Hour 3 - Paul Pierce

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 3: Paul Pierce

Release Date: June 12, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Guests: Paul Pierce, Eric Mangini, J. Mack, among others

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Introduction

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, released on June 12, 2025, Colin welcomes NBA Hall of Famer Paul Pierce to discuss various aspects of current basketball dynamics, including player performances, team strategies, and coaching decisions. The conversation delves deep into the intricacies of the game, offering listeners valuable insights from one of basketball's esteemed veterans.

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Discussion with Paul Pierce

Tyrese Halliburton and Team Dynamics

[03:13] Colin Cowherd:
“One of the things I really like about Tyrese Halliburton is how comfortable he is with TJ McConnell taking over the game or any other young player getting his minutes. I think that's hard for point guards. Steph Curry's like that, but Steph always gets his minutes.”

Colin initiates the conversation by praising Tyrese Halliburton’s selflessness and court awareness. He highlights Halliburton’s intelligence (IQ), emotional intelligence (EQ), and self-awareness, noting how he supports teammates like TJ McConnell. Paul Pierce agrees, emphasizing Halliburton’s unique, unorthodox style of play that mirrors traditional point guards from his era but stands out in today's game.

[04:19] Paul Pierce:
“I don’t see that about Halliburton, it being about him. He just wants to win.”

Pierce commends Halliburton’s team-first mentality, contrasting it with other players who may prioritize personal achievements over team success.

SGA's Performance and Whistle Dependence

Colin shifts the focus to Scottie Gordon Allen (SGA), discussing his playoff performance and perceived reliance on referees. He questions whether SGA’s game is too dependent on getting to the free-throw line, likening him to players like James Harden who also leaned heavily on drawing fouls.

[05:16] Colin Cowherd:
“I think SGA is a little whistle dependent. Is that fair?”

Paul responds by acknowledging both sides but attributes SGA’s performance issues to physical wear and defensive strategies employed against him.

[06:05] Paul Pierce:
“They’re picking him up full. They’re playing the long game. By the time the fourth quarter comes, he’s so worn down.”

He explains that defensive tactics are draining SGA, forcing him to exert more effort defensively, which in turn affects his offensive output in critical game moments.

New York Knicks Coaching Changes

Colin introduces the topic of the New York Knicks' recent coaching change, referencing Rachel Nichols' interview and questioning the team's lack of a contingency plan.

[07:16] Colin Cowherd:
“What was your kind of take on the firing at Tibbs?”

Paul expresses his skepticism about the abrupt firing of coach Tibbs, arguing that Tibbs had maximized the team's potential given their roster constraints. He believes the real issue lies in the team's lack of depth and front-heavy roster rather than the coaching itself.

[08:53] Paul Pierce:
“If they didn’t make a trade and stood pat, we were probably talking about the Knicks in the Finals.”

He suggests that better roster management, including retaining key players like Dante DiVincenzo, could have positioned the Knicks for greater success, indicating that coaching alone cannot overcome structural team deficiencies.

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NBA Draft Analysis: Cooper vs. Jason Tatum

The conversation transitions to an analysis of the current NBA draft, focusing on comparing a top draft pick, Cooper, to established star Jason Tatum.

[14:12] Paul Pierce:
“Are you telling me that Cooper’s offensive package is equivalent to Jason Tatum, a guy who’s averaged 30 in the league?”

Pierce critically evaluates the comparison, asserting that Cooper, while talented and aggressive, has yet to demonstrate the superstar caliber of Tatum. He delves into Cooper’s playmaking abilities, defensive impact, and overall potential, highlighting areas where he needs to evolve to match Tatum’s multi-faceted game.

[16:11] Paul Pierce:
“He’s a more aggressive player in attacking the basket, but I don’t think he’s a good shooter as Tatum either.”

Pierce acknowledges Cooper’s aggressive driving but points out shortcomings in his shooting accuracy compared to Tatum, suggesting a balanced evaluation of their respective skills and potential trajectories.

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Boston Celtics' Strategic Moves and Future

Colin probes into the Boston Celtics' possible strategic moves, particularly regarding their pursuit of Giannis Antetokounmpo and the team's overall direction.

[16:57] Colin Cowherd:
“Do you think the Celtics go for Giannis? Make a big move, move Jaylen Brown?”

Paul responds cautiously, emphasizing the importance of assessing the team’s direction and remaining patient rather than making hasty decisions based solely on injuries or short-term performance dips.

