Hour 3 - Caleb Williams

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3: Caleb Williams
Release Date: July 30, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest: Eric Mangini
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, former NFL coach and analyst Eric Mangini joins host Colin Cowherd to delve into pressing topics within the NFL, including player contracts, team strategies, and emerging talents. The discussion offers valuable insights for sports enthusiasts looking to stay informed about the latest developments in professional football.

Key Discussions

1. High-Profile Player Contracts and Team Dynamics

Timestamp: [04:02] – [06:07]

The conversation kicks off with Colin addressing recent contract developments involving players like Terry McLaurin and Trey Hendrickson. Eric Mangini provides an in-depth analysis of Hendrickson's situation with the Cincinnati Bengals.

• Eric Mangini:
  "With Hendrickson's situation, he signed the initial four-year deal and then two years into that deal he wanted some more money. So they gave him $8 million up front..."
  (04:25)

Mangini explains the implications of increased fines and non-forgivable penalties on teams, emphasizing the financial strain it places on both the organization and the player. He highlights the delicate balance teams must maintain to retain top talent while managing their payroll effectively.

2. Coaching Strategies and System Building

Timestamp: [06:07] – [09:49]

The discussion transitions to coaching philosophies, particularly the challenges coaches face when adapting their systems to accommodate key players.

• Colin Cowherd:
  "The guy who says he's undefeated in sports arguments. It's fun to kind of back him into a corner..."
  (04:01)

Eric critiques traditional coaching methods, using Matt Nagy's tenure with the Chicago Bears as a case study where the system didn't adequately fit quarterback Justin Fields.

• Eric Mangini:
  "Why is that so difficult for so many coaches to actually do build a system around the talent that they have?"
  (07:32)

Mangini advocates for flexibility in coaching systems, emphasizing the importance of tailoring strategies to leverage player strengths rather than forcing players into rigid frameworks.

3. Emerging Talents: Travis Hunter and Caleb Williams

Timestamp: [14:48] – [34:59]

A significant portion of the episode focuses on rising stars like Travis Hunter and Caleb Williams, exploring their potential impact on their respective teams.

• Eric Mangini:
  "Travis Hunter is going to change the way we view what these athletes can do..."
  (14:48)

Mangini discusses Jacksonville's innovative approach in utilizing Hunter on both offense and defense, analyzing the potential benefits and challenges of such a dual-role strategy.

• Eric Mangini:
  "Caleb Williams' trajectory is on a path for success and it may be quick success for the New England Patriots."
  (28:27)

The conversation shifts to Caleb Williams, where Mangini assesses his adaptability and potential within the NFL, drawing parallels to quarterback Drake May's development with the New England Patriots.

4. Quarterback Rankings and Performance Metrics

Timestamp: [17:38] – [20:01]

Colin presents his top 10 quarterback list, which he claims is flawless, prompting a detailed critique from Mangini.

• Colin Cowherd:
  "Mahomes 1, Herbert 5, Baker 9. Jalen Hurts, 10. It looks perfect to me."
  (17:38)

Mangini offers a nuanced perspective, suggesting adjustments based on player performance, particularly in high-stakes playoff scenarios.

• Eric Mangini:
  "Justin Herbert needs to know when the battle's lost... playing chess, not checkers."
  (31:34)

This segment underscores the importance of decision-making and strategic thinking in quarterback performance, especially during critical moments in games.

5. Team Leadership and Coaching Stability

Timestamp: [20:42] – [37:23]

The duo explores the stability and leadership within NFL teams, focusing on Mike Tomlin's enduring role with the Pittsburgh Steelers and the potential implications of coaching changes.

• Eric Mangini:
  "There should be nothing that turns up a hot seat on a guy like Mike Tomlin."
  (20:42)

Mangini praises Tomlin's consistent performance and leadership, arguing that long-term coaching stability contributes significantly to a team's sustained success.

Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Colin Cowherd and Eric Mangini provide a comprehensive analysis of the NFL's current landscape, emphasizing the delicate interplay between player contracts, coaching strategies, and emerging talents. Key takeaways include:

• Adaptability in Coaching: Successful teams must be willing to adjust their systems to maximize player strengths rather than adhering strictly to preconceived strategies.

• Financial Implications: High fines and non-forgivable contract clauses significantly impact team payrolls and player retention, necessitating careful financial management.

• Emerging Players: Stars like Travis Hunter and Caleb Williams represent the future of the NFL, with their versatile skills and adaptability potentially revolutionizing team dynamics.

• Quarterback Performance: Decision-making and strategic play are critical for quarterbacks, especially in high-pressure situations, influencing their overall rankings and team success.

• Leadership Stability: Consistent and effective leadership from coaches like Mike Tomlin is invaluable for maintaining team performance and achieving long-term success.

Notable Quotes

• Eric Mangini on Trey Hendrickson's Contract:
  "Either the team's got to compensate the player for the $50,000 per day... those numbers are more meaningful."
  (04:25)

• Eric Mangini on Coaching Flexibility:
  "What's best for the player is that we do X, Y, and Z that he's really good at."
  (08:05)

• Colin Cowherd on Quarterback Systems:
  "Justin Herbert needs to start taking care of himself better."
  (31:34)

• Eric Mangini on Mike Tomlin's Leadership:
  "He hasn't had a losing season, which to me is remarkable."
  (20:42)

---

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers an engaging and insightful exploration of the NFL's intricate dynamics, providing listeners with a deeper understanding of the factors shaping the league's future.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Danny Parkins]

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[Rich Ornberger]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Now let's get this party started.

[Eric Mangini]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. The home you've worked so hard for is ready to work hard for you with a home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage. To learn how you can turn your home's equity into cash, visit RocketMortgage.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org Number 3030 welcome back in to the Herd. I'm Danny Park Hopkins in for Colin. Soon you'll be able to catch me on first things first, but you can always catch this man. He is a staple of FtF. Former NFL coach of the year Eric Mangini, kind enough to join us on the Herd Coach, thank you very much for the time. Looking forward to working with you more closely soon.

[Tito]

Yeah, that's going to be fun.

[Eric Mangini]

It's good. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun.

[Tito]

We can give Nick a hard time together.

[Eric Mangini]

Oh, it's one of my passions in life.

[Tito]

It's become a passion of mine as well.

[Eric Mangini]

It's fun.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know the guy who says he's.

[Eric Mangini]

Undefeated in sports arguments. It's fun to kind of back him into a corner and laugh at him. But help me out with these stories. You know, Terry McLaurin, he was holding out, but then he's back. Trey Hendrickson holding out and then he's back. You obviously would deal with this, but Hendrickson's the most high profile one. Are you surprised at all on how this has gone down between Hendrickson and the Bengals?

[Tito]

I'm not completely surprised at all. And you were talking about before the break the $50,000 fine. And the difference for the $50,000 fine now versus what it was before is that fine is not forgivable. So when these guys are getting hit with that $50,000 number, even when the deal is done, someone's got to pay that number. So either the team's got to compensate the player for the $50,000 per day. So look, if you go over the course of the month, it could be over a million dollars, million and a half dollars. Or the players got to deal with that where previously when you redid the contract, you could forgive the fine. So those numbers are more meaningful. And with Hendrix Hendrickson's situation, he signed the initial four year deal and then two years into that deal he wanted some more money. So they gave him $8 million up front. They gave him another $8 million guaranteed and they added a year to his deal, which is this year right now, which he's unhappy about. So I understand from an organization's perspective, the organization's perspective, that they don't want to have to keep redoing deals. And I understand from Hendrickson's perspective too, he has been outstanding and he's been outstanding on a team that is in desperate need of defensive players that are outstanding. So he's got a lot of leverage as well. So they've got to find some sort of happy medium to give the team a chance to be successful. And what's been Cincinnati's biggest problem is slow starts, right? Slow starts have killed them. So if they don't get Hendrickson back till the start of the season and he doesn't play as well as he could, that could be, you know, part of another Cincinnati slow start and another problematic finish of the season for him.

