Chris Peterson (4:36)

He's a very, very hard worker. He has fun when he's in the building. I'm enjoying watching him progress with every single meeting, with every single rep. He's, he's doing a great job. And I think as a young player, I don't care what position you're playing, you're going to run a play or you're going to get something wrong that's so valuable because then you get to correct it, get it right. The next time. And he's doing a really, really nice job. I think he's showing up early, he's staying late, and he continues to get better every single day. And that's the fun part.

Colin Cowherd (5:06)

Okay, so now, now the other thing that we know to be true for all rookie quarterbacks is who's your first NFL coach? You can do a lot worse than Kevin Stefanski. Now that helps Dylan Gabriel as well. But I do think that's a benefit for Shador Sanders. Eric Mangini, used to coach the Browns, came on yesterday. He said cowherd, pump the brakes.

Chris Peterson (5:28)

There is a desperation coming off of desean Watson for, for some quarterback to emerge, for some hope to be there for the franchise. And they thought Shador could, could potentially be a, you know, a high pick form. And then they get him in the fifth round. So it's just, it exploded in Cleveland the second that he got here. And what Kevin Stefanski is trying to do is he's trying to tamper it down, he's trying to push it down. And you see all of his reps have been with the back end guys. He hasn't gotten any reps with the ones. To me, that, that's a good decision because as soon as he gets in with the ones, then the hype train is going to, going to roll even further.

Colin Cowherd (6:08)

Yeah. And there's no question, I mean, Cleveland, because they have struggled historically, they're just dying for a star quarterback. They want their Joe Burrow. You know, they, they, they passed on Mahomes. They, they, they want their Joe Burrow, they want their Lamar, they want their Mahomes. So they go crazy when they get Baker, Johnny Mansell or just Deshaun Watson and, and that you can feel the hysteria building for Shadour Sanders. But I kind of get it because they've missed so many times bake term with that. Chris Peterson is joining us live. Fox Sports college football analyst. You know, it's funny about this stuff. We, I was talking about Caleb earlier and I was a big fan of Caleb and I went to dinner last night with the Bears president and I said, I said he was magical for the first year at USC and the first six games of the second. And I said then that Notre Dame game happened. He got sacked six times. And I think Lincoln Riley and Caleb lost trust in the O line and he, he got into really bad habits. And I thought last year in Chicago, the coaching staff didn't correct those habits. From what you've seen of Caleb, the stuff we like about him, Chris is pretty obvious are there things you've looked at and that if you coached him, you would be like, hey, I got to clean this up with Caleb Williams.

Chris Peterson (7:26)

I haven't studied him, Colin, as much as you have. But I'll say this. You know, one of the harder guys for me to ever coach in my career has been scrambling quarterbacks that are really athletic and their legs are as much of a weapon as their arm is, because there's such a fine line between when you should take off and when you should hang in there. And it's one of those things like, no, no, no, no. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And so. And then you lose trust in your O line. Well, you know what's going to happen. So, you know, this guy is a phenomenal talent. But I think at the NFL level, one of those superpowers that these guys have to have is their pocket presence. There needs to be an instinct in there. They need to be trained in there. And really, to be one of the elite guys, they have to be elite in the pocket. I mean, if you just go back to the Tom Brady who, you know, can't run at all, couldn't run at all. I mean, that guy was so phenomenal in the pocket. I mean, that was his superpower, in my. My opinion.

Colin Cowherd (8:44)

So Shedeur is not a runner. You've seen plenty of him. He's right. He's. He's more like Kirk to me. He's got his comp. Could be Kirk Cousins. Maybe a little more movement is there. Give me what you liked about him and something you saw as an analyst and thought that that's a little. That's concerning.

Chris Peterson (9:02)

Yeah, well, I did like him a lot. I saw flashes where you saw the arm talent, the anticipation, I mean, the accuracy. So all those things you did see, I mean, at Colorado, there was a. I put together a highlight one time in Washington. I was like, oh, man, this guy's got something. But then going back to our conversation, we just had the thing. The weakness that I thought he had was pocket presence. Like Shador, to me, is athletic, but he's not very fast, certainly by NFL standards. So he is going to have to, like, minimize what we're seeing on tape right here and learn to get really good in that pocket. And if he does and gets comfortable there, which is a big F, I think he can be really good.

