Hour 3 - BREAKING NEWS : Knicks fire Tom Thibodeau

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 3: BREAKING NEWS: Knicks Fire Tom Thibodeau

Introduction

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, released on June 3, 2025, the hosts delve into one of the most shocking developments in the NBA: the New York Knicks' decision to part ways with head coach Tom Thibodeau despite the team's impressive performance this season. The discussion is enriched with expert insights from Christian Winfield, the Knicks beat writer for the New York Daily News, and features engaging conversations about team dynamics, coaching strategies, and future prospects.

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Kevin Durant's Potential Move to the Knicks

Timestamp: [03:18] - [06:17]

The episode kicks off with Jason McIntyre addressing the buzz around Kevin Durant potentially joining the New York Knicks. Bringing in Christian Winfield, they explore the realism and implications of such a high-profile move.

• Jason McIntyre: “Is there a realistic chance for Kevin Durant to end up with the Knicks?”

• Christian Winfield: “[At 04:41] Kevin Durant, at 37, brings championship pedigree but his asking price and injury history make a Knicks acquisition unlikely.”

Christian outlines the challenges, including Durant’s hefty salary requirements and the Knicks' lack of draft assets, making the move seem more like a pipe dream.

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Leadership and Team Dynamics

Timestamp: [05:09] - [07:30]

The conversation shifts to Durant's leadership style and how it would mesh with the Knicks' existing roster. Christian emphasizes Durant's ability to lead by example rather than traditional on-court leadership.

• Christian Winfield: “[05:58] Durant leads by action, setting a standard of excellence, though he may not be the playmaker akin to LeBron James.”

This segment highlights concerns about the Knicks’ defensive issues and how Durant’s presence might affect team chemistry under Tom Thibodeau's coaching style.

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Bench Depth and Coaching Strategies

Timestamp: [07:30] - [10:47]

McIntyre and Winfield delve into the Knicks' bench depth, a critical factor for championship contention. They critique Thibodeau's handling of backups like Mikhail Bridges and the lack of reliable bench players contributing significantly during the playoffs.

• Christian Winfield: “[09:12] The Knicks need a quality backup point guard to preserve Brunson and enhance bench scoring, something currently lacking.”

The discussion underscores the necessity for the Knicks to bolster their bench to compete with top-tier teams, suggesting that without depth, sustaining success is challenging.

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Criticisms and Challenges Faced by Thibodeau

Timestamp: [09:39] - [10:47]

Further criticism is directed at Thibodeau for not effectively utilizing drafted players and offseason signings, leading to underperformance of key bench players during crucial moments.

• Christian Winfield: “[09:39] Thibodeau has been inconsistent in integrating new and draft players, which hampers the team's overall performance.”

Despite these criticisms, Christian acknowledges that the Knicks have seen improvement under Thibodeau, raising the question of whether a coaching change is warranted given the recent successes.

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Breaking News: Firing of Tom Thibodeau

Timestamp: [31:31] - [35:06]

In a dramatic turn of events, Jason McIntyre announces the firing of Tom Thibodeau shortly after previously defending his coaching tenure. This unprecedented decision comes despite the Knicks achieving their best season in decades and reaching the conference finals.

• Jason McIntyre: “[31:31] The Knicks have fired Tom Thibodeau following a stellar season, a move that surprises many given the team's success.”

The abrupt dismissal is attributed to internal conflicts, possibly involving team president Leon Rose and owner James Dolan, reflecting turmoil behind the scenes despite on-court achievements.

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Reactions and Implications for the Knicks

Timestamp: [35:06] - [43:28]

The hosts and guests react to the news, discussing the potential fallout for key players like Jalen Brunson and Karl-Anthony Towns. There's speculation about future coaching hires, with mentions of possible candidates like Steve Nash, although uncertainties remain.

• Jason McIntyre: “[33:28] With Thibodeau gone, the future of leaders like Brunson and Towns is uncertain, raising concerns about the team’s direction.”

Christian Winfield expresses surprise and suggests that the Knicks might need to make significant changes to maintain their momentum, potentially involving trades or strategic adjustments.

---

Side Discussions: Haunted Hotels and NFL Insights

Timestamp: [18:35] - [42:58]

Amidst the main discussion, the podcast features lighter segments, including a humorous exchange about haunted hotels in Oklahoma City with Brock Vereen. Additionally, the conversation veers into NFL territory, where Alex Curry provides insights into quarterback rankings and the potential impact of Travis Hunter playing both offense and defense.

• Brock Vereen: “[19:38] Discusses haunted hotels and shares personal ghost sightings, adding a fun twist to the episode.”

• Alex Curry: “[36:17] Analyzes NFL quarterback performances, offering hot takes on Jordan Love over Jared Goff and discussing the versatility of Travis Hunter.”

These segments provide a well-rounded listening experience, balancing serious sports analysis with entertaining anecdotes.

