Hour 3 - Paul Pierce

Summary

Summary of “The Herd with Colin Cowherd” - Episode: Hour 3 - Paul Pierce (Released March 3, 2025)

The Herd with Colin Cowherd continues its tradition of delivering insightful and opinionated discussions on the top sports stories of the day. In this episode, released on March 3, 2025, Colin Cowherd is joined by NBA legend Paul Pierce to delve into contemporary basketball narratives, player performances, league dynamics, and even touches on NFL topics. The conversation seamlessly weaves through various subjects, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the current sports landscape.

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1. The Clutch Factor: Jayson Tatum Under Scrutiny

Discussion Highlights: Colin initiates the conversation by addressing the performance of Boston Celtics’ star Jayson Tatum, questioning whether Tatum truly embodies the clutch player label or if he’s been hampered by his team dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd [03:11]: “You were known as a clutch player. Is it fair for me to say I can love Jason, but there are times I think people have taken the ball out of his hands on his own team?”
• Paul Pierce [03:27]: “Jason, this is one of the more clutch players. If we just talk about time and moment, but like big games when you need it.”

Insights: Paul Pierce defends Tatum’s clutch credentials by referencing pivotal playoff moments where Tatum delivered under pressure, such as a critical performance against Milwaukee and a game-winning shot in Philadelphia. Pierce emphasizes that while Tatum has his moments, the perception of his clutch ability is often influenced by team strategies and external factors rather than his personal performance.

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2. Evolution of the NBA: From Physicality to Finesse

Discussion Highlights: The conversation shifts to how the NBA has transformed over the years, particularly focusing on the decline of physicality and increased emphasis on finesse and health.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd [05:19]: “That's interesting because I always look at him as a guy, and I think it's harder for players.”
• Paul Pierce [06:12]: “It really is a different world. As you say, that when you got guys who are coming off the bench that can make 100 million…”

Insights: Both hosts reflect on the shift from the tough, physical style of play exemplified by legends like Michael Jordan and earlier Celtics rosters to the modern NBA’s focus on player health, longevity, and skill. Pierce notes that the financial aspects and higher contracts today contribute to a different competitive spirit, where players are less inclined to engage in physical confrontations, thereby altering the league’s dynamic.

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3. The Quest for the League’s Face: Challenges of Modern Star Building

Discussion Highlights: A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing what it takes to be the "face of the NBA" in today’s globalized and media-saturated environment, with a particular focus on Jason Tatum’s place in this hierarchy.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd [09:10]: “I don’t think the league needs it, but I think it's harder to be a face of the league today.”
• Paul Pierce [09:27]: “Maybe the thing about the face of the league, Colin and Jason, is just like it has to be accepted amongst people.”

Insights: Paul Pierce articulates that becoming the face of the league requires not only exceptional performance but also widespread acceptance and marketability. He contrasts past superstars like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan, whose personal stories and charisma naturally propelled them to iconic status, with modern players who may lack the same media presence or narrative appeal. Pierce highlights the role of social media and personal branding in shaping a player’s prominence, suggesting that Tatum’s more reserved personality and lower media engagement limit his ascent to the league’s top tier of stars.

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4. Franchise Tagging in the NFL: The Case of T. Higgins

Discussion Highlights: Transitioning from basketball, the conversation touches upon NFL strategies, specifically the Cincinnati Bengals’ decision to franchise tag wide receiver T. Higgins for a second consecutive year.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd [26:17]: “The franchise tag is legal. Players may not like it, but he's going to get paid more on a franchise single year than he would on an average if he had a longer contract.”
• Jason McIntyre [27:13]: “He's got to be the highest.”

Insights: The hosts discuss the implications of franchise tagging, noting that while it provides substantial one-year compensation, it reflects the team's strategic positioning regarding player contracts and long-term planning. Colin explains that the tag ensures Higgins remains among the top compensated players at his position, giving the Bengals flexibility to negotiate a long-term deal while maintaining financial structure. This decision also indicates the Bengals' broader strategy of balancing offensive investments with defensive needs.

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5. Defensive Strategies and Team Building in the NFL

Discussion Highlights: Further exploring NFL team dynamics, the conversation delves into how teams like the Cleveland Browns and Detroit Lions approach roster building, particularly emphasizing defensive acquisitions.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd [28:26]: “Detroit's A prime example. They got their offense O line, tight end, receiver, quarterback back. They're fine. They have to go and hit on four or five defensive picks.”
• Jason McIntyre [29:47]: “Look at the Eagles. They locked up their quarterback, two receivers added Saquon Barkley and they have a ton of young studs on defense.”

