Hour 3 - Paul Pierce stops by The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 3: Paul Pierce Stops by The Herd

Release Date: May 9, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest: Paul Pierce
Platform: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Introduction

In the third hour of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," former NBA star Paul Pierce joins host Colin Cowherd for an in-depth discussion on current NBA dynamics, player performances, and playoff strategies. The conversation delves into the mindset required for championship success, the role of "one" players in teams, and specific analyses of ongoing playoff series.

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Key Topics Discussed

1. The Concept of "One" Players in the NBA

• Definition and Criteria:

  • Colin Cowherd (04:17): Defines a "one" as a player who can be the best on a championship team, emphasizing attributes like productivity, durability, emotional and physical availability, and a competitive "dog" mentality.
  • Paul Pierce (04:58): Agrees with the importance of mentality, highlighting that while talent is crucial, the right mindset can propel players further in their careers.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Cowherd (07:16): "One is about durability and toughness and resilience and dog."
  • Pierce (04:23): "That's fair. Times. Because I feel like that about him, you know, because I see it, I know it's in him because I've seen it a bunch of times."

2. Analysis of Jalen Brunson as a "One"

• Cowherd's Perspective:

  • Cowherd (07:16): Positions Jalen Brunson as a potential "one" based on his consistency, durability, and ability to be a productive leader.

• Pierce's Counterpoint:

  • Pierce (08:20): While praising Brunson’s skills, he expresses skepticism about Brunson being the primary leader on a championship team, likening essential roles to those of Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Cowherd (07:35): "You got to be a dog at least some of the time. You got to want to close. You can't run from the shot."
  • Pierce (08:32): "Point guards, as good as they are, as good as he is, I don't think a point guard can be your best player."

3. Playoff Strategies and Team Dynamics

• Physicality in Playoffs:

  • Cowherd (05:21): Commends the NBA’s allowance of a more physical playoff brand, suggesting it benefits less talented teams by leveling the playing field.
  • Pierce (06:02): Reflects on his playing days, advocating for a "junked-up" game involving fouling and physical play to counteract superior teams.

• Mentality Over Game Planning:

  • Pierce (03:41): Emphasizes that losing a lead is often a mental lapse rather than a failure in game planning, stressing the importance of mental toughness.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Pierce (06:34): "We gotta junk the game up. And by saying that, we gotta foul, we gotta grab, we gotta push, we gotta do things that they're not used to doing."
  • Cowherd (05:24): "The NBA is allowing a very physical playoff brand. Yeah, so do I. And for the record, that's why you flourished in the playoffs."

4. Draymond Green and the Role of the "Villain"

• Cowherd’s Defense:

  • Cowherd (09:02): Defends Draymond Green, positioning him alongside historical "villains" like Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest, praising his ability to disrupt opponents both offensively and mentally.

• Pierce’s Insights:

  • Pierce (10:13): Suggests that while Green embraces his antagonistic role, he could learn from Rodman’s subtler approach to getting under opponents' skin without excessive antics.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Cowherd (09:02): "Draymond's a little more Bill Lambert, a little more tackling and obvious."
  • Pierce (10:13): "Draymond should study Dennis Rodman. Because Dennis Rodman was so good at getting under your skin without all the extras."

5. Current Playoff Series: Celtics vs. Knicks

• Series Analysis:

  • Cowherd (19:26): Discusses how the Celtics are viewed as the smarter, more analytical team ("math guys") compared to the Knicks' more physical, playground-style play.

• Pierce’s Concerns:

  • Pierce (34:31): Expresses worry over Celtics' leadership and coaching adjustments, especially if they continue to falter against the Knicks.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Pierce (09:32): "They may get out of this series with the Celtics, I just think they're missing one piece and it could be like a Giannis in New York."
  • Cowherd (34:31): "What say you?"

6. The Role of Leadership and Team Cohesion

• Importance of Team Belief:

  • Pierce (24:51): Highlights Bo Nix’s role in the Denver Broncos, emphasizing his ability to be a cornerstone and attract players to the franchise, similar to the impact of Peyton Manning.

• Cowherd’s Take:

  • Cowherd (25:16): Agrees on the significance of internal belief within the team structure.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Pierce (24:51): "He hangs with the guys, you know, he's the guy that, you know, players want to be around."
  • Cowherd (25:16): "Bonix. A lot of people were doubting the old boaster."

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Insights and Conclusions

Colin Cowherd and Paul Pierce engage in a candid discussion about the intricate balance between talent, mentality, and physicality in the NBA.

