Hour 2 - Where Colin was right and wrong

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd: Hour 2 - Where Colin Was Right and Wrong

Release Date: June 16, 2025
Host: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Description: A deep dive into the top sports stories of the day, evaluating Colin Cowherd's insights and predictions.

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Introduction

In the second hour of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," hosts Matt Hasselbeck, Rachel Nichols, and Colin Cowherd engage in a spirited discussion analyzing where Colin was both accurate and misguided in his recent sports commentary. The conversation spans multiple sports, including the NFL, NBA, and MLB, touching on key players, team performances, and broader league dynamics.

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Evaluating NFL Quarterbacks: The Shador Sanders Debate

One of the primary topics revolves around Shador Sanders, an emerging quarterback in the NFL. Matt Hasselbeck defends Sanders' impressive performance during training camps, emphasizing his high completion rates.

• Matt Hasselbeck [08:07]: "Shador Sanders is by far and away the most accurate quarterback, which is what he was in college."

Despite criticism that Sanders is merely throwing against backup defenses, Hasselbeck highlights that Sanders completes nearly 80% of his passes during camp, significantly higher than the league average.

• Matt Hasselbeck [08:43]: "If you're completing almost 80%, even in OTAs, that seems high to me."

Colin Cowherd concurs, praising Sanders' performance and suggesting he could secure a starting position despite stiff competition in a quarterback room teeming with talent.

• Colin Cowherd [50:16]: "Shador has been very impressive. It's a really complicated and intriguing quarterback room."

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NBA Playoffs and Caitlin Clark's Impact

The discussion shifts to the NBA playoffs, where Caitlin Clark's return has significantly boosted viewership and fan engagement. Colin acknowledges Clark's influence on the league's popularity.

• Matt Hasselbeck [07:04]: "Caitlin Clark returned and the NBA was mesmerizing."

Colin highlights that Clark's presence alone accounted for a 55% drop in viewership when she was absent, underscoring her role in making the NBA an "incredibly easy product to consume."

• Colin Cowherd [08:03]: "She came back. You could not turn the TV off."

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Kevin Durant Trade Speculations

Kevin Durant's potential move remains a hot topic. The hosts analyze market interests and possible destinations, expressing skepticism about Durant landing with teams like the Rockets or Clippers due to existing team dynamics and player rosters.

• Matt Hasselbeck [31:38]: "I don't see it going well for KD. The market isn't what Phoenix thought it would be."

They discuss the improbability of Durant pairing with specific teams without significant roster overhauls, leading to speculation that he might end up with a non-contender like Toronto.

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Aaron Rodgers' Future and Legacy

Aaron Rodgers' impending retirement is another focal point. Matt Hasselbeck and Colin Cowherd debate whether Rodgers will secure his legacy or see it tarnished by his final seasons.

• Matt Hasselbeck [27:04]: "I think he'll have two or three years left."

Colin argues that Rodgers' tenure in Green Bay, marked by great offensive support, may not translate well in a new defensive-centric environment, potentially impacting his legacy negatively.

• Colin Cowherd [28:45]: "He didn't feel quite as committed as the obsessed Brady."

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Shohei Ohtani's Dual Threat in MLB

Shohei Ohtani's unique role as both a pitcher and hitter in MLB garners significant attention. Matt and Colin discuss Ohtani's limited pitching appearances post-UCL surgery and his unparalleled performance as a two-way player.

• Matt Hasselbeck [33:44]: "He's the best baseball player in the history of the sport."

Colin marvels at Ohtani's ability to pitch and hit at elite levels simultaneously, likening his impact to legends like Babe Ruth.

• Colin Cowherd [34:31]: "He's an ace at an all-star game on the mound. This is just insane."

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Additional Player and Team Analysis

The conversation also touches on other notable players and team strategies:

• John Morant's Franchise Potential: Matt expresses doubts about Morant being a franchise cornerstone due to perceived limitations in his skill set and consistency.

  • Matt Hasselbeck [09:15]: "John Morant was wildly entertaining, but I never thought he was a build around him, franchise guy."

• Cleveland Browns' Quarterback Situation: The hosts debate the Browns' quarterback depth, praising Shador Sanders while questioning the effectiveness of current starters like Kenny Pickett.

  • Matt Hasselbeck [52:21]: "Shador Sanders is the most interesting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns."

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Conclusion: Assessing Colin's Insights

Throughout the episode, hosts critically evaluate Colin Cowherd's predictions, acknowledging his accurate assessments while pointing out areas where his viewpoints may fall short. The balanced discourse provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of current sports dynamics, emphasizing the complexities and multifaceted nature of athletic performance and team management.

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Notable Quotes

• Matt Hasselbeck [08:07]: "Shador Sanders is by far and away the most accurate quarterback, which is what he was in college."

• Colin Cowherd [07:04]: "Caitlin Clark returned and the NBA was mesmerizing."

• Matt Hasselbeck [27:04]: "I think he'll have two or three years left."

• Colin Cowherd [34:31]: "He's an ace at an all-star game on the mound. This is just insane."