[Eric Mangini]

So in Dallas there's also a contract story. But frankly I find the contract stories a little tedious because they ultimate, they ultimately get done and we're part parsing millions of dollars for millionaires already. But the big story in Dallas to me anyway is Brian Schottenheimer and where they go from there. Like Michael get done. Shoddy was on your staff, so you know him. I was surprised that they hired someone who was already with Mike McCarthy. What will the differences be between Schottenheimer and McCarthy?

[Tito]

You know, I think Brian is, is an underrated candidate. And when I hired Brian, one of the things that I really bottom is not only was he smart and had good relationships with players, but he was also flexible. So he had a system that he ran that was really had given us problems in New England that I wanted to bring with me to the Jets. He was willing to run that system, but he was willing to incorporate other things into that system in order to make it our system in order to take advantage of the players that we had. And I loved that flexibility that he showed. And now look, it's been quite a few years since then. So he's learned a lot. He's got a ton of experience and he's a first time head coach just like all these first time head coaches are. But I think he's got just as much potential to be successful there as any of the other, any of the other first time head coaches.

[Eric Mangini]

I want to follow up on that. I feel like I always hear coaches say, I'm going to build the system around my players, around the personnel that we have. But then there are so many examples, and I'm a Bears fan, I saw it in Chicago. You know, Matt Nagy trying to fit Justin Fields into his system was probably the most prominent example of my fandom where it was very clear that they weren't really building a system around the player. They were trying to fit the player into their system. Why is that so difficult for so many coaches to actually do build a system around the talent that they have?

[Tito]

Well, when. When you're raised in a system and when you've had success in a system and you've seen it work at a really high level, which most of these guys who have gotten head coaching jobs, that that's been the case, and then you go to a new program and that's your expertise, you tend to want to bring all those good things and show the group, hey, this has real value, which is great, which over time can work really well. But you also have to understand that, and this is happening right now a lot, Danny, in training camps is you go into a season with who you want to be, and then the good coaching staffs figure out who they need to be. That's the difference between good staffs and great staffs, is knowing who you want to be and then realizing who you need to be in order to be successful that year. And you have to. You have to have enough humbleness and openness to say, this isn't going to work right now. It's not that it's bad. It's just not good for us right now. And what's best for the player is that we do X, Y and Z that he's really good at. And when I brought Brett Favre in New York, I wasn't going to try to run our system that didn't fit Brett Favre. I was going to do the things that Brett Favre did really well to make sure he was the best version of himself. And he saw that in Tampa Bay with, with Tom Brady. Initially, they were doing, you know, they weren't doing what Tom did really well. When they pivoted towards what Tom did really well and ended up bringing him to the Super Bowl. And it's the same thing with young players, too. You, you just gotta. You gotta be able to take a step back and say, hey, this is good. It's just not good for us right now. The best thing is what's good for this player who's leading us.

[Eric Mangini]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Rich Ornberger]

Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports.

[Colin Cowherd]

Radio every day 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to.

[Eric Mangini]

And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips blaming me.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well you know what it's called Over Promise.

[Eric Mangini]

You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years. Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be.

[Colin Cowherd]

A part of it.

[Eric Mangini]

We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships.

[Rich Ornberger]

And if Rich and I are arguing.

[Eric Mangini]

About something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promised and also uncensored by the.

[Eric Mangini]

Way, so maybe we'll go at it.

[Rich Ornberger]

Even a little harder.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's gonna be the best after show.

[Rich Ornberger]

Podcast of all time.

[Colin Cowherd]

There you go.

[Eric Mangini]

Over Promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Danny Parkins]

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[Rich Ornberger]

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[Tito]

Okay.