[17:07] Paul Pierce:
“I wouldn’t be too fast to make decisions. I’d see where the team is and what direction we’re going in.”

He advises a measured approach, suggesting that the Celtics should evaluate their season's progression before committing to significant roster changes, ensuring that any moves are beneficial both in the present and future.

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Indiana Pacers vs. Oklahoma City Thunder Playoff Clutch Performance

The discussion shifts to the playoff performances of the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder, particularly focusing on clutch scenarios.

[17:57] Colin Cowherd:
“Indiana is the most clutched team in the playoffs, 9 and 1 in clutch time.”

Paul supports this assertion, explaining that Indiana's unpredictable star performances make them difficult to prepare for, giving them an edge in close games. He contrasts this with Oklahoma City’s front-running mentality, which may falter in high-pressure, one-possession situations.

[18:50] Paul Pierce:
“Coaches are trying to prepare for specific stars, but Indiana’s unpredictability makes it tough.”

He highlights Indiana’s depth and versatility, noting that their ability to adapt and rely on multiple players in critical moments makes them formidable opponents in clutch situations.

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Player Focus: Cooper’s Potential and Comparisons

Colin further examines Cooper’s potential impact in the league, questioning Paul’s comparisons and exploring Cooper’s playing style versus established stars like Jason Tatum.

[15:52] Colin Cowherd:
“Do you see Cooper as an impact player in the league?”

Paul reiterates his belief in Cooper's potential, emphasizing his versatility, defensive prowess, and high work ethic. He underscores the importance of Cooper's "motor" on the court, a trait he values highly and considers critical for sustained success.

[16:57] Paul Pierce:
“He does too many things to not be an impact offensively and defensively.”

Pierce acknowledges Cooper’s comprehensive skill set, indicating that his multifaceted game positions him as a valuable asset capable of influencing both ends of the floor.

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NFL Discussions: Denver Broncos and Quarterback Analysis

The episode briefly touches on NFL topics, including the Denver Broncos’ acquisition of running back J.K. Dobbins and the quarterback situation with Kirk Cousins.

[24:04] Paul Pierce:
“The defense is really good, the quarterback’s amazing, the O-line is amazing. So it was a no-brainer.”

Paul comments positively on the Broncos' strategy in strengthening their roster, particularly lauding their defensive and offensive line improvements alongside acquiring J.K. Dobbins, predicting a promising season.

[26:11] Paul Pierce:
“Kevin Stefanski is trying to push it down.”

Addressing Kirk Cousins' role, Paul discusses the quarterback’s performance metrics and the organizational challenges in Cleveland, hinting at a potential shift in team dynamics and leadership.

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Christian Pulisic and US Men's National Soccer Team

In the concluding segment, Colin discusses Christian Pulisic’s decision to sit out the Gold Cup to rest, reflecting on its implications for the US Men's National Team.

[34:21] Colin Cowherd:
“Christian Pulisic decided not to play in the Gold Cup because he wants to get rest. I defend him on that.”

Paul defends Pulisic’s decision, acknowledging the importance of long-term health and readiness for the World Cup over short-term competition. He emphasizes Pulisic’s value both on the field and financially, citing his achievements in Serie A.

[34:21] Paul Pierce:
“I do want to be a part of the team always. I want to be ready for the World Cup.”

He underscores the necessity for key players like Pulisic to prioritize major tournaments, balancing national duty with personal well-being and professional commitments.

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Closing Remarks

Colin wraps up the episode by summarizing key takeaways from the discussions with Paul Pierce, highlighting the importance of player versatility, team dynamics, and strategic decision-making in both NBA and NFL contexts. The episode provides listeners with a comprehensive analysis of current sports trends, enriched by Pierce’s expert insights and firsthand experiences.

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Notable Quotes

1. Colin Cowherd on Tyrese Halliburton:

   • “I think that's hard for point guards. Steph Curry's like that, but Steph always gets his minutes.” ([03:13])

2. Paul Pierce on Halliburton’s Team-First Attitude:

   • “He just wants to win.” ([04:19])

3. Colin Cowherd on SGA’s Dependence:

   • “I think SGA is a little whistle dependent. Is that fair?” ([05:16])

4. Paul Pierce on Knicks’ Coaching Change:

   • “They were deficient, they didn't have a bench.” ([08:02])

5. Colin Cowherd on NBA Draft Comparison:

   • “Jason Tatum’s a guy who’s averaged 30 in the league.” ([14:12])

6. Paul Pierce on Cooper’s Potential:

   • “He does too many things to not be an impact offensively and defensively.” ([16:57])