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the unexpected firing of Tom Thibodeau, leaving listeners pondering the future trajectory of the New York Knicks. McIntyre emphasizes the shock and potential repercussions of the decision, while engaging guests hint at the complexities behind maintaining a successful NBA team.

• Jason McIntyre: “[33:27] Expresses bewilderment at the firing, highlighting the conflicting perspectives on Thibodeau’s role in the Knicks' success.”

Listeners are left anticipating the Knicks' next moves in rebuilding their coaching staff and reinforcing team dynamics to sustain their competitive edge.

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Notable Quotes

• Christian Winfield ([04:41]): “Kevin Durant, at 37, brings championship pedigree but his asking price and injury history make a Knicks acquisition unlikely.”

• Christian Winfield ([05:58]): “Durant leads by action, setting a standard of excellence, though he may not be the playmaker akin to LeBron James.”

• Christian Winfield ([09:12]): “The Knicks need a quality backup point guard to preserve Brunson and enhance bench scoring, something currently lacking.”

• Christian Winfield ([09:39]): “Thibodeau has been inconsistent in integrating new and draft players, which hampers the team's overall performance.”

• Jason McIntyre ([31:31]): “The Knicks have fired Tom Thibodeau following a stellar season, a move that surprises many given the team's success.”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers a deep dive into one of the NBA's most surprising decisions, blending expert analysis with engaging discussions. Whether you're a die-hard Knicks fan or a casual sports enthusiast, the insights provided shed light on the complexities of team management and the unpredictable nature of professional sports.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Let's get this party started.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason McIntyre]

Back here on the Herd. Listen, Kevin Durant, I have a checkered relationship with him. He's 36, turning 37. He's kind of near the end of his prime. I mean, he could still get you a bucket. I don't know what else he could do, but there's a lot of chatter right now. An article just dropped about the potential for him going to Houston. The New York Knicks. So we're bringing in Christian Winfield of the New York Daily News covers the Knicks beat writer. Christian, listen, man, this Kevin Durant stuff, I know it's exciting, but I gotta be honest, I don't know how realistic it is for him to end up with the Knicks. What are you hearing on your. On your end here?

[Christian Winfield]

Well, you gotta remember, I got a chance to cover Kevin Durant for four years while he was a member, while he was the leader of that Brooklyn Nets team. And one thing he's going to do as soon as he walks through the door is raise the level of everyone that's around him. That's just the championship pedigree. That's the hall of Famer pedigree that he brings. That being said, you hit the nail on the head. He's going to be 37 years old in September. We know in terms of just injury history, it's been checkered. And on top of that, the asking price, this guy's making more than $50 million, and then you're probably going to have to sign him to an extension after that. Just what does that look like at this stage of his career? It's hard for me to see the Knicks, especially considering they don't really have any draft assets after he gave up five from Mikhail Bridges to make this deal happen, let alone what they'd have to give up to get them. I don't see it happening.

[Jason McIntyre]

Feels like a pipe dream, but let's turn back the clock. So you covered that Durant Nets team, which was basically the Titanic, right? I mean, with Kyrie Irving, James Harden, you know, the sage in the locker room and James Harden, one of the things Durant didn't do was be a leader. I'm just curious. He's often talked, hey, I just want to hoop. I don't want to be a Leader. Is there a world where he becomes one at this stage of his career because he hasn't won anything since the Warriors?

[Christian Winfield]

You know, I think it's dependent on what your definition is of a leader. Right. If you, if you ask the guys that are in that locker room, Kevin Durant is the type of guy who leads by his actions. He's someone who's coming in early, getting his work, and he's setting a standard of excellence and showing guys what it takes to perform at a certain level. Now, if you're talking about leader on the floor, being the guy who can make every decision with the ball for a team, kind of like LeBron, kind of like what we're seeing with Luca Shay, along those lines, then maybe that's not your guy in terms of the number one person that you can have to win a title. But in terms of just locker room presence, in terms of raising the IQ and just the overall ability of everyone in the locker room, Kevin Durant is most certainly a leader. It just depends on what a team needs. And, you know, in Brooklyn, I mean, there were more things that could have gone wrong other than Kevin Durant. Kevin Durham is probably the most consistent in terms of what you were getting from every single day. I don't think he was the problem there.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I, I am curious. Do you think he fits with Brunson? I know it's easy to say Durant fits anywhere. He's a bucket guy. He just shoots, shoot the ball. I don't know. He. You could argue he hasn't worked with Devin Booker, who doesn't have as high of a usage rate as Brunson. But do you think this would be like an easy partnership?

[Christian Winfield]

I don't know. Because with the Knicks already right now, you have two issues on defense. And at this point in Kevin Durant's career, especially dealing with the injuries, and then at age 37, to have another pressure point on the defensive end would be a pretty tough sell. Offensively, I think KD is a bucket. No matter 3747, 57, he's going to be money from that mid range. He's going to be money with. In clunch, in crunch time moments, no matter how old he is. It's really just on the defensive end right now where there are concerns and then his durability, of course, especially if you're talking about playing Kevin Durant under Tom Thibodeau, I mean, how many minutes can he play before he starts to wear down? So I think fit in terms of that would be a question. But offensively, you put him next to anybody, he's going to find a way to be effective.