• Matt Hasselbeck [52:21]: "Shador Sanders is the most interesting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns."

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This episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" offers a nuanced examination of various sports narratives, blending expert opinions with critical analysis to discern where Colin's perspectives align with or diverge from broader sporting realities.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Matt Hasselbeck]

The NBA Finals are almost here and.

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[Matt Hasselbeck]

Now let's get this party started.

[Rachel Nichols]

You're listening to FOX Sports Radio.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Here we go, hour two on a Monday. Calling, right? Wrong. In a couple of minutes. You know, I love whenever NBA fans or NFL fans go letter of the law on that SGA Scott Foster play. And my takeaway is always. Oh, your letter of the law guy.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Did you, did you drive exact speed limit on the way to work? Otherwise it's a ticket. Did you come to a full and complete stop at every stoplight this weekend? Oh, then it's a ticket. People are outraged in America when law enforcement sets up those red light cameras where they mail you tickets. People are outraged by that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Why?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

It's letter of the law. Your letter of the law guy. That's not the way life is for all you guys out there, lonely guys. And there's a lot of you. You may, you may buy her dinner, open her car door. You, you may be gracious and well mannered. She could have decided four minutes into the date.

[Jason McIntyre]

You ain't it.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

It's all how it lands. It's all flexible. Everybody's a little morally flexible. So I don't rush to the Internet to get clicks and pretend we live in a letter of the law society. It could be politics, it could be sports. You don't drive the speed limit. You don't make a complete stop. So stop going to the rule books. We saw it at the US Open where you're hitting the ball basically out of a water tunnel. There's water everywhere. It's like, it's interpretation. Life is gray. It's not black and white. Black and white gets clicks. Life is gray. Parenting is gray. It's gray. I mean, I, I remember when my kids, before they were born, you can't drink wine or have raw seafood while you're pregnant. Explain Japan. I don't know. It seems to me that's the diet, right? Like, I'm like, are you serious? Are you we absolutely sure about that? It's not, it's not basically encouraged, but there are cultures where like raw fish is the absolute delicacy or like the primary thing people consume. So this whole thing about this is the way to parent and this is the way to officiate and this is the way to do business. I don't buy any of it. I don't want perfect abs at 68 years old. I'm going to have ice cream, okay? And by the way, I'm borderline lactose intolerant, so I'll get sick. I'm still occasionally going to have Greek yogurt and ice cream because I feel like it. So don't give me letter of the law. Stop with that nonsense. Russell and M.J. letter of the law. That doesn't count. Magic Johnson's career was a series of traveling. None of them called. It's, you know, this is entertainment. You're gonna let him go in the NFL. I've been saying this on pass interference there is so much pushing, grabbing and shoving up the sideline. You could call pass interference every call. The reason the officials don't flow of the game. That's why the NBA lets the players play in the playoffs. They have a larger audience flow of the game. Keep the game moving. You could call, you could call a foul every possession in the NBA. You could call holding in football every play. Flow of the game. Their television products. NBA Finals. Let MJ let Durant, let LeBron, let SGA. Just let them play. They're pro athletes. They've trained for this moment. This is not the Olympics. It's not every four years. We, we don't have a gun on it or a clock on it. That's not what this is. We got a game in two days. So I'm not bothered by it. Here we go. Colin right. Colin wrong.

[Rachel Nichols]

On a Monday where Colin was right.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Caitlin Clark returned and the NBA was mesmerizing. It is not anti Beyonce to say Taylor Swift's tour changed the economy. It is not anti WNBA to say when Caitlin Clark plays. This is an incredibly easy product to consume. They lost 55% when she didn't play. She came back. You could not turn the TV off. It's not anti anything. It's pro. Caitlin Clark.

[Rachel Nichols]

Where Colin was wrong.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I thought, I thought the Thunder were in trouble and they were for much of the game against Indiana. But in that fourth quarter, they answered the bell with one of the great 3 minute defensive stands I have ever seen. Indiana held the one point in the final three minutes. It was one of the most impressive defensive performances for a brief stand that I've ever seen. OKC won that game. Regardless of what you think about this.

[Rachel Nichols]

Non call, where Colin was right.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Shador Sanders, according to Jeremy Fowler, ESPN made an impression. I don't know how great he's going to be. I do think he's a franchise quarterback. We can argue about that. But his go to is his accuracy. And in camp he was insanely accurate. People can say, well, he was playing against backups. Well, so are half the quarterbacks in the NFL during camp they didn't complete 77%. Every backup quarterback in the NFL is playing against backups in camp. Why did Everybody else complete 60%? He completed 77%.

[Rachel Nichols]

Where Colin was right.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I did not like the New York Knicks firing Tibbs. Now they're down to Mike Brown and Taylor Jenkins who are fine, but I always believe it was a personnel issue. That's why we kept talking about all year, do the Knicks need Giannis or kd? Brunson and Cat are below average defenders. Mikhail Bridges is inconsistent offensively. Bottom line is the New York Knicks by firing Tibbs. I think it's inarguable. Will now end up with the worst head coach.

