Hour 2 - The top 10 Players in the NBA Finals

Summary

Summary of "Hour 2 - The Top 10 Players in the NBA Finals"

Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hosts: Jason McIntyre (filling in for Colin Cowherd) and Alex Curry
Guest: Eddie House (Boston Celtics legend)
Release Date: June 5, 2025

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Introduction

At [02:37], Jason McIntyre welcomes listeners back to "The Herd" on Fox Sports Radio, joined by Alex Curry. The hosts briefly touch upon upcoming sports events, including game one of the NBA Finals, the Stanley Cup, and the French Open finals. They also discuss personal interests, such as pickleball and ping pong, setting an engaging tone for the episode.

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Top 10 Players in the NBA Finals

Jason McIntyre presents his countdown of the top 10 players in the NBA Finals, providing detailed reasoning for each selection.

Number 10: Ben Matherick ([05:24])

Ben Matherick is highlighted as a valuable bench player known for scoring in bunches, exemplified by his 20-point game against the Knicks. Despite not being a prolific three-point shooter, his athleticism and ability to get to the rim make him indispensable.

"Ben Matherick is great at getting to the Tim." — Jason McIntyre [05:24]

Number 9: Alex Caruso ([05:30])

Alex Caruso is praised for his defensive capabilities, holding the second-best defensive rating in the playoffs. His performance guarding Nikola Jokic in Game 7 is specifically noted as a pivotal factor.

"He guarded Jokic against Edvin... Caruso was excellent." — Jason McIntyre [05:30]

Number 8: Aaron Neesmith ([05:48])

Aaron Neesmith's impact is underscored by his exceptional shooting in Game 1 against the Knicks, where he hit eight of nine three-pointers. Jason speculates that the Celtics might regret cutting him.

"He single-handedly brought back the Pacers in Game One against the Knicks." — Jason McIntyre [05:48]

Number 7: Cainston Wallace ([06:11])

Cainston Wallace is recognized for his defensive prowess, boasting the best defensive rating in the playoffs. His potential to become the third-best player on a championship team within two years is emphasized.

"Cainston Wallace is a name to watch." — Jason McIntyre [06:11]

Number 6: Miles Turner ([07:12])

Miles Turner is selected for his dual role as a rim protector and three-point shooter. Despite a challenging series against the Knicks, Jason remains confident in Turner's ability to contribute significantly in upcoming games.

"Miles Turner, great rim protector and three-point shooter." — Jason McIntyre [07:12]

Number 5: Chet Holmgren ([07:42])

Chet Holmgren is acknowledged for his remarkable playoff performances, including multiple games with over 20 points and being second in blocks during the playoffs. His youth and growth potential are highlighted.

"Chet Holmgren is still super young... he's starting to come into his own." — Jason McIntyre [07:42]

Number 4: Jalen Williams ([08:58])

Jalen Williams is commended for his consistent scoring in the playoffs, particularly when he scores 17 or more points, contributing to the Thunder's impressive 11-1 record in those scenarios.

"Somebody's got to slow J Dub because if he goes off, usually OKC wins." — Jason McIntyre [08:58]

Number 3: Pascal Siakam ([09:09])

Pascal Siakam, the Eastern Conference MVP, is celebrated for his scoring ability and defensive efforts, especially against Karl-Anthony Towns. His leadership and past championship experience with the Raptors add to his value.

"Siakam just torched him [Towns] and he was just up and down the court." — Jason McIntyre [09:09]

Number 2: Tyrese Halliburton ([09:11])

Tyrese Halliburton is lauded for his clutch performances, including a buzzer-beater in Game 1 against the Knicks. Jason expresses high confidence in Halliburton's all-around game and leadership qualities.

"Tyrese Halliburton is an excellent basketball player, does everything well." — Jason McIntyre [09:11]

Number 1: SGA ([09:43])

SGA is crowned as the top player, deemed the Finals MVP candidate. His comprehensive skill set and pivotal contributions are seen as crucial for leading his team to the championship.

"SGA, number one. All right, without further ado." — Jason McIntyre [09:43]

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Guest Segment: Eddie House's Perspectives

Eddie House joins the discussion, offering alternative viewpoints and critiques of Jason's top 10 list.

Disagreements and Alternative Rankings ([10:40])

Eddie challenges the placement of certain players, suggesting that Miles Turner deserves a higher rank and that Cainston Wallace should be placed lower. He proposes including Indiana's teammates Nemhard and T.J. McConnell as essential contributors.

"I got to put him down to 10. I probably would take Benedict Matheran off." — Eddie House [10:40]

Super Teams Debate ([15:21])

The conversation shifts to the concept of "Super Teams." Jason expresses a preference for super teams, while Eddie differentiates between homegrown success (like OKC and Indiana) and teams built through high-earning signings, stating that both approaches are acceptable as long as the gameplay remains strong.

"If it's homegrown or if it's because the GM is just super smart... I don't mind either way." — Eddie House [16:55]

Player Comparisons and Future Projections ([20:50])

Eddie praises SGA's ability to draw fouls and his mid-range game, while downplaying comparisons to legends like Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. They also discuss Jokic as the top player and debate the future focus around Giannis and SGA.

"He just knows how to use his defender, which tells me that he watches film." — Eddie House [20:51]

Jalen Brunson and Knicks Organization ([49:37])

Later in the episode, the discussion turns to the New York Knicks' internal issues, specifically regarding Jalen Brunson's father, Rick Brunson's influence. Jason speculates about internal leaks, potential coaching changes, and the future direction of the team, highlighting organizational challenges.

"We went from partying in the streets to be in the Celtics to what is happening in the organization." — Jason McIntyre [49:07]

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Key Insights and Conclusions

• Diverse Perspectives: The collaboration between Jason McIntyre and Eddie House showcases a dynamic discussion, blending statistical analysis with personal insights and alternative viewpoints.

