Hour 3 - NBA playoffs

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 3: NBA Playoffs
Release Date: April 23, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Description: The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers a thought-provoking and opinionated journey through the top sports stories of the day. In this episode, Colin Cowherd and his co-host Jason McIntyre delve deep into the exciting developments of the NBA Playoffs, analyzing team performances, player dynamics, and strategic adjustments that are shaping the postseason landscape.

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1. Opening Remarks and Initial Game Analyses ([02:28] - [07:35])

Jason McIntyre:
The episode kicks off with an analysis of the recent Lakers vs. Wolves game, highlighting the physicality and officiating that left fans and analysts debating the game's intensity.

Rachel Nichols:
"The physicality was immense. I don't think the NBA will put it in their 'greatest games ever officiated' category." ([02:43])

Discussion Highlights:

• Lakers' Adjustments:
  The Lakers made a significant defensive adjustment against Anthony Edwards, playing a zone-like defense that limited Edwards' impact and passing effectiveness. This strategy resulted in Edwards recording zero assists in the game.
  "They forced him not only to not be able to get to the basket the way he wanted to... his assist numbers came down to 0." ([03:25])

• Wolves' Performance:
  The Wolves appeared less determined in their second outing, showing sloppiness and early foul trouble for Nasreen, which hindered their gameplay.
  "It's a fun adjustment to the adjustment to the adjustment." ([03:27])

• J.J. Redick's Impact:
  Redick's aggressive playstyle was a focal point, particularly his intense timeout that showcased his fiery demeanor.
  "There were so many curse words in the first like 10 seconds of the timeout... he only gets that angry a handful of times." ([03:58])

• LeBron James' Leadership:
  LeBron's strategic play and defensive intelligence continue to be pivotal for the Lakers. His ability to manage his energy and extend his career by leveraging younger talents like Luka Doncic was discussed extensively.
  "His intensity is what has really helped the Lakers throughout this season." ([04:10])

2. Kawhi Leonard and Clippers' Playstyle ([05:20] - [07:35])

Jason McIntyre:
Moving to the Clippers, McIntyre compares Kawhi Leonard to a hypothetical Michael Jordan, emphasizing Leonard's unique skill set and defensive prowess when healthy.
"If you took Kobe's personality, creativity, durability and gave it to Kawhi strength and hand size, there's your Michael Jordan." ([05:56])

Key Points:

• Health Concerns:
  Leonard's injury history raises questions about the Clippers' long-term prospects despite their current form.
  "There is a waiting for the other shoe to drop sense with this playoff run." ([06:28])

• Clippers' Defense and Offense:
  Recognized for their stingy defense and explosive offensive stars like James Harden and Kawhi, the Clippers remain a formidable team if Leonard stays healthy.
  "He is as good as anyone in the top, top tier elite conversation when he's healthy." ([07:24])

3. Knicks vs. Pistons Series and Cade Cunningham’s Role ([07:35] - [09:54])

Jason McIntyre:
The discussion transitions to the Knicks-Pistons series, focusing on Cade Cunningham's emergence as a pivotal player. McIntyre praises Cunningham's maturity and leadership, suggesting he has the potential to become a top-10 NBA player soon.
"Cade Cunningham is the best player in this series. He's in remarkable talent now." ([07:35])

Insights:

• Team Dynamics:
  Cunningham's ability to distribute the ball and involve his teammates has been crucial for the Pistons' performance.
  "The way he has grown... encouraged the younger players... given up certain things to get other guys involved has been just so high level." ([09:16])

• Future Prospects:
  While the Knicks may advance, McIntyre expresses skepticism about their ability to make a deep run against powerhouse teams like the Celtics.
  "I do not expect them, if they do win the series, I don't expect them to make a dent in the second round." ([08:28])

4. Player Perceptions and Polls ([09:54] - [12:24])

Jason McIntyre:
McIntyre addresses anonymous polls where players voted Tyrese Haliburton as the most overrated NBA player. He scrutinizes the validity of such polls, noting the small sample size and the subjective nature of player opinions.
"Only 12 out of 450 players thought he was the most overrated." ([10:59])

Discussion Highlights:

• Tyrese Haliburton:
  Despite being labeled overrated by a few, Haliburton's performance remains commendable. His humor and self-awareness help him navigate criticism.
  "Tyrese is an excellent player... he has enough good humor and sense of himself and confidence that this isn't going to rattle him." ([11:26])

• Cade Cunningham’s Underrated Status:
  Cunningham was also highlighted as the most underrated player, emphasizing his significant role in the Pistons' resurgence.
  "Cade is the engine of that team. He's a huge part of their turnaround." ([09:54])

