Hour 3 - Cooper Flagg vs Bronny James

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: Hour 3 - Cooper Flagg vs Bronny James
Release Date: July 9, 2025

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Introduction and Current Sports Landscape
Timestamp: 02:29 - 12:00

In this episode, the discussion kicks off with Doug Gottlieb stepping in for Colin Cowherd, delving into the evolving landscape of sports. Gottlieb highlights the shifting dynamics in college sports, particularly the recent changes allowing players to be paid. He remarks, “College sports, massive change now that you're paying players” (04:20), emphasizing how this transformation is attracting more attention and curiosity towards sports media and broadcasts.

The conversation then transitions to the saturation of sports on television. Gottlieb notes, “Not all of it's positive. … a lot of young fans are not fans of teams anymore. They’re fans of players” (05:45), pointing out the trend where fans follow individual athletes rather than entire teams, leading to increased player mobility and changing team loyalties.

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WNBA Spotlight: Angel Reese vs Caitlin Clark
Timestamp: 12:00 - 30:00

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the Women’s National Basketball Association (WNBA), specifically spotlighting players Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark. Gottlieb criticizes the media’s focus on Reese over Clark, stating, “The WNBA wants to like, push her away and say, like, yes, she’s fine, but everybody else is awesome” (19:50). He argues that this dynamic stems from jealousy and an inability to embrace increasing attention towards female athletes.

Gottlieb draws parallels between the current situation in the WNBA and historical instances in the NBA, such as the steroid controversies surrounding Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. He asserts, “It's like my old college coach Eddie said… bad financial decisions” (17:00), suggesting that favoritism and selective attention can skew perceptions of athletes’ contributions and popularity.

Discussing the commercial aspect, Gottlieb highlights the marketing strategies of the WNBA, questioning the rationale behind featuring Angel Reese over Caitlin Clark on prominent platforms like video game covers. He states, “But I’ve been doing this job for 23 years … it’s just always been about some underdog story” (22:30), criticizing the narrative choices that overshadow actual performance metrics and fanbase preferences.

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Celtics Offseason Moves and Team Dynamics
Timestamp: 30:00 - 40:00

The conversation shifts to the Boston Celtics' aggressive offseason moves, with TJ Hushmanzada providing insights into the team's strategy. Hushmanzada explains, “Brad Stevens … he wants them to, quote, compete like hell to win the next game” (31:20), indicating a shift from the term "rebuild" to a more competitive mindset.

Gottlieb analyzes the Celtics' decisions to part ways with key players like Porzingis and Horford, emphasizing that these moves were premeditated and part of a larger strategy to optimize the team's future performance. He concludes, “I think the plan is still in place … regardless of win or loss” (34:10), reinforcing the notion that the Celtics are positioning themselves for long-term success despite current challenges.

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NFL Updates: Travis Kelce and T.J. Watt
Timestamp: 40:00 - 50:00

Turning to the NFL, the hosts discuss Travis Kelce’s upcoming season with the Kansas City Chiefs. Hushmanzada mentions, “Travis Kelce … his production has dropped off in the last two seasons” (36:00), while Gottlieb remains optimistic about Kelce’s ability to perform in critical moments: “When the games are most important and the lights are the brightest, he finds it somewhere” (36:23).

The discussion also covers T.J. Watt’s contract negotiations with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hushmanzada notes, “Watt has been withholding from team activities … to get that new deal” (38:00), highlighting the ongoing tensions between player demands and team management’s willingness to meet those expectations.

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Main Topic: Cooper Flagg vs Bronny James in NBA Summer League
Timestamp: 40:00 - 55:00

The centerpiece of this episode is the upcoming NBA Summer League showdown between Cooper Flagg and Bronny James, two highly anticipated young talents. Gottlieb sets the stage by detailing their performances and public expectations: “Proper expectations for Cooper Flag are … Bronny James are, hey, dude, at some point, you gotta be best player on the floor” (44:28).

Expectations and Performance Analysis Gottlieb emphasizes that Cooper Flagg has demonstrated consistent dominance at every level, from high school to Duke University: “a kid who was the best player when he played 16s … was the best player at Duke” (45:00). In contrast, he expresses skepticism about Bronny James’ ability to meet the high expectations set for him, noting, “there was never a time which he was absolutely the best player on a high school floor nor on a college floor” (47:15).

Market and Audience Reception The discussion also touches on the commercialization and fan interest surrounding the match-up. Hushmanzada points out, “the average ticket price for a summer league game … is going for about $223” (50:02), questioning the value proposition for fans. Gottlieb counters this by suggesting that the event doubles as a networking opportunity for agents and scouts: “you're buying a ticket to like … going to a club before everybody goes out to a club” (51:00).