[Rachel Nichols]

Where Colin was wrong, okay, J. Mac was right.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Team USA throttled Trinidad Tobago 5 nothing. It wasn't very pretty, but they did it. You know, I guess the sky is not falling. I didn't think it was a very pretty performance, but it's not a bad outcome considering there's a little bit of noise out around the United States men's national team. So I'll take it wrong on that.

[Rachel Nichols]

Where Colin was right I always thought.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

John Morant was wildly entertaining, but I never thought he was a build around him, franchise guy, spindly, doesn't shoot well early in his career, some maturity issues and I just, I think over the last three years he's hurt more and shooting more poorly. So I can like him and think he's a two or a three, but boy, when you're talking about a number one in the NBA, I got to have you play 75 games. I got to have you there very night. And a lot of these smaller guards who don't shoot well therefore have to score at the rim, get banged up.

[Rachel Nichols]

Where Colin was right.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I've said this for the last couple of years. Joe Burrow is doing what I wish Andrew Luck would have done in his career in Indy. He's calling the organization out. They are playing around with excellent pass rusher Trey Hendrickson. And Joe Burrow has no problem repeatedly saying yes, it's a problem.

[Colin Cowherd]

Is Trey not being here, his deal not done.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Is that a distraction? Of course. Of course.

[Unknown]

Last year we had two. This year we have One. So we do have less.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

You'd love to have none, but, you know, that's life in the NFL.

[Unknown]

We're all supporting Trey and would love for him to be back.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

All right. And with that, we go live to Matt Hasselbeck, who spent 19, 18 years in the NFL. I thought it was 19. Did. Am gypping you a year. Just.

[Colin Cowherd]

Just 18. Only 18. I'll take 19, but only 18. Thank you, though.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

So what Burrow is doing, I like. I. My only criticism of Andrew Luck, who I loved was Andrew. You're being overly optimistic. This is not a good roster. Quit always taking the blame. Part of leadership is uncomfortable conversations, sometimes with management, sometimes with teammates or coaches. I have no problem with what Burrow's doing. Do you?

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, he talked about distraction. The distraction for me was looking at his new hairdo. He looks like Anakin Skywalker, which is actually a compliment. I wish I could look that good. But his hair looked amazing. No, you know, I think there's a couple of layers to this, Colin. I mean, the Colts were are, you know, widely thought of as a first class organization. No expenses spared. I mean, going back to the days of, you know, obviously Jim or say, but like Peyton Manning and you know, like any expense to help this team win. That's just the reputation of the Colts. That's where Andrew Luck went. He followed that. That's not the reputation of the Cincinnati Bengals. Listen, I love Cincinnati. I love the Bengals. My family's from Ohio. Cincinnati, Ohio. But the Bengals just have this reputation of being a team that doesn't spend money. I mean, even when I was coming out in the draft, a lot of scouts were coming to, you know, work us out. But the, the Bengals would send coaches because they didn't have scouts. They didn't have enough scouts in their scouting department. You know, they would leave you with media guides. Every other team, theirs was in color. The Bengals were the last team in the NFL. Theirs was in black and white. So it's just like this. They do have a little bit of a reputation that they're going to fight. They're going to fight in free agency, and then they're going to fight in this situation because they're not paying their best players. Now, I know they've done it on the offensive side of the ball. They've done a great job of, of paying their quarterback and now two wide receivers. But, you know, that, that is something that they're going to have to, you know, deal with.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, the. So I just said this about Shador. I don't know if he's going to be a great franchise quarterback, but when I hear this, well, he is playing against backups and my take is so are 50 other guys in camp and they're not completing close to 80%. There is something about him setting a college accuracy record and then going to camp and doing it again. Man, I've said this before. One of the first things I look for is your is your best college trait. Does it translate? So when Tebow was a great athlete in college, then went to the NFL and couldn't outrun defensive ends, I'm like, that's trouble because he's not great in the pocket. Johnny Manziel, oh, he's running around in college he couldn't outrun a linebacker in the NFL. That's a problem. But if your go to is accuracy and you complete nearly 80% in camp, I know it's not the end of the world but isn't it fair to say nobody else in this league is completing that percentage?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I think you're onto something there. Listen, the future is a whole bunch of right nows and that's all you can do is right now. For Shador right now in college, he did a great job so far in camp. I've been very impressed. I've been very impressed and I'm not somebody that gets, you know, all worked up over what someone looks like in, you know, helmet and T shirt. But Shadar has been very impressive. It's a really complicated and intriguing quarterback room. Obviously you've got too many guys there right now, never mind the desean Watson situation, but four guys in that room, when you're only going to keep two, maybe three, someone's got to go. And all four guys could actually, you know, I think in you could make the argument that all four guys could give them the best chance as a starter. It's a really intriguing thing. I don't think Chador necessarily will start early, but I wouldn't count him out to a make the team and then be start at some point during the season.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