• NBA's Competitive Nature:
  The conversation touches on the petty dynamics within the NBA, contrasting with more collective team-focused surveys in other sports like the NFL.
  "NBA is such a petty league. These guys are so petty." ([12:24])

5. LeBron James and the Lakers’ Strategic Evolution ([15:21] - [18:25])

Jason McIntyre:
McIntyre revisits the Lakers’ strategy, particularly LeBron James' reliance on younger talents like Anthony Davis and Luka Doncic to sustain the team's competitiveness while managing his own legacy.
"LeBron wants wins." ([16:16])

Key Points:

• Energy Management:
  LeBron strategically uses his energy and defensive IQ to impact games without overexerting himself, which is crucial given his age and career longevity.
  "He made sure that defensively he was still so on point, just with his iq, the effort on defense." ([17:30])

• Future Implications:
  Speculation surrounds whether the Lakers can capture more titles and how this might influence LeBron’s standing in the all-time greats conversation.
  "What if he gets two more titles, and then the Jordan conversation starts up again in a very different way." ([17:31])

6. Upcoming Games and Team Strategies ([18:25] - [20:40])

Jason McIntyre and Unknown Speaker:
The hosts preview upcoming playoff games, predicting heightened physicality and intense matchups. Highlights include:

• Boston vs. Orlando:
  Anticipation of heated confrontations and strategic adjustments.

• Clippers vs. Nuggets:
  Praise for the Clippers’ full-court pressure and defensive tactics, contrasting with the Nuggets' less disciplined approach.

Notable Quote:
"The NBA needs scoring. You can't have these 87, 84 games in the playoffs. That's not good for business." ([20:24])

7. Atlanta Hawks and Trae Young’s Future ([20:40] - [23:53])

Jason McIntyre:
The conversation shifts to the Atlanta Hawks, particularly focusing on Trae Young’s contract and the potential for the Hawks to move away from their star player.
"Trae Young is not a winning player." ([21:42])

Discussion Highlights:

• Contract Considerations:
  With the new CBA and escalating player salaries, the Hawks might reconsider extending Young’s contract despite his on-court prowess.
  "If you want to build a team, you can't pay your wide receivers too much. Similarly, NBA teams might hesitate to offer exorbitant contracts to individual stars like Trae." ([22:25])

• Team Dynamics:
  The Hawks’ management might prioritize team balance over individual star power, especially considering past experiences with high-maintenance players.
  "There are some interesting things happening behind the scenes in the NBA." ([22:48])

8. Oklahoma City Thunder Dominance ([23:53] - [24:50])

Jason McIntyre:
Highlighting the Oklahoma City Thunder’s unprecedented performance, McIntyre praises their dominance over the Memphis Grizzlies.
"OKC has absolutely dominated hapless Memphis." ([23:53])

Key Points:

• Point Differential:
  The Thunder hold a +70 point differential in the series, marking one of the largest in NBA playoff history.

• Future Challenges:
  The discussion speculates on which Western Conference teams can challenge the Thunder’s formidable performance.
  "Who's challenging OKC in the West? Lakers. Clippers." ([24:06])

9. Concluding Discussions and Insights ([24:50] - [38:05])

Jason McIntyre and Colin Cowherd:
The episode wraps up with a blend of light-hearted banter, advertising snippets, and crossover discussions touching on the NFL Draft, team trades, and player potential. Highlights include:

• Draft Predictions:
  McIntyre shares his mock draft insights, targeting key picks and potential trades that could reshape teams' futures.

• Player Evaluations:
  Detailed analysis of players like Jackson Dart and George Pickens, debating their draft prospects and team fit.

Notable Quote:
"Never move up in the draft. I think I would take Pickens for a year again." ([35:01])

Final Thoughts:
McIntyre emphasizes the importance of strategic drafting and team-building, highlighting the unpredictable nature of player development and team chemistry.

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, hosts Colin Cowherd and Jason McIntyre provide an in-depth analysis of the NBA Playoffs, covering key games, player performances, and strategic adjustments. From LeBron James' enduring leadership with the Lakers to Kawhi Leonard's critical role for the Clippers, the discussion offers valuable insights for basketball enthusiasts. Additionally, the episode touches on broader NBA trends, including player valuations and team dynamics, making it a comprehensive guide for those seeking to understand the current playoff landscape.

Notable Quotes:

• "His intensity is what has really helped the Lakers throughout this season." – Rachel Nichols ([07:35])
• "If you took Kobe's personality, creativity, durability and gave it to Kawhi strength and hand size, there's your Michael Jordan." – Jason McIntyre ([05:56])
• "Cade Cunningham is the engine of that team. He's a huge part of their turnaround." – Unknown Speaker ([09:54])

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary encapsulates the critical discussions and expert opinions that drive the conversation around the NBA Playoffs, providing a clear and engaging overview of the episode's content.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC look around.

