Hour 2 - Where Colin was right and wrong

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: Hour 2 - Where Colin Was Right and Wrong
Release Date: June 23, 2025

---

Introduction

The Herd with Colin Cowherd, hosted by Rick Bucher and featuring guest John Middlekauff, delves into the intricacies of recent sports events, analyzing where Colin Cowherd's predictions and opinions hit the mark or missed the mark. This episode focuses primarily on the Oklahoma City Thunder's championship run, key player trades, and broader NFL and college football dynamics.

---

Oklahoma City Thunder's Championship Run

Where Colin Was Right

Timestamp: [03:15] – [04:27]

John Middlekauff acknowledges Colin's accurate predictions regarding the Thunder's performance attributes:

• Defense: "Oklahoma City's defense was great." ([03:15])
• Rick Carlisle's Coaching: "[Rick Carlisle] let it half SGA, got to the free throw line." ([03:15])
• Bench Strength: "OKC's bench was very good. Young benches usually are at home." ([03:15])

Middlekauff highlights that despite Tyrese Halliburton's injury, the Thunder's structure and depth allowed them to navigate tough matchups, maintaining consistency irrespective of individual setbacks.

Where Colin Was Wrong

Timestamp: [05:43] – [10:09]

Rick Bucher critiques Colin's earlier trust in young playoff teams, particularly Oklahoma City, arguing that the Thunder's playoff success was more due to strategic roster construction rather than inherent team strength:

• Roster Depth and Youth: "I don't trust young playoff teams... they remained healthy." ([05:43])
• Halliburton's Injury Impact: "I didn't know if this team was going to win... they didn't mow through Indiana and they didn't mow through Denver." ([05:43])

Bucher contends that Colin underestimated the unpredictability and inconsiderate elements affecting young teams, such as Halliburton's injury, which altered the expected dynamics of the championship series.

---

Kevin Durant's Trade to Houston Rockets

Timestamp: [05:41] – [13:55]

John praises Colin's endorsement of Kevin Durant's move to the Rockets, describing it as an "obvious fit" due to the Rockets' roster needs:

• Team Fit: "Houston didn't have to give up a second first-round pick." ([05:41])
• Durant's Role: "He's a get a bucket guy... He's agreeable, he can catch and shoot it." ([05:41])

However, there is some debate over the long-term fit and whether Phoenix Suns will retain key players like Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks, emphasizing the strategic depth and future prospects of the Rockets post-trade.

---

Team USA's Gold Cup Performance

Timestamp: [04:29] – [06:57]

The discussion shifts to the U.S. Men's National Soccer Team's surprising performance in the Gold Cup:

• Scoring Prowess: "They're the highest scoring team right now in the Gold Cup." ([04:29])
• Offensive Creativity: Despite missing key players like Pulisic and McKinney, the team showed competence and adaptability.

John expresses surprise at the team's offensive efficiency despite internal distractions and questions regarding their goalkeeping reliability.

---

Lakers’ Potential Sale to Mark Walter

Timestamp: [06:57] – [09:43]

John discusses Colin's insights into the potential sale of the Lakers to Mark Walter:

• Brand Enhancement: "They've needed to graduate to the next level... the billionaire club for several years." ([06:57])
• Market Comparison: Comparing the Lakers' brand to the Cincinnati Bengals, highlighting the need for fresh perspectives in maintaining competitiveness.

John concurs that the acquisition would propel the Lakers into becoming a more formidable sports brand, aligning with Colin's five-year advocacy.

---

Shedeur Sanders' Maturity and Potential

Timestamp: [06:59] – [15:20]

Rick Bucher critiques Colin's evaluation of Shedeur Sanders, suggesting he overvalued Sanders' potential without adequately considering his maturity issues:

• Immaturity Concerns: "He lacks the judgment and self-awareness for a position that demands an adult and great decision-making." ([06:59])
• Skill Assessment: "At 24 years old, he's a good quarterback prospect. He's not special." ([06:59])

John acknowledges Sanders as a promising yet unproven talent, emphasizing the need for evaluating personal growth alongside athletic prowess.

---

Dodgers vs. Padres Rivalry

Timestamp: [10:09] – [16:41]

John highlights the intense rivalry between the Dodgers and Padres, validating Colin's prediction:

• Competitive Dynamics: "This is everything a rivalry should be... it's a must-watch television." ([10:09])
• Player Movements: The switch of Machado from Dodgers to Padres adds to the rivalry's depth.
• Game Intensity: Recent series featured ejections, drama, and high-stakes competition, mirroring playoff intensity.

---

Caitlin Clark's Impact on Women's Basketball

Timestamp: [16:41] – [21:23]

John emphasizes Caitlin Clark's transformative influence, aligning with Colin's assertions:

• Popularity Surge: "Sophia Cunningham... sold her jerseys out in a day." ([16:41])
• Caitlin as a Central Figure: "Caitlin Clark isn't part of the moment. She is the moment." ([20:58])

Clark's performance and influence have elevated the visibility and commercial success of women's basketball, marking her as a pivotal figure in the sport.

---

Roster Construction and Playoff Strategies

Timestamp: [21:23] – [26:59]

Rick and John dive into the complexities of modern basketball roster construction, debating strategies for enduring long seasons and playoffs:

• Depth and Versatility: Emphasizing the need for nine to ten-man rotations to withstand the physical demands ([24:05]).
• Shortened Seasons Debate: Colin opposes shortening seasons, advocating for the grind as a championship metric ([26:06]).
• LeBron’s Influence: Discussion on how star players like LeBron influence team strategies and durability ([26:10]).

John and Rick debate the balance between maintaining player health and preserving the traditional rigors that define championship-worthy teams.