[Rich Ornberger]

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[Eric Mangini]

I think one of the most fascinating stories in the NFL this year is Travis Hunter because of what Jacksonville is trying to do with him and they are saying, we're not only going to try it, we're going to do it. We're going to play this guy on both sides of the ball. At camp so far he's split in terms of first team reps on offense and defense. It's been 5050. And coming up, they're going to do the first practice where he does both in the same day. How would you manage an athlete like that as a coach?

[Tito]

Yeah, so. So in New England we had Troy Brown, different athlete he had played. I think he was in his 11th year as a wide receiver, never played on defense and pro football. But we worked him in camp and he ended up playing on. On defense as well as offense. And that year he played more defensive snaps than offensive snaps. But my approach with Travis Hunter and I think would be most efficient is start them on defense, let them play full time on defense, because you can't guarantee what the other team's offense is going to do. So let's say you want to have them in dime defense and they come out and they're playing a bunch of things where you're going to have to play more dime than you wanted to and he's got to play more reps. You don't have control. But if you start him on defense, say he's playing full time there and then you play him situationally, offensively, that to me is the best approach to it because you control when he goes in. So play him on third down, play him in the red zone and play him in two minute on offense and play him full time on defense and control what you can control with the athlete and give him the best chance to maximize his talents and impact on both sides.

[Eric Mangini]

How many guys do you think are going to be raising their hands and being like, I can do it too?

[Tito]

Yeah, yeah. Look, every. There's a lot of guys who believe they can do it. And even with Travis, the difference is every athlete he faces is good. And even the guys that are considered not great in the NFL are probably on the highest end of the guys he faced while he was at Colorado. So to go down in and down out against the best athletes that he's faced, it's hard to do. And we're not talking about 12 games, we're talking about 17 games. And that doesn't even account for the preseason. That doesn't account for how much longer the season is. That doesn't account for how much bigger the playbook is on offense, how much bigger the playbook is on defense. And as much as he wants to do this, organizationally, they're going to have to protect him from himself because the wear and tear is a big thing and they want him all season long and they want him to have a very long, productive career. So I hope they don't burn him out here too early and they let this build at a rate that's sustainable.

[Eric Mangini]

So we're going to be working together a lot more on first things first. And so you've been exposed to Nick Wright's lists, and so now I want to show you a perfect list for a change. I just felt like I'd help you out a little bit.

[Tito]

Finally, I'm going to get a perfect list.

[Eric Mangini]

Exactly. I see no flaws in my top 10 quarterback list, Coach. Eagles fans seem to have a lot of problems with it, but I'm curious. Mahomes 1, Herbert 5, Baker 9. Jalen Hurts, 10. It looks perfect to me. What say you?

[Tito]

Okay, so looking at this list, I absolutely agree with Mahomes at one. I think you're two, three, four are completely interchangeable. I think if you put those three players up and said to all 32 teams, you can draft any one of these three players, it would probably be split, you know, in thirds in terms of who guys would want based off of the system they had or which way they were leaning towards. So those guys are, to me, interchangeable.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Eric Mangini]

There's a clear tough four. There's a, there's a clear tough four. The debate is five through 10.

[Tito]

Yeah. So even, even five through 10, I would, I, I went Jaden Daniels at five and, and I know, you know, we're going into the sophomore year and there could be the sophomore slump and people are going to catch up. I, I do think that the difference is not only what he did as, as a runner, but his accuracy. To me, I would, I would push him to that five spot with Stafford being my slash there. Stafford and Jaden Daniels, I, I love Stafford. The fact that he won the Super Bowl, I played again, coached against for a long time, caused problems, but his age to me, bumps him to six. And then after that, I, I get the Justin Herbert where he is. I struggle with his performance in the playoffs. That's why I think you got to bump Jalen hurts. You got to give him credit for, for what he's done in the biggest moments, so I'd probably bump him up and, and he and Justin are kind of in that next area. And then with, with Jared and Baker, I mean, it just depends on, on what you like. I mean, I, I'm a little hot.

[Eric Mangini]

Problems, Coach. I'll take it. I'll take.