[Jason McIntyre]

Every car you see is probably on Auto Trader.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like that sleek convertible that turned heads.

[Jason McIntyre]

When it picked you up from the airport or the custom ride from your favorite van. Life couple on social media. Even that vintage sports car that's tailing you a little too closely. New cars, used cars, electric cars, even flying cars.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, no flying cars yet, but as.

[Jason McIntyre]

Soon as those get invented, they'll be on autotrader. If you see a car you like.

[Colin Cowherd]

It'S probably on AutoTrader. That's kind of their thing.

[Rachel Nichols]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon.

[Colin Cowherd]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific.

[Jason McIntyre]

Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Unknown Speaker]

Now let's get this party started.

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason McIntyre]

Good series. The Knicks could be in real trouble. Now it goes to Detroit. Last night, Rachel Nichols joining US FOX SPORTS NBA ANALYST the physicality it was. I don't think the NBA will put it in their greatest games ever officiated category.

[Unknown Speaker]

No.

[Jason McIntyre]

So what adjustments did the Lakers make, in your opinion?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, they made one really important adjustment on Anthony Edwards. He said after the game, he said, they kind of played me like a zone. And he acknowledged, he said, it was a little confusing for me. Coaches will call that a box and elbow more than a zone, but whatever you want to call it, they loaded up on him. They forced him not only to not be able to get to the basket the way he wanted to, and he did in the first game, but when he was passing out of that multiple coverage, he wasn't really passing out in sort of the disciplined, smart assists we saw him in game one. He was just getting rid of the ball. And because of that, it then had to go around to two or three other people. And that's why you saw him with no assist.

[Jason McIntyre]

And his assist numbers, yeah, they came down 0.

[Unknown Speaker]

0 assists last night. So I think that that is something that the Wolves will game plan for. You know, it's a fun like adjustment to the adjustment to the adjustment. And what we'll see in game three with that will be interesting. The Wolves in general were pretty sloppy the whole game. Nasreed got into some early foul trouble, which definitely hurt what they wanted to do out there. And I just think there was a little bit of, hey, we won game one, and they just didn't come out as determined. And you understand all of that, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

How do you think J.J. redick's done so far?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, man, I mean, I thought the Lakers in general looked great, especially to open the game last night. You know, obviously they tailed off a little bit toward the end, but Jackson, J.J. was on them all of the time. I don't know if you saw there was a timeout that he had.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, he was furious.

[Unknown Speaker]

Let's call it colorful language. I don't know if we have a video around, but there were so many curse words in that first like 10 seconds of the timeout that I asked him about it after the game and he said, look, I only get that angry, you know, a handful of times.

[Jason McIntyre]

That was in like the 61, 50 something.

[Unknown Speaker]

Exactly. The wolves have made a run and there you can see it. We won't say we won't use the sound for people listening on the radio because this is a family show. But I will say that it was very noticeable. And he claimed, you know, I only get that angry a few times this season. LeBron was a little more descriptive. He said, we expect JJ to spaz out every once in a while. That was the quote. But I think his intensity is what has really helped the Lakers throughout this season. And as a first time coach. These are his first ever playoff games. He's coaching. The fact that he's such a student of the game, that he's so into all of these adjustments, that's a big part of how he coaches. I think he's going to really thrive here. He did say he found himself between games watching Wolves versus Utah footage. Utah, by the way, tanking team that never give him any information. And he finally like pulled away. It's like, what am I doing, man?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, I think the one thing about jj, he plays big. And L A Lakers have run through some coaches. This is a bigger market. We're not as angry as Philadelphia. But he plays big. Yeah, he's smart, he plays big. He's got the trust of his best players. And I, and I talk about this, you can see their game plan. They're a very good first quarter team.

[Unknown Speaker]

Absolutely.

[Jason McIntyre]

Which always tells me they've watched a ton of tape, they practiced hard, they've implemented it. This is not a team that eases its way in like a well coached football team. I always feel like when the Lakers like, oh, I see what they're trying to do, you, you could tell their physicality, like first possession.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

So the Kawhi Leonard thing is fascinating. Kawhi Leonard and I said this. If you took Kobe's personality, creativity, durability and you gave it to Kawhi strength and hand size. There's your Michael Jordan. He, his mid range game, his hand size. Like there are no pick and rolls needed. Like I'm. You just send Gordon at me. You can send Porter at me like I got it. But I always with the Clippers, I'm like, yeah, I just don't know how long it's going to last.

[Unknown Speaker]

There's no way to know. By the way, you know the last time Kawhi Leonard ended a postseason healthy? Take a guess. I'm putting on the spot.

[Jason McIntyre]

2018, little later than that.