[Jason McIntyre]

So we know the vibes at the Garden were incredible during that Pacer series. You know, Timothy Chalamet rolling up with the Jenner sister, and it was just amazing. But for whatever reason, just because they lost the series, all Knicks fans are like, all right, how do we fix this? How do we blow it up? This was their best season this century, I believe. I don't know. I'm under the impression they should probably just tinker with the bench. And I'm okay with keeping tibs, but where are you on the whole run it back versus let's go get this guy, blah, blah, blah.

[Christian Winfield]

Well, when you look at the two teams that are representing both conferences in the NBA Finals, you've got two teams that are not afraid of playing 10 players, that have played 10 players in a rotation regularly throughout the season. I think that's going to be the new standard. If you're going to be a team that's going to compete for a title, you've got to have a deep bench. And when you look at the Knicks, things get shaky outside of the next, outside of the top seven to eight players, you don't have that reliable eighth or ninth guy off the bench that you know can fill in and play quality miss. And by the time the Knicks found them, which was Landry Shamon and Dylan Wright in the in the conference finals, it was too late. They hadn't been tinkering with a lot of these lineups. So to your point, I think bench depth is something they have to target. I think backup point guard is something they absolutely have to target. When you consider the difference between T.J. mcConnell for the Indiana Pacers and whoever was stepping up behind Jalen Brunson, you get a quality backup point guard in there, you're able to maybe preserve Brunson in some of these minutes down the stretch where he's otherwise tired, Right? So there's those two parts of it. And then the big part is, how can this team kind of maximize the pieces that they already have? You stack that starting five up against a lot of these other teams in the conference, and you've got a team that should be winning a lot of these games. The issue is, you know, you've got the ball being stuck in Brunson's hands at times. You've got the ball not getting the towns for stretches at a time, and then you've got players like Og Anunobi and Mikhail Bridges Who've shown they can carry scoring loads that just aren't getting utilized to their, to their biggest potential. Right. So how do you maximize these guys? How do you, you know, get better bench scoring? The Knicks had the worst bench in all the basketball for in terms of production, scoring. And then how do you just make all the pieces fit? That's something that we had we didn't see from this team. Making the pieces fit, putting together complete 48 minute games. But I think the Knicks have what it takes in terms of their core. Just have to bolster that bench a little bit.

[Jason McIntyre]

So it's interesting. You, you know, you made it sound like you have some question. Is Thibodeau the guy to navigate that whole we got to play bench guys, you know, like Tyler Kolek? I mean, I know no casual fans are like, who the hell is that? That kid was a stud at Marquette. You know, I'm a fan of his work. I don't understand why he was pinned to the bench. I like McBride. I thought he showed well, like shouldn't those guys have played more in the regular season so they were ready in the playoffs?

[Christian Winfield]

That is one big criticism here of Tom Thibodeau is not having guys that you draft, not having players like Pacomb Daddy A. You know, you sign pressure chua to a $6 million deal in the offseason as one of your main offseason additions, or being able to just use him in terms of cap space, being able to retain him and you don't play him that much, if not if at all, during the regular season playoffs come around and he's pinned to the bench. So that is a question here. Will Tibbs utilize the bench? Will Tibbs, you know, develop younger players towards the beginning of the season so that they're serviceable at the end, you know, and also will Tibbs put together an offensive plan that isn't just ISO ball, have Jalen dribble the ball and make a play, right? There were too many stretches where Cat isn't getting touches. There were too many stretches where Mikhail or OG are just not getting used to the best of their abilities. That being said, you know, this is back to back 50 win seasons. This is conference finals, conference. This is two second round exits and then a conference finals appearance. You know, the, the data shows that since Thibodeau was taken over, the Knicks have gone up. So you kind of can't just throw that out the window. But we've seen teams make coaching changes that were unpopular because they couldn't get over the hump. What are the Knicks do this offseason? We'll have to stick. Stay tuned.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, you go back to the warriors with Mark Jackson, you know, it felt like they hit a ceiling. They put in Steve Kerr, he makes the switch and they make the jump to lightspeed. But I don't know, the way you just frame the Knicks, it's like they've had three good seasons. I don't know. Is this a version of Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum in Portland? Hey, we're going to win 45, 50, 52ish games every year, but we ain't winning the title.