Insights: The discussion highlights the importance of defensive strength in maintaining a competitive edge. Colin and Jason analyze how teams prioritize defensive drafts and signings to complement their offensive cores, ensuring balanced team development. They cite examples of successful strategies by the Eagles and potential moves by the Browns to bolster their defensive lineup, underscoring the critical role defense plays in a team’s overall success.

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6. Player Contracts and Team Dynamics: The Case of Devontae Adams

Discussion Highlights: The episode also addresses the complexities of managing high-value player contracts, specifically focusing on Devontae Adams’ situation with the New York Jets and the challenges of trading a top receiver.

Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre [30:32]: “He's set to earn 35 million in each of the next two seasons which makes it difficult to trade him.”
• Colin Cowherd [31:34]: “I like Demonte Adams. It didn't change the Jets ascension.”

Insights: The hosts discuss how significant salary commitments can hinder a team's flexibility in trading valuable players. Devontae Adams’ high contract makes it challenging for the Jets to move him without substantial financial implications. Colin suggests that while teams might have strategic reasons for such contracts, it often limits their ability to adapt quickly to changing team needs or capitalize on opportunities to enhance other positions.

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7. Celebrating Legacy: Jimmy Johnson’s Retirement Announcement

Discussion Highlights: A heartfelt segment features the retirement of NFL legend Jimmy Johnson from Fox Sports, with Paul Pierce reflecting on Johnson’s illustrious career and contributions to the sport.

Notable Quotes:

• Paul Pierce [24:15]: “Jimmy logged an incredible ride. He believed in himself, he believed in the process.”
• Colin Cowherd [25:43]: “Jimmy coached us. He was your coach, NFL, college football and sort of our coach at Fox Sports as well.”

Insights: Paul and Colin pay tribute to Jimmy Johnson, highlighting his successful tenure as both a coach and broadcaster. They recount Johnson’s significant achievements, including his transformative impact on the Dallas Cowboys and his resilient spirit in overcoming early criticisms. The segment underscores Johnson’s legacy as a relentless competitor and a pivotal figure in both coaching and sports media.

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8. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

As the episode winds down, the hosts briefly touch upon other topical stories, reaffirming their commitment to providing in-depth analysis and engaging discussions. They emphasize the evolving nature of sports, both within the confines of the NBA and the broader spectrum of professional leagues, reinforcing the necessity for adaptability and strategic foresight in team management and player development.

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Conclusion:

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, the collaboration between Colin and Paul Pierce offers listeners a deep dive into current sports issues, from the nuances of player performance and league evolution in the NBA to intricate team-building strategies in the NFL. The conversation is enriched with expert insights, personal anecdotes, and notable quotes, making it a valuable listen for sports enthusiasts seeking a comprehensive understanding of today’s sports dynamics.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

Now, let's get this party started.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. This is a hard league. Like you were known as a clutch player.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Is it fair for me to say I can love Jason, but there are times I think people have taken the ball out of his hands on his own team?

[Paul Pierce]

Now, that's a great question. Well, you know, I'm saying, listen, Jason Tatum is going to get criticized no matter what, because before he won a championship, they was like, can he get over the hump? Can he be this player? Can he be the guy? And now he's won a championship, and now look what we're sitting here talking about. Is he clutch? Well, let me tell you something, Colin. Jason, this is one of the more clutch players. If we just talk about, like, time and moment, but like big games when you need it. When I go back and look at game seven versus, what is it, Milwaukee.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Paul Pierce]

When he had the big game or that huge game in Philadelphia where they were on the ropes. Like if Philadelphia wins in Philadelphia a year ago, they would go up 3, 2, but he goes out for the 50 ball or something like that. Those are clutch moments in playoff games. Now there's going to be times. Listen, I'm going to tell you one thing. I've missed way more shots than the clutch than I've made. Jordan has, too, and he'll tell you that. But when it's on the big stage, that's where you want to see it the most. And I think that's where he doesn't get credit because we talk about, like, in Golden State, he didn't play his best. And we all know that he's young. Guys, listen, he's only, what, he just turned 27. Been the six conference finals already a championship.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, somebody said this to me last year when I was saying the same thing. They said you get punished today. Michael Jordan set the standard that you had to be a little bit of a jerk to be, you know, like.

[Paul Pierce]

He'S not a jerk.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's not what he is. Like, he went to Duke.

