Hour 3 - Rachel Nichols stops by The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: Hour 3 - Rachel Nichols stops by The Herd
Release Date: June 16, 2025

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Introduction

In the June 16, 2025 episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, host Colin Cowherd welcomes renowned sports journalist Rachel Nichols to discuss a myriad of current sports topics. The conversation delves into the WNBA's evolving landscape, controversial NBA Finals officiating, significant NBA trades, NFL coaching dynamics, and notable MLB transactions. The episode offers insightful analysis, spirited debates, and expert opinions, enriched with memorable quotes and perspectives from both hosts and guests.

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WNBA: The Impact of Caitlin Clark

Time Stamp: [03:04] - [05:45]

Rachel Nichols initiates the discussion by examining the WNBA's current state, emphasizing the monumental influence of star player Caitlin Clark. She notes how Clark's absence led to a 50% drop in ratings, underscoring her pivotal role in the league's popularity.

"If you needed to sort of have it affirmed to you that it is just her, that the singularity of her is what we are talking about."
— Rachel Nichols [04:42]

Nichols highlights Rebecca Lobo's perspective, stating, "She's been around the WNBA for almost three decades. She said, I have never ever seen anything like this." This underscores the unprecedented nature of Clark's impact on the league.

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NBA Finals Officiating Controversies

Time Stamp: [05:45] - [27:33]

The conversation shifts to the NBA Finals, where officiating decisions, particularly those by referee Scott Foster, have stirred significant debate. Rachel criticized Foster's call, suggesting that certain plays did not merit fouls despite appearances.

"If you ended up officiating Super Bowls and World Cups over and over, they're not doing it because of some league-wide conspiracy."
— Rachel Nichols [05:45]

Jason McIntyre elaborates on the inconsistency in officiating, comparing recent events to historic NBA moments involving legends like Michael Jordan. The discussion touches on how high-stakes games magnify scrutiny on referees.

"Scott Foster is one of the most respected referees in the league... They put him on these very, very key games."
— Jason McIntyre [06:59]

Rachel and Jason debate the league's defensive stance on officiating, contemplating whether public outrage is justified or amplified by the prominence of the games and the players involved.

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NBA Trade Deadlines and Team Strategies

Time Stamp: [07:47] - [12:10]

Rachel shifts focus to recent NBA trades, particularly analyzing the Orlando Magic's strategic moves. She discusses the potential long-term impacts of trades involving players like Desmond Bain and whether these moves mirror successful past trades such as Pascal Siakam's.

"Is it going to end up being a Pascal Siakam like trade... Or is it going to be more like Mikhail Bridges?"
— Rachel Nichols [08:26]

Jason McIntyre weighs in on the implications of these trades, questioning whether teams have overpaid or made shrewd acquisitions that could define their postseason success.

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NFL Coaching Changes and Justin Fields' Development

Time Stamp: [11:06] - [27:33]

The discussion transitions to the NFL, focusing on coaching candidacies and the development of quarterback Justin Fields. Potential coaching candidates like Taylor Jenkins and Mike Brown are analyzed in terms of their fit and potential impact on Fields' performance.

"The leading candidates right now are Taylor Jenkins... and Mike Brown."
— Jason McIntyre [11:06]

Rachel praises Justin Fields' work ethic and adaptability under defensive-focused coaching staffs, arguing that his perseverance is paying dividends despite the challenges.

"The biggest takeaway, I would say, is that this guy is just a workaholic... He's trying to do things the right way."
— Rachel Nichols [19:41]

The hosts debate the future trajectory of Fields' career, contemplating how different coaching environments might unlock his full potential.

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WNBA Star Caitlin Clark's Resurgence

Time Stamp: [35:02] - [43:06]

Rachel returns to the WNBA to discuss Caitlin Clark's exceptional performance following her return from an injury. Her electrifying play has rekindled interest in the league, drawing comparisons to iconic sports moments.

"Caitlin is going to bring you... She's got the Saturday Night Live effect."
— Rachel Nichols [22:30]

The conversation explores how Clark's dynamic presence on the court has revitalized viewership and engaged fans who previously tuned out during her absence.

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Major League Baseball Trades and Shohei Ohtani's Role

Time Stamp: [35:02] - [43:06]

Mark DeRosa joins the discussion to provide insights into recent MLB trades, notably Rafael Devers' move from the Boston Red Sox to the San Francisco Giants. He assesses the strategic motivations behind the trade and its implications for both teams.