[Tito]

Is. I don't love six and seven. I'm more five and six. Justin, Justin, Jared, Baker, they're kind of in a group. And then I get why you have Jalen at 10, but, but you do have to. I think you got a great amount of curve based off of performance in the playoffs.

[Eric Mangini]

He's been unbelievable in the playoffs. The Steelers are such a fascinating team for a number of reasons. I actually like the moves they made in a vacuum for this year. There's huge questions about the long term ramifications, but I thought that they made sense. My question is, let's say I'm wrong and let's say this goes poorly. And it is a seven win season, first losing season under Mike Tomlin, and we're now at 9, going on 10 years without a playoff win. And there's a handful of offensive coordinators and a bunch of different quarterbacks. Is there anything that could actually turn up a hot seat on a guy like Mike Tomlin, given that Pittsburgh has had three coaches in the history of their organization?

[Tito]

I don't, I don't think there should be. I'm a huge Mike Tomlin fan. And, and what people forget is how hard it is to deal with transitioning after a great quarterback. So Bill Belichick after a great quarterback, not very good, right? Sean Payton without Drew Brees, pretty different equation than what we're used to seeing. And it's the same thing, you know, Ben Roethlisberger. And they haven't had the losing season, which to me is remarkable. But they haven't found their answer at quarterback. And finding that answer at quarterback, everybody's chasing it. And that's why when these great quarterbacks become available, all the teams that are quarterback starved, they go and see if they can hit on them. So whether it's Aaron Rodgers at the jets and now Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh, or, you know, take your pick, it was us with Brett Favre trying to capture some of that magic. Russell Wilson when he got traded, it's. You're. You're hoping that this is the answer. You're hoping that Aaron Rodgers is over, you know, wanting to be gm, wanting to be head coach and now just wants to be a great player. And a great teammate and a great contributor. Maybe it's not the level we've been used to seeing him at his high point, but hopefully it's a better level than we've seen him since he's left Green Bay.

[Eric Mangini]

Football season's here. Coach. This feels good. It feels good to have hype. It feels good to have like, we got a game on Thursday. Are you a play guys in the preseason guy, or are you, you know, risk averse like me? I'm scared of injury.

[Tito]

Yeah, it's, this is always the challenging part. So it's, it's this time of year figuring out whether you want to play your stars or not. And then it's at the end of the season when you've made the playoffs and you're trying to figure out whether you want to play your stars or not. And it's always the what is it, rust versus Rest philosophy. And I think you want to get some reps for your guys and have them feel what it's like to work together, even if it's a limited exposure so that the first time they're seeing action isn't in Game one. But you know, I understand why a lot of head coaches say, yeah, I'd rather him be rusty and available than hurt and not available.

[Eric Mangini]

Eric Mangini, Fox Sports NFL analyst, former coach of the year, looking forward to working with you on ftf and we'll be watching later on today. Thank you, coach.

[Tito]

Awesome. We'll talk to you soon.

[Eric Mangini]

Thank you. That's Eric Mangini going around the NFL with him and we'll be watching. Like I said on First Things First. Drake Mayhype, it's real. I feel like I own all the stock in that kid. Loved him coming out of college. Penn State also expectations for a title run. We'll ask about that with former Patriot and Penn State star Rich Ornberger. Next, Danny Parkinson for Colin the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Unknown]

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[Danny Parkins]

Life moves fast. A new home, a new baby, a new chapter. But without an estate plan, your future's still vulnerable. With trust and will, you can name guardians, start a trust, create health care directives and more. All online in about an hour. It's attorney designed, state specific and built to protect what you love. Plans start at just $199 and every plan is safe, secure and kept completely private. From families with young kids to adults caring for aging parents. Trust and will makes it simple to take control without a law office, paperwork, stress or court delays. Go to trustinwill.com and use code RADIO to save 20%. Start your plan today. Don't wait for life to fly. Force your hand. Estate planning is one of the smartest, most loving things you can do. Trust and Will is an online estate planning service. See website for details.

