Jason McIntyre (4:16)

Victoria and company did a great job. Hey, I was talking with a couple producers during the break. Who wins in a battle? 100 adult males or one gorilla.

Colin Cowherd (4:25)

Yeah, I've heard that thing. It's fascinating. No, real strong opinion. Apparently it's taken over the Internet.

Greg Cosell (4:31)

Yes.

Jason McIntyre (4:32)

So come on, get off the fence, big guy.

Colin Cowherd (4:34)

Who you got at one time? Yeah, I probably take the adult probably. Okay. I mean, again, this is something I haven't spent one second on. I would hope show prep would take precedence over this. Okay, so there. We'll get to Greg Cosell in a couple of minutes. Eli Manning is putting a bid together for a minority interest in the Giants. So I know Eli, I really like this idea. Since Eli Manning moved out of his prime The New York Giants have been. They've made so many bad decisions. Nick I like Brian Daboll. Finally they have a coach I like and he better win or he's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many bad decisions. Head coaches, quarterbacks, general managers, that's upstairs stuff. Ask yourself this, when's the last time the Hunt family with the Chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or missed on a on a first round quarterback signing draft? It just doesn't happen very often. Since 2017, the Giants are last in wins and 31st in point differential and points per game and sack differential. It's a bad franchise that's upstairs. Stop blaming the coaches. Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs. Like if you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence that Washington ran out the worst owner in the league and tripled their win total. It's not just Jaden Daniels. Jaden doesn't do it without the right coordinator, the right general manager, the right culture. Jaden would have not have done that with the previous group. They just kept getting in their way. And I'll say this, you can trust Eli and I know. I'll give you an example of why I like the Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas. So Texas is a massive football brand like Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas. Big Arch Manning doesn't get a start first year, second year. And by the way, I think he's better than Quinn yours. I think if he would have been in the draft this year without starting in college, somebody would have taken him in the second round. I really believe that this quarterback draft, somebody would have taken Arch Manning second and said, we're going to go with jeans. Archie was good, Eli was good. Peyton, we're just going to go with jeans. And yet he didn't transfer. He's been a team player. It's so Manning, like dignity, thoughtful class. New York Giants, they got an upstairs problem. I said the Chicago Bears, finally, with Ben Johnson, like controlling the draft. Chicago for years, Detroit, before Dan Campbell and their new GM and executive suite. Detroit had an upstairs problem. They didn't have a quarterback problem. That Stafford was great. So we always look in this sport, whenever a team loses, that's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The Giants do. That doesn't mean the Maras are totally inept, but they need a fresh set of eyes and ears. And the Mannings, they make really good decisions. Football decisions, parenting decisions, business decisions. They just make really good decisions. With that 45 years NFL Films Greg Cosell is joining us so let's just talk football, forget all the other nonsense, right? If Pittsburgh. So the Rams, my understanding didn't really. Shador was not on their board as a starter. They like Jackson Dart. New York Giants liked Jackson Dart over Shador. There's nothing wrong with that. I had a friend of mine who's a former gm, he liked Jackson Dart a lot. Not as much as Cam Ward, but he liked him more than Shador. He liked him a lot. So. And I think everybody thinks Cam was the best quarterback in a weak class. Pittsburgh Steelers, according to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there were not in the starting quarterback hunt. They looked at next year. I'm told the Rams looked at next year. The Browns trading down early, told you next year's class. We'll go get backups this year. So if I was a GM and I wasn't into Shadors playing, what on film? Did you watch that you believe Greg could turn a general manager off and just not see him as an elite quarterback prospect?

Greg Cosell (8:57)

Well, I think that, that I think relates to what the league has become. Colin, for starting quality starting quarterbacks, we're talking about guys that were top five quarterbacks in the league. Because if you're drafting Sanders High, that's what you're expecting him to be, a top five quarterback in the league. So what you're dealing with is a player who's essentially a pocket quarterback if he's to become a really good quarterback in the NFL. At his core he's a pocket player.

Colin Cowherd (9:23)

Now.

