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- [00:00]
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- [01:41]
Colin Cowherd
Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network.
- [01:44]
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- [02:12]
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- [02:47]
Capital One Representative
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to three EAs to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
- [03:07]
Colin Cowherd
Now, let's get this party started.
- [03:09]
Producer/Announcer
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
- [03:13]
Colin Cowherd
All right, here we go. It's a Monday. It's our number two. Live in Los Angeles, it's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mac, Bill Simmons in five minutes. Founder, CEO of the Ringer podcast legend.
- [03:30]
Guest/Co-host
You've known him a while, huh?
- [03:32]
Colin Cowherd
I have.
- [03:32]
Guest/Co-host
I haven't seen that guy. Must have been like 10 years. I went up to him at a Super bowl party and he was like, stun.
- [03:37]
Bill Simmons
This one.
- [03:38]
Guest/Co-host
I was with the big lead, you know, and he was, like, stunned, and he's, oh, the big lead.
- [03:42]
Colin Cowherd
And we started talking.
- [03:43]
Guest/Co-host
He's actually a pretty nice guy.
- [03:45]
Colin Cowherd
I saw him. I see him at wrestling stuff or UFC with his son.
- [03:49]
Guest/Co-host
Are you going to wrestling a lot these days?
- [03:51]
Colin Cowherd
I've been to it. I went to a WrestleMania at the SoFi, and it was. My son had the best time. I've never seen my son laugh that much. He loved it. We sat right in front of Simmons and his son, and I told my son, I said, it's like theater. It's like Broadway. Lean into it. So my son is booing, you know, you're a jerk. And then, you know, the wrestling. I've been to two of them. I've been to a WrestleMania and then I've just been to another event. They're fun. What can I say? They're they. I know. I used to call those fans booger readers, but, you know, some are. All right, it's Monday. Colin, right? Colin. Wrong. Here we go.
- [04:25]
Producer/Announcer
Where Colin was right.
- [04:26]
Colin Cowherd
Well, well, well, well. J. Mac only has 10 teams left. I've got 15 of 16 teams left. For the television audience, this is. The staff can vouch for me. This is my bracket. Last week, J. Mac and I went toe to toe. We gave our brackets in, and I'm only missing one team. Rick Patino did me wrong but good so far. I'm probably going to pay a dear price for not having Duke win at all, but I think Duke will have their hands full.
- [05:00]
Producer/Announcer
I'll leave it at that where Colin was right.
- [05:02]
Colin Cowherd
I've said the Dodgers being villains. Great for baseball. I just saw the ratings for the games in Japan. 25 million viewers across all platforms. Most watched baseball game ever in Japan. The second game almost got as many against the Cubs. Folks outside of the NFL, sports needs villains. It's good when the Celtics win, it's good when the Lakers win. The Yankees and Dodgers merchandise is off the chain. By the way, those games with the viewers were starting at 3:00am Pacific Time and still did really good numbers.
- [05:40]
Producer/Announcer
Where Colin was wrong well, I have.
- [05:42]
Colin Cowherd
A little feud with John Calipari, but he beat Bill Self in round one and Rick Pitino in round two and he deserves credit because this team's had injuries all year. They were bad to start the season. Only finished 8 and 10 in the SEC. But Calipari deserves credit. He is the only coach ever to take four different schools. Only second coach ever. Four different schools this week. 16.
- [06:05]
Producer/Announcer
Where Colin was right I said when.
- [06:08]
Colin Cowherd
The US Men's Soccer hired Mauricio Pochettino that if they ever lost they'd blame the coach. Well, we just got shut out by Panama and lost to Canada in the Nations League games. It's our worst finish in a long time and I've said we overvalue our players. We think it doesn't matter who the coach is. Jurgen Klinsman, Steve Bruce arena, it doesn't matter. The coach always takes the heat and my knock has been we have some good players but last World cup were way too young, probably still too young to finish as a top four to eight team. But once again we get a new coach after driving one out and it's the same result. We don't have the intensity in big games like we should.
- [07:01]
Producer/Announcer
Where Colin was right.
- [07:02]
Colin Cowherd
Brock Purdy reportedly wants Dak money. I laugh at all these people telling me he's going to take a pay cut. Team friendly deal. No. Even though he was 1 and 6 against playoff teams last year with more interceptions than touchdowns and had his second troubling injury, he views himself as great. He's been gassed up because he's a seventh round pick. He's never made any money. So he is going to go and play hardball. I've said it. I think Aaron Rodgers privately is talking to the Niners. I could be wrong on this. He may be. If I'm Aaron Rodgers, I don't sign. I sit on the sidelines and wait and watch what's happening with the Niners.
- [07:42]
Producer/Announcer
Where Colin was wrong.
- [07:45]
Colin Cowherd
I had St. John's and Rick Pitino in the final four. Listen, I knew they weren't a great shooting team, but a lot of college teams aren't great shooting teams. This is not the NBA. They were awful offensively and here's Pitino after the loss.
- [07:59]
Bill Simmons
We thought we were championship driven in our minds, but I've been disappointed before with this. You hate to see us play like that. I don't mind going out with a loss. I just hate to see us play that way offensively and got to live with it. You put a lot of time and effort. The coaches did. It's just a bit of pill to swallow.
- [08:23]
Colin Cowherd
Where Collin was right, the SEC has seven teams in the Sweet 16. Florida, Auburn and Tennessee all look good enough to win. Ole Miss rolled number three seed Iowa State. Bama is winning too. I went almost all chalk with SEC teams. I had Arkansas losing to St. John's but in the end said it in January when I watched the sec, I said it two different times on this show. Are you guys watching college basketball? Because it looks like SEC football about five years ago. They just look bigger, longer, faster and more skilled than every other conference.
