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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
You're listening to an iHeart podcast. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience seamlessly integrates powerful performance, its bold, daring design, a refined interior, details cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric SUV compromise. Not one of them. T Mobile's stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel, because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid cart. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in six months if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright. Rocket Mortgage can help you turn your home equity into cash and that can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kid's college tuition, or pay off consolidated high interest debt. To learn more, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Here we go, our number three flying by on a Memorial Day Monday. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening. My buddy, Chris Broussard, back from the Indy 500. I watched the Indy 500 yesterday. First time I think it was ever a Spaniard had won the Indy 500. Let me tell you, the pit stops in the Indy 500. Fox did a great job. So it sold out for the first time in years and the sports had some controversy. The camera placement by Fox and it's the first time I've ever sat and watched like 90% of the Indy 500. I mean, I probably have earlier in my life. I don't know a lot of the current drivers, very international. But the camera placement by Fox, if you have any doubt, when they put that little lipstick camera just not on the infield but just on the interior of the track and those cars are flying around, it is intense. Did you watch any of it?
- [03:40]
Chris Broussard
I was at my daughter's volleyball tournament in Anaheim.
- [03:44]
Colin Cowherd
I got to brush up on my Indy 500 knowledge. Maybe we may take our show there.
- [03:48]
Chris Broussard
Maybe we could get a lipstick camera on you during the commercial breaks. I've been pushing this for, for like over a year now.
- [03:54]
Colin Cowherd
I move slow. I'm not nearly as dynamic as the Indy 500. By the way, the Knicks took a riveting Game 3. The Knicks took it over the Pacers in Indy thanks to an incredible comeback in the fourth quarter. And last night in Indiana really became a what kind of man are you type of game. For New York, two things happened. Number one, Carl Anthony Towne said, I'll show you what kind of man I am. I'm going to single handedly take over the fourth quarter. Listen, the dude, he has quarters like this. He averages 23 a game. In his career. When he was in his prime, Karl Anthony Towns always ended up near the top of those GM surveys they do. Who would you start a franchise with? He doesn't play any defense. He's a little quirky, but he can dominate games. I've been to three or four games where he was playing and he was the best player on the floor at some point in all those games. So. And the second thing that happened, and this does not happen very often for the Pacers, they lost their way offensively. So Halliburton end of the third quarter, beginning of the fourth. So end of third, beginning of the fourth, about four and a half minutes he was on the bench. In that time, a 15 point lead evaporated to four and then he comes back in and they just never quite felt the same again. Indiana, it's hard to get them off their offensive game, but even when the Knicks were down four, three, two points, it felt like they were in control. So the Pacers are a rhythm team and that they have the fastest pace in the league and they get out of their rhythm and all of a sudden you had Neesmith and other guys. McConnell trying to run the offense is like, bro, that, that's not it. This is Halliburton's offense. They lost their quarterback. They only shot 36% in the second half at home and Sh42%. That's the worst half of basketball for the Pacers. And just to give you in the playoffs, to give you another example, it flashed on the screen at one point in the first half, they had 14 fast break points. They were running the Knicks out of the arena in the second half, total two fast break points. Halliburton sits, they lose their rhythm, he comes back in, tries to kickstart it, and he never could. And what did we talk about last week? Whoever controls the tempo is going to win the games and, or the series. And the Knicks compressed it, slowed it down. And also, and this matters, the Knicks hit their last 15 free throws. I know that's not a glamorous headline, but remember game one, the Knicks had control and they, they were missing free throws. Open the door. This was the opposite. They were controlling tempo in game one. They lost tempo, missed free throws here late, they controlled tempo, hit free throws. And so they were a better road team than they were a home team. The road team has won every game in this series. So the Knicks slowed it down, hit the freebies. And I thought their defensive rotations were much better, especially when you had once Halliburton sat down for that stretch. And you see this in football all the time. You have momentum, you have a bad series, you have a fumble, there's a turnover, and you can never find the momentum again. It's hard. Momentum matters, and especially matters in playoff games. So we have ourselves a series. The Knicks blew game one. It kind of felt like they stole game three. Indiana felt like the better team in game two. We've got a series. And here's Tibbs in playoff basketball. I know you guys like roll your eyes when they say no lead is safe, but no lead is safe. Because I think with, with the three point shot, people make up ground quickly, pace the game, make up ground quickly. You see comebacks all the time. And if you let up, just A little bit. That's. That's what happens. Okay, so this is a story you may be wondering. I don't think it's going to make a big deal either way. But Aaron Rodgers, according to Jeremy Fowler, there are people in the NFL, and Jeremy Fowler works at espn. Very good reporter. He is saying there are people in the NFL, many, that believe Aaron Rodgers is waiting on Minnesota. I don't know that to be true, but I will say this. Aaron loves to make