---

NBA Draft Analysis and Player Prospects

Timestamp: [19:56] – [24:05]

The conversation shifts to the upcoming NBA Draft, assessing the strength of the draft class and potential franchise changers:

• Strong Domestic Draft: "This appears to be one of the stronger drafts in the last five years." ([21:59])
• Prospective Stars: Highlighting promising players like a standout guard from Rutgers and their potential impact ([22:38]).

John and Rick analyze the likelihood of top picks becoming core team members, weighing their current skills against future potential.

---

College Football and NFL Dynamics

Timestamp: [33:09] – [40:25]

The panel expands their analysis to college football and the NFL, covering:

• Transfer Portal Impact: Discussing how heavy reliance on the transfer portal by coaches like Lincoln Riley affects team chemistry and performance ([36:47]).
• NFL Playoff Seeding Rules: Debating the effectiveness of current playoff seating structures and potential changes ([31:49]).
• New York Giants' Quarterback Room: Evaluating the Giants' revamped quarterback lineup, featuring Russell Wilson and Jackson Dart, and predicting future performance ([38:40]).

This segment highlights the challenges teams face in maintaining consistency and adapting to evolving league rules and player dynamics.

---

Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Timestamp: [40:29] – [46:07]

Rick Bucher wraps up the discussion by reflecting on the Thunder's championship and broader sports narratives:

• Youth vs. Experience: Emphasizing the Thunder's youthful roster as both a strength and a limitation due to experience gaps ([46:07]).
• Future Projections: Predicting how current trades and roster changes will influence team performances in upcoming seasons ([51:00]).

John and Rick conclude with optimistic yet realistic assessments of team potentials, underscoring the unpredictable nature of sports.

---

Notable Quotes

1. John Middlekauff on Durability:
   "Oklahoma City's defense was great." ([03:15])

2. Rick Bucher on Young Teams:
   "I don't trust young playoff teams... they remained healthy." ([05:43])

3. John Middlekauff on Caitlin Clark:
   "Caitlin Clark isn't part of the moment. She is the moment." ([20:58])

4. Colin Cowherd on Championship Metrics:
   "We have to do what OKC in Indiana did, which is we have to get into the idea that we're going to play nine and 10 man rotations in the playoffs." ([26:29])

5. Rick Bucher on Kevin Durant's Trade:
   "Wherever the best player goes, Houston, they win the trade." ([51:00])

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd provides a comprehensive analysis of recent sports events, highlighting the interplay between youth and experience, strategic trades, and the evolving dynamics of team construction. Through insightful discussions and expert critiques, Rick Bucher and John Middlekauff offer listeners a nuanced understanding of where Colin Cowherd's perspectives align or diverge from broader sports realities.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rick Bucher]

Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience seamlessly integrates powerful performance, its bold, daring design, a refined interior, details, cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric suv. Compromise. Not one of them if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright. Rocket Mortgage can help you turn your home equity into cash and that can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition or pay off consolidated high interest debt. To learn more, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states, nmlsconsumeraccess.org number 3030 Wasabi Technologies is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from those old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the go to provider of for professional and collegiate sports teams around the world. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, Wasabi is driving innovation in data storage, all for up to 80% less than the other guys. Triumph for [e-mail] Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage proud partner of the Volume Podcast Network summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now let's get this party started.

[Rick Bucher]

You're Listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go, hour two. It is a Monday. We are live. And it's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. My buddy John Middlecock, part of the Volume 3 Now podcast, is joining us this week. J. Mac is, I think he's doing a volleyball tournament in Scottsdale down in your home.

[John Middlekauff]

Switch spots.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, a little warm. It's a little warm. So I don't want to be Mr. Buzzkill. I know I, I, I stay off the phone, right, like. But I'm probably getting crushed today because I just think we have to be honest. And I do think Oklahoma City has become another one of these teams where I'm kind of left watching it thinking, yeah, yeah, I guess they're the champ. It's roster construction, it's defense, it's depth. And I, I just got, when Halliburton got hurt last night, it just was a gut punch. I felt so bad for him. I felt bad for me as a consumer. Just wasn't that interesting. So we do it every Monday where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. And here we go, where Colin was right. I said last week, Five things I trust will happen in Game 7. And they mostly did. Oklahoma City's defense was great. Rick Carlisle's coaching, I mean, they let it half SGA, got to the free throw line and OKC's bench was very good. Young benches usually are at home. So I think this game, Game seven, I don't know who would have won without Halliburton's injury, but I thought it was a fairly predictable sequence of events that would occur regardless of the winner.

[John Middlekauff]

Where Colin was raw.

[Rick Bucher]

I don't trust young playoff teams. In fact, the bubble is the only time in my adult life where young teams flourished. And I had my questions about okc. Yeah, they'll be great in the regular season. And they ended up being a very mediocre road playoff team, but they remained healthy. They were good at home. They won the games they had to against Indy and Denver. And so I didn't know if this team was going to win. I kept being told, colin, they're going to mow through the West. Well, they didn't mow through Indiana and they didn't mow through Denver. But I'll take it wrong where Colin was right, Kevin Durant to the Rockets. To me, this was the obvious fit. You know, Houston didn't have to give up a second first round pick. And now Phoenix is sort of ball centric guard heavy. So I don't know what it looks like for Phoenix, but I do think he works here and The Suns were 3 and 17 when he didn't play. He's a get a bucket guy. He's agreeable, he can catch and shoot it. He's got length. He's going to give you about 60, 65 games. But because of the construct of the Rockets roster, that's going to be okay. So I like the move for KD.

[John Middlekauff]

Where Collin was raw.