- [09:01]
Producer/Announcer
Where Colin was right.
- [09:02]
Colin Cowherd
Najee Harris said it out loud. The Steelers don't have any identity on offense. He said. I go to the defensive guys and talk to them, but they wouldn't be too much. They couldn't tell me about the offensive line. This is what we've said. It is so crystal clear that as the NFL pivoted to offense, they led the NFL in defensive spending again. And they are an antiquated offensive culture. That's why I think Najee Harris is one of the great pickups of the off season. Colin, right? Colin wrong. Phil Simmons, you know him, The Ringer CEO and founder, cultural critic. The Bill Simmons podcast at Bill. He's a very busy guy, so I don't get him very often, but he's got a cool looking. Usually I see you and Rosello doing your thing, so I have not. I'm starting this week. The staff is all caught up. They're singing the praises of your Matt.
- [09:54]
Bill Simmons
You're not gonna watch it. Come on.
- [09:56]
Colin Cowherd
No, I am. I will, I will. I do. I travel a lot. I watch. I'll watch every episode. First one's Koozie, then Russell. Then it's the Celtics I grew up with, which was 6, 8. Dave Cowan's @ center and Havel. That's what I grew up with. Then we're going to the one that's really fascinating Birds. I'm going to ask you this Question to start when you come up with an idea like this, the day the light goes on, the epiphany to, to the series starts because Hollywood everything's molasses, everything slow motion. How long is the process from light bulb to show us airing?
- [10:30]
Bill Simmons
Well, first of all, it's an honor to follow a Naji Harris segment. I was really hoping that would happen in mid March. I know the world's talking about Naji right now, so it's great to be here. That it started probably 2020 and it just takes so long to finish deals and it takes so long to find a director and find the behind the scenes team that this was probably a four year process. Plus we're making nine episodes, nine hours of content and you know, looking back, it feels like a million years ago when we started and it was really hard to do because you're telling, you know, it's one of the most famous franchises in any sport. It intersects with the city of Boston in all these ways and the NBA in America. So it was a pretty ambitious thing. But I feel good about what we pulled off.
- [11:17]
Colin Cowherd
Well, you've also, because of the tragedy to Len Bias, there was also another run that could have been and wasn't. You guys could have had your next. That's right. So you, you could have had a pre Larry Bird Larry and you didn't. So that's something I've always thought about. Boston is, you know the Lakers, you know, with, with, with Kobe and Gasol. You could have had another one there. So this is a franchise that could have more. They've had some bad fate. When you as a Celtic fan look at all the teams, is there one that to you is closest to your heart?
- [11:53]
Bill Simmons
I mean the Celtics because we, we had season tickets. My dad got a ticket in the 73, 74 season, used to carry me in and then we eventually got two in the late 70s. So I went to the most Celtic games. So I, I obviously that's that personally just being there, being in the building for some of the best and the worst stuff I think matters the most. I think what's interesting about the team as a whole is, you know, they mattered the most. They were the most successful franchise in the world for the first 40 years really until, until Bias died and then it just dipped and there was this slow process where you're hanging on to the old memories, you're hoping it's going to work out and then eventually you just become another NBA team. The Garden goes down in 95. They just have this absolute drought where they're not relevant really for nine solid years until the 2002 team. So it's this, it's this once powerful institution that completely falls apart and then eventually resurrects starting with the KG trade. So that part made it really compelling as a story too. It's. It's nine episodes. But you know, once we get into the, the 90s and the 2000s, it gets. Gets pretty dark. A lot of stuff has happened to this team. So that, that made it great from a storytelling standpoint.
- [13:11]
Colin Cowherd
You know, it's. It's a different world. It used to be that all the NBA guys were fighting for a smaller piece and so Michael Jordan really did hate the Pistons and everybody. You know, there was real animosity. Now Bird and Magic didn't like each other initially, but over the course of time they had some respect for each other. But it's interesting. It's a more collaborative basketball world. A you guys all play together. And I've said this about Jayson Tatum. He is a product of what basketball is today. It's not high school rivalries and college rivalries. It's a you basketball. You may not even go to college by the time you get into the NBA. All help each other with charities, your friends and so we can criticize Tatum, but he is a product of this generational basketball players. LeBron doesn't have any enemies. He's never gotten into a fight. They all get paid. So that. So I guess my point is you can't really criticize Tatum when he doesn't have, quote, the instinct. That's what basketball players are today. Is that fair?
- [14:14]
Bill Simmons
Well, I mean it's funny if you watch the Celtics season this year, they, they've definitely butted heads with a few teams, including the Lakers. I think there was more crap talk during that last Lakers Celtic game than probably the last five years of it. Listen, Colin, Celtics nation is very aware of your Tatum takes. They've. We've heard. We. Everybody gets super defensive about him because the guy's having an incredible season. First of all, I won the title last year.
- [14:40]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [14:42]
Bill Simmons
This year he's the third best guy in the league. He plays all five positions. Yesterday against Portland he was playing point center with four shooters. He can guard everybody. He's the best rebounder on the team. I think as a decision maker and just as an all around player. This is the best he's ever looked by far. And he's the biggest reason they have a chance to, to win the title again. I think last year you could Definitely make the case. It was 1A and 1B with him and Jaylen Brown. And they were, they had a great, in a good way, a seesaw thing where they would lift each other up if one guy was down. This year, it's been Tatum season. He's the best guy in the team. And other than SGA and Jokic, he's been the most day to day impactful guy in the league. And he's really durable, which I think.