7. Colin Cowherd on Indiana Pacers’ Clutch Performance:

   • “Indiana lives in these kinds of games every night and I feel like it's a little bit of a negative with OKC.” ([17:57])

8. Paul Pierce on Christian Pulisic’s Decision:

   • “I want to be ready for the World Cup.” ([34:21])

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Conclusion

This episode of The Herd offers a rich exploration of basketball and football strategies, player evaluations, and team management through the seasoned perspective of Paul Pierce. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of the factors influencing team performances and player decisions, making it a valuable listen for sports enthusiasts seeking expert analysis.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

Now, let's get this party started.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. One of the things I really like about Tyrese Halliburton is how comfortable he is with TJ McConnell taking over the game or any other young player getting his. And I, I think that's hard. Like, like point guards. Steph Curry's like that, but Steph always gets his. So I just. There's an iq, EQ self awareness with Halliburton. I mean, last night, like he was T.J. mcConnell's biggest fan. Paul Pierce, 19 years the hall of Famer, is now joining us. Not every, not every teammate, Paul, is like that. Not every teammate's happy when you get yours in Boston, you guys were stars. You're a star. Rondo wanted the ball. You had Ray Allen, you had kg. Halliburton generally appears joyful on winning more than everything in your career. Is that common?

[Paul Pierce]

Wow, that's. That's a great question. It depends on type of leader you got in the locker room and depends on what, what's, what's driving them? And it depends on, like, what's the goal? What are we trying to accomplish? You know, people talk about winning, but are they willing to do the necessary things to help them win or is it just more about them? And I don't see that about Halliburton, it being about him. He just wants to win. And the thing, and I said this yesterday on the speak, I said, like, his play is uncommon in today. His play is unorthodox, which is, which is strange because when you look at the common point guards of today, he's a traditional point guard in my era. Today he's unorthodox.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Paul Pierce]

You know what I'm saying? Like, he's a passport first point guard. And that's why people don't look at him like a superstar. And that's why. But his effect on the game is the same as a superstar. And that's what I've been trying to tell people.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Was. You know, it's funny, I. It is the playoffs, especially these playoffs, you don't get the whistle. I mean, they're going to let you play. I thought a big part of this last night was sga didn't get to the free Throw line. This team is 4 and 4 in the playoffs. When he doesn't get 8 or more free throws. Some of this is. And James Harden was totally reliant on the whistle. You weren't. Kobe wasn't. But that's not a knock on sga. But the record is clear. Yeah, because Homegren's game is still a little uneven. You're never quite sure what you get. Last night, Lou Dort hit threes. I. I think SGA is a little whistle dependent. Is that fair?

[Paul Pierce]

You know, it's 50, 50 with him. Cause some nights he gets the whistle. I mean, he's still good for 25 to 30, you know, I mean, think about it. He had 24 last night, didn't get the whistle. I mean, he can still put the ball in the bucket, but I think he's just getting worn down. Colin. He's getting worn down. Did you see at the end of the game, they're picking him up full. They're playing the long game. They're like, all right, he may get us in the beginning, but we gonna pick up full court. By the time that fourth quarter come, he's gonna be so worn down because he has to do it on both ends of the court. He has to defend. Cause Indiana's making them defend too.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right. That's right.

[Paul Pierce]

You know, they throwing picks on them, they fouling them pretty hard and they're picking up. That wears on you. I've been on other games, like just getting picked up full court or somebody just on your body at all times, that wears you down throughout the course of the game. And in the fourth quarter, when you gotta do so much for your team, it's draining. It's draining. When you, when you got those guys who don't hit the shots, now you got to get back on defense. It's draining. When they score and then you take the ball out. I get it. And I'm the point guard and they picking me up baseline to baseline. And that's what I'm seeing right there. They're getting tired. It's clear.

[Colin Cowherd]

I want to shift to the New York Knicks. Rachel Nickel was on an hour ago. Rachel Nichols. I. My take is if you're going to fire anybody in any position, you got to have a plan. You got to have somebody in the. Waiting in the car, waiting in the sedan outside, ready to come in. It doesn't sound like the Knicks had a plan. What was your kind of take on the firing at Tibbs?

[Paul Pierce]

I thought it was kind of unjust based on, you know, what Tibbs was able to accomplish this year, you know, he got him to the conference finals and I think he maxed out the team because everybody saw the Knicks for what they were throughout the regular season and everybody was like, okay, yeah, they're a second round exit team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right, Right.