[Rick Bucher]

Team usa. How about this? Plus seven point differential. Number one in the Gold cup so far. Surprising because I think without pulisic and Weston McKinney they lack creativity in the midfield but they're the highest scoring team right now in the Gold Cup. What's interesting is we don't know what we're doing in goal, which is usually our strength as a country. They were distracted and kind of, to be honest, reeling before the Gold Cup. So I am surprised as the competition ratcheted up that they've scored and been this competent where Colin was right. Well, multiple sources in an ESPN story reported around the NBA. The Lakers selling to Mark Walter was going to help the Lakers become what I've been preaching for five years, a big time sports brand. They're very mom and pop. They're very Cincinnati Bengals with a much better brand. Very small, insular. They need a fresh set of eyes and perspective. I think this was needed and the ESPN article last week had multiple sources saying they've needed to graduate to the next level. The billionaire club for several years.

[John Middlekauff]

Where Colin was wrong.

[Rick Bucher]

Well Shedeur Sanders immaturity and bad judgment. I'm selling my stock. It's not the end of the world and nobody's saying it is. But when you're a fifth round marginal prospect at quarterback, the maturity position, you can't get caught speeding twice in a week going over 90 miles an hour. You just lack the judgment and self awareness for a position, fair or not, that demands an adult and great decision making. At 24 years old, he's a good quarterback prospect. He's not special. He's not great. He doesn't have a huge arm. He doesn't move like Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray. In the end I overvalued him, overlooked some of his maturity stumbles and now here we are where Colin was right. Dodgers, Padres. We've been on this since last year in the playoffs. This is the best rivalry in sports. Maybe it is an unbelievable rivalry. They met last week. We had ejections, drama, suspensions. They were throwing at each other. The managers were bumping walk off home runs. This is everything a rivalry should be. There's a proximity geographically, Machado, the former Dodger, is now a Padre. The Padres are young and cocky. The Dodgers are winners and more established. All the great things that make a great sports rivalry. And that's a baseball series in June that had the feeling of a playoff series. We said it last year. This not the Yankees and Red Sox is must watch television where Colin was right. I've talked about that. Caitlin Clark isn't part of the moment. She is the moment. Last week Sophie Cunningham, who's been in the WNBA seven years, sold her jerseys out in a day. And the 3,350,000 IG followers by just fouling somebody hard in support of Caitlin Clark. Sophie Cunningham's been around seven years. Nobody paid much attention. Suddenly you can't keep her jerseys on the rack because she's just defending Caitlin Clark. That is the definition of a transformative basketball player. Caitlin Clark is not part of it. She is the moment. It is a Taylor Swift tour. I don't care who plays before and after. I don't care about anybody else on the label. It's all about Caitlin Clark. Colin, right? Colin wrong on a Monday. And with that, Rick Bucher is now saddling in. He's going to join us today. A perfect guest. So I was Mr. Buzzkill in the opening segment.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, you were. My goodness.

[Rick Bucher]

I know. And listen, I'm happy for champions. It's a small market. It's like the packers winning. Like you feel good for them. But we have seven years and this is now Adam Silver's NBA. If I. If you'd never seen OKC playing, I said, there's this team, they have one elite score. He was awful. From three point had three bad games. Oh. Their number two and three scores were no shows in multiple games. Oh, and they won.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

Can we be honest? Is roster construction and defense is what we'll remember this champion as?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I'll remember it as the youngest champion that we've ever seen. So all of those warts that you mentioned out mentioned which are legit are a byproduct of that. And yes, the air was taken out of it when Tyrese Halliburton got like. Unfortunately, we had our expectations for a game seven the way this series had gone back and forth. But the poise and maturity that they showed throughout the playoffs in spite of their youth impressed me. And yes, we're just getting introduced to these guys and let's face it, Che Gilgis, Alexander for an mvp. And for. I mean, you just, you just look at the, at the, at the body of, of this team. Like, you don't have any personalities that jump out at you. Like, they just don't have those dynamics. You don't have, like, I mean, Dylan Brooks would be like Ronald McDonald on this team. You just be like, he'd be neon.

[Rick Bucher]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, they don't have. They're just a bunch of nice guys winning a championship so young that the vast majority of them, I mean, Alex Caruso is probably the biggest personality, right. In terms of just kind of presence and aura. These guys didn't know how to open up champagne bottles. That's how young they are.

[Rick Bucher]

I. And I'm not criticizing him for it, but Chad Holgren disappeared. J Dub was all over the map. Generally, that would signal you're in trouble.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, well, but let's keep in mind, prior to this year, which is what made this run such a surprise, they had never been past the second round. Like, this is a team full of guys. And I felt it in game six, they got the championship jitters.

[Rick Bucher]

I questioned.

[Colin Cowherd]

And they did in game seven as well, in spite of the absence of Tyrese. Like, there was suddenly, in the fourth quarter, like, wait a minute, could. Could the Pacers make a comeback in this. And here I experienced this with the San Antonio Spurs. I believe it's part of what happens in small markets is that it means so much to the fans there. And look, I'm not saying that the New York Knicks and the Lakers fans, but there's. They're conditioned, expect big things, right? So when things go a little wobbly, they don't immediately go, oh, are we not going to get what we've always wanted our entire lives? Well, there is that vibe in the building, and teams, particularly young, young teams, pick up on that. I saw the San Antonio spurs go through the same thing. Their crowd would get so nervous that they would start to press. And there were probably some. Some games and some championships that they, they missed out on because they were affected by that crowd. I saw the same thing with Oklahoma City, but I am not taking anything away.

[Rick Bucher]

You.

[Colin Cowherd]

It sounds like you are taking something away from, first of all, because it wasn't entertaining enough for the great Colin Cow.

[Rick Bucher]

No, the Hal. I mean, listen, you put it out there. I mean, just. They were an average road team in the playoffs. Their regular season attributes were deserved, but it largely was a young team playing with high energy and depth. And, you know, the Derrick Rose Bulls regular seasons Reward the focused and energized. Sure, they were going to be a regular season juggernaut. Just like I think Houston was a great regular season team, but you knew.