[Unknown Speaker]

2020 in the bubble, which by the way, the Clippers then just let go of the rope that summer. But it has been five years since he ended his season healthy. So there is a waiting for the other shoe to drop sense with this playoff run. Is there going to be a game in this round? In the next round, however, they get where Kawhi sort of pulls up and then we don't see him again if he can stay healthy. I think this is an incredibly dangerous Clippers team. They have one of the stingiest defenses in the NBA. You've got two offensive stars can go fireball at any point. We saw it from James Harden in one, we saw it from Kawhi in game two. And when Kawhi is on that game six he had against Dallas, some of the games that won him two Finals MVPs.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And the game the other night, he is as good as anyone in the top, top tier elite conversation when he's healthy. But that's a very important part of the sentence.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I think my takeaway on the Knicks Pistons series is, oh, Cade Cunningham is the best player in this series. He's in a remarkable talent now. He was a number one pick. But as we know in the NFL, a guy comes in, he's often married, he's 24, he's got NBA. The great players are 19, they can't go to the hotel bar. And it's often like we're seeing it with Jaylen Green, like he hasn't developed a half court offense much like you see these guys develop. So Cade was always good, he was always a scorer. But I watch these games, I'm like, no, that's, that's what a star looks like. Like he gets a shot whenever he wants. Are the, are the Knicks in a little trouble here?

[Unknown Speaker]

I think they will end up pulling this series out just for, you know, all the reasons that everyone picked them for this series. I do not expect them, if they do win the series, I don't expect them to make a dent in the second round. If they play the Celtics, I mean, I think that could get, be over.

[Jason McIntyre]

Very, very clearly played in six of the eight quarters so far.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. So, you know, look, I said on your show last week, like Detroit has a chance here. People were giving them no chance. They have a chance. The way they play, the veteran presence there, complimenting the young guys. And you're right, Cade Cunningham, he's not only is an elite, elite player for his age. Right. And his development level, but he's got such a great NBA body. And I love Jalen Brunson as a player. I think he does some pretty amazing things. And that kid has such amazing heart. We saw it in game one. But he is small and there is a point where the balance with him and the other players on the team, you have to put the right pieces around him. And we'll see if Karl Anthony Towns, if they can get a figure out a way to shake him a little more free with the defenses playing against him. And that's part Thibodeau and part him being more aggressive.

[Jason McIntyre]

So, yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's funny about this. That's analogous of nothing. I was having a discussion about two months ago with somebody that loves the NBA. We were talking about Jalen Suggs. People had him as a bus two years out of Gonzaga. And I'm like, guys, yeah, These guys are 19 years old. He played football, you know, like, give him time. And then all of a sudden, Jalen hugs. They figured out Suggs, they figured out, oh, he does this well, this well. He's not a number one. Paul Bunkaro will be that. But it's like now everybody's like, oh, man, they really miss him. So sometimes with Kade Cunningham, you're in Detroit, you're losing a bunch of games, you're running through coaches and everybody labels you, like, talented. But. But you watch this series, you're like, oh, like that that's going to be a top 10 player in the league next year.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, like, yeah, maybe. I mean, we'll see if his development continues. But yeah, he is definitely the engine of that team. He's a huge part of their turnaround. And it's not just been what his growth and maturity on the floor, off the court. If you talk to everyone in that franchise, they say that the way he has grown, the way he's encouraged the younger players, the way he's given up certain things in, you know, in the course of the game plan to get other guys involved has been just so high level for a guy his age. And I think we'll see that through his development.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I. We have anonymous polls in politics, in sports, so Rick Carlile's furious. He called it shameful that Tyrese Haliburton was the most overrated player. Some of it, I think, is he's not labeled as cool by the players. Steph Curry, by the way, for years was sort of like, yeah, he's good, but because he didn't married, kids, golf, he didn't care. And there, there is an optic, there is an aesthetic to this league, which it's lasted since Spencer Haywood and Dr. J. That's why I fell in love with the NBA. They were cool players. So what was your take as a whole on the anonymous poll? I mostly agreed with the players.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I mean, look, I thought the athletic did a good job of being very transparent about how many guys voted in each situation. And so for the overrated player that you're talking about with Tyrese, only 90 guys voted. This is a league of 450 players. That means if you look at the percentages, 12 guys in the NBA thought he was the most overrated. 12. So I don't know how much you can take that. Obviously, Tyrese is an excellent player.