Comparative Analysis Gottlieb contrasts Flagg’s and James’ expectations by referring to other NBA players who have shined in Summer League, such as LeBron James: “He's slightly … you're not supposed to, but … because that's never been him” (49:30). He underscores the importance of demonstrating leadership and dominance in Summer League as a measure of future potential, which he believes Flagg is more likely to achieve given his track record.

Audience Engagement and Final Thoughts The hosts wrap up their analysis by debating the financial and developmental aspects of the Summer League, debating whether it’s worth the high ticket prices and how it fits into the broader NBA ecosystem. Gottlieb concludes, “if you have $2,500 in Vegas, is that the best way to allocate your resources?” (52:11), urging listeners to weigh the benefits against the costs.

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Conclusion
Timestamp: 55:00 - End

The episode concludes with a recap of the discussions, emphasizing the importance of realistic expectations for young athletes and the evolving nature of sports marketing and fan engagement. The hosts encourage listeners to tune into the upcoming Summer League game between Cooper Flagg and Bronny James, positioning it as a significant event in the basketball calendar.

Notable Quotes:

• "College sports, massive change now that you're paying players." – Doug Gottlieb (04:20)
• "The WNBA wants to like, push her away and say, like, yes, she’s fine, but everybody else is awesome." – Doug Gottlieb (19:50)
• "Proper expectations for Cooper Flagg are … Bronny James are, hey, dude, at some point, you gotta be best player on the floor." – Doug Gottlieb (44:28)
• "He's buying a ticket to like … going to a club before everybody goes out to a club." – Doug Gottlieb (51:00)
• "If you have $2,500 in Vegas, is that the best way to allocate your resources?" – Doug Gottlieb (52:11)

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This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd provides an in-depth analysis of current sports trends, spotlighting the WNBA, team strategies in the NBA, and previewing the highly anticipated Summer League matchup between Cooper Flagg and Bronny James. The hosts offer critical perspectives on media narratives, player performance expectations, and the commercialization of sports events, making it an engaging listen for sports enthusiasts seeking comprehensive coverage of the latest developments.

Transcript

[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with Me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Jasmine Crockett, Democratic Representative of Texas. She's holding down the fort for her party in one of the most conservative states in the union. I think that ultimately who will become the Democratic nominee for president will be someone that has been out there and has shown that they won't allow themselves to be punched and just say thank you like they will punch back. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FS.

[Ryan Music]

Now let's get this party started.