[Colin Cowherd]

They weren't going to get there.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, they didn't have enough shooting. I am not like, my take is, you deserve it. I'm happy for you. But it felt small, and they felt like the Halliburton injury was a bit of a break because Indy was playing and Halliburton was playing. Yeah, totally on game early.

[Colin Cowherd]

This would have felt different if the Boston Celtics had been there. I think part of it was the opponents.

[Rick Bucher]

That's true. Like, that's right. You're absolutely right.

[Colin Cowherd]

From the very beginning, like, OKC was supposed to win this, and a lot of people thought they would win it handled. I didn't. I didn't see it that way because I thought that the Pacers had more than people gave them credit for. But so it felt. And I think people are downgrading Oklahoma City's championship now because they're like, it was the Indiana Pacers, and you had to go to seven games to knock them out. But I still. I'm gonna look at the fact that they are so young, and their regular season record had us all expecting them to get it done. I think they expected to get it done, but they had so little experience at this level.

[Rick Bucher]

The game six in Indy, when they just laid an absolute egg, was. And that's when I kind of changed. I was like, sure. I said on the air after that game, I'm like, okay, these are good teams.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

I was still holding on them. Like, if they win in game six at Indy, blow them out. And I'm like, okay, that's. That's bad.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, for a championship team, it feels like they have another step to take.

[Rick Bucher]

Oh, God, no. Qu. They'll be much better next year. Holmgren. I don't know what I get from him offensively.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, well, I think he. I mean, I think people discount the fact or don't take into account the fact that he's played as little as he has. He's played one full season. He missed 50 games this year.

[Rick Bucher]

Didn't he play one year at Gonzaga?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, that's it.

[Colin Cowherd]

So there's that. But I don't. I don't know if they're going to be back in the finals next year. I don't know how much better they're going to be next year because I think we've. We've automatically. We looked at Denver and Milwaukee And Boston the last three champions. And we're like, oh, this is the beginning of a run. And that hasn't been the case for any of them.

[Rick Bucher]

Right. I got fooled by Denver. I got fooled. I thought they were going to keep Brown and KCP and I. And I. I thought they. Michael Porters. I thought, oh, was a bit overvalued, by the way. So I ranked the last seven champions, one through seven. You're already smirking. You already have this full disclosure.

[Colin Cowherd]

I've seen it ahead of time.

[Rick Bucher]

So Toronto again, it.

[Colin Cowherd]

How much? Can I just ask a question? No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

[Rick Bucher]

No, how. How much? What?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I'll ask it after you show it because it makes sense.

[Rick Bucher]

So you're gonna push back. I think the Celtics have the best of. I mean, Jalen Brown was their number two player. Nobody in OKC is as good as Jalen Brown consistently as a number two. I mean, Tatum and Brown are better than SG anybody. And I also think when Derek White's your four, he's an elite defender and was a very consistent eye. When you can go to Al.

[Colin Cowherd]

Pure talent.

[Rick Bucher]

Pure talent. Horford off the bench, you know, Drew.

[Colin Cowherd]

Holiday, all of it, but pure talent. Boston Celtics better than this.

[Rick Bucher]

Okay, Lakers. Celt Lakers, because AD in their prime. LeBron close to prime. What? What is that reaction? Who's wrong on that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Nick Wright put this together. He had to have this. Is. Is there small type on the bottom a Nick Wright production? It has to be. Look, I agree with you at the bottom of the list, but the fifth team should be the Los Angeles Lakers winning in an antiseptic environment. We just talked about the Thunder. What's that?

[Rick Bucher]

That's harder.

[Colin Cowherd]

No home court, no road. You just talked about the Oklahoma City Thunder having to go through that. You have an Anthony Davis and LeBron James who can't stay healthy through an entire season. And we're going to take three months off in the bnm. We're going to basically play two half seasons and they win a championship off of that. And you're going to put them at the top of the list. The Boston Celtics, talent wise, are much better at. At their peak at that. That 2020 team. Anthony Davis you said was prime. Anthony Davis. I would push back on that a little bit, but let's say I. I'll go with you on that. Is prime Anthony Davis better than prime Nicola Jokic in. In. No, no, 2023?

[Rick Bucher]

The problem was with that Nuggets team. They didn't play any defense. A bad defensive team. The Lakers Were an exceptional defensive team with very good role players. A dominant big LeBron antiseptic basketball. They were fighting Covid.

[Colin Cowherd]

There were just so many variables that are so unusual that to put them number one. Like I might even let you skate if you had them like third or fourth, but you have them. There's no Nick somewhere right now is going. You tell him, Colin.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, we're good friends. Okay, how about this? Stunned. At this point, everybody wants to pick a winner and a loser son. Should have got Suns. Now just have a bunch of guard guards that want the ball in their hands. You know, it's Jalen Green, it's Bradley Beal, it's Booker, it's like it. But if the number 10 pick can play and Jalen Green is productive, we'll see. I do feel like if you could have told me a player for Houston to grab, I would have said in the whole league, I would have said that guy. It feels like a perfect fit.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's Considering what they gave up, which I don't think was a whole lot. Jalen Green got exposed in the playoffs as not being your go to guy. Dillon Brooks you got to add into the equation in order to make the numbers work. And only one first round pick. I don't care about the second round picks. That felt like a consolation prize. But I think you're looking at it from the Phoenix end in not a complete way. I don't believe that Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks are long for that team.

[Rick Bucher]

Okay. So I'm going to keep moving pieces.

[Colin Cowherd]

What they got was movable pieces. And I can see a playoff team needing that last defensive fire starter type.

[Rick Bucher]

That's a buddy of mine.

