Hour 3 - Al Harrington

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: Hour 3 - Al Harrington
Date: June 8, 2026
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Episode Overview

This hour of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" features an in-depth interview with former NBA player Al Harrington, exploring the unique culture of Madison Square Garden, the evolution of star players and coaches, and the dynamics of the current NBA Finals between the Knicks and Spurs. The episode also covers breaking college football news regarding Texas Tech quarterback Brendan Sorsby’s gambling suspension, and closes with reflections on second chances, sports maturity, and the NYC basketball experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Media, Agents, and NBA Access

• Colin discusses the influence of agents in NBA reporting (03:08):
  NBA media often serves at the behest of powerful agents, sometimes at the expense of objective reporting—especially for star players.

  “It feels a little bit like pandering to star players... sometimes the players don’t talk, but the agents will.” (03:08)

• On SGA (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander) criticism:

  • Social media serves as a sixth defender for stars, amplifying criticism, both fair and unfair.
  • Colin argues that the critique around SGA’s tendency to "flop" is legitimate and grounded in observable style, not manufactured controversy.

  “SGA flops a little too much. I think it’s all fair game. I don’t think anybody’s making anything up. We’re all watching the same stuff.” (06:36)

2. NBA Finals: Knicks vs. Spurs Analysis

Betting Angles and Game Predictions

• Colin and his co-host analyze Game 3 adjustments (07:14):
  The Knicks are favored, but both agree the Spurs could surprise, noting the historical volatility of NBA Finals games played at MSG.

  “Whenever you get these games between two really competitive teams and everybody’s on one side, it almost always goes the other way.” – Colin (07:52)

• Wemby’s Finals struggles:

  • The co-host describes Wemby’s unique Finals stat-line, noting both his talent and rookie mistakes.

  “Nobody has ever had a turnover, a foul and a missed game winning shot in the final 10 seconds of a game—in Finals history. Wemby had all of those.” (08:56)

3. College Football Gambling Controversy

• Texas Tech QB Brendan Sorsby's gambling suspension:

  • Sorsby is granted a temporary injunction to play, despite making 9,000 bets in college—no bets against his own team.
  • Huge debate arises on social media and in college football circles.

  “If you’re going to end the career of every 20-year-old kid that makes a mistake... what should we do?” – Colin (10:26)

  • Colin’s stance:

    • Advocates restraint and second chances, contrasting addiction to gambling with more dangerous and predatory behavior.
    • Emphasizes monitoring and rehabilitation over career-ending punishment.

    “Do people learn from their mistakes? I believe they do, hopefully. I believe there’s stories every day in America of people...” (13:51)

  • Societal consequences versus official punishment:

    • Even if the NCAA penalty is light, losing draft status/salary due to stigma is a real cost.

    “He’s gonna pay for it one way or another... there are some societal punishments that will be doled out.” (34:01)

4. Al Harrington Interview: Life in NYC, NBA Finals, and Star Evolution

Playing at Madison Square Garden

• What makes MSG special?

  “It’s something about just playing on Broadway, man... the way that the Garden is set up is like a stage... you gotta bring your A game or you’re going to hear about it.” – Al Harrington (20:42)

Karl-Anthony Towns’s Growth and the Knicks’ Maturity

• On KAT’s Playoff Surge:

  • Harrington praises KAT’s maturity and selflessness, crediting his acceptance of Jalen Brunson’s leadership and a versatile new role.

  “I just really look at the way that he’s matured in these playoffs... he’s really bought into the team concept. The biggest hurdle was just accepting that, this is Jalen Brunson’s team.” – Al (21:31)

• Comparing Young vs. Veteran Teams:

  • Young teams (like the Spurs) lack endgame composure; veteran Knicks are unshakable due to playoff scars.

  “With young teams... you would kind of doubt yourselves, just because we were young, we hadn’t been through enough at that point. And I think that’s what’s happening with the Spurs right now.” – Al (23:01)

The Mike Brown Coaching Effect

• Mike Brown’s career resurgence:
  Harrington details how playing for/with minds like Rick Carlisle and Steve Kerr shaped Brown. With the Knicks, Brown finally has the offensive resources and maturity to maximize his system.

  “With the Knicks, the problem was that we felt like Thibodeau just couldn’t get us over the hump on the offensive end... that’s why they brought Mike Brown in.” – Al (25:03)

Wemby’s Physicality: Flaw or Growing Pains?

• Discussing whether Wemby’s slight build limits his ceiling:

  • Harrington argues that “grown man strength” comes with age and that legendary big men like Kevin Durant, also skinny as rookies, developed resilience in time.