[Doug Gottlieb]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in this is the Herd. Wherever you may be listening, however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd, and for the next hour, I want to talk sports with you. So it's, it's. We're in this weird time, right? You would all agree, I think if we. Not our head, like, is a little bit of weird time. Politically, it's just weird. You don't have to say what side you're on. Politically, you would admit it's. It's the, the best way to say, well, that's different. Yeah, that's. That's, that's different. Yeah, that's. That's different. We're gonna do it. UFC fight at the White House next year. That's different. That definitely. They'll definitely be a lot of barbed wire tattoos at that event. And look, I like, I watched UFC two weekends ago. It's great. At the White House. That's different. Hey, sports is in this kind of different place as well. College sports, massive change now that you're paying players. Massive. And I do think that there's lots of things that sports radio, sports television have done that are good. We bring attention, and attention brings curiosity. Curiosity brings people to either the TV sets or to their radio stations or in person to watch games. That's really. We're drumming up interest with discussion about it. Not all of it's positive. Right. I think the proliferation of sports on tv, combined with the fact that sports television hyper focuses on star players and a lot of young fans are not fans of teams anymore. They're fans of players. And a lot of it is that players move team to team to team. Take LeBron James. He's played for the Lakers for seven years. It still doesn't feel like he's a Laker. And Laker fans would go like, nah, he's not. I mean, are you really going to put him on the Mount Rushmore of Lakers in an outsider to Laker to Los Angeles be like, well, of course, all time in score, he won NBA championship. Why wouldn't you? Well, because honestly, like, are you going to take Jerry west down? What about Magic? What about Kareem? What about big game James? What about Kobe? What about Shaq? Where do they. Where do they stack up? Like, well, that's different. We didn't even get to all the other. Wilt Chamberlain never discussed him, right. Elgin Baylor didn't discuss him, etcetera, Etc, Etcetera. So we're in a weird time where there are people who are LeBron fans, not Laker fans and Laker fans who they don't even accept LeBron as a Laker. He just kind of played for Lakers. And they're like, yeah, well, we're, we're good. We're also in this time in which suddenly now we're, I mean, Sunday, obviously, I think most of the world, most of the United States started to pay attention to soccer. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. World Cups. Next year, we'll, we'll be fake soccer fans up until then. And when it's over, they will pretend like we're real soccer fans. Then I'll move on. But the WNBA has been a part of the sports radio, sports television conversation now for parts of the last two and a half years. And what does that coincide with? The rise of Caitlin Clark? And you can argue otherwise. Feel free. You can say, well, there's this, there's that, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the reality is it tracks directly with Caitlin Clark, and the ratings are the easiest determinant. Again, I don't, you know, it's like if we went purely by ratings, we should be talking about nascar. But the reality is NASCAR fans, NHL fans, they don't listen to sports radio. But in the sports discussion, the WNBA has become kind of a talking point. And I think it's. It's just weird that we feel compelled to force the conversation to spread out around other players. Angel Reese is the biggest recipient of attention, some because of her play, a lot of because of her antics going back two years ago in the Final Four. But a lot of it is like, look, she's a good player, good rebounder. Reebok gave her her own shoe. I would love to see the sales numbers on that bad boy. And there is a. A portion of the demo which likes Angel Reese, likes that she somehow becomes some underdog story. Like, she's not an underdog. You know, she left the school to transfer to lsu, where they gathered up the best women's basketball players and won a national championship. That's not an underdog. And then she was a top pick. Not the top, but a top pick in the WNBA draft. Like, that's not an underdog, but whatever. If you want to make it into an underdog story, we can make anything into an underdog story. But I find it really curious on how Angel Reese is the face of the WNBA on the WNBA edition of 2K26. Huh? Right? So that's a weird one. Now for. If you know the. In the superstar edition, Carmelo Anthony is also on the COVID So you're like, wait, now we're getting super Weird. Carmelo Anthony covers the NBA now. I think he's. Is he going for Amazon or NBC? So a little bit of the 2K cover is kind of like the Sports Illustrated being on a Sports Illustrated cover, right? Used to matter a lot. Doesn't really matter now. Like, I don't just, I don't even know if Sports Illustrated still does the magazine. Even when they did the magazine, they started doing the regional stuff. And when they started doing the regional stuff, they started placating as many different demos as possible. Like, hey, let's just be nice. Where it used to be, like, let's just put Jordan on the COVID and sell a bunch of magazines. He's the best. Everybody knows he's the best. But the, the 2K cover is weird, right? Why, why would you put Angel Reese there? What is this need to place others there? We do it, by the way, in, in advertising. If you watch the NBA playoffs, there were the littered throughout the entire playoffs were WNBA players in the place of where NBA players used to be as spokespeople for, you know, what used to just be The Chris Paul, LeBron James and Steph Curry show. Now all of a sudden you have WNBA players who, let's just be honest, no one knows who they are outside of Caitlin Clark. And my guess is that 2K26 and in this alternate cover doesn't sell a ton anyway. But do you think you would sell more if Caitlyn was on the COVID The answer is yes. How do I know? Well, her Mamba shoes sold out in like, what, two hours or something crazy like that. Like, she's a thing, you know, she's a superstar. And superstars are not always determined based upon who the absolute best is. It's who we like to watch the most. By the way, Caitlin Clark returned from injury today. 