[Christian Winfield]

I wouldn't go that far just yet. Remember, this is the first seat, the first season of this new look group, right? And then you consider Towns gets traded here in the middle of training camp, Brunson misses a month of time, guys are in and out of the lineup. You know, mid season trade, moving Jericho Sims out. You know, there's a lot of moving pieces here. I think a full training camp, I think a full year under this team's but and I really just think the sting of losing in the conference finals when you were that close to the NBA Finals can help improve this team. But at the same time, there's just some glaring shortcomings with this roster in terms of how do you get Jalen and Carl on the same page. Defensively, that's a big thing. When you look at the stats from these conference finals alone, it's hard to find lineups with Towns and Brunson on the floor that were a net positive against this Pacer team. Towns with a bunch of good defenders around him, good lineup. Brunson with good defenders around him, good lineup. Towns and Brunson, negative lineups is not a good solution right now. And some of that might have to include trading a guy. You know, it might be Josh Hart, it could be, you know, Mitchell Robinson, it could be Myles McBride. The Knicks are going to be open for business. When you consider the salary cap situation they're in, they're not going to have many mechanisms to add players in free agency. So you're looking at potentially a lot of wheeling and dealing in a way to try to improve this roster.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get A well groomed lawn delivered. But you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The Ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate. The BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine electrified. The following heartwarming yet informative scene is brought to you by Trust and Will. Son, your grandpa and I used to work on this car together. And when I'm gone, I want you to have it.

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[Jason McIntyre]

All right, Christian, we could wrap up with a two parter on the NBA Finals. Listen, I'm a big hoops guy. You know, I play in men's leagues and stuff. I'm not super geeked about this finals. A, are you gonna watch it or are you going vacation now because you're done covering the Knicks? And then B, do the Pacers have any shot here to beat okc?

[Christian Winfield]

I'm definitely going to watch it. Listen, I think that in terms of play styles, you've got two teams that are going to defend, that are going to play a lot of players and they're going to, they're going to play with a lot of pace. And I do think the Pacers have a shot because we saw Pascal Siakam step up and play championship level basketball against the Knicks. The Knicks had no answer for him. Just in terms of leak outs, just in terms of one on one defense. They just couldn't stop him. Now OKC is a completely different animal. They're a buzzsaw on both ends of the floor. I still think the Thunder win this series, but I think you've got two polarizing fun players in Shay, Gildrich Alexander and Tyrese Halliburton. You got two, two deep rotations you got two really high caliber coaches and Rick Carlisle and Mark Degnault as well. So I think it'll be a fun series. Obviously these are small markets. OKC in Indiana, you know, if I'd have had to go to okc, I don't know what I would have done for five days of my time. But at the end of the day, you're getting two high quality teams. Two teams that are going to play fun, up tempo basketball. I think it'd be fun to watch. But I've got OKC in five or six. I think the Pacers can get one. It's just going to be tough when. When OKC is going to just keep coming at you and they've got the size advantage. Hartenstein is going to be a big difference in the series because the Pacers had no answer for Mitchell Robinson either.

[Jason McIntyre]

You mentioned okc. I've never been there, but I guess you went on the next road trip there. What's this? What is there to do in Oklahoma City? I saw they're the 47th largest TV market or something like that.

[Christian Winfield]

Oh, no, you're asking the wrong person. I've never been. I didn't go for the real game. I was dreading if the Knicks actually made the finals. I was like, where am I? Am I going to stay at the haunted hotel? Like, what are we going to do? Yeah, I was actually looking into it. I was thinking. But then the issue becomes if I go stay at the haunted hotel, then we might not have a Knicks beat writer anymore. So I don't know. Next time, next season, maybe I'll go try to find some food. I'll have a food recommendation for you.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's the highlight of okc. A haunted hotel. Okay. All right. It sounds like a awesome city, cultural crossroads. Christian, great stuff. Thanks a lot and enjoy the off season, buddy.

[Christian Winfield]

Thanks for having me. Anytime.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Haunted hotels in okc.

[Brock Vereen]

Alex, That's a thing. Because I was on the road with the Angels and the kings for 10 years and there's a lot of cities that have very well known haunted hotels that teams stay in.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wait, hold on. Do you believe in ghosts? Yeah.

[Brock Vereen]

Oh, I've seen them. I'm one of those.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, boy.

[Brock Vereen]

Come at me.

[Jason McIntyre]

Let's go to Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

[Alex Curry]

This is the herd.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just wait, wait.

[Brock Vereen]

Now you're gonna get them.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just confirming you admitted on national TV you believe in ghosts.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah, spirits, like energy.

[Jason McIntyre]

So are they moving stuff like.

[Brock Vereen]

No.

[Jason McIntyre]

Or are they just appearing?

[Brock Vereen]

No, it's yeah, that's what I thought.

[Jason McIntyre]

Come on. Ghosts?

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah. Like you've never been in a situation where you've had. Dude, that's why there's these haunted places. There's places where, like, you can feel an energy and you can feel that there's an outside energy and things happen and things move or lights change or. I've seen like a little figure. Like. Yeah, my parents house growing up was haunted. So.

[Jason McIntyre]

Excuse me, one more time.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah, my parents house that I grew up in was haunted. So that's why, like, it's. Yeah. So like, you saw some things you.

[Jason McIntyre]

Talk about, like an air. I've been in, like spring break in Acapulco and there's energy in the club. It was like, this is the place to be different. I don't know what you're talking about. Different?

[Brock Vereen]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Good. All right. So the staff tells me there's something called the Skirvin Hotel in Oklahoma City.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Voted most haunted hotel in the country.