  “When you look at like his offseason last year, he went to the Shaolin Monks to get better, to look for a mental edge... Wait til he’s 25, oh my God, I don’t think anybody’s going to want to see him.” – Al (27:25)

• Colin adds:

  “You should stop doubting yourself. Mike Brown did lead the Cavs to the Finals once.” (28:52)

Mike Brown as a Player’s Coach

• Al reflects positively on Brown as a motivator and mentor—someone who builds confidence and fosters adaptation.

  “He was always motivational... pouring into these guys constantly is definitely the difference.” (29:01)

5. Mature Reflection on Sports Mistakes and Redemption

• Cowherd reiterates his philosophy: Emotional but nuanced takes on how to deal with young athletes facing discipline, drawing a line between serious, harmful crimes and self-destructive but non-malicious mistakes.

  “Ask yourself if you’re the bleeding heart—look at where there’s real victims beyond, you know, the perpetrator. Like, there’s real victims—assault, drunk driving... This is something he did which is now shameful, he’ll wear it forever... But what do we do with young people who make really big mistakes?” (30:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “SGA flops a little too much. I think it’s all fair game. I don’t think anybody’s making anything up. We’re all watching the same stuff.” – Colin (06:36)
• “Whenever you get these games between two really competitive teams and everybody’s on one side, it almost always goes the other way.” – Colin (07:52)
• “I just really look at the way that he’s matured... really bought into the team concept... The biggest hurdle was just accepting that, this is Jalen Brunson’s team.” – Al Harrington (21:31)
• “With young teams... we would kind of doubt ourselves... I think that’s what’s happening with the Spurs right now.” – Al Harrington (23:01)
• “He was always motivational... pouring into these guys constantly is definitely the difference.” – Al Harrington on Mike Brown (29:01)
• “Wait until he’s 25, oh my God, I don’t think anybody’s going to want to see him.” – Al Harrington on Wemby (27:25)
• “He’s gonna pay for it one way or another... there are some societal punishments that will be doled out.” – Colin (34:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• NBA Reporting & Agents’ Influence: 03:08–07:07
• SGA & Social Media Pressure: 04:51–06:36
• NBA Finals Game 3 Preview (Spurs vs. Knicks): 07:14–09:23
• Wemby’s Finals Struggles & Narrative: 08:35–09:23
• Brendan Sorsby Gambling Suspension Discussion: 09:24–14:54, revisited at 30:03–34:33
• Eric Bieniemy’s Chiefs Offense Fundamentals: 15:52–16:18
• Al Harrington Interview Begins (On MSG & NY): 19:59–20:42
• Karl-Anthony Towns Playoff Maturity: 21:04–21:31
• Young vs. Veteran NBA Teams: 22:27–23:01
• Mike Brown’s Coaching Journey & Knicks Impact: 24:28–26:32, 28:52–29:01
• Wemby’s Body Type & Future: 26:32–28:52
• Al on Mike Brown as a Player’s Coach: 29:01
• Final Thoughts on Student-Athlete Discipline & Mistakes: 30:03–34:33
• Knicks vs. Spurs: The Mental Edge: 37:20–39:33
• On Wemby’s Mindset & NYC Life: 38:34–39:33

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Tone & Style

Colin Cowherd blends sharp analysis and candor with empathy and occasional humor. Al Harrington’s wisdom comes through with warmth and humility, providing long-term perspective on NBA culture, personal development, and the business of sports.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode delivers a lively, multi-faceted sports conversation—equal parts strategic analysis, player psychology, and ethical debate. Colin and Al Harrington, together with co-hosts, unpack the mental toughness required in playoff basketball, the need for grace in dealing with young athletes’ mistakes, and the unique gravitational pull of the New York sports stage.

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Perfect for listeners seeking nuanced, real-talk sports discussion, both on and off the court.

Transcript

[Erin Andrews]

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[Erin Andrews]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern 9am to find your local station for the herd at foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. One of the things over the course of doing this for a living is, you know, sometimes the NBA, I've said this, at any given time, there's seven or eight, you know, agents in the NBA, maybe less than that, that have huge influence. And to curry favor with those agents, slash access because a lot of times the players don't talk, but the agents will. And so you want to be in good stead with the agents. So there's a lot of and you see this with some NFL breaking news reporting. You can tell when you look at some of the, you know, leading guys, you're like, oh, that's obviously from an agent. He's doing him a favor because nobod really cares about the third string corner. It's an agent saying, hey, I gave you this, you got to give me that. It's pretty transparent. But I have, I think through the years, GMs and coaches, sometimes it feels a little bit like pandering to star players. I get a young guy comes in out of college, he's 19, 20, I mean he can't drink in the hotel bar. Like I get it. But Sam Presti defending the criticism, I don't think it's that big a deal, but the criticism that SGA has dealt