Greg Cosell (9:23)

He's not immobile. It's not as if he's a statue. But at his core he would have to be successful as a pocket player and as a pocket quarterback. His traits are good, not great. So where does that kind of player get drafted in the NFL and what does he become in the NFL? He's a pocket quarterback with good traits. He's a lower level. CJ Stroud. CJ Stroud is essentially a pocket quarterback, is bigger, he's a better thrower. So C.J. stroud was drafted second and has done well in his first two years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback in terms of his approach to the way in which he plays, but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and doesn't throw it as well. So where does that player get drafted? That's why he was all over the board just as a player. Putting everything else aside, I. I had coaches tell me that they thought he was a backup. I had coaches tell me he was a first round pick. I had coaches telling Me, he's a third round pick. So he was all over the board because his traits are not quite at the level where it's unanimous or obvious as to what he projects to be at the NFL level.

Colin Cowherd (10:32)

So again, let's keep it to football. If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because I know two people that prefer Jackson Dart, what did see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, oh, I like that. That's better than Shadour?

Greg Cosell (10:46)

Well, I. That gets into the same question. I think you have the mobility factor. I think Jackson Dart, while he's not explosive and dynamic, Jackson Dart, his legs are a factor. So now you get into the fact that he can make plays on third down with his legs and that changes the way defenses have to play. See, the thing is, you have to think about now the NFL, we're not just doing this in a vacuum. We're projecting players and you see him right here, we're projecting players to play in the NFL and what that means. So the fact that he can beat you with his legs means that that changes at times in critical down and distance situations, the way defenses have to play. His arm is probably as good or maybe even a little better than Sanders and he has that mobility and that's a key, key factor. So Jackson Dart could easily be seen and he was by some teams, just the football part, as a better prospect than Chador Sanders.

Colin Cowherd (11:41)

So it's interesting, I thought the Bears, because the last two years in free agents, I know, I said, greg, they're going to go defense. They didn't. They went offense again. I mean, last year they did it draft and free agency. This year they did it free agency and draft. So Ben Johnson saying, listen, I'm going to clean up my side of the ball. We'll get the defense later. So they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden, who's a really could be a very interesting player, and Ozzy Torpedo, who Matt Hasselbeck, by the way, likes. What did you make? Me too. Yeah. What did you make of those first three picks and how they'll help Caleb Williams?

Greg Cosell (12:22)

Well, they're going to play a lot of 12 personnel. You know, a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren, but Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them because Cole Kit stylistically is the same kind of player. We could say Warren's better, but stylistically in the context of their offense, they're the same player. So they went with the more athletic, the tight end in, in Loveland who gives them more. So they'll play with 12 personnel at times, and they'll be really difficult. And then Luther Burden, I mean, I loved Luther Burden's tape and I think Luther Burton in the context of a Ben Johnson offense. And I'm not going to sit here and say he's going to do exactly what Amon Ross St. Brown did, because you never know. But I think that he stylistically fits that role in a Ben Johnson offense. And I think, you know, with Bird now, they can line up in 12 personnel with two tight ends. They can line up in 11 personnel with a Dunes, A Moore and Burden. I mean, this is a really, really good offense in terms of the skill players. And Tropillo didn't surprise me at all that he went where he did. I studied his tape. He's a really good player. He played right tackle at bc. They're going to have to make a decision as to who becomes the left tackle, whether they can move Tripillo there, who's played that in college, or Darnell Wright, who's been there right tackle. But Tropillo is a really, really good prospect. So I love what they did on the offensive side of the ball.

Colin Cowherd (13:43)

So it was pretty obvious there were certain teams, and I think the Chargers are one, where I had had dinner with their offensive coordinator a couple days before, a week before the draft actually, and he said, listen, we have a really good football team. We need a little bit more juice on offense. Well, they went and got it with Trey Harris and Hampton. Let's talk about the Chargers. Let's talk about Hampton the running back and Trey Harris. What does that provide that they didn't have last year?

Greg Cosell (14:11)

Well, I love Murray and Hampton. I loved his tape. I didn't think there was much of a difference at all between Hampton and Genti. To me, Hampton just looked like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought, and I could see that, that there were similarities to Jonathan Taylor stylistically. And he is clearly the kind of back that you could give the ball 20 times a game to. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they want to run the football. You know, we know that's the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to start their offense. So now you get the play action pass game off of that. And last year they had pretty good success at times with the play action pass game. So now they can do more of it. Harris is an intriguing guy. I watched him last summer, Colin from 2023 when he had a big year. This year he got hurt after seven games. I saw every game, every Snap. I kept going back and forth on him. I just wasn't sure if he was a vertical dimension in the league. He's long and he has stride length, but he didn't run real well. And I'm just really curious as to what he will be. I'm a little uncertain about him, but I know a lot of people liked him. I just kept going back and forth in my mind. I'm very curious to see what he becomes in the National Football League. But the Hamp Hampton pick, I absolutely love that.