[Paul Pierce]

Like, we all know that. That what we think about Duke players.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, a certain class and they played together as a Team.

[Paul Pierce]

Well, they come off as more suburban guys. There's Carol Ye. This is. I don't know. I'm playing who. There's Duke in Carolina City. Suburbs. That's what Duke and Carolina is.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay.

[Paul Pierce]

And the suburb guys, they don't get the respect. They just don't. Out of Duke. 100%.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's interesting because I always look at him as a guy is. And I think it's harder for players. So even back in Michael Jordan's era, or your era at. At probably the beginning, you guys were all fighting for a sliver of the piece.

[Paul Pierce]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

All the guys now are getting paid. I mean, Jalen Brown's contract is a thousand times better than any Michael contract. And so I think there isn't an end. The league has changed. There's no hand check.

[Paul Pierce]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

So once that. Once you had the brawl in Detroit, the league has gotten more finesse. They don't like the physicality. They. And so players don't have to fight as much. Like a lot of it is keep your body healthy, get on the training table, be available for 68 regular season games. So here's where I defend Tatum. The world's changed. Yeah, it's not. I mean, go to your first couple years in the league. There were fights a lot in the.

[Paul Pierce]

NBA, practice in the games. Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

We had Sprewell attacking a coach.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, it's a different world today.

[Paul Pierce]

It. It really is a different world. As you say that when you got guys who are coming off the bench that can make 100 million and when you got guys from not only from AAU to college all the way through, can make millions of dollars, I think it takes away that competitive spirit a little bit. Not a little bit. Not a little bit. Because when you had that guy, when I came into the league, you had that guy make, you know what the minimum was? I think the minimum contract was like 500,000, you know what I'm saying? So half of that is already gone. Guys is trying to feed their family. You in the NBA, it's expectations and all of this. But now when I was exiting the league, kind of when guys was like, you know, what are you worried about? Guys was like, you know, some of the young guys saying, I'm worried about my brand. You know, that was the conversations that was going on in the locker room. I worry about my brand, this or that or this or that, and making my money. Because think about this. When you become the breadwinner for your family and you've made it, finally, you like it's sort of a sense of complacency, gets inside. Only the great ones don't look at the money. You know, I never looked at my contracts coming up. I could have signed a distension. I never looked at that. I always want the work to be the best. And then whatever happened, my agent called me and said, oh, you up for extension? Oh, I am. Oh, I am. Oh, I didn't know. Okay, how much? Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Paul Pierce]

Whatever. But it just takes some of the competitive nature, because you can't grab, because you can't hold. Because if you push a guy or you get a squabble, you gonna get suspended. 10 to 15 games. It just takes that fire out of it. Everyone likes each other.

[Colin Cowherd]

I know.

[Paul Pierce]

And the storyline is like. That was the storyline. You can't take the game on Sunday. Oh, this was born from the last game.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, the Pistons and mj, they hated each other. They still hate each other.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And that. That was interesting for me, a kid to watch that. Like, oh, let's see what's gonna happen. Like, it was like, almost like a movie, like a show, you know, it was like drama. There was drama, real drama in it. Like, where is it at today?

[Colin Cowherd]

So let's talk about that. I have defended JMac and I defend the NBA all time. All the time. And people say, well, everybody talks about the other era, and the players are more skilled now. And I think, you know, it's. I said this. When it comes to, like, politics, your political party can be in the dumps. I remember the Democrats got crushed three elections in a row. Then they found Bill Clinton. Everything was. Everything was fine. And it's the same in Sports. Luca and LeBron together now. Oh, the ratings are up. Oh, Jimmy Butler to the Warriors. The ratings are up. I do think this is true. International players, Paul, do not care about being faces of the league. They don't care. And they usually go to bad teams. We don't see them play in college. So by the time they're great, we don't know their story. Americans love stories. And I don't think the league needs a face of the league. But I do think because the league is now so international, it's harder to find. By the way, even if a kid goes to Duke, he goes for 30 games and he's gone.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Whereas, like, in football, Paul, I can watch a quarterback play at Ohio State four years, right? Like, I. Baker Mayfield comes out. I got a big Baker opinion. I barely know that So I just. My take is I don't think the league needs it, but I think it's harder to be a face of the league today.