- [15:24]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [15:24]
Bill Simmons
You know, both of us have criticized NBA players for. You play 65 games and you call it a season and you take like little sabbaticals or you leave or you nurse injuries. Tatum's out there all the time, and I think what he has turned into over the last couple years has exceeded any expectation I ever could have had. You. You're basically hoping he could be a poor man's Durant when they drafted him, and now you're talking about somebody that has a chance to be one of the four or five best Celtics ever.
- [15:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And I also think unlike Durant, he's not a wanderer. Like, I could see him playing for this team forever and then, I mean, he's just. That's not his personal question. I've said this before. There. Look. All basketball players enter every night with an empty canvas. They're all artists. More than any other sport, basketball players are artists. They spill paint, they have bad nights. Steph Curry has horrible shooting nights. The difference is LeBron is more Bono or Jay Z, where he's a businessman and. And KD is more Pearl Jam. I'm going to sue ticketmaster. Tatum's more LeBron. He's happy, he's content, he's community. It's about business and basketball. So I, I could see him staying forever and I think that's good for the Celtics. That's just kind of my.
- [16:34]
Bill Simmons
That's.
- [16:34]
Colin Cowherd
He's more LeBron than, than Durant. Personality wise.
- [16:38]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things our, our documentary is about. For whatever reason, this franchise, the history of the guys who played for it and the things that have happened and the banners and all the ups and downs and Red our back and people who are dead. Russell Red our back, Tommy Hansen, everybody's basically gone except Koozie and Satch Sanders. But I think the newer guys, when they come in, they really feel that there's something different about the history, the way the generations interact. I think in Tatum's case, some of that circumstance, like he ended up on the best possible team for him with A city that absolutely loves him. I. I don't know if the Durant stuff is totally fair because to me, Durant is just a series and I know I'm always a Durant defender.
- [17:22]
Colin Cowherd
I love him as a player, but I think it's.
- [17:25]
Bill Simmons
I think it's a series of sliding doors with him. You could argue if they never leave Seattle and that team is still there with. With Westbrook and maybe Harden and Ibaka and an owner actually cared about the franchise and kept them in Seattle, which is, you know, one of the most loaded from a money standpoint cities we have. Maybe he's still there. Maybe he never leaves. Maybe he becomes. With Tatum's going to be in Boston. So I think you need luck with this stuff. LeBron didn't have luck in Cleveland because they were always trying to catch up with him in the 2000s. They're always trying to make the team as good as possible, as fast as possible and sign free agents and make these big trades and just constantly try to chase a title before they were really ready. And eventually he realized I, I can't win with this current setup. And he jumps to Miami. Whether you agree with that or not, that was the thinking. I think with Tatum, he's in a great situation all the way through his 20s and. And that's why you stay.
- [18:22]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. No, it's like quarterbacks. Mahomes would win, but he wouldn't win as much without Read and Vetch and the hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, it's where you land, at least in the NFL feels like for quarterbacks, about 80% of it. I want to ask you about this. So years ago I coined this. I was very proud of myself. I said, I like analytics. I'm not anti analytics, but I like man analytics. Is that in the end?
- [18:44]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [18:45]
Colin Cowherd
I need a stop in a bucket. I want a man. I want an alpha. I don't care about. I think a lot of the analytics in the NBA are great for the regular season, but postseason basketball is circumstantial. It's possession basketball. Make a stop. Where are you on analytics again? I'm forum. But playoff basketball, it's. It's an alpha sport. That's why I don't trust OKC for another year. It's why I didn't trust Cleveland last year and I do more this year. The young guys are now more about men. Where are you on basketball? Analytics.
- [19:17]
Bill Simmons
I just think everybody has them now. We hit a point with baseball when there was an edge, like that's what Moneyball is about.
- [19:23]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [19:24]
Bill Simmons
And especially the Moneyball movie, which is. Joan Hill's character is a fictional person of nine different things. And eventually everyone had the analytics. And then in baseball, then it moved to defense, and then it moved to, like, you know, some of the health stuff. And it just kept trying to evolve. I think in basketball, they're all looking at the same stuff. It's better to shoot threes than twos. You want interchangeable athletes. I think teams like OKC in Boston have really set the trend for if we just have long guys everywhere who can shoot and they're interchangeable, and that's what we're doing for four quarters. That's the biggest advantage you can have. I went to OKC Clippers last night. They were missing Jalen Williams and Chad Holmgren. It didn't matter. They still won.
- [20:08]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [20:08]
Bill Simmons
And they were. And they had defense. They could switch on every possession on offense. Even though sga, he couldn't buy a basket the whole night. But they had just guys sending picks for him constantly. He's creating stuff for everybody. And they have a real identity. And I think the Celtics do too. The Celtics. If you play minutes for the Celtics, you have to be able to shoot. That's it.
- [20:28]
Colin Cowherd
Yep.
- [20:28]
Bill Simmons
So I think from an analytics standpoint, the analytics are more about identity than player to player. It's like, what are you trying to be? I think the Lakers are struggling with that right now. I went to the Bulls game Saturday night, by the way, Colin, you live in la. You realize you could come to some of these basketball games.
- [20:45]
Colin Cowherd
I was invited by a season ticket holder.
- [20:46]
Bill Simmons
We don't really see you in the arena studying the action. But. But I went to that Bulls Laker game and the Bulls were just like, we're running this whole time.
- [20:55]
Colin Cowherd
Yep.