people think he's a mystery and the media can't figure him out. And he does that because it invalidates us. And we're the one group of people he can't control. He's worshiped by football, people he loved by teammates, the one group he can't control us. And so he wants to invalidate us. And he's not J.D. salinger. It's not that mysterious. The Steelers are a shaky fit and Aaron knows it. He doesn't want to offend Mike Tomlin. It may be if he wants to play his best spot. But they can't figure out offense. I've gone over this a million times. They're tone deaf to offense. They just, they. I think they're now making moves just to make moves. Let's just move off George Pickens and let's get a pick and let's overspend for DK Metcalf, and they're just making moves to make moves. So there are reports, and I don't care about his personal life, that Aaron's personal life, he's going through some turbulence. You wish him well. I don't want to get into any speculation there, but I just think Aaron is too smart to think the Steelers are a good fit. The O line's been a wreck for years. The odds coordinator position, they've run through them. They lost Najee Harris, their left tackle. And by the way, it does matter. He went from Green Bay, which has always had an offensive culture. They always get quarterback right. They always have offensive coaches. They always have good offensive lines. Green Bay does offense right, and they've been doing it right for 30 years. Pittsburgh does defense right, and the only two times they've done offense right, they had Terry Bradshaw and Big Ben. And in between that, they're not the same franchise. They win games, they don't win big games. And that's what Pittsburgh's going through right now. They've been a bottom 10 total offense six years in a row. And that's hard to do when you look at the two New York franchises and Carolina and some bad offense in this league and the Bears. So the Vikings makes a ton of sense. Great, brilliant offensive head coach and play caller. They play indoors. He knows the division. They have Justin Jefferson. They upgraded their offensive line in the off season. There's also a story that's interesting. So Aaron was apparently on some podcast and said when asked about the Saints, because we don't know exactly what the Saints are doing, is it going to be Spencer Rattler? You know, And Aaron Rodgers was quoted saying, yeah, I'm too old. I don't want to live in Louisiana. Sorry. So what that means is where Aaron plays matters to Aaron. He is thinking about it. He doesn't want to live in New Orleans. So that's another reason indoors knows the division, nfc. He moved over to a defensive culture, playing outdoors in the Northeast with the jets, and it was a mess. Aaron doesn't want to do that again. Jeff Pearlman came on last week. He wrote a book about Brett Favre. And Aaron was all through the book. And Favre didn't treat Aaron very well. And I grew to kind of respect what Aaron had to go through, but he made a point about where Aaron's played. And the fit is really crucial when you consider Aaron's personality. I just think over time, especially being.
- [11:37]
Chris Broussard
In a small Midwestern town surrounded by the Midwestern quaintness of Green Bay, I.
- [11:44]
Colin Cowherd
Think Aaron Rodgers really started to believe I'm the smartest guy in the room. I know everything. I am very intelligent.
- [11:49]
Chris Broussard
I know more than the coaches, I.
- [11:50]
Colin Cowherd
Know more than my teammates. I know more than this fan base. And again, if you can contain that in Green Bay, Wisconsin, it's one thing you're treated as a God. But once you go national, once you go to a different franchise, it doesn't really play out that well. All right, Caitlin Clark, as also reported earlier today, is going to be out for. What was it, J. Mack? Was it two weeks?
- [12:12]
Chris Broussard
They're calling it two weeks with a.
- [12:14]
Colin Cowherd
Quad strain that was not visible during the telecast or the game.
- [12:20]
Chris Broussard
Yeah, listen, hey, we'll see what's going on. Let's see if she shows up at Pacers, Knicks tomorrow, maybe heavily bandaged, maybe with a heating pad to watch the game. Obviously, that's a huge one, you know, for. For Pacers and Knicks, and Caitlin Clark's been in a lot of the games, you know, friendly with the. With the team.
- [12:37]
Colin Cowherd
I was sitting last night with a couple of guys that go to college. They're sports fans, they're in college. And we were just talking about A bunch of stuff. And one of them loved the ufc. One of them was a huge hockey fan and one of them was in a frat, a Big ten school. He was in a frat. And we, we got into this conversation about Caitlyn Clark and some people in the room were sports fans, some were not most, at least the, the, the young boys were. And he said, he said in my frat, he said literally if Caitlin Clark was playing, that's what all the guys wanted to watch in the frat. Now I mean, what does that tell you for, you know, 23 year old guys? They like their gambling, they like their football, they like their ufc. He said, no question. If Caitlin was on and there were choices, that's what people wanted to watch. And I think that's the Taylor Swift effect. Like people that you would not see 55 year old, 60 year old women wouldn't normally go to watch a young pop star. And then they go. I remember when Shania Twain was getting people that didn't like country music to country music concerts. And I think that's what Taylor Swift is doing. She is getting people that just traditionally don't watch that league. They may be casual basketball fans, but the phenomena, that's what Tiger did with golf. There are a lot of people that didn't play golf and don't play golf, but they found Tiger fascinating. And then when you can bring the casuals in and even non fans in, I mean, it's one thing to bring, bring casuals in. A lot of people, a lot of great athletes have done that. You know, you're a casual basketball fan, but you love Steph. But to bring in like non basketball fans or people that don't watch a sport or a league, that is Tiger and Caitlin. People were watching the NBA before Michael. They just didn't watch it as much. I mean, what she's doing to the WNBA is remarkable.