• "One" Players: Both agree that having a player who can lead a team is critical for championship success, though Pierce remains cautious about point guards being primary leaders.
• Physical Play: They acknowledge the strategic advantage that a more physical playoff approach can offer, leveling the playing field against more analytically driven teams.
• Leadership Dynamics: Emphasizing the importance of team cohesion and strong leadership, they discuss how cornerstone players like Bo Nix can influence team culture and performance.
• Playoff Strategies: The conversation underscores the need for teams to adapt their strategies and maintain mental toughness to navigate the pressures of the playoffs effectively.

Overall, the episode provides listeners with a deep dive into the factors that contribute to NBA playoff success, the evolving roles of players, and the significance of mindset and leadership within teams. The combination of Cowherd’s analytical perspective and Pierce’s firsthand experience offers a well-rounded examination of current NBA narratives.

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Notable Quotes Summary

• Cowherd (07:35): "You got to be a dog at least some of the time. You got to want to close. You can't run from the shot."
• Pierce (04:23): "That's fair. Times. Because I feel like that about him, you know, because I see it, I know it's in him because I've seen it a bunch of times."
• Pierce (06:02): "We gotta junk the game up. And by saying that, we gotta foul, we gotta grab, we gotta push, we gotta do things that they're not used to doing."
• Cowherd (09:02): "Draymond's a little more Bill Lambert, a little more tackling and obvious."
• Pierce (10:13): "Draymond should study Dennis Rodman. Because Dennis Rodman was so good at getting under your skin without all the extras."

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Conclusion

This episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" featuring Paul Pierce offers valuable insights into the strategic elements of basketball playoff success, the essential qualities of impactful players, and the importance of leadership and mental resilience. Through engaging dialogue and expert analysis, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the current NBA landscape and the nuanced factors that drive team performance in high-stakes scenarios.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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Done.

[Paul Pierce]

See you dad.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Paul Pierce]

Look at this.

[Colin Cowherd]

Look how dark it is out.

[Paul Pierce]

Five in the morning.

[Colin Cowherd]

Five in. Look at that.

[Paul Pierce]

It took me seven hours. I'm still exhausted. Can't you tell Luke So by the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Way, when Paul finally arrived at work, maybe you've seen this scene before, he had to be wheeled into work.

[Paul Pierce]

Brings back memories, huh?

[Colin Cowherd]

Seven hours. What are your feet? You got size 14, 15ft.

[Paul Pierce]

My feet are torched right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

What? Here's my thing. It's one thing to blow a 20 point lead in game one. I didn't look at that as embarrassing. I said, listen, you led by 20, you beat this team all year. What am I supposed to make of that offense in the last eight minutes of game two at home?

[Paul Pierce]

You know what, Colin? That's a mindset. Truthfully. That has nothing to do with game planning. That's a mindset. So many like, the game plan is there. You go up 20. The game plan is there. There's nothing. Missoula. Nothing more he can do. The game plan is there, the blueprint is there. Y' all did it all year long. Y' all go. Y' all go about the game print for three quarters and then all of a sudden just mental lapse in the fourth quarter. That's all it is. It's not, it's not ex's all.

[Colin Cowherd]

At this point, why doesn't Tatum and I've said, I understand the fascination and the analytics and Brad Stevens building a three point shooting roster.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

But at some point I, and I've said this. Michael and Kobe and Paul Pierce would have pushed back and said, guys, I'm getting a basket for sure. I think Jason is too collaborative. Dude, grab the ball and take it to the basket four or five times in a row. Even his last shot, left side fall away. Is it fair to say he has to be convinced to be a dog?

[Paul Pierce]

That's. That's fair. Times. Because I feel like that about him, you know, because I see it, I know it's in him because I've seen it a bunch of times.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Paul Pierce]

I mean, you just don't become a first team all NBA player without some of it. Yes, exactly. I mean, talent could take you so far. I get it. But mentality can take you further. And the guys that you talk about have it all the time and never cut it off. Sometimes I feel like he goes away, he forgets about it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Paul Pierce]

And has to be constantly reminded to be that way.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. The NBA is allowing a very physical playoff brand.

[Paul Pierce]

I love it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, so do I. And for the record, that's why you flourished in the playoffs. You were a physical player. You play defense. Can I argue that this level of physicality, Chris Finch and Steve Kerr, like, this is the next level, that it actually, I could argue, benefits the less talented team. This is going to be a close series because the Knicks aren't pretty, the Celtics are pretty. Everybody can pass and shoot the Knicks art. And when you let OG grab and lean that the new officiating leans into New York's favorite.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, you know what? You know what's so crazy about that? I always said when I played on teams that weren't. Wasn't as good, I said, we have to do something different. When I played at the park, when I played at au, when I played in high school, when we weren't a better team, that team, I said, you got. You know what, guys? And this was the game plan. This was always the game plan. Collins. Since I've been a kid, I said, we gotta junk up the game.

