have had plenty, both on the show and with your friends in the group chat. And what I loved about what we saw last night from Kat and which would give me hope if I was a Knicks fan, is that he was in full bodega cat mode. He was scratching and crawling. You know, all the things that you want to see him playing so physical, face to the basket, being aggressive. If he is that kind of player, if he can be that consistent, if Jalen Brunson not only lights it up offensively, but also plays decent defense, which he has not been playing for all of this series, but certainly played last night, that's where you start to be like, oh, could they have a game six? Could they have a game seven? That kind of thing.

Colin Cowherd (20:50)

All right, so before we get to okc, everybody's favorite team, the new darling. So, you know, there's this whole big small market narrative around the league, right? And I just wonder, like, we've seen changes in the league with the cba. They want small market teams to thrive, right? They've adjusted the cba, so if you draft a superstar, he's incentivized to stay with you. And now we've got the aprons. And I'm reading about the Minnesota Timberwolves, apparently, like, they're not going to be able to afford everybody. Randall, they're going to lose. Alexander Walker, like, this is what the league wants. Seven different champs in the seven years parody. But, Rachel, I go back to the 2000 and tens or teens, however you call it. I love the super team era, right? I mean, it was like stacked teams. I don't care if they're in Cleveland or Miami or Golden State. Like, to me, I love that. I know you've been around the league forever, but, like, who do you. Did you prefer the super league, super teams, or do you prefer now with, like, everybody has a chance.

Rachel Nichols (21:46)

It's just important to think back through who's making these decisions, because you think about what the league wants. It's not only Adam Silver in the league office. He has bosses. Adam Silver's bosses are the 30 owners, right? And the 30 owners, they want parity. They want more than three or four teams in it because guess what? If there's only three or four teams in it, then 25, 26, the teams, they don't have a shot. They want seven champions in seven years because that means more of them have a chance to Hoist up a championship trophy. So that is who is making these decisions. That's who's making the rules about the aprons and all of this other stuff. And yeah, they want to incentivize players to stay in markets where they can't necessarily grab and attract free agents. But I just think it kind of, it goes in cycles when we have dynasties. It's frankly good for the league in terms of people outside the game because that's what attracts non basketball fans. After a few years of Steph Curry and the warriors winning. Your grandmother knows who Steph Curry is.

Colin Cowherd (22:41)

Exactly.

Rachel Nichols (22:41)

When there's a different champion every year, your grandmother does not have time to learn who Nikola Jokic or SGA is. And as I've said on this network, some grandmas know who Nikola Jokic is and I applaud those grandmas. But it's not the same. It's not the same. So. So I think that's what you're feeling a little bit. If you are a fan, if you are an in it everyday basketball fan, I think you probably like that there is a little more parity because your team might be able to get there and that.

Colin Cowherd (23:05)

So who, who are we catering to? The 25 billionaire owners who own teams and want to profit? Or the casual fans, the grandmas or the diehards who are going to watch regardless whether it's a super team or Denver winning the title or a small.

Rachel Nichols (23:20)

Jason, you read the newspaper. We cater to billionaires in this country. That's what we do. Oh, I like that.

Colin Cowherd (23:26)

So let me ask along that line, like, do you think OKC is set up for a dynasty? Because I will say, Rachel, we heard this about Denver when they won. Oh, Murray and Jokic in their prime.

Alex Curry (23:35)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (23:35)

Then we heard this about Boston. Amazing roster. Now we're hearing the same about okc. And I'm like, I've heard this before.

Rachel Nichols (23:42)

Look, the advantage OKC has and the reason everyone is so excited is because they are a young team with players playing on smaller rookie contracts because it will be a couple of years until some of their younger players like Jalen Williams, Chet Holmgren need to really get paid. They will have the chance to keep this team together. SGA's Supermax doesn't kick in right away, that kind of thing. Boston was certainly set up even though they were into the second apron. They were set up to be a team because they kept their guys who could win a couple championships. They just had some bad play, first of all against the Knicks and then also some bad luck. With the Tatum injury, if the Oklahoma City Thunder continue as they are and all of the assets that they have, that's the other ingredient. Oh, the draft picks, yes, they are set up for a run, but to your point, this is such a competitive Western Conference, it is ridiculous. And now we're talking about rumors that Giannis is going to now join this. Just getting out of the west is going to be so hard for so many teams, including even the Thunder. Even if they win the title this year, even if they look unstoppable, they will still have to go through such a gauntlet next year.

