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- [00:00]
Doug Gottlieb
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- [02:41]
Ben McCollum
Now let's get this party started.
- [02:43]
Doug Gottlieb
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio Radio. What up? Welcome in this is the Herd Wherever you may be and however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd. It's the second day of the NCAA Tournament. It may be decision day for Aaron Rodgers. We're getting closer and closer to the rest of Major League Baseball season getting underway and hopefully where you are. It's as nice as the weather where I am because spring has ARR. And wow. Is it, is it nice? I know we had that midweek little mini blizzard running through the northern Midwest. Outside of that, some, some nice weather along the way. Welcome in and thanks so much for, for, for joining me. Colin is back on Monday. There are some similarities to Aaron Rodgers, as you just heard from Dan Beyer who works on with me on my show, the Doug Gottlieb show, which broadcasts daily 3 to 5 Eastern, 12, 2 Pacific Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio app. Dan reported that or said the report is out that Aaron Rodgers is visiting the Pittsburgh Steelers facility. And it's kind of interesting, right? In college basketball, the portal opens on Monday. And what and I don't know how many of you know this, but now there are lots of players that thought going into the season like this is it, this is my last year, I'm done. I mean there are six year seniors, seventh year seniors, whatever, like I'm done. And then there was a ruling with a, the quarterback of Vanderbilt who went to junior college. And I believe one of the years in junior college they didn't have a season because of COVID whatever. Anyway, he got an extra year. So now there's a blanket ruling where if you played junior college or NAIA basketball, you get an extra year. So there are lots of guys who like that. They were done. They're like, hey, you know what, I might go do this again. And they'll like Aaron Rodgers, go and have a visit and maybe, you know, they won't sign with the Pittsburgh Steelers, but they'll sign with your team. I bring it up because our next guest is the head coach of the Drake Bulldogs. He won four national championships at the Division 2 level. And I think in the summer his, one of his star shooters, Mitch Mascari, was going into the private sector like he was going to go work for a living. And well, let's just let Coach McCollum tell the story. The Drake Bulldogs win the Missouri Valley regular season, win their conference tournament championship. They're 31 and three. Then they take down Missouri yesterday. Now they get ready to take on Texas Tech, Grant McCaslin who ironically told us just last hour, they scrimmage Drake in the secret scrimmage earlier this year. And now they play each other in the second round, the NCAA tournament. And Coach McCollum joins us on Fox Sports Radio. Ben, how are you?
- [05:47]
Ben McCollum
I'm great. How about yourself, Doug?
- [05:50]
Doug Gottlieb
Not as. Not as good as you. Not with. Not with your team. Okay, so help tell this story here, right? You get the Drake job, and Mascari was already working or was going to go work. What happened?
- [06:03]
Ben McCollum
Yeah, he was gonna go work. You know, I got the Drake job, and I obviously had three coming with, and I thought Mitch was done. And he had a really good financial job in Chicago. He never ended up starting it, though. But he was going to start it, you know, within the next couple months of graduation from Northwest Missouri State. And the last day, he put his name in the portal, and I think he just did it, you know, just kind of making sure that, you know, if he wanted to, he could. He could play again. And I was like, what? He was thinking, So I called him, like, well, do you want to play? He's like, I don't know. I was just kind of thinking about it, so, well, if you want to do that, let's just do it here. And said, okay. And so he thought about it for a while, and then eventually just, you know, decided, hey, this is something that I want to do. It was a tough. It was a tough decision for him because I couldn't give him a lot of advice because I knew I had something to gain from it. And so, you know, when kids trust you with advice and you have something to gain in the process, you know, you just can't really, you know, say you should do this, but he should do it. And obviously he ended up doing it, which has been great.
- [07:18]
Doug Gottlieb
What's it like to take this group and so many of them. You mentioned you had three now, four coming with from the Division 2 level. What's it like to go through this where everybody falls back on the story? Hey, they're Division 2 guys. When you take them down. Going back to the preseason, when you went in Charleston, you beat K State, you beat Vandy. What is. What is that like for you when. When you have a group of guys that you've been with at the Division 2 level to play so well at this level?
- [07:50]
Ben McCollum
You know, it's been a blast. You know, I think the thing for me in particular, when you take this job, it is a lonely feeling when you take over a job at this level and you don't have a lot of players. Like, it's very lonely. And when you're able to take three or four of your guys, four of your guys with you and show up day one, and at least, you know, you've got guys that are, you know, essentially in your foxhole, right? And guys that are going to fight for what the program means and fight for your culture and fight for the effort and that sort of thing. And so it was a big deal to get them, obviously. It was a big deal to get everybody, though. And a lot of those guys came on just blind faith, you know, where it's like, they didn't have to come to Drake for an unproven at Division one, Division two guy. And. And they did. And so obviously it became, you know, everybody together, everybody connected, and it was fun.