[Colin Cowherd]

Junk it up.

[Paul Pierce]

We gotta junk the game up. And by saying that, we gotta foul, we gotta grab, we gotta push, we gotta do things that they not used to doing. We gotta take this game to the playgrounds.

[Colin Cowherd]

So this is what we said about the Knicks. The playground is beating the classroom.

[Paul Pierce]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

And the Knicks are a playground team and the other guys are math guys.

[Paul Pierce]

Absolutely. That's exactly what you see right here. And that's the only way you bring a team that's up here to you, down to your level, you junk it up. It's like a boxing match, you know what I'm saying? Like a guy was more talented, but then you start grabbing, holding, you know, doing things that this better boxer just not used to doing. And you junk it up. Body blows, body blow, grabbing, holding, elbow, head button. You start doing things. And that's what the Knicks are doing. Right to the Celtics.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I, I said this. I was very reluctant to say Jalen Brunson's a one, but I gotta tell you, one is about durability and toughness and resilience in dog. Yeah, I think he's a one.

[Paul Pierce]

What does that mean?

[Colin Cowherd]

I. I have.

[Paul Pierce]

He can be your best player on the championship team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. Here's. Here's what I say. There's four things to be a one, okay? Productivity, can't average nine a game. You have to be emotionally and physically ready to play every night. You have to be durable. Kawhi Leonard's available 38. That's not a one. I can't build around you. And four, you have to have a dog. You got to be a dog at least some of the time. You got to want to close. You can't run from the shot. And then I look at him and I go, okay. I'm not saying he's LeBron in his prime. I'm not saying he's Paul Pierce. I'm not saying he's Tatum. But what box doesn't? He's a great closer. He's productive, he's durable. He's emotionally always available. There are no. He has bad games. He never has a no show game.

[Paul Pierce]

I just like, Jalen Brunson is an amazing player. He's one of the top point guards. I would love him to be on the next Olympic team when it gets to la. I just don't think he can be your best player on A championship team.

[Colin Cowherd]

1A, he can be 1A. Giannis goes to New York, he can.

[Paul Pierce]

Be the okay, right.

[Colin Cowherd]

He'll have the ball more than Giannis. Yeah, he'll hit the free throws late over Giannis. Yes, but Giannis will be the force.

[Paul Pierce]

Absolutely. Like Kobe and, and Shaq. You know what I'm saying? Kobe was the finisher, but we all knew Shaq was dominant and all of that. Yeah, I agree. But like, I just. Point guards, as good as they are, as good as he is, I don't think a point guard can be your best player. Now, if your point guard is your best player on a championship team, that means he's an all time great. I'm Talking about top 10, Seth, Magic, Isaiah, that, that, and that comes around almost never. You have to have the dynamic wing. I say this all the time. Their dynamic wing has to be your best player on a championship.

[Colin Cowherd]

I most agree. Yeah. Yeah.

[Paul Pierce]

And so as good as he is and they may get out of this series with the Celtics, I just think they're missing one piece and it could be like a Giannis in New York.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so I have defended Draymond Green for a long time. I've said this. The three villains in league history that I watched were Rodman, Lambert and Draymond. They leaned into it. They were comfortable being it. Lambert and Draymond are better offensively than Rodman. They take your best offensive player, they're going to ugly up the game. They're going to get technicals. They will be. Fans will be the rudest and sometimes inappropriate toward them. Aggression meets aggression. But I don't. When Draymond says the league is. He feels the league is picking on him. My take is, bro, you chose to be the wrestling heel.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, yeah. You know what? Draymond, he definitely chose that. Like, I watch his antics and I see it. I know how guys do. And he, like, he's flailing purposely. Cause I've seen it. I've been in a game where guys do that. And yeah, he's definitely embraced it. But it has to be a point where he should study Dennis Rodman. Cause Dennis Rodman was so good at getting under your skin without all the extras. Like how he used to force Alonzo Mourning to get technicals. Or Karl Malone. Like, you know how he would stand at the free throw line, stare at him. Little stuff like that. Like, he would just get under their skin. I used to watch Robin, like, dang, he not even doing all the bull crap stuff like Draymond elbowing. But he's under this guy's skin and he is out of his game right now. And I think Draymond should study that because that's. He's like the new generation.

[Colin Cowherd]

That Draymond's a little more Bill Lambert, a little more tackling and obvious.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, yeah. He's a more like, was there ever.

[Colin Cowherd]

A place, obviously when you came, you were from la, so you weren't a real villain, even though you were a Celtic. Like, there were a lot of people that loved you in la. Did you ever go into any arena and feel like, man, they hate me here.