10, 6, 5. And the fever's blowout lost to the Valkyrie. That's the new team in San Francisco. So. So they've hit a little bit of a tough stretch. She hasn't shot the ball as well. I'm not going to sit here and tell you Caitlin Clark's the best player in the wnba. I don't know who is, and frankly, I don't care. But I've been doing this job for 23 years. 23 years. 22 years ago. 23 years ago, I started at ESPN Radio on a show called Game Night. Never talked women's basketball, especially the wnba, unless there's something dramatic. And for the most part, that wasn't just wasn't there. And again, I Worked at espn. Espn, talked about ESPN products all the time and said, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, talk about our stuff. Synergy, synergy, synergy. But no one ever said, you know, we should talk about wnba because nobody cared. People care now. And yet it's like the WNBA wants to like, push her away and say, like, yes, she's fine, but everybody else is awesome. That's why you should really be paying attention. And when you're trying to figure out why, like, why? What would the pushback be? I think to most of us, especially to men, you're like, jealousy. That's reasonable, right? And we can say that only women are jealous, but plenty of guys are jealous, right? You think of the story of why Barry Bonds is alleged to have started using steroids. Barry Bonds was the first ballot hall of Famer, no doubter. Roger Clemens, first ballot hall of Famer, no doubter. Okay? Both had started their careers. That started to be diminished and they started to be outshone by people who most people think were on steroids. And so then they juiced up and the two who were to the all time greats became the greatest ever at an age which had to be receiving artificial help, right? Those guys were jealous. I, I have three dogs, okay? Pack mentality. But my dogs, you know, when I come home, because I'm the leader of the pack, they're all fighting for attention. Why? It's some sort of jealousy. And we're seeing that here in the wnba and the inability to process the jealousy and to use the positivity of the attention that Caitlin Clark getting to grow the overall sport is kind of laughable to the rest of us, but it's also understandable. Hell hath no wrath like a woman who scorned, right? That's from a playwright in the 16th century. 17th century. And it's true here. And they're not scorned by Caitlin Clark. They feel scorned by the media. And it's, it's crazy, right, because the media is doing backflips to try and help them out. Like, hey, we're trying to cover your game, but we can't talk about stuff that nobody cares about. And the mainstream fans, and you can't control what mainstream fans like and don't like. You know, I think the, the easiest, Taylor Swift is maybe inarguably the most popular performer the country, right? She's by all accounts now she's got that third comma, she's a billionaire. She toured on her last tour and sold out stadium after stadium after stadium, night after Night after night. Would anybody argue that she's the best songwriter, singer, performer, or best looking? No, but people have decided, I like her. I like the vibe. I like the songs. I like the. The whole thing. Are there better female singers? Sure. They're better female country singers. Yes. Are there better performers? They're better looking women. That goes. Yes, yes. But again, it doesn't mean that they're as popular. And the people who have pushed back against tour are no different than the people who push back against the. The popularity of Caitlin Clark. Like, imagine shunning being on the opening act for Taylor Swift. Why? Like, hey, I should be a headliner. Like, that's great. You should be. Or you can use the attention of her tour to propel your career to heights unknown. Right? Heights unknown. Do you guys remember that time slot? This is again, if you're a child of the 90s. If you're a child of the 90s, you remember Must See TV on NBC, right? And you had Cosby show into Cheers and you had that time slot in the middle. Most of it was. For a long time was a different world. And whatever that 8:30 show was, got a huge number, not because it was a great show, but because it was in between to the greatest shows on television, you know, and then it became Seinfeld and Friends, whatever, same thing. But the point is that you can either use the rise in popularity for good or you can fight against it. And it feels like the WNBA is fighting against it and they keep pushing us. Angel Reese. Angel Reese. Angel Reese. Angel Reese. And you're like, you keep pushing it and I just. I don't. It doesn't feel good to me. It feels like bitterness, it feels like jealousy. It feels like you've been weaponizing yourself for 25 years of not being paid attention to. Then we pay attention like, nah, you're not paying attention to the right stuff. Here we are again with another WNBA story of not using the popularity Caitlin Clark to grow the game. Because you put Caitlin Clark on that cover, the thing sells out in minutes. Minutes. And when it sells out, inevitably there'll be, I don't know, a third or half the number of people who buy it have never bought a video game ever before. And if even half of those people throw it in and play it, that's. That's found money. That's a whole new market that brings people to playing games that have never played it before. Instead, it's Angel Reese who has a level of popularity, but it is a fraction of that of Caitlin Clark. All right. We got a lot to get to. We got Cooper Flag versus Bronnie. That's tomorrow in Vegas. We got Herdline News. But coming up next here in the Herd, wait to hear what KD said about his time with the Brooklyn Nets. That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.