- [08:58]
Doug Gottlieb
Sturts. You know, we. When we prepared for you guys, we were like, holy cow, this is the best guy we've seen all year. And granted, we're the Verizon League, but we. We played Oklahoma State, we played Ohio State, we played Providence. And I mean, he's a special player. When did you first see Sturt's play? In high school, when he was a junior.
- [09:21]
Ben McCollum
When he was a junior, we. He made the state championship, I believe, and lost in the state title game. And no one really was recruiting him at the Division 1 level, and I didn't understand why. So then we chose to recruit him at the Division 2 level. And I thought at that point, I'm like, this kid is no brainer mid major. You know, we're going to steal another one. You know, obviously now he's probably, you know, fringe NBA, and I think eventually he's probably going to be an NBA player. You know, when it's all said and done. He just had such a good demeanor. He's an elite pastor. He's an unselfish person. He's an unselfish player, you know, and he listens and wants to be good. He just. He just gets it. And so it certainly helps that he's on our team. And, you know, it also helps that we coached him for two years. You know, I coached him for two seasons prior. And so that. That really benefited us as well.
- [10:20]
Doug Gottlieb
No, no doubt. Was there any special hitch in his giddy up because it was Missouri? No, not.
- [10:29]
Ben McCollum
Not really. I think Kansas State, it was. I think it was just the NCAA tournament was probably. He was excited about, because, you know, you know, to be quite honest, it's like the, you know, I had another guard, Trevor Hudgens, for a While, well, you know, like. And everybody's like, well, why didn't K State offer him? Why didn't. Because, because he wasn't good enough for K State right away.
- [10:47]
Doug Gottlieb
Right, right.
- [10:48]
Ben McCollum
That's why they didn't.
- [10:49]
Doug Gottlieb
Right. If you, if you saw him when he was 16, you would have said he's not, not good enough. You know, I, I had that. Yeah. I don't, I don't, like, I don't know if I can, I can't say obviously guys, names, whatever. I don't know. In Portal. Not in Portal. But yeah, we, we played against a guy this year who lit us up at the Division 2 level and they were, you know, after the game, like, why didn't you offer him? Like, well, I wasn't here and when I got here he wasn't in the portals. Like, I don't know. Like, we do ask things of people which are it. Which are unfair. Do you. Does. I think everyone knows that if you can coach at the Division 2 level, you can coach Division 1 level. Bruce Pearls proved that. You proved that others have as well. Does this change in your mind the perception of recruiting Division 2 players to transfer up the Division 1 level?
- [11:36]
Ben McCollum
No, it probably does, but that's because people don't think for themselves times. You know, I mean, it's, it's like, oh, D2 players are great. Let's everybody go get 25 D2 players. Because there's a recency bias already to it. And, and so it's, it. I don't know. Like, I think too often, you know, in college coaching and even hiring coaches and stuff like that, there becomes a, a bias to, you know, all of a sudden because a D2 guy has success, every D2 guy can have success. And that's just not, that's just not the case. Or you know, if you, you know, an AI guy can be just get. A juco guy can be just as good and same concept for players. Like, just because some Division 2 guys have success doesn't necessarily mean that every D2 guy is going to have success, but it does mean that you can find good players anywhere and you just kind of have to trust your own eye on some of those things. And, and, and, and in today's society it's, it's a lot more difficult to trust your own eye just because social media and all those different things that are like, you know, even when, when we took this job and you know, there's probably 5050 split where, you know, 50% of fans would be like, and I Can't wait to watch these guys. I think they'll be great. And then there's another 50% that was like, I can't believe they're taking D2 guys and they're going to be awful. And so you just can't listen to that noise. You just got to trust yourself. And that's, that's what we did. And you. We got a little lucky, too. You know, where just those guys showed up and competed. And it was a heck of a run and still continues to be that.
- [13:11]
Doug Gottlieb
Ben McCollum Head Coach, Drake the Bulldogs are 31 and 3 and they take on Texas Tech, the Red Raiders, who they faced in a secret scrimmage. How much can you take from the secret scrimmage in getting ready for a second round NCAA tournament game?
- [13:27]
Ben McCollum
Man, I don't know. I don't know because they're, I mean, they're just so well coached, you know, I just think they're, you know, they've got, obviously hired one of my other. He's got, he's got Grant, who's one of my close friends. He's got Linder, who I talk to about every day. He's got Luke, who actually played for me, Luke Barnwell and Choki Morikobu, who's AC Who's. So it's like their whole staff is really close to me. And so I'm not sure how much you can take from that. You know, I don't think either of us really totally prepared for it, if that makes sense. Meaning, you know, those scrimmages, it's better that I think a lot of people try to win those scrimmages. Obviously, you always want to win everything you do, but more importantly, you want to, you want to see what works, see what lineups work. And so I'm not sure how much you can actually take from that scrimmage.