[Paul Pierce]

They made it to the conference finals, won a lot of games in the regular season. But I think their roster, based on the other rosters I'm looking at in Eastern Conference, I think he maxed them out. They were deficient, they didn't have a bench. And even if Tibbs didn't play them, when he did play them, I mean, how productive were they? Because when you look at the likes of Indiana, when you look at Bost and teams of that nature in the Eastern Conference, these guys had depth and that's something that the Knicks were front heavy. So I think he maxed out the roster. So I don't think a coach coming in the roster is what the roster is. The coach is not the coach. You're going to have to get more pieces for this team to get over the hump. I don't care who you bring in. You can bring in red or back, you can bring in Phil Jackson. This team maxed out.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, Paul, it's interesting. We forget they had HARTENSTEIN and Dante DiVincenzo last year. And Dante is a great three point shooter. How many times in the next series did we go, God, they need one more guy to hit a three. They had him, he's off to Minnesota. So they lost really valuable pieces and it showed up against Indiana, man, I'm.

[Paul Pierce]

Telling you, I tell people this, if they didn't make no trade and stood pat. They were injured last year. Yeah, all they had to do was stand pat. If they stand pat, we're not. We're probably talking about the Knicks in the Finals because you would have had depth, you would have had more experience from a year ago. Randle would have gave you pretty much what Cat gave you on both ends of the court. But you would have had the depth, you would have had guys off the bench that you can depend on. So you know, it is what it is moving forward. I don't know where the Knicks go from here as far as coaching, but they're right there. Take nothing away from. They're right there. They're a piece away. No matter what coach you bring in, they're a piece of way.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

Colin, if you don't get out of here with that talk about Jason Tatum. So you telling me that Cooper flags offensive package is equivalent to Jason Tatum, A guy who's averaged 30 in the league? 28, 27. You think Cooper can do. I love Cooper and I love what he's done, you know, throughout his career. He's a young guy too. I look at him more of like a Andre Karolenko, you know, he can play both ends, maybe a little more offense than Karolenko. But you gotta understand Karolenko was an all star in this team, in this, in this league. Do I see him as a superstar? I don't know yet. Kind of. I'm not quite sure yet, you know, how is he in the pick and roll? How is he initiating offense? How is he. You know, I look at other things when I look at primary scorers and guys who lead their team. How is this playmaking, you know, off the dribble when he's getting trapped, when he's in different situations now, he's still young and he'll learn these things. But I saw those things from Jason Tatum at Duke. Already playing a pick and roll, playing on the ball, initiating offense, off the ball, on the ball. So will he be an impact player in the league? I believe so, because he does too many things to not be an impact. Offensively, he can knock down shots. Defensively, he's a terror. His engine is a talent. And that's something that people don't talk about. Having that type of motor is a talent in this league. Because when I think about motor, there's only a certain few guys that have a motor that's head and shoulders above everybody. When you talk about antetokounmpo and guys like Westbrook, you know, just that extra oomph. And he has that.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, Cooper averaged 19 a game at Duke as a freshman. Tatum average 17. So they were very similar. I do think even Tatum's dad has mentioned this. I think Cooper's a more aggressive player and that's just. That's almost DNA stuff. I can't explain it. They're just guys that want the shot.

[Paul Pierce]

I agree with that. He's a more aggressive player as far as attacking the basket, because I don't think he's a good shooter as Tatum either, though. That's fair, you know, so you take one, give one. Like I was more like Tatums probably was. Well, I wouldn't say a better shooter, but I like to attack the basket. But I mean, you know, it just like you said, it's in the DNA. And it's also what the coaches are allowed, allowing these guys. You know, when I look at the Celtics, I mean, they're a three point heavy shooting team. And I was thinking about it this morning when I watched the finals, Colin, I saw that both teams combined to shoot. I believe it was like 27 threes and 20 like 449 threes combined. And I've seen on multiple occasions, you know, The Celtics shoot 50 plus threes and it's just like, wow.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, do you think the Celtics go for Giannis? Make a big move, move Jaylen Brown, like, what is your feeling on what Boston does? You have a. You have a sense of that culture.