[Rich Ornberger]

Introducing the new Dell AI PC. Powered by the Intel Core Ultra processor. It's not just an AI computer, it's a computer built for AI. That means it's built to help do your busy work for you. So you can fast forward through editing images, designing presentations, generating code, debugging code, running lots of apps without lag, summarizing meeting notes, extending battery life, finding that file you were looking for, managing your schedule, meeting your deadlines, responding to Jim's long emails, leaving all the time in the world for more you time and for the things you actually want to do. No offense Jim. Get a new Dell AI PC starting at [e-mail] aipc how those ahead? Stay ahead. Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade Vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean tasting, made the right way.

[Tito]

Okay.

[Rich Ornberger]

I like things that are built to last. A great team, a well run organization. Same goes for my vodka Tito's. Made in Austin, Texas. Real care, attention to detail, distinct crisp taste. I was just telling my wife the other day Tito's is the one vodka it has a completely distinct taste. Been my go to for years so I like to keep it simple. Tito's Soda one lime A lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. Your team's going to play 162 games. A perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.

[Eric Mangini]

Back in on the herd. I'm Danny Parkins in for Colin. Football is fast approaching. We've got Rich Ornberger on the show. He was a fourth round pick of the Patriots, played his college ball at Penn State, and he's got a radio show. This is a radio show name Big Rich, TD and Fletch. I love it. On 105 KJ KGB in San Diego. Rich, thank you so much for the time. So, Patriots draft pick. Let's start there. Drake made to me passes the eye test. I love them. Coming out of college, he had no talent around him. He had a real tough offensive line situation. Obviously they fired the coach. What type of trajectory do you think Drake May is on right now?

[Colin Cowherd]

Look, I mean, anytime you switch coaches earlier in your career, that can hamper your development. Drake May is a gamer, though. I, I got to call his holiday bowl game in San Diego and I was impressed with this guy. I mean, he was the best player on the field in my opinion. And he stood in good company that, that night. Drake May, he can make all the throws. He is a good enough athlete to play in this league. It's just a matter of how plastic his mind is, how quickly he can switch from one set of coaches and one set of, you know, cultural orders to the next. Look, one thing we know is Mike Rabel has gotten more out of lesser quarterbacks than Drake May. You know, so in theory, this sets up well for him. Plus they're making an investment in protecting him better on the offensive line. Plus, you know, Vrabel is going to be committed to the run game first and playing staunch defense and that's a talented defense on the other side of the ball. So he'll get second chance opportunities. That defense will get him the ball back. So I think the trajectory, the path that he could be on is one for success and it may be quick success for the New England Patriots.

[Eric Mangini]

That's an interesting way to put it. The, the how plastic his mind is in changing the coaches early. I never heard it put quite that way. I mean, so it applies to Drake May. It applies, it applies to Caleb. How do you tell if it's going well?

[Colin Cowherd]

Really, it's like learning a different language, right? So, okay, so you've been around people who are quick studies at languages, Right. You know, they seem to just understand how to immerse themselves into cultures. They pick up context clues really well. They're able to relate things back to their language of origin and quickly avoid mistakes. And that is going to be the real test here. It's not whether or not Drake May knows football. We know he knows football. That's the reason why he was drafted. The question is how quickly can he change languages. And so when I say a plastic mind, I just mean somebody who is easily moldable and can fit into a new system, running a new language. And language is key in a football program. Everything has to be communicated and it all starts with the quarterback. So that is going to be the biggest hurdle this training camp for Drake May, but overall, the New England Patriots and especially on the offensive side of the ball.

[Eric Mangini]

So if you're doing radio in San Diego, you're still talking to a lot of Chargers fans even though they're in Los Angeles. I'm a huge Justin Herbert fan. I feel like he'd been let down by the franchise that hadn't really been living up to his talent. Coach Harbaugh spoke to that earlier in the week. He's followed a Peyton Manning track. Similar win loss records, similar touchdown numbers. No playoff wins in his first five years. Peyton broke out. He got dungeon year five, breaks out in year six, is co MVP and is in the AFC Championship game. I think he's on that trajectory also. What of the struggles, I guess, of Justin Herbert have you put on Justin Herbert to this point in his career?