[Ryan Music]

Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app hey, what's up everybody? It's me, three time Pro Bowler Levar Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called up on Game. What is up on Game?

[Doug Gottlieb]

You ask?

[Ryan Music]

Along with my fellow Pro Pro Bowler TJ Hushman Zada and Super Bowl Champion.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris.

[Ryan Music]

You can only name a show with that type of talent on it. Up on Game. We're going to be sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up on game with me, Lavar Arrington, TJ Hush Manzada and Plexico Burris on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you you get your podcast from.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Katie Couric]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

As for Steve Nash, that's KD's former head coach when he was in Brooklyn. Here's KD this week talking about his time in Brooklyn.

[Ryan Music]

I didn't think we didn't get the full Steve Nash like I wanted, like you probably wanted. I just felt like it was just too much, too many distractions in a way and you know, you can't win that way. But I felt like we had great intentions though. I felt like we, we cared enough. I felt like every day we were trying to pushed towards winning the champ. It was, it was a great vibe. It's some of the best times that first year. That's why I signed that deal that first year, man, most fun ball I had some of the most fun ball I had playing my whole life. I enjoyed it.

[Doug Gottlieb]

So obviously it's a different spin on Katie's time in Brooklyn, which is generally seen as a failure, a failed experiment. And I know Colin likes to point out, like you're putting your career in the hands of Kyrie Irving. And you know, Kyrie Irving, among other things, got hurt and he got hurt and that was the year, you know, without throwing Kyrie under the bus. Kyrie was under the bus from that year. That was the year that, remember, Kyrie was the post Covid. He didn't want to take a vax, couldn't play at home. Then eventually he got to play later on the year. You fast forward to the next season and Kevin Durant, they, they Nearly beat the champions, the, the walkie bucks if not for his foot being online. And that was without Kyrie Irving was hurt. And of course, James Harden had the pulled hamstring that he was trying to play through. You had the Ben Simmons thing. Look, every athlete, every place you work, when you move around, like, man, it would have worked if. But it didn't. And you got to work through those stages of grief where you get to, through the, to the acceptance level. Right? And I'm, I'm sure there's a. Hey, it's really hard to coach when you have all these other. Don't know if Kyrie's going to play tonight or if he's even allowed to play. Ben Simmons, what's his deal? James Harden, remember, he wanted to be traded then he had. He was constantly hurt. He doesn't want to play any defense. Like, it's a lot. And you know, again, if you parse his words, you're like, oh, well, he had more fun there than playing in Golden State. I think for kd, you know, if you really cut down to brass tacks, it's got to be hard to. Because LeBron's sitting there, you know, and LeBron's pretending to be everybody's best friend. Or maybe he wants to be everybody's best friend now, but the reality is Kevin Durant was an mvp, by the way, Three time runner up for mvp, but an MVP in Oklahoma City. They come within a game of beating Oklahoma City, then he's a free agent, he goes to Golden State, and they, they win two titles, probably would have won the third and he not torn his Achilles tendon. And I'm sure at that point in time he was trying to show, hey, I am the best player in the world. I just am not surrounded by enough space to where I can show you that I can score ON Anybody, including LeBron James in the NBA Finals, which he did. But most people, or many people's reaction continues to be, you joined a 73 win team and congrats, you won an NBA title, like on this show at the time, and since I have repeatedly told you, okay, why do we pay attention to the number of wins of that team? Yet ever since, right? In the 10 years since how many times the team with the best record, this year, obviously best record, won the title, but did so in seven games, how many teams those teams ever got to the Finals? Just like there's not really a correlation between college success and professional success in football and in basketball, there's not really the correlation for the Most part between regular season success and posting set, there's just not right. There's just not. And that 73 win team, okay, probably should have won the NBA title. Andrew Bogut got hurt, and then Draymond Green got suspended. And even then, it took an incredible Game seven from a loaded Cleveland Cavaliers team to beat him. So they, instead of doing strength in numbers, they gutted their roster. They moved on from Harrison Barnes, and they got Kevin Durant. I'm sure in his mind, he's like, look, dude, here I am. I think I'm the best player in the world. And on the biggest stage, I was the best player in the NBA Finals two consecutive years, guarded by LeBron James. I was better in the second half where it matters. But he didn't get, he didn't get the positive accolades that he felt like he deserved. So he goes to Brooklyn, fine, you don't like it when I join the team, we'll build one on our own. We found a coach who was a former player that we could all, you know, I mean, it's not his fault. Yeah, I mean, I, I understand what Colin's saying where it's like, okay, Kyrie, saying we don't need a head coach and having all these guys like a James Harden or a Ben Simmons that have their own flaws, no matter how talented, like, it was a recipe for a disaster. Despite that, they were within one toe being on the line of beating the Milwaukee Bucks, who won the title. But KD trying to have the back of Steve Nash and saying, hey, he really didn't get to coach does paint us a picture of just how chaotic that franchise must have been. But I will tell you, and this is again from personal experience, no matter how chaotic, you either break through as a coach and demand that you are a coach, and I know it's different in the NBA when those guys are worth half a billion dollars or you don't coach, you don't coach. So going to be interested. 36, working on 37 and now with probably one or two more shots at a title. And that's what I think KD probably thinks he needs to put himself on a Mount Rushmore that he'll probably never be able to get to, despite the fact that I think he belongs there. I think he's the best scorer of this generation post Carmelo Anthony and his game evolved more than Carmelo Anthony's did in terms of three point shooting and playing facing the basket, whereas Carmelo was unbelievable scorer for a time, mostly in the post in the mid range. Let's get to Ryan music with the news.