- [20:55]
Bill Simmons
We're. We're gonna run run down your throats and you're gonna die by the third quarter, which the Lakers did. And you see that. And that's a team that their identity. Because that Luca trade, they're trying to patch it together on the fly. I want identities in the playoffs. And to me, that's more important than analytics. I think Cleveland is. Is as close to having one as possible. But you saw last week, Kawhi killed him, Kevin Durant killed them. What's Tatum going to do against them when you see these big scoring forwards are able to get whatever they want against them. So. Yeah. So I. Do you buy that, though? I'm more of an identity guy than an analytics guy.
- [21:32]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. I think. I think there are a lot of similarities in sports, what are you. Pitching's all. I mean, baseball is all about pitching. I got better pitching. I win the series. I mean, even Shohei. Oh, time can have a badge. That's all it's about. It's about. But in basketball and football, what are you. Because I think in crisis, it's just like. It's just like, as a parent or as a business, oh, we've got crisis. Everybody in the building has to know, what do we lean on? Where do we go? It's easy when you're playing bad teams. When the Cavs are playing the Celtics, I think the Celtics win because I think they have a greater sense of identity. Even though the Cavs can be more efficient, I think there are times you can argue that they've had better games against Boston. I think Boston has a better sense of what they are in. A tie game at 99 with 230 left, and that's why they'll win. I got to ask you this. Well, wait.
- [22:19]
Bill Simmons
Our friend Marcel and I always talk about this. The difference between regular season basketball and playoff basketball. Because I think a regular season team can have a different kind of success than a playoff team. If you. You go to the playoffs and you're only doing one thing. And that can work if you only see a team once. But when you see them for two weeks, like, I think this could be a real problem for the Knicks. The Knicks are so Jalen Brunson centric that we're gonna get to the playoffs, and you just see that over and over again for two weeks. You can get used to it. The Celtics with Luca in the finals last year, same thing. They just. They got used to how Dallas is playing, and they. They. You know, as the series went along, it was great for them. So I. I think the ability to kind of change Personas, which I think OKC has. I think Boston has. I think Cleveland potentially has. That's the number one thing you want.
- [23:06]
Colin Cowherd
In the playoffs as a Celtic guy in. The show, by the way, is called Celtic City. Episode four, Great Hope airs tonight. And that's the arrival of Larry Bird, which is. Yes, again. Again, that's in my wheelhouse. You know, I remember I watched the Michigan State when it was Magic and Greg Kelser and it was the Sycamores from Indiana. So that's. That's right in my wheelhouse. The guy that just turned 60. So is there something about Larry? Give me just a taste, because we all know the Larry Bird story and give me a little aside or a little. A little thought on Larry Bird that don't give away too much, but that maybe you didn't even know and then you kind of found out.
- [23:49]
Bill Simmons
You know, you always see this stuff about when the guys were at their apexes, when they're at their best, especially in documentaries. I've certainly been involved in a few of them. I think it's a really interesting piece of it is when the guy is banged up and past their prime and holding on and the thing that still makes them great or made them great once upon a time, they can still kind of go back and grab it every once in a while. And that's like. There's basically three straight Bird era episodes coming. And that last episode is about how do you stay great when your body's starting to break down? What does that mean? When do you know when it's time to walk away? And I think that's the part that I think people don't remember. Now with. With Bird, Magic all of a sudden was gone, right? He had the HIV diagnosis and that was it. He retired. We never saw him hit that stage. Jordan left at the absolute peak and then came back and went through it with the Wizards for those last two years. And if you remember, those were really interesting wizard seasons for him. Right. His knees were banged up. He was doing it on a lot of memory and was still awesome. So I think with Bird and sometimes it goes terrible, you know, like. And especially you see it in football. You've seen with Aaron Rodgers right now the last couple years, right? Just awful. Like, it couldn't. The ending couldn't be worse. I think with the Bird one, he's. He's got this 30 pound back brace and he's still able to like kick butt against the best guys in the league during like one of the hardest eras we've ever had for basketball. So I think that part. I think people are going to be surprised how much they forgot about that section.
- [25:22]
Colin Cowherd
Okay. It's called Celtic City. It's supposed to be great. I will watch it. I watch everything. By the way, I just saw.
- [25:28]
Bill Simmons
I don't believe you.
- [25:29]
Colin Cowherd
No, no, I absolutely watch. I got. I'll bet you anything I'll. I'm going to start watching it tonight. I will watch it.
- [25:35]
American Express Representative
All right.
- [25:35]
Colin Cowherd
Okay.
- [25:36]
Bill Simmons
I would appreciate that. We know you're not going to basketball games in la, so you have more time.
- [25:40]
Colin Cowherd
I'm a Bull season ticket holder. I've seen Tatum play live four times. I am.
- [25:44]
Bill Simmons
Nice. The Bulls are looking good.
- [25:46]
Colin Cowherd
Well, if they get Cooper, they'll be really good.
- [25:48]
Bill Simmons
A decade of playing appearances for the Bulls. They're. That's it. They're just. They live in the playing. That's all they want. No luxury tax play in and they're happy.
- [25:56]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, so I'm gonna. One football, take one. I think we both have Maggie Harris. No, no, that's. I'm going to save the good stuff for later. One Aaron Rodgers take. And I think you and I are, are kind of agree on this, is that there's two ways you can be a quarterback. A great quarterback, you can be Brady, which is great, and low maintenance. Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, or you can be great and there is maintenance. Cam, Big Ben, Aaron, that group, it never ends well. What it. My take is Aaron will probably go Steelers, but deep down he's. He paused because he wanted to go to the Vikings. And I believe he wants Brock purdy to demand 60 million. I think he wants to go play for the Niners because he knows the Steelers don't know offense. That's. And I'm not a conspiracy theory guy. That's my conspiracy is deep down he wants to go to the bay with Shanahan. What is your take on this circus that's become Aaron over the last couple years, his fall to the leagues or where you land on it?