"This guy's an absolute killer. Won three world titles out there and wants to bring that back to San Francisco."
— Mark DeRosa [36:31]

The hosts delve into Shohei Ohtani's dual role as a pitcher and hitter for the Los Angeles Dodgers, debating whether the team will fully utilize his pitching talents to enhance their postseason prospects.

"He was coming over there as a two-way player... they need him."
— Mark DeRosa [37:41]

Rachel and Mark analyze the Dodgers' strategy in managing pitching rotations and leveraging Ohtani's versatile skill set to secure a competitive edge in the playoffs.

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, listeners are treated to a comprehensive analysis of current sports narratives across the WNBA, NBA, NFL, and MLB. Rachel Nichols and Mark DeRosa provide expert insights into player impacts, officiating controversies, strategic trades, and coaching dynamics, offering a nuanced understanding of the evolving sports landscape. The episode underscores the intricate interplay between player performance, team strategies, and league governance, making it a valuable listen for sports enthusiasts seeking in-depth commentary and diverse perspectives.

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Notable Quotes

• "If you needed to sort of have it affirmed to you that it is just her, that the singularity of her is what we are talking about."
  — Rachel Nichols [04:42]

• "Scott Foster is one of the most respected referees in the league... They put him on these very, very key games."
  — Jason McIntyre [06:59]

• "The biggest takeaway, I would say, is that this guy is just a workaholic... He's trying to do things the right way."
  — Rachel Nichols [19:41]

• "This is a typical playoff. No call at the end of an NBA Finals game."
  — Unknown Speaker [05:45]

• "Caitlin is going to bring you... She's got the Saturday Night Live effect."
  — Rachel Nichols [22:30]

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a testament to the dynamic nature of sports, where individual excellence and strategic decisions shape the narratives that captivate fans worldwide. Rachel Nichols' expertise, complemented by Mark DeRosa's MLB insights, provides a well-rounded exploration of today's pivotal sports issues, making The Herd a must-listen for those seeking informed and engaging sports commentary.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Unknown Speaker]

Now, let's get this party started.

[Rachel Nichols]

You're listening to FOX Sports Radio. And with that, Rachel Nichols is now joining us live on an unbelievable performance. And I said this earlier, it's not anti Beyonce to say Taylor Swift tour changed the economy in la, which it did. It's not anti Beyonce. Do you think the WNBA is actually kind of coming to terms with, okay, this is really, this is Tiger, this is mj and that, listen, I understand when she came in, nobody could predict this. Nobody could predict this. Do you think the league, though, has kind of come to terms with let's ride the wave here? This is all time stuff?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I think this absence and then how she came back really sort of solidified all of that. Because when she came into the league, obviously interest went way up and some of the finances went way up. But there was some argument that it was a little bit of, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats. And the popularity of the league had been increasing anyway. And Angel Reese was also a big star coming into the league. But here we go with Caitlin Clark singularly being missing for the time she was gone and ratings tanking 50% in some cases. And then also she comes back and reminds everyone how spectacular she is and everybody's talking about the wnba. So if you needed to sort of have it affirmed to you that it is just her, that the singularity of her is what we are talking about. And her star power, you got it with this absence. And then the way she came back, I thought it was fascinating the way other people who have been around the league for a long time reacted to it. Rebecca Lobo, for example, she's been around the WWNBA for almost three decades. She said, I have never ever seen anything like this.

[Rachel Nichols]

No, I said earlier, I was a kid, I remember in 77, Reggie Jackson getting three home runs off three pitchers on three pitches. And I can remember as a kid being like, I mean, the announcers were going crazy. And there are these moments like when Michael Jordan changes hands and you're like, oh, I just saw something live. I've never seen that. When she had two 33 footers, I'm sitting there going, I'm laughing. I'm like, okay, this is the greatest 38 second stretch in the history of this 25 year plus league. Okay, so I, I defended Scott Foster. I think he, I think you could have called the foul, but I brought back the Brian Russell, mj, no call. And I said, folks, because Russell leaned into it and Michael touched him, it looked like he shoved him.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yep.

[Rachel Nichols]

I looked at this and I thought, we're not acknowledging that Naismith tripped over SGA's feet. So it looks egregious. It's really not. I mean, SGA, six' six, a buck £95. He's not Charles Barkley. Powerful. Do you think the league got defensive? How do you think this is landing for the league?