So Matt, I've been on this forever. In your career, you probably played eight, nine high school games. You didn't have seven on seven camps. You weren't throwing year round. You're probably playing basketball, doing baseball. That's what we did. So over the last, I would say 12 years. It's a cottage industry, the quarterback position and therefore as a sportscaster, I am tougher on quarterbacks now. I used to believe you got to give guys three years. I don't believe that by Thanksgiving of year two, I'm going to make a decision. You've got 10,000 snaps. You probably had 800 going to the NFL. You know, these guys now have 10,000. With all the summer camp, seven on seven, and personal coaching, I've watched enough. Anthony Richardson, I don't think it works. And Daniel Jones, there's something there. I want you to talk about this. If you're Shane Steichen, what did you see in New York? Because I don't know what. I didn't love Daniel Jones, but I do think you have to make calls pretty quickly on this stuff. And I don't think Anthony Richardson, I know he didn't play much in college, Matt, but I don't think it works. I don't think it's close.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, listen, I mean, I saw a report recently, they were talking about, like, the 13 new head coach and new starting quarterback situations. And. And I would have argued back then. There's 14. Indianapolis being that. That one that people aren't about. And now Anthony Richardson isn't able to throw. He's got a complication from an AC joint. To me, Daniel Jones is going to be the starting quarterback in Indianapolis. No question about it. I think that this is a chance for him to reinvent his career. He can have a Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, you know, like one of those reinvents. He's a pretty good runner. And listen, Shane Steichen, he's going to use, you know, think about what he did with Jalen Hurts in Philly. Daniel Jones is an underrated runner. He rushed for like 700 yards the year the Giants went to the playoffs, that playoff season that they had. I think this is a great opportunity for Daniel Jones. You know, you remember, like, he reminded a lot of people of the Manning family, obviously Peyton Manning with the Indianapolis Colts. You know, that kind of vibe is what they're used to. That kind of, you know, like. I don't know what the right word for it is, but just like a consistency. I think the upside is there with Anthony Richardson. There's no doubt about that. But there's. There's some things that I think give some people some pause. I don't know if he'll be able to come back with that organization from. From tapping out when he was out of breath after a scramble. That was a. That was a big misfire to a lot of people there. So it's an open competition and one guy's healthy right now and the other guy's not.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I want to touch on something before we go today. So there's something called a sophomore slump. So it wasn't that. Jaden Daniels was good last year. He was historically like a unicorn. Like he may. He was better than Patrick Mahomes on most analytics. And again, Andrew Luck was great as a rookie, but he threw picks. Peyton Manning, Eli, they were very good early, but they got confused. They threw picks. Jaden Daniels was Joe Burrow. Two minutes left, fourth quarter, third, fourth downs. And they call it a sophomore slump. So it's very hard in a regular season for defensive coordinators to look at all your film. They have to take previous games. Do you believe now that everybody, every DC has an off season? They can watch all of Jaden Daniels? Do you think we'll get the kind of perpetual pullback, or are we looking at somebody that literally is like Burrow, strangely calm, strangely accurate, historically? So in the fourth, third down, fourth down.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. To me, he was historically awesome. And, you know, you mentioned Peyton and Eli. I actually don't think those two guys started out all that well. They finished super, super strong. But Jaden Daniels, to me, was absolutely undeniably incredible last year. What he and Cliff Kingsbury did was just. I mean, it was. It was almost hilarious. It was almost like, all right, like, when's. When's Cinderella going to turn into a pumpkin here? Like, it never really happened. The only thing I would caution him, I would just, like, he's such a good runner. Don't take the hits. I think he, like, maybe broke some ribs or, like, strained some rib cartilage at some point during the season, and that affected him just a little bit. So, like, maybe, maybe just avoid the hits just a little bit because you're that valuable. But I think for me, the only thing that could really get him into that sophomore slump is if Washington screws up the Terry McLaurin contract situation. If they don't screw that up, if they get him back, I think that team is rolling. But look for that contract to be a thing.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

All right, Matt Hassel, back on a Monday, buddy. We appreciate it. Thanks.

[Colin Cowherd]

See you, Colin.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

All right. Yeah, I go back to the Sanders. There's. There's Basically, we got 32 NFL teams, and most teams know who their starting quarterback is. And then most teams carry a couple other quarterbacks in the OTAs and minicamp. Well, that means there's. If there's 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL, Indy is very rare where they don't have their guy yet. But it'll be Daniel Jones. But. But in Cleveland's, rare where they have like four guys. We think it's Flacco, maybe it's Pickett, whatever. But there's all. There's far more backups in the NFL than starters. Every team right now has at least two backups and one starter, perceived starter. So if you got 64 backups and they're probably 68 or 70, some number. And Shador Sanders is by far and away the most accurate, which is what he was in college then, then his college skill set is transitioning and pivoting very nicely to the pros. And that's one of the first things I look at. If you had a big arm in college. Well, let's look at it. I want to watch in college, like Josh Allen, when he was at Wyoming, he wasn't very accurate, but there were a couple of plays on YouTube from his college days at Wyoming. You're like, is that the biggest arm you've ever seen? But he was against Wyoming and lesser competition. Then he came into the NFL and you're like, yeah, yeah. He jumps over NFL linebackers, too. And he's got the strongest arm in the NFL. Matt Stafford at Georgia, they used to, oh my God, this kid's arm is unbelievable. It could be a major league baseball pitcher. He got to the NFL and you're like, yeah, he's got one of the strongest arms in the NFL. It doesn't always work that way. But with Shador, it's like, why aren't all the other backups completing 78%?