[Ryan Music]

No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

All right, Doug, we'll stay in the association, talk some NBA here. The Celtics, major movers this offseason, dumping salaries and players left and right. Well, Boston's president of basketball operations, Brad Stevens, had this explanation for all of these moves in the off season.

[Colin Cowherd]

The second aprons, why those trades happen. I think that those are pretty obvious.

[Doug Gottlieb]

And the basketball penalties associated with those are real. We've all talked about that. That was part of making the decision to push and put our chips on.

[Colin Cowherd]

The table and go for it the last two years.

[Doug Gottlieb]

But we've known for a long time that hard decisions were coming, and I think the agents and players have known that, too. I mean, that's been pretty well communicated.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

So pretty clear that the Celtics were looking to get underneath that second Abram, which is highly, highly prohibitive against making any future moves down the line. And in addition to this, he's also put an emphasis on the fact that people keep using the term rebuild. And he said that's not going to be a part of the lexicon in our building and the way we're going to focus moving forward. He wants them to, quote, compete like hell to win the next game.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Look, do I think the Celtics will be better than anyone could perceive without Jayson Tatum? Yeah. Do I think he gives Jaylen Brown a chance to show he can lead a team? Absolutely. But when you have 300 million tied up into two guys and one of them can't use his left hand, the other one is coming off an Achilles going to be hard. But what he's been able to do in manipulating that roster and figuring all out, as good a coach as Brad is, he might be a better executive. Yeah. Might be a better exec.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Pretty remarkable. But it. So one of the sort of talking points that Boston has held onto this offseason was that the Jason Tatum injury, specifically in a vacuum, did not necessarily change the moves that they were already intending to make to avoid that second apron. Do you buy that?

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, Yeah. I, I, I, I mean, they were going to move Pozingis. I mean, that thing was, that wasn't. I mean, he barely played last year. He wasn't Right.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Sure.

[Doug Gottlieb]

You know, they, and they. Horford was one of those. I'm sure they wanted to make an offer, whatever, but at 39, it was probably best he moved on. And the same thing with Drew Holiday. Like, Drew's tremendous, but it's some, I'm sure That was all part of the plan. You know, Drew not happy about being in Portland, but I'm sure he'll end up finding a place to a team that wants to compete for a title. Yeah, I actually do buy that. I do. I think that the plan is still in place and that they haven't, you know. Totally. I think the Anthony Simmons one would be the Simons. Excuse me. That's the one that it's like. All right. Would they have acquired him if they had Jason Tatum? Probably not. But the guys they moved on from. Yeah, I think that was part of the plan all along. Yeah.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

It also. I tend to believe that and agree with you in the sense that we know that the Celtics have been aggressive with making moves, and as you said, Brad Stevens may be a better front office executive than he even was as a very successful head coach. And we tend to forget, like, the Knicks were in real control of that series with a healthy Jayson Tatum. So I think there were some early indications that even with inside the building, Boston may have been looking at that, as we can't just sit here and assume that we were ready to win another title if Jayson Tatum hadn't gotten hurt. The Knicks, who we now look at as a seriously flawed team, were very much in position to win that with a healthy Jayson Tatum. So I tend to agree with that.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, I mean, they stole. They stole game one. I mean, that was. That was a big part of it, sure. And they were in control before Jason Tatum went down. But I think the Porzingis thing was really, you know, it's. I also think it's really interesting what's happened in Dallas. You have a guy who builds a championship roster. They go to the Finals last year, and part of building that was he moved off of Porzingis because Porzingis is always hurt. And then Boston was able to just keep him patched together to win one NBA championship. And, you know, this year, again, he's always hurt. It's always something. So. But yeah, I mean, I think they were going to move on from Porzingis. They were going to move on from Al Horford. They were going to move on probably from Jrue Holiday as well. At the end of the year, regardless of win or loss, I'm sure that was part of their plans.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