- [14:27]
Chris Broussard
Pretty impressive. Colin, I will add, you kind of buried the lead there. You're hanging out with frat guys, you move away from me and now you're hanging out with frat boys. What's going, are you going to wear a tank top to work tomorrow? What's happening?
- [14:37]
Colin Cowherd
Well, sometimes you got to show the gun. Show out a little bit. Feeling good about myself. Chris Broussard's around the corner live. It's the herd. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit Card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit Card is pretty much no brainer. And right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again, go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web bank in order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus. Your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts. This content is not Investment Adv. Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit Card terms, see Rates and Fees. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance, while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of Sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home and equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you work so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 $178,000 average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing data. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Chris Broussard's gonna be joining us. Little over 10 minutes. Good game last night. We've had three really good Knicks Spacers game. Knicks had game one and blew it. Game two, Indy game three. Pacers have it and the Knicks steal it. So it's, you know, these are close games. I will say. J. Mac, the one thing about OKC in Minnesota, I was looking at a stat here. OKC of the four teams left is the one team. You get a different team on the road than home. And that I think a lot of that is on age. They're basically the deep young team and young players rotational dudes away from the comfort of home. We see this in college basketball like you see big swings on college basketball teams home and away. You're dealing with 19 year old guys. So it's funny. OkC average 123 and a half at home, 105 on the road. Like that's a different basketball team. Here's J. Mac with the news.
- [19:59]
J. Mac
No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.
- [20:04]
Chris Broussard
All right, Colin, you were all excited for the with the first Spanish driver ever to win the race, continuing his hot streak. Here he is.
- [20:15]
Colin Cowherd
It makes this extra special that I'm.
- [20:17]
Chris Broussard
The first Spanish driver to win it. But honestly, if I was the 50th Spanish driver to win it, I would be as happy as I'm now and as proud as I'm now.
- [20:26]
Colin Cowherd
I learned something yesterday. The track was cold, and that had a huge effect on the drivers. I would not have thought that. So they talked in great deal. It was a hard track, the pit stops were crazy, one car caught on fire. But overall it's, you know, it's an international sport. And I found the broadcast pretty captivating stuff.
- [20:47]
Chris Broussard
Yeah, big, big Sunday in Indy with the race and then, of course, Pacers, Knicks. Super exciting time for the city. Except the Caitlin Clark injury. That's the only down news. Let's move on. Hey, listen, Colin, I lifted the Aaron Rodgers band last week. What a mistake that was. Third straight hour with more Aaron Rodgers news. Colin, because he's doing. He did a podcast over the weekend, was asked about retiring a Packer, a Green Bay Packer. Here's what he said. I've thought about that and I don't.
- [21:14]
Colin Cowherd
Understand what the, what the reason for that is. You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most of my, my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the, the cool thing about it. But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the packers eyes? There's a lot of love for me and how I feel about the team. If I do or if I don't, I don't think it should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it, I probably would. How about that?
- [21:49]
Chris Broussard
What's wrong with this guy? Well, okay, so if you're not going to retire a Packer, you certainly are not retiring as a Jet. Nobody remembers you. So what, are you going to just retire as an NFL? Why does he consistently do nonsense like this? He's trying to sound all erudite and I'm philosophical about this college. What does it matter if I retire at Packer or not? Like, really?
- [22:12]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think it's like that Facebook high school relationship. It sounds better than a reality. When, when, remember they were tired of Aaron, like Green Bay was tired of Favre. And I, and I've, and I've told you this, that I have always supported Far and Aaron Rodgers. I think I call it the Green Bay quarterback theory, is that if you go look at Farb and Aaron Rodgers, they couldn't be two totally different people. They became the Same guy, Precious, using leverage, passive aggressive, threatening retirement. And then both went to the jets and it was ugly. The difference is Favre then reinvented his career with the Vikings, who by the way, that's the team that reportedly Aaron's most interested in. But I do think that because you don't have an owner, you're not ultimately held as accountable as Tom Brady was by Robert Kraft if he was going to be difficult not saying he was, or Peyton Manning by the late Robert Ursay. You don't have an owner. It's the smallest town. You can't go to the grocery store. You are really the biggest player. You're the biggest person in the state. I mean, as big as Brady was in New England. You got the Celtics, you got the Red Sox, you got the governor, you got the politicians. It's a big city with a lot of stuff, big corporations. You get to a point where you are worshiped like no other sports market in the country. And I think it gets, I think it. I mean, I think that would do that to anybody. Far started doing things that were like, not discreet and really bad judgment. And Aaron, I think is smart, but lacks a certain self awareness because he has been in this tunnel of love and worship for like 15, 20 years.