- [27:00]
Bill Simmons
Well, he was washed up last year as a quarterback. I mean, that's, that's a crucial piece of this. He was terrible. He was good. If he had protection when he didn't have protection as one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. I think he likes when people are talking about him. I could see him sticking around and being kind of in the back pocket for if a situation goes wrong with a quarterback or if somebody gets hurt and maybe he'll not. He won't officially retire and he'll wait and he'll wait and he'll wait and see what happens. I honestly think Brady, even after Brady retired from the Bucks, I think there was a world for the next two years where he would have come back if something had happened to a qbm, one of the best teams. I think it's really hard for these guys to let go. But I mean my, my big picture take on this and it ties in with LeBron and Brady. I think those guys and how successful they. They have been. LeBron is late 30s, into his 40s, and then Brady all the way to 45. I think it's just completely ruined how we should be seeing the end of people's careers. We're expecting these people when they're 37, 38, 39 to just still be good. And guess what? It's not going to happen. Like LeBron and Brady are generational anomalies. And what's supposed to happen is you're supposed to hit your late 30s as a quarterback and you're supposed to be washed up. And that's just how it's supposed to go. And in basketball, same thing you're supposed to be. Paul George, 34, 35. Guess what? Athletically you're going to start slipping year after year after year because that's how it goes. And LeBron and Brady, because they are such maniacs and they spend 365 days a year getting their bodies ready and every decision they make was about still continuing to dominate. I don't think it's replicable and I think it's. I think it's going to cause more bad decisions like the Cousins contract, Rogers, you name it. Some of the basketball stuff that's coming, I just think those guys screwed it up for everybody else. As weird as that sounds.
- [28:56]
Colin Cowherd
One more take. Four years in a row I have picked a bad team to be good the next year. Washington last year in Denver, Rams the previous year, Minnesota. My pick is New England. I said between the money Gerard Mayo to Vrabel is. You're talking about a different level of coaching. I think Drake May is Herbert. I think they look alike. I think that their, their size, they move. Give me a real. Okay, forget. We. We know you think they'll be better, but I have to ask.
- [29:27]
Bill Simmons
No. I'm always realistic with my teams.
- [29:29]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, so I think there are nine.
- [29:31]
Bill Simmons
And I know you've. You and I have both done a good job over the years of identifying possible people. Like I went 275 in my over unders before the season last year. Like I, I'll never top that again. So I must feel like I'm gonna do badly this year because I did too well last year. But my picks were actually good. Whereas I saw your blazing five record. It was pretty bad. My condolences. I'm sorry.
- [29:53]
Colin Cowherd
It was awful.
- [29:53]
Bill Simmons
I just think, you know, obviously your priorities were out of whack and you just didn't care. We all look forward to you caring more this year and trying to re establish your dominance. But listen, the Patriots recipe is exactly the same as Washington last year. The Washington thing did not make sense. They were in Phillies division. They were in a really loaded nfc. They had all this turnover. Oh, how are they going to do this? But then you look at it, it's like Terrible coaching staff. All of a sudden. They had a good coaching staff. They all of a sudden had a good quarterback the year before. They didn't. They spent a bunch of money on free agents. They did well in the draft and they played an easy schedule. So we know what the recipe is. We look at it every year. I think the Pats, if they can nail the draft and they can figure out left tackle and at least one playmaker, I, I think when you consider how awful the coaching staff was last year, I was one of the worst coach teams I've ever had in any Boston sport. You couldn't even believe it week to week, how bad it was. So we have Drake, they get a couple blue chippers, easy schedule, they add around, and then you throw in Mike Vrabel, who I think everybody thinks is a top six or seven coach. It's reasonable to go from four wins to 10. Like we, we see it every year where I was like, oh, who saw this coming? We always see it coming. This happens every year. And it's always about a schedule and a coach and a qb.
- [31:13]
Colin Cowherd
All right, well, you know, he doesn't return my tax, so I get him about once every seven years. Very busy.
- [31:18]
Bill Simmons
That's baloney.
- [31:20]
Colin Cowherd
You're very busy. Don't get a lot of time with Bill.
- [31:23]
Bill Simmons
That's baloney. I'm always, I'm always down for a hang.
- [31:25]
Colin Cowherd
You could invite me to any like. Like, I haven't been to Intuit yet, but I'm always available if you want to invite me to something.
- [31:32]
Bill Simmons
See, this is what I'm talking about. Until it's the best basketball arena ever built and it's relatively close to where you live, and you're like, yeah, I don't know, maybe I'll go one of these times and see what. See, I could go to any game I want. I'll pass.
- [31:46]
Colin Cowherd
Couldn't you acknowledge I've at least moved into wwe? Respecting it? Now, that was a big bone of contention between us. It's no longer the I've been to two.
- [31:54]
Bill Simmons
Has the community accepted you, though?
- [31:57]
Colin Cowherd
No.
- [31:57]
Bill Simmons
You said some mean things way back when there was a booger eaters. You had that going. You looked down on people. You made people feel dumb about it. Now you're back.
- [32:08]
Colin Cowherd
I don't know if I'm back. I'm just, you know, I'm. I'm more willing to accept that it is just what it is. It's theater. It's fun. Just lean into it and have fun. I was, you know, it wasn't Well.