- [14:21]
Doug Gottlieb
Yes, I wish you would have told me that I tried to win my scrimmage and then I was like, at the end of, it's like, why did I try to win my scrimmage? Like, well, I was trying to show, you know, a group of, of young guys, build them confidence in what we were doing and have one more point than an opponent. But again, these are just learning lessons that you only learn by, but by doing. Ben McCollum joining us, who is the Drake. Drake head coach. Okay, so you went from turning down lots of jobs that didn't fit. Why did Drake fit?
- [14:54]
Ben McCollum
A couple reasons. One, I really liked the athletic director, Brian Harden. I thought he had a Good vision for the program. 2. It was, you know, close to home. I'm probably, you know, a Midwest guy. Doesn't mean I, you know, would never live in any other place in the country. But, you know, initially, just that first jump, I wanted to make sure that it was also beneficial for my family to get closer to family. And then, you know, it was just the right time. You know, I started to notice that. I started to notice that I was. I wasn't choosing to come back to Northwest. I was choosing to not take jobs. And I think when you start to trend that direction, I think that probably gives you the indication that it's probably time to come out of your comfort zone a little bit and, you know, just see what you could do. And. And then, you know, they were super patient in the process. Drake was. You know, I think that a lot of these schools, when they hire, which I understand, you know, they. They offer you the job the next day, you gotta decide. And. And it's not really the nature of me. And so it's my greatest strength and greatest weakness is my patience. But, you know, sometimes it's just. It is what it is. And this one just worked out perfect. And, you know, I got put in a good position and. And very thankful for it.
- [16:19]
Doug Gottlieb
Okay, so with that, though, now comes added speculation. There's other jobs available. How do you handle that? Right. Will Wade is like, hey, I'm taking NC State. Like, that's. That's happening. And people are like, whoa, wait, that's. That's weird. How are you handling the now speculation about what could be next for you?
- [16:36]
Ben McCollum
Yeah, you know, the same way I've done it for years. I really try not to. My personality doesn't allow me to have a divided heart, if that makes sense. And so I think some people can. Can multitask. And do you know what? Will Wade is take a job and still focus on his team and still focus on everything else associated with it. I'm just different in a personality. It doesn't make me right, doesn't make him wrong. It's just how I do things. And so my attention and my kids know that my attention is. Is on them and making sure that, you know, we're at our best and that I fight for what they are. And again, has it hurt me in the past? It absolutely has, but it's helped me create a level of loyalty with the people surrounding the program, because it's like, I know. I know where his heart is at. Like, I know where it's at. You know, regardless of, you know, all these things and speculation and stuff like that is. Is, you know, I'm making sure that I fight for Drake and fight for these kids and fight for these players. And, you know, that's what I've done for seven, eight years and approved it, and I'll continue to do it the same way.
- [17:51]
Doug Gottlieb
All right, most important question is, when did you start the white shirt, solid tie?
- [17:55]
Ben McCollum
Look, a long time ago, I probably. Gosh, I bet 2016, probably somewhere in that range because I know I had it 2017, because that was our first national championship, probably 2016, maybe even earlier. You know, I. I used to wear just different colored ties, different color shirts, you know, different everything. And then I was like, man, I don't even want to make a decision today because we got to make 10,000 decisions in the game.
- [18:24]
Doug Gottlieb
Yeah.
- [18:25]
Ben McCollum
So. So I was just, you know, I was. I always was fascinated by Billy Donovan and. And they just wore a white shirt, so I just wore a white shirt. And you don't.
- [18:34]
Doug Gottlieb
Okay, so then the, Then the follow up is. Is that the same blue tie or there multiple blue ties? That, that, that. That look alike?
- [18:43]
Ben McCollum
It is the same blue tie. Always the same blue tie. Yep. It stays the same the whole year, just like it used to.
- [18:50]
Doug Gottlieb
How do you not get a spot? How do you not get anything on it? I get coffee on it. I get something.
- [18:54]
Ben McCollum
Yeah, it's. It's. It's used now. It's. It's used. Abused, my man. That's the beauty of it. What do you think our team is? We're a bunch of scrappers now. That's what we do. So it's not. There's.
- [19:06]
Doug Gottlieb
There's no. There's no backup tie. There's. There's no backup tie?
- [19:10]
Ben McCollum
No, no. Heck, no. No backup players either. No, we. We just. Tie is who we are as a team, man. We're not perfect and we're, you know, sometimes we're bruised and battered, but we're always fighting, so that's pretty good. I just made that up, so. But no, it's. It's the same tie all the time.
- [19:32]
Doug Gottlieb
Well, listen, I. I appreciate that. When I got. We got. We had a check for my coaching clinic that I was able to watch over on the other sideline. I had no doubt of what would happen yesterday. I'm really interested in what happens tomorrow. We wish you the best of luck and we'll. We'll talk soon. Thanks so much for joining us.