• Player Value Beyond Stats: Both hosts emphasize the importance of defensive capabilities and clutch performances, suggesting that a player's impact extends beyond traditional scoring metrics.

• Team Dynamics and Leadership: Leadership qualities and the ability to perform under pressure are recurrent themes, particularly in the discussions about SGA and Tyrese Halliburton.

• Organizational Challenges: The segment on the Knicks underscores how internal dynamics and leadership decisions can significantly impact a team's performance and public perception.

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Notable Quotes

• "Ben Matherick is great at getting to the Tim." — Jason McIntyre [05:24]
• "Caruso was excellent." — Jason McIntyre [05:30]
• "He single-handedly brought back the Pacers in Game One against the Knicks." — Jason McIntyre [05:48]
• "SGA just knows how to use his defender, which tells me that he watches film." — Eddie House [20:51]
• "We went from partying in the streets to be in the Celtics to what is happening in the organization." — Jason McIntyre [49:07]

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This episode of "The Herd" provided an in-depth analysis of the top players in the NBA Finals, enriched by Eddie House's alternative perspectives and discussions on team dynamics. Listeners gained valuable insights into player performances, team strategies, and the intricate workings of basketball organizations.

Transcript

[Jason McIntyre]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Alex Curry]

Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience seamlessly integrates powerful performance, its bold, daring design, a refined interior, details, cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric suv. Compromise. Not one of them. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC the herd is brought to you by Grainger. If you work as a maintenance manager, your facility is your home turf and your home field advantage is having a partner like Grainger. They offer trusted professional grade products for every industry from lighting and electrical to safety and everything in between. Plus fast, dependable delivery. Which is why they always come through in the clutch. Just like you. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No? A box of fine wines? Yes, Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to 3 EAS a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Eddie House]

Now let's get this party started.

[Jason McIntyre]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome back. Our number two here on the herd. It's me, Jason McIntyre, in for Colin Cowherd, joined by Alex Curry. Alex, I know you're fired up about game one tonight. There's some good soccer this afternoon. We get the Stanley Cup. There is another sporting event this week is French Open finals.

[Unknown]

Something.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it's happening.

[Unknown]

I don't follow tennis as much. I'm more of like, if I'm picking one, I'm going to do NBA and hockey and baseball, obviously.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, have you played pickleball before? Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's funny. I, like, everyone was, like, really hot on it. I'm a big ping pong player.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh.

[Unknown]

So I was runner up at Miracosta ping pong tournament. I just, you know, I tried to.

[Jason McIntyre]

Get a ping pong table on the set. I've been lobbying Kyle. I'm like, kyle, can we hit the table?

[Unknown]

I almost beat Mike Trout. We were tied. He ended up beating me by two. Refused to ever play me again. I'll just throw that out there. Like, I. I am extremely competitive at anything that I do. But, yeah, it sim. It had a similar feel. But, I mean, I. I won the first game I played at pickleball.

[Jason McIntyre]

Pickleball is a lot of fun people. Yes. Yes. All right, we got Eddie House coming up in a few minutes. My main man, Eddie House, Boston Celtics legend, Arizona State guy. He just loved talking basketball with him. All right, well, real quick, before we get to my list of the top 10 players in the NBA Finals. Real quick. LeBron was on his podcast Mind the Game. You guys need to listen to what he said about Tyrese Halliburton.

[Eddie House]

You look at what's going on with. With the patients throughout the regular season and now throughout the postseason, you get it.

[Jason McIntyre]

You get why they are the team they are. And it starts with the head of the snake.

[Eddie House]

We know that.

[Jason McIntyre]

And that's what Halle. I mean, you know, you.

[Eddie House]

You can gravitate and. And.

[Jason McIntyre]

And bring energy and love and would and would run through a wall for certain guys.

[Eddie House]

And he's a guy that you would do that for because.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just because of how. How he plays the game. Halle is one of the ones, you.

[Eddie House]

Know, and you know, the success is.

[Jason McIntyre]

Not happening just because.

[Eddie House]

Just came out the blue. It's happening because of Halle and that team.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen, I really wanted to put Halliburton one on my list of players in the final. I just can't make the case for him over SGA. But I will say this. I'm 99.99% certain the only USA basketball player who was on the Olympic team last summer who's in the NBA finals is Tyrese Halliburton. I mean, Chet Holmgren might have been able to make that team as like a benchcore. But Tyrese Halliburton and he couldn't even get in the game. Remember, it was like Jason Tatum's getting benched. Halliburton could not get on the court. All right, here we go. My top 10 players in the NBA Finals, counting backwards. 10 to 1, are we ready? Here we go.

[Alex Curry]

Number 10.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'm going to go. Ben Matheran, he's essentially the get a bucket guy off the bench. Young kid out of Arizona can score in bunches. He had 20 against the Knicks. Really a valuable bench player. Now the problem is he's not a prolific three point shooter. So my guess is the Thunder sag off and say, Ben, make your threes. He's great at getting to the Tim. Super athletic Ben Matherick, number 10. Number nine, Alex Caruso. How about it? Former Laker and former Bull, but we never talk about his bull run because he didn't do anything. But on a good team. Oh, man, Alex Caruso is awesome. Some of these defensive numbers. He has the second best defensive rating of anybody in the playoffs. He's locked down. He guarded Jokic against Edvin. Remember that? In game seven, that was like the trump card that they had to play. And they played it. And Caruso was excellent. Alex Caruso, number nine. Number eight, Aaron Neesmith. I could guarantee you you would not know him if he rang your doorbell and delivered you a pizza. Not a lot of people do. He was on the Celtics and they kind of cut him loose. I'm sure they regret it. He single handedly brought back the Pacers in game one against the Knicks. Hit eight of nine threes. Aaron Neesmith, number eight. Number seven, Caisson Wallace might be the guy with the most upside of anybody not named SGA in the finals. I'm telling you, Kason Wallace is awesome. He's an excellent defender. And oh, by the way, he has the best defensive rating of anybody in the playoffs. Caruso's number two ranks third in steals per game. I mean, KSI Wallace is a name to watch. I can see him being the third best player on a championship team in like two years.