[Paul Pierce]

Maybe the thing about the face of the league, Colin and Jason, is just like, it has to be accepted amongst people. It has to be, you know, like most, and I was saying this somewhat earlier, that, listen, most of the faces of the league and there's only been a few, like, they were kind of. You kind of saw it coming. Like, we knew Magic was going to be taking over the league by storm because it just. You had a chance to grow with him. You saw his story, then he go to the Lakers, then you had Bird, who was his counterpart. It was just like, oh, you gravitated toward that story. Then Michael Jordan comes along. You like, oh, he won a national championship as a freshman. Oh, he's on this USA team destroying pros right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

Very Tiger woods at 15 years old. You're like, okay, he's replacing the Bear.

[Paul Pierce]

Yes. You saw the upbringing of it. So, like now other faces of the league develop in the league, like Curry developed in the league, like Durant. You saw his be good, but he developed into that in the league because they won LeBron before he even won. He was going to become the chosen one right out of high school. It was like. It was like almost from Chalbourg. It's like you almost saw it coming. Like, now we're in a place to where the game is international. There's no second coming that we can see out of high school, out of college, and maybe we can develop some in the pros right now. Jason Tatum has the resume for it, but people aren't gravitating toward him like that because we live in the world to where we give, give, and everything is out public wise. He doesn't give that. You know what I'm saying? The social media, the interviews.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll throw this at you and I'm gonna sound like an old guy. He's a little more Drake than Kendrick Lamar. He's very. No, I mean, he's a little polished. He's got the resume. There's a lot of. Number one.

[Paul Pierce]

Well, Drake has been the face of hip hop, though. Yes, yes. Like, Kendrick just took that over.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay.

[Paul Pierce]

Like, he just took that over.

[Colin Cowherd]

That was gonna sound old.

[Paul Pierce]

Like, at no point has Tatum been the face, you know, But I think that's something that's like, there's so many great players and why can't the face be an international star? It's an international. I think they can be, but they don't want it. No. Comes into the league and says, hey, I want to be the face. No, you got to earn that. That has to be given to you. First of all, your shoes, your shoe contract. Really, the shoe companies make you the face. It helps a lot because when your shoes are selling out the door and you one of those players that you go to those AU tournaments, I go to them and I see who the kids are wearing, you'd be like, oh, okay. That's who. They gravitate.

[Colin Cowherd]

LeBron, MJ, Steph got their own shoe, whereas Tatum got a shoe in Jordan's brand.

[Paul Pierce]

Exactly.

[Colin Cowherd]

His own brand. Totally different.

[Paul Pierce]

That's the thing, though. Like, you know, like, players are gravitating toward Anthony Edwards. The youngins. That's who you got to look.

[Colin Cowherd]

He was going to be it.

[Paul Pierce]

That's what they. That's what they. That's the. You got to look at the youth.

[Colin Cowherd]

What if he played in Los Angeles?

[Paul Pierce]

Oh, man, Right now, see, that's.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think he'd be the face of the league.

[Paul Pierce]

He'll be on his way. Like, you could argue. Luca is probably going to be the face of the league. He not even trying. He not even trying. But he's in la. He got swag. People was like, oh, let me tell you this.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you're from la. So I made this argument. So you grow up in Europe, you're doing hookah bars and drinking when you're 16. That's the way it is in Europe.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

And I made this argument ad got in better shape living in LA and being around LeBron is that I spent this weekend in Chicago. Great food, but I don't think of health and wellness when I'm in Chicago. No, when I'm in la, I'm at creation. I'm getting green juices. I never eat sandwiches. I made this argument. Luka will get in better shape living in la next to LeBron.

[Paul Pierce]

Well, yeah, because he has that influence around him, too. Like, if he was in LA, no LeBron on a losing team. We gonna probably catch a few TMZ pictures of him at the hookah bar and drinking a few beers. I'm telling you.

[Colin Cowherd]

But there is something.

[Paul Pierce]

Because there's so much to do here.

[Colin Cowherd]

There is a lot, you know.

[Paul Pierce]

So thank God he has this positive influence. This guy has been the. The poster boy of health in all of sports. The guy who's played the longest, the best, at the highest level right here next to your locker. Of course you're going to get in better shape. If that influence don't do something for you, then what will Be sure to.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

This one's for the food obsessed.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Make some noise for the greatest shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Goat Greatest of their Era. And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

[Paul Pierce]

Peja 5. Dirk Ford.

[Colin Cowherd]

Peja is a leader.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, okay.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm mad at him.

[Paul Pierce]

I left him off my list, but I still like my list.

[Jason McIntyre]

You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

[Paul Pierce]

That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes, absolutely.

[Colin Cowherd]

Love it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.

[Colin Cowherd]

When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules for how we guard you.