[Paul Pierce]

Oh, man, lot of arenas, man. Indiana, Toronto. I'll never forget that because I. When I got to Washington, I said something prior to the playoffs, and I just remember when I got introduced, it was boos. But I just think being a Celtic is. You're a villain. Like, it doesn't even matter. Like how we talk about Tatum, how he talked about Larry Bird and all. Constant. The best. Celtics were always just like. It was always the villain Celtic. And it always carried you wherever you went. It carried me when I left Boston, you know, in Brooklyn, I got booed at the All Star Game. Here in la, I did. I got introduced for the three point contest. I was the defending three point champ. And I came back and the next year I was in LA and they introduced me and they booed me and I was like, damn, Like, I'm from down the street. Yeah, I'm from around the way. Around the way. So, I mean, it never bothered me. But that. That was probably the only time it bothered me because it was the All Star Game, and I'm like, These. Everybody here is not LA fans like, come on.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, kid, give it a try. Nice.

[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Knees too. Okay. Yep, there you go. New Instagram Teen Accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks. Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC. Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini credit card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini credit card is pretty much a no brainer. And right now you can grab a 200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card. To learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again. Go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini credit card is issued by Web Bank. In order to Qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant Rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts. This content is not investment advice and trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees, and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Okay, so I did this list earlier. J. Mac didn't love it. I said, don't. Just because a guy scores James Harden doesn't mean he's a one. I need guys that play both ends. I need guys that are available emotionally, physically. I need dog. And the truth is this is my current list. Now, Butler may have been that four years ago. Okay, so my six, the best sidekicks. Jaylen Brown, Butler, Durant, Kawhi, Holmgren, Davis. Davis. Just offensively, I'm not quite sure what I get night tonight. You said to me, well, where's LeBron?

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, LeBron should be on this list. Top NBA sidekicks. Jamal Murray should be on this list.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, Jamal and Booker were my next two.

[Paul Pierce]

Okay, okay. Well, definitely LeBron now.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you think LeBron is a two?

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I witnessed it the last 30 games of the season. I saw Luka take over the dynamics of the silt of the. Of the Lakers, become the guy number one in jersey sales, cheered amongst the fans, and LeBron took the back seat. And that's what pushed him to the number three seed in the West.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I argue there are 20 ones in the league. J. Mac's like, there's 20.

[Paul Pierce]

No.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so let's do it again. So I. He said Halliburton and I. I said, oh, that's a.

[Paul Pierce]

No, no, not a one. What are we talking about ones, Colin?

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, one is.

[Paul Pierce]

What is a one?

[Colin Cowherd]

Productivity.

[Paul Pierce]

No, a one is he. Can he be the best player on a championship team? That's a one.

[Colin Cowherd]

You don't think Halliburton can win a title?

[Paul Pierce]

I think he can win a title. But can he be the best player on a championship team?

[Colin Cowherd]

They win tonight, he's. He's gonna be in the Eastern Conference finals against the Knicks.

[Paul Pierce]

Can he be the best player on a championship?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, then there's like four in the world.

[Paul Pierce]

There's only four or five that can win it every year.

[Colin Cowherd]

Those Are the only ones.

[Paul Pierce]

Yep.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you're telling me, do you? Do you? Okay, let me. Let me think about this. Hold on. Is SG1?

[Paul Pierce]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

You think that team can win?

[Paul Pierce]

Yes. Is Joker a one? Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Always the best player in the world.

[Paul Pierce]

Yes. Who are the contenders?

[Colin Cowherd]

Giannis. Okay. Okay. Tatum.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah. He sold.

[J. Mac]

He could.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Paul Pierce]

But he did it. Well, he already did.

[Colin Cowherd]

He did it. Jalen Brown won the mvp.

[Paul Pierce]

Okay. But we all know.

[Colin Cowherd]

Is Ant A one.

[Paul Pierce]

Absolutely.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. I think is Kawhi.

[Paul Pierce]

No. Not no more.

[Colin Cowherd]

Got to give me more than 40 games.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah. Not no more.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you don't think so? Like, I think leadership matters. I never thought Harden was a one. He didn't defend by May and June. He was so worn out because he had the ball in his hands. I never thought he was a one. Thought he was a great number two.

[Paul Pierce]

He could have paired him with somebody else. He could have won it. He didn't have a good parent.

[Colin Cowherd]

How about Donovan Mitchell?

[Paul Pierce]

That's a good one right there.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think he's the one.

[Paul Pierce]

I'm conflicted with Donovan Mitchell because of his size at 64, 63. That conflicts me.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. So I'll tell you one I never thought I. I don't buy into Embiid. Even when he was healthier. I think he disrupts your offense. I think he's moody. I think he was not available. Never been to a conference championship in the. When LeBron left the east and it was wide open. Couldn't win a second playoff series.