Colin Cowherd (9:48)

So this next question. I got a lot of pushback, apparently on this. Thank God. I don't read my phone or email, but I got a lot of pushback. I said, listen, College football has pivoted to the playoff. And the responsibility of Ryan Day is to get to that playoff. And, sorry, it's like college basketball. Tom Izzo's job at Michigan State, get to March. I don't care. You can lose to your rival. You'll keep your job. If you get into the sweet 16 in March, you. Those checks keep getting cashed. And so I look at Lincoln Riley and I say to myself, he doesn't get to play Oregon State anymore or Washington State or Cal or Arizona. Now it's Ohio State is going to be on the docket, and Michigan and Penn State. The travel's worse, the weather's worse, and also the two teams, the three teams that followed him to the Big Ten are Oregon, Washington, and his rival. So I can see Lincoln and USC going, guys, we'll play Notre Dame occasionally early in the season. We don't want to have an annual November game. And I defend blowing up that rivalry. Urban Meyer doesn't like it, but from a coaching standpoint, how does it land for you potentially not making that a regular game?

Chris Peterson (11:11)

I get 100% where the Trojans are coming from. Now, do I like that for the greater good of football? Absolutely not. No one does that. Loves college football. That's one of the most historic rivalries in all of college football. So it's like, wait, what? What are you doing? But I get it because you said it. It is about getting to the college football playoffs. And, you know, I actually like the selection committee. I kind of like that subjectivity. But one thing that I do think has been a little bit skewed with them is strength of schedule. They always talk about that. But when it push comes to shove in my mind, when I look about who they put in, they lean very heavily on the wins and losses, maybe more so than the strength of schedule. You know, I look at the March Madness like you were talking about, and, you know, they have all these metrics, and no one seems to debate those on strength of schedule and RPI and all those type of things. And I think if college football brought that a little bit more into the game with the committee, I think he could make for a good formula.

Colin Cowherd (12:26)

So listen, most college football coaches, yourself, potentially included are they love tradition of it, and there's a lot of movement. There's the playoff, there's the nil, there's the transfer portal. Now, the thing that bothers me more than everything is the transfer, transfer portal. Because my take is I don't mind if you transfer. I don't like you transferring three times, first of all, I actually don't think it's good for the kid. I think you have to fight through bad situations in life. And if it was up to me, I would say you get a transfer. But you can't transfer more than once over 18 months. That'll give you about two. In college, you don't get a transfer every year. And you could say, well, coaches leave. They don't leave every 18 months. That's not the way it works. And coaches, by the way, are bosses. Players are employees. My bosses at Fox get things that I don't get. That's the name of the game. But if I said to you, what needs more tweaking going forward, the transfer portal or the nil? What scares you a little bit? What worries you more?

Chris Peterson (13:26)

Colin, if I'm hearing you right, are you trying to lobby to be the commissioner of college football? Because I think we'd take you. I think we would. I mean, here's the thing about what's going on, and I think most fans understand this. There's a lot of good information out there. There's a lot of logic, some of the things you're talking about. The problem is everything's getting sued right now, and the lawsuits are not over yet, even though the house settlements coming down. And it gives us a little more structure, but who knows how that's going to last. But there's no question, you know, the nil. I think every. Most people in the game, the coaches, the players, the admin, they get the nil. I think everybody's on board with that. There's no question. It's the transfer portal and the tampering and, you know, a guy going to five schools in five years and all, and it's. You're right, it's not better for the kids in the long run. There's just no real structure to it. And I'll tell you, me being not on the sidelines, my whole heart and soul is into the greater good of college football. And it's just like, I worry. I talk to so many fans like you do that are getting so fed up with the college game. You know, it's like I've heard so many people, like, I'm out. I'm not renewing my tickets. I'm done with college football. And it's because of. For a lot of these longtime fans, they have a hard time wrapping their mind around paying the players. That ship has sailed. I think they can get over that.

Colin Cowherd (14:56)

Yeah.