[Jason McIntyre]

Cate Cunningham, most underrated.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, well, look again. Very trendy. Pick there for that, too. Tyrese is the reason they're up 20 in that series and I think he has good humor about it. Remember after the Olympics he tweeted when you didn't do anything for the group project, but you still get an A? And so because he didn't play during the Olympics, I think that he has enough good humor and sense of himself and confidence that this isn't going to rattle him. The biggest thing I think about a poll like this is the NBA is such a petty lead. Colin. Yeah, these guys are so petty. So when we have those NFL surveys and it's like which team has the best locker room facilities, which team has the best training staff, the best ownership, That's a big out, a collective team and sort of what the team is doing. This survey is about a lot of individual players and you see those individual, as you said, other guys like him. Some guys don't like him. I want to vote for my friend. I just think you have to take it when it's individual players in a petty NBA, you got to take all of it with a grain of salt.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Colin Cowherd]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimum on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way.

[Jason McIntyre]

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, really?

[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks.

[Colin Cowherd]

Capital One Bank Guy what's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC at.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I want to circle back to the Lakers. One more thing is that I said this at the top. My opening rant was that LeBron wanted AD offensively to kind of take the baton a little. Yes, and ad's body got better and his defense is amazing. But I've always said LeBron identifies guys that can allow him to kind of glide until the 4th. I think he identified very early Steph. He flirted with him. Steph wasn't leaving. I think he knows the outletting and play of Jokic would have let him coast. And then I think he looked at Luka for years and thought, oh, Luka's great. He started complimenting him an hour after he made the League, he was like, I'm going to be around a while, and when I watch him. Last night was classic. Luka 31, LeBron 21. And LeBron could care less. At this point, I would argue LeBron wants wins.

[Unknown Speaker]

Look, I think LeBron had to start that game with a ton of energy, just from a leadership standpoint, which we saw. And then throughout the game, look, he's 40. He talked about it after the game. Your body is not the same as when you were younger in terms of stamina, but he made sure that defensively he was still so on point, just with his iq, the effort on defense, gathering guys in the right places. And as someone who has been literally courtside watching him his whole career, it's sort of a funny thing. That's kind of how he came into the league. Obviously, he's developed the three pointer and the shot and all of that, but as you say, he's not using it in the same way as he did in his prime. It's really about being smart, delivering the energy when he smartly knows that it's most valuable and he needs to. And then defensively, having those core principles that he came into the league being so good at. So it's funny to see that go full circle. It's also funny to see with Luka. I think this is going to extend LeBron's career. I mean, there was a time in the middle of the season where we were thinking, yeah, maybe this is it. He's played with his kid, he's done what he's wanted to do, maybe he'll do the one more year on his contract. Now you've got his younger son, Bryce, who's going to be at Arizona next year and then potentially in the league the next year. There's a lot of people who think he's better than Bronny was at that age.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's what they say.

[Unknown Speaker]

And maybe he's going to stick around and then, I don't know. Do the Lakers get two of the next five titles? Is this going to be a KD to the warriors kind of impact on the league? I don't know. But if that happens and LeBron hangs around for some of that, LeBron, is he going to have as many as Kobe? Is it going to change that conversation? What if. And there's a lot of dominoes that would have to fall. What if, because Luka's on his team and LeBron can extend his career a few years, what if he gets two more and then the Jordan conversation starts up again in A very different way. So I think this has had such a huge impact on LeBron, as you said. I don't think he's mad at all about this. I think he is thrilled to have another guy on the team who's younger, who can do everything the way he wants it done, and then he can sort of pick his spots. And again, picking his spots doesn't just mean in a game. I think it could mean for extending his career a lot longer. We'll have to see.

[Jason McIntyre]

Rachel Nichols, always a pleasure. J. Mack with the news.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

All right, let's get started with Jason Tatum. Colin. Unfortunately, he is listed as doubtful for game two tonight with an injury. Boston has not been happy with the physicality in this series. Al Warford calling out dudes after the game. I'm not sure what goes into it with it. The only thing I would say is that it is the playoffs. So, you know, the game's going to be more physical, it's going to be more intense. I feel like those plays are probably going to happen more often than not. Al.

[Jason McIntyre]

Al Horford should be a GM senatorial.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is he.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, he. Honest to God, if you put a suit and tie on him and you hear the governor of Massachusetts, he's such a grown up.

[Unknown Speaker]

He called out KCP for what some called a dirty foul on Tatum when he was in the air. I think tonight's game's going to be a little heated.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Unknown Speaker]

Got some dudes. I don't know if. I mean, the spread's coming down a little ten and a half. I'm not touching that just because I think.

[Jason McIntyre]

Don't. No.

[Unknown Speaker]

Tatum.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, listen there. This Detroit Knicks games in. In Detroit.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Not feeling great. Is that tomorrow night?

[Jason McIntyre]

I think it's tomorrow night. There's a couple of these series. Minnesota Lakers is going to be physical. Detroit, New York's gonna be physical. Boston, Orlando's weirdly physical. And they're in. The refs let them play in the playoffs.

[Unknown Speaker]

So unders are 10 and 3 so far. A lot of physicality in. I don't. I'll be honest, I don't love it like visually. Lakers Wolves last night. Did you think that was a visually appealing.