- [23:48]
Chris Broussard
The problem with this whole like who I'm retiring as nonsense is I don't think you have a choice. Aaron Rodgers, you, you won the bulk of your games, MVPs Super bowl in Green Bay. That's how you're remembered. You can't decide, well, I'm going to retire as a Jet. Like, it doesn't work like that. Nobody thinks of him as a Jet. I mean, I'm trying to think of an example where it would be dicey. Even Joe Montana, he couldn't say, I don't like what the Niners did to me. I'm retiring a chief. Sorry, pal, it doesn't work like that. You were dominant with the Niners. That's how people remember you. Would you agree with me? Am I right here?
- [24:22]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. I mean, listen, Aaron, if he retired today, would not be the professional. First professional icon that had a choppy ending. Go look at where Ewing ended up. Or Michael Jordan with the Wizards, Johnny Unitis.
- [24:36]
Chris Broussard
Those are still guys. Like Patrick Ewing, isn't it? Michael Jordan wasn't.
- [24:39]
Colin Cowherd
That's right.
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Chris Broussard
That's how you're being remembered.
- [24:40]
Colin Cowherd
Nobody's going to remember Aaron's brief stay in New York. It just, it's like if you go back and look at the Wizards and mj, the players didn't like him. It was rough. Like it was rough. They didn't win. Nobody cares. Aaron's legacy is set in my head.
- [24:58]
Chris Broussard
I'm trying to think of one. So Tom Brady won in New England, goes to Tampa and wins also. But I'm sorry, Tom would admit this. He's a New England patriot. Like that's how you're remembered, right? You can't just decide, hey man, I don't want to retire a Packer. I don't think it works like that, does it?
- [25:15]
Colin Cowherd
Well, it's, I think, I think if Aaron retires tomorrow, is anybody going to be surprised? I would rather. I mean once you get the trophy, once you get the money, and once you have more than enough fame. I mean Aaron, every time I see him, he's, you know, he's in shorts and a T shirt. Like he's not out there at gl. He's not at the, at the New York Met gala. Like Aaron pretty much lives his own thing and does his own. He's a very private guy right in his Malibu conclave. So enclave. So my take with Aaron is I don't know what the value other than getting hurt. I mean other. They don't. Steelers don't have a left tackle other than getting hurt. I don't see the fact he doesn't need the money, he doesn't need the fame. His legacy is set. I, I'm just saying if I was Aaron at this point, I just retired, I'd be, I'd be comfortable with who, what I established.
- [26:06]
Chris Broussard
How about this? Colin in the NBA, LeBron and Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, they're all old at the end of their career. Nobody wants them to leave. Everybody wants them to stay. The league needs them. Aaron Rodgers, I think people at this point are like, eh, I don't really care what he does. He's not a factor. He's not a superstar now. Sorry.
- [26:22]
Colin Cowherd
Well, that's because there's very few LeBron's and Steph Curry entering the league. Because the NBA draft is full of 19 year olds. The college draft gives you two to three superstar quarterbacks every couple years. So there's this pipeline. I mean we've talked about this. The NFL gets about 15 wide receivers a year from college who can play immediately. So because you have to stay in college, college for three years and most guys stay for four, you get a, a microwavable ready to play plug and play star and that's. And so you can be replaced much more easily. I mean very rarely do you have a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers this year that you're like, wow, they don't have a quarterback in the room. I mean, Cleveland's got five. Oh, everybody's got at least competent veteran leadership in the room. The Steelers are an outlier. So you're just so much more. Not that you're Lamar Jackson's replaceable, but the pipeline. College football to the NFL is much stronger than college basketball to the NBA.
- [27:25]
Chris Broussard
Final story Colin is Luka Doncic was spotted over the weekend at a Real Madrid game. Now, if you glance quickly at the screen, I don't know, you wouldn't know which one it is because apparently he's skinny. Luka Doncic reportedly now, this is based on guys who are analyzing the photos, has slimmed down. I'm seeing a little love handle action there on the side. Not that it matters. It's Luca. It's freaking May. Who cares? But do you think he looks skinnier there?
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Colin Cowherd
What.
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Chris Broussard
What are your thoughts?
- [27:51]
Colin Cowherd
No.
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Chris Broussard
Yeah, I. I don't see it either, but that was like. Well, I don't.
- [27:54]
Colin Cowherd
Even at the game, I don't think he looks bad. I just think he looks like Luca. I mean, Luca's thick, he's sturdy. That's what he looks like.
- [28:02]
Chris Broussard
Built like a tank and, yeah, a bit of a soft tank, but it's not like he's out there wearing medium shirts to show off the guns like your boy does. You know me all weekend. Tank tops, mediums. That's how I roll.