[Colin Cowherd]

Self preservation. It is really difficult to teach this to a competitor. But Justin Herbert needs to know when the battle's lost. And I know that sounds counterintuitive, especially in a sport as competitive as football. But he has to understand when a play is dead, when it's time to fall on your sword and take the sack, there are smart sacks to take. There are good opportunities to get rid of the football. Not every play needs to turn into a dynamic first down or an effort at a first down or an effort at a touchdown. Sometimes the smart choice is to play chess, not checkers. Look, I get it. King Me is fun. But you know what's more fun? You know, trapping, you know, the king with Knight at E1. Look, I don't know chess, but I do know football. And I do know that he's struggling a little bit, protecting himself in games. So yeah, look, he hasn't been surrounded by the best talent, the best coaching, the best skill at times. Certainly the offensive line has had its issues, injury being one of them. But he needs to really, Jim Harbaugh really needs to hammer home the point that they are not going to win many football games without Justin Herbert in the huddle. So he needs to start taking care of himself better.

[Eric Mangini]

So speaking of great athletes, they all are. You were. Travis Hunter is a extra great athlete and I think he is going to change the way we view what these athletes can do. They're clearly going to play him two ways. He clearly wants to play two ways. What is reasonable to expect from Travis Hunter as an NFL player?

[Colin Cowherd]

Travis Hunter is going to be better at one of these positions than the other. This isn't college football anymore. These are trained professionals who have been at this for a very long time, and they're going to be fits and starts with every career, even for the most talented. But when you are trying to understand the nuance of two different sides of the ball, when the bright lights are on in the NFL and you're not playing against guys who are, you know, in certain cases in college football, playing college football for the first time since high school and still miss their mom and dad, you know, they're, they're only divorced by 12 months from being grounded for the last time. You know, these guys you're playing against and preparing for, they've been in the league for 12 years sometimes and have been catching, catching passes against defensive backs at an all pro level for five to eight years. You know, so Travis Hunter is going to face those challenges as defensive back in the NFL and then you turn it over to the offense. The hits are harder, the windows are tighter, the timing is faster. So he is going to struggle at times. He is going to have successes, obviously, because again, this is why you draft a guy in the first round, because you're counting on that. But I think what we're going to see, it's going to be pretty obvious which side of the ball he's more comfortable playing. And then there may be a conversation and it could come as soon as the halfway point of the season. Do we abandon this idea first that we had that could be game changing? Or do we stick with it and potentially, you know, have a guy who is above average on both sides of the ball as opposed to having a guy who's elite on one side of the ball?

[Eric Mangini]

So you've been in locker rooms, you've been around guys who made a ton of money, and I'm Sure. You were around guys who had issues with not making enough money. It's a story in Washington, it's a story in Cincinnati, it's the biggest story in Dallas. So we can put it there. But also just to globalize it, how big of a deal ultimately is it if player is unhappy with contract like say Micah Parsons is unhappy with the Dallas Cowboys?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's a problem until it isn't a problem anymore. You know, look, the business side of this game is a really important side of this game. You have a short window to make life changing money and Micah Parsons deserves life changing money because he is a franchise shifting player. So he's going to get his. He's going to make every attempt at getting his, and Jerry Jones is going to do Jerry Jones things. We're seeing a lot of that. I know you're following it closely, Danny, but as ugly as it can get sometimes, one thing that all football players, especially football players as talented as Micah Parsons do is compartmentalize. Whatever's happening in your personal life or your business career, you have to separate and be able to go out and perform. He's been doing that at an elite level for a long time now. And I. My expectation is regardless of how sour or dower these negotiations go, regardless of how long they take, as soon as he hits the field, he's going to. He's going to get right back where he left off. And the sooner the better because obviously you want your defense to congeal. You want there to be some sureness in terms of working together with all the guys on the fields, playing their roles at practice and in whatever preseason action they see during the actual games. But yeah, you know, just speaking broadly about talented football players like Micah Parsons, once he's through the rigors of the negotiation, he's going to get back to doing what he loves and what he's great at, which is sacking quarterbacks and making impactful plays on the defense for the Dallas Cowboys.