[Brock Vereen]

Oh, no. It's crazy. There's also one when you play the Tampa Bay Rays, but you don't stay in Tampa Bay. You stay in. I forget where you say, but this pink hotel. And it's very well known, all the players. It was my first time on the road trip. They tried to put me on the haunted floor and in the haunted room and I was like, in tears. Yeah, I was in tears at the front desk. Like, you can't do this to me. Like, please don't do this to me. Like, I won't sleep.

[Jason McIntyre]

I won't be a ghost guy. I know we gotta get into the news, but I. I just have to ask, like, what are the ghosts? What are they doing moving stuff in the room and scaring you?

[Brock Vereen]

No, it's more of like, you just feel it and you see it. It's an energy.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, so now the staff is looking up the haunted hotels and like, testing.

[Brock Vereen]

It's a thing. Get into it. Okay, let's. Let's get started. In the NBA, the first price for Kevin Durant is going down. Suns have pitched Durant to the Rockets several times, according to a report from the Athletic. And that report says that over the course of several calls, the Suns have gradually lowered their asking price. Now, you have to remember, like, prices are pretty skewed right now with the last two big trades. You had Malik Bridges last season go for four first round picks and a first round pick swap. But then you had Luka this season go for basically AD and Max Christie. So you're kind Of I thought they were going to be in a holding pattern to see what Giannis, where he went and what his asking price was going to be. But it kind of sounds like the Suns are trying to offload Katie before that. So they're not set kind of in whatever Giannis sets the market price at.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. So for instance, you know, all these tariffs that are coming for the country, I think they're goofy and a terrible idea, but nevertheless, I talked to some people who were like, yeah, man, I got the new iPhone, I went and got a new car. Yeah, I gotta get this crap before this stuff hits. And the prices are jacked up.

[Brock Vereen]

Insane.

[Jason McIntyre]

It almost feels like the Suns are saying, holy cow. Yeah, we better get off KD quick. Let's just not pennies on the dollar, but let's move fast.

[Christian Winfield]

Yeah.

[Brock Vereen]

Because it kingpa, it's kind of been all over the place the last two big trades we've seen. But because they're both most likely going to be moved this off season, they're gonna have similar asking prices. And if Giannis goes first and he.

[Jason McIntyre]

Gets a, he's younger, I think he's gonna fetch more. But like, huh, that's interesting.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, I, I probably in the new market for a new iPhone. I'm waking up and my battery's being at like 60 and I charge it. Maybe it's a ghost, Alex, that's draining my battery overnight.

[Brock Vereen]

I am just waiting for you to now get haunted. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a beautiful thing. You're gonna wake up, you're gonna cry, I'm gonna get a phone call. You were right, Curry.

[Jason McIntyre]

I haven't tried in a while, but maybe it's coming.

[Brock Vereen]

All right, let's go to New York. And your Knicks are stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. New York traded four first round picks and a pick swap for Mikhail Bridges. And now he's up for a massive four year, $156 million extension. Now, Bridges struggled in the playoffs, shooting 33% from three in the playoffs. So the question is, do you pay him or not? You gave up a lot to get him. Wasn't bad. He was a plus defender. Needs to be a better offensive player. But as you, I, you've kind of stuck to this this week. And since the Knicks lost, is he one of the pieces you move or do you pay him? Because you, you said you don't. You don't think you need to do any big changes.

[Jason McIntyre]

I like, I like Bridges a lot. The problem Is I'm doing some math quickly in my head. Yeah, that's like $26 million a year for your fourth best player. OG Towns and Brunson. I don't think that's a sustainable model. Could you offload a sign and trade with Bridges to a team where he's going to be their third best player and two guys in return? So you've got a deeper bench, which is what they need.

[Brock Vereen]

$156 million over four years.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. So that's like.

[Brock Vereen]

It's more.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, did I not do the math good? Oh, I swear I was good at math back in the day.

[Brock Vereen]

That's okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. So what is the number? Do it. Do the math quickly. 156 divided by 4.

[Brock Vereen]

Well, you said what 25 is going to be 100 times 4, so.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, yeah, that was bad math by me.

[Brock Vereen]

That's okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

Holy.

[Brock Vereen]

39 a year. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's embarrassing. Can we delete that? Oh, no, we're live. Damn, that's my bad. Anyways, that's way too much money for.

[Brock Vereen]

A lot of money. Also for somebody shooting 33% from three in the biggest game.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, I like again, I like Bridges, but I don't think you can pay your fourth. I mean, Austin Reeves is the third best guy making like 15 million a year. That's a great deal.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Your fourth best guy at 30 something million a year.

[Brock Vereen]

Will he be. Will he be on the next. Next year?

[Jason McIntyre]

I was thinking Hart in the bench.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

You can't give up five first round picks and bail. So I would.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah, like, or you could like, you know, just admit your losses. Like, okay, you're at the poker table, you're down bad.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just here's my car, here's my watch. I'm putting it.