- [28:14]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, J. Mac with a news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. Let's go to Chris Broussard, co host, first things first, joining us live from New York. So, you know, it was. I was talking about this earlier. I'm not surprised. Carl Anthony Towne had a big game. I mean, he's. He's a gifted offensive player, but it was interesting. Halliburton leaves for about four minutes end of the third, start of the fourth, and Indiana just lost their mojo totally offensively. He comes back, they kind of find it. But it's interesting. Chris, My interpretation was Indiana is not just about talent. They're really a pace team. They're a rhythm team. And when Halliburton, end of third, early fourth, was out for four and a half minutes, Chris, I don't think they ever found their rhythm again. And so I'm not discrediting the Knicks, their rotational defense was better, but some of this was. It showed. It illustrated how valuable Halliburton is to the pace of this offense.
- [29:19]
J. Mac
Yeah, absolutely. Look, like you said, give the Knicks credit, particularly Carl Anthony Towns was scoring the 20 points in the fourth quarter, hit the threes, attacked the basket, got to the free throw line. So they deserve credit. But you're absolutely right. And what you're acknowledging is how great Tyrese Halliburton is. And I was speaking with an agent about this this weekend and he was bringing up that Halliburton doesn't always lead the team in scoring. I said, this dude is a true point guard and he doesn't have to lead the Pacers in scoring to be their best player. He controls the tempo, he sets the pace, he gets the ball to the right guys. He determines for the most part very smartly when he's going to be aggressive as a scorer, when he's going to sit back and get the ball elsewhere.
- [30:08]
Colin Cowherd
He.
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J. Mac
We're not used to seeing true point guards anymore, Colin. We're used to seeing the point guards that score first and pass second. Jalen Brun, and I'm not even disrespecting them, they're great, a lot of them, but Jalen Brunson's, exhibit A and Steph Curry and Damian Lillard. So a lot of them are phenomenal players. But when we see a Tyrese Halliburton, we almost think he only gives you 20 points a game. Magic Johnson was a career 19 point scorer. I'm not saying Tyrese is Magic, but he is a true point guard who can lead the league in assists and give you 9 to 11 a game and then also get your 20, 20, 18 to 24 points. He's a great player. He is truly a phenomenal player.
- [30:53]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And again, it is a rhythm team and they lost their rhythm and they couldn't find it. You know, it's interesting about the Knicks. I was saying the Knicks actually, you know exactly what they need. So they need somebody. They don't shoot threes particularly well. And because Brunson and Cat Chris are poor defenders, it's hard to have them on the floor simultaneously. So if they move off Cat, who of course has a market, you keep Robinson for defense, you would say, okay, we need a three ball shooter, a secondary score who doesn't need the ball in his hands. We need some length because we're losing Cat and a willing defender. Is that not Kevin Durant? Check, check, check, check, check. I mean, they don't. Is it not, Is it not kd?
- [31:45]
J. Mac
Look, I, I love KD with the Knicks, with Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson. I, I look he's better than Cat, I'm not denying that. But I'm not at this point in their careers. I'm not giving up Cat for KD because Cat rebounds better neatly. You know, he's. Cat gets in foul trouble. He's not a great defender, obviously. But I just, I'm kind of done with the KD experiments where he has to be like the first guy. I mean, I get Brunson would be the first guy. But to think I'm gonna get rid of Cat and bring KD in here and the Knicks are gonna be the best team in the East. I'm not really going there again, if I can get him without losing Cat, then certainly, you know, and that'd be a nice big three because KD would be the perfect piece with them. But what I do, Colin, if the Knicks go ahead and lose this series, I think what they need to do, and I said this on the show before about Tibbs, you know, job security certainly keep Tibbs, no question about that. But the Knicks need to look at how do we make our offense less Brunson centric and more get more. Like when you look at the Pacers, they move the ball, they, the players are moving. The Knicks are stationary for the most part. And what that does is you don't know which Pacer is going to have the hot hand. Could be Halliburton, could be Siakam, could be Neesmith or Nemhard or you know, somebody, the big guy, you know, so it could be a number of their guys. That's where the Knicks need to get because Miles Bridges is really good at score. Josh Hart can have his moments and Og Anunoby can score. So I just think they need to become a little more egalitarian in their offense because look, they're certainly not better without Brunson, but notice their two game turning runs. Game one, when they took control, right, the 140 run with Brunson on the bench last night, 16 to 7 run into the third quarter when Brunson's out to early in the fourth when he comes in, they go on a 167 run to get back into the game from down 13. So it just shows you they have the depth that usually Tibbs doesn't use. And they also have other guys that can score the ball when needed to. So I think they should look at that.