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

with relative to Shay and the narrative on that, you know, he's playing against six people, he's got five defenders and the sixth defender is social media. And you know, that's a reality. And he's not going to be the last player that the machine decides to target. But no one's going to handle this gracefully because when they turn it on

[Colin Cowherd]

somebody else, they're not going to step

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

up there every night. And not acknowledge it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I don't. I think, first of all, a lot of players. Brunson's talked about this. LeBron has, you know, they just put the phone down, which I don't think that's hard to do. They just put the phone down in the post season. Secondly, I don't even understand why. I mean, maybe it's generational, why you're reading responses from fans anyway. Like, just out of that stuff, there's no good. I saw a story this weekend, over half the people on the Internet are on the phone. Internet are bots. Would you. You know, that's crazy to me that you would spend that much time on your phone. But, you know, I guess it's when you grow up with the phone and the devices, you're on them more. But I don't. I look at, you know, the criticism of sga, I think is warranted, which is, dude, you flop a little. I mean, it's not like we're making stuff up, you know, like when people criticize Lucas defense. Well, it's accurate. I mean, it'd be one thing if everybody was saying SGA is a bad guy. Nobody's saying that. If SGA was not a winner, you know, he'd be averaging 17 a game without the official. Nobody's saying that. What they're saying is, aesthetically, he's kind of manipulating. You know, Harden did a lot of that and the NBA stepped in. You know, the numbers don't lie. You know, Carmelo didn't play defense. Luka doesn't play defense. Austin Reaves isn't the same player in the postseason as he is the regular season. Shaq wasn't a good free throw shooter, and SGA flops a little too much. I think it's all fair game. I don't think anybody's making anything up. We're all watching the same stuff. I think he's respected. It's just kind of an irritating style. J. Mac with the news.

[Al Harrington]

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herdline news.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Another fun topic is game three tonight. Spurs, Knicks. I'm on the spurs money line. I said this before game two. They're going to win this game. The pressure on the Knicks. Colin at msg. The crowd is going to be too juiced up. They've got their first NBA Finals game in forever. I think this has spurs written all over it. I've got the spurs tonight. Who you got?

[Colin Cowherd]

Wow. It's funny because. Thinking whenever you get these moments, because the games the spurs have led by Double figures in both games.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

They also led, by the way, Colin, with two minutes left in both games.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. So what's the number again?

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

One and a half, two.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, the number's telling you. I, I honestly felt this morning, taking the train ride in. I'm like, whenever you get these games between two really competitive teams and everybody's on one side, it almost always goes the other way. I know it's hard to say it, but I just, I think you can get too hyped up sometimes. You're at home. I think it's going to be really close. I would, I would just say this. You're probably best served to keep betting the Knicks the entire series. I would not be shocked if San Antonio. I'm rooting for San Antonio tonight because let's, let's face it, the regular season we had a tanking epidemic. The playoffs, the east was pretty bad. A lot of sweeps. I think we need, I want to have an extended six, seven game series.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Yeah, Adam Silver needs this. I will just say, and we talked about it last week, Shaq got swept in his first finals in the NBA.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, he did okay. Yeah.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

He got swept by Olajuwon and LeBron at 22 got swept by the Spurs. So I don't want to hear this. Well, Wemby, you guys were wrong. He's overrated. Let's just stop. You know the goofballs are going to come out with their nonsense bashing Wemby. He's been good in this series. They just blew the end of the game twice now. Wembley in game two. Colin, Friday night, I saw this stat. Nobody has ever had a turnover, a foul and a missed game winning shot in the final 10 seconds of a game in I think finals history. Wemby had all of those. It was a disaster. He threw the pass off Castle's back, fouls Brunson and then misses like a 15 footer for the game. I mean, I don't know. I picked the Knicks in the series. I think they're going to be fine.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, next story.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Colin, this is just breaking this morning. This is huge in college football, okay? Brendan Soaresby, the quarterback who's going to be at Texas Tech, previously was at Indiana where he was gambling on games. He was granted a temporary injunction against the AA making him eligible to play this season. Now, as you can expect, there is massive outrage on the interwebs. Even respected voices. Daniel Jeremiah came out against this. And I will say some of the stuff does not look great. 9,000 bets were made 9,000, okay? We talk gambling here all the time. 9,000 bets is a lot for a college kid. He was not betting against his team, he was betting on his team. While at Indiana, he obviously was excellent. Last year at Cincinnati, he's projected as an early round, maybe first round quarterback. Colin, I know you have a lot of thoughts on this, but he's going to be suspended for the first two games, which are cupcakes. And then Texas Tech, which made the playoff last year, gets a superstar quarterback.