[Alex Curry]

Number six.

[Jason McIntyre]

This was tough. I want Miles Turner. I like him a lot. Before the playoffs, Laker fans will remember I was on here. Lakers got to go get Miles Turner. Luka Lebron, call Miles Turner. Ask him to take less. That's not happening, guys. Turner didn't have a great series against the Knicks, but I'm looking to bet his three pointers over in game one or two because he can get Open from the corner and OKC concedes those. Miles Turner, great rim protector and three point shooter.

[Alex Curry]

Number five.

[Jason McIntyre]

Let's go. With Chet Holmgren at five, I really think he's their second best player. But J Dub just had a really good season. So I went chet here at five. He's still super young. Three games with 20 or more points against the Wolves, so he's starting to come into his own six. Second in blocks in the playoffs. Chad Hogen is what he thought he was going to. We thought he was going to be coming out against Zaga. A major upside for Chad. Number four. I want Jalen Williams. I know I have not given him his respect or flowers or whatever you guys want to call it much of the season. I don't know if he can be the second best player on a championship team, but he has been this year and their thunder are 11 1. When he scores 17 or more in the playoffs, I almost wonder how the Pacers are going to defend him. Do you put Siakam on him? I don't know. But somebody's got to slow J Dub because if he goes off, usually OKC wins. Number three, Pascal Siakam. I know he was the Eastern Conference MVP and we had a bit of a debate this morning in the meeting. I think Siakam's a lock at three, but man, he went over 33 times against the Knicks. And maybe some of that had to do with Karl Anthony Townes guarding him. I mean, I could give Kat 10 at least, but Siakam just torched him and he was just up and down the court. He won a title with the Raptors. What's the Occam in three, but he's got a case for two.

[Alex Curry]

Number two.

[Jason McIntyre]

What the helly. Tyrese Halliburton. This is my guy. I kind of fell in love with his game last year during the in season tournament. This guy's an excellent basketball player, does everything well. He is, you know, kind of struggling from three, but when it's clutch time, who else do you want besides Haliburton? Like he has nailed every big time shot. Go look at the end of the Cav series. Phenomenal. Takes down the knicks in game one with the buzzer beater. Tyrese Halliburton. Second best player in the finals.

[Eddie House]

Number one.

[Jason McIntyre]

SGA MVP, right? Minus 600 to be the finals MVP. Don't love the mid range. Stop calling him MJ Mid Range. Stop calling him Kobe just because he makes red range shots. Okay? He's a really, really good basketball player and he's going to be an NBA champion probably in about eight days. Sga, number one. All right, without further ado. And listen, he already told me he's got pushback. Let's bring in Eddie House, NBA champ, Probably the only guest we have on regularly who's a better shooter than I am, because Paul Pierce doesn't come on the. Paul Pierce doesn't come on the show a lot, so it's got to be you. Eddie, how are you, man?

[Eddie House]

Yeah, first off, I'm good. Your stroke ain't like that, man. Your jumper is not like that. So stop putting extras on it. Well, don't put the sauce on it, man. Don't put the sauce on it.

[Jason McIntyre]

I had to come on. What do you hate about this list?

[Eddie House]

Look, I like the top three, actually. I like the. Yeah, the top four, actually, because I think Jalen Williams has been balling out, but Chet Holmring has to go down. Miles Turner, go ahead of him. Cason Wallace, I will probably put him down to 10. I probably would take Benedict Matheran off. And I got two guys from Indiana that I think are super important for them to win, and that will be Nemhard, and that will be also T.J. mcCollum. Those two guys right there are huge because they changed. Actually, think about, though, what they did when they picked up 94ft, how they changed the tempo of the game, how they put pressure on Jaylen Brunson. They wore him down. So I will have to put them on the list because if you have Alex Caruso on there, you got to have McConnell. And you also have to have Nemart on there.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, no, no, T.J. mcConnell's good. That's one of the NBA comps that I get a lot. T.J. mcConnell. Anyways, Eddie, hey, we got to start with. We got to start with your Celtics, my guy. Listen, I tell the audience Eddie House loves to watch the show, and then text me, J. Mac, what the hell is Colin talking about? Blah, blah, blah. Listen, the Knicks, I know they were down 20 in the first two games, but that series against the Celtics, I didn't think it was particularly close. The Knicks were better. Are you still shocked that Boston got bounced in the second round?

[Eddie House]