- [34:12]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. You just pointed out two things that are true. Brunson doesn't always elevate others and he's a poor defender. Halliburton's a better defender and elevates everybody, but not as great a score. And I think if you look at the Knicks, they're a byproduct of Brunson's game. You taught me this years ago. Your game is your game. If Brunson's your point guard, then you have to have a catch and shoot shooter because he. And you got to have somebody that can be like a Klay Thompson in his prime. Somebody that can watch him and just get it, be the ball in the corner and shoot. You can't have another. That's why Brunson and Luca did not work, because they're both ball centric, whereas Halliburton is the opposite. He, he, I mean, he'll just go into distribution mode, pace and distribution mode for like eight minutes and you look up and he hits maybe one, three. So it's. The Pacers have had 10 different players lead them in scoring this season. Siakam, I think, led him in scoring for the regular season. So I do think the Pacers are a product of Halliburton style. He's their quarterback and the Knicks are a Brunson style. And so you have to work from there. I want to go to the other series. That's interesting. Now there's two. You know that depth can be overrated in the playoffs. It can be a little overrated. Oklahoma City is the only of the four teams left, Chris, that you get a literally different team on the road. 105 on the road, 123 at home. My take is their youth, their young players are not the same playoff games on the road. They look at times overwhelmed, which gives me the thought that, oh, Minnesota's got a heartbeat in this series. Do you believe that today?
- [35:52]
J. Mac
Yeah, I think that's a great point. You know, I've been skeptical about OKC because of their youth all season. Like you said, we all know role players don't typically play as well on the road. And that's what you're pointing to. Minnesota absolutely has a shot because they didn't just win game three. They made a statement. College 42 points, leading by 45. Like that does not happen to OKC. And this, this group for OKC has been in the playoffs two years. All right? They've lost seven games in those two years by a total of 49 points. They've only had two losses in their playoff history. You know, this group where by double figures and both of them were 12 points. So they have never been beaten by more than 12 points until Saturday night. So that is a mental statement that Minnesota made that, hey, we can impose our will on you. And the key for Minnesota is not to turn the ball over, which they did in games one and two. They didn't do that in game three. That didn't allow OKC to get out and score in transition. And then you had Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle play well together. That's the first time this series those two have played well together in the same game. If they can get that in game four, they can even up this series. And then we really got something to look forward to.
- [37:20]
Colin Cowherd
All right, Chris Brussard, he's on after us. First things first at the Indy 500, the last Thursday and Friday shows. As always, it was great to watch. Good seeing you, buddy.
- [37:29]
J. Mac
Thanks, Colin. See you.
- [37:31]
Colin Cowherd
You know, it's interesting, J. Mac, you play still play a lot of basketball. I really think the Knicks and two things can be true. You can love a player like Jalen Brunson and realize there are two liabilities with him. He has to have the ball in his hands and he's a poor defender. And those are both true. That's why if you told me, who would I take to lead a franchise, I would take Halliburton. I can. Because with a new roster construction and aprons, you don't get multiple stars. Meaning Halliburton can give me 20. He's not the closer, obviously, but he's a better. He's longer, he's a better defender, and he's a much better distribution pace guy. And so it goes against what everybody believes because in basketball in our history, the closers the man. But the league has changed, right? Like it used to be four years ago. Just get three closers. Get Durant, Steph Clay. Get closers. You witness, you can't do that anymore. So the league is moving into a direction of get. You can have a closer, but the perfect team is a. I think. This is why I think now Indiana doesn't match up great with okc, but if you had to choose Halliburton or I think 90% of fans would take Brunson over Halliburton. But my take is defense matters in the playoffs. One's a better distributor, one's a better score, but the other can score. And I think the length of Halliburton and his herky jerky style, I think he's just hard. And so I. Again, that's a tough one because. I know, but because of. I mean, as we're talking about Brunson, we Acknowledge like, you could put anybody in the league. You could put with Halliburton, any player would work. Giannis, any player. You could not put Luka with Brunson, you're like, well, they both need the ball.
- [39:21]
Chris Broussard
Wait a minute.
- [39:22]
Colin Cowherd
You couldn't put Harden.
- [39:24]
Chris Broussard
Brunson got to, I think the conference.
- [39:27]
Colin Cowherd
Finals in Dallas, they didn't work. I mean, they, they scored. But they were both terrible defenders. Well, yeah, so, so you couldn't put Kyrie or Harden with Brunson. You couldn't, you couldn't put everybody with Halliburton.
- [39:41]
Chris Broussard
Well, the interesting thing with Brunson yesterday, and, and it's tough for Knicks fans to talk about Colin. He was awful. He was terrible in that game. He sat out, I believe, the first 10 minutes of the fourth quarter when they came back in a must win season on the line and he was on the bench. And listen, to do that without your star is a little weird. I don't know what to make of it. Maybe it's one game.
- [40:02]
Colin Cowherd
No, no, no. The two biggest runs by New York had been when Brunson's on the bench. Yeah, the 14 minute period. The Pacers went into the tank. Halliburton's on the bench. So the answer is in front of you. Get over your emotion. No, no, no, no, no. That's not debatable. No, no, no, it's not. It's two games. Brunson and Cat can't be on the floor together.
- [40:23]
Chris Broussard
But see the problem, the counter. And I'm going to defend my guy, Brunson. Knicks don't sniff this round without Brunson. Obviously, he's an elite point guard. They needed him. He's the most clutch player in the league this season.
- [40:32]
Colin Cowherd
That's right. That's right. Kirk Cousins can win you a division, but he's a liability for a championship. There is a ceiling with Brunson. Small, can't defend and has to have the ball.