Chris Peterson (14:57)

But what they don't want to do is pay these players and then have them leave every year. You. You don't even know who the players are. And I think you're feeling that even more so in college basketball. To me, college basketball problems are always a couple years in front of football, the extremeness of it. And you're seeing that in college. You know, I used to be the biggest college basketball fan, and I can't even follow college basketball. So I know that's coming in college football unless we put some, some guardrails on this thing. So I hope it gets worked out sooner than later.

Colin Cowherd (15:28)

Yeah. And I also think if you. The transfer portal is one of those things, it's like in life, oh, I make more money, I'm happier where mo more problems. And I look at the transfer portal and you say, oh, I'm going to go buy. I can go buy a starting corner. Brian Kelly, Lincoln Riley, Deion Sanders. A lot of these programs that brought in heavy transfers, their chemistry is no good. So I, I still like Debo Samuel, Dabo Sweeney. This year is going to have a great team. He doesn't believe in the portal in the nil. So I still believe you have to build through high schools. Okay, I want to, I want to go to this article which is Sean McVeigh, and if you haven't read it, folks, it's just great. And basically, Sean was going through a personal crisis a couple years ago, and you reached out to him and said, hey, I know what you're going through. Sean McVeigh is one of those people that I remember, the first time I saw him at the podium, I was like, how old is he? He should be a president. With your conversations with Sean McVay, have you ever met a coach maybe at that age especially what to you is the secret sauce to him? Because I think there's an argument even with Andy Reid, he is the best coach in America right now. He, you can argue college or pro, he may be the best coach in the world. What jumped out to you as a veteran coach with him?

Chris Peterson (16:51)

Colin, I think you're exactly right. I think this might be the best coach in the world. I mean, the. And I'll tell you why. The guy is truly a football savant. I can't tell you the type of mind he has, how he remembers things, plays. You know, we've been talking for a couple of years, things that I said to him, you know, years back that he'll bring up. And I'm thinking I said that he doesn't forget anything. So this guy truly knows offense Defense inside and out. He could be a world class defensive coordinator. So he truly is the best in terms of X's and O's, as good as anyone that I've certainly encountered. But to me, what makes him so special is, you know, before he's what, 38, he won a Super bowl, been to another one, and has the humility to say, yeah, this isn't working so well. You know, all those things that we've been after our whole life isn't feeling exactly how it should feel. And for him at that point to say, I need to figure some things out and then make the changes, it is phenomenal. Like, this guy's an inspiration to me and I can't wait till more coaches get to hear him talk. Because first of all, most coaches that are in the hot seat in their current positions aren't going to talk about being miserable and how hard this is. They're just not, they're not going to go there. Sean will. He's that secure. He has that type of humility and it's just awesome. And then for him to go and work to change his own game, it's just really like nothing I've ever seen. And so he's an inspiration across, you know, in terms of the total package of like, because it's that thing, like, you know, when you talk about change and you know, it's that cartoon, you ask, hey, who thinks we need to change? And everybody raises their hand and then the next question is, okay, who wants to change? Nobody's gonna raise their hand, right? I mean, the hardest thing we have to do in life is probably change ourselves. And this guy is full on embrace that. And so for a guy that's accomplished as much as he has, as smart as he is, to have the humility, the self awareness to go, I need to change some of these things to help myself and this pro. It has been, it's an inspiration. I can't wait for more people to really figure out and listen to Sean talk.

Colin Cowherd (19:34)

Chris Peterson, one of my absolute favorites. 14 years as a head coach, Boise State for eight, Washington for six. Coach of the Year, two time Bear Bryant award winner. We love having him at Fox. As always, coach, and I appreciate you on a, I imagine a drizzly day in Seattle, once again joining our show.

Chris Peterson (19:51)

I appreciate you calling. It's great to talk to you. And how many days do we actually have? You know, college football is kind of a train wreck outside of the Saturdays, but on Saturdays, let's go.

J. Mac (20:04)

Absolutely.