Colin Cowherd (24:46)

And I'll add, like I had to look this up, but the second highest paid player on the Thunder is Isaiah Hartenstein.

Rachel Nichols (24:52)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (24:52)

$30 million. Like wow, that is a crazy roster. So let me one more thing on sga. So Jeff Teague, I'm sure you're familiar with his work, said that SGA has saved the league with his mid range assassin stuff. I agree with some of that. The mid range is back. Is is interesting because Brunson's doing the same thing but saving the NBA. Rachel, does the NBA need saving?

Rachel Nichols (25:16)

No. I mean look, everything in our hot take world is sort of so extreme. You know, the NBA is on death's door. OG SGA has come and nursed us back to health. Look, I like Jeff by the way, but. But yes, I think that there's no question that there's a little bit more mid range game in the NBA. I have been saying for years, yes, three is more than two, but two is more than zero. So if you don't have a good three to take, take the two because two is more than zero and I think we are getting a little bit of that back. Everything is swings, right? So when analytics became so effective people were like only do this, only do that. And now we're seeing a little bit of swings back of like a little flexibility within some games. And in Boston Celtics by the way, which will still take only threes and shoot, you try to shoot you out of the building. So not every team is the same. I think SGA is a good player because he is a good player. It is not because he is taking mid range shots. Yes, he is very good at them and he is taking them and he is using them effectively. But he's doing so many other things on the court effectively too and that is what is powering this team. He's a great defender. I mean it's not just oh that one shot that's saving the NBA and that's What SGA does, He does a lot of things.

Colin Cowherd (26:21)

So the Pacers were in the Eastern Conference finals last year?

Rachel Nichols (26:23)

Yes.

Colin Cowherd (26:24)

The Thunder were the number one seed I think in the west last year. Neither of them got Christmas day games this past season. Will we see either of them on Christmas next year? Rachel?

Rachel Nichols (26:34)

I mean, look, certainly the NBA champion has to play on Christmas.

Colin Cowherd (26:36)

Has to. Are we sure.

Rachel Nichols (26:37)

And I would think that the NBA finalist plays on Christmas as well. But look, the league is programming for the grandmas that day, right? They want who, who does your whole entire family, not just you, who normally sits on the couch at 9:45 at night addicted to the NBA, but who does your whole family that's there on Christmas want to watch play. And, and I don't care how they finish as long as Steph, Steph and LeBron and those guys and KD are are still in the league. They will be playing on Christmas day because that is who the larger extended family wants.

Colin Cowherd (27:08)

So someone smart in our meeting this morning compared this OKC Thunder team. I, I'm pushing there. They're boring. I no good sound bites mid range. I don't hate them, you know, I just. I'm bored by them.

Rachel Nichols (27:21)

Okay.

Colin Cowherd (27:21)

And then someone said they're the Spurs 2.0. Just like Tim Duncan, Manu Parker. They didn't give crazy sound bites. Their coach actually gave the best stuff and they weren't flashy. There was no in your face dunks, no Anthony Edwards stuff. And I said that's not. Are they spurs 2.0? Is there the potential for that?

Rachel Nichols (27:38)

I know, I think they're pretty different. I mean this has that more feel of like that young college team that's a lot of fun without as many individual sort of huge media standouts the way Anthony Edwards is or something like that. Shay, Chelsea Alexander has a ton of personality. He has got swag for days when you see him walk into the arena. I wish he would wear some of that stuff in the press conferences after the game because he is 100% stylish. He's got the whole look going. He's just not as loud a guy and he plays in Oklahoma City. I think this is a fun team to watch and it's okay to have a finals or have a team in the finals. That is for the hoop heads. That is for the authentic basketball fans. Sometimes that's okay. It's not good for the league if that happens all the time. If there isn't a team or a player that the larger public who aren't day to day NBA fans can't relate to that. That's not good for the NBA. They need everybody to watch the finals. But once in a while it is okay to have if you know, you know, yes, star. If you know, you know, team. It makes fans feel good, right? It makes you feel like you can tell your friends, oh, you don't know this about them, but. And about the Thunder. You should get to like them, Jason, because here's what they are with the regular season and the playoffs so far this season, adding them together, they're 80 and 18. They're 80 and 18. You know what they are against the Eastern Conference? They're 29. 1. So it's great to watch this Pacers Knicks series. I hope all series go to seven. So I hope this series goes to seven. Both of these teams are really fun for me. I hope both of them win if it was possible. It's all great. They're not going to be the favorites in the finals. I'm trying to hold my time a little bit, not say they're going to get crushed, but I. It's. I celebrate your wins, boys, over the next few days because I'm not sure it's going to continue.