- [19:47]
Ben McCollum
Yes. Thanks for having me on.
- [19:49]
Doug Gottlieb
I appreciate it. It's Ben McCollum. He's the head coach of the Drake Bulldogs. He's won four national titles at the Division 2 level. In his first year at Division 1, they are 31 and 3 on the year. Coming up next in the Herd, I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. Guess who took another shot at the Pittsburgh Steelers? You'll find out next in the herd.
- [20:10]
Dan Beyer
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Doug Gottlieb
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Doug Gottlieb
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- [21:27]
Ryan Music
Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
- [21:34]
Doug Gottlieb
Alright, sweetie pie, buckle up. Good job.
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Ryan Music
Or ring the bell on their bike.
- [21:39]
Doug Gottlieb
Okay kid, give it a try.
- [21:41]
Dan Beyer
Nice.
- [21:42]
Doug Gottlieb
Or remember their elbow pads.
- [21:45]
Ben McCollum
Knees too.
- [21:45]
Doug Gottlieb
Okay. Yep, there you go.
- [21:48]
Ryan Music
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- [21:53]
Doug Gottlieb
Content they can see.
- [21:55]
Dan Beyer
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- [22:52]
Doug Gottlieb
Doug Gottlieb in for Collins. I heard fox Sports Radio iheartradio app 2 Steelers stories @ the same time Jerry Dulock, who covers the team, reports that Aaron Rodgers is visiting the Steelers training facility. As we told you yesterday, that tracks in timing and location. So Najee Harris is now a former Steeler, right? Najee Harris said this about the Pittsburgh Steelers offense when he was a Steeler. It was just a team where, you know, we lost Ben, we lost a lot of o line. We just didn't know anything on offense really. We didn't have identity. We had a young guy coming out quarterback. You know, I was young, the team was young and I really didn't have nobody to almost learn from the offensive side. I think the veteran guy on that team was like a two, three year vet and that's nothing. You know, I mean, like he's still learning himself and I'm coming in and you know, I'm just trying to look for people to, to, you know, pick their brain off of and it was just defensive guys. So I'll go to the defensive guys to talk to them but you know, it wouldn't be too much. They could tell me about an offensive thing, you know, I mean, so it was interesting years there. I'll just say that. Yeah, I mean, so he, they were too young and didn't have an offensive culture. And look, I if you're Aaron Rodgers, like that's got a that's actually has to, I think make you even more drawn to Pittsburgh. Like how could that be be more drawn to Pittsburgh? Like what Aaron doesn't work well with is somebody else's system and somebody else's kind of rigidity. I don't think he will deal well with rigid people. Does that mean that it's going to be Aaron's way or the highway? No. Again, this is just a guess, but the difference between the Steelers and the jets and their approaches, the jets made it clear and made it public that if Aaron wanted to come back, he would have to give up, you know, the McAfee thing. Now, I don't know for a fact if Tomlin will make him give up the McAfee thing, but my guess is they will. But they'll never make it public, right? There'll be some sort of, like, hey, look, you can go pop on here a couple times in the off season if you take the. Take the gig here. But, like, what are we doing Tuesday? It's your day off. Like, get away from it. Get away from the media. Like, if you want to be here for a year, let's just try and go in a football game. Let's just try and go one football game. And no one understands this more than me, right? I host a national radio show. I coach a college basketball team. We didn't play well in year one. We weren't good enough in year one. Nobody cares about injuries or having too many younger players or any of that. Getting the job two months after the portal had opened, like, no, nobody actually cares. So optics do. But in this particular case, if it's one last year and you've done the Two years of McAfee show and football, and wouldn't it be interesting, right? Because didn't we have Cam Hayward and he said, do you want to be a Pittsburgh Steeler? Not have. Be a Pittsburgh Steeler? That did happen, right? We did play that. He said that on his own podcast. Point is, he said on his own podcast, people only want to pick out these things when something's not going well. When it goes well, nobody says, like, oh, hey, by the way, he's got a podcast. Does Cam Heyward have to give up his podcast? Right, here's. Here's Cam Hayward two days ago. Three days ago.
- [26:31]
Ben McCollum
I ain't doing that Darkness Darkness treat Retreat.
- [26:34]
Doug Gottlieb
I don't mean any of that crap.
- [26:36]
Ben McCollum
Like, either you want to be a.