[Paul Pierce]

I think MB can. He's been an MVP in this league. There's the formula. To win it all, you have to have an MVP candidate.

[Colin Cowherd]

That was a wobbly mvp.

[Paul Pierce]

That wasn't wobbly one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Jokic.

[Paul Pierce]

Everybody was like, yus could have got, but he was still first team all.

[Colin Cowherd]

Shouldn't you have to win a second playoff series in the East? I'm not. I'm not asking much.

[Paul Pierce]

I mean, he had. He had to run into the Celtics.

[Colin Cowherd]

That was before.

[Paul Pierce]

That was. That's like. That's like Baltimore or the Buffalo Bills keep having to run into each other. Or Kansas City. We all know they could probably win it, but they keep the path. This is a wrong path for them.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, so you like Embiid more than I do.

[Paul Pierce]

I like him.

[Colin Cowherd]

You like Harden more than I do. Halliburton has done something Embiid hasn't.

[Paul Pierce]

Yeah, he's had a better team.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's going to be on his second Eastern Conference finals as a kid.

[Paul Pierce]

That's true.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you don't you're one of these overrated guys.

[Paul Pierce]

No, I. I wouldn't have called him overrated. He's one of those guys that's mind boggling because it seems like he elevates his game in the playoffs. I've seen that, like, now over multiple years. He's like. He's like Jimmy Butler in a way.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Paul Pierce]

You know what I'm saying? Like Jimmy Butler. Kind of like he gets through the regular season, he's a Fringe all Star. But then playoffs, he just becomes this mega superstar, you know, and that's Halliburton.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. Good seeing you, my man.

[Paul Pierce]

Good to see you.

[Colin Cowherd]

Always look at the great Paul Pierce, the Hall of Famer wobbling into work today. J. Mac.

[J. Mac]

No, no, no, no.

[Paul Pierce]

Turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herd line news.

[J. Mac]

I thought you might have asked him. Cade Cunningham or Bank?

[Colin Cowherd]

Think. I think Van Caro's got. Oh, I love him.

[Paul Pierce]

I love Van Carol.

[Colin Cowherd]

So do I. I love him.

[J. Mac]

Kenny, you talk about Embiid making a conference final. Ben Caro hasn't won a playoff series yet.

[Colin Cowherd]

Dude. Dude, just. Van Carol's got.

[J. Mac]

He's great dog.

[Colin Cowherd]

Productive, available, physical. No, he's not. Won't play defense, doesn't get along with teammates.

[Paul Pierce]

That's it.

[J. Mac]

It's a fun game, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

How about Cade Cunningham? He's close.

[Paul Pierce]

He's close.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's close.

[Paul Pierce]

He's young still. Yeah, he's turning into it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Wemby will be a one.

[Paul Pierce]

Oh, he already won to me. What?

[J. Mac]

All right, Kyle, let's get started with the Denver Nuggets. They got blasted in by 43 points in game two. Series is even headed to Denver for tonight's game three. Interim coach David Adelman spoke to the mindset his team needs to have if they want to bounce back.

[Colin Cowherd]

You can't just say, hey, let's just have a mental day, move on. You know, we're good. We split. It's not the case. If we want to win game three, things have to be different. Our mentality has to be different. One and two. If our mentality is different, I think that allows you to be more impactful with your adjustments and what you can do to them to change the course.

[J. Mac]

Of what we saw last night.

[Colin Cowherd]

So guys are great. Like, they've been communicative. A lot of guys had thoughts on what they felt last night, and that allows you to move on and do things better tomorrow.

[J. Mac]

Yay or nay. You got nuggets.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, OKC's favorite for a reason. All I said is when you said they were going to sweep him. I said, nobody is sweeping Denver. Too many good players.

[J. Mac]

It's funny. I bashed the Thunder all season. Then I fell for him right when the first round dispatch of the Memphis Grizzlies. And now I'm like, gosh, these guys stink. By the way, those jerseys, you see Yokich, you see that bug on the bottom of the screen? I cannot stand those 52. It's so dumb. Why do they wear those?

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't like them.

[J. Mac]

Some of the worst jerseys out there. By the way, the old Nuggets logo when you were like an Alex English fan with the Denver skyline lever.

[Colin Cowherd]

Dan Isle.

[J. Mac]

There you go. Danny Shayes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[J. Mac]

Dude, that's what I'm. I have a Denver Nuggets.

[Colin Cowherd]

A cityscape.

[J. Mac]

Yes. I love that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I don't know why the Sonics had a little bit of that, too.