[Colin Cowherd]

Going to get a Dillon Brooks.

[Rick Bucher]

Absolutely.

[Colin Cowherd]

Or a young team that says, oh, we can get a number two pick in Jalen Green who's still young and the contract is right. Like I see those as additional first round picks. They're in the process of dismantling the Phoenix Suns and this was the best deal that they could make under the circumstances. I still think the ideal place for Kevin Durant would have been the Denver Nuggets. And I would have given up Jamal Murray to make that happen because the idea of Nikola Jokic being her orchestrator and Aaron Gordon and Kevin Durant flanking him. I'm sure what the. What the Nuggets offered was Michael. Some package involving Michael Porter and Peyton Watson and. And a pick or whatever and this was more attractive. The Houston. Houston package was. But if I'm Kevin Durant and I have my choice between the two. And Kevin did drive this. I mean, it's why.

[Rick Bucher]

That's what it sounds like.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. It's why they had to make the best deal possible. If I was Kevin, I would have been looking at Denver rather than Houston.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. And they also have enough length. He doesn't have to play 75 games. He doesn't have to be a rim protector. They got a lot of length and a lot of you.

[Colin Cowherd]

He doesn't have to be a leader.

[Rick Bucher]

That's exactly.

[Colin Cowherd]

Doesn't have to be a leader.

[Rick Bucher]

He can be a scorer and that's when he's at his best.

[Colin Cowherd]

Between Ime Odoka and Fred Van Vliet and the culture that they have created, all he has to do is go in and do what he likes to do, which is to hoop.

[Rick Bucher]

So the draft is Wednesday and you know, I think this is a very strong domestic draft. There are people who I've been following for years who say there are 12 players who have potential and the right fit could be all star level players. It does sound like a. One of the Rutgers kids. The kid going Harper 2, I think is really an interesting player. Don't know about the bigger kid. Doesn't have assists, not a playmaker, not showing up to workouts. What are you hearing about the draft? Do you think there'll be movement? Because we see this in the NFL, Rick, where you have weak. This past draft was a weak draft.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

This appears to be one of the stronger drafts in the last five years.

[Colin Cowherd]

In depth wise. I don't know that there are any like franchise changers. There's probably going to be one because.

[Rick Bucher]

There always is Cooper flag.

[Colin Cowherd]

But the day. I don't think he's a. I don't think he's. I think he's part of a corpse. I don't think he's your number one.

[Rick Bucher]

Wow.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't think he's a number one.

[Rick Bucher]

You don't think he's as good as Jayson Tatum? All the numbers back and forth.

[Colin Cowherd]

In terms of exactly where Jason. Jason Tatum is a number one with the right pieces around him. Right. So yeah. Can he kind of be that? Yeah, I can put him in the. Jason.

[Rick Bucher]

He's a more aggressive offensive player than Tatum and a better defender at this point.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, I would agree with that. He's got a little more nasty to him than Tatum does.

[Rick Bucher]

No question about that.

[Colin Cowherd]

I need to see how his athletic, the level of his athleticism because I think that what he was able to get done at Duke and at the college level is because of his size and his length was a, was such a significant advantage. He's big, but he's going to play that 3, 4 and, and you've got to be super quick and athletic to play that in today's game. I need to see whether his, whether he has enough of that. And the other, the other part that always makes a little nervous is that he already has a very refined game. His, his skills are already at a really high level. How much better can he get in those categories? I think that's going to be the question.

[Rick Bucher]

I think he's. When I watched him at Duke, my takeaway was always, wow, he's aggressive and he is long.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

He's a big, big kid.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

That's what makes him a good defender.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Rick Bucher]

He can match up with and he.

[Colin Cowherd]

Knows how to use his length. So. Yeah, no, no, I like him as a two way player. I like. Like if you were asking me can he be the core of a championship team? Based on what I've seen, sure. I think he has all the ingredients. Can he lead a championship team? That's what I would. That's what I need to see. And I don't know if he has that elite athletic ability that is necessary to fit that.

[Rick Bucher]

Finally. I've been on this for years. The playoffs started April 15th, ten days before the draft and they just wrapped up. Ten weeks is a long time. With a $76 billion deal, everybody's going to eat. We don't need seven game first rounders. We had eight Achilles tears, three in the playoffs. The game now has more spacing, more movement, more herky jerky. Among greater athletes, players don't play themselves into shape. I think the NBA has to look at these injuries and go guys and baseball's done this and they've all worked.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

We do not need 10 weeks of the playoffs. We do not need seven game first rounders. You know, these Achilles tears. That's an old man injury. That's a wear and tear injury.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I won. I don't know that that's the solution. I agree with you that the wear and tear, that this is a byproduct of the way the game is played now. It's more athletic than ever. It's more up and down. There is more stress. I would say that Tyrese Halliburton, the reason that he had that injury much the same way that KD was because they made a run to the Eastern conference finals last year and they were in the finals this year back to back years. The way the Game is played. Now when you have players that you rely on as much as the Pacers do in Tyrese Halliburton in order to push the tempo, you open yourselves up to this. I believe they have to look at much like what OKC has done and in part what Indiana has done is that your depth and versatility of your. Of your team is the answer. Your roster is the answer to being able to survive a season and a long playoff run. The reason that I don't like the idea of shortening it is because I do believe that grind and enduring the season and the post season is part of what makes you a champion. And we would be changing the metric in terms of how a championship team.

[Rick Bucher]

Ultimately, we don't care about the stats like that, do we?

[Colin Cowherd]

Honestly, I think that LeBron wants it to go to 40 minutes because he knows that it will take everybody out of ever challenging any of his numbers. So that was Shade right there. I'm. Yes, that was Shade. This is. I'm getting back to the beginning with your Lakers. Your. Your Lakers take.