Colin Cowherd (15:23)

So I was told that Seattle wants to play Jalen Milroe in six or seven plays a game, is that they just think he's too athletic not to get on the field. And I mean, they're. They're. I mean, there were times with Lamar Jackson, you watched them his first year, you're like, is he the best athlete on either team? I mean, Michael Vick had that component. Milroe is a sensational athlete. Yeah, we know he can be a bit mechanical. But what does he do from your film study that you think immediately translates to production in the NFL now?

Greg Cosell (15:59)

Well, I think one of the things that's become really big in this league, and you see it with the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar, is the importance of the quarterback run game, the design. Quarterback runs game in the red zone, and I think that's where Milroe can be a factor. Don't forget that McDonald spent a year or so with. With Baltimore, so he knows all about the quarterback run game and the design of it and how it can really break down and attack defenses. And that's where I think Milroe can become a factor. But I actually really like Seattle's draft as a whole. Colin, Same here. They traded up to get Nick Emenwari, and I'm sure all of us immediately thought that's Kyle Hamilton and the Mike McDonald defense because they're. They're stylistically similar players. So their defense. And maybe people are sleeping on it, but what they've done defensively this offseason and what they built offensively, they could be one of the best defensive teams in the NFL this year.

Colin Cowherd (16:55)

Yeah, no, he was. He was. He was the safety from South Carolina. I was told this by a couple people. He was. He's kind of a can't miss. He's just so raggy and so athletic. He. There are very few guys that are can't miss. And, you know, you'd think, oh, he'd go in the first round. But safety's a different position. But he kind of feels like I can't miss in the NFL. So I want to go back to Travis Hunter. So you looked at him as a corner, and you look at him as a receiver. If I said to you, Greg, he ended up being a Pro Bowler at one position. If you had to guess, based on your film story, there was what he was good at both. But one of them, he becomes a Pro Bowler. Which side would you predict?

Greg Cosell (17:37)

I mean, he's, you know, I think that early on he would have a better chance of being a Pro Bowler as a receiver than as a corner. Interesting, because I think as a corner we know about the physical traits, but you watch his tape and as a corner, he doesn't really play with any technique because he's never had to. And I think in the NFL he'll have to. But I think the larger question with Travis Hunter, and again, I don't listen to what everybody says, Colin, so I don't know if this has been talked about, but I think the larger issue is not whether he can play 115 or 120 snaps a game. Maybe he's just that freak that can. But the issue is preparation during the week. He can't be in the offensive and the defensive meetings at the same time. And you know how coaches, how anal coaches are about their meetings and their details and their nuance and, you know, you just can't be in both meetings. There's not enough hours in the day. So I'm very curious to see how that works because you can't be part of both sides of the ball in all the detail that's required.

Colin Cowherd (18:41)

Yeah. Finally, when you looked at Ashton Genty's tape, I imagine the Oregon game, the Oregon game is one that you really zoned in on because they have NFL players everywhere. It is harder to make a guess if you're playing smaller schools. What is the one? The first time you looked at Ashton, Jenny, who's now a Raider, the first time you looked at his tape and went, okay, this, you know, it's Boise State. This is real. This is a real difference maker. Was there something that popped for you, a tendency or a traitor that you had seen before and went, yeah, that's McCaffrey or that's whoever.

Greg Cosell (19:16)

Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in the NFL, you've got to run inside between the tackles. You can't be a great back in the NFL by just running on the perimeter. So he has this unique ability to absorb hits and keep going without really losing any of his momentum, and that's a rare trait. So to me, his best trait is contact balance. And that's something that is absolutely essential. Now he's got other traits as well. I don't want to make it seem like that's his only trait. Obviously, he's a great, great prospect, but I think the contact balance part is really, really special.

Colin Cowherd (19:51)

By the way, I want to add this. I watched virtually every pick and I know it didn't have a lot of stars, but it's hard to convince me there weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon, Ohio State linebacker, went in the fourth, I thought he was a really good player. I mean, he was the heart and soul of that defense. And Damian Martinez, who I watched play. Yeah, that time, Greg, I can't believe he's a 10th round running back. You didn't get it either.