[Paul Pierce]

I'm not sure it'd be necessary to go for a Giannis as long as Jayson Tatum is out. And I don't know the timetable on when he come back. And even if he does come back, he won't be the Jason Tatum that we saw leaving the playoffs. You know, it's going to take some time to get back to that. You know, if it were me, I kind of like let the year play out and make decisions. I wouldn't be too fast to make decisions. I'll see where the team is and what direction we're going in and if there's something I can do at the trade deadline that's going to benefit, benefit them in the long run or even in the now, I'll make that move. But like I wouldn't just be like, well Jason's hurt, let's throw away the year. I'm going to sit back and see and be patient because most of the times when you make these hasty decisions and decisions that are too quick, you most likely make the wrong decision on the team. So I hope they just sit back and be patient and see what they.

[Colin Cowherd]

Need so you have the most all time game winning buzzer beaters made or assistant on regular and post season. Indiana is the most clutched team in the playoffs, 9 and 1 in clutch time. Oklahoma City, because they won by an average of 13 points in the regular season, is a really young team. It hasn't been in a lot of close games. I thought down the stretch the last six minutes last night I thought Oklahoma City shot creation was bad. I didn't think they got good looks. I thought Indiana just got better looks. And I thought to myself, Indiana lives in these kind of games. They're in these games every night and I, I feel like it's a little bit of a negative with okc, Paul. It's like a football team that blows. I always feel about the Baltimore Ravens with Lamar. They blow so many people out in the regular season. They're not used to a one possession game. And I think OKC looked a little off late last night.

[Paul Pierce]

Well, yeah, those teams are front runners, Collins. And there's nothing wrong with that because I've seen front running teams win. It's just that they're not used to being in that situation when you're blowing teams out at a historic rate. Now when the game is close and tightness starting to set in, they panic. And that's what, that's what we call front runners. I mean look at the numbers. If you just look at the numbers in the fourth quarter alone in this series, it's, it's drastic how Indiana is outplaying in the fourth quarter when the game is tight. Indiana got better and it just look at, did you see last night they miss free throws. They don't normally miss. I saw Jalen miss, what, three. Was it three or four straight free throws? And then it was like, whoa. It was obvious. If it wasn't obvious before, it was obvious last night, just at the free throw line alone, that you were like, whoa. It got tight in there. And to their credit, they're a young team. And I said, this. This is why I picked the Indiana Pacers. People don't understand, like, when I watch them top to bottom, coaching their stars, and you ask me, like, who are their stars? That's right. We don't know, because it's a different star every single night. And that's what makes them tough to play. Like, what am I doing if I'm OKC and I'm in the locker room saying, oh, we have to prepare for Neesmith and Nemhardt. Oh, but they didn't show up yesterday. Oh, but now Matheran goes for 20. It's so unpredictable. And that's why I picked them, those teams, for me, Colin, when we, you know, it's the toughest games for me to play in. Say, like, we played a team and the star was out. So now you're like, oh, it's easy to prepare for what. I know. I know what he is. It's easy to prepare for that. But when now the unpredictability sets in, it's like, anybody can go off. And that's who Indiana is. It's so unpredictable. It's tough to prepare for them.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, if. If Siakam had 29 points next game, it would. You wouldn't be surprised by that at all. No, you wouldn't. And if he had seven, you wouldn't be surprised. I mean, look, TJ McConnell took over the game in the second quarter.

[Paul Pierce]

It's crazy, right? They have so many unsung heroes. I'll tell you this story. We were at the end of the year in 2010, and we were positioning ourselves for the playoffs, and we were like, all right, should we win these games or lose these games? Should we rest and get ready? It was. Our seating was on the line, and we got into the meeting, me, Rondo, Ray, and kg, he said, who would y' all rather play in the second round? I think it was, like, Orlando and Cleveland. Cause Orlando was, like a two seed and Cleveland was a one seed. We were like, let's play the number one seed in the second round with LeBron. It's easier us. It's easier for us to prepare for him because we know it's all about him now that Orlando Team was a little more unpredictable. Yeah, they got Dwight, but they got Turgulu, Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson. They got all these other guys. That's like a little. I don't know who's going to be the next star on any given night.

[Eric Mangini]

LeBron.

[Paul Pierce]

LeBron in Cleveland was easier to prepare for, even though they were the number one seed and won 66 games.

[Colin Cowherd]

Paul Pierce, the Hall of Famer, he's on Speak after us. Good seeing you, as always, my man.

[Paul Pierce]

Always.

[Colin Cowherd]

You bet. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no.

[Paul Pierce]

Turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herdline news.