- [26:37]
Doug Gottlieb
Pittsburgh Steeler or you don't. That's. That's simple. That's the pitch. If you want me to recruit, that's the recruiting pitch, you know, Pittsburgh Steelers. If you want to be part of it, so be it. If you don't, no, no skin on my back. Yeah, but the. The point of it is not just like, hey, you know, water, get off the pot. That's part of it. But it's also. Doesn't he have a Daniel podcast of his own? Don't have a podcast of his own. I don't think that Najee Harris is saying anything that most people didn't know they were a Rudderless ship. You can't have that much youth, that much inexperience, even if there are guys who athletically are past their prime. We just talked to. We just Talked to Ben McCollum, who's the head coach at Drake. Right. What did he say about the players that he has? Like, hey, I had to have some guys. He's got older guys. Benjamin Sturts, Ben, search who's their best player. This is his third year playing for his coach. So you don't have to. Do you have to go and teach everything? Sure, but you don't have to teach everything two or three or four times. You don't have to. How people act and react when adversity strikes, when lineups get screwed up, when whatever happens. You know, so much of coaching is about teaching guys to push through adversity, but specifically how you view them pushing through adversity collectively. You can't do that when you have all young guys when they've never experienced that before. They can't draw on both positive and negative memories of the past interesting days in Pittsburgh, and it'll be interesting to see if Aaron Rodgers can write that ship and give them an offensive identity. Let's get to some of the other news. Here's Ryan Music with the news.
- [28:34]
Ben McCollum
No, no, no.
- [28:36]
Doug Gottlieb
Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.
- [28:45]
Ryan Music
All right, Doug, on that quick point there. Quick point here on that Aaron Rodgers news. So, as you pointed out, Jerry Dulac, covering the Steelers for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, initially put out the report about Rodgers. He has followed that up with a bit more information. He has. He has posted on his Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it. Sources have cautioned a commitment from Rogers may not come today, if at all. Just visiting with coach Mike Tomlin and general manager Omar Khan.
- [29:17]
Doug Gottlieb
Hey, I'm just hanging out. Hey, man, I was in Pittsburgh and.
- [29:21]
Ryan Music
I. I happened to find myself in the neighborhood.
- [29:24]
Doug Gottlieb
Yeah.
- [29:25]
Ryan Music
And was just wondering what you guys were up to.
- [29:28]
Doug Gottlieb
What is it? Is Pitt. University of Pittsburgh, correct? It's a. The Tower of Learning. The Tower of Learning or Tower of Not. What is it? They have this big tower. I think it's called the Tower of Learning. I don't know. Somebody will. Somebody will hit us up on the.
- [29:41]
Ryan Music
Gram or Cathedral of Learning. Oh, sorry. No, that's.
- [29:45]
Doug Gottlieb
I don't think it's a Cathedral of Learning.
- [29:47]
Ryan Music
University of Pittsburgh Cathedral of Learning. Is that what it is on a University of Pittsburgh website? Cathedral of Learning? Cathedral of Learning, if this is what you're referring to.
- [29:58]
Doug Gottlieb
Yeah, it's a big, big building on campus. I was just, I love the, you know, he's a big architecture guy. I love the architecture of cathedral learning. And I just happened upon your practice facility and I just thought, hey, what if, why not? I'll just stop by.
- [30:13]
Ryan Music
Hey, how about you? How about me? We just chat. All right, so that's the latest. Aaron Rodgers is in Pittsburgh. Aaron Rodgers is meeting with people of the Pittsburgh Steelers organization. No decision considered imminent. May not get a decision at all. So the cloud of murky information surrounding Aaron Rodgers continues. All right, a quick update also as well. Let's talk some March Madness. Of course. We have halftime, Baylor five point lead over Mississippi State. Halftime. Robert Morris keeping it close with number two seed Alabama 40 to 36. Those two games are at half and we just tipped off 14 seed Lipscomb taking on three seed Iowa State.
- [31:01]
Doug Gottlieb
Bobby Moe. We lost to Bobby Moe twice. We're up 17 the first time we played them down three starters and then they had a 28 nothing run. I was like, man, what, what just happened? Yeah, that, I mean, if you saw, I'd be like, I. I don't know.
- [31:17]
Ryan Music
Is that a life comes at you quick kind of thing or.
- [31:19]
Doug Gottlieb
It, it did. It did.
- [31:21]
Ryan Music
Okay.
- [31:21]
Doug Gottlieb
I mean, we missed, I think seven shots at the rim during that time and just snowballed on you like what, what are we doing here?
- [31:30]
Ryan Music
Okay, well, you know, listen, no need, no need to pick up the scabs. Let's move on from it.
- [31:34]
Doug Gottlieb
We pick, we, we've. Scabs will continue to be picked.
- [31:36]
Ryan Music
Okay, listen, hey, you taking that upon yourself, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. All right, here we go. Let's hit on some news items here. NFL football. The consensus. Cam Ward's gonna be the first quarterback taken in the upcoming NFL draft. A lot of questions about where Shadour Sanders will end up landing. Well, what Sanders does know is that his pocket passer skill set will set him up for success in the future.
- [32:02]
Ben McCollum
I mean, it always worked in the league. Look at the history of the league. Not everybody was, you know, big time runners back then, back in the day. So you got the greatest quarterback ever, Tom Brady. He ain't run too much. So I feel like the, the best thing for me is to play from the pocket and that's what I'm most comfortable in now. The difference is I'm able to adjust to my team. So if I need to be, if I need to, you know, take different type of drops, if I need to be able to get A little bit more active, then I'm able to do that and adjust my game.