Colin Cowherd (20:05)

It's a little messy, a little Chaotic. Chris Peterson, great stuff. Fox Sports. Also Dave, Rick Bucher, Stu Holden stops by. I gotta tell you something, that, that, that, that United States men's national team four match losing streak and Christian Pulisic not joining the team. So I'm on team Pulisic on this one. He's the world, he's our best player. And I think the signal he is sending is World cup is one, being a star and being paid eight figures annually is two. And all the other stuff like the Gold cup, that's a distant third. And I think he's right. I think as our American soccer players have elevated to the point of starring in Europe, country first, cash second, all the regional tournaments distant third. So I support him. Alexi Lawless doesn't. We'll talk to Stu Holden next hour. It's the herd. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search herd to listen live or on demand, whenever you'd like. Nearly 90% of kids who vape say flavors are why they do it.

Teen Advocate (21:22)

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem like more childlike and innocent. Oh, if I try this once, it won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually it becomes a problem.

Colin Cowherd (21:34)

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect our kids from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoregonkids.org paid for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

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Colin Cowherd (23:53)

There's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified tonight is big. Could be historic. Teams that go ahead three games to one in the history of the NBA are 37 and one in the finals. Okay, so Indiana's fourth quarter supremacy. OKC starts fast. Indy finishes strong. It's at Indy. OKC looked gas, didn't get a lot of time to rest. Indy is great at home. OKC is very vulnerable at home. OKC needs the whistle when they get the whistle. When SGA gets to the free throw line more than eight times, they're 9 and 2. If not, they're a.500 team. J Mac with the news.

Chris Peterson (25:26)

No no no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

J. Mac (25:32)

You've heard of the Merchant of Venice? The Merchant of Oklahoma? That's going to be the new one when they win the title. All right, Con, let's get started here with my main man, J.J. mcCarthy. Now, I came on filling in for you two weeks ago and really gassed up the Vikings. I liked them. And you came on this week and hammered the Vikings and J.J. mcCarthy. Well, the Minnesota media take took note of and asked JJ McCarthy yesterday about the narrative of his allegedly weak arm strength.

Chris Peterson (26:00)

I would say, you know, a lot of it just comes with the stigma of playing at Michigan and, you know, not throwing the ball a lot, but at the same time, you know, it could be my frame and, you know, they don't see a 65240 guy, so how can he throw at 61 miles an hour at the combine and all that, but at the end of the day, you know, it. It's going to show up. And, you know, the people that know. No. And yeah, I think it's just, you know, the situations I've been in and maybe, you know, not passing the eye test for some people.

Colin Cowherd (26:28)

Now, first of all, the word I used to describe his arm strength was modest. His arm is. He's got a modest arm. It's okay. It's. It's Kirk Cousins. Ish. It's not a bad arm. He doesn't have a noodle arm.

J. Mac (26:43)

I'm out. Let me just interject with a fact. At the combine, he had the second highest velocity on his throw, 61 miles an hour, behind only your immortal hero, Joe Milton, remember with the Patriots, now I believe with the Cowboys. So carry on.

Colin Cowherd (27:00)

Again, his arm is fine. Do I think it's Allen Mahomes Stafford? Do I think it's. No, I don't. I think it's. It'll be somewhere between, you know, 12th and 17th in the league. It'll be. It'll be fine. He's got a fine. I watched them at Michigan. His arm is okay. His arm is Shador Sanders. It won't be an issue. It won't be a strength. It's fine.

J. Mac (27:23)

I, I would push back on that, but let me move on to the next element of this J.J. mcCarthy thing. So obviously the media was really excited about this. I'm not kidding. They took your word and were grilling McCarthy. Do you think, honestly, he turned the hat backwards because he knows that's a thing you don't like. I'm being dead serious, Colin.

Colin Cowherd (27:42)

No, I don't think he's aware of that.

J. Mac (27:45)

A lot of people are. This is like a running joke among players. The hat backwards. It's a real thing.

Chris Peterson (27:49)

You make.