- [32:17]
Bill Simmons
I was trying to tell you forever. Look at this. Two guys who used to work for the worldwide leader still doing well. Funny how that happens, huh? Everyone says, oh, you can't leave there. Oh, no, can't leave the worldwide leader.
- [32:32]
Colin Cowherd
Whole life's gonna fall apart.
- [32:34]
Bill Simmons
Guess what? We're fine.
- [32:35]
Colin Cowherd
We've done okay. We've done okay. Okay. It's called Celtic City, episode four tonight. Great hope, period. This is the Larry Bird stuff. So for if you're in your 20s or 30s, you'll remember this stuff. This will be the episode. Is this the one you're proudest of? Is this, Is this the. Is this. I mean, they're all good, obviously. The staff's obviously great. I went and looked up the people working on. Is this one of these? You're really the hit episode.
- [33:02]
Bill Simmons
I, I honestly, I'm proud of all of them. I think this is. This gets fun because this is the first stretch of. Of episodes where everybody we're interviewing is actually still alive.
- [33:12]
Colin Cowherd
That helps.
- [33:13]
Bill Simmons
So, you know, because we're going way, way back to the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and sadly, a lot of those people are now gone. So this was. It was nice to get, you know, some. Some people who are still around talking about things that they can actually remember. So, yeah, it's. I. I'm really proud of it. And the thing about tonight is Boston versus Philly was the best Boston rivalry of, Of. Of my childhood. And. And beating the Sixers mattered as much as anything except the Yankees and Canadians, I would say.
- [33:45]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I remember.
- [33:46]
Bill Simmons
So, you know, it's. I had never really seen that captured in the right way. So we, we tried to do it in this episode.
- [33:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Yeah, great. Sixer teams with Steve Mix and Caldwell Jones and Andrew Tony and mo Cheeks and Dr. J. George McGinnis. People, I always say this. There may not have been a dynasty in the 70s and early 80s until the Celtics Lakers arrived. 70s NBA basketball was fantastic. It was great.
- [34:11]
Bill Simmons
It was great. Rick Berry was super weird Bird.
- [34:15]
Colin Cowherd
Rick Barry was pre bird bird, grumpy, great shooter forward who didn't get along with some people, but it was a different time. But he was Pre bird bird, 6, 8, guy that could shoot.
- [34:24]
Bill Simmons
Right? And there was a lot of mystique for people like us back then because none of the games were ever on.
- [34:29]
Colin Cowherd
That's right. That's right.
- [34:30]
Bill Simmons
So you followed the league through the basketball handbooks and basketball basketball cards and Sports Illustrated and newspapers, and every once in a while there would be a game on. But, like going to games In Boston, the 70s, David Thompson and maybe came once, twice a year, you know, George Gervin, these guys, if you didn't go the one time they were in town, you never saw them again. And now, now everything's so available. Now you can follow the NBA and you don't even need to go to games or watch games. You can follow it on social media and, you know, on, on Twitter. So I, I'm a nostalgic for that era too, because it really, you really had to care and you really had to follow what was going on.
- [35:08]
Colin Cowherd
I was the only kid in the neighborhood that collected NBA cards and not baseball cards. So, you know, I can, I go back to Elmore Smith, Lakers center number three. I go way back. Bill Simmons, CEO, the ringer and the founder as well. Celtic City episode 4 tonight great hope periods. The Larry Bird issue. It airs tonight on Max. New episode focuses on the arrival of Larry Bird. That is much watch as always. You know, I appreciate when you stop by. You're a busy guy. I appreciate it.
- [35:36]
Bill Simmons
I appreciate it too. And I don't come in because you do the desk that's higher than the guest chair. And I don't appreciate the power play by you. So I'd rather do it on Zoom. But great to see you.
- [35:44]
Colin Cowherd
Totally get it. All right. Good stuff. Bill Simmons, that was a long interview for us. We don't do that very often, but there's a lot of stuff to cover. He's obviously an interesting cat and I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, think about that. They had that absolutely awful Len Bias tragedy. That could have been another, you know, he was out of Maryland. If you didn't see Len Bias playing college number 34, there was just nothing like it. He was a little Dominique Wilkins, little David Thompson. Just wildly. If I could compare him to a football player, it would be Adrian Peterson. Like just bigger, stronger than other players of his generation. Just didn't look the same or play the same. The tragedy and his early death. Or they could have had another long run. We all need routines that bring us calm in a chaotic world. For millions of Americans arming their Simplisafe home security systems, the moment of peace. Go to simplisafecollen.com 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan. There is no safe like simply safe. Thanks to Bill Simmons. Bruce Pearl earlier we take a break. Updates next with jmac live in LA.
- [36:47]
Producer/Announcer
The Hertz one more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, 7 days a week within the iHeartradio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.
- [36:57]
Capital One Representative
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Bill Simmons
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American Express Representative
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- [38:17]
Jonas Knox
This is Jonas Knox from Two Pros and a Cup of Joan. Today's podcast is brought to you by Ferguson Home. Whether you're a homeowner working on a remodel or a pro managing multiple projects, Ferguson Home is where great ideas become stunning spaces. It's designed for the way you want to shop. Explore the best selection of kitchen, bath and lighting products online, or visit a local Ferguson Home showroom and get one on one from an expert consultant. Go to FergusonHome.com to shop the latest styles from top brands like Kohler, or find a showroom location near you.