[Rick Bucher]

You always tell me you're such a LeBron fan. It sounds like it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think the roster. I think the rost. I. That's a whole nother subject. I think the roster. They have to accept that the rosters need to be expanded and that GMs have to do a better job of understanding the way the game's played. We have to do what OKC in Indiana did, which is we have to get into the idea that we're going to play nine and 10 man rotations in the playoffs.

[Rick Bucher]

Which has never been done.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. I think the reason you saw the last two teams standing was because of how they approached it.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. Great stuff. Rick Bucher. I love my list. Lakers number one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh my God.

[Rick Bucher]

Trustandwill.com makes it easy. There's in creating personalized trust and wills to protect your assets, family and loved ones. Protect your family. Trustandwill.com today for total peace of mind and check out my my seven year ranking. I think it's right spot on.

[Colin Cowherd]

You and I have to spend more time together. You're hanging out with the wrong.

[Rick Bucher]

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hi, this is Jay. I'm the producer of the Paulie and Tony Fusco show. Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to this show so it can get canceled. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What the hell are you doing in our studio? Get him, Paulie. Ignore that fool.

[John Middlekauff]

Listen to the Paul and Tony Fusco.

[Rick Bucher]

Show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. He's still moving.

[Alexi Lalas]

This July 4th celebrate freedom from spills, stains and overpriced furniture with Annabe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Annabe's pet friendly, Stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your Life. Now through July 4th, get up to 60% off site [e-mail] Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees. Every penny back. Declare independence from dirty outdated furniture. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Rick Bucher]

Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chick parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details at the end of the season. There's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate. The BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified. Introducing the new Dell AI PC. Powered by the Intel Core Ultra processor, It helps do your busy work for you so you can fast forward through. Editing images, designing presentations, generating code, debugging code, summarizing meeting notes, finding files, managing your schedule, responding to Jim's long emails, leaving all the time in the world for the things you actually want to do. No offense, Jim. Get A new Dell AI PC starting at [e-mail] AI PC how those ahead? Stay ahead. Good to have Rick Bucher stop by. Alexi Lawless last hour. A goal keeping snafu almost got us in trouble. The United States men's national team. We'll talk to Alexi last hour. Here's John Middelkoff with the news. No, no, no, no. Heard on the news.

[John Middlekauff]

This is the Herd line news. Typically, divisional winners may have earned the right to open the playoffs at home, regardless of the record. Well, this offseason there was a rule change proposal that would have taken that away, but for this season, the playoff seating remains unchanged. Pete Carroll is one of the famous benefactors of the seating and he discussed it with his former running back, Marshawn Lynch. I was voting for that other rule. You know, I was. I was voting for the Division 1 and I just like the structure. You know, I'm old fashioned about it maybe, but whatever. But I like the structure and I like the. The championship within the championship. You know, that's just part of it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Remember what we did with it?

[Rick Bucher]

Remember the freaking game? Nobody would ever have thought we, you.

[John Middlekauff]

Know, they said, oh, this is the worst matchup in the history of the NFL. And coach, I remember the whole week we didn't even get.

[Rick Bucher]

Wasn't even close to getting murdered. One going away. Yeah, I mean, I always kind of feel like it all works itself out. For years in college football, the third best SEC team could have won the Big 12. Like this idea that it's going to be perfectly linear and the best teams. Well, there's upsets in sports all the time. So it doesn't bother me. I think if a team is a 9 and 8 team and they end up winning a division against a 13 and 5 team, well, the 13, 5 team, if they're legit, will go on the road and win.

[John Middlekauff]

Look at last year, the Rams did not have as good of a record as Minnesota and they got to host the game. I have no problem with that. When you go seven, nine, which now would be eight, nine, I, I think we'd probably be surprised if we ever see a 7 and 10 team win a division. But if you go 8, 9, I don't think you should get a playoff game. I'm okay. Division winner, you get.

[Rick Bucher]

How about you get a playoff game because you win your division. You don't get a home playoff game.

[John Middlekauff]

Because think of what, you know, Seattle, it's one of the loudest places in the league. After the time the, the Marshawn lynch run. I mean, that's to the disadvantage. The Saints, who are the defending super bowl champions.

[Rick Bucher]

Dome team, that's tough.

[John Middlekauff]

That's outdoors in the, the weather. I mean, a huge advantage for the Saints is they play in dome. And so you got to go out to a team that won 7, 9. The NFC west has come a long way, Colin. That division used to be pretty bad when Pete Carroll first got there.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. You know what, it does feel like that the northern divisions right now are really powerful and once again the AFC south and the NFC south. And it feels like it's been a long decade long stretch that the AFC and NFC South. Maybe it's because the SEC is so watched and drives so much revenue. I don't know what it is, but I do feel like the southern divisions in the NFL are really weak.

[John Middlekauff]

Well, I think Peyton and Luck, you know, they kind of left Indy and Matt Ryan got old fast. I mean, they had a couple Drew brewing. I saw an article the other day. His shoulder doesn't even work. So I mean, they had a couple quarterbacks, both those two divisions, and now they do not and they are not good.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

How about this one, Colin? A former NFL coach who's now in college. Bill Belichick, who's in North Carolina. But the entire off season has revolved around the drama surrounding his girlfriend, Jordan Hudson. Coming off his CBS interview, Belichick had previously accused their crew of editing the piece to create a quote, false narrative regarding Hudson's effort to control the conversation. Now it's being reported that Belichick believes CBS tried to slyly set up a camera on her set to set her up, adding that she only tried to prevent the interview from probing into personal matters.

[Rick Bucher]

So he's basically saying CBS at the time, unbeknownst to him, set up a camera that was only poised on her. So they were, they, they were looking for a gotcha moment.