Greg Cosell (20:20)

Yeah, no, that. That to me. And again, all I can tell you is how I evaluate the players. I'm not one who speaks about whether teams did a good job or bad job because they've got 30 people doing this and these guys work really hard. But I really like Damian Martinez. I watched him last summer when he was at Oregon State. I watched him this year at the University of Miami. I think this guy in the right system could actually be a feature back. And to be honest with you. And we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it plays out in camp. But I personally think he's a better runner now. Again, there may be other elements here, but he's a better runner than Zach Charbonnet. And you know, Zach Charbonnet right now is the number two back in Seattle. So we'll see how it plays out through otas minicamp and training camp. But I really like Damian Martinez. I was really surprised he went in the seventh round.

Colin Cowherd (21:08)

Yeah, no, no, that jumped out to me. I said, okay, you can tell me. This isn't a great draft. That is an NFL. You think he's a feature back? All I know is that guy, I watched him in college. He was five yards a carry run over. People run past him. He was five yards a carry.

Greg Cosell (21:23)

And power translates. You know, that's the thing. There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL as we know, Colin, but power is one thing at all positions that normally translates. And he's a powerful runner.

Colin Cowherd (21:36)

Greg Cosell, 45 years, NFL Films. Good seeing you again. Smart stuff as always, Greg.

Greg Cosell (21:42)

Thanks, Colin. Really appreciate it.

Colin Cowherd (21:44)

You bet. How about that J. Mac, the one guy in the draft I went what? How is he a seventh round player? You know J. Mac, I may bail on the show and end up being a scout here in the very near future.

Jason McIntyre (21:55)

What area scout in Chicago? Come on. Are you going to be going to Big Ten games outdoors in November? Stop it. You're not being no scout. College, okay?

Colin Cowherd (22:04)

Hey, I'm taking the train to work. I'm a new guy. That's all I'm going to say is.

Jason McIntyre (22:07)

A man of the people. I like it that we're in bright pink shirts on national television.

Colin Cowherd (22:11)

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Jason McIntyre (27:04)

All right, let's get started with Lakers Wolves. Lakers were four and a half point favorites. It's up to six. Colin, you might be onto something. Let's talk about Anthony Edwards. He had that 43 point performance in game four. A lot of physicality and trash talking. Chris Finch, guest of this show, has not been surpr. I've been with him long enough to know that doubting him is not a really good strategy. He has a great sense of the moment. Colin, we saw three teams last night have a chance to close it out. Boston did. Right. But the Knicks did not have the urgency. Right. I'm sure you noticed that. Pacers did not have the urgency. They were able to pull it off lucky late. I'm just curious, do you think the Wolves close it out tonight at crypto?

Colin Cowherd (27:47)

I don't. I think the Lakers survive. It is interesting though. We talked about the earlier story when Zach Lowe came out, a respected NBA analyst and said, yeah, like Luke is a bad defensive player. I was thinking, well, he is. He's a bad defensive player.

Jason McIntyre (28:04)

He's bad.

Colin Cowherd (28:06)

Yeah, he's pretty bad. I mean, teams pick on him. That's a pretty good indicate. Carl Anthony Town. Teams pick on and that's the first sign you're not good. It's like a cornerback in the NFL. If a team, a quarterback goes after you, you're the weak corner. So it's interesting. A year ago, if I would have said, three years ago, if I would have said to you Ja Morant or Ant, the league would have taken Ja. If I said a year ago, Luka or Ant, the league would have taken Luka. I bet you half the GMs today watching this series. Ant's defense, I mean, it's been impressive.

Jason McIntyre (28:40)

Yes.

Colin Cowherd (28:41)

I'm telling you. Michael Jordan, when he came into this league was all offense. And then, I mean, it was, it was, it was a great offensive player, but he was all relentless. But Michael, over time became a great basketball teammate as well. It was. He couldn't win those playoff series, you know, for years until Pippen arrives, you start watching Ant, he has now jumped over the Zion Ja Morant crowd that he was behind. I think you look at Luka and let's be honest here, Luka's not in the shape and is. He doesn't defend. And now Ant's giving you the same high level of offense. If you're asking me who I would take next 10 years, I would take Ant easily.