[Paul Pierce]

There's a fear factor that's associated with.

[Colin Cowherd]

Anytime you're wide open, like, you might as well just count that and get on back on defense.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen to Goat G O T E Greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so we've had seven champions in seven years. You never repeated, but you did come back. I remember the year after that and won, like 60 plus games.

[Paul Pierce]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

So what is the hardest part about repeating? Because I'm watching Cleveland come back and beat Boston. Now they've got New York's number. I don't worry about that. I watched them beat Denver. But go back to your year. You had the best team. There's an argument you're almost better than next year after you won.

[Paul Pierce]

I think we were.

[Colin Cowherd]

And you didn't win. Why?

[Paul Pierce]

Because we lost Kevin Garnett. We did. Kevin Garnett got hurt the next year. We still won. He missed 30 games, and we still won 60 games. You know, but it's. It's a challenge. The health is the number one thing. And I think. And also, like you gotta say other teams, once you win, you set the model of what winning looks like. And like you say, and we all say it's a copycat league. So now players want to get players to counter what you got. So now we got to get better. So everybody got like, Cleveland got better. New York got better. After seeing that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Lakers just got better.

[Paul Pierce]

Lakers just got better. People see, Dallas just got better. So whereas the champs, they don't have a need to get better because we won. Now we. You gotta. Once you understand that, you have to set a new bar. You have to get better every year. And to the Celtics credit, I think the Celtics are better.

[Colin Cowherd]

This year, actually, you know what I think defensively, and I think this is the difference. I think it's hard to ask players on a Friday night in the regular season, give me your best defensive effort.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

If you look at the top, like, 12 best defensive players, Celtics have three of them, right? I think they have three.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

In the. In the. In the playoffs, when we're all equally rested.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

The game's on national tv. You are playing a defensive level. You're not playing on a Friday night in the NBA. Exactly.

[Paul Pierce]

And on one day of a scouting report, like, when you sit down and we go into this room for this week, and we scout you and say, all right, we got you all for seven games. We gonna cut off all y'all strengths and weaknesses. Now, if we can do this in a regular season, after one day, arrest, what you think we're gonna do after, like, four or five days of watching film, prepping for you, and we're healthy. Like, they're the most versatile defense in the league, easily, because you got wingmen.

[Colin Cowherd]

And they defend the rim, the wing.

[Paul Pierce]

And our guards can guard Biggs. I'm looking at Drew Holiday over there guarding Evan Mobley some nights, like, just switching on to him, just fighting them in the post and stuff like that. We got tough guards, we got tough wingman, and you know what Porzingis brings with his inside presence with Al Horford leadership. So I'm not really worried about them. Sometimes they can get complacent, you know, because of the regular season. I think that's the big challenge when you've already won and, you know, pretty much everybody got their money, so ain't nobody playing for no contract. Think about that. Think about that. Ain't nobody playing for all contracts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Cause Derek got his deal, didn't he? Is Derek getting paid? Yeah, he got his deal.

[Paul Pierce]

Everybody got their money. So, like, wherever you have a few guys that's like, playing for their money, it's like, they gonna play a little bit different. But everybody got their money. We won a championship. So, like, now the mindset is like, let's get to the playoffs. That's just. That's just human nature.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's great. You know, we don't get you a ton on the show because we don't want to bother you.

[Paul Pierce]

No. You know, I love coming on with y'all.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I love having you on the show, man. Always, always good times, by the way he goes and play. I'm not going to give you. I'm not going to give away too much Paul plays once a week in the league and never brags about it. J. Mac does. And you think you got Dominique here on the wing. I've heard about every game in the last two years, man.

[Paul Pierce]

I think he told me to win. He was like, what you owe for 200 now in the league, you made one shot.

[Jason McIntyre]

I love talking hoops with this guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, you should.

[Paul Pierce]

What is your game?

[Jason McIntyre]

My game is three and D. Oh, my goodness.

[Colin Cowherd]

His game is Zach Levine without the hops or the handles.

[Paul Pierce]

Vince Carter without the hops on the jumper.

[Jason McIntyre]

Paul has invited me to his new pickup game that he.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, come on, man.

[Paul Pierce]

Get a good sweat squad.

[Jason McIntyre]

And then he's gonna be like, I don't know this guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Wrap it up next. Live in Atlanta. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. It's the last game of the season.

[Paul Pierce]

And with amex, you can save time.