[J. Mac]

Oh, Sonics.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[J. Mac]

Sonic's logo was fire. Next up. Oh, look, it's the Cowboys and George Pickens. Here's a new angle for you. So Pickens spoke about what it's going to be like in Dallas, and he said, I'm worried about coming here and trying to build a winning culture. Me winning a national championship at Georgia. I definitely know how to win.

[Colin Cowherd]

Colin, that doesn't.

[J. Mac]

George Pickens is on a franchise that hasn't had a losing record under Mike Tomlinson, and he now wants to build a winning franchise, a winning culture in Dallas. You think Dak Prescott and Michael Parsons are looking at him like, bro, what are you talking about? We won 11 games three years in a row. What is Pickens delusional? This goes to your point earlier about how teams were laughing when they were looking at.

[Colin Cowherd]

Jeff Howe reported team just rolled Horizon. This is I. I'm telling you, the Cowboys, Jerry Jones is being becoming the older Al Davis.

[J. Mac]

That Al Davis analogy is going to be good this year. You'll be using that once a week when they're flailing at six and twice.

[Colin Cowherd]

We'll see how the season goes. Yeah.

[J. Mac]

Was it Chase Daniel on the show before us was like, hey, Cowboys, this year, look out. I. You got to pinpoint that for me. I don't see it at all.

[Colin Cowherd]

Fourth place. That.

[J. Mac]

That might be a little harsh, but final story is to your boy Bo Nicks. Colin, tremendous rookie season, enters year two trying to get back to the playoffs and maybe get back to a Super bowl with Nix's success. Former Broncos Cornerback Chris Harris Jr. He says Denver has something they haven't had since Peyton Manning.

[Paul Pierce]

He hangs with the guys, you know, he's the guy that, you know, players want to be around. And we haven't had a guy that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Was a big recruiter other than since Peyton Manning. Right?

[Paul Pierce]

Guys wanted to, everybody wanted to come to Denver when we had Peyton.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right? So now to be able to have.

[Paul Pierce]

A guy like Bo, who's a cornerstone guy for us, we believe in him in the franchise. The players believe in them.

[Colin Cowherd]

Everybody in there, in, in the building believes in them.

[Paul Pierce]

So now everybody outside sees that. They feel that energy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Bonix. A lot of people were doubting the old boaster.

[J. Mac]

I wonder if this is shade at Russell Wilson. Nobody was hyped to go play with Russell Wilson. I find it hard to believe veterans are like, I can't wait to play with Bo Nicks.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, Bo Nicks isn't getting paid for four years so guys can go there and get paid. That's why guys like playing with rookie quarterbacks. That's one of the reasons it's like I can. They can go recruit two or three all stars a year.

[J. Mac]

So who you got in the AFC West?

[Colin Cowherd]

Chargers. Right. Chargers, 12 wins, Denver and Kansas City in the 10 win territory. Nick Wright has no idea what's around the corner. J. Mac with the news.

[J. Mac]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, tomorrow's headlines today. Next, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost every anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on. Alright, sweetie pie, buckle up. Good job.

[J. Mac]

Or ring the bell on their bike.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, kid, give it a try. Nice.

[J. Mac]

Or remember their elbow pads.

[Colin Cowherd]

Knees too. Okay. Yep, there you go. New Instagram Teen Accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks. Capital One Bank Guy what's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com bank capital1NA member FDIC. Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini credit card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini credit card is pretty much a no brainer. And right now you can grab a 200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit card is issued by Web Bank. In order to Qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Oh, J. Max got a little update from Cleveland Browns camp. What did you hear? J Mac?

[J. Mac]

No, you know, they' 11 on 11, seven on sevens and Dylan Gabriel's leading off every drill ahead of Shador Sanders at rookie mini camp. Shouldn't surprise anybody, but you know that's going to be a big storyline for some of these Shador fanboys in the media. And there are a lot of them.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh yeah, yeah. All right, you know what we call it? We're going into games three and four starting tonight. We call it tomorrow's headlines today. What's the headline? The Cats Acer Series.

[J. Mac]

This is tough because, you know, there's been one guy in sports media who likes the Indiana Pacers a lot. He's sitting across from you right now, running his mouth. The headline will be Hallelujah. Holy smokes. Tyrese is him. Look at that Halliburton. A little Pope reference there. I'm. I'm sorry. Paul Pierce had a good point. Halliburton in the playoffs is a different guy. Yeah, he's just a beast down the stretch, takes over games. The step back three right here. The game winner over Tiger Rome. By the way, why is Ty Jerome guarding him on an island?

[Colin Cowherd]

Give me a break.

[J. Mac]

I like the Pacers a lot coming in. I like them in this, in this game. I like them tonight. And I think you gotta wonder like, geez, Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, all that great regular season up in smoke in basically a couple of games against the Pacers. Halliburton going back to the conference finals and they'll be playing, we'll see, Knicks or Celtics.