[Eric Mangini]

I know you love Shador Sanders, but we're going to start with the best quarterback in the draft class, Cam Ward. He's crushing it in Tennessee. And earlier this month, Calvin Ridley said Ward had the effort mentality you need as a quarterback. Well, this week, defensive tackle Jeffrey Simmons talked about Ward's ability to trash talk while staying composed. And Brian Callahan elaborated further.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll be honest, I wasn't used to. I'm not used to calling plays to a quarterback, as usual. He's still talking when I'm talking to him, and that's great. And so I asked him after practice, and I said, I just. Just help me out here. Do you need me to wait till you finish, or. And he goes, no. He goes, I'm listening, but I'm calling a play. It's all he's doing. All he's doing, but he's listening to everything I'm telling him, and. And he enters right into the huddle, and he calls a play and doesn't scrub the play call. And I thought that was actually kind of remarkable. I. I don't know. I couldn't do that. How about that? I think you and I both. You and I both agree. Tennessee's gonna be. Cam Ward's gonna be a handful. They're gonna be good. Yeah.

[Eric Mangini]

I feel like I'm similar to Cam Ward in that I'm listening to you talk all the time, but at the same time, I'm researching how I'm gonna combat your points and toss them under the water. Like, I heard Paul Pierce say something, and I'm like, there's just no way. And I hear him explaining it. I'm like, yeah, he's way off on Tatum. And I. I'm. I. I think Cam Ward is similar, and he can do multiple things. Listen to the coach, trash talk, identify the defense. Takes a special talent to do all of that. Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, sure does.

[Eric Mangini]

Doesn't quite have that. Sorry. He just doesn't have it yet. Maybe he'll get in a couple years. Next up, the Denver Broncos. They have a great defense and just added a piece of their offense. J.K. dobbins on a one year deal. Really nice season with the Chargers. Last year, 905 yards. Here he is about joining their rivals in Denver.

[Paul Pierce]

The defense is really good, like super good. Quarterback's amazing. I like the RV room. O line is amazing as well. So it was a no brainer. Coach Sean Payton and all the other coaches on staff too. So I know I'll get coach well here. I want to get a ring because I've been in the playoffs every year I've played. So I'm tired of losing in them. So that's my goal is to bring a Super bowl to the city.

[Colin Cowherd]

I thought it was actually a good pickup. I really did. I really like Denver's roster. I think. I think the defense is going to be top six or seven in the league. I think he's a nice pickup.

[Eric Mangini]

How do you get your RB one in June? Because this is the depth chart before Adam Dobbins. RJ Harvey, a rookie out of.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, no, no, no, no. People like him a lot.

[Eric Mangini]

Yeah, I get it. Okay, great. They like him a lot. Is a rookie out of ucf. Then there's Audric estimate who was decent last year and then Jahliel McLaughlin. Yeah, like J.K. dobbins is better than those guys. Maybe they'll be better eventually. Seasoned veteran.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I like him. He's a good player. He gets banged up, but he's a good player. Yeah, I don't think you have to have a dominant Saquon Barkley. It would help, but I don't think there are that many in the league and so I think they'll do kind of running back. You carry it eight times, you carry it six. By the way, Bo Nix, they can also move the pocket with him. So do they need a dominant run game? Bo Nix at this point in his career, sometimes out of necessity, is really mobile.

[Eric Mangini]

This just hit me. Is the Broncos running back room with four guys equivalent to the Browns quarterback room with four guys and nobody special?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, quarterback's just more essential. So it's apples and oranges.

[Eric Mangini]

But if you've got four quarterbacks, you don't have one. If you have four running backs, you don't have one.

[Colin Cowherd]

But I'm not sure you need one. I think you can do if you have. I mean, I would argue that just for duration of career. I don't necessarily want It, I mean, like Christian McCaffrey, I don't want him getting more than 12 carries, two catches, 12 care. I don't want McCaffrey carrying it 24 times. By the way, my favorite backfield is Detroit. They've got the lightning guy, the Thunder guy. I'd like multiple backs. I don't want multiple quarterbacks.

[Eric Mangini]

The only counter is the Eagles, were really good, got to the super bowl, blah, blah, blah. Add Saquon Barkley.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, he's the best guy in the league. He's. He's a superstar, so that he's an exception. There's just. He and McAffrey, when healthy, are just different than everybody else in the league.

[Eric Mangini]

Well, what about Cook in Buffalo? Is he there?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, no. He's James Cook. No, no.

[Eric Mangini]

Damn. All right, we got one more story, Colin, and that is Kirk Cousins. You know, this shouldn't really be a story, but it's interesting. Kirk Cousins almost seems resigned to being a backup at this point in his career. Here he is talking to reporters on Tuesday.