All right. To the NFL. Travis Kelsey, he will be back for a 13th season in the NFL and with the Kansas City Chiefs. But his production has dropped off in the last two seasons. And last season, most notably, part of his decision to come back was that he didn't want to go out like that. He felt like he let his teammates down. Well, Brett Veach, general manager of the Kansas City Chiefs, had this to say about Travis Kelce at the end of his career and where he's at at this point as a playmaker saying, quote, the great ones know how to find it. They know where it's buried. They know how to access it. They can't access it at that age week in and week out, but when they need it, they know how to find it. This might be it. That's sometimes what we're like with Travis, but when the games are most important and the lights are the brightest, he finds it somewhere.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, that's about right. Right. That's about right. Like, he doesn't have it on a daily basis, but when needed, he can still dial it up. I think Kansas City's gonna be interesting, right, because they continue to figure out a way to get it done despite the fact that they don't over. You know, there's not playmakers that strike fear in people's hearts. So, again, I. I'm interested. And the other part to it is most. Most NFL people will tell you, like, once you start to think about reading retired, you are. I think he's really thought about it. So, again, be interested to see how he comes back from it.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Yeah, to your point. So what we will be interesting to see about Travis this upcoming season is the production dipped slightly two seasons ago, but what we saw in the regular season wasn't the same as during the postseason where he had those big moments. This year, it just felt like the production had really dropped off and he wasn't totally able to tap into that next gear quite like he had the previous season. Now he has taken full ownership of it. He's admitted that, you know, in the offseason, he could have done better with taking care of his body. And he's taken a different approach this year, so we'll see if he can sort of turn back the clock. But it feels like for a guy playing that position at this age, at this point in his career, it would be hard to sort of reverse course from where the trend is headed. But obviously, for someone who's been as productive and successful as he's been in his career and with Pat Mahomes throwing him the ball, it's not impossible. We'll wrap up with this. Staying in the NFL. T.J. watt holding firm on wanting a new contract that pays him in line or more than Myles Garrett, who now makes 40 million per year on average. Well, Adam Schefter reporting, the two sides still far apart on a new deal. Watt has been withholding from team activities in hopes of that new deal and has at least stated, not publicly, but the expectation is that he would be willing to hold out of training camp or hold in whatever they do these days to get that new deal.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, I think, I think Pittsburgh you mentioned, Collins mentioned it going all in. I think they want to let the season play out and then figure out what's what, who they want to keep, what they don't. And there's a world where they light a match and start over, including the coaching staff. There's a world in which they have a great season and even Aaron Rodgers did leave the door slightly cracked. I think it's my last season. We'll see. And that's Rye Music with news.

[Ryan Music]

Well, that's the news and thanks for.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Stopping by The Herd lie News it's that time of year where there's an overhyped fake game that brings you to the TV to watch summer league in the NBA. What game is it this year and what should proper expectations be towards Bronny James? I will tell you next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Herd.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Ryan Music]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Katie Couric]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

Doug Alleyman for Collins the Hurt fox sports radio iHeartradio app. Let's, let's discuss this NBA summer league stuff. So you got the stats there, Ryan Music for Ronnie in two summer league games. Now, first summer league game, had 10 at the half, ended up with 10. Didn't play huge minutes but did play enough and then played yesterday and really struggled. Right. What was the combined stats that you had?

[TJ Hushmanzada]