[Colin Cowherd]

Your thoughts? Well, if you're going to end the career of every 20 year old kid that makes a mistake, I mean, I, again, he's not a 16 year NFL veteran. You know, I just, maybe as I age and have kids, I just look at it and I think to myself, yeah, it's different, but what should we do? You know, Nick Saban always talked about this. So we give kids second and third opportunities sometimes who commit assault, who do terrible things and we're like, okay, you can't end somebody's life. You have to, you know, Nick Saban argued, you have to put your arms around him. And Saban, there's a famous player that went to Michigan State, did some bad things. Everybody wanted him to kick it off. He ended up being going, you know, creating a company. He's got amazing kids. His kids go to Ivy League schools. What are we going to do with 21 year olds and 22 year olds that make really big mistakes? Do you just, or do you throw them a life preserver and you're like, listen, we're going to monitor you. It's almost like, you know, it's a little bit of house arrest. Like we're going to monitor your phone, we're gonna monitor your Internet. But I don't want to bury people. People make mistakes. Again, this is not a 15 year NFL veteran. Legalized gambling is new in America. These, we're seeing these. He's not a professional yet, he's a college kid. So I, you know, I'm, you know, it's just funny what we're willing in life, you know, people that don't like gambling. Let's say you're a liberal. I think gambling is predatory, it is terrible. But you will defend people who do bad things to other people, right? You're like, well, this kid deserves this and this, he wasn't injuring anyone else. He emptied out his bank account and has been humiliated. And it is a scarlet, you know, letter he's going to wear the rest of his life. And my take is, what do we do? With young people make big, gigantic, awful, awful mistakes. You know, I, I just think, I look at the history of people. I think if you do not like gambling, you're like, this is the worst thing ever. And I'm like, I can give you about 10 things that are worse than this fabric of sports. This, he's not a professional. He didn't bet against, you know, this is not Pete Rose as an adult, as a manager. You know, this is a young kid.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Yeah. I mean, listen, you make a lot of good points though. The one big pushback I'll say is this does open a can of worms, Colin, for the gambling. Well, it shores me. It made 9,000 bets. I can't make 20.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is a ruling by a Texas judge.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Yep.

[Colin Cowherd]

California judge may not act like that.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Yep.

[Colin Cowherd]

Ohio judge. This is a Texas judge. So I, you know, as I've aged, I don't like to bury young people. They make mistakes. Mistakes, sometimes gigantic mistakes.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

I mean, listen, we. How many times in the last three weeks have there been NFL players arrested for assault and allegations? Like it's bad. People are doing really bad things. But like you said, these are young people who make mistakes. I'm happy that sources Sourceby's gonna be playing, you know. Hey, by the way, is college football taking a check from any of the gambling companies? I'm just curious.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I mean, if you're Texas Tech, you're like, we are going to monitor your phone. You're gonna have a, you're going to have a school issued phone and a school issued Internet. And again, you can work around it. But I'm saying is, do people learn from their mistakes? I believe they do, hopefully. I believe there's stories every day in America of people that, I mean, good God, you know, I mean like alcohol is addictive. There are people that literally just stop and they're like, oh, I'm just watching the really fun. Nikki Glaser is like, she's like, oh, I drank too much. And then I said, I'm ruining my life. And she's like, I'm not drinking again. Her career takes off and it's like, should we, I mean, are you going to bail on people who go through these rough stretches? I don't like to and sometimes I can be harsh. But I think in this instance, I don't think his mistake rises to the level of you're out of football forever,

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

so you're really plugged in on the college circuit. I'm going to guess that your phone is going to buzz with some, some reaction. To this because people are again, I don't want to say fake outrage but people, people are not thrilled in the college football world with these things.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think if you are just anti gambling then that is your position and I know a lot of people that you can have any opinion you want. Mine is what do we do with people who make huge mistakes under 25? I mean if you go look at men under 25 they, you know, they mature more slowly than women. Their brains don't fully brain development hits it's 24. That's why they talk about you probably shouldn't smoke a ton of dope when you're 16 years old. Like I mean just, I don't know. We can go on and on about it but I tend to be believe in second chances for people who make big mistakes largely with you.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

All right, let's wrap up with the Kansas City Chiefs. Colin and the hype is palpable. Eric b. Enemy, the O.C. he's back. He's got a lot of thoughts on how to rejuvenate this Chiefs offense which struggled. I'm going to stand down because I don't want Andy Reid to come after me again. But here is Eric Bienemi talking about getting back to the fundamentals.