[Colin Cowherd]

Obviously, you'd love to play, but I'm not going to dwell on things that aren't reality in terms of, you know.

[Eric Mangini]

That'S, I'm, I'm, that's not the situation I'm in.

[Colin Cowherd]

So it's better spent to be focused.

[Eric Mangini]

On the situation I'm in and controlling what you can control. And, and, and I think that's, that's.

[Colin Cowherd]

The right mindset to have. All right.

[Eric Mangini]

It almost seems like he's one of these aging CEOs, and they're looking to push him out and bring in a young whippersnapper CEO who sees things differently because there's at least three or four teams right now where he would be the starter. But it's like, what's the point? What are we doing, you know, like the New Orleans Saints. Kirk Cousins would be the best quarterback in that room. There's no denying that. Sorry, guys. And it's like, well, why don't they have Kirk Cousins? Well, let's try the young guys. We don't want to pay Kirk, you know.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, I think they want to see if Spencer Rattler and the other kid from Louisville can play.

[Eric Mangini]

News flash, they can't. You know, I, I, you might disagree at this stage. I don't know that Rogers is better than Kirk Cousins, but Arthur Smith certainly is not. There's no chance he's working. I mean, the Browns, I don't know that any of those guys are better right now than Kirk cousins. This two, two years ago. The guy threw for like 4, 000 yards.

[Colin Cowherd]

9 I yeah, he lost his fastball at the end of last year. Some of that could have been rushing back from inj.

[Paul Pierce]

Injury.

[Eric Mangini]

From injury.

[Colin Cowherd]

J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. So yesterday we spent some considerable time with Alexi Lawless. It was one of the leads of my show about the United States men's national team is lost four straight friendlies. The Gold cup starts this weekend. The World Cup's a year away on US Soil and the team has no there there. What are they? I think a big part of it is their star, without question, is Christian Pulisic. And he has decided not to play in the Gold coast, the Gold cup because he wants to get rest. He's. He's fatigued from playing in a very rigorous AC Milan schedule, which I defend him on that. He talks about the pushback he's getting. Landon Donovan very critical of him. We'll talk about that. You'll hear from Pulisic next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd Weekdays noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day, 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips, blaming me. Well, you know what? It's, it's called Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years. Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised. Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promise. And also uncensored, by the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Over Promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us. Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

[J. Mack]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Eric Mangini]

The road to 2026 kicks off now with the Concacaf Gold Cup. Team USA takes on the best in North America, ready to prove they belong on the world's biggest stage. The journey starts with a matchup against Trinidad and Tobago, Sunday at 5:30 Eastern only on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now, Christian Pulisic, after a couple years of rigorous and playing well, rigorous scheduling, double digit goals in AC Milan, has decided, hey, I'm going to take this off. I am fatigued. I defend that. But Alexi Lawless on our show yesterday, not a big fan. I cannot fathom or understand or relate to if and when you are called to represent your country, a country that I feel is the greatest country in the world. You saying no? I'm willing to give Christian Pulisic some grace. If he needs rest, that's fine. I will remind Christian and anybody else out there, last time I was 100%, I was 10 years old. I think the bigger problem is for Christian Pulisic not to be here this summer is that you got to read the room, dude. I think that's a fair criticism. Pulisic, however, I think well responded criticism. It sucks for me to miss out with the team. I want to be. I want to be a part of the team always. I started to think what's, you know, what is best and what is going to be best for me leading into next year and going into the World cup and was that to play eight more games and then get no, no rest at all, go straight into preseason and then grind another year and go straight into the World Cup. That's, that's not what I felt was best for my body. But the only, the only point that I would make with that is that I did want to be a part of the, at least the two friendlies. I, I did speak with the coaches and I asked and I wanted to be a part of the team and whatever capacity I could and they said no. They said they only wanted one roster and that's coach's decision. I, I fully respect that and I have to make the best decision for, for myself and also, you know, in the long run for my team. So my take is Pulisic is at another level than even Weston McKinney. And so the number one thing is the World cup in being ready for it, which he just alluded to. And the number two thing is making that money in Europe. That's, that's the most important stuff. The Gold cup is not. And I, and my take is if you are the best in the world or at least the best in America at something, the rules change. So, and there are a couple guys. Tyler Adams, a good player, he's banged up. So I think with Pulisic, he is a really good player for AC Milan. Double digit goals and it's, it is intense. So he's had the second most goals and assists in the Serie A over the last two years and that's one of the top leagues in Europe. So he's a star over there and that's where you make your money. You're not making it in the mls, you're making it over there. And so his take is I'm just going to be ready for the World Cup. And I also. That's where the money is. And he goes, well, I mean it's not loyal to. You're as loyal as your options. His options are great. I defend him. Now again, I'm. These are just, it's just data. There are no opinions here. But there was another Cleveland Browns minicamp practice today. So here are the numbers with the four quarterbacks for the Browns. Once again, Shador was the most accurate. Once again. So now. So Flacco was two is seven. Everybody was pretty accurate. But, but you know, Shador, seven and nine. So Shadour Sanders, now all in, has completed 77 and a half percent of his throws. Flacco 51%, Kenny Pickett 60% about his career average and Dylan Gabriel 57, 58%. Oh. So no, no, no. In fairness, Eric Mangini pushed back on what he views as a little hyperbolic attitude by me.