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Capital One Representative
All right, let's get into it. Virgin Voyages. This isn't just another cruise line. This is redefining what luxury travel means. First off, all in voyage pricing, over a thousand dollars in value, Wi fi, tips, entertainment, even dining at specialty restaurants. It's all included. No nickel and diming, no hidden fees. It's clear, simple and honestly how it should have always been done. And the cabins? Let's just say they're not your standard hotel on the water deal. They've got private terraces, virgin red hammocks, views of the open sea. It's a reset Button for your brain. Now here's what really sets them apart. No kids. That's right. Adults only. Everything. Food, entertainment, activities tailored to what you actually want. And the destinations you're looking at the Caribbean this winter. And for 2025, 2026, they're hitting places like North America, Iceland, the Mediterranean. It's top tier travel for people who demand the best. Virgin voyages isn't just a cruise. It's the future of adult vacations. Get on board, book now@virginvoyages.com or contact your travel advisor.
- [40:02]
Colin Cowherd
By the way, if you've not seen this, the Giants signed Jameis Winston to a two year deal and the Steelers are waiting on Aaron Rodgers. But it is amazing that we were talking about this. The reason the Celtics are so good is because they've had like basketball savants between Danny Age and Brad Stevens running the franchise. Where Dave Gettleman into Joe Shane has been just a mess for the Giants. Just think of the comedy of errors. Basically the New York Giants now are crossing their fingers that the Cleveland Browns don't take a quarterback. They've been reduced to praying the Cleveland Browns pass on Shador Sanders between the Joe Judge hire. 10 wins in two years. Disaster. He's now like working for Ole Miss as a senior analyst. He's apparently like mostly out of coaching the Daniel Jones reach for the number six pick. Daniel Jones had a losing record at Duke as a college quarterback. To the Daniel Jones extension to letting Saquon Barkley walk, to letting HBO sit in on their meetings with John Maurer and Joe Shane, it's just been, it has been an eight year mess. The New York Giants and you know they should almost consider the George Costanza move from Seinfeld. Just go against your initial instincts. Do the opposite of what you really think is smart. But this is what we've said this before is so much of the NFL and the NBA is the guys upstairs. Oklahoma City and the Celtics very good, very well run. Right. The Dallas Mavericks have made some great moves. They stole Kyrie, the kid from Duke they drafted great pick. Nico move Max, the other kid they sent to Philadelphia. It made some bad moves. So with the New York Giants though it's only gone in one direction. The traffic has all been toward poor judgment. And this is what you get to. I mean think about this. Three NFL teams in the state of New York, they're third Buffalo, Jets. Giants. Jets have better players. That is indisputable. That's where they are. The other thing we talked about, they never had a 13 loss season in the history of the franchise, 3 times 8 years is where they're at. All right, we take a break. Back with Herdline News.
- [42:07]
Producer/Announcer
Next, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [42:16]
Steve Covino
Hey, it's Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino Enriched Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe Noanrich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.
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American Express Representative
Count your way into a perfect night with AMEX Gold. One restaurant, two friends, three amazing dishes and four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants and US Supermarkets. That's the powerful backing of American express. Terms apply. CAP applies. Learn more@americanexpress.com with Amex.
- [43:28]
Capital One Representative
All right, let's get into it. Virgin Voyages. This isn't just another cruise line. This is redefining what luxury travel means. First off, all in voyage pricing over $1,000 in value, Wi Fi tips, entertainment, even dining at specialty restaurants. It's all included. No nickel and diming, no hidden fees. It's clear, simple and honestly, how it should have always been done. And the cabins? Let's just say they're not your standard hotel on the water deal. They've got private terraces, virgin red hammocks, views of the open sea. It's a reset button for your brain. Now, here's what really sets them apart. No kids. That's right. Adults only. Everything. Food, entertainment, activities tailored to what you actually want and the destinations you're looking at. The Caribbean this winter and for 2025, 2026, they're hitting places like North America, Iceland, the Mediterranean. It's top tier travel for people who demand the best. Virgin Voyages isn't just a cruise, it's the future of adult vacations. Get on board. Book now@virginvoyages.com or contact your travel advisor. Everybody loves a good MVP story and the story of Wasabi Technologies is one of the best. Wasabi is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company, becoming the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware. Wasabi has taken the lead in driving innovation in data storage, eliminating overhead where it matters to deliver you results you can count on and won't break the bank. In fact, Wasabi is up to 80% less than those other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi Another championship story. Check them out for free@wasabi.com Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Choosing the right credit card can be daunting. Among the countless credit card options, Apple Card stands apart. You get up to 3% daily cash back on purchases every day. That daily cash can automatically earn interest when you open a High Yield Savings account through Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on iPhone and see a credit limit offer in minutes.
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- [46:22]
Colin Cowherd
Remaining J Mac with the News no, no, no, no. Turn on the news.
- [46:28]
Producer/Announcer
This is the Herdline news.
- [46:31]
Guest/Co-host
Your favorite quarterback, Brock Purdy. Still no deal. We've been hearing negotiations. Negotiate? What is this, two months now? According to NFL Network's Mike Garofolo, saying Brock Purdy won't necessarily get Dak Prescott 60 million per year, but he'll come close to it somewhere in the high 50s. I know this puts a sour look on your face. John lynch has said we have big things coming our way. We had to clear some room for Brock Purdy. I don't know Kyle, where are you on this 50s speculative, you know, I.
- [47:02]
Colin Cowherd
Hear people saying all the time, oh, you know, with all the gambling money coming into the TV money, there's plenty of room for Brock Purdy. Okay, do you want a four year deal with a guy that was one in six against playoff team?
- [47:13]
Bill Simmons
No.