[Brock Vereen]

What are you gonna do?

[Jason McIntyre]

My phone will not stop buzzing because I can't do math. I can already. I sense the text. Maybe it's a ghost texting me.

[Brock Vereen]

Oh, J. Mac. All right, let's stay in New York. You're just have had a revolving door at offensive coordinator in the last 20 years and you're breaking in a new one with Tanner Egg Strand. New quarterback Justin Fields though, is very high on the new coach.

[Christian Winfield]

Just talking to him, you can just tell he's really smart, he knows what he's doing. So, you know, I think he's very detailed with, you know, installing the plays and stuff like that, especially in the limited time that we have now. So like I said, he's putting a lot on. You know, the guy's Plate. Our plate. But I think in the long run It'll help us.

[Brock Vereen]

10 different offensive coordinators in the last 20 years. The last time they made a like a play the playoffs were in 2010. So what are your expectations for the jets offense this year? The new new offensive coordinator. They're 10, 20 years.

[Jason McIntyre]

Look at that list. Look at that list on the screen.

[Brock Vereen]

I know, it's crazy.

[Jason McIntyre]

Any of those guys gone on to anything and no, that's not looking for.

[Brock Vereen]

The packers than two seasons.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean Brian Schottenheimer is currently the Cowboys coach, but after that, Tony's Burano, Marty Morningwig, Chan Gailey. I mean this is John Morton, Jeremy Bates. Anyways, jets have a new quarterback. OC coach. Yes. Gm. Yes. How's that for continuity?

[Brock Vereen]

What do you think? It's going to be good. I mean look what the commanders did. They had all that last year.

[Jason McIntyre]

They did. They had Jaden Daniels. We have Justin fields on his 12 third team.

[Brock Vereen]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. I'm not. I'm not feeling great, Alex.

[Christian Winfield]

Damn it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Thanks for wedging in negative jets news at the end of the show to really make me feel good for you. What's he wearing? Does feels have a GoPro on the front of his camera there?

[Christian Winfield]

Maybe.

[Jason McIntyre]

That looks cool. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, all right, Alex with the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, that's the news and thanks for.

[Christian Winfield]

Stopping by the Herd lie news.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, coming up next, we just got a hold of some some awesome video of Travis Hunter today defensively at Jags practice. And we'll have a former NFL defensive back in studio to help us break it all down. That's next.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Alex Curry]

Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis, and together we're.

[Colin Cowherd]

Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

[Alex Curry]

You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

On Fox Sports Radio.

[Alex Curry]

And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive.

[Colin Cowherd]

Show on planet Earth.

[Alex Curry]

Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich.

[Alex Curry]

Wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Christian Winfield]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Back here on the herd. We have a great guest in a moment, but holy cow. Huge NBA news. A couple days after the Knicks had their best season this century, they just fired their head coach, Tom Thibodeau. He has been relieved of his duties. According to a report, team president Leon Rose is sitting on this grenade. Clearly for owner James Dolan, who got intoxicated, this is my guess. Obviously intoxicated by their best season in decades. Celebrity row filled up, great TV ratings. Knicks are a huge story around the league. They're back, baby. The coach, I mean, that's just the height of insanity. Listen, I know I was, this was like a month ago when things were sputtering before the Celtics. I was like, hey, listen, maybe we got to go get Michael Malone. Tibbs isn't working. And then Tibbs found his groove. How Tom got his groove back. You know, takes down Detroit, takes down the defending champion Celtics. And then I know they lost to the Pacers and they were favored, but still really firing Thibodeau. So I'm going to be honest, guys, this puts a lot of stuff in jeopardy because Thibodeau was just defended by Jalen Brunson in the exit interview. He's like, is that a real question? Firing Thibodeau? So that's Brunson's guy. What does this future hold for Carl Anthony Towns? Mikhail Bridges. We just talked with Alex. Is he going to get an extension? Oh, my gosh, let's Play the Brunson sound real quick. When asked about Thibodeau's future with an I feel like nobody takes more criticism.

[Alex Curry]

Than Tom, and this team obviously has.

[Christian Winfield]

Turned around during his tenure.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do you kind of feel that going.

[Christian Winfield]

Forward he's the same guy to lift.

[Jason McIntyre]

You guys the rest of the way and next level?

[Alex Curry]

Is that a real question right now?

[Jason McIntyre]

You just asked me if I believe that. If he's the right guy, yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks, guys.