[Colin Cowherd]

With card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@american express.com With Amex, you can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus stays with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Jason McIntyre]

Make some noise for the Greatest Shooter of All time Steph Curry we went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Goat Greatest of Their Era and we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

[Paul Pierce]

Peja 5 Dirk Ford Paja is a lift him off my list, but I still like my list.

[Jason McIntyre]

You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

[Paul Pierce]

That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes, absolutely, absolutely love it. Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.

[Colin Cowherd]

When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules.

[Paul Pierce]

For how we guard you.

[Colin Cowherd]

There's a fear factor that's associated with anytime you're wide open.

[Paul Pierce]

Like you might as well just count.

[Jason McIntyre]

That and get back on defense. Listen to Goat G O T E Greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paul Pierce]

I'm Mark Seal.

[Colin Cowherd]

And I'm Nathan King.

[Paul Pierce]

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.

[Colin Cowherd]

The five families did not want us.

[Paul Pierce]

To shoot that picture.

[Colin Cowherd]

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli is based on my co host Mark's best selling book of the same title. And on this show we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the Godfather's birthday. From start to finish, this is really the first interview I've done in bed. We sift through innumerable accounts. 35 pages isn't very much, many of them conflicting. That's nonsense. There were 60 pages and try to get to the truth of what really happened.

[Jason McIntyre]

And they said we're finished.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is over. It only is not going to work. You gotta get rid of those guys.

[Paul Pierce]

It's a disaster.

[Colin Cowherd]

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others.

[Paul Pierce]

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Fox Sports who has been really the anchor of our NFL Sunday show for years here at Fox, which for 31 straight years has been the number one network show, pregame show among all networks. Jimmy Johnson announced his retirement on our show. Very emotional and one of the better guys and smarter guys I've ever worked with. He was our coach. He was your coach, NFL, college football and sort of our coach at Fox Sports as well. Sort of anchored it all, brought it all together between hosts and athletes and commentators and nobody cared more or did it better or is a bigger ally of Fox. And we appreciate his years. We hope to get him on occasionally and he will not stop watching football that we know. And here's J. Mac with the news.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, no, no.

[Paul Pierce]

Turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herd line news.

[Jason McIntyre]

Breaking news to end the show. Colin. The Cincinnati Bengals have just announced they tagged T. Higgins, their great wide receiver. He's been franchise tagged for a second straight year. I wasn't able to see if Higgins has responded on social media. We know he hasn't been thrilled with some of the shatter coming out of the organization, but this enables them now to work on a long term deal for him. I'm just curious your initial thoughts on a second straight year franchise tagging team.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, the franchise tag is legal. Players may not like it, but he's going to get paid more on a franchise single year than he would on an average if he had a longer contract. So he's going to be paid. I mean the good news is franchise tag makes you top five player in terms of compensation at your position. So he will be paid like a number one with the franchise tag big time money. I mean what will his franchise tag number be?

[Jason McIntyre]

Significant.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. So, and I think it's this is what teams do. Often teams do this when they're already paying somebody inside the unit. Let's say like right now the Chargers are paying Bosa and Khalil Mack. You can only do that for so long where you're paying, you know, kind of the same position or you know, it's hard to pay Chris Jones and another interior defensive lineman for the Chiefs. So right now his franchise tag will be 26 and a half million. That is a lot for a number two receiver.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's got to be the highest.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's number one receiver money.

[Jason McIntyre]

Actually the Eagles, Devontae Smith might be higher than him, but as a number two. Yeah, listen, you got to keep T. Higgins. It's going to keep Burrow happy. I just don't know if they're going to be able to fill out the rest of their roster.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, yeah they can. But like for instance, if you have Burrow, Jamar Chase and T. Higgins.

[Jason McIntyre]

But they tried that last year. They outscored a lot of people, but the defense couldn't.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, that's why you, that's why you spend your money and your draft capital on defensive players. I mean, I saw one NFL team this weekend sent no offensive coaches of the combine. They sent all defensive coaches and their take was that's where we're, that we got our offense fixed. So I think if I'm Cincinnati and I got my draft picks, I overwhelming. This is what Kansas City did years ago. Kansas City said we're going to pay Mahomes, we're going to pay Joe Tuney, we're going to pay Travis Kelsey and we're paying Chris Jones. So we're going to get as cheap as we can on the defensive end. They let Snead go the corner and so I think the Rams are doing this. Rams paid nobody on defense because they play a tight end, a right tackle, a quarterback, Cooper Cup. So I, I think what you have to do if you're Cincinnati, if you're going to pay Burrow and two receivers next two years, your draft capital overwhelmingly has to be on the defensive side. You can get cheaper labor on that side.