- [47:13]
Colin Cowherd
Here we go. Okay. Seems like he's going off one year's.
- [47:19]
Guest/Co-host
Worth of data when the team was.
- [47:21]
Colin Cowherd
The first injury ridden. Yeah, the first year when things didn't go as planned and he had a little chaos. That's truth serum in the NFL when maybe your left tackle is hurt and you know, maybe you don't have that second primary, you know, that number two receiver and maybe one of your linebackers, you have to actually win shootouts now and the schedule's a little harder and you're one in six against the good teams.
- [47:46]
Guest/Co-host
Interesting. Kind of like Patrick Mahomes when he doesn't offend an offensive line in the super bowl, he crumbles like a wad of paper.
- [47:52]
Colin Cowherd
Huh? He gets there kind of tough.
- [47:54]
Guest/Co-host
Gets to the super bowl, just folds like a folding table that I play cards on. Huh. Listen, I will defend Brock Purdy for a long time. I, I'll wait to see the contract. I'm not going to chime in with any hot takes on this one. Let's get to the next story. The Rams made a big move this offseason moving off Cooper cup and adding Devonte Adams on on a two year, 44 million dollar deal. Stafford and McVeigh get a healthier, more reliable weapon on the outside. Stafford loved the move, saying so happy to have him. He'll be a big addition to our team. Thanks for that penetrating insight. Matt Stafford. Devonte Adams will be a big addition.
- [48:27]
Colin Cowherd
To the team and they don't be surprised if they if they trade down in the first round. Do not be surprised. Get themselves a Texas wide receiver late in the first round. Rams would like to trade down.
- [48:39]
Guest/Co-host
Golden is nice. I like his game. Yep, he's fast.
- [48:43]
Colin Cowherd
They, they would like to trade down but it's not a very good draft.
- [48:46]
Guest/Co-host
Maybe he'll be what, 22 out? Well, thought that he would be right. The kid golden from Texas. Yeah, he's got two. Two out has been a disappointment. No way around it. Yeah, he's had a couple moments but overall disappointing final story. Colin, you'll love this. Caitlyn Clark, baby. Almost WNBA season. Well, how about this one? They just announced that Caitlin Clark's Indiana Fever will have 41 of 44 games nationally televised or streamed this season. Now the league has expanded from 36 games to 44. And the defending champion Liberty. Can you name anyone on the New York Liberty? I cannot. Maybe inscu's on that team.
- [49:23]
American Express Representative
I think.
- [49:23]
Guest/Co-host
No, no, maybe she's not. Anyways, they got 32 national games. The Fever have 41. The MVP from last year, Aja Wilson, 33.
- [49:32]
Colin Cowherd
If I was the WNBA, I would have considered a separate television package to a network on just Caitlyn Clark games.
- [49:39]
Guest/Co-host
I would have bought it. Dead dead serious. My kids will like if Caitlyn Clark's on, you know, India, like 4:30 on the west.
- [49:46]
Colin Cowherd
I would have had two packages. The WNBA package and then a separate, let's say 15 to 18 game Caitlin Clark package for, you know, it could be hbo, it could be Fox, it could be anybody. I would have sold a separate Caitlin Clark package.
- [50:00]
Guest/Co-host
It's almost like you're a business guy. I don't, I don't hate that at all. By the way, Angel Wilson's talking about sitting out for more money. Meanwhile, the Indiana Fever. Hey, we're putting every game on TV for Caitlin Clark. Everybody wants to watch her.
- [50:12]
Colin Cowherd
Well, they, the league wasn't ready for her last year. They just weren't prepared. She was prepared.
- [50:16]
Guest/Co-host
She's had a full off season now to rest.
- [50:18]
Colin Cowherd
No, no, no. She's going to be great. The league just didn't know what to do.
- [50:21]
Guest/Co-host
Get the MVP tickets in. Just bet them. Bet them to win the championship. It's fun. And then you get to watch all our games.
- [50:27]
Colin Cowherd
J Mac with the news.
- [50:28]
Producer/Announcer
Well, that's the news.
- [50:30]
Bill Simmons
And thanks for stopping by the herd.
- [50:32]
Colin Cowherd
It is amazing that Bruce Pearl came on an hour ago and we talked about this, about how like, college basketball felt like it was competing against the NBA for years. And I like Adam Silver, but it's like Adam. It's unbelievable marketing. If Cooper Flag's got national commercials now, what if he goes to the Bulls? It's very magic and Bird, like a great big brand guy goes right to a major market. Chicago's got some players they just, they need. They need the Flag guy. They need the guy. They need their Jason Tatum. So it's. Sometimes I don't. Don't pick fights with people. You don't need to. I listen, you don't have to, like, Trump like him or not. I don't really care. I don't get picking on Canada. I'm sorry. It's like Canada is like the greatest neighbor. We could have Putin as a neighbor. We have Canada, like the nicest most humble people in the world. They send their educated college kids from fine universities in Toronto and Montreal. McGill University. They send them down to America. They're taxpayers. They, they, they're just great employees. Why are we picking on Canada? Like, why are you picking on college basketball if you're in the NBA? Like, what, what is that about? I mean, I, I March Madness, free marketing, Duke, free marketing, the Big Ten, free marketing unc, Arizona, Gonzaga. It's like, just put your arms around him. I mean, this Cooper flag, if I, because I'm an NBA fan, I watch much more NBA than college basketball. I am rooting for Duke even though I don't have him winning my bracket and going to Chicago full season ticket holder. I just think it's good for the league. Then New York and Philly, Louisiana, San Francisco, you all got the stars in all the right places like baseball does right now.