Colin Cowherd (27:50)

Well, they Know, I, I have had to lecture a handful of players through the years. When I see them in person, I've told them I don't like it. I told Bo Nix, don't do that. But nobody listens to me. And I think again, I don't know what I said this yesterday. I liked Mystery with my true crime series, not with my quarterbacks. I just like to, I, I, I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports. Much like Sadur Sanders, he got a great landing spot. Justin Jefferson, a great left tackle. And Kevin o' Connell and just like Cleveland, Kevin Stefanski, like that helps. So do I think that helps? Do I think it's harder to be Caleb Williams with Matt eber floose than JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix that get an offensive coach that, that, I think that's about 50% of the game for these young quarterbacks is who do you land with? Chaos or an offensive guy. So I'm just, I'm not saying it's not going to work. I just, I see Mystery. His arm is modest, but we should.

J. Mac (28:52)

Have seen Patrick Mahomes getting the gifted landing spot of Andy Reid. And oh, by the way, that guy, I believe his name was Tyreek Hill, who was an electrifying game breaking receiver at the time. So you know Mahomes, he got, he got it better than JJ McCarthy's got it and he got to sit for a year behind Alex Smith. That's about as good as it gets. Let's get to the next story. And that's the 49ers. Colin, big off season for them on the defensive side of the football and they made some offensive moves as well. They do retain the core of Purdy, Kittle and Warner, not to mention McCaffrey coming off a 6 and 11 season. Steve Young loves how the front office handled things.

Chris Peterson (29:29)

I'm, I'm very happy with how they handled the off season. Had a clear plan. It was a plan that was, it was retooling. It wasn't a complete restructure. Now what has to happen is your veterans need to stay healthy. Trent Williams, number one.

Colin Cowherd (29:47)

That's exact. He, he is exactly right. The story for the Niners because you've lost two very good defensive players in the linebacking unit and the safety spot. Trent Williams is the key. Debo's gone now. Cross your fingers on iuk's health. It's it. And by the way, cross your fingers on Christian McCaffrey's health. He's got a lot of carries and, and Trent Williams, that's The key to this whole, you know, I've told you before, take Brock Purdy out of It When Christian McCaffrey doesn't play, Shanahan's record is under 500. Forget Brock. When Christian doesn't play, they don't win as much. Do you think he's going to play 17 games?

J. Mac (30:29)

I don't, I don't want him playing 17 games. Take some weeks off when you're, you know, 12 and three and coasting to the number one seed in the NFC final story. Colin is to the NBA. Now, this is interesting. We get a slow drip almost daily of Giannis Crumbs coming out of Milwaukee. The latest, which I think is total balderdash. Milwaukee allegedly is be. Is pitching Giannis on. Hey, hey, you can have the ball in your hands more next season if you stay. And here's the problem. He led the league in usage this past season. Like, what the hell are you talking about?

Colin Cowherd (31:04)

Bucks.

J. Mac (31:05)

And that's why I just, just don't believe this crap. And a lot of those guys are point guards or, or guards that are. He heavy with the ball. Giannis is a big. Colin. I just don't get it. He was second in touches per game behind Dame on his team. So he's getting the ball a lot.

Colin Cowherd (31:23)

And I don't want him with the ball with two minutes left because he's not a good free throw shooter. So that's. If that's the pitch. If, if that's your pitch, it's not much of a pitch. I've said this. You got a title with Lou Alcinder at the time, you got a title with Giannis. A lot of these small markets, I mean, if you look at dynasties, the history, Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, multiple times Chicago players more attracted to those areas. A lot of the small markets that win, they get one. A majority of the small markets who are really good don't even get one. You got one. Pat yourself on the back, you got one, you can get four firsts. I mean, if you go to, if you go to Houston, you could get Shen Goon another starter and three first minimum in an era over the next 10 years where draft picks are going to be better players because college basketball, due to the nil, is retaining the more of its top players and stealing more of Europe's top young players. So, like, to me, draft picks are better going forward than they have in the previous 10, 15 years. So I mean, to me, this, this fear sometimes of small markets, of, you know, oh, we're losing our star Oklahoma City, Westbrook, Harden, Kevin Durant left. They're back in the finals because they came to terms with. Some guys aren't happy. What we're not going to do is bottom out. And I think Milwaukee's closer to bottoming out even with Giannis than being great 100%. Now go do do it. Boston did. Danny Ainge rebuilt the Celtics. They were still viable. Milwaukee is not a viable team right now.