Jason McIntyre (29:20)

All right. The Luka slander must stop. Okay, let's slow down. He was injured and missed like 25 games this year and he was traded. That being said on Ant specifically, he's been unstoppable. I saw crazy stat just now. Colin, he's had 70 ISO plays in the series. Do you want to know how many times the Lakers have double teamed Anthony edwards of those 70 isolations? Trick question. 800 doubles from JJ Redick. Now part of that could be because Randall is 45 from three in the series. He can't miss. McDaniels is 42. They're not missing. So you can't double ant, right? Those guys are hitting. You're gonna get blown out. Those games in Minnesota were coin toss games. I, I hate to say this because I, you know, I love to think I know everything about basketball. I don't know what Reddit can do here other than hey man, dfs, Austin Reeds, you're on an island with ants. You got, you gotta just either let him get two, don't let him get three.

Colin Cowherd (30:15)

Well the other thing we've seen in these playoffs historically role players shrink in the postseason, especially on the road. We all love Austin Reeves, but when you watch the Tatums and the, the star players in this league, Jamal Murray, who's always been not an all star but really good, he's rising in big moments. Austin Reaves has had a lot of bad halves, like a lot. And that's one of those things. That's what I say about Brock Purdy. I'm not doubting he's a franchiser. I'm not doubting Austin's the Lakers third best player. But it does feel like Austin as the league is allowed more physicality. It has hurt Austin Reeves game a little bit.

Jason McIntyre (31:02)

I don't think that's wrong. He did have I think five threes last game and a good look to try the game at the end. The thing about like I think Ant is a tougher matchup than sga and I know SGA is going to win mvp, but he's not a great three point shooter. Ant led the league in three point makes. Like I mean I Know, we call him the free throw merchant sga. But ant to me is a tougher defender. Like the Lakers don't have any. Who do you put on him? Colin lebron.

Colin Cowherd (31:26)

Yeah. Yeah. And here's the other thing is that the T Wolves played in more clutch games, more close games. It's a big benefit. Now, we've talked about this before is that the Detroit Lions last year blew. I mean, go back to their first 12 weeks the year before, go back to the Ravens first 13 weeks and then you get into the playoffs and like, well, timeout. It's all situational. Minnesota. Well, how many four point games was Minnesota in this year? Ant's been in these games so many times they're just built for playoff basketball in close games.

Jason McIntyre (32:06)

I got Lakers tonight. You do as well. Lakers money line.

Colin Cowherd (32:09)

I think I would take the six and a half with Minnesota. I think the Lakers survive. That's a lot of points to give up to a team that doesn't trust their bench. I mean, Lakers Reddick, say what you want. Does not want to play Jackson Hayes against a team that's already bigger. Well, maybe that's a problem.

Jason McIntyre (32:26)

Coming home, Gabe Vincent shows up. Just give me 10 points. That's it. Off. Let's go to the NFL. Colin. Everybody's waiting for Aaron Rodgers decision. Everyone thinks it will be the Steelers. Well, your favorite podcaster, Ben Roethlisberger has chimed in on the Aaron Rodgers situation. Here we go.

D (32:43)

At some point though, they need to.

Colin Cowherd (32:44)

Set a deadline because at some point.

Greg Cosell (32:47)

Aaron needs to start learning the offense.

D (32:48)

I mean, you know, start get with the guys.

Greg Cosell (32:51)

So what is that cutoff date? I don't know. Only Coach Tomlin and Mr. Rooney and.

Colin Cowherd (32:56)

I want to know that at some point you have to say it's what's best for our team is to just probably move on. Sure.

Greg Cosell (33:03)

And that might sound crazy because it's Aaron Rodgers.

Colin Cowherd (33:05)

Right.

Greg Cosell (33:06)

But at some point, like, you start questioning, like, does Aaron really want to play?

Colin Cowherd (33:12)

Well, according to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette writer, the Steelers were not in this draft looking for a starter they're looking to next year. So I think they're looking at Aaron. I mean, if this may be uncomfortable for Steeler fans, but are the Steelers just saying, listen, we're not a Super bowl team, we can be good with Aaron. We're not going to be great. He's a pocket quarterback in his 40s. Is that. Nobody wants to hear this, but if you're going into a draft and you don't aggressively with Pittsburgh's fairly stacked roster if you don't move up, up to get even, you could have taken like a Jackson dart. You could have. I don't think you could have gotten Cam Ward. It tells you not only the quarterback class wasn't great, but it tells you like, I think we have to be honest about Pittsburgh this year. The, hey, we never have a losing season thing, it just isn't tracking. And I think if they take a step back, get a better draft pick. You think I'm crazy on this. If the Steelers win eight games this year with Aaron eight to nine, they're going to be picking 14th. You're not getting Arch Manning with that. You're not. You're going to have to make a decision on one of your great defensive players. The only way to get. I mean, I'll say it again. T.J. watt is not winning playoff games for you. For the Steelers are going to be too good roster wise. If Aaron plays to be a top 10 team, they're going to be like 15. Well, how do you get to two, three or four? It's not just draft picks. People want players. If you're going to move up in a great quarterback draft class, I guess.