[Colin Cowherd]

Tomorrow's headlines today. Burger Nugget series goes now to Mile High.

[J. Mac]

You know you've got me. You've been keep with us all. Like keep an eye on Denver. Bet Denver look out. I don't know if I can get there, Colin. We'll talk about it. The headline will Be chat Flix and Chill OKC shares Shifi password Yes. You know, I. I don't know. Something just tells me they're going to turn it on again. I didn't watch a ton of game two because they were up by 50 in like the second quarter, but there's just. I got questions about Denver. You don't have as many like ya obviously could be a monster. What? Yeah, 42 and 22 in game one. But Colin, they were down double digits in the fourth quarter in that game. They needed a miraculous rally, some misf. They needed a lot to go their way just to steal one. I don't know why you're so confident in Denver. Is it the.

[Colin Cowherd]

I just think championship DNA. They have four good players in their prime. Jokic, Jamal Gordon and Port. Those guys are all in their prime. And their playoff experience, you're not sweeping this team. They're going to win one of those home games. They're winning one of them.

[J. Mac]

Well, if they win game three, that puts a lot of pressure on the young Thunder, who. I mean, they're turning to like Alex Caruso in crunch time.

[Colin Cowherd]

And Chet, Chad Hungren looked nervous.

[J. Mac]

He looked terrified and he looked lost defensively when he gave up the three to Aaron Gordon in transition. J Dub having another terrible series. By the way, he was not good last year against Dallas. Go look it up. He ain't a number two. Chet Holmgren is going to have to be the guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Catcher 2.

[J. Mac]

By the way, Chet's possibly struggling because Jokic is leaning on him all game long. Chet's like what, 210 pounds? Jokic is like 260. And Chet looked tired and worn down at the end of that one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Tomorrow's headlines day. Oh, Celtics, Knicks. What say you?

[J. Mac]

As a Knicks fan, I should be stoked. But Colin, now I'm nervous. Now it's like you're playing with the lead. You gotta hold off. Mighty Boston. The headline will be Boston book smart. New England Nerds do their homework. We got Jason Tatum nerding it out. I think the Celtics win game three. Now, I don't know if you see what saw what dropped today, but there's a new Superman movie coming out. And in the commercial they use Jason. Saw that as Clark Kent and he's got the glasses on and then he rips open the shirt. Can he be Superman, Colin? I know he can.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, they're going to play better down the stretch. I think they're going to tweak this. And when they lead late, they're just not going to Jack Threes. I mean, you gotta. You. You have to evolve at some point. These games are circumstantial. You can't just go, this was our game plan. We're not tweaking.

[J. Mac]

Yeah. Is he capable of that? Missoula, I. I'm gonna be honest. I think he's in deep trouble. I think if they lose this game, he's toast at the end of the. I think he's gonna get canned. Colin, you go down 03 to the Knicks.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, if you got swept by the.

[J. Mac]

Knicks, even a gentleman sweep, it doesn't matter like Colin. That cannot happen off a title with the same team they brought back. They were a juggernaut all season, and he can't make one adjustment in a series against New York. New York was in trouble against Detroit. I don't know. I'm worried about Missoula, but I do think Tatum comes through. I think he's a superstar. And I looked this up. He averaged 33 and a half points a game in the regular season against the Knicks. It was his tied for his best against any team in the league. And now he has two bad games and we're tossing him out. He's gonna be fine.

[Colin Cowherd]

Tomorrow's headline today, I can guess this one. Timberwolves Warrior Series.

[J. Mac]

Steph Curry's my guy. That's the one athlete that I wanted a picture with that I got. He went to my gym to work out. I'm a Steph Curry guy. Without him, I don't know what the warriors have. The headline will be the Wolf of Ball Street Antstock reaches all time high.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think so, too.

[J. Mac]

He's had a rough series so far, and he struggled at the end against the Lakers. He's been doing a lot of talking. Okay. You keep mentioning him as face of the league. All right? He's doing a victory lap after knocking out the Lakers, doing these videos. Just running his mouth a little too much. We need to focus back on hoops. My one concern with Anthony Edwards is I think he looks loves being a star. He's got all these IG honeys all after him now. He's starting to do some stuff off the court that's getting some criticism. It's tough when you're a young superstar, Big strapping dude, superstar in the league. Like, it's tough to just handle all that. I don't know that he's handling it well. I do think, though, they're fine in the series against Draymond and company, but if Curry returns for Game 6 and 7, column then Warriors Will get back in the series Without Curry. I don't think they have a chance.

[Colin Cowherd]

Tomorrow's headlines today. Finally, the NBA draft lottery on Monday. It's a big.