Yeah, I am shocked because it's two things, is that, you know, last year when we won it, we went through not a gauntlet of teams, but we went through a gauntlet of injuries that we were playing against. Like, guys, Donovan Mitchell was hurt. Halliburton was hurt. And so when you look at it, it's like, okay, it Was flipped this time coming in, who was hurt? Jrue Holiday was hurt with his hamstring. Jaylen Brown was hurt with his knee. And this is not making no excuse because you out there, you gotta play. And then Jayson Tatum goes down and then the mysterious illness that Porzingis has. So those are four of our starters, you know, that something was going on and it wasn't a healthy team. I think the only people that were really healthy was Peyton Pritchard, Derrick White, anybody that was coming off the bench. So when you look at it, it's just. I'm surprised because I thought we would be able to galvanize and come together and still win it. But when you have that many injuries and the things that's going on, you know, Jaylen Brown getting injections in his knee, and then you come to find out that he has a meniscus tear. You like, okay, cool. Then Jalen Jayson Tatum with his Achilles injury, even though they. I still think we probably would have lost that game. And then like, the KP was so big for us, even though in. In the finals, when all he did was play that one game and had that 18 points in that first game, and that's all it was to propel us and. But it, you know, whatever was going on and he didn't look good at the end, you know, the end of that last interview that he had, you could tell that it's something that's going on with him in his face. He didn't look the same. He looked sunk in. In his eyes and stuff like that. So with all that going on, I was surprised that we weren't able to come together and still win it because I thought we had a better roster. But at the same time, when you got four of your best players, you know, sitting down, it's rough.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. It's interesting because I had this rant this week that I like the super teams. Give me super teams or give me death. And I like when players join forces. I almost wonder, that Celtics team from last year, is that going to be the last one where you added pieces? Jrue Holiday, Porzingis, Derrick White. And you won. Because now it looks like this summer teams want to tear down teams. They don't. Owners don't want to be writing checks for 50, 60 million for that second apron. Are these Celtics going to get torn apart?

[Eddie House]

You know what? To me right now, I just. I don't know which direction they go from here. You got guys under contract for, you know, Jrue Holiday's older. He got Extra four years. We know what he brings to the table, but that money's there. Porzingis hasn't been able to be a steady guy that you. It is a new ownership. So this new ownership is not the guy that signed the checks to get these guys here. So I mean, I think it's going to be some changes. I believe, I believe that it will be some changes. Hopefully is not. And he'll be like, hey, I could write that check or whatever. But the way it's looking, I think it might be some changes.

[Jason McIntyre]

So, Eddie, do you like super teams? And just to clarify, OKC can never be a super team. They were a homegrown team to me. Super teams are the Celtics adding KG and Ray Allen. The warriors adding Kevin Durant. Because when you add a star, everybody gets ticked off, right? The LeBron forming the heels, LeBron bringing Kevin Love with him and Kyrie like those are super teams. And did you like that era more than this whole, hey, we got a new champ every single year.

[Eddie House]

Well, I don't mind whatever it is. You know why? Because the really though, if it's homegrown, like how OKC has done it or if it's. I mean Indiana is pretty much homegrown as well. You know what I mean? So if it's homegrown or if it's because the GM is just super smart and is able to make things move, move in the right way and make it work, I don't, I don't mind it. I mean, you know, get your game up basically. You know, if, if, if you a GM over here, you would get out work by the other gm. You better get, get it together. So I, I don't mind either way. I just like watching great basketball and I think OKC has done it in a different way to where they have drafted. They didn't draft sga, but he was able to stockpil and, and, and get enough assets to get SGA because of Paul George. And then on top of that, they got so many assets right now to where they could go get somebody. Yeah, you know what? Kevin Durant going back to OKC will be a great story.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, they need, we need the Pacers to win for that to happen. KD ain't joining a team that won the championship. Right? He joined the war. They lost. Do you think KD would go there if they win?

[Eddie House]

I mean, why wouldn't he. He own it. He owned the back end of his career.

[Jason McIntyre]

Why wouldn't he Pays attention to all the outside noise. This. That would be the ultimate. Not ring chase, but like, come on, dude. There's a. A team that. They're probably going to roll the Pacers here and then add kd now. They can because they have assets. But would he. I don't know. I think he's probably a little too sensitive to do that, don't you? He hears the noise, Eddie.

[Eddie House]

I, I would, I would go there. I don't care about the noise. I, me, myself, I don't. I, you know, I turn off the noise. But let me ask you this. What do you think how this series is going to go?

[Jason McIntyre]

I think Pacers in six or Thunder in four? I. I don't. One of those two. I don't think there's like an in between where it's a great series. Okay. He's probably gonna beat. Beat him down, right?

[Eddie House]

I don't think it's going to be as easy as people think. I think the way that the Pacers play, you know, very fast, very quick. The one thing about OKC is if they set their defense, if they have a set defense, you take your time bringing the ball up the court and you allow them to get locked in defensively. Blocks and elbows and then they get handsy, they get physical. But if you able to push the pace. And I was on Breakfast Ball this morning and I showed a clip of. There was a layup. OG Anunoby laid it up and right after that there was a. They scored. They inbounded. One pass, two passes. One pass to Haliburton, one pass to Siakam. One dribble Euro step layup with Nemhard in the corner. So if they play fast like that, that's the only way I feel like you could compromise. The OKC defense is playing fast. And playing fast doesn't necessarily mean that. It means getting into the shot, getting up into the front court early. That way you can have multiple actions because if you don't and you allow them to put you and have you on your heels and now you're compromised with your offense because you're down on the shot clock. That. That is where OKC thrives.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, but can the Pacers even pull that off against these guys? I mean, OKC's Caruso is their oldest guy. Like, they move pretty well. I don't think Harden seed's gonna play a lot. Then you got. Chet is your big and you got a bunch of guards out there. I. I just think it could be tough sledding for the Pacers. I'm rooting Indiana, but I don't know if they can actually put off. Let me ask you real quick, SGA is sort of becoming a polarizing guy. A, what do you think of the nickname Free throw Merchant? And B, is He James Harden 2.0 trading threes for the midi?

[Eddie House]

No, he's SGA 1.0. Okay? This dude is cold blooded.

[Jason McIntyre]

And.

[Eddie House]

And the one thing about it and Free throw Merchant, whatever he, he is, he just knows how to draw fouls. He knows how to get to the basket. He's playing inside, outside. He's. He's such a threat, and he's a lot longer than everybody thinks he is. Like, you see him on the court, you see seven footers over there, you see six, ten tens and six nines, but he's legit six' six. That's MJ size. Now, just because he's not jumping out of the gym like how Michael Jordan was, He just has angles. He knows how to play his angles. He knows where to get. He knows how to use his defender, which tells me that he watches film. It tells me that he understands exactly what he's going against when he's playing a certain team defensively. And then on top of that, the one thing is, man, have you ever seen a bead of sweat on his face? I've never seen it. I think he the coldest. I think he the coldest cat. Just watch his face. He sweats on it. He sweats on his shoulders and his neck. He don't sweat in his face. What you mean? Oh, God.