[Jason McIntyre]

Come on. I mean, we have multiple guests on the show since then. One, like 30 minutes ago, Christian from the New York Daily News. It's like, you know what? They just had an amazing season. They keep accelerating around here. Conference finals, and you fire the coach. I don't know, guys. I mean, again, this just happened literally three minutes ago. So I'm a little shook and embarrassed that yesterday I said, hey, let's do nothing. Kind of a whiff there by J. Mac, but holy hell, the New York Knicks fire their coaching. You know, I guess Michael Malone's going to be on deck. Maybe they go out of pocket. You know, I'm just going to put this out there. LeBron got did a podcast with JJ Redick, and next thing you know, JJ Redick is the head coach of the Lakers. So you know who LeBron's doing a podcast with now, right? Steve Nash. And I know Nash sometimes lives in my area, but his family really likes it in New York because he was the Brooklyn Nets coach. And Steve Nash was run out by Kyrie Irving, who was an absolute jerk to him. Steve Nash next coach of the Knicks? I don't know. We'll see. Oh, my gosh. That would take you out of the running for Kevin Durant. I don't know. I mean, this is exciting. Hey, Cowherd's on vacation. We'll do a lot of Knicks for the rest of the week. Tom Thibodeau out as the Knicks coach. All right, let's bring in our guest. He played in the NFL. His dad played in the NFL. His brother played in the NFL. Brock Vereen, studio and football analyst for Big Ted Network. Brock, you're an NBA fan, obviously. Any thoughts on Thibodeau getting fired?

[Alex Curry]

I'm shocked, and quite honestly, I'm shocked that Cat has gotten any of the blame. I expect him to get more of the blame. But at the same time, when your two best friends players can't be on the court at the same time, what do you expect to happen? Right? Something needed to change that. I think the head coach would be the change. Absolutely not. But when your two best guys making all that money, doing everything, the faces of your franchise, when you're at your best and one of them is on the bench, it's an issue. Now, why I'll always defend Cat is because if you get a different version of the guy that you signed, that's one thing. But this is the same Cat we've seen his entire career. It's not his fault that he's played the same his entire career. So if you thought you were going to get more out of him, that's one thing. But for every complaint that has come against Katt in the past couple of weeks, they were the same complaints in Minnesota. Cat's Cat, I don't like any of the blame going to it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, this is. It's going to be a big story the rest of the week. But, hey, you're here to talk NFL. Let me ask you, Brock. So you're a draft pick of the Bears. I'm assuming you feel a connection to them. This Caleb Williams stuff, you know, up and down, first year, they get Ben Johnson, then the report comes out that, hey, Caleb Williams didn't want to go to Chicago. What do you make of all this?

[Alex Curry]

Well, first things first. Everything that Caleb was afraid of and nervous of happened. He was right. So whether you agree with him saying that information or his dad saying that information, fair. But he was right about everything. Now, Ben Johnson coming in, what does that change? He can learn to play on time. The biggest issue with Caleb Williams, even with the Heismanier in the year after, was he was at his best off script. That's not good. And college is fine because an athletic quarterback in college can outrun a defensive end, can outrun a defensive tackle, can outrun most linebackers. You're not outrunning Andrew Van Ginkel. You're not outrunning Aiden Hutchinson. So what can Ben Johnson do? He can get him to play on time. The talent is there. There's no question of the talent. It's between the ears. It's making sure that internal clock remains calm, it doesn't panic, and saying, caleb, Caleb, I understand up to this point you've been at your best outside of the pocket. We need to reign that in and let me scheme things up for you. I will tell you where the ball needs to go and then naturally that athleticism can come out. But that's the biggest issue with Caleb right now.

[Jason McIntyre]

So we had Albert Breer on earlier and I asked him, hey, rank the quarterbacks in that tough division, NFC north, you got a guy JJ McCarthy, who has yet to play an NFL game. We haven't seen him throw a football pass in for real since January of 2024. But go ahead, rank the quarterbacks in that division. I don't know that there's a lock. Number one, but let's hear what you got.

[Alex Curry]

J.J. of course, has to be four. I'll put Caleb at three. Number one, I'm putting Jordan Love, which means Jared Goff is that too. I'm a big Jordan Love guy. I'm a massive Jordan Love guy. I don't see last year as a step back. I just see it as he didn't take the leap. Right. Okay. You have one year of real starting experience. What happens next? The second year for any quarterback is always where that big jump comes. So it was delayed for Jordan Love because he sat for a little bit. No, he didn't make that massive leap. I'm a massive Jordan Love guy. I would take his crop of wide receivers over any anyone else's. Even Minnesota, even with the changes that Chicago has made. I understand what's going on in Detroit, but the fact that Green Bay does not have a true number one, I feel is their benefit. And that's why Jordan Love is so great. He can trust anyone on, on third and five. Where's the quarterback going to throw the football right as a db. That's the first thing you're thinking. Who is favored here? No one's favored. And that's going to benefit Jordan Love. Everyone is always open because no one is favored. Massive Jordan Love season incoming.

[Jason McIntyre]

Jordan Love over Jared Goff. That, that qualifies as a hot take. Well done.

[Alex Curry]

Now, not by a wide margin, but a firm margin.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Obviously you were a defensive back and this play just happened today at practice. Jacksonville Jaguars and their, their top pick, Travis Hunter making a pretty phenomenal play. Let's get it on the screen. Travis Hunter. And we think he caught this.

[Alex Curry]

Oh, he caught that for sure.