[Jason McIntyre]

That's.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

That seems to me like uniquely accomplished. So it's, it's got to be something. As I always say, nothing's everything. Everything's something. If you're completing almost 80%, even in OTAs, that seems high to me.

[Rachel Nichols]

One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Matt Hasselbeck]

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[Unknown]

Foreign.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Nichols will be joining us at the top of the hour. Mark DeRosa from the major League Baseball Network. People in Boston are freaking out, but they let, I mean they let Monkey Bets go. Raphael Devers now and in the end, now he was Bets was a shocker because he was for me the classic five tool player, run, power, average, glove like you could move him. He came to the infield. That one's shocking, this one. The manager endeavors had issues in the spring. He didn't want to change positions. I don't really blame him. But people are outraged in Boston. But my take is always sports fans have power. They have to use it collectively. And if you keep going to Fenway and you're just giving up players, it's like, well, okay, don't forget these owners, these billionaires have multiple teams. A lot of this stuff is a line item and you know, so use your voice, not only your voice on social media, don't go to Fenway Park. J. Mack with the news.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, no, no.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Turn on the news.

[Rachel Nichols]

This is the Herd line news.

[Unknown]

All right, Colin, let's start with your. What fourth favorite quarterback in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers on our fifth. Maybe he's up there for sure. He made a quick appearance at Steelers minicamp before the team took a break. I'm sure Aaron will be celebrating his recent nuptials on this break. But Ben Roethlisberger has chimed in now on Aaron Rodgers signing and he believes it'll be a one and done for the four time mvp.

I don't think he's got much more after this year. I think this might be it for him. Could personally, I, I have no reason you could ask. Well, how do I know? I don't know he's coming. One year last year off his Achilles he's probably like I felt pretty good this year he's going to be better. Like in the sense of body. Feeling better doesn't mean he'll play better you never know that, that there's a lot of other factors on that, but he's going to feel better, but it doesn't mean that he's going to have two or three years left.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, I agree with that. I think it's, I think what happens is, you know how sometimes you don't appreciate something until it's gone. And when he was in Green Bay, he always had offensive coaches, he always had offensive lines. And he didn't have to love Mike McCarthy. But Mike McCarthy in his history generates nice passing offenses. Go look at the number. Dak had his best years with Mike McCarthy. And so he leaves there and he goes to Sala and Tomlin. Two defensive coaches and defensive cultures. And so, you know what I mean. Like, I think Brady was in New England with a defensive guy, but he appreciated it. I mean he'll. I don't know Tom well enough, but he would tell me privately, you know, Belichick's the best defensive coach in the history of the league. I had the offense with Josh McDaniels, but I, I think Aaron, when he was in Green Bay, did he truly appreciate the fact that he never had a battle line ever in Green Bay? There is outside of Dante Skarnickia in New England with Brady, if I said to you, 15 year run, no bad offensive lines. It was Green Bay and New England. I think Brady appreciated his more than Aaron, maybe appreciated his because since he's left jets battle line and the Steelers haven't gotten O line right in like eight years.

[Unknown]

It's, it's interesting. So we're watching the end of superstars in the NBA, LeBron and Curry. Nobody wants him to leave. They're still playing at an immensely high level. Everybody's all about them. We talk about them all the time. And then there's Aaron Rodgers and I mean, I don't know about you, but anybody I talk to, football fan, they can't wait for him to be done. Just retire, it's over. You're not very good anymore. You're just more of like an irritant than anything at this stage. He's nothing like Curry and LeBron. Culturally, like I believe Aaron Rodgers, maybe this is harsh, is almost damaging his legacy, if you will. The end. This has been like Colin, he hasn't been good in like three or four years at this point, right?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Well, generally Michael Jordan and the Wizards disappears into the ether. Like we don't really talk about that because we all know Jeter, Yankees, Kobe, Lakers, 99% LA Broncos. It doesn't end like that, you know, you bounce around. I don't, I don't think it'll hurt his legacy. I think. I think what hurts his legacy more is if you go back and look at his Green Bay tenure, his prime wasn't very long relative to Peyton Manning or Drew Brees or Tom Brady's prime. His prime is closer to 12 years than 15, 18, 19. And I think you'll be able to look at that and reasonably say some of that was on Aaron is that he didn't have. Now he didn't play for three years but in the end he didn't feel quite as committed. Fair or not, he didn't feel quite as committed as the obsessed Breeze. Obsessed Brady. He didn't.

[Unknown]

Yeah, Breeze never fell off like this. Even Brett Favre had the down year with the Jets. I mean they were good for half.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

The season but was amazing with Minnesota. That's.