[Jason McIntyre]

Look at the Eagles. They locked up their quarterback, two receivers added Saquon Barkley and they have a ton of young studs on defense.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right. Jalen, Carter, Dean. Two corners. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just have to hit their defense.

[Colin Cowherd]

You have to hit your defensive pick.

[Jason McIntyre]

They haven't always done that, but it's difficult. Let's move on to another potential big story in the NFL and that's Miles Garrett and the Browns remaining at a crossroads. There was chatter over the weekend that the Buffalo Bills are making a push for Miles Garrett. But the only kicker is Cleveland has to start listening to offers. Apparently they will not pick up the phone, but the Bills are calling. It's like when I call you on some weekends to talk sports and you just ignore me. I guess that's what the Browns are doing with the Bills, but I like this attitude from Buffalo. Hey man, we're close, very close to taking down the team. You guys with a better team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Miles Garrett wants to play for a big time team. So ask yourself what teams feel like they need a little oomph to get over the Green Bay, Buffalo, Baltimore, Detroit. So now I think Detroit is going to draft an edge. I think that's what I keep all the mock drafts I see. Detroit's going to get somebody opposite of Aiden Hutchinson because their offense similarly is filled out. So Detroit's A prime example. They got their offense O line, tight end, receiver, quarterback back. They're fine. They have to go and hit on four or five defensive picks.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. What they give up 45 to Washington.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean some of that was they.

[Colin Cowherd]

Got to get Detroit has to get faster at linebacker much faster.

[Jason McIntyre]

Final story Colin is my New York Jets. They are shopping Devonte Adams and it sounds like the shopping trip is not going going well. He is set to earn 35mil in each of the next two seasons which makes it difficult to trade him. Like I mean who wants to absorb 35mil now as a Jets optimist I, I, I'm positive that somebody will step up and say you know what we could take caps going up. We're a wide receiver away from making the jump. Would the Chargers now if T. Higgins is off the chessboard do you turn your attention to Devonte Adams?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well yeah, I mean it's interesting. So New England with Drake May. So my, my take is Vrabel does not want to spend he's going to be very much like Harbaugh. He's going to draft wide receiver and spend his money on the O lines and D lines. I mean last year Harbaugh kept Mack and Bosa drafted receivers let Keenan go. Right. Let Mike Williams go. So I keep thinking all these receivers would be perfect in New England but I don't think that's not Brable's DNA.

[Jason McIntyre]

I would look at Houston which is going to move on from Diggs has had injuries at receiver and you don't want CJ Stroud taking another step back. I think they make a move on Devonte and everybody else thinks hey wait a sec why wouldn't devonte just go wherever Aaron Rodgers goes if the jets can't trade him they just have to release him and then Devonte Adams becomes very attractive. Here's a list of the highest cap hits for non quarterbacks and oh look Devonte Adams is at the top of the list. Not a lot of playoff there trips.

[Colin Cowherd]

There from CD I'm, I'm into I mean I like demonte Adams. It didn't, it didn't change the jets ascension. Some of that could have been I think coaching. I think he's got value. I think the kind of team that would go get him. Is there a rookie quarterback that needs help and it's a make or break year for the rookie quarterback Bo Nicks.

[Jason McIntyre]

Would they, would they?

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't think so. I think they're gonna draft well they're already paying Cortland Sutton. So no.

[Jason McIntyre]

Atlanta would they kick the tires now once they move on?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think they, I think Atlanta would. They're paying too much for Kirk Cousins next year not to play. I think, I think their goal defense.

[Jason McIntyre]