[Jason McIntyre]

So you cold.

[Eddie House]

I'm telling you.

[Jason McIntyre]

Give me your top five players in the NBA right now. Is he number one? The way you're gassing him up, man.

[Eddie House]

No, no. Jokic is number one.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay? Who's two?

[Eddie House]

I ain't gassing him up. I'm just. I'm keeping it real. You want to keep it real, keep it fake. Which one?

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay.

[Eddie House]

You know, you can't shoot better than.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, okay, so keep it real.

[Eddie House]

You know you can't shoot like that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Who's number two?

[Eddie House]

Jokic is number one.

[Jason McIntyre]

Would you take Luka?

[Eddie House]

I'll have to go with no.

[Jason McIntyre]

What? What? A year ago, Luca led the maps to the finals and now he's chopped liver and nobody thinks he's any good.

[Eddie House]

You take sga, nobody say he's cha. I'm taking SGA because SGA plays on the other end of the court. SGA let. Didn't he leave the league and still.

[Jason McIntyre]

A great defense behind him? Ed, I could play great defense on that team.

[Alex Curry]

Come on.

[Eddie House]

Remember Luca There you go again. No, we didn't.

[Jason McIntyre]

On the back line. He was fine.

[Eddie House]

No, we didn't. We weren't. We attacked.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Celtics did. Yeah, of course.

[Eddie House]

No, listen. So what we did was whoever Luka was guarding. Because they try to hide. You can't hide in this league. Right? So whoever Luka was guarding last year, and that's what happened this year with Luka and with la, is they took a page out of the Celtics book. It didn't matter who he was guarding. You try to hide him against Derrick White. Soon as Derrick White caught it, he attacked. What did it? What did that do? Collapse the defense, put him in rotation. Now you in rotation, you ball movement and you get an open shot. That's what I'm saying. You can't do that with sga. SGA plays defense, man.

[Jason McIntyre]

So the Celtics were attacking Carl Ante, Towns attacking Brunson. They just missed their threes. Last year they hit them against Luca. All right, let me ask you one more. SGA or Giannis? Who you building around next five years?

[Eddie House]

How old is Giannis?

[Jason McIntyre]

I think he's 31. 30. 31. In that range. Oh my gosh.

[Eddie House]

I gotta go. I gotta go with the big fella.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay.

[Eddie House]

I gotta go with Yanis.

[Jason McIntyre]

Scaring me, man. Listen, sg, I get it. He's awesome. But like even you just referenced mj. 6. 6 frame. Can we stop with the Kobe and MJ stuff? Do you really think he's that good in the mid range or is it just that we haven't seen the midi in so long?

[Eddie House]

I think he's that good in the mid range. I'm not comparing him to Jordan or Kobe. Okay, Those two guys, let's take him out. Let's take them out of there. He might be right now. He is one of the most dynamic scorers in our league. So right now, today. And so that's what I would say. I'm not going to compare him to Kobe. I'm not going to compare him to mj. I'm not going to compare him to anybody else like Carmelo Anthony to say. Because Carmelo was a hell of a mid range assassin. So I'm not going to do all of those things. But I will say right now he cold.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. All right. Two. Two more quick ones. Number one. If OKC wins as everybody expects, they're minus 700 to win the series and SGA's finals MVP, who's the greatest player in Thunder history, SGA or KD?

[Eddie House]

Well, it got to be SGA because the fact of the matter is he brought him a championship. If they don't win the championship, I think KD still has, still has that leverage right there. But then let's not forget how great Russell Westbrook was. Everybody keep like glossing over how, you know, he like. Look, talking about Kate. What about what? Russell Westbrook, three years, three out of four years average, a triple double. I mean that's, that's something, that's something you could speak on and say, hey man, that's kind of an argument that you could have if you want to a good debate that you could have and say, hey, okay, well this one did this, this one did this. But if he wins the championship, I think that trumps everything else.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I, gosh, I totally disagree with that. I mean, championship is a team honor.

[Eddie House]

What you mean you disagree with.

[Jason McIntyre]

He lost to the 73 win warriors, the greatest regular season team in NBA history. There's no fault in that. Look who SGA is going through. Okay, fine, fine. Last question. Oh, my Knicks. I got to ask about my Knicks. They fired Thibodeau. A, did you agree with it? And B, who do you want them to hire? Not who do you think they'll hire?

[Eddie House]

Well, I, I didn't agree with the, the tips firing and early this morning on Breakfast Bar, I was in my all black. I was leaving the Knicks repass because they had just, you know, we had went to the funeral, we had got a, I had got a good plate of food and everything, you know what I mean? So I don't know who, I don't know who they, who they go after. Do they go after Jay Wright? Because that's Villanova Knicks. You guys are the Villanova Knicks. You know what I mean?

[Jason McIntyre]

I know. Well, Michael Malone. Do you think that's a good fit or is that just Tibbs 2.0?

[Eddie House]

That's exactly. That's what I was going to say. Him and Tibbs are cut from the same cloth and I'm not sure if that would mix but you know, we've been hearing the. What? The Danny Hurley.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, forget that. The name yesterday. I haven't seen other places doing it is Jason Kidd. Would he want out of the Mavericks? Remember, he didn't seem happy about the Luca thing. He played for the Knicks. Is there a world where Jason J. Kidd says, get me out of this Dallas situation. I want to go coach the Knicks and I could get him to the finals.