Colin Cowherd (29:20)

So if my wife says, hey, we got a Saturday night thing with this other couple we got, we're going to dinner and it's game two of the Finals, do I say, hey, I'm sorry, I can't go, I got to watch the Finals. Now if it was LeBron versus Curry, babe, I'm out. I'm watching the game, right? But if it's OKC Indiana, I got to be honest, I'll catch the highlights. Like, is that okay to say? Can I say that as an NBA.

Rachel Nichols (29:42)

Fan, Rachel, look, look again. You don't make more money personally as a fan. If a high market or high sort of media team is in it, you don't. It does not affect you. So it is okay to feel like, okay, this is a smaller one or this is a bigger one. It's not going to hit your bottom line or your wallet as a fan, right? So. So it's okay. We just don't have to have so much hand wringing over this. You know, if the rating is a little lower or a little higher, if you're a fan, it does not matter to you at all, right? So. So just sometimes there's going to be huge big stars and fireworks. Sometimes it's going to be more of a like authentic if you know, you know, series and players. That variety I actually think is good for the game. And maybe, you know, so you. They'll adopt some people who didn't think they would stay home on a Saturday night. But Tyrese Halliburton, man, if he's the one who's in there and he hits one of those, if in game one, he hits another, oh, my God, how did he do that? Last second, come from behind shot. You might be canceling those plans on Game two.

Colin Cowherd (30:42)

By the way, Halloween night, everybody I know had a TV on at Halloween parties for the World Series. Game one.

Rachel Nichols (30:47)

Yes.

Colin Cowherd (30:48)

Remember that ended, of course. Last one, real quick. If I said Kevin Durant winds up in Minnesota, they do some sign and trade, not read whatever, would that shock you? Anthony Edwards and Durant are friends. I mean.

Rachel Nichols (31:00)

No, it would not shock me at all. And thinks the world revolves around kd, and so it would not shock me at all. Certainly there's been a lot of reporting out there that the Wolves were hotly pursuing a Kevin Durant trade as we got to the deadline this past season. So, yeah, it does. It wouldn't surprise me at all. I mean, the irony is Kevin Durant, who is, you know, hall of Famer among hall of Famers and all of the things, multiple rings, finals mvp is going to have to wait until. Until the Giannis and Sukumpo situation settles to see where he is going to go. Because any team that is in the Kevin Durant chase is at least going to kick the tires on a Giannis chase. And I just think for, say, Houston, which is a team that we hear a lot as sort of maybe a KD destination, well, there also may be a Giannis destination. So we have to see a. Does Giannis want to leave Milwaukee? Because I'm not sending him away unless he asks for a trade. If he says he wants to leave, where is he going to go? Where are the Bucs going to send him? Again, if I'm the Bucs and I've learned from the Jrue holiday experience, I am not sending him anywhere where he could end up east. And I know they didn't send him to Boston, but nobody thought he was playing in Portland. They were just sending him to Portland as a. Okay, great. You distribute him. And then he ended up being on the team that beat them. Right. And beat them out for another title. So they are not going to send him east, they're going to send him west. Which means Kevin Durant has to wait and see what happens if Giannis ass out. If the Bucks trade him, if he goes somewhere that KD was also Looking to go. Then what happens to Kevin Durant?

Colin Cowherd (32:23)

Yeah. So he's kind of waiting. So Giannis could go Houston, San Antonio. Is there a world where he stays East? Obviously Knicks would be difficult, but what about Miami? I keep hearing that's a team to watch.

Rachel Nichols (32:35)

Certainly Miami. Miami covets him. They would give all of the things on the cupboard. It's just. Is there enough in the cupboard?