- [40:44]
Chris Broussard
So this is tough. And again, people are not going to want to hear this.
- [40:47]
Colin Cowherd
Take the fan hat off.
- [40:48]
Chris Broussard
Okay. Fan end for watching the. The fourth quarter. They can't play Towns and Brunson in crunch time together because they get annihilated. That's two terrible defenders. So who do you move off of? If you replace Towns with a. With a great defender, can you keep. Can you still.
- [41:05]
Colin Cowherd
It's easy. You're. You're talking yourself out of easy stuff. You keep Brunson, he's the quarterback, but he is absolutely as great as he is.
- [41:15]
Chris Broussard
You.
- [41:15]
Colin Cowherd
He is a liability on the defensive end. So you can't play him with Cat. Siakam and Halliburton are magic together. Just ask yourself this. Everybody works with Mahomes. Everybody. Not everybody works with Tua because he can't throw a deep ball in bad weather. Everybody works with Halliburton. He works with every player. Brunson works with a guy that you couldn't play him with Harden, Kyrie, he needs the ball. And you also have to put him in a backcourt with guys that can defend, because he doesn't. He'll get picked on.
- [41:52]
Chris Broussard
This sounds a little like early Steph Curry. Specifically when they lost in 2016. Remember, as well, Curry can't defend guys. He led the league in steals. I know. Oh, steals don't matter.
- [42:03]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, that's not that. No, but again, you're answering your question. What did the team have? Draymond, best defender in the league. Clay, best guard defender in the league, and Andre Iguodala. So the warriors acknowledged Steph's liability. So we went and got Iggy off the bench. Clay, they had three elite defenders. So that's what the Knicks. The problem is, the Knicks are like, we need the scoring with Brunson, but Cat's a terrible defensive player. So that's why Indiana's gonna win this series. Indiana's just going to be able to. Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's. Sure. Yeah. They're gonna win game four.
- [42:39]
Chris Broussard
So quick note, I saw somebody called it up. Apparently, the Pacers have outshot their opponent in every playoff game from three except the last game, where they were 5 for 25 last night. What if this has been an incendiary run from deep? I think they're shooting 40% from three in the playoffs, and all of a sudden they cool down over the next few games.
- [42:59]
Colin Cowherd
They're not gonna cool down. The teams are what your game is your game. They'll get hot. They're at home. They had injured.
- [43:06]
Chris Broussard
I'm reaching, baby. I need my Knicks in the final.
- [43:08]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, but it's. It's. It's hard for New York fan. It's like, well, we couldn't be here without Brunson. Absolutely. But that means you're a playoff team. Like, there are certain players, like, they create stability, they create leadership. Dak Prescott, good enough to win a division. You put him in a playoff, you're all of a sudden like, oh, he's like the seventh best quarterback minimum in the playoff. So Brunson provides a closer. He provides leadership, intelligence, work ethic. But There are holes in the game and they're just ask yourself, when LeBron was in his prime, even ball centric Kyrie could play with him, Wade could play with him. And Wade wasn't a great fit. Everybody could play with LeBron. I would say Jason Tatum. Well, no, Jason Tatum, he fits on every team. Klay Thompson, in his prime, he fit on every team. D. Wade played with Shaq, he played with LeBron, he played with Bosh, he played with D. Wade could play with anybody. Players that need the ball in their hands and slow down the offense can't play with everybody. I'm telling you, Halliburton is one of those six guys in the league now maybe there's four. You could put him on every team in the league and the team would be better every. If you put him on Minnesota, they're the champs.
- [44:22]
Chris Broussard
I think we need a top, a new top 10 list. Best players in the league. Is Halibutton on and Brunson off?
- [44:27]
J. Mac
Is that what you're saying?
- [44:28]
Chris Broussard
Yeah.
- [44:28]
Colin Cowherd
No, no, I'm saying you could put a. Halliburton. Halliburton. Ant Randle Gobert is the NBA champ. Indiana may be the NBA champ. Oklahoma City, Halliburton to sga and that bench hall, you put Brunson on Oklahoma City. Well, you're taking the ball at SGA's hands. What good is that? So, I mean, again, I like Jalen Brunson, but Halliburton is. Dude, he lubricates every team in the league. Tomorrow you're looking at a special player. We break it's the herd. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, that's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. 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So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web bank. In order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction Posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk for more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit Card terms, see Rates and Fees. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL. Dr. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you. Today, American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you work so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org number 3030 $178,000. Average equity is based on internal Rocket mortgage servicing data. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Want to thank Chris Broussard, an 18 year NFL vet, Matt Hasselback for joining us on this Memorial Day Monday. We talked a little bit about Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers said a couple of different things as he was at some public setting. A he's not going to play for the Saints. He didn't want to live in Louisiana. Showing that like where he plays matters a lot. It's not just about playing. He wants the right fit. That's why Minnesota is interesting to a lot of people. Secondly, he said he wouldn't be opposed to playing in Green Bay. If they asked, he'd probably go. So it tells you he doesn't have, you know, he doesn't necessarily have to be the starter. He's telling you, he's telling you he doesn't need to play forever. We saw an earlier report where he'd be willing to play for $10 million. So it sounds like Aaron, he wants to get comfortable. He would be comfortable according to reports in Minnesota. He knows the division. He acknowledged at this public event he would be comfortably being a backup in Green Bay. I mean those are Aaron's words. Those are not mine. So that's kind of a revelation that he would be willing to go back to Green Bay. He said if they asked, I would go. That's, that's kind of a game changer to me. It shows me where his head's at, where he understands New York was bumpy. He by saying, quote saying I'm not going to play in New Orleans. I don't want to live in Louisiana. He's telling you where he plays matter, that it matters. That's a huge part of it. That's why the Pittsburgh thing never felt right to me. Here's Hasselbeck earlier on Aaron's options.