[Eddie House]

No way. A healthy ad, A healthy Kyrie Gafford live. But look at Gaffer Lively and the number one overall Pick Cooper Flag. Somebody that you can nurture throughout the whole. Throughout his whole career. You would. There's no way that he's leaving Dallas.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, obviously, you know a lot about college hoops. Your son played. You got two twins about to go up there. I need to ask Cooper Flag, I think he's going to be like, transcendent. I'm talking, like, I think he's NBA comparison is like Kevin Garnett. Other people are like, like a 15 and 7 guy. Where do you fall on what Cooper Flag will do early in his career with the Mavs?

[Eddie House]

Well, I think early on he gonna have. He's gonna learn. He's gonna learn, you know, just the. The. The way the game is played in the league. I think he's gonna play with more space because it is more space in the league, but I think he's gonna be a killer. Like, he has a killer mentality. And I'll tell you this, Brian Scalabrini told me this, like, what, four years ago. He was like, man, I got this kid, Cooper Flag. He was like, straight killer, straight dog. And I was like, what? He was like, no, he's from Maine. He's like, I'd be training him. He was like, he picks up on things just like that. Like, it doesn't. If he doesn't know it that day, the next day he's perfected it. So that's. That's the type of player that I think that we're going to be able to see and I think we'll be able to enjoy. I mean, I'm excited to watch the young man play in the NBA.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's interesting because Carmelo this week was like, yeah, Cooper Flag doesn't do anything great. He's just jack of all trades, master of none. It sounds like you have some intel that Cooper Flag is a killer, which to me is a skill.

[Eddie House]

Yeah, you got to have a mentality. He has that dog mentality in him. And so it can't be on you. It has to be in you. You can't teach somebody to have that. It has to be in them naturally. And from everything that I've seen, from everything that I've heard, all the information that I gathered about him, that it's in him. And, you know, he wants to work, he wants to be great. He wants to be the best that he can be, and he's going to try to maximize everything that he can, squeeze every little bit of juice that he has in his body to be the best he could be.

[Jason McIntyre]

Love it. Good Stuff. Eddie House, the best shooter at Fox Sports by a mile. Over me. NBA champion. He's just a good all around dude. Listen, Eddie, I love your work. Keep up the good stuff, man. Have a great summer.

[Eddie House]

Right on. Take care, bruh.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Coming up next here on the Herd, Alex has a story in Herd line about how one young NFL wide receiver is schooling his veteran teammates in OTAs. That's next.

[Alex Curry]

One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day.

[Jason McIntyre]

Seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app.

[Alex Curry]

Search herd to listen live or on.

[Jason McIntyre]

Demand, whenever you'd like.

[Alex Curry]

Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake. That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels to clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the tit. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified, looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll. Meet Paycor, a paychex company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results from recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset. Your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders if you're an inventory specialist in a warehouse, Granger knows you've probably faced a situation like this before. Your forklift, your facility's workhorse, is leaking hydraulic fluid and with a full schedule of shipments on the docket, this has the potential to cause a major delay of game. But you're not worried. You're prepared for this type of situation and you have an ace in the hole. Grainger Grainger offers professional grade products for every industry from hydraulic oils and hoses. So much more. Plus fast, dependable delivery. So you can be confident that you'll have the product you need on hand to fix that forklift and get it back in the game. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Jason McIntyre]

Back here on the Herd. Great stuff from Eddie House. Good guy. Really is. I mean I gotta be honest. I this is fun. I really enjoy this job. Alex, let's go to you with the news. No no no no.

[Eddie House]

Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Unknown]

Well J. Mac, let's start here here in LA because the Rams wide receiver room has had a ton of turnover, especially after losing Cooper cup this offseason. Now Kukanukua is the most tenured wide receiver on that offense and even though Devonte Adams has more experience, Puka says he's taking more of a leadership role in practice.

[Alex Curry]

They're asking me questions and I'm like.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wait, Coach Arms, do you want me to answer this for real? I'm like, I feel like I have.

[Alex Curry]

Still have some of these similar questions, but it's been good because it's a.

[Jason McIntyre]

Teaching moment for the ME as well.

[Unknown]

Now he's been very open about how much Cooper cup was his mentor and kind of showed him the ropes of everything. So this is going to be a little bit of a a learning curve in his third year. As I mentioned, they did pick up veteran Devonte Adams who has more experience, but Puka has more experience with the Rams offense. So interesting dynamic. I hope for them that they can have a similar relationship that he had with Cooper cup because that's all he talked about was how great they were off the field connected wise. But what do you make of this.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. It's like last year, you know, cup was good, but he was starting to show his age.

[Unknown]

Injury. He deals with injuries.

[Alex Curry]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

And you got devonte Adams. Oh, geez. Devonte Adams. He's getting up there in age, but he's still very, very good. I don't know who the one is here.

[Unknown]

That's also kind of a good thing because it can throw off defenses. You know, I think it's good to have two powerhouses like that on offense. I still think the Rams, they look good to win the NFC West. I think it's going to be a closer competition with the 49ers, who are going to kind of sneak up on people with the easiest schedule this year.

[Jason McIntyre]

But I'm looking at the Rams schedule early on. There's some. Some potholes. That opener against Houston's going to be good.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

They also have to play at Philly in week three.

[Unknown]

That'll be tough.

[Jason McIntyre]

They host the Niners, you know, that's always a great rival. And then at Baltimore, So their first six are tough. They face three playoff teams. Now, Utah center, rookie quarterback, should be a win. Colt should be a win. Three and three. Can they do that? Yeah. And then week seven, Jags in London, then the Buy, then the Saints, and you're right, the second half of that schedule joke.

[Unknown]

It's just tough because San Francisco is such an easy schedule.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So. And they're. Yeah, it's. It's good. It's going to be an interesting one. I'm sad that they don't have that second 49ers matchup later on in the season like they used to, where they're, like, playing for first place in the NFC West.