[John Middlekauff]

Here's what I know that North Carolina, Bill Belichick, they need the season to start. They need training camp wherever they're having it. Probably some in the hills, the pads and Bill with the whistle spinning that thing around. Just let's start playing some football. The football season cannot come fast enough. The problem Instagram. We got a summer. They're traveling.

[Rick Bucher]

How about this? This is the easy one. So you and I love college football.

[John Middlekauff]

Love it.

[Rick Bucher]

I mean you and you really know it. So Lincoln Riley went heavy transfer portal. The chemistry's never been right. Brian Kelly, LSU football factory heavy portal never felt right. Deion Sanders had to kind of disappointing last year. Now Clemson hasn't used it at all. It's hurt them. We have multiple examples where coaches who have won a lot of games, Lincoln and Brian Kelly and even Deion before Colorado. Do you worry that Belichick, who doesn't know the sport, limited practice time. This is going to be a heavy transfer portal roster and history tells us recent history. You can never by the way, Miami, huge transfer portal and it just doesn't feel like it works.

[John Middlekauff]

Won a lot of games with Tom Brady and I'm pretty sure his quarterback this year is a transfer from South Alabama. I mean it's. I know we talk down upon the ACC sometimes but Clemson was a playoff team. Florida State's going to have a ton to prove. Bill o' Brien had Boston College competitive last year. It's actually from a coaching standpoint, not terrible. NC State had a down year. Usually they're pretty solid with NFL players. North Carolina just lost their best player down the road to Jim Harbaugh in the running back. So I think it's going to be tough. It's going to be interesting. I can't wait to watch Belichick on Saturdays. I mean they open up the season. Colin, you know that that week before the NFL season starts now that training camps a little slower in the preseason. They only play three games. They open up on Monday Night Football get it to themselves against TCU September 1st. How awesome is that going to be?

[Rick Bucher]

I mean, you look at the schedule now at UFC at UCF and Clemson, back to back, those are losable games. Boy, it's. But it looks like an academic standing. It's like a lot of academic powers. I've got Stanford, Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Virginia, Cal, not known for football prowess.

[John Middlekauff]

North Carolina playing at Cal at, you know, 7 o' clock at night. It's gonna look a little different on television. But last but not least, how about the New York Football Giants? They've revamped their quarterback room this offseason. They brought in your guy, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, and they traded back into the first round to get Jackson Dart, former USC quarterback. Despite the expectation that Russ will start, many NFL insiders believe that it's just a matter of when, not if, the dart starts. And Daniel Jeremiah, my guy, predicting it will happen by week seven. Week seven, it might be like week three. I mean, the pressure's on. There's a lot of people paying attention to this.

[Rick Bucher]

Were you, as a former NFL scout, were you a Jackson Dart believer?

[John Middlekauff]

I like taking guys with that type physical characteristics, have no problem doing it in the mid to late 20s. But when you break down some of his production, threw a lot of touchdowns against random teams, struggled a little bit against the better teams. Physically gifted guy. You go back, remember when he was at usc, you could see the physical characteristics. Won a lot of games from playing for Lane. A little different animal. They're going from Ole Miss to New York City. Right.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, I also think Day ball and Joe Shane are on the hot seat big time. And if you look at their, I mean, John, look at this schedule. Just, just, just say the quarterbacks to our audience listening on radio. We got, they open up at Jaden Daniels, Bennett, Dak, Prescott, Mahomes, Herbert. So my take is if you're 04 with Russ and those are better rosters, I week five at New Orleans, that may be a spot.

[John Middlekauff]

Well, here's the key. If you're day ball, right, you're clearly coaching for your job. Jackson Dart was your guy. We've seen some of those videos coming from the draft room. Brian Daboll really loved him. You don't need to win a lot of games, but if you show promise like you have something there, even if they only end up winning six, seven games, maybe you want to keep that cohesion together with an offensive head coach with a young quarterback. But it could get really weird really fast. I mean, Russell Wilson getting benched by the end of September. You know, James, James kind of like a uplifting, positive vibe in that room whether he plays or not. But the Russell thing, they were in a weird spot once. Rogers was clearly not coming there. So it's, I would probably bet against the situation playing out well.

[Rick Bucher]

I think there's a. I think you can make a real argument they're playing for the number one pick when you look at the schedule. Yeah, that's, that's a team could get.

[John Middlekauff]

Weird fast that division.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. John Middlekop with the news.

[John Middlekauff]

Well, that's the news and thanks for.

[Rick Bucher]

Stopping by the Herd lie News Shohei Ohtani did it again. And how good is sga? Next? Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.

[Alexi Lalas]

Pacific this July 4th celebrate freedom from spills, stains and overpriced furniture with Annabe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Annabe's pet friendly stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. Is a sofa that adapts to your Life. Now through July 4th, get up to 60% off site [e-mail] Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees. Every penny back. Declare independence from dirty outdated furniture. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Rick Bucher]

Summer is here and you can now get almost any anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game, so why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified the new Dell AI PC with Intel Core Ultra helps you fast forward through busy work like editing images, summarizing meeting notes and responding to Jim's long emails. Leaving more time for you. Time Get A new Dell AI PC starting at $749.99 at Dell.com AI PC.

[John Middlekauff]

Saturday, it's Baseball Night in America on Fox and two of the league's best face off as Kyle Tucker leads the Cubs against Jose Altuve and the Astros for the Phillies take on the Braves. Check low local listings for the game in your area. Saturday at 7 Eastern on Fox.