[Unknown]

But then had an. A great. Exactly. Great second to last year in Minnesota. I think the last year was a bit of a train wreck.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Aaron H. Fast.

[Unknown]

Yeah, listen, even Peyton Manning.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Do you remember when they won the.

[Unknown]

Super bowl against the Panthers? I believe Peyton got benched that season. I'm almost certain it was Brock Osweiler. He was. He had a bad season and then threw for like a buck 50 in the super bowl but won the super bowl, remember in Denver.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

I mean like Aaron's not. Not doing any winning at all. So I don't know, I'm out on it. Let's get to a story everybody cares about that is Kevin Durant. Colin, listen, two weeks ago you were out, I hosted. I said. I'm just telling you there's not going to be a big market. Nobody is giving up prime assets for a guy who's about to be 37. And oh by the way, you're going to have to pay him a two year $100 million contract. Nobody's doing that. But his agent has been pushing all these narratives. Miami, San Antonio, Houston. Well guess what the reporters are saying today, Colin. The market isn't what Phoenix thought it would be and things are not looking. They're not getting the offers they wanted and it's not going to be a surprise if Kevin Durant ends up in like Toronto to a non contender.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Well, Kevin Durant wants the Heat, spurs and Rockets. No state tax, warm weather. I don't think he's. I mean anybody. Those guys would want him. The Rockets is easily the best fit older guy, younger roster they've already got. If they can keep sengun by the way.

[Unknown]

They're not giving up Sengun for Kevin Durant. No shots. No way. I'm giving up 10 more years of Sengoon for two of KD. That's off the table.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I give you Jalen Green.

[Unknown]

I don't know that they want that. They already got Devin Booker. What are we doing? Can we play Green and Booker together? So then if it comes, they give us all your young guys and picks and it's like we're not doing that. I'm just telling you, I don't see it going well for kd. I mean, I'm hearing this Clippers stuff, you know, they would love to get off.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I saw that. I saw that.

[Unknown]

So you want to pair Kawhi Harden and Kevin Durant?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I almost. It's weird. I always had such respect for the Clippers front office, but it's almost like they're going for brands instead of basketball like Harden. Kawhi News, New Arena. They're good for brands. They're always fighting the Lakers for relevancy, but I don't it's. Do they need another old body for the Clippers that you're not sure if they're going to have gas at the end of the year? I, I don't love that, but I read it too.

[Unknown]

Hey, what about a like a Portland, your old stomping grounds.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

He, he, he doesn't want to go.

[Unknown]

Like, he doesn't want to go. He has no say in the matter. Portland said, fine, we'll just rent him to get off a bad contract. I, I don't know, man. I'm just telling you. I don't think any of the contenders want a final story, is a big one and basically basketball. Colin Shohei Otani is pitching tonight against the Padres. He's 21 months removed from a second repair of his UCL. He's expected to only throw one or two innings tonight before you go bet on the game. People just know he ain't pitching long. Okay? So don't go betting on his strikeout total. He's pitching one or two innings. Here's Dave Roberts on sh Otani. It's a good thing, I think that we've kind of the live situation simulated or whatever, it's sort of run its course. So he's ready to, you know, make his debut on the mound.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Shohei's getting antsy, so which is a.

[Unknown]

Good thing for us.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I hope everybody appreciates and I understand a big part of sports is tradition and I know I'm not seen as a traditionalist. I would give up the USC Notre Dame tomorrow if it meant USC could make the playoff. So I'm not your classic traditionalist. I don't collect stuff. I, I just hope everybody realizes that's the best baseball player in the history of the sport. You are watching something cuz Babe Ruth and no athlete from, you know, that era can compete today. They're just, it's nutrition, they're just not as good. But this guy is pitching simultaneously and hitting at an elite level. He was an ace at an all Star game on the mound. This is just insane.

[Unknown]

Like 50 steals last year or some ridiculous number.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yes.

[Unknown]

I mean, Colin, here's the thing. And Zach, our producer brought up a great point. Like what are you going to. What are you going to do? Put Shohei in Triple A to start to get some starts? You're not doing that. Like it's, it's just not happening. Like, I see people. We're rushing him. What do you want? Aaa? Is that what you do for Ohtani? So, like, there really isn't a path. Just. I mean, I was thinking middle innings, but then you've got to pull him out of the lineup to go to the bullpen and warm up. Nothing really makes sense. So this seems like a good option. And they're stealing some shine away from that team in the Bay Area who just made a big splash last night.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

We were talking about Caitlin Clark earlier. If I said to you, take every athlete and consider everything that if I told you, wow, they were. They just did a wow play. I mean, I think Caitlin Clark and Ohtani. Who's the third? Like, if somebody said you're not gonna believe what Blank did. Okay, if somebody said you're not gonna believe what Caitlin Clark did, that would be number one to me today. You're not gonna believe what Ohtani did. That would be 1A. Who's three? Because I've seen so much LeBron and Steph, I don't think they qualify.

[Unknown]

He's in year three.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

You know what I would say? Cooper flag Rory McElroy.