Jason McIntyre (34:49)

The counter would be if you're Mike Tomlin. Can you look yourself in the mirror every morning knowing Mason Rudolph is your starting quarterback?

Colin Cowherd (34:56)

I can.

Jason McIntyre (34:56)

No shot.

Colin Cowherd (34:57)

None.

Jason McIntyre (34:57)

It's over. Season is over. You're going nowhere.

Colin Cowherd (35:00)

I'm sorry. I can. If I've been given assurances by ownership, I'm okay, I will go back.

Jason McIntyre (35:06)

I don't want to tell his full story, but Eric Mangini, you know, jets guy, just ask him his Brett Favre story with the jets owner and, and, and I'm sure there's other coaches who have been through this, but don't trust billionaires. Colin, I'm sure you as a business owner, you know this. Be careful taking the word from billionaires. These owners are impetuous. They do whatever they want. So I, I don't know. We'll see. Coming up. Final story here. J.J. mcCarthy is coming off two knee surgeries this offseason. Not great. But he's been cleared this spring for full participation in the vikings offseason program. McCarthy is very confident in himself as the team is in him.

Greg Cosell (35:43)

I know I'm ready to start.

Colin Cowherd (35:45)

I appreciate that question, Kevin, because all the work I put in and just the confidence in my skills and abilities and just being able to do my job and simple simplify things to, you know, the best of my ability every single day and, you know, just take it one day at a time, one play at a time.

Greg Cosell (36:03)

And you know, I have a tremendous.

Colin Cowherd (36:04)

Coaching staff, a tremendous group of guys.

Greg Cosell (36:06)

Around me that I can lean on.

Colin Cowherd (36:08)

And they can lean on me.

Jason McIntyre (36:13)

Looks like he's. Looks like he's headed to Stagecoach, maybe with that hat backwards. Do you have any deep thoughts on the hat backwards? Looks like he needs a haircut. Doesn't look like a buttoned up franchise quarterback to me. But I'm all in on the Vikings.

Colin Cowherd (36:24)

Just for the record, I'm all in on the Lions winning it and the Bears going to a wild card spot. I think Green Bay and Minnesota will be well coached, but I think the division. It's like there's two divisions in football. The AFC West, Broncos, Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers, potentially three playoff teams. The fourth place team will be good. The second division, that's the best division in football. The second best division is the NFC North. Minnesota could win eight games with JJ and be a really good team. But. But I mean, I'm sorry, they're not pulling off last year's win total. That's not happening. They have a much tougher schedule. They're not doing it. That is the easiest team in the league to pull back a win total.

Jason McIntyre (37:09)

Okay, well, we gotta find the win total first. I will say in the mock draft that I did for 2026, I just did it in win total order. And the Minnesota vikings are drafting 15th. So the league thinks they're like a 500 slightly above.

Colin Cowherd (37:22)

That's right. That's right. Vegas does.

Jason McIntyre (37:23)

I should say Vegas.

Colin Cowherd (37:24)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. Greg Cosell had good stuff earlier today. Chris Broussard is coming up in the last hour. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years. And still work together. I mean that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe, Known Rich wherever you get your podcast and of course on social media. That's Covino and Rich Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit card you can dip your toes into bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit Card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a 200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web Bank. In order to Qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit Card terms, see Rates and Fees.

D (39:47)

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Colin Cowherd (40:37)

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Jason McIntyre (42:29)

Live From Birmingham Sunday, 1:30 Eastern on Fox.