- [32:32]
Ryan Music
I mean, he brings up a great point. You know, we love the big time dynamic quarterbacks, but it sort of feels like, I mean, Jalen Hurts is about the only true dual threat quarterback that we've seen win a Super bowl in recent memory. Obviously, Cam Newton got close and, you know, today's modern quarterback, like a Patrick Mahomes is pocket passer who can run when the team necessitates. But these dual threat quarterbacks that we become enamored with haven't necessarily been the ones winning Lombardi trophies.
- [33:07]
Doug Gottlieb
Oh, I totally agree with that. He's absolutely right. What's interesting about Jador Sanders is if he wasn't Deion Sanders kid, you wouldn't think he's a great athlete. And he's not sure. Yeah, yeah, he's, he's kind of Ben Roethlisberger, like, in that he, he will, he'll take a hit, he'll hold the ball longer and, you know, maybe a little bit too long. And Ben was a, was a big old, you know, I mean, Ben was a tight end up until his senior year in high school. So Shador Sanders is a really good athlete. He's just an elite level runner. It's just, I think people think, well, he's Dion's son, so he's got to be super fast. And that's not actually the case. Like, is he faster than like, you and me? Like, yeah, he's a great athlete, he's a quarterback. But is he, Is he Lamar Jackson? Is he. You know. No. Yeah.
- [33:58]
Ryan Music
And I think ultimately that's sort of.
- [34:00]
Doug Gottlieb
And you don't have to be.
- [34:01]
Ryan Music
Sure.
- [34:01]
Doug Gottlieb
You don't have to be. That's the knockout. Lamar, right? Lamar has improved from the pocket. Is he good enough in the pocket to win it off?
- [34:08]
Ryan Music
Right. And I think that's ultimately sort of why a lot of the consensus as people are landing on Cam Ward right now is his raw skill set and athleticism has a higher end than what we've seen from Shador and to what Shador was saying there in that interview on the NFL Network is he's like, hey, I mean, I am athletic, but I just get it done from the pocket. So certainly going to be interesting to see exactly where Shador falls. A lot of range between, hey, he could be taken second to. Oh, no, he's in a free fall down the draft board. We'll stay in the NFL here, Doug. The Eagles are keeping their all pro linebacker, Zach Bond, resigning The breakout star after their super bowl win. Well, Bond after getting his new deal to stay in Philadelphia, he thinks they're just getting started. Here's what he had to say. I think about what we did in year one with so many new pieces, coaches and players included, I'm really excited to build on what we did last year. You see this Eagles team as a sort of a potential back to back type of championship team.
- [35:09]
Doug Gottlieb
I don't know. You know, they've lost a lot of pieces now. Last time they lost pieces, but they also lost both coordinators. That not the case this year? Well, they did. They lost their offense coordinator. Right. He went to the, went to the Northern Saints.
- [35:23]
Ryan Music
That is correct.
- [35:25]
Doug Gottlieb
So. But defense coordinator remains the same. The answer is no. Only in that if we use history as our guide. Sure, of course we use history as our guide. Do they have, did they, did they draft for this and they have a lot of young pieces. Yes. They still have Saquon Barkley. Absolutely. I'll also point this out. Okay. The argument against signing a Saquon Barkley to a long term deal with the Giants or any of these other running backs wasn't about year one. It was about years two and especially year three, that running backs are like pick your favorite foreign car. Are they always in the shop? And you know, Philadelphia didn't have to, but they did double down on Saquon Barkley because he performed at such a great level, which I think will change the running back market towards the future. But that still doesn't answer the question, can guys can a running back like that stay healthy after having a essentially a 2000 yard season and then a Super bowl winning postseason?
- [36:29]
Ryan Music
Sure. I mean, look, it's obviously well documented now what the 49ers have been dealing with with Christian McCaffrey. And you know, he's built a little different than Saquon. Saquon, I guess you would say is obviously a little bit of a thicker running back. Although they do have a lot of some, not a lot of the same skill set, but some definite overlap. And you know, unfortunately for Christian, the story of his career was early in Carolina. He had those back to back seasons where he was just an absolute workhorse and super productive. And then he was injured for two seasons after that and then moved, got traded to 49ers, has had two productive or had like a half season of production in San Francisco and then had that huge season where they went to the super bowl and then he was hurt again this entire year. So to your point, there is Always going to be concerns outside of like a Derrick Henry who seemingly, despite how many times you give him the rock, he's just going to somehow get stronger. Some type of like aberration. But yeah, definitely some concerns that if you give a guy that many touches year after year, at some point you might expect that there could be some injury regression coming. We'll wrap up with this, Doug. Former Panthers and Commanders head coach Ron Rivera has a new gig. He is being named the general manager for Cal football. Welcome to College Sports in 2025. This also comes on the heels of Stanford making Andrew Luck their GM of the football team and Steph Curry taking on a role with his alma mater at Davidson. So I'm just kind of curious to run this by you. As a current head coach in college athletics. What do you make of these programs bringing in sort of general managers and obviously sort of a top down structure resembling that of the pro models we've seen?