[Paul Pierce]

There is a desperation coming off of desean Watson for, for some quarterback to emerge, for some hope to be there for the franchise.

[Colin Cowherd]

And they thought Shador could, could potentially be a, you know, a high pick form and then they get him in the fifth round.

[Paul Pierce]

So it's just, it exploded in Cleveland.

[Colin Cowherd]

The second that he got here and.

[Paul Pierce]

What Kevin Stefanski is trying to do.

[Colin Cowherd]

Is he's trying to tamper it down.

[Paul Pierce]

He'S trying to push it down. And you see all of his reps.

[Colin Cowherd]

Have been with the back end guys. He hasn't gotten any reps with the ones.

[Paul Pierce]

To me that's a good decision because as soon as he gets in with the ones, then the hype train is.

[Colin Cowherd]

Going to roll even further. Listen, this show is not a big opinion show. It's just about stats and data and the stats are rather convincing. America's honesty broker. I'm not America's opinion broker. It's just data. All I do is get stats and documents all day and feed them to the audience. Sharing data again from Ohio.

[Eric Mangini]

So I can't believe I'm going to say this isn't being the most accurate quarterback in Browns camp right now. Like, like being the tallest guy in Dylan Gabriel's family. Like it just doesn't matter that much when you compare it at large. Like who cares that he's 77 in camp with the backups like Colin? I, I, I, yes, I do understand this has become shtick. It's funny.

[Colin Cowherd]

Haha.

[Eric Mangini]

I, I enjoy it but then they put the camera on me and they want me to push back because they like the sparring. And at some point I'll just say this.

[Colin Cowherd]

If Jimmy Haslam is the one that said draft him and there is overwhelming sentiment among NFL reporters, that's what happened. We have the video of Kevin Stefanski and Andrew barely Andrew Barry. Like yeah, okay, if that's true, that the owner who wanted Johnny Manziel and Baker Mayfield and the Sean Watson, if all the other quarterbacks are completing 58% shedeurs at 77% you, you really think you're going to usurp the owner's opinion? You think you're not going to pay attention, you're going to get to a point where the numbers and not to mention talk radio in Cleveland, which by the way Jimmy Haslam can be affected by that. We've seen that. Yeah. Remember Jimmy here He acknowledged that he drafted Johnny Manziel because a guy in the street.

[Eric Mangini]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Told him to draft Johnny Manziel.

[Eric Mangini]

Isn't there equivalent where, like, maybe somebody here got sick of my jets and Lebron and all this stuff and they were like, we're getting out of McIntyre. We're getting somebody for Cowherd. And you just didn't like that person that you are, Kevin Stefanski. And the new person would be Shador Sanders. They want to bring in somebody else. But you, who run the show.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't.

[Eric Mangini]

You're not feeling this. Kevin Stefanski wanted Dylan Gabriel. That's it. No, we understand that. Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

He didn't love Dylan Gabriel. He drafted him to get out of the Shador business.

[Eric Mangini]

Where did you get that from?

[Colin Cowherd]

My guy, John Middelkoff said, why would you draft him there? You already had Pickett and Flacco. Why would you reach on Dylan Gabriel? Because you didn't want to get into the Shador stuff.

[Eric Mangini]

I thought Albert Breer told us. Hey, Stefanski's in love with the quick release, the processing, the accuracy. Those are things he loves and he loved them about Gabriel.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, yeah. But it's funny in camp should do is all of those things.

[Eric Mangini]

Yeah. Against backups.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, again, he's throwing the backups.

[Eric Mangini]

Let's see what he does against the ones in August.

[Colin Cowherd]

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