[Jason McIntyre]

I thought it was visually appealing. The problem with that game is that Minnesota just. Neither team was very good from three. The Lakers were, by the way, 20 of 20 from the free throw line. They never missed a free throw. It wasn't artistic. But I gotta tell you something. I Like intense basketball. So I will trade scoring for intensity.

[Unknown Speaker]

Can't you have both? The intense. Just don't grab the ball.

[Jason McIntyre]

Clippers Nuggets is the best series so far.

[Unknown Speaker]

Listen, neither of those teams is playing great defense. They're not, no.

[Jason McIntyre]

But the games are physical. There's a. I mean, the battles for rebounds in that series are intense.

[Unknown Speaker]

So you're in on Chris Finch, a great coach. He's. He's picking up the Lakers full court the entire game.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I don't know what's going to do that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, the Lakers started to do the same thing last night with Gabe Vincent. And I'm like, you watch the Clippers Nuggets, they're not doing that. It's just like, let's just cram it in the half court. Full court defense. That's my style. That's what I kind of like to do. And it's like rugged and we're in your face and we're going to be grinding all game. NBA needs scoring. You can't have these 87, 84 games in the playoffs. That's not good for business. Right, Right. You agree with me. We need offense. All right, next up, Colin, let's go to. Okay, I love this story. The Atlanta Hawks, so obviously they got bounced in the plan again. GM Landry Fields got fired. They got a new guy in there. And Colin, we're starting to hear the chatter you like to see around corners. Trae Young's up for an extension this offseason. He posted on ig, kind of a, this won't happen again. I will be back in the playoffs. And there is a momentum that, hey, maybe the Hawks should not extend Trae Young and they should just be like, we're going to get out of the Trey Young business.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I think. Yeah. You know, the thing about Trey, I like his game, but there, there are arguments. He's not a winning player.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, he was early. Remember when they went to the conference finals?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes. He had a. He had a great rookie year, wasn't it? Rookie year for rookie, second year.

[Unknown Speaker]

He was great early.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, but there's, there's. He doesn't want to defend and he's going to kind of do his thing and he can get emotional, a bit pouty on the floor. Floor. He had a really bad. Was against Orlando, got ejected.

[Unknown Speaker]

So, you know, you look at the Luca situation, when Dallas, they said, basically, we don't want to pay this guy all this money. That was one of the reasons. Well, now you start to wonder, are the Hawks feeling The same way.

[Jason McIntyre]

Because with the new cba, if you've made all NBA or, or all star games, you can be paid so much that owners consider now everything. I mean, Luke had been hurt back to back years. Luke is a bad defensive player. Even though he'd made the finals, there was a feeling like, do we want to pay him somebod million a year? So Trey Young is not a guy. I'm going to pay 60 million plus a year and I like him. I'm not paying that.

[Unknown Speaker]

So in the NFL, we talked about a wide receiver bubble. Remember we were early on.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's a star bubble. Star bubble.

[Unknown Speaker]

If guys are just getting paid too much, like I can't build a team when you know my wide receiver is making 35 million. I don't know that the Hawks and some other teams around the league are going to be like, Trey, here's $50 million. I, I feel like we're starting to see this slide on NBA salaries. We saw with Luka. Madge didn't want to pay him the 365 or whatever. And I think Atlanta's probably next and I think after that will be Zion. There's some interesting things happening behind the scenes in the NBA. Colin, keep an eye on that. One final story. If there ever was an argument to change the first round series back to five Thunder Grizzlies is Exhibit A. OKC has absolutely dominated hapless Memphis for the second straight game. Point differential is plus 70 now. We knew Oklahoma City was good. I didn't know they were this good and just murdering and embarrassing. Memphis. The second largest point differential through two games in a playoff series in NBA history. Look at, look who was number one. The 86 Lakers. Like Magic Johnson era.

[Jason McIntyre]

They're minus eight and a half in Memphis. Yeah, I think, I think I would take OKC if I had to.

[Unknown Speaker]

So again, it's just two games. Who's challenging OKC in the West?

[Jason McIntyre]

Lakers.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't even know if the Lakers are beating the Wolves or the Warriors.

[Jason McIntyre]

Clippers. You said challenging Clippers. I think Clippers are pretty good. Clippers are going to beat the Nuggets.

[Unknown Speaker]

I do like that that fight is.

[Jason McIntyre]

That Sunday when they play.

[Unknown Speaker]

They play. Listen, Thursday night. Yeah, Thursday night. Same night as the draft. You're going to need multiple TVs. You just ignore the NBA total.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't ignore the NBA.

[Unknown Speaker]

Nick Pistons, game three, Big one, Thunder, Grizzlies, you could skip that.