- [38:13]
Doug Gottlieb
Well, it's, I think it's needed because it's a lot. I mean, I'm, I'm technically the general manager and head coach of the program. So between nil budgeting, you know, actually have to do it all. We just don't have the resources for that. And obviously you don't need to pay Steph Curry for it. I think it's, it's, it's honestly fascinating. Now Agent Wojnowski actually does the work with Saint Bonaventure. He helps them in recruiting, identifying players and in raising money in a budget, all that other stuff. I don't think Steph's a figurehead, but I think he's a figurehead. Meaning, like he didn't have time to be watching kids, right? Yeah, he does. He's got his own camp. Obviously he has the Under Armour connection and you know, I'm not sure if they're paying him or if he's donating or how it's all working. I, I also just think it, it's a great reminder to people like, what year did Steph Curry play at Davidson? Want to take guess what years, what year did he finish playing at Davidson?
- [39:23]
Ryan Music
Fit. Wasn't it like 2010 or something like that?
- [39:26]
Doug Gottlieb
Or 2009, you know, I mean, Tui, do you know what, what, what year? Because remember the NCAA tournament year was his sophomore year. His junior year, they made the nit, they didn't make it. And then he left early for the NBA and some idiot went on ESPN and was like, yeah, I don't know if he's ready yet. Oh, that idiot was me. Anyway, the point is that Steph Curry played at Davidson a long time ago. A long time ago. He. You're talking about a guy who is college stats, right? 2009 was the last year. This is 2025. So as much as we all know, he played Davidson. I remember when they beat Georgetown, the tournament. I remember all that stuff. Current college kids, not as much. And so this, I do think, helps reinvigorate. I know a couple. I know a player who went in the transfer portal yesterday. I asked somebody about, hey, what about this guy? And they're like, yeah, Steph Curry's already gonna. He went to Steph Curry's camps. He's all about Steph Curry's going to dates. So I think that's really a little bit more what this particular one is about 2009. Don't you feel old? That's Ryan Music with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. What were you doing in 2009, Ryan? Just make me feel really, really old in 2009.
- [41:05]
Ryan Music
If you would like to know, that was my senior year of high school.
- [41:08]
Doug Gottlieb
There you go.
- [41:09]
Dan Beyer
Be sure to catch live editions of.
- [41:11]
Doug Gottlieb
The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app.
- [41:18]
Ryan Music
Hey, it's Steve Covin and I'm Rich.
- [41:20]
Dan Beyer
Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich.
- [41:22]
Ryan Music
On Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app.
- [41:30]
Dan Beyer
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich?
- [41:32]
Doug Gottlieb
We talk about everything.
- [41:33]
Ryan Music
Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.
- [41:36]
Doug Gottlieb
We have a lot of fun talking.
- [41:37]
Ryan Music
About the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.
- [41:45]
Dan Beyer
And the fact that we've been friends.
- [41:46]
Ryan Music
For the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right?
- [41:50]
Dan Beyer
So check us out.
- [41:51]
Ryan Music
We like to get you involved, too.
- [41:52]
Dan Beyer
Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say.
- [41:55]
Ryan Music
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth.
- [42:00]
Dan Beyer
Be sure to check out Covino Enrich.
- [42:01]
Ryan Music
Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific.
- [42:07]
Doug Gottlieb
And if you miss any of the.
- [42:07]
Ryan Music
Live show, just search Covino Enrich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.
- [42:15]
Doug Gottlieb
It's the last game of the season. And with amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express.
- [42:27]
Dan Beyer
Terms apply.
- [42:28]
Doug Gottlieb
Learn more@americanexpress.com with Amex, you can count.
- [42:31]
Dan Beyer
On T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and expires in six months.
- [43:06]
Doug Gottlieb
Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they've got the right gear for writing, knee pads, shack and helmet.
- [43:14]
Ben McCollum
Done.
- [43:15]
Doug Gottlieb
See you dad. New Instagram Teen accounts, automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.
- [43:21]
Dan Beyer
Hi everybody. This message is brought to you by the official Whiskey of the Heard with Colin Coward podcast. Green River Whiskey. As you know, we've been having some fun getting to know Green River Whiskey. And let me tell you, there's a ton of incredible stories to be told in its 140 year history. How's this? For example, Green River Whiskey was once the most advertised whiskey in the world, but just now they've launched their first advertising campaign in more than 100 years. You see, it seems the team from Green river in reviving the whiskey have accidentally also revived its resident ghost. And he's quite a character spending his days reminding us to keep it simple, focus on the quality, and have a little fun along the way. So if you want to see the ghost of Green river come to life, check out at GreenRiver Whiskey on their YouTube channel or head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's to Green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. Product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly.