[Al Harrington]

We gotta do a great job protecting the quarterback. We gotta keep that pocket integrity back's gotta be willing to step up in protection and be physical with protection. So I know all that sounds high schoolers but those are the little things that we're focusing on because if we can't do those things the right way, it don't matter who the hell we play. So we gotta make sure that we can address those issues and get back to the bread and butter of how this game was played.

[Colin Cowherd]

They're going to be good. They're not. They don't have enough high end talent but they're going to be good.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

I like the gray beard look with the glasses. Looks like a college professor.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, he's a philosopher.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

There you go.

[Colin Cowherd]

A fool Osopher or J. Mac with a new well, that's the news and

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

thanks for stopping by the Herd line.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from the Odd Couple on Fox Sports Radio.

[Al Harrington]

And in addition to hearing us live weeknights from 7 to 10pm Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right, you can now watch the Odd couple live on YouTube every day.

[Al Harrington]

All you got to do search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube again YouTube just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out on YouTube and subscribe.

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[OnNicotine Advertisement]

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[Discover Card Advertisement]

It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously. All of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. I mean, after all, you listen to this show. See termsiscover.com Credit card I turned off news altogether.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's the rage bait.

[Erin Andrews]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

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NBC News brings you Clear reporting.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let's meet at the facts.

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Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Colin Cowherd]

I love these NBA veterans who played 15 plus years in the NBA and they've got all this wisdom and all these stories. And Al Harrington certainly did, averaging about 13, 14 a game, 16 years in the NBA. He'll be on First Things first later today. And Al Harrington is now joining us live. Seven different teams in the NBA. Couple of years with the Knicks. You may remember those. All right, let's, let's. Al, first of all, thanks for coming on the show. New York is different. All these players say, I mean, I can remember Michael Jordan going to New York, Kobe in the regular season. They're like, it is show time. You tell me when you play there for two years, what makes New York playing in the Garden different?

[Al Harrington]

It's something about just playing on Broadway, man. It's just, you know, the celebrities there. You know, I always say it was something about the lighting, right? You know, out of all the arenas in the, in the league, like the way that the Garden is set up is like a stage, you know what I'm saying? So you don't get that environment anywhere but New York. And when you come, you know, like, you got to bring your A game or you're going to hear about it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, the, you know, the Knicks are interesting. I always thought Carl Anthony Towns was crazy talented, but he'd get into like dumb fouls and sometimes I just didn't think he was serious enough or focused enough. I never doubted his ability. I mean, everybody in the league knows guy's one of the best jump shooting bigs in the, maybe in the history of the sport. Are you shocked at how good he's been in the finals? He would be the MVP today. He's outplayed Wimby. Your take on that.

[Al Harrington]

I'm just, you know, I'm extremely proud of him, man. I just really look at the way that he's matured in these playoffs more than even the season. Right. You know, he's really bought into like the team concept. I think the biggest hurdle that he had to get over was just really just accepting that this is Jalen Brunson's team, right. You know, you seven foot, you the big guy on campus. You just feel like this should be my team, this is all about me. But it's not, you know, in New York, it's about Jalen. And I think that Mike Brown, what he's done with him has allowed him to be more integrated in the game and not just focus on scoring. You know, I always. I was saying the other day that I feel like he's playing a little bit more like, you know, Draymond Green, where he's like, almost like a point center. So he's like, you know, he's the one starting the offense. You know, he's, you know, he's obviously, you know, he's scoring. When he gets his driving opportunities, he's finishing at a higher clip. And then I think because he's playing so well offensively and he feel like he's a part of it, that he's buying in on the defensive end, and that's a big difference in this team right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

So the spurs have led both games late. They've led by double figures in both, and they lose. And at times I watch them and they look frenetic. They look like a little. They're a little hyper. Go to the youngest team, Al, that you ever played on. You tell me late in games, I just feel like, if it's close, I trust the Knicks. And I think some of that is learned behavior. Some of it is just, there's nothing the spurs can do. They have to fail here. Go to your youngest teams and maybe the oldest team you were on and the difference with four to five minutes left in a game.