[Jason McIntyre]

And then Nuggets, Pistons, Knicks is going to Be on very early. So I'll watch that before the draft. I'll watch the first half.

[Unknown Speaker]

4:00. That's a good fall.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. So all the Draft starts at 5, but it'll start about 5:15 or something.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you? Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Tomorrow is an all timer bas baby.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. No Ubereats for you. No alcohol.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I. I have. Not tonight. I'm gonna go out and have a cocktail.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh really?

[Jason McIntyre]

I haven't. I've been very good.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Focus. I don't like to watch blurry games.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, no. Not a multiple night TV guy.

[Jason McIntyre]

No. Give me a Pacifico with a lime in it. Little cold brew, little smash burger. I'm good. J Mac with news and thanks.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Herd lie news.

[Jason McIntyre]

I am telling you my phone. You never sent me that thing you told me you're gonna send me my phone. There is stuff happening, my friends.

[Unknown Speaker]

Why don't you hit up some of your GM buddies?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, I already am.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, are they talking to you or are they going radio silent? Zero dark draft.

[Jason McIntyre]

They. They will not talk to me now. But I. I have questions. There will be two trades in this draft. Now again, I know two teams in the NFC that are trying to move up. That does not mean they'll be made.

[Unknown Speaker]

So can you use your superpowers and get us, assuming the show still exists in a year, into a draft room next year? Honestly, that's on my bucket list. Like it's like Japan being an NFL.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'll get us into the Bears draft room next.

[Unknown Speaker]

Next year. Yeah, well, assuming I'm still here.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, we'll see. We'll see a few.

[Unknown Speaker]

We don't know what'll happen. Who knows what the future.

[Jason McIntyre]

Put your head down. Break some stories once in a while. Maybe bring you back in la. It's the Herd.

[Unknown Speaker]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd. Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app draft coverage.

Yep, with the first pick.

The biggest names that know about every player in every team. You've got it right here. Listen. Fox NFL insider Jay Glazer, former New York jets general manager Joe Douglas, college football hall of Famer and former number two overall pick levar Arrington. And Fox Sports League college football reporter Jenny Taft who deliver the pick by pick coverage.

This is an exciting night.

Foxtraft Night Live lives right here on Fox Sports Radio.

[Colin Cowherd]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees? Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way.

[Jason McIntyre]

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One NA Member.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a better leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders so there's a.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, there's a lot of talk about people moving up, people moving down in the draft, as is generally the case about this time tomorrow's the NFL Draft Starting at, what is it, five Pacific, eight Eastern. Is that what time it starts? I just know I got to be home early in the afternoon. Lance Erlein, who's [e-mail] covering the draft for over 20 years, talked about the buzz he's hearing with Shador Sanders in the New York Giants.

[Lance Zierlein]

I've heard they're in alignment that it's not Shador Sanders. So that's what I've heard. And so I don't think Shador Sanders is in play at three at all. I think they like you to believe it. It seems like there's a lot of teams that want you to believe that they're in on Shador Sanders because they think they're going to elicit a phone call and a trade up. I don't think it's going to happen. I think he goes 21 to the Pittsburgh Steelers. I've heard day ball likes Jackson Dart. And so if that's the case, going from the early second round into the first round for Jackson Dart, somewhere in the 20s, you know, the Vikings don't have a lot of draft picks. The Vikings could be a spot that you trade into for Jackson Dart. That's been a, that's been a targeted spot for me, the 24th pick.

[Jason McIntyre]

Now he mentioned Jackson Dart. So I've said it feels like Zach Wilson, but, you know, maybe a little more talented. Went to the same high school. Here's Lance on what he hears and sees. He's been doing this a long time on Jackson Dart.

[Lance Zierlein]

Well, I've got a third round grade on him.

[Jason McIntyre]

Whoa.

[Lance Zierlein]

Yeah. But I mean, a grade is not where I projected him. I project him first. Second is where I project him. My grade would be third round. I just think that Ole Miss offense is really favorable to quarterbacks. Now, it doesn't mean Jackson Dart can't play. He can play, but he's got an average arm. He's accurate. I think he has. He really has to put something into it. I stood on the field next to him. I wanted to see and feel all those quarterbacks throw at the combine. I mean, he's got to really, you know, get a lot into it to drive the ball. But he is active, accurate, and a lot of coaches like his demeanor. I just think there's a lot of open one on one throws down the field and then there's a lot of stick routes, just quick hitches to Trey Harris on tape as well. So it's, it's harder to get that first round feel for Jackson Dart. For me.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, so if we look at. I'm going to do my last mock draft tomorrow. The first mock draft I do, first 15 picks is what I would do is GM. I didn't include any trades. Tomorrow I'm going to put a trade or two in and it's what I think will happen. So keep your eye on the number five pick. There's a lot of belief Cam Ward, Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter is feeling more and more certain. Are your top three picks starting at about four with New England, five with Jacksonville. Then it can get interesting. So I think Mason Graham may have a lower ceiling. I. If I'm New England and I can go get a guy like Mason Graham, you know, that's right up Vrabel's alley. But keep your eye on New England at 4 and Jacksonville at 5. I am hearing a team that wants to move into that five spot. Okay. And then the other one to keep your eye on is the. The 13 or 14 spot. Miami and the Colts. So Miami has been Jalen Ramsey, Tyreek Hill. They've tried the flashy stuff to no avail.