Colin Cowherd (42:32)

So this is interesting. People just don't know what the heck to do with the Bill belichick Jordan Hudson story. 70s. She's mid-20s. Well, this is interesting. From the Atlantic of the athletic. Excuse me, Jordan Hudson, Belichick's girlfriend. In December of 2024, an email to North Carolina officials. Hudson, 24, identified herself as as the COO of Belichick production, the chief operating officer. Now that's a real title. So she is the COO of Belichick Productions. Now the athletic says, yeah, we're trying to find where she's licensed. It's just an LLC is all you have to get, or an S Corp or llc. But that's a real title. And that's what I said yesterday. You don't have to like it, but I mean, she's. This is what she is. Belichick did not need this in pro football. In college. He and Mike Lombardi are not college guys. In fact, I've said, I've always thought this felt like a one year thing. And then Bill would kind of like if he could jettison college football and go back to the pros. I don't think that's going to happen. I think his market has dried up. I think the NFL is becoming very collaborative league is that you got to have the GM and the coach get along. Like, Bill basically called off his scouting department mid January. Last six years in New England. That's why the Patriots were so awful at drafting. That's why Mike Vrabel inherited such an awful roster. That's Bill's roster. I mean, a lot of these great managers, it could be Tony LaRussa in baseball, the late Bobby Knight in basketball. They don't change with the culture and they get old really fast. Bob Knight, I don't want to do one and dones. Well, okay, there's no way he would have done nil. Like, okay, so Belichick, he got old very, very fast. People age differently. And Bill is one of those guys. We're at the college level. He realizes I don't want to deal with billionaire owners. If I'm going to do this college thing, it just can't be me and Mike Lombardi. We have to have a bridge. And so let's have a young bridge. Happens to be his girlfriend. But I mean, that just. I'm just throwing it out there. That's. That's what they're saying. That's what she's saying. The Athletics like, well, we can't find the llc. Well, she is saying and told North Carolina I'm the CEO of his production company. All right, so Zach Lowe, very respected NBA guy analyst. And this is something we've talked about on the show. I don't think it's outrageous. Almost everybody's been traded from Wayne Gretzky to Babe Ruth to Joe Montana to Kareem to Wilt. Everybody's. There's just a lot of great players who have been traded.

Greg Cosell (45:14)

Traded.

Colin Cowherd (45:15)

And Kobe Bryant once threatened, I want to be traded. And then they landed Pal Gasol. And he stayed with the Lakers and won titles. But it's not trading Luke. It's that they got nothing back. But for Zach Lowe to come out and say what he said. Here is a real mark on this. Why do you have to get humiliated at the beginning of every single playoff series before you show the world, like, yeah, I can actually put in a little bit more of an effort on defense. I'm just tired of, like. Like, I'm going to be embarrassed until our backs are against the wall, and then I'm going to show you that, yeah, I can put up a little bit of a fight. How about you put up a fight in, like, game one of the second round and now you're down 3:1, and you're probably going home. For the record, this has always been the book on Luca. He is a better Carmelo Anthony. He's not that interested in defense. He's a lopsided offensive player who can play with others, but doesn't necessarily always elevate others. And I've always had this theory about the NBA. If your best player does not play defense. James Harden, Luca, Kyrie, pre LeBron, if your best player won't make the effort, it's poison in a locker room. Steph Curry has Draymond Green, and when Clay was in his prime, he was a great defender. And Steph gave you the effort. He's just not physically a great defender. He gives you the effort. Mellow didn't. Luca, didn't D. Wade, to me, has always been a limited offensive player. He made his money on playing big for his size and playing defense and effort. But when the Duncan played defense, Kobe did okay. MJ did again. Bird wasn't great, but he gave you the effort. And I. And I. And there's been a lot of great players. KD gives you the effort. KD is trying. He's just not great at it. But when you are like James Harden, I'm just. I don't. I don't really care. That's. That's problematic. When you think of stars that don't play defense, there's about five guys that jump out. Luke is one of them. You don't have to like it. It's the truth. And so. And that was what Dallas was saying. We're not. We're not doubting he's a great offensive player. But do you think it's a coincidence they went and got a great defensive player in AD because they were frustrated? Kyrie's not a great defense. So Dallas had two guys that don't defend Kyrie and Luka. And also, and this matters as well, Luka's never been in great shape. Last year, when he got to the finals, he was exhausted. How many times did Harden in a playoff run. Look, say what you want. This is a big boy show. It's the truth. Harden looked exhausted in playoff series. You know who never looks exhausted, even when he's old and plays the entire second half? LeBron gives you. LeBron didn't have his offensive game against Minnesota. How about on the defensive end? The block of Dante defintanto? Give me Luca's great dunks. Lucas, great defensive moments. Even as LeBron's been in the league 22 years, in that fourth quarter when he had nothing left, he made two huge defensive plays. Tell me Luca's best defensive play ever. You don't even think of what Tatum plays defense and plays defense. Yeah, Harden ever did. Luca never has. Mello never did. Duncan did. Right matters.