So, yeah, he hasn't played heavy minutes in either game. But if you combine them, he has played 26 minutes over two games. He scored 12 points. But it's the shooting and the lack of efficiency which has become a problem because he's 4 of 12 from the field, 2 of 7 from 3.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah. And he shot, I think an airball or two in yesterday's game. They played at the, at the Warriors Arena. Here's the reality to it, okay? And somehow I know that every time we post something, you get to the why are you talking about LeBron or Bronny or whatever? Like. Well, we talk about lots of topics. Bronnie James and Cooper flag on opposing teams on opening night of summer league is going to be a thing. And what we talk about on Fox Sports Radio are the things are the important things. We don't dilly dally on things that people don't care about. That's what bad radio, bad sports radio networks do. We focus on what people talk about the most. They'll be talking about that. So the expectations for a second year pro, and these are reasonable expectations, are for you to dominate in summer league. You've played in the NBA. You've played against the best, you've practiced against the best. You've been through an NBA season. You know, whatever sets you're running. Again, they're not running anything ornate, but you've done it on an NBA floor. You know all the tricks. You get a little bit more respect from the officials. The expectations are for you to be dominant, the best player on the floor. Now, here's why it's unrealistic for Bronny James. He might have had one G League game like that this year maybe. And I mean, I never watched him outside of videos prior to when he moved to Los Angeles, but I saw him play in high school in AAU in Los Angeles. And there was never a time which he was absolutely the best player on a high school floor nor on a college floor. And so it does feel like unrealistic expectations that he'll be the best player on a summer league floor. Not because you're not supposed to. When you're an NBA player, you are, but because that's never been him. As for Cooper Flagg, I am intrigued by how he's used, how he's played. We have seen him dominate at every. Again, here's the difference, right? Here's a kid who was the best player when he played 16s, was the best player last summer, was the best player at Duke, and at times this year, college basketball floors, he was the best player. Does that mean he'll be the best player? No. Opening nights, we've seen Wemby struggle opening night. Now he just got off a plane from France. We've seen other guys like LeBron dominated opening nights. Obviously, he's LeBron. He's a little bit different. But usually number one picks are sort of like golf. A round of golf. There's one or two things that make you want to come back. Oh, oh, oh, there's something there. So proper expectations for Cooper flag are one or two things. Proper expectations for Bronny James are, hey, dude, at some point, you gotta be best player on the floor. You played in the NBA last season, and you're playing against 80% of those guys are not NBA players. Maybe more, may more. And you had three more years of guaranteed deals. And I. And I, you know, you can't undersell this enough. Like, the Lakers spent most of this year with their G League team focusing on the development of Bronny James, which I'm sure is part of kind of this recent pushback where they're like, not really about LeBron, which is like, dude, really, like, you're not all for us, all for winning a championship. And we basically create, you know, changed our G League roster. And he traveled sometime, didn't travel for the first part of the year, then did travel some, that he's called up a bunch. Then we played him some in the NBA. Like, we did all these things for Bronny James. Like, he's not really an NBA player. And then, oh, yeah, by the way, you have there. You have red. Various people who covered the NBA have said, hey, expectations are that they think next year he'll be in the rotation. If you're an NBA rotational player, you should be dominating summer league. I play with the Lakers in the summer league. Slava Medvedenko and Devin George were dominant. They took all the shots, they had all the points. They knew all the sets. They knew Everything. And they were bit players on those Lakers teams. That's how it works. Hasn't changed, won't change. And that, that first year, but that first summer between rookie year and second year, that's the most important summer of your NBA career. You got to make big strides, and the first big strides you got to make is dominating the summer league. It's just a mentality thing that has to match up to your skill set. And my issue with it is only we haven't seen him do that before, so the likelihood of him doing it doesn't feel great.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Doug, to your point about the attention and the interest in this upcoming game between the Mavericks and the Lakers in the summer league, Anthony Slater, who we had on earlier on the show, pointed this out, but some of these statistics online floating about is that the average ticket price for a summer league game that counts for absolutely nothing is going for about $223, and courtside seats are looking to be over $3,000.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah. First of all, just so we're aware, I don't buy that. I, I, I, I, I know what's being reported and, but again, like, I don't really. Do you think anybody's really shelling out 3, 000 bucks? Maybe?

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Yeah, I feels hard.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I believe.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Here's the, here's now part of it.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Also, remember, that event is a kind of a who's who of it's. This is like the NBA's convention, right? Free agents meet there, agents meet there. You have international agents. Are there, international teams come to scout because most of those players will go, go play overseas, whatever it is. And that opening night is a who's who. And you know, I mean, like, look, Cooper Flag is going to, I mean, Kyrie is going to be there. I'm sure the guess is LeBron's going to be there. Right. So you're not necessarily just buying a ticket to watch the game. You're buying a ticket to like, Right. Basically going to a club before everybody goes out to a club.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Exactly. And that's what I was going to say is the only reason I'm willing to buy that this is a possibility is because it's in Vegas. So if I'm gonna believe that guys go to Vegas and they'll drop ten grand on a table in a nightclub to pop bottles of champagne, which from the supermarket go for much less than that. I fully believe that in order to flex those same muscles as a, hey, look at me. Why wouldn't someone drop a couple thousand dollars to be able to be courtside to watch Cooper flag and be able to sit next to LeBron James.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah. Although you'll never get next to LeBron James. Right. And sure. And you're going to watch Cooper flag and maybe he plays 20 minutes and whatever.

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Again, I'm not saying it's a smart thing to do, but I totally see it happening. For sure.

[Doug Gottlieb]

If you have $2,500 in Vegas, is that the best way to allocate your resources?

[TJ Hushmanzada]

Absolutely not. But there's a lot of things, there's a lot of poor financial decisions happening.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah. Correct. It is a. It is a. It is a. It's like my old college coach Eddie said. We played in Vegas against UNLV two years in a row on the road, and both years we got off the planet. He's like, man, look at them skyscrapers, brother. They don't keep building them because the house loses. There's, that is the land. It's not just Sin City, but the land of bad financial decisions. All right, if you missed any of today's show, check out the podcast. Meanwhile, future dates, listen to the Doug Gottlieb Show. This is the Herd on Fox Sports Radio.

[Katie Couric]

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[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Jasmine Crockett, Democratic representative of Texas. She's holding down the fort for her party in one of the most conservative states in the union. I think that ultimately who will become the Democratic nominee for president will be someone that has been out there and has shown that they won't allow themselves to be punched and just say thank you like they will punch back. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Katie Couric]

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