[Jason McIntyre]

Other thing I'm noticing is, schedule wise, cold weather games. Seattle may be cold and rainy in December, but other than that, like Carolina in November should be.

[Unknown]

Yeah. They got Lions at home, which is always a good one.

[Jason McIntyre]

And then Dome Falcons, Dome Cardinals.

[Unknown]

Yeah, they're going to be okay. You got Stafford because also, we know Stafford isn't great in cold games, so.

[Jason McIntyre]

And yesterday's guest, good for him down the stretch, Adam Choff. He has Bill's Ram Super Bowl. Exacto. I'll be betting that in Vegas, cuz. Wow. Listen, that's. That's not bad.

[Unknown]

That one flew right by me when he said that. Okay. Yeah. No, I think the Rams are going to be good this year. All right, let's move on to Derek Carr's retirement, which was a surprise to many earlier this summer, and he recently shed some light on the reason why he hung it up. Now, Carr told the front office sports that he didn't want to take the Saints money as he rehabbed from a shoulder surgery that would have kept him out the majority of the upcoming season. Now, not many athletes would kind of do the right thing and would walk away from close to $20 million. He still got $10 million roster bonus out of that 30 million. This is the one time in an athlete's life that they usually make this kind of money and can set them up and their families up. Which is why I never judge an athlete for going for the bag and maybe not the better team and a chance to. To win a championship, because that's their. That's their choice. Right. But he's done well. He's made over. I think it was $195.7 million in his career. So when you hear something like this that he's okay walking away from 20 million, you have to invested well and kind of set himself up for success after football, but that not many athletes would do that.

[Jason McIntyre]

So did you just say he made 195 million?

[Unknown]

Yeah, 195.7 million in his.

[Jason McIntyre]

How many playoff appearances for Derek Carr? Zero. Not one. One.

[Unknown]

I was gonna say. I was like, he made it, but.

[Jason McIntyre]

He was injured against the Colts and they played the Bengals.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

And he didn't believe. Okay, 195 million. Didn't play. Yeah, that's as good as it gets.

[Unknown]

Yeah. No, he. He had a good career and a.

[Jason McIntyre]

Nice job by him.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Not just taking the Saints money.

[Unknown]

That's crazy. You do not hear that from athletes because again, this is the one time in their career like that they get this kind of money usually.

[Jason McIntyre]

So he's retiring. Would you say he's 32, already retiring with generational wealth?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, I say we got a good. Like, this is fun talking about sports every day. 34. He's 34 years old.

[Unknown]

34 years old.

[Jason McIntyre]

Derek Carr's retiring at 34 with enough money in the bank that he own houses and multiple continents.

[Unknown]

Generational wealth, that is. This is for your kids.

[Jason McIntyre]

He earned it. He's competing too. I mean, you know, he's got this. He did latest surgery.

[Unknown]

Not his fault. He didn't have you trade four surgeries for $100 million. Would I trade four surgeries? Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, it's fine. Okay. Let's wrap things up. On his old team in Vegas. Ashton Genty was the first running back drafted and the Raiders are happy to have him. Some other running backs may be a bit jealous though, when they see how much guaranteed money he is getting. The rookie isn't about to give any money back, but he can see where other running backs would have an issue. Take a listen.

[Eddie House]

I was like, what? Like, there's no way. But I think also for me, I just feel like, I feel like that just shows, like, the position, like guys should be getting paid more, but also like, I mean, I, I put that work in. I, you know, obviously they seen something in me, so. But now I would say it's like, I wouldn't say it's added pressure, but obviously everybody's expecting me to come in and play like that.

[Unknown]

The craziest part of all of this, he has the second the most guaranteed money by a running back in the NFL and hasn't even played in an NFL game. He's just below Saquon Barkley. Yeah, this is guaranteed money. Saquon's at number one with 36. Ashton Genti is at number two with 35.9. He makes more like guaranteed than Jonathan Taylor, Derrick Henry and Christian McCaffrey.

[Jason McIntyre]

That is insane. Wild. I guess Henry's getting up there in age. CMAC is also late 20s. Yeah, but that is a lot of money.

[Unknown]

Yeah, these are like the best, the best of the best of the position in the NFL.

[Jason McIntyre]

No pressure.

[Unknown]

Ashton Genti, this is all the pressure right here. But also like, yes, running backs used to be one of the highest paid positions. They kind of had a little setback, but they're slowly back on the rise contract wise.

[Jason McIntyre]

What do you think? They're looking at him sideways in the locker room. Some of the guys who maybe are.

[Unknown]

Like, I mean, those are insecure guys. Like, you want guys to get paid because then that means, like, there's money to go around.

[Jason McIntyre]

Like if somebody just soak it all up.

[Unknown]

No, I like how get mad at a guy. Don't get mad at a guy for like getting paid. Like, everyone wants to do it. He's going to. Let's see how he plays. If he doesn't deliver, then it's like, what? Excuse me. But if he does like that, he's been talking the talk. He has been talking the talk leading up to the draft, after the draft, like, I hope he delivers.

[Jason McIntyre]

I like him.

[Unknown]

Yeah. He came in, he said, I'm gonna do for a team what Saquon Barkley did for the Eagles. Like, he's, he's coming in with like, extreme confidence. Let's see him back. It up. He hasn't played an NFL game yet, but he is the second most guaranteed money by an NFL running back.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wild Alex with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. All right, coming up next, you're starting to see some leaks trickle out about what went down in New York. Thibodeau gets fired, and then now Jalen Brunson's dad is getting hammered. We will dive into that next year on the Herd.