J. Mac (33:11)

Colin, just to hammer home your point. Listen, I get it. Milwaukee was excited that Giannis, who was taken, what, 13th overall, became a star, like a global ambassador. But fans need to realize like, hey man, we drafted you. You played here for eight, nine years. If you want to go somewhere else, that's your prerogative, you can do that. I, I hate this idea that fans think, hey, we drafted that guy, he's ours forever. That's not how life works. If Giannis wants to go see the world or America, let him do it. This idea, if he asks for a trading and people blast him and rip him. Listen, I'm just, I'm going to hate that man.

Colin Cowherd (33:44)

90% of even great pro athletes do not do a Kobe or a Jeter or an Elway. It doesn't work that way, especially in the mobility of society. So I don't know how many years Giannis is beginning to end been in Milwaukee. It's over 10 years right from the.

J. Mac (34:01)

Day and LeBron with OKC, you've got.

Colin Cowherd (34:03)

Division titles, you've got conference champions, you've got a ring. Now go get four draft picks. Shen Goon, an all star center, another starter rebuild I love. By the way, one of the fun parts about being a sports fan is the growth, the rebuild. I mean, you don't think these okc, they've been selling out every game for like five years. These OKC fans, they love this. All these guys are young. That's part of what's great about basketball or football is the rebuild. Now you can do it faster in football than basketball, but I mean, how exciting would it be if you're tomorrow. I told you. The Bucs have four first rounders, an all star center from Houston, another center. That's not exciting and you got to grow with a team. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd Line newspaper 12 years. Rick Bucher thoughts on tonight. Indiana wins tonight. They're winning the championship. They're winning the championship 37 and 1. If you take a three games to one lead, it is there isn't outside of Indiana there's not a gm, a coach or a player that would pick the Pacers. This is crazy and we may see some history. Rick Bucher next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, we're Covino and Rich, FOX Sports Radio. Every day Fox to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing.

Rick Bucher (35:39)

We never have enough time to get.

Colin Cowherd (35:41)

To everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips, blaming me. Well, you know what? It's called Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been over promising women for years. Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised. Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promise. And also uncensored, by the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a little harder.

Rick Bucher (36:22)

It's gonna be the best after show.

Colin Cowherd (36:24)

Podcast of all time. There you go. Over Promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Teen Advocate (36:36)

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Colin Cowherd (37:05)

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Colin Cowherd (39:11)

End of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified. Well, tonight everything is on the line. I said this a couple days ago. Here's the bad news for okc. They're A young team and all the pressure's on them. I mean, it feels like Indy's been playing with house money since Milwaukee. So the younger team is on the road where they're not nearly as good and all the pressures on them to win because of the favorite. Oh, and by the way, they've struggled in the fourth quarter and I would argue the best playoff fourth quarter team is Indiana in the playoffs. There are a lot of things, and I had said this before the series, a favorite. They're very rarely in my life has a favorite to win the NBA championship in the Finals been one of the younger teams. How do young players react to trying to clinch this series, even if they're the better team? And right now I'm not sure they're the better team. Rick Bucher is joining us live. You and I were talking during the break. There's. I think Indiana knew kind of what they were getting. This, this 10 deep defensive rush, dominant score. I don't know if OKC thought Benedict Matheran was this good and TJ McConnell was this irritating. I feel like you have these two ascending young players and they're creating havoc and OKC has been dislodged a little bit. And that's my take this Matheran kid. I mean, I said the other day, there's a little Westbrook here, like his energy. You loved him out of college.

Rick Bucher (41:30)