[Al Harrington]

Well, I definitely have to just go from the standpoint of, like, you know, playing this type of basketball, playing this deep into the season. It had to be my Indiana pace of years, right? When I first came in the league, my second year, we went to the finals and we played against, you know, Kobe and Shaq, and that was their first championship. And I was on a super veteran team, right? And that team, to your point, you know, you just never felt like you was out of it, right? And no matter what circumstance happened throughout the game, you always felt like you knew how to get out of it. Then you fast forward to two years later when, you know, we were a younger team where Reggie Miller was our only vet on the team, but it was myself, Ron Artest, Jermaine o', Neal, Jamal Tinsley, and we were a younger team, and there was times when we were in series and we would kind of doubt ourselves, you know what I'm saying? Just because we were young, we hadn't been through enough at that point. And I think that's what's happening with the spurs, right? I think that they're youthful. Like, ignorance is what has allowed them to get themselves here because they just, like, they have no fear. But then, you know, to the point of when certain runs happen in the games, you could just see that body language that goes down on the Knicks. On the other hand, when they're down 15 points, you can't see. You can't tell the difference. Right? They're just locked in. They just feel like they're going to find a way to win this game. And that's from three years of going as far as they win the playoffs and having heartbreak. And now they realize that, like, this is what it takes and it doesn't matter, like, how bad things are going, things can change that fast. So I think that's the difference between these two teams in particular, and it's the reason why I think that the Knicks will ultimately win this series.

[Colin Cowherd]

So, listen, in baseball, if you got fired four times, you'd never be a manager again, probably. And in football, similarly. But Mike Brown has been around, possibly Popovich, Carlisle, Steve Kerr, all these systems. He'd been let go four times, but yet he wasn't the first choice. But when he was hired, there was a feeling that he's good offensively, he's a good listener. The guys will like him and the players have bought into it. It doesn't matter what's happened on his resume. Do you know Mike Brown and what do you make of his sort of career resurgence here in the last month and a half?

[Al Harrington]

So to your point, like, I. I played with Mike. I played for Mike Brown when I was in Indiana when he was there under Carlisle. And I think two of the names that you mentioned to me are two of the brightest offensive minds in the game of basketball. And that's Rick Carlisle, who I feel like was the best offensive coach I ever played for. And then Steve Kerr, right, He was in. Steve Kerr obviously has turned, you know, what he's doing into, you know, multiple championships. And I think with Mike Brown being around those guys, he's learned so much. And with the Knicks, the problem was that we felt like Thibodeau just couldn't get us over the hump on the offensive end. Defensively, we were there, but we just wasn't creative enough on the offensive end to incorporate guys like Karl Anthony Towns and get Bridges going and get OG going. So that's why they brought Mike Brown in. And when Mike Brown, the fact that he's had that much experience and played with those. Excuse me. And coached under those coaches, he was just the perfect fit at the right time for this team. And you see that we're clicking at all cylinders. And you look at this season right in the beginning of the season. It was kind of some question marks, even in the beginning of the playoffs in the Atlanta series, right? We're like, oh, does Mike Brown know what he's doing if he lose? You know, this is the wrong pick, but look at what it's become, right? And I think that he's a really good coach. You know, he really deserves it. You know, you think about it when he, you know, I think he led, I think, the Cleveland Cavaliers to a Finals. I think at one point. No, maybe. No, he didn't. But, you know, he's been around the game for a long time, been around a lot of highly talented players. And I think that his time in Golden State is definitely what is allowing him to have this type of success here in New York with all these type of players.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I said this about Wemby, first of all, he's not having a terrible series. He's averaging 27 a game. But he's young. And I said a lot of the bigs in the history of basketball, Moses Malone, Yokich Shaq, Bill Russell, Akeem Olajuwon, they were big, thick man, they moved people. Wemby's a little bit more Sam Buoy, Ralph Sampson, where he's really long and he's. He's pretty thin. Is it possible, Al, that this is going to be a react. What the Knicks are doing is a playbook. And if he doesn't gain 25 pounds, which he may never, that this is always going to be the liability, the hole in Wemby's game, which is, you know, it's hard to put on a lot of weight and be fluid at 7 4, is that he's going to be a thin player who you may be able to push around if you have the right personnel.