[Jason McIntyre]

We don't know. Hey, listen, we don't know what a catch is in the NFL still, but amazing tip. And this is why we're talking about him as a two way player. Athleticism. I mean, he is, he's a phenomenal talent. Do you think he should be playing two ways? I mean, when you were drafted, you know, there's a steep learning curve for defensive back and he's only in half the meetings. The other time he's in the offensive meetings where they really want him to shine. And frankly, you get paid higher or larger contract. Second contract.

[Alex Curry]

If you're a receiver, they're doing it perfectly. Offense is a steeper learning curve than defense. Why? Because defense, there's only so many concepts, right? Travis knows what cover two is. Travis knows what cover three is. Travis knows what man is. As a wide receiver, you have to know what the other wide receivers are thinking. You have to make sure you guys are seeing the coverage the same way that your quarterback is. There are so many adjustments and calls that immediately affect what you're doing. So, yes, they start him on offense. And don't let it get past you that he was the best receiver in this draft. If he did not play cornerback, he would be the number one receiver taken. So you look at the cornerback position, he's more natural at it. He is a natural corner. He is a natural ball hog. His skill set offensively leaks to the defensive side. His skill set defensively leaks to the offensive side. But because of that steeper learning curve, offensively, they're handling it perfect as they start the season. He'll probably start on offense. They can get a little creative on offense. Put him in the backfield, put him at the slot, put him at the wideout. And in order to do all of those things, he needs to start there immediately. Whereas defensively, coming on third down, and then maybe week six, week seven, we'll see if we can put more on your shoulders.

[Jason McIntyre]

So my big question with the two way for Travis Hunter is like, hey, man, go tackle Derrick Henry. Then you come off the field and now go run routes. On a drive like that is going to be nearly impossible, isn't it?

[Alex Curry]

But he's done it his whole life, right? If this was a situation where, say, Deion wanted to get creative and his last season at Colorado, hey, Travis, why don't you play both ways? That's one thing. He's always done this. So there's really no comparison. I know we, we compare it to champ a little bit. We call him Ohtani here and there, but he's been doing this his entire life at a high level, at the highest of levels on both sides of the football. There really is no comparison for Travis. He's going to be fine. He's going to excel.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do you think this, if you were advising him, would you say, hey man, you should play both ways? Or why don't you just get down the wide receiver first? Then maybe year two, you can add that on your plate? Or do you think, hey, go for it.

[Alex Curry]

If they didn't need help in the defensive backfield, that'd be one thing. But the team he's on needs help on both sides of the football. So you bring up the money standpoint. Yes. Wide receivers at the top end get paid a lot more than DBs. Well, I'm thinking if he can even contribute minimally on defense, which I don't think will be the case, I think he'll be a starter on both by the end of the year. But imagine what that contract negotiation is going to look like.

[Christian Winfield]

Yeah.

[Alex Curry]

Hey, what's the number one cornerback getting paid? What's the number one wide receiver going to get paid? Let's combine those numbers and see what it does to my bank account.

[Jason McIntyre]

That would be amazing. All right, we got about 30 seconds left. I got to ask you, your brother Shane played for Belichick. You know, again, we only got 30 seconds, but what do you make of this whole Belichick, North Carolina? I didn't ask about her. I didn't ask about the 20.

[Alex Curry]

Yeah, I would love to see Bill Belichick coach college. Ten years ago when it was a marathon, when you could bring in a one star, two star, develop them. That's where Belichick shined, right? Finding a late round Tom Brady, making him one of the best, helping him make one of the best, finding Julian Edelman a seventh round quarterback, letting him play offense, defense, then develop him. College football is a sprint now. I don't know how it'll go, but he's at the perfect place. North Carolina says just have a winning record, beat the rivals and we're happy. And he can do that great stuff.

[Jason McIntyre]

Brock Perin. We are back tomorrow. Probably going to talk a little nicks. I don't know, maybe.

[Colin Cowherd]

Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine. No. A box of fine wines. Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. You know, there are moments in life where you get to make a real difference. And this is one of them I want to tell you about. Folds of Honor. They provide educational scholarships to the spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. Think about that for a second. Families who've lost everything or are rebuilding their lives. And this organization steps in to make sure their kids can still go to college or a spouse can get the training they need to keep moving forward. Since 2007, they've awarded nearly 62,000 scholarships. Last year, about 7,000 qualified students didn't receive funding, and this year that number is expected to grow to nearly 10,000. So if you've been looking for a way to give back to do something really meaningful, this is it. Go to foldsofhonor.org give what you can. It all matters. Honor their sacrifice by educating their legacy. You've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official Whiskey of the Herd podcast. I love a good metaphor, so here's one for you. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhisky.com here's the green River Whiskey Raise your spirits. A product of Green River Distilling Co. Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly. BMW didn't just design an electric SUV. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With a BMW ix, you'll experience unmatched power, utility, spaciousness, versatility. My favorite feature cloud based navigation, monitors charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease. BMW lets performance do the talking and the scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail. This is an iHeart podcast.