Colin Cowherd (32:45)

Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (32:45)

Right. Compared to some of what those other teams. And again, if you're the Bucs, I would think very hard about dealing him to a team in the Eastern Conference. If I'm Giannis, by the way, I would think very hard about leaving the Eastern Conference. And when he has this decision to make of do I stay in Milwaukee or not. I think there's a lot of sort of basketball people who look at the cap sheet and look at this. He can't win the next few years. What's the point? He should go somewhere else. I get it. I understand and I agree. He cannot win in Milwaukee the next few years. They do not have the resources or assets. But there is more than winning. I know that is a dirty thing to say in sports. There is. And by the way, you're not guaranteed to win anywhere else you go. Right. The Boston Celtics were set up to win and they're not even in the last two rounds of the playoffs. So you have to think about everything. Do you have a chance to win? Yes. But you also have to think about where do you play, what's your day to day life, what city are you in and what's the love and relationship with that city. And are you going to have more fun playing basketball and winning more basketball games? If you are a winning is everything guy in the Eastern Conference playing for, they can't win at all. Milwaukee Bucks than you are battling it out in the west where every night is going to be a war and you can have a winning record and still end up like battling for the plant.

Colin Cowherd (33:57)

Yeah, no great stuff. Rachel Nichols knows everything about the league. Sorry to keep you so long, Rachel.

Rachel Nichols (34:02)

I love it.

Colin Cowherd (34:02)

It was phenomenal. Let's go to Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline news.

Rachel Nichols (34:11)

All right, J. Mac, we're going to start in the NFL with Brock Purdy, who went from Mr. Irrelevant to one of the highest paid quarterbacks in football. Now, despite the fact that his bank account is much bigger than head coach Kyle Shanahan, he says that Purdy has the same amount of responsibility on Billy has always been.

Colin Cowherd (34:28)

But there's no worse thing to ask people to do something extra just because of our contract. You know, that's when you start making stuff up.

Alex Curry (34:37)

Brock's earned his contract, and he's gonna.

Colin Cowherd (34:39)

Earn what he gets going forward.

Rachel Nichols (34:42)

Let Purdy be a lesson to everybody that it's not how you start, it's how you finish.

Colin Cowherd (34:47)

Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (34:48)

Because it's insane. I. I'm. I think we're on a similar page with Brock Purdy. Like, look at his body of work, right. His first season, takes a team to an NFC championship game, gets injured. That's one of the reasons I think they lost. And then the next season, they're in the Super Bowl. Last year was a wash all around for the 49ers. Just completely wet the bed. It was not a good season for them. No playoff, obviously, but he's heading into season four. He just got paid. He just got his contract. They have an extremely easy schedule, like we talked about in the first hour, and I think he just needs to get back to where they were those first two seasons.

Colin Cowherd (35:26)

Wow. Yeah. Look at all those moves. Retain now they're trying, I think a chief's model where you really only keep one or two defenders who are. And then just rotate them in so they keep Bosa and Warner.

Rachel Nichols (35:39)

I mean, but they. They still have Kittle, they still have Iuk, they still have McCaffrey. So they still have some of their big playmakers on offense and weapons.

Colin Cowherd (35:47)

I was looking. I forgot I was looking at some Purdy stats. He was in the MVP running two years. Yes. I mean, I think Lamar ended up.

Rachel Nichols (35:53)

Getting in the super bowl two years ago. Yeah, that was in the NFC championship game his rookie season.

Colin Cowherd (35:59)

The guy's good. People could doubt him. You know, he's good seventh round pick.

Rachel Nichols (36:03)

He has the confidence like we talked about. He believes he can do it. And he's a leader in that locker room that we've heard from his teammates, his coach, everyone around him. Like, he probably made more money on his endorsement deals. I think his first couple of years.

Colin Cowherd (36:17)

Making like $800,000, which is a great amount of money. Yeah. But not to play quarterback in the NFL.

Rachel Nichols (36:22)

No. So insane. This is. I don't think it's like a prove it. You're more responsibility. It's just get back to where they were the first two seasons. All right, let's move to the Ravens, who have tried to add weapons for quarterback Lamar Jackson, most recently adding veteran wide receiver Deandre Hopkins. And head coach John Harbaugh talked about the Hopkins impact.