[Eric Mangini]

He went to Penn State. You went to Penn State, same level of athlete, obviously. There's no question about that. Do you believe that Penn State deserves to be the favorite in the Big Ten this year?

[Colin Cowherd]

I do. I do. They return a tremendous amount of talent. They have a quarterback who's worthy of carrying that weight, who's made clutch plays and has made mistakes. I mean, we are reminded every time the replays of that Notre Dame game come over there. He obviously has things to clean up. But great players make mistakes and learn from them. And that's part of being great, is not repeating those confounding moments that can really hurt your team in the moments that matter the most. And in terms of coaching and culture, I think. I think what coach James Franklin has done with Penn State has been nothing short of miraculous. I mean, if you think about where this program was when he first took over, you know, it was only one coach separated from the scandal and the exit of Joe Paterno, and a rebuild was still in order. And he ushered Penn State football through that era into a new era of success and arguably the most successful window that they've ever enjoyed. So I believe full heartedly that this team can win the Big Ten. If I'm not the first to say it, I believe they will win the Big Ten. They do need to perform in the big moments, and that is going to be the biggest task of this season. We know they can win. We know they can win at a great rate. But can they win in those big moments? That has yet to be answered. And that is the question they must answer. And I think they will this season.

[Eric Mangini]

Then quickly, do you think Aller is a good pro? Like, is he a good pro prospect?

[Colin Cowherd]

He does. He does translate well to the pro game game. Just size and athleticism. Kind of the same way we were just talking about Drake. May good enough athlete, can make the throws, has shown great composure in moments. Obviously, there's always work to be done, but one thing that you, you love to see out of a player in terms of whether or not he can hack it at the next level is anticipatory throws. And he's good there. You know, he gets the timing down with his receivers, he finds the windows. He's clearly reading defenses. He's no dummy. I think. I think he'll be a good pro one day, but he's got his work cut out this season. He's got a lot of work to do ahead of him still in college football.

[Eric Mangini]

Former Penn State Nittany Lyon, former draft pick of the Patriots, played six years in the NFL. Rich Ornberger, thank you so much for taking time for the Herd. Thank you, Richard.

[Colin Cowherd]

Glad to do it, Danny, anytime.

[Eric Mangini]

Thank you. We'll talk again soon. That's Rich Ornberger here with us on the Herd. And yeah, we are one month away from Ohio State and Texas. Some of the best players, the best draft prospects, downs, Jeremiah Smith and yes, Arch Manning trying to live up to absolutely impossible hype. Hey, you've thrown 95 passes in college football. You're the favorite for the Heisman Trophy and the second favorite to be the national champion. And people think you're going to be the number one overall pick. No big deal. It's been a tremendous honor. It's a ton of fun whenever I get to sit in for Colin Coward. Thank you so much for listening and watching the herd.

[Danny Parkins]

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[Rich Ornberger]

Every once in a while you get the chance to make a real difference. And this is one of those moments. Folds of Honor provides educational scholarships to the spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. It's a powerful mission honoring their sacrifice through the gift of education. But last year, about 7,000 qualified students didn't receive funding and that number is expected to grow to nearly 10,000. Don't let financial needs stand in the way of their future. Visit foldsofhonor.org to donate. Any amount helps. Together we can close that gap one scholarship at a time. Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's. Made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen. Baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume saver responsibly. Wasabi Technologies is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from those old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams around the world. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air, to the industry's only cloud storage service. With triple protection against cybercriminals, Wasabi is driving innovation in data storage, all for up to 80% less than the other guys. Triumph for [e-mail], wasabi Hot Cloud Storage, Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.