[Rick Bucher]

Time for another edition of Better Than Babe. Yes, Shohei Ohtani was at it again, doing things nobody else in Major League Baseball would even attempt yesterday. First inning Washington Nationals. Guess who's on the mound for the Dodgers? Here it is, Shohei Ohtani. Four times he threw a pitch at 98 miles an hour. He also threw one at 99. Two strikeouts, no hits, no runs. Shohei Ohtani starts the game as a pitcher. Then he leaves the mound and we go to Shohei Ohtani as a batter in the seventh inning on the 01 from Ludus. Ohtani hits a fair ball down the line. It's into the corner. Here comes Dalton rushing. Shohei Ohtani unloads the bases with a triple. Yeah, he's pretty good. Then he came up in the eighth inning. The game had now been broken open and with a man on, Shohei Ohtani comes to the plate. And this is what he does with regularity. Launches left center field. This ball is at the wall. Did echo off of a fan.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, no, that's a, that's a fan.

[Rick Bucher]

Sawed off of somebody's glove. Oh, no, dad Roberts afterward, he was considerably better today as far as the stuff, the life to the fastball, the command of his pitches and much better.

[Colin Cowherd]

So overall, really good outing.

[Rick Bucher]

Got a ball up a little bit with the triple and then the homer, the ball was up and you know, when he's going to the big part of the field, I think he's really, really good. And so today was, was good and hopefully it quiets the noise a little bit with the days that he pitches. Yeah, gets the knitting. Home run, bases clearing, triple. He's pretty good. Better than Babe once again. So it's interesting, I saw this stat this morning and you know, stats don't lie, but they confuse Jimmy Garoppolo has a career passer rating higher than Tom Brady. Okay. They can confuse Carmelo Anthony more career points than Tim Duncan. There's a lot of garbage points in basketball. So SGA is the fourth player, just the fourth, to an MVP scoring title and finals MVP in the same season. The others are Michael Jordan four times, Kareem and Shaq. So when I say Kareem, Shaq and Michael Jordan, you see power, you see unstoppable, you see vertical, dynamic basketball. When I say SGA, close your eyes, you see a 17 footer in the angle, potentially fouled and at the free throw line. That does not mean his achievements aren't great, but I don't think he's a great all time player. I think he's a very good player who manipulates defenders, has worked his butt off, is a tremendous offensive, skilled player. But there are movies like American Beauty, Crash and Shape of Water that won Oscars. If I say to you Silence of the Lamb, Godfather and Crash, one doesn't feel like it fits. They all won Oscars. And so when I say Magic or a Kareem or a Shaq, I've said this before, he got, he got traded early in his career, which just doesn't happen to iconic players. Nobody's trading Giannis early or Steph early. You know, it's so, it's very rare. That's not that he's not a very, very profoundly productive player. But you know, when you watch him, if his shot is off, he's not going to jump over you. He's not going to bully you. He sort of needs a whistle. And again, I like his maturity. I Like how he on certain nights elevates others. And I do think he gets to what they call his spot with regularity. It's hard to stay in front of him. No hand checks now. Been that way for a long time. It's just hard to stay in front of twitchy guards. So he deserves all the love. But we're talking about sga. I mean, I think he's, he's reasonable about it. You, you say, yeah, you've joined Michael, Shaq and Kareem. Here's his thoughts. We prioritize winning. We don't, we don't prioritize anything else in this game. We want to win, and we want to win on the highest level. And that looks like something new every night. Every opponent, every arena. And that's all we focused on this whole season. Sometimes it just doesn't go your way. And tonight could have been one of those nights, but we found a way. I'm so proud of this group. I wouldn't have rather done it with any other group in the world. Feels good to be a champion. 7th different champion in 7 years. They all count. But I mean, the ones we talk about are, you know, Pete Carroll's Trojans, that Joe Burrow, LSU team, Vince Young at Texas. There are certain teams that feel bigger. I, I've, I've, I've said this. The Heatles were such a flawed basketball team. They had no size. Joel Anthony, like six, eight and a half center. They didn't really have a true point. A lot of LeBron and D. Wade's games were duplicate skills. They were incredibly smart team. Flawed, but they felt big. The Heatles, John felt big. Duncan, Manu and Tony Parker, Shaq and Kobe, kd, Stephen, Clay. You were in the Bay Area at the time. There are champions that feel really big. This one doesn't necessarily feel that way.

[John Middlekauff]

I'd even say small markets. I grew up 20 minutes away from Arco arena where the Kings played. Remember when they lost the Lakers? Floody Weber, Mike Bibby, Doug Christie. I mean, they were a small market team.

[Rick Bucher]

Like OKC characters, personalities.

[John Middlekauff]

Rick Adelman was a coach. I mean, it was, it was a really big deal in the NBA. But yeah, things have changed a little bit. Deserving, cool for the city. Many times a city that doesn't have other sports teams, like Bucher said, it's a really big deal, but they resonate with a lot of people. I think we'd, we'd rather see Jokic, LeBron, Steph, some of those type of guys.

[Rick Bucher]

You know, it's going to be interesting because Kevin Durant to Houston does change things. He's exactly what they need. You know, you can, you can go back and forth on the trade. If Katie's healthy, Houston's going to win the trade. In the history of the NBA, Milwaukee back in like the mid-70s, traded at the time Lu Alcindor, Kareem Abdul Jabbar to the Lakers. They got a haul. They got multiple players and picks and Milwaukee was relevant most of my childhood in the 70s and 80s, you know, but they didn't win titles. And so generally, wherever the best player goes, Houston, they win the trade. American Public University is the number one provider of education to our military and veterans in this country. They offer something truly unique. Special rates and grants for the entire family, making education affordable not just for those who serve, but also for their loved ones. If you have a military or veteran family member and are looking for affordable, high quality education, APU is the place for you. Visit Apu Apus Edu Military to learn more. That's Apu Apus Edu Military Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.comleaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No? A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's Soda. One lime. Lot of ice. Refreshing, easy summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an I Heart podcast.