Jason McIntyre (48:51)

22Nd timeout here, buddy. We need a timeout. You're going in too hard. First of all, Carmelo Anthony is not in the same class as Luka Doncic. Luca makes everyone around him better. By the way, I just looked this up. Luca's been to the conference finals two of the last three years. You know, he's a great player. He's a leader. Put Dallas on his back. Maybe that's why he got hurt this season, because he carried that franchise to the. To the NBA finals last year. So I looked up, and no disrespect to Zach Lowe, I looked up just one stat. Defensive rating in the playoffs among starters. First of all, like the entire Miami Heat starting lineup is at the top. Worst defense. Because the Cavs cooked him.

Colin Cowherd (49:25)

Right.

Jason McIntyre (49:25)

Well, according to defensive rating, Luca has been better according to just one stat than LeBron. Rui Hachimura, Darius Garland, Giannis. Okay. And by the way, Jackson Hayes has been awful. That's probably why. So he's better. The numbers better. Totally say Lucas a turnstile.

Colin Cowherd (49:45)

Okay, does anybody think. Think Darius Garland, great defender.

Jason McIntyre (49:51)

He's terrible.

Colin Cowherd (49:51)

Yeah, okay, so that. I don't even care about that comment.

Jason McIntyre (49:54)

I'm just saying.

Colin Cowherd (49:54)

Rui Rui.

Jason McIntyre (49:56)

Okay, you can't leave him on an island with Anthony every time. Few people can. But again, yeah, he's never been a great defender. He missed 25 games and he got traded. He's still adjusting. Can we give him a grace period? Like last year, he dispatched Aunt Edwards, a company in the conference finals. Remember the F bombs to Rudy Gobert? And his face actually Hit that three.

Colin Cowherd (50:15)

No, I like, I like him. But what Zach Lowe is saying, we have another Zach Lowe bite where he talked about this. The idea of moving off a guy that you have. Remember with the new CBA, you were going to have to pay him 70 million a year. Okay. I don't want to have to think about, well, he's not in great shape. He's getting hurt more. Lucas had two dunks the last two years. He had 25 as a rookie. Rookie, like you're seeing athletically a decline here. Zach Lowe, you can find corners of smart NBA people, team people who would, who would tell you, the idea of getting out ahead of this and trading Luca is not a crazy idea. The idea of doing it without shopping him to get nine first round draft picks and swaps and doing this specific trade is where the logic falls apart. Yeah, and I think the really smart executives get ahead of stuff. They're, they're, they're not reactionary. And I, and I, I just think they didn't get enough back. But, you know, it's when teams pick on you, that's an indication. Think about that. When a team goes pick on Luca, and I've seen that in this series a couple times, they're going after him. Now, I will say this. Jokic is not a great defender, but Jokic is also basically the entire offense. On most nights, he doesn't have LeBron next to him. Also, he's carrying around 265 lbs. And Jokic isn't a great defender, but he'll tighten it up. With six minutes to go, he's a capable defender.

Jason McIntyre (51:52)

That's a good point, Luke.

Colin Cowherd (51:53)

A lot of times is out of gas with six to go. So.

Jason McIntyre (51:55)

Listen, maybe this is the California in me speaking, but sometimes things just happen for a reason. And maybe Luka needs this wake up call. Hey, y'all got dusted. Hey, LeBron's gonna be able to get in your face now and be like, hey, you gotta get in better shape. Maybe Luka needs this. I didn't hear that dunking stat before this morning. That's kind of a stunning stat. I didn't know it was that bad, but sometimes you need something. I recently had an incident with my car and I was super heated, and then it took me like 24 hours. I was like, okay, maybe this needed to happen. It's a sign. I'm gonna adjust some things. And maybe Luca just needs this wake up call. Colin, I don't know.

Colin Cowherd (52:32)

Yeah, I just don't think he's going to be an elite defender next year regardless of what happens. But I am not denying the Lakers won the trade overwhelmingly and he is a great offensive player. I just think he's a lopsided player Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit card you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini credit card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a 200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit card is issued by Web bank. In order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience, seamlessly integrates powerful performance, its bold, daring design, a refined interior, details, cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric suv. Compromise not one of them.

D (54:28)

Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. The fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back and Degree listened and that doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason why it's the number one man's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart Target and try the OG Cool Rush for yourself.

Colin Cowherd (54:57)

Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry, A box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.