- [50:37]
Chris Broussard
The quarterback free agency situation, when you're at the end of your career, it's.
- [50:41]
J. Mac
Very similar to musical chairs.
- [50:43]
Chris Broussard
There's only a certain amount of chairs.
- [50:45]
J. Mac
When the music stops, the music stops. And so I've been saying this for a long time.
- [50:49]
Chris Broussard
I believe I said it on your show.
- [50:51]
J. Mac
Aaron Rodgers is going to be with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
- [50:54]
Colin Cowherd
It needs to be mutual acceptance and.
- [50:57]
Chris Broussard
The music's about to stop soon here and he's going to have to sit.
- [51:00]
Colin Cowherd
Down or get out. It's. It just feels like it would just be, it would be better than the jets season, but nothing resembling his Green Bay career. It just, I mean, I think they're a six to seven win team with their current quarterbacks mostly on defense and coaching. They would be an eight win team if Aaron Rodgers showed. They go from six to eight and you say, well, he's much better than Will Howard. He's not younger, he's not cheaper, he can be prickly. He doesn't want to necessarily. We don't know if it works with Arthur Smith. They don't have the run game. I don't. I think Najee Harris is a big loss. I think it's a big game for the Chargers. I think it's a, it'll be a noticeable game loss for the Steelers. He won't have the run game. I think the running back for the Jets Breeze hall is better than the current running back situation for Pittsburgh. I think the jets left tackle situation today is better than the Steelers left tackle situation. So I, I think Pittsburgh feels like a bunch of nonsense and a really bumpy 7 to 8 win team and the risk of getting hurt again.
- [52:04]
Chris Broussard
Hey, can I give you a name from your list of four that I would swap in for? Geno Smith, Debo Samuel to watch.
- [52:13]
Colin Cowherd
I thought about that, I thought about that last year.
- [52:15]
Chris Broussard
Terry McLaurin was bottled up in a couple games. Yeah, they didn't have a counter punch. And I just wonder. Kingsbury, smart guy, knows how to scheme dudes open. And I think Debo could be in for a super clutch year because remember when, when McLaurin was taken away, it was like, hey Jaden, make a play. Just go run wild and get us third or fourth down. Now you've got Debo, who's a great yak guy. I think that's a huge sneaky big pickup from Washington.
- [52:39]
Colin Cowherd
I, I agree. My only concern is Debo can get dinged up because of his style and so like is he playing 11 games? If you told me today, 14 games yes, 11 no. And it usually takes time to kind of work him into like an offense. But I thought Debo was the one that I, I thought, I mean, I think George Pickens actually will help Dallas. I just think that my ceiling is so low. On their overall roster and the running back room and the like. All right, we're done. First things first, around the corner, Matt Hasselbeck, Chris Broussard, J. Mack. We'll see you tomorrow. Balancing work, family and education isn't easy, but American Public University makes it possible with online courses, monthly start dates and flexible schedules. APU is designed for busy professionals who need education that fits their lives. And Affordability matters, too. APU offers the Opportunity Grant, giving students 10% off undergraduate and master's level tuition, helping you reach your goals without breaking the bank. Plus, they provide career services and 24. 7 mental health support at no extra cost. Visit Apu Apus Edu to learn more. That's Apu Apus Edu looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a Paychex company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset your people. Are you ready to become a better leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leadership leaders BMW didn't just design an electric SUV. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With a BMW ix, you'll experience unmatched power, utility, spaciousness, versatility. My favorite feature cloud based navigation, monitors charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease. BMW lets performance do the talking and the scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail. The following heartwarming yet informative scene is brought to you by Trust and Will Son. Your grandpa and I used to work on this car together and when I'm gone, I want you to have it.
- [55:18]
J. Mac
Wow.
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Colin Cowherd
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Counts.
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Now let's let the engine do the talking. Am I right? Start your will@trustandwill.com use offer code, count for 20 off and make it count. Trust and Will is an online estate planning service. For details, see trustandwill.com you're listening to an iHeart podcast.