[Al Harrington]

You know what. So, I mean, I played with Reggie Miller, who was a thin player, and, you know, I just think that with age you kind of get. You start to gain your grown man strength, as we call it, right? You look at even Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant's another guy that's small. And people, you know, in the beginning of his career could push him around. I think with this kid, over time, you know, I think he's going to put the work in. When you look at, like his offseason last year, I mean, he went to the Shaolin Monks to get better, to look for a mental edge, right? He worked out with Hakeem Olajuwon. I think that this summer, you know, he needs to, you know, continue to work with some of the greats. You know, one of the guys that I would specifically think that he should go work out with is a guy like Dirk Nowitzki to kind of help him figure out a post shot that he can guarantee. Know that 100 out of 100 times, when he gets to this spot and get the ball right here, he's going to score that basketball. You know, at the end of the day, the kid is very raw offensively, and that's just. That's just the reality that we all kind of have to deal with. And it's because he's young. He's 22 years old. Wait till, like, I heard you talking about the gambling thing. Wait till he's 25. When he's 25, oh, my God, I don't think anybody's going to want to see him. And I don't care how much he weighs, he's just going to continue to get better years after year. And I think with this. This playoff run this summer, it allowed him to sit down with whoever he works out with and whoever's responsible for helping him become a better player. They're going to have so many different things that they're going to be able to figure out where he can get better. And I expect him next season to be a better version of the player that we've seen this year, by the

[Colin Cowherd]

way, like the Spurs. You should stop doubting yourself. Mike Brown did lead the Cavs to the Finals once, so. Al, you did okay.

[Al Harrington]

I'm sorry.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Sorry.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right now.

[Al Harrington]

He's a good coach, man. Like, and he was always a great guy. Like, you know, he's a guy that you wanted to play for. You know, he's like. He was always motivational. Now he was an offensive, you know, coordinator. Let's just say, even though Rick was obviously running the offense, but, you know, he was just always one of the guys that, you know, when guys were down, he was the first coach coming, putting his arm around you and saying, like, look, we're going to figure this out together. We're going to figure out how to get you more involved. We're going to figure out how to get you back on track. And I know as a head coach, exuding that kind of confidence into these guys, pouring into these guys constantly, is definitely the difference.

[Colin Cowherd]

As always, Al, good seeing you again.

[Al Harrington]

Good seeing you, too, Colin, man.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, Al Harrington is going to be on. First things first today, I tell you, we had Taj Gibson. Last week, we had Al Harrington. There's something about guys who have been around the league for 15 years. And they've been on all those turbulent flights and turbulent teams and coaching changes and it's something else. Look at that. Any, any news there? Breaking news.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Hold on.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm going to see if J. Mac was right. Hold on. All right. I, I don't think my take is controversial, you could say for the quarterback who's really good, by the way. He, he has a chance to be a. He may drop a little bit second, third round because of the gambling stuff, but the Supreme Court said you can gamble. And, and, and the disturbance rate on gambling is lower than alcohol. It should be noted. It's less addictive than alcohol. And I'm for alcohol. And, and my take is he made a huge mistake and you can throw him out. But.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Well, look, it wasn't one mistake, Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, no, yeah, he.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Again, 9,000.

[Colin Cowherd]

Look at, look at.

[Erin Andrews]

In, in.

[Colin Cowherd]

He had a gambling problem.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Yes. Addiction.

[Colin Cowherd]

Just before you judge him, my take is ask yourself if you're the bleeding heart, look at what, where there's real victims beyond, you know, like the perpetrator. Like there's real victims. Assault. I mean I, when I see people driving 120 miles an hour and get tickets, I think, and I think that's incredibly irresponsible. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Or you're drunk driving and you go out of a stadium six, natty, lights out and you're driving around home. It's like you can ruin other families. This is something he did which is now shameful. He'll wear it forever. It's embarrassing and he's gonna miss games. But my question is, what do we do to young people who make really big mistakes? Okay, so what do we do?

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Let me ask you, Colin. Maybe I'll adjust it this way. Is the two game suspension enough for him to, quote, unquote, learn his lesson?

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, let's say, let's say this for me. I would think the suspension would be longer. So let me wrap a bow around it. Let's say, listen, he can't play this year, but he can play going forward. But we're going to move off him for a year. I wouldn't be outraged by that.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Well, he would certainly go to college football and go to the supplemental draft.

[Colin Cowherd]

What year is he?

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Is he a. I think he's a senior. But he hasn't. Might have another year left. I'd have to double check that. But if you said you're out for the year, he just say, screw this, I'm going to the supplemental draft. Someone will take me in the second or third round.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, he's talented enough if he had a good season to be a first rounder. Oh, so if they. Let's say the judge says, you're out. No more college football. He would. In somebody's supplemental draft, he would get picked up. Absolutely. He's too talented. Go on YouTube, watch him. He's too talented. And that would cost him eight figures because he would get drafted in the sixth round because of the stigma. That's real. Instead of being drafted in the first round. So there is punishment societally being doled out, right? There is. There is punishment here. It's not what people want. People want blood. And I think a lot of the opinions are based on how do you feel about gambling? Like, a lot of people don't like it. And that just. That's going to tilt, in my opinion. Their view, let's say the judge. I mean, listen, this comes down to a Texas judge, and this is not necessarily how it would be ruled in New Hampshire or New York or New Haven, Connecticut. But this is how it was ruled, and that's why we have our courts. Judges sometimes lean left, right, permissive, rigid. All judges are different. Well, let's see. Sorsby will miss games versus Abilene Christian and Oregon State. So those were going to be big, easy, productive. W's where he throws for 300 yards. He's out on those. I mean, I imagine the Internet is probably, what, 80% against him?