Yes, yes, I know I loved him when he got drafted. I loved his attitude coming out was fearless and I believe that he could be this kind of guy. He needed to pull it back a little bit and become a little more efficient. But he has done that and he has been a difference maker. Okc, I believe, knew what they were going to be facing when it came to Indiana. I think the rest of the world did not, has not appreciated what the Pacers have had and how perfectly constructed they are to create problems for OKC and that we think OKC of having the depth and versatility. And they did. They had that, but so does Indiana. And they also, and this may be the biggest difference they have in Rick Carlisle, a guy who's already won a championship, manipulating an underdog roster and winning a title. He's been to the, to the playoffs 16 times. He's won a championship with a team under similar circumstances. Mark Dagnall is a fifth year head coach making his second appearance in the final, in the, in the playoffs and has never been to the finals before. And so he's having to react and counterpunch with a guy who just understands this platform and what he's doing on a far higher level. And I think that that's why you're seeing Rick Carlisle do something very unorthodox. He's playing a nine man rotation. You had nine guys in game three play 15 minutes or more for the Indiana Pacers. Oklahoma City Thunder went with the traditional seven game seven man rotation, and you saw them gassed and exhausted. The pacers pressed them 94ft for 48 minutes. Rick Carlisle decided, you know what? I don't know if my stars are as great as their stars, but I believe that I'm more versatile and I'm going to test the endurance. I'm going to make this a war of attrition, because that's the one thing that I have is I believe that I have more players that I can play more minutes than OKC can. They've got to rely on their stars, Jalen Williams and SGA to drive the bus on everything. I've got a Benedict Matheran coming off the bench and a TJ McConnell who can go get their own buckets. And I can give Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam some rest so that when we do get to the fourth quarter, all my bodies are fresh.

Colin Cowherd (44:06)

You know, with the new aprons and the cba, you can't stack rosters anymore. Boston was the last one to have like a little bit of a stacked roster. I would argue that point guard, I mean, when I was a kid growing up, centers won titles. Then it was Jordan and Kobe, it was wings. I think we can make an argument that point guards, efficient point guards that can score and elevate could be the next 10 years. You can't stack rosters. So what you have to do is get a player that can elevate others and make B guys, B plus, B plus guys, A minus. I think Halliburton could be the model. And maybe I'm being hyperbolic here, but all these aprons, we're done with stacking. It's over. Yeah, you can't. You can't do that. And I look at Halliburton, I'm like, that is the ideal player for Adam Silver's new NBA, is it not?

Rick Bucher (45:01)

Yeah, I believe that whether it's a point guard or a point forward, but having a playmaker or multiple playmakers is the answer. Because one of the things that makes Indiana again so challenging is that it's not just Halliburton, but Andrew Nemhardt handles the ball and initiates the offense as much as Halliburton does. They've got multiple TJ McConnell coming off the bench. You have multiple guys who wouldn't be described as great but just very good. And they have eight, nine players as a result that can feed off of those playmakers and are not going to cost you the same as having like the Phoenix Suns with Bradley Beal and Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. I don't believe that the Big three model has worked for the last four or five years. If you really break down the teams that have won championships, but having playmakers who can make lesser players better and scorers and guys who don't necessarily have to score, who can just create for others, I do believe that that's the secret sauce and having depth and versatility and spreading the wealth literally in terms of how you spend your money is the future of the NBA.

Colin Cowherd (46:19)

So listen, KD is easier to trade for than Giannis because you don't have to give up as much draft capital. And I've made this argument, Rick. I think over the next 10 to 15 years we're going to go back to the old, the Tim Duncan era, the Christian, the Grant Hill era where college players are on a percentage basis going to be safer picks because more players because of NIL are staying for another year in college and the NIL is cherry picking many of the top European players. Illinois is going to have five European international starters.

Rick Bucher (46:50)

Right.

Colin Cowherd (46:50)

So college basketball went through about a 20 year run where the player of the year, a Doug McDermott or a Tyler Hansborough, was a rotational NBA guy.

Rick Bucher (46:58)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (46:58)

And I think two years ago that UConn team that won is the beginning of a next decade of if you got six NBA guys, these guys, these guys are going to come in and be able to play. So I think draft picks will mean more going forward. So I don't want to give them up. You don't have to give up much for kd. Is there, is there a fit that you. I don't think it works in San Antonio, but is there a fit to you where he really works and a team has the capital to get him?