John Harbaugh (36:43)

First of all, I think he's a heck of a football player. You know, he's obviously, you saw him today, right. He's a gifted guy, talented guy, but he's going to be a, he's going to be a, a big body, contested catch receiver for us, you know, certainly. And he's moving great. Plus he brings all that experience. He's been in the big games before. He's made plays in the big, big games. He knows how to make plays. It's not going to be any situation. It's going to be too big for him. But, you know, I, I just thought he and Lamar looked really good today out there together and it was nice.

Rachel Nichols (37:13)

To see he's going to be a good veteran presence. I think for. Yeah, the locker room, another weapon. But I mean they still have Derrick Henry. I, I don't, I don't think that's the issue for Lamar Jackson and getting over the hump. I think he's got to get over the Patrick Mahomes hump in the playoffs. That's the issue. I mean, you don't think that's going to be an issue this year because you don't think the Chiefs are getting to the playoffs.

Colin Cowherd (37:34)

Why do you look.

Rachel Nichols (37:35)

Which I think is crazy because I'm going to keep calling you out every single time like there's no way they're.

Colin Cowherd (37:40)

Not getting to the playoffs.

Rachel Nichols (37:41)

I don't know if they're going to get to the super bowl again this year, but they're definitely getting to the playoffs.

Colin Cowherd (37:44)

So I'm looking at the Ravens depth chart.

Rachel Nichols (37:46)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (37:46)

I mean Zay Flowers is very good. He's like a top 15 receiver already.

Rachel Nichols (37:50)

They got weapons.

Colin Cowherd (37:51)

Rashad Bateman. Eh, but Hopkins is good. They were a Mark Andrews drop. Remember that?

Rachel Nichols (37:56)

Yes.

Colin Cowherd (37:56)

Sorry to bring it up, Mark. A Mark Andrews drop away from beating Buffalo.

Rachel Nichols (38:00)

Like I, they're close. It's the playoff hump. Lamar needs to get over the playoff hump.

Colin Cowherd (38:05)

But it's funny, all I hear, Alex is, well, Brock Pie, you know, he's not that good. Lamar's awesome. Jaylen Herz. Ah, he's not top five. Lamar's awesome. When is Lamar going to win a big playoff game? Just. Can you answer that? When is he going to win, deliver in a big playoff spot?

Rachel Nichols (38:22)

That's the hard part when you talk about like legacy and he's won multiple.

Colin Cowherd (38:27)

He's.

Rachel Nichols (38:28)

He has an insane regular season, but we need to see that same success in the post.

Colin Cowherd (38:32)

He's James Harden.

Rachel Nichols (38:33)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (38:34)

Without strip clubs. I mean, by the way, Lamar asking For a new contract. Lamar asking for a new contract again, bro.

Rachel Nichols (38:43)

It's just there needs to be the. The playoff success needs to match the regular season success. And insanely talented super gifted dual threat quarterback and he has the weapons. He can run. What do you want to show?

Colin Cowherd (38:57)

Get their schedule on the screen. Oh my God. I'm looking at it now. So the Ravens.

Rachel Nichols (39:02)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (39:02)

Three of their for. I'm sorry. She's. Look at this early schedule at the Bills. That's tough now. It's not gonna be cool.

Rachel Nichols (39:08)

It's gonna be tough.

Colin Cowherd (39:08)

We'll give them the Cleveland win. But look at that after that Detroit, which is one of the highest win totals in the league.

Rachel Nichols (39:13)

She's gonna be wild. Just because they're going to come out, they're going to play hard.

Colin Cowherd (39:16)

CJ's trust Stroud then Matt Stafford in a huge game out here at SoFi. Brutal. So five of their first six opponents were playoff teams from last year.

Rachel Nichols (39:25)

Yeah. Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (39:26)

That is not going to be easy.

Rachel Nichols (39:27)

And also like new and improved Bears with Ben Johnson a refresh. Caleb Williams.

Colin Cowherd (39:34)

I think Minnesota's tough Ravens are going to win the division. They should.

Rachel Nichols (39:38)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (39:39)

I'm Bengals fan over there admitting yeah it's their division. Browns are non factor. Steelers stink. But this is not going to be a cakewalk. Let's say the Ravens start two and four. Would you be surprised?

Rachel Nichols (39:51)

No. But they had a. They had a weird start to last year too. Right. They lost the first two games. It was the toe game on the line.

Colin Cowherd (39:59)

Oh yeah.