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Yes. Maybe 90.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. And again, I'm okay. I'm comfortable with those opinions. I'm also comfortable him playing an abbreviated schedule. I'm comfortable he has to go directly to the supplemental draft. I'm okay with that. I don't, I don't, you know, no real dogma here. It's like he made a huge mistake. He's gonna pay for it one way or another. People are looking for suspensions, but there are some societal punishments that will be doled out. It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's the rage bait.

[Erin Andrews]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

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[Colin Cowherd]

So J. Mac likes the spurs tonight. The Lions are interesting. So now it comes back to New York. We know how electric and dynamic the crowd will be. And now the spurs are only a one and a half point dog. So that that's a very interesting number. The feeling is game three, desperate teams, regardless of venue, tend to do very well. The number tells you it's going to go down to the wire. You know, it's funny, there was a moment. I don't know about you, but there was a moment on Friday, I think it was the second quarter and the Spurs Were just throwing every. They were hitting shots, and they were just throwing everything at the Knicks. And about three minutes later, I look up and the Knicks are up one. And I'm like, oh, the series is over. Like, they're taking all the body blows, all the shots, and it's like, it's Holyfield, Tyson. And you look up and you're like, no, Evander's fine. He just took a left hook. He's fine. He's going to win this fight.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Have you followed the Landry Shemit story? Two years ago he was in the Knicks G League team. He's now like 50% from 3 in the finals. And he was unbelievable. He couldn't miss against the Cavs. I mean, literally just on fire. And a guy like Landry Shimon is going to swing the series. Colin, that's crazy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, he hasn't missed. There is. Here's Wemby on being down.02.

[Al Harrington]

The key is acceptance A lot of times and taking a step back, realizing the. The. All the, you know, the journey that's behind us and what's ahead of us, and just being okay with who I am, where I am, what I'm doing. I think at the end of the day, this is everything that I wish for. So there's no reason to really overthink it or. I mean, this is what I'm built for.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's just such an incredible kid. I mean, just 22 years old, and to be that mature is remarkable.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

I'm sure you saw some of the videos of him this weekend in New York City. He's literally just going to Central park and, like, painting. I'm not even kidding. The videos of him are insane. Because if you see, like, Bradley Cooper walking around, you're like, is that Bradley Cooper? Maybe Wemby. Everybody's like, holy cow, it's that alien. He's 7 foot 4. Look at him, you know, it's pretty awesome.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's. We've been. We've been lucky. We've had, you know, you go through these runs. We had an incredible Game seven of the World Series. We had a very good March Madness. Like, exceptional. The NBA season was weird. We had a tanking epidemic. I mean, there's a lot of sweeps. It was just kind of an ugly NBA. Then we got a great Western Conference finals, and I kind of feel like sports owes us. We can't have another sweep. It is. It just. I mean, Nick fans are all like, we saw this coming. No, you didn't. Nobody would have. The last time the Knicks lost was the first day of the NFL draft. Is that crazy? You think you'd get an injury, you'd have a shooting slump? I mean, they've played in tough environments. Philadelphia, San Antonio. You think you just have a bad half?

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Was that like two international trips ago for you? I mean, it was so long ago. I barely forget or remember.

[Colin Cowherd]

I will be for the next eight days at home, just watching. I mean, for the next three weeks, mostly World Cup.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

Oh, the World Cup. I'm so geeked.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, my goodness.

[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

A lot of wagers coming in. Sorry, Sworesby. A lot of World cup wagers coming in.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I'll probably get bashed for that take. But, you know, I'm not sure what we're supposed to do with people that make mistakes, especially young people. But what about Pete Rose? We all want Pete Rose in the hall of Fame, right? And he was an adult who made those mistakes. Hi, it's Colin Coward. If you're looking for the best blend of durability and affordability in decking, Trust Summit decking from Deckorators. Summit features Deckorators patented surestone technology so the boards won't splinter, sag, chalk or crack over time. And the colors. Three great options that really capture the

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

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[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

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[Erin Andrews]

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[Fox Sports Radio Analyst (possibly a co-host or guest)]

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