[Unknown]

Come again?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Rory McElroy, the golfer.

[Unknown]

A decade. Come on.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I know, but. But I'm saying if you fill in the blank, you're not gonna believe what blank did. I think Caitlin and Ohtani are one and maybe there isn't a three. Like obviously Steph Curry is. You're not gonna believe what Curry did. I've seen every shot Curry can make, but I always feel like with Otani, he may do a Reggie Jackson. And what about Reggie Jackson, huh?

[Unknown]

Aaron Judge, you're not going to see him hit a ball out of the stadium. Like he does crazy stuff. He's amazing.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

He's up there. That's fair.

[Unknown]

But I think for the summer league will probably do something.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I think you're right. That, that is a good call. Cooper Flag in the summer league. You're not, you're not going to believe what Cooper Flag did. Remember Zion in the summer league or Zion early? I was watching their games. I mean, he was putting up wilt numbers for about a month. And like the first thing I would do, you'd go to YouTube. What did Zion do in their game? But it, it doesn't mean you're the best player. But there are these transcendent players. They have these flash moments that are just more fascinating to a tv. Oh, oh. I, oh, Tawny is. It's, I think I've told you this. If I told you this story so years ago, Jose Canseco's in baseball and he's controversial and there's talk about steroids and whatever. And I am flying into San Diego. It's the summer, I think I lived in Vegas. I think I forget. And I was in San Diego's airport and I come down the escalator to the luggage area and there's a small bar, they like to drink in San Diego by the baggage area. And literally there's 30 people huddled around the bar. And I'm, I'm like, what? And I'm coming, I'm walking by and I look at Conseco's batting and he was one of those players that Jose Canseco for a while. And I don't remember there was like, oh, he's, I remember going to a Mariners game and, and literally paying at the time. I shouldn't have four seats, a three and four for my, my buddy Dean Braun because Jose Canseco was in town. I mean, that's kind of the poll he had and I think Ohtani's got that in Caitlin Clark. J. Mac with the news.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Rachel Nichols, Mark DeRosa from the MLB Network. Boston fans very worked up. San Francisco. San Francisco Giant fans are loving life.

[Rachel Nichols]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio Apple.

[Covino]

Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day, 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to.

[Rich]

And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for.

[Covino]

Yeah, you blubber lips, blaming me. Well, you know what? It's called Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years.

[Rich]

Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised.

[Covino]

Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promise. And also uncensored, by the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after show podcast of all time.

[Rich]

There you go, Overpromising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us. Listen Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Unknown]

On deck as Pete Alonso in the Mets take on Kyle Schwarber in the Phillies or the Royals battle the Padres. Check local listings for the game in your area Saturday 7 Eastern on Fox.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

All right, remember this term, cash and country. Cash and country. I am team Christian Pulisic. Even though it can agitate Fox announcers at Team USA that if you look at a Jokic, what matters to Jokic, Cash. Go play in the world's best league and then country play in the Olympics. But when the FIBO World Cup, a basketball version of the soccer Gold cup took place, Jokic was nowhere to be found. Instead, it was Cam Johnson and Josh Hart and good players, but not superstars. No LeBron, no staff, no Jokic. It was young players and emerging players. That's what it should be in soccer. Similarly, and you do the opposite of Jokic. You go, you go America to Europe, cash first, second country, country being World cup, but these sort of second tier or second level tournaments, FIBA basketball World cup or the Gold Cup, I mean, we're missing, I could argue seven of our eight best players. We won five nothing. And Pulisica is just simply saying, guys, you gotta incentivize me here. And Stu Holden came on last week and was very forthright about this. You get paid playing this, but you don't really get paid doing this. And maybe that's what needs to happen now. These guys are paid millions of dollars in Europe to play for some of the biggest clubs. If U.S. soccer, if the Gold cup, if concacav increased the prize pool for the Gold cup and said, hey, you know, for just appearing, you get, you guys get $10 million for participating in the Gold Cup. I would have a pretty strong feeling that just about every single player would be on a plane right now flying and playing. First game in the Gold cup on Sunday in San Jose. And I don't think that's selfish. I don't think it's fair because I will defend LeBron or Steph or Jason Tatum. Cash and country, everybody, when they get more successful in life, you could be an attorney, you could be an executive. You're going to have to say no occasionally because you're going to get a lot of options because it's hard to find great, it's hard to employ great. And so you got to say no. And I mean, if it's not this, it would have been smaller tournaments for us. I mean, you know, how many friendlies we play. Is Pulisic supposed to be there for every friendly he, by the way, he goes, I'd play against Swiss and Turkey, who are, by the way, top 25, you know, teams. Trinidad Tobago is, I think, 100th. We're missing our seven best guys, and it was three nothing like that and five nothing at the end. And I didn't think we played that well. So I'm going to defend the star. I think our best American soccer stars are now able to star in Europe. And it's just like in the NBA, it used to be the international players 30 years ago, like Tony Ku coach were a notch below Scotty Pippen, a notch below Barkley. They were a notch below Michael Jordan or a Sean Camp. You'd have a Tony KU coach and he was, you know, 30 years ago or whatever it was international players, I mean, they were good, but they weren't taking over the league well. I mean, and that was our soccer players. They could play internationally, but, you know, they weren't changing. They weren't changing outcomes. Well, now Pulisic now is AC Milan's best or second best player. So it's a whole different ballgame. So he's like, yeah, the world changes. I'm going to pivot to cash and country and I'm going to defend the NBA guys and I'm going to defend the soccer guys. Now, now, now, again, Landon Donovan, and I don't think he's wrong here, says, okay, that's fine, but the new manager has to take a stand.