[Unknown Speaker]

Noise.

[Jason McIntyre]

Lot of noise. Lot of flash. For the distracted Dolphin fans down in South Beach, I think they may go into the trenches.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay, so I know you like Chat GPT, right? Since you keep saying that somebody's going to move up to five and I think anybody with a brain can put it together that somebody must want Ashton Jetty.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes, that's. That's.

[Unknown Speaker]

So I asked chat GPT, can you give me the first round? History in the last 10 years of teams trading up for a running back. It has happened one time. Do you remember the deal? Famous SEC running back. I could hear him say it. The Cleveland Browns traded up for Trent Richardson.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, but that was a dumb move.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wait a minute. Trent Richardson was a superstar at Alabama. He was trucking dudes left and right. You don't trade up for a running back, Colin. And I know obviously Astro Jetti is better than Trent Richardson, but it is extremely risky. That is a position that turns over a lot. Injuries happen. I think it is extremely risky. Like you're putting your job on the line. You straight up for a running back. And it doesn't.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, now this one, I like Jordan Schultz. Our Jordan Schultz is reporting multiple teams have brought up Steelers receiver George Pickens in trade discussions. If I was Pittsburgh, I would move off him tomorrow because I got DK Metcalf.

[Unknown Speaker]

But who's getting in the Pickens business given how lazy at times he was last year? Like, there's videos of him against the Colts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, I know.

[Unknown Speaker]

Pretending to block at the line of scrimmage, just not being interested.

[Jason McIntyre]

Would you make a move one year. George Picken. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'll give you a six round draft pick. I take a flyer. I'm not giving up anything of value for him.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's pretty good. He's a pretty good player.

[Unknown Speaker]

You like to take risks with questionable individuals.

[Jason McIntyre]

You're the Cincinnati Bengals of sportscast.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, stop it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Never move up in the draft. I think I would take Pickens for a year again.

[Unknown Speaker]

Why do you give it up?

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, if I hadn't, I think he's worth a third round pick. If he wasn't temperamental, you could get a first or a second. But he wasn't. Temper.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. If he wasn't. Yeah. If the tariffs didn't exist, my portfolio wouldn't be down 60%. You know, like, come on, man, I just. You like clean. We talked about at the outside of the show.

[Jason McIntyre]

I do, but I'm saying, would I do a one year experiment with Pickens? Yeah, sure. You.

[Unknown Speaker]

You want your Bears getting in the pickets business?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, but the genty business is interesting.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

That one's a kind of Pickens in.

[Unknown Speaker]

That locker room with. With your young franchise quarterback.

[Jason McIntyre]

How about. How about. I mean again, a one year. Pickens is so strong.

[Unknown Speaker]

Front office, like an Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes type. Hey, we'll take a flyer on this guy Rasheed Rice. He's a nightmare. Well, we get.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, I mean the Chiefs are a prime example. They've been burned on immaturity multiple times at receiver and they got off Tyree Kill. He won a big one. I mean, but they've still, they've been. I mean wide receiver is just diva central. It's got. There was. I went for a while where we didn't see it, but in the last couple of years with these guys getting huge money. Yeah, it's been like a wide receiver bubble and whatever it is. We've had a two or three year run and receivers have got really high maintenance.

[Colin Cowherd]

Again.

[Unknown Speaker]

Remember Odell Beckham? Like just weird stuff. Everybody's moving off and the Rams got in the Odell business, won the super bowl with him. But McVeigh and Stafford, like strong culture can handle that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, no, no, I. Pickens is not somebody I'm building around. But would I take a swing for a year? He's a different Buffalo Bills.

[Unknown Speaker]

Josh Allen.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, they've done.

[Unknown Speaker]

They did the digs thing.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it's something. It is something. Draft tomorrow. Rockets warriors tonight. I like Houston looking to transform your.

[Colin Cowherd]

Business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset. Your people. Are you ready to become a better leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycorp.com leaders.

[Jason McIntyre]

The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.

[Unknown Speaker]

We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.

[Jason McIntyre]

Season and how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.

[Unknown Speaker]

So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J]

We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.