Rick Bucher (47:25)

Boy, that's a tough question. I would say no, not necessarily. Because the two, the first teams that come to mind are Minnesota and New York in terms of a place where he could go and would be playing for a title and potentially make a difference. But you're going to have to give up. Even if you're not giving up draft capital, you still have to give up players from your rotation. And can KD at this stage of his career be a big enough factor to make up for the players that you have to give up. People seem to forget that when he went to the Golden State warriors, yes, they let Harrison Barnes go, but for the most part it was because there was this big bonanza of TV money that came in that they could sign him as a free agent. And at that point, KD still had the wherewithal to become their best rebounder, to be a shot blocker, to be a defensive presence and at the same time be their leading scorer or have an impact offensively. I just don't know that he has the game at this point. And the teams that would be looking to acquire him have the wherewithal to make a deal that's not going to undercut them overall. They're not just adding KD to what they have. They're going to have to give up pieces of some magnitude, contract wise, in order to acquire him.

Colin Cowherd (48:55)

Finally tonight, J. Mack has been very, very good picking the Pacers. He liked them against Cleveland. I've been more reluctant, but I think they have so many levers they can pull and Carlisle is so good at it. I think I like Indiana tonight as well. What do you say?

Rick Bucher (49:13)

I don't see Indiana losing another home game. And so that includes tonight. In fact, I would expect that tonight's game may not be as dramatic as the last one.

Colin Cowherd (49:26)

Wow.

Rick Bucher (49:27)

I just think Indiana has found the formula. If they take care of the ball, they're going to be good. And I just, I don't know what Mark Dago goes to, especially 48 hours after Wednesday's game where clearly SGA, Jaylen Williams and Chet Holmgren ran out of gas at the end. I expect that the Carile is going to come with the same, the exact same game plan. And I don't really see a, a counterpunch for, for OKC unless, unless Alex Caruso has the kind of game that he had in Game two. But they're going to have to win the bench battle. And I don't know that I see the role players for OKC doing that on Indiana's home floor.

Colin Cowherd (50:13)

You know, that's a great, that's a great point. And we've talked about this for years. Role players and bench players, you get a huge, there's a big delta in their performance based on where your stars are. Your stars, Shaq and Kobe were good everywhere. But your role players and your bench guys can be phenomenal. I mean, the second quarter for Indiana's bench was, it was, I don't remember a playoff finals game. I was like the bench is winning the game.

Rick Bucher (50:39)

Benedict Matheran was their leading scorer off the bench and he didn't play in the first quarter at all. And Carlisle went to his bench four and a half minutes into the game. That's the formula is I'm going to play more guys than you play and I'm going to trust them to get the job done because I don't have to rely. I mean, if you look at the way the series has gone, Halliburton hit the game winner in game one. But by and large, it's not like Siakam and Halliburton have carried this team to these two wins. It has been as much Benedict Matheran and Andrew Nemhardt and Miles Turner and Obi Toppin all coming to the table and providing something.

Colin Cowherd (51:21)

Rick Bucher. As always, buddy, have a great weekend. Enjoy tonight.

Rick Bucher (51:24)

Happy Father's Day.

Colin Cowherd (51:26)

Yeah, that Benedict Matheran, you guys were all giving me crap when I said he's got a little Westbrook. Played in the Pac12. Most athletic guy in his roster. He's the most athletic pacer, insanely confident, A little loose. A little loose. There are moments you're like, slow it down. But I don't know, man, this. This kid is. And plays bigger than his size. That is Westbrook. Westbrook was super athletic, incredibly confident, ridiculous energy. Plays bigger than his size. And sometimes you're like, slow it down. Turn the governor on just a little bit. You're going a little hot. This kid is. I'm gonna stick with it. I don't care what you say. I think. I think he's got low. He may not be as good as Westbrook all time. Westbrook's gonna be a hall of famer, but the kid is. Jumps off the TV screen. Hour three, next.

Teen Advocate (52:23)

Use of flavored tobacco by teens is a crisis. Tobacco companies use flavors like cotton candy, watermelon ice and cool mint to hook kids like me. They seem harmless, but they aren't. Addiction to nicotine sets us up for a lifetime of health problems. Oregon legislators can do something about it. Passing Senate Bill 702A will keep flavored tobacco away from kids. But there are just a few short weeks left for lawmakers to act. Take action to protect kids like me. @ flavorshookorgankids.org paid for by the Campaign.

Colin Cowherd (52:51)

For Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund. Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And degree listened to. That doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and they're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant and it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under four bucks. So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself.

Teen Advocate (54:38)

This is an I Heart podcast.