They gotta make the playoffs this year. There's some pressure in Atlanta.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I agree. J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. Good stuff today by Paul Pierce. I thought what Paul said is that, you know, and I had said this earlier about Jayson Tatum in the gold medal game. He had two points the previous game against Serbia. Coach's decision didn't play. That's not a face of the NBA. The Olympics is. There's a reason that LeBron keeps going to the Olympics. I mean it's, it's good for business. There, there is a reason Steph and LeBron and the great player, their agents want them to go to the Olympics. It's good for shoe sales. It's just good for, you know, keeping your name out there. Jason Tatum went to the Olympics and was struggling to get minutes. That's not a face of the league. And I also think Jayson Tatum's personality, he's not super hyper aggressive. He's just gifted, hard working, productive. And you get to the Olympics and you know, I just watching a documentary the other day, we beat, we beat the Dream Team. It's a great documentary out there. And just the egos among Magic and Bird and Jordan and you know, there's a lot of ego on the line in these gold medal in these Olympic basketball teams. And Tatum's a fairly eagle star in the NBA. He's just a, he's just a really, really good player. So it's, it like Friday night's a great example is that you know, Tatum had a big, he came out, I'm going to be the best player on the floor. And he was. But late in the game I'm, I'm looking for Jason Tatum to hit a bucket and he didn't get it. So I think the one thing you have to be, you have to be perceived as a great clutch player. Tatum is not perceived as a great cut clutch player. He's just perceived as a very, very good player who's very productive. But again the Celtics and Duke as your sort of backstops, your resume fillers help in that pursuit. And I do think the Celtics are going to win back to back championships. Jimmy Johnson, who's been at Fox for a long time, an NFL hall of Famer, a college football hall of Famer and a National association of Broadcasting hall of Famer, joined us earlier today to announce his retirement from Fox Sports. The most fun I've ever had in my career, and that's town Super Bowls and National championships was at Fox Sports. You know, I. I have an absolute ball with my friends on the set and the best friends I've ever had there with Fox. And. And then I tell you, on top of that, you know, I love working for Eric Shanks, our CEO and. And our producer, Bill Richards. But I've made a extremely difficult decision. I've been thinking about it for the last four or five years, and I've decided to retire from Fox. And I'm going to miss it. I'm going to miss all the guys, and I'll see them occasionally. But it has been a great run. Starting back 31 years ago, you know, it's. I was looking at the video as Jimmy was on, and we were showing the Dallas Cowboy video with Jerry Jones. And, you know, the backstory now, that's been fairly well documented. So when Jimmy came to Dallas, he replaced Tom Landry. I remember this well. Tom Landry was great religious conviction. He was sort of like almost a father figure. Total class, dignity. And Jimmy got. They got a lot of heat. Even though Dallas was a mess, when Jerry Jones let Tom Landry go and hire Jimmy, it was initially met with a derision and criticism because Jimmy was seen as sort of young and brash, and that was, of course, Jerry Jones. And. And they weren't very good out of the chute. So it was easy to pile on Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones. But Jerry took $150 million loan, and for the first couple, two, three years, they had to pay that loan off. And so Jerry was not in the football operation side. They talk every day maybe, but it was after. And then he paid the loan off and they started making big money. And, you know, Jerry Jones said, this is my toy. I want to have fun with it. And since that time, I think, in my opinion, Jerry Jones has meddled too much with football to the point now where they've just made too many mistakes. And they. They feel like Maybe they're the 16th, 17th best team in the league with a new coaching staff. But it was an incredible ride. And it's. And. And Jimmy did something that it's now been discussed in our show. But people, teams did not make trades. And not only. It just shows you how important relentlessness is. This legend, Jimmy Johnson, in three separate hall of Fames, got nothing but crap his first year to year and a half in Dallas. And then when he made that trade of Herschel Walker, that was so unsettling, people didn't know what to make of it. Now that's sort of the guide. In fact, if you look up NFL draft chart, if you google that, I look at, you know, I printed that thing multiple times. That's, that's kind of a creation of Jimmy Johnson. So he believed in himself, he believed in the process. But even for an all time three different hall of fames, coach and broadcaster, it's tough. Those are mean streets and you're going to have to overcome and deal with turbulence and scorn and derision. And he did it. And today, what a career. Jimmy retired at Fox. We'll see you tomorrow. This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser podcast. On a more serious note, I'm still thinking about that commercial with Tom Brady and Snoop Dogg hating on each other because when you listen to the reasons for hating someone or something, you realize just how stupid they really are. There is too much hate in this country and it's gotta stop. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up, call it out and you can learn more by following oupwithhate.

[Jason McIntyre]

Make some noise for the greatest shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from all star week weekend for a new podcast called goat greatest of their era. And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s Asia 5. Dirk Ford Paja is a L. You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

[Paul Pierce]

That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes, absolutely.

[Paul Pierce]

Love it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen to Goat G o t e Greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paul Pierce]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing. I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd.

[Colin Cowherd]

I love writing more than anything. You're left alone, you know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on.

[Paul Pierce]

And actor and comedian Jack McBrayer.

[Colin Cowherd]

The most important aspect is the collaboration with people that I like, I trust are talented. That has been the most amazing gift to me about this crazy business that we've chosen. Meeting these people who have such diverse talents and you're able to create something together.

[Paul Pierce]

Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events. Tune in to my new podcast, Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legge, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.