[Unknown]

He had to address it. He, I think, was ready to move on. He wanted to move on, guys. But then your best player and one of the leaders on your team does an interview publicly and says, I wanted to go, but the coach wouldn't let me and the coach didn't want me there. He had to stand up for himself. One, to send a message to Christian, two, to send a message to the team and the pool, but also for himself. You cannot be the coach that gets walked on by your star player. So for his future, everybody's paying attention. People are going to possibly hire him. Mo. He can't just let his best player walk all over him like that. He had to respond.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I totally agree. And for years I've said this. I've always felt the one sport that international soccer is, is most closely resembling is basketball. It's a sport of artists. It's a very creative sport. The stars become incredibly rich and culturally significant. Messi and Pele and Ronaldo and Mbappe and LeBron and Steph. Not all great players, but. But I, I don't feel like baseball feels like the NBA or soccer, but I, I always felt there's an artistry to basketball. The great players of all time. And there's also a cultural significance to soccer and basketball. I mean, look at all the money baske make on apparel and shoes. Football guys don't. Baseball guys can make some shoe or glove money, but not like basketball. So I do think my comp to basketball and soccer, I think it's somewhat legitimate. And I'm. And I'm. And I also think that an international star in soccer or basketball, you know, you don't have 22 starters like football or in baseball where a third of the team's down in the bullpen. You know, you have one great player can change outcomes in soccer and basketball, and that's why they're so highly compensated. And I'm going to support him. So Matt Hasselbeck, couple minutes here before the top of the hour. And Rachel Nichols. Matt Hasselbeck stopped by earlier and I get a. I'm getting a lot of pushback on Shador Sanders. And the pushback is. Hey, Colin. He's playing against backups. Yes, yes. He's also throwing the backups. But there's One thing completing 60% of your throws, throwing the backups, and another thing completing next to 80% throwing the backups. He is the most accurate quarterback of every OTA and minicamp. Just like in college, he was the most accurate quarterback. You would think Ohio State would have the most accurate quarterback because they had all the great receivers and they have the great run game and the great coaching. No, it was Colorado's with a battle alignment, no run game. And so I think the kid's significant. He's doing exactly what he did in college. I don't know if it means he's any good in the NFL level, but I do think he's a franchise quarterback. And I offered that to Hasselbeck. I said it's not. It'd be one thing if he was completing 62% and everybody else, Joe Flacco was completing 59%. He's like, he's almost at 80%. Here's Matt.

[Colin Cowherd]

So far in camp, I've been very impressed. I've been very impressed. And I'm not somebody that gets, you know, all worked up over what someone looks like in, you know, helmet and T shirt. But Shador has been very impressive. It's a really complicated and intriguing quarterback room. Four guys in that room, when you're only going to keep two, maybe three, someone's got to go. And all four guys could actually, you know, I think in you could make the argument that all four guys could give them the best chance as a starter. It's a really intriguing thing.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, I'll tell you this the most interesting starter for the Cleveland Browns, and you may not think that matters, but with this owner, it matters. The most interesting quarterback. You know, we talked about earlier, if I said you're not going to believe what Blank did Ohtani Caitlin Clark, if I said to you a certain quarterback started for the Cleveland Browns in the one o' clock window week two, and it was the highest rated game in the one o' clock window, it's not Dylan Gabriel. Nothing against Dylan and his family. It's not Dylan Gabriel or Kenny Pickett or Joe Flacco. It's Shador Sanders. And when you're not a good team and you have a reasonably impulsive owner who many suggest was the one that leaned on the front office and Kevin Stefanski to draft him, he's going to get a shot. These people say it's Kenny Pickett's job to lose. Kenny Pickett's a nice guy. He's Kenny Pickett. Nobody's turning on a tv. Nobody. Nobody's. I mean, there's a little bit of Baker Mayfield, although I think Baker was a better prospect. Baker's got a better Army Baker, no question. I didn't love Baker, some of his maturity stuff, but Baker was. He can still spin it. I don't think Sedur is that good of a prospect, but they have a similarity in that. I couldn't wait to watch Baker Mayfield play. I wanted to see if it worked out. And then pretty quickly you learned, yeah, he's a starter in this league, he's a starter. Maybe not top 10, but he's a starter. I think Shedeur's a slightly lesser version of that. Hour three in a Monday Next.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Matt Hasselbeck]

I've been around long enough to know.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Matt Hasselbeck]

This is an iHeart podcast.