Rachel Nichols (39:59)

And then to the Raiders, right. Like it was like weird. I think they started right.

Colin Cowherd (40:05)

Remember that.

Rachel Nichols (40:06)

Yeah, you're good. And then they came back and had an incredible season. So it's again like as long as you don't dig yourself in too deep of a hole like Burrow and the Bengals did, you can fight back and you can be okay.

Colin Cowherd (40:18)

Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (40:19)

Yeah. Okay. Let's. Let's switch to the Broncos because they surprised a lot of people last season but won't sneak up on people this year. Second year quarterback Bo Nix was impressive as a rookie, but he knows still got some work to do.

Brian Schottenheimer (40:34)

Point and I got a lot to prove. Lots of shows. So you know, every day it's, it's working every day it's finding a way to get better because you don't want to get to, you know, year two or go down the road and you know, all of a sudden you got stuck and didn't get any better. So that's my focus right now is just not even worried about what people saying just internally, you know, I know I got a long way to go.

Rachel Nichols (40:55)

He's just so lucky. He has a legendary coach in Sean.

Colin Cowherd (40:59)

What are you saying?

Rachel Nichols (41:00)

Like, believes in him, drafted him and just kind of put his job on the line for him. Right. Because he was like, hey, by Russ, we're going to pay you a ton of money to go play somewhere else. Now I'm going to draft this kid who. I don't know if many people had as high on their draft selection as the Broncos did, but the way last season ended exceeded expectations. It was their first playoff berth since they won the super bowl in the 2015-2016 season.

Colin Cowherd (41:30)

Yeah.

Rachel Nichols (41:30)

With Peyton Manning. So that was. That was a huge, big rookie season for Bo Nix, and he's only going to get better. All I've heard from team reporters and everyone around the team is how confident he is. Like, he acts and carries himself like a veteran. Goes back to the conversation we had off the top of the show. Like, if you have that confidence, people, it's going to be infectious and people are going to believe you and want to follow you and take you on as a leader. And it feels like he did that in year one. And when you have a good coach, legendary coach, like, he does, like, he's in a. He's in a good position and it.

Colin Cowherd (42:07)

Helps to have that defense. They might have a top five defense in the league. And I like the draft pick the kid out of Texas, Baron, opposite, certain, like, their defense is going to carry him. And that means you don't have to do a ton. Bo just don't make mistakes. And he's good at that.

Rachel Nichols (42:21)

All you got to do.

Colin Cowherd (42:24)

All right, Alex. Story with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. Coming up. Did Brian Schottenheimer. What? Take a shot at Dak before the season even started? That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app.

Jason McIntyre (42:48)

Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something. So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

Alex Curry (43:45)

Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified. If you're an inventory specialist in a warehouse. Grainger knows you've probably faced a situation like this before. Your forklift, your facility's workhorse, is leaking hydraulic fluid and with a full schedule of shipments on the docket, this has the potential to cause a major delay of game. But you're not worried. You're prepared for this type of situation and you have an ace in the hole. Grainger Grainger offers professional grade products for every industry, from hydraulic oils and hoses. So much more, plus next day delivery. So you can be confident that you'll have the product you need on hand to fix that forklift and get it back in the game. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. If you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you work so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kid's college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, call 800-4Rocket or visit.

Colin Cowherd (47:06)

Rocket.com today Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. NMLSConsumeraccess.org Number 3030 $178,000 average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing data.

Rachel Nichols (47:19)

Tomorrow night, the stage is set. The Yankees face the Doctors in a World Series rematch. Or it's Twins versus Mariners Baseball Night in America tomorrow at 7pm Eastern. Check local listings for the game in your area. Only on fox.

Colin Cowherd (47:34)

Fired up for Dodgers, Yankees this weekend should be a good one. All right. So you know, anytime I fill in for Cowherd, I'm always like, I'm not really into the Cowboys. I know America's team, blah blah blah. But there is something interesting that went down this week. Brian Schottenheimer is the new coach of the Cowboys. He's taken over for McCarthy. Everybody thinks he's just a placeholder, right until they get the real coach, whether it's Dion or whomever. So Schottenheimer was asked this week about Joe Milton. I don't know why the hell they're asking about Joe Milton. Okay, he ain't gonna play. And Schottenheimer bizarrely turned it into Dak Prescott. Listen to what the coach had to say.