- [44:17]
Doug Gottlieb
Doug Gottlieb for Collins I heard Fox Sports Radio iheartradio app so last night the Lakers basically played their bench and you know, like almost like quasi G league roster again. What what happens when you state that is instinctively people go oh can I do the Cullen? You're a hater. Like let's not call him stuck a Doug, you're a hater. Okay, let Me, let me read you their starting lineup. Okay. Gabe Vincent was technically their backup point guard. I know he started the Miami Heat team that went to the NBA Finals, but let's just be honest. Jordan Goodwin, Jackson, Hayes, Dalton, Connect and Markief Morris. Up bench was Cam Reddish, Trey Jameson, Shake Milton, Alex Len and Bronny James. That was the entirety of players. The only Laker who dressed that did not play was Christian Coloco who of course is played at Arizona. The young big guy. So it was or you know, if you want to do in Major League Baseball terms a bullpen day. It's bullpen day. So Bronnie had 17 points last night, shot the ball well two or four from three seven to 10 from the line seven attempt from, from overall hit a free throw, ends up with 17, five, three, did have four assists, was a minus 36. But hey, shake Milton who's, you know, started for the Philadelphia 76ers, he was a minus 37. So he wasn't the only one that was a big minus. They got beat 118 to 89. So kind of like empty calories. Those are empty stats, but let's not kid ourselves. Those are far and away his best stats and his the most minutes that he's played in the NBA. So he's trended upwards in the G League and that's his first trend upwards in the NBA. Here's his head coach, JJ Redick after the game.
- [46:27]
Ben McCollum
You know, we've obviously monitored him in the G and feel like he's you know, in those sort of end game situations when he's gotten a chance to play with us. He's been, he's been really good. So not surprised by tonight. I think his confidence is growing.
- [46:48]
Doug Gottlieb
His.
- [46:49]
Ben McCollum
You mentioned the word comfort. That's, that's certainly there for him. And I think the next step is, is just you know, becoming like a, like an elite conditioned athlete. Because when he does that with, with his physical tools and just his like burst and, and you know we think he's going to be an above average to really good NBA shooter.
- [47:22]
Doug Gottlieb
Yeah, that, that, that doesn't sound it. There's a bunch of compliments there, but there was also something there that I heard that didn't sound like a compliment. When he gets into elite physical condition, that's a very, very nice political way of saying hey, imagine if he was in shape. Now in fairness to Bronnie played 30 minutes last night, I mean he ain't never played 30 minutes or come close in the NBA. And when you play 30 minutes and you're not used to playing that much, you're gonna be gassed. But when your coach says, hey, when you get into elite physical condition. Now the other part, he's like, well, he's been good for us. When. When was that moment in endgame when he's been good for you? You know, he played 16 minutes, 15 minutes and 12 minutes. That's the most he's played all year. And up until yesterday, he had the second lowest field goal percentage of anybody in the NBA. It's an important distinction. It's like when people say, oh, they said Jalen hurts couldn't throw or Lamar Jackson couldn't throw. Like, nobody said they can't. It's not like they. So like Tim Tebow that used to throw ground balls to people non spirals, was he trying to spike that or was he trying to throw that one for a first down? That's not what we're saying. What you're saying, you're comparing salt like Shador Sanderson. You're comparing. All right, can you throw like Mahomes? Can you throw like her cousins? Can you throw like Aaron Rodgers? Can you throw like Josh Allen Key throw like, you know, it's a. This. The. The eval is quite different. But when you say, hey, he's got it. When he get. Once he gets into elite physical condition, that means he's not. He's not in great shape. I would push back on JJ on whether or not he can be an elite shooter when he's never been elite shooter at any level ever before. So, no, I'm not going to take back my eval. But, yes, it's pretty obvious that he still has confidence and he's improving. That's the halfway on me chat. Can older coaches still hang? Let's discuss next in the herd.
- [49:33]
Dan Beyer
This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid.
- [49:48]
Doug Gottlieb
I don't know. This.
- [49:49]
Dan Beyer
This commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following oupwithhate.
- [50:05]
Doug Gottlieb
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dressing. Dressing.
- [50:37]
Ryan Music
Oh, French dressing.
- [50:39]
Doug Gottlieb
Exactly. Oh, that's good. I'm A.J. jacobs, and my current obsession is puzzles, and that has given birth to my podcast the Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly.
- [50:52]
Ben McCollum
This is fun.
- [50:53]
Doug Gottlieb
You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now, women who were murderers and scammers, but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers, and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, gory details of horrific acts. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice, and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.