[J. Mac]

This is a big week, right? We got the NFL schedule Wednesday.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, Chicago Bulls. Cross your fingers.

[J. Mac]

I looked it up.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Bulls season ticket holder are not.

[J. Mac]

Top five in terms of odds. So kiss it goodbye. Cooper Flag. However, he will land somewhere. The headline will be coupled with data. Charlotte seizes control with Carolina leader Coop. I love me some Cooper Flag going to Carolina. Here he is against Anthony Davis just roasted him. I think there's a good fit Cooper Flag in Carolina. So the best odds are Utah, Washington and Charlotte. Washington is.

[Colin Cowherd]

I take Utah. I think they have a good GM.

[J. Mac]

And they got a good coach and.

[Colin Cowherd]

They have, they have a couple of really good players.

[J. Mac]

We need good players in the east, man. There's nobody good in the east. Especially if Giannis goes west this summer. So I have Cooper Flag going to Charlotte and then I have Charlotte trading LaMelo ball. I do not want Cooper flag with LaMelo. That's not going to work. Brandon Miller's good. The young kid out of Alabama. He flashed last year before the injury. And I think Cooper Flag is going to be a star in this league. There's some pushback on staff about this. I think he walks in and is instantly like a 19 and 10 guy right out of the game.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think he's absolutely 18 and a half seven. 18 and a half.

[J. Mac]

I mean that's a really good year. For what a 19 year old? Like he's going to be a stud. You're looking at the odds here. 76ers at 5 are interesting. They got Maxi.

[Colin Cowherd]

Look at all these teams. I mean, do we really want him to go to the Wizards Hornets?

[J. Mac]

Hey, listen, the Pelicans had their chance. They got Zion. They butchered that badly. You don't get another chance.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know what? I am all for a frozen envelope. I'll be rooting Monday for a frozen envelope. Ping pong ball.

[J. Mac]

You want them going to Chicago? They have a 1.7% chance. Colin, the Bulls.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, I. I'm just telling you. Utah, Chicago Spurs.

[J. Mac]

No, stop. How many, how many times do the spurs need to get superstars?

[Colin Cowherd]

Come on. We don't con guard Wy and Cooper Flag. That's a big time team.

[J. Mac]

I forgot the Pelicans got Anthony Davis back in the day. They do not get any more number ones. They don't treat their players great. I think the Rockets would be spicy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let's Go. Let's go back to this. Shadur Sanders not getting the rookie camp number one snaps.

[J. Mac]

Is there video, by the way?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I would love video. Dude.

[J. Mac]

Not getting number one snaps in rookie minicamp. Stefanski loves him some. Dylan Gabriel, man. That's the word out of Cleveland.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's the word.

[J. Mac]

He drafted a third round. He's fired up in the draft room. Shador gets picked fifth round. You saw the video, man.

[Colin Cowherd]

We, we. Most people believe the owner picked Shador Sanders. That was not a staff decision. Well, I mean, Shador is legendary. That's. That draft room was so cringy. I'm sorry. It was just cringy.

[J. Mac]

It was not a great look.

[Colin Cowherd]

But you probably shouldn't call yourself legendary before you're an employee.

[J. Mac]

I saw some funny memes that, like, it took, what, two days to pick the Pope and Shador Sanders had to wait three days to be drafted. Like, it's just not good stuff. People are coming after him. You got to give the guy a chance. And, you know, one on one with Dylan Gabriel, who's going to win that job? I. I would think it's.

[Colin Cowherd]

Go back to Flacco wins the job by Thanksgiving. Shador as quarterback for the Cleveland Browns.

[J. Mac]

Where's Kenny Pickett in this Sheboygan?

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't think that's the answer. I just don't think that's the answer. That's my take. All right. Ryan Rossillo and Paul Pierce were absolutely great today. J. Mac's tomorrow headlines were, as always, stellar. All right, be safe. We'll see you on Monday in la. It's been the herd. You know, there are moments in life where you get to make a real difference, and this is one of them I want to tell you about Folds of Honor. They provide educational scholarships to the spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. Think about that for a second. Families who've lost everything or are rebuilding their lives, and this organization steps in to make sure their kids can still go to college or a spouse can get the training they need to keep moving forward. Since 2007, they've awarded nearly 62,000 scholarships. Last year, about 7,000 qualified students didn't receive funding. In this year, that number is expected to grow to nearly 10,000. So if you've been looking for a way to give back, to do something really meaningful, this is it. Go to foldsofhonor.org give what you can. It all matters. Honor their sacrifice by educating their legacy. Summer is almost here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web Bank. In order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice. Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet PayCor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a better leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycore. Com leaders. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.