Brian Schottenheimer (48:16)

I think Dak is in the developmental phase, and that sounds crazy for guys played that much. But, like, there's things that we're tweaking with Dak. The bones of it is still very similar. You know, there's. There's going to be changes. That's part of football. That's whether there's a coaching change or not. I think it's a little bit where if you have to have your system, then I think, to me, just my opinion, not disagreeing with Zim. To me, your system should be flexible enough to where you adjust some things, but you keep some things in place, because it's our job as coaches to. We spend more time on it than the players do.

Colin Cowherd (48:50)

All right, so we got David Hellman coming on Final Hour. I'm sure he'll love to talk about that. He knows the Cowboys well. I'm just going to say this. So I started a website. It was called the Big Lead, and then I sold it, and then I. They kept me on to run it, and it went to USA Today Sports, and then another company bought it. And they come to me and they're like, hey, Jay, so how do you plan on running the website now that we've taken over? I said, well, guys, I've been running the P and L Report. You know, we're profitable. Our numbers are up. We got a great system in place. Okay. It's rolling smoothly. And they were like, yeah, we. We don't think so. And I said, well, here's all the evidence. And they're like, okay, we want to change some things, so you're out. So they fired me. I was. I was kind of stunned. I started the website. It hurt for, like, eight minutes. And then I got a new job here at Fox writing for their digital site. So it didn't sting that badly. Of course, the website went under, like, a few years later because they don't know how to run a site. But I digress. This, to me, is similar to what's going on in Dallas. If you, Brian Schottenheimer, look at Dak and say, oh, we got to tweak some things. You think Dak's the problem? Two years ago, this guy was an MVP candidate until, like, the final three weeks of the season. I think he finished second or third. Dak ain't the problem. He's got 122 career starts in Dallas. He's the least of your worries. But that's what you're talking about. Brian Schottenheimer, similar to my website. Like we had a good system, you could have just trotted it out, we would have kept it going smoothly, maybe it would still be working. But if you're going in there thinking, oh, we got to tweak some stuff with, with Dak, that's my job as a coach. You've been handed a pretty damn good team. If you guys recall, they were an 11 win team for several years last year. Obviously they, it bottomed out and there were some injuries that played a factor. But if you think Dak is the problem in Dallas, maybe you guys are going to battle the Giants for last place. Now, I don't want to rip Schottenheimer too hard, but he was the OC when I was a die hard jets fan and a guy who works here at the network. Maybe we can get him in next week. Knows Brian Schottenheimer pretty well. I'm not going to say his name, I'll text him after the show. But all I know is watching Schottenheimer with the Jets, I couldn't get over that guy quick enough. And then I saw he landed in another spot and he was gone pretty quickly. And then there was another spot. And then you start wondering, man, is this guy that good of a coach? Oh, wait, what's his last name? Oh, now I got Nepo. Nepo, baby. Sorry, Cowboys fans, this could be a rough season. I don't see a lot of optimism other than the schedule. Okay. And if we, I think we can get on the screen here. There. I know Cowherd's way out on Dallas and I don't think they're a playoff team. However, if they can get this schedule early on and get the ball rolling and get some chemistry with CD and Pickens on the outside, maybe there's a world where Dallas is more competitive than people think. Obviously the Eagles game, we could chalk that up to a likely loss. Okay, but the Giants aren't projected to be good. The Bears are.500 at best. That packers game at home is going to be winnable. My jets aren't great. Carolina's rebuilding. You start out four and two and there's some optimism. And then it's like, hey, maybe Pickens playing in a contract year, shows up and is not half ass in it and not wanting to block. And opposite Lamb, he's something. And maybe the offensive line gels quicker than expected and their star defender last year. Damn it, his name's escaping me. Maybe he's healthy before Thanksgiving and back and things are rolling, but some of the stuff coming out of Schottenheimer's mouth, like tweaking stuff with Dak Prescott. What? I don't know, Alex, maybe I'm being too harsh. But Dallas fans, this could be a brutal, brutal season if they don't get off to a good start. All right, coming up next to start the final hour. Did SGA really save the NBA? Hell, did the NBA need saving. Final hour coming up next year on the Herd.

Alex Curry (53:01)

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Colin Cowherd (55:33)

This is an I Heart podcast.