[Alex Curry]

Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Alex Curry]

Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Summer is here and you can now get almost any anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance, while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game, so why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a Paychex company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset. Your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leadership to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders if you're an inventory specialist in a warehouse, Grainger knows you've probably faced a situation like this before. Your forklift, your facility's workhorse, is leaking hydraulic fluid, and with a full schedule of shipments on the docket, this has the potential to cause a major delay of game. But you're not worried. You're prepared for this type of situation, and you have an ace in the hole. Grainger Grainger offers professional grade products for every industry, from hydraulic oils and hoses. So much more. Plus fast, dependable delivery so you can be confident that you'll have the product you need on hand to fix that forklift and get it back in the game. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Unknown]

Saturday it's Baseball Night in America on Fox. Another chapter in America's greatest rivalry unfolds as the Red Sox take on Aaron Judge and the Yankees or if the Padres battle the Brewers. Check your local listings for the game in your area. Saturday at 7:30 Eastern on Fox.

[Jason McIntyre]

Let me turn back the clock. Two weeks three Knicks fans eliminate the Boston Celtics in the playoffs. The defending champion Celtics, and they're partying in the streets of 7th Avenue. You guys remember Timothy Chalamet, Lisan, Al Gaib, Hello. Dune is, like, leaning out the window, just going crazy. It was a scene, a party. Knicks fans were like, we back. You know that. That meme from the Wire let the streets know we're back up. The Knicks are back. It came tumbling down pretty quickly. So they lose to the Pacers. Tuesday. Yeah, Tuesday. In the middle of the show, Tom Thibodeau gets fired. This guy on Monday had said out. Let's just run it back, baby. We're good. Bit of a whiff there. And now this morning, I wake up to a report from Sam Amico. I believe he's been here on the show that some people believe Rick Brunson, that's Jalen's dad, has too much of a say in the team's affairs. And he characterized Rick as the person with the most power in the entire organization. This sounds like youth sports, where, like, the best player's father can just call the shots. Anybody who's got a kid in club sports or local, whatever, you know what I'm talking about, okay? It's. It's spiraled downhill quickly for the Knicks, okay? We went from partying in the streets to be in the Celtics to what is happening in the organization. My first question when I see stuff like this is, who is leaking this crap? Why? Why are they doing it? What's the incentive to throw Jalen Brunson's dad under the bus? Now, before my guests, let me provide some context. So I was. I was doing some reading about Rick Brunson. Now I'm a super big nerdy basketball guy, okay? I remember in the 90s, Rick Brunson was a guard on the Temple Owls. Anybody remember them? Eddie Jones, Aaron McKee was a sick team, guys. They had some good players. Rick Brunson was like the third wheel on that team. Rick Brunson grew up playing before he got to college playing high school basketball with, wait for it, Tom Thibodeau. They met in a summer, you could read the story online, and instantly they were both dogs. Like hardcore competitors. You got that dog in you, you know, they became friends. So Brunson didn't really happen in the NBA, but Thibodeau ended up getting jobs. So Thibodeau coaches the Timberwolves. Do you want to Guess who he had as an assistant coach? Rick Brunson. Thibodeau goes to the Chicago Bulls. Do you want to guess who he had as an assistant coach? Rick Brunson. Thibodeau goes to the Knicks. Rick Brunson. So Brunson was feeling like, hey, this is my guy. But not only that, Leon Rose, the GM of the Knicks, the power player calls all the shots. This Jalen Brunson's godfather. So, yeah, on some level, I can see Rick Brunson puffing his chest out, yo, not only was I a Hooper, but my kid is a stud. He's bringing you guys back to prominence. And I'm protected by the coach who I've known for 50 years, and the GM who's my son's godfather. Of course, you'd feel bulletproof, wouldn't you?

[Alex Curry]

So I.

[Jason McIntyre]

On some level, I get this. But now I'm going to come back to the question, who's putting this out there? I thought the Knicks were the Villanova Knicks. They were a real team. They did a commercial together. Come on. National commercial. Carl. Anthony Towns was not in the commercial. He's the new guy. Mikhail Bridges, new guy. Now, he was a Villanova, Nick. But you're starting to wonder, wow, is this Thibodeau leaking? Why would Thibodeau leak stuff about Brunson, his guy? All signs are pointing to one player. And that player just happened to have kind of a rough series defensively against the Pacers. Pascal Siakam cooked him. And now we went from celebrating the Knicks best season in 25 years to, oh, geez, what is it, Game of Thrones happening inside the Knicks organization? I mean, I don't see a world where Jalen Brunson gets traded. It's tough for me to envision them firing his dad, but we're going to have a new coach here in a minute. Is it going to be Michael Malone? Here's Mitch Lawrence, NBA reporter, on the show yesterday on why he likes Michael Malone a lot. I would hire Mike Malone. He knows New York. His father coached in New York.

[Eddie House]

I knew Brendan Malone when he was.

[Alex Curry]

An assistant in Syracuse.

[Jason McIntyre]

When I started out in the newspaper racket in 1980. I go back that far when Michael Malone was running around in basically diapers. But he's a very good coach. And let's not forget, where was he before he landed in Denver and did a great job?

[Alex Curry]

Their first title ever?

[Eddie House]

He was in Sacramento.

[Jason McIntyre]

He did a great job there. I think Nick fans would actually say, you know, what if we get Mike Malone Yeah, we can go places. So it's starting to get a little tenuous. There's a report Rick Pitino came out. Do you want the next job? Absolutely not. Another guest called it a pit of vipers. The Garden. Jay Wright. I don't even think he's answering his phone when he sees a New York area code right now, folks. Nick, we got to get it together. I don't know, we need a team meeting. Another one. Final hour coming up next. Do the Pacers have a chance? And oh yeah, Shadour Sanders. He's playing.

[Alex Curry]

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[Jason McIntyre]

This is an iHeart podcast.