[Unknown Speaker]

Look, this is a typical playoff. No call at the end of an NBA Finals game. As you point out, we've seen it as far back as Michael Jordan. There have been other examples. I think what roiled a lot of people was there were a bunch of calls before that. And so it felt like, well, if you're calling everything, you should be calling this too. And that's what I thought was missing from this game. Officiating wise, it just didn't have that consistency. It didn't have any officiating flow. They never felt like the crew kind of quite had control over the game. However, Scott Foster is one of the most respected referees in the league. I understand that fans sort of have their own opinions on him, but. But you can tell how the NBA feels about him by the fact that they put him on these very, very key games. And in fact, you would expect him. It's not certain yet. They haven't announced it. If there is a game 7, it is most likely Scott Foster will be on that game. Which makes it even more kind of intriguing to hear Rick Carlisle defending Scott Foster. To all of the Pacers fans in his press conference, basically being like, it was a great. He called a great game. Scott Foster is terrific. You know, he went on and on and, you know, I think part of it is because he feels that way. Rick's been around the league a long time and also he knows that maybe by game seven, Scott Foster will be back.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I, you know, I said this earlier. If you end up officiating Super Bowls and World Cups over and over, they're not doing it because of some league wide conspiracy. They view you as able to handle the situation. I love what Orlando did in the trade and the reason I love it because I think, I honestly think we still have a ways to go for the trade deadline. I mean. Right. So why do they do it now? Because I think they Watch the Indiana Pacers and they go, we can do that. And they've got three guys they love, but they need another. They didn't shoot the ball worth a darn all year. This is their hole. But I think there's a little Pacer's influence here, Rachel, that they're young and they're like, well, why can't we do that?

[Unknown Speaker]

Absolutely. Absolutely I agree with you. And I think also, look, the Jayson Tatum injury means that the big bad Celtics, who seem like such a mature, complete veteran team, aren't going to be around. It feels like the conference is going to be wide open next year because if you look at the other team that did so well during this season, the Cleveland Cavaliers, well, they were knocked out much earlier than expected. So it definitely feels like the east could be anyone's game. And there is an Orlando component of why not us. To me, this trade is going to be very interesting. Is it going to end up being a Pascal Siakam like trade where people at the time will say, oh man, they overpaid. But then obviously this guy turned out to be the Eastern Conference finals MVP and has been key to this finals run? Or is it going to be more like Mikhail Bridges who at least so far hasn't quite justified the amount of haul that the Knicks had to give up? And we'll just see. Desmond Bain is a terrific fit for this team and as you pointed out, they're terrible three point shooting team. He does that very well. He complements a lot of the other things that their players do. He's going to bring a maturity to the team. It's a great, great trade in terms of a great fit. We'll just have to see. Did they overpay a little bit Mikal Bridges style, or was this absolutely the thing that solidifies them and puts them over the edge? Pascal Siakam style? We'll have to find out.

[Rachel Nichols]

For the record, some people said they gave up too much in the trade, but I mean it wasn't it. Five first rounders for Mikhail Bridges. Rudy Gobert gave up not nine picks. I have no problem with the Hall. I mean, obviously Memphis is now rebuilding. They should. They can't compete at the highest levels in the West. But it did make me think about kd and I thought, well, Desmond Bain is in his prime, 20 a night, excellent three point shooter. What do you think the market for KD is now? You know this league, it's comps. So if you're getting four first rounders at what is the market for kd.

[Unknown Speaker]

It really depends on who wants to pay him because he's due for an extension, right? So he's given them sort of a list of preferred teams, reportedly. I think that Phoenix will take that into consideration. But if they can get a better deal somewhere else, I think they'll take it because they are so in need of assets. That being said, could someone offer them a better deal? If Katie isn't going to resign with them, if he's not going to sign that extension, how much do you want to give up? So that's really the fulcrum that this is depending on. Is, is it a place that KD will sign an extension and therefore justify a higher offer? If it's not, then it's going to be hard for them to gin up a market because now that it's out there, which teams he's interested in, those teams feel like, great, we've got an advantage here. We don't have to give up as much. So. So there's just a lot of politics that go on with a trade like this.

[Rachel Nichols]

Finally, the Knicks, as predicted firing cautionary tale that you better have a backup plan. I mean, I'm hearing top college basketball coaches have retired Jay Wright or not interested Calipari. The top teams in the NBA, according to a story I read this morning, used profanity and hung up on the Knicks. Who's the leading candidate? I mean, they don't have to hurry. They're not in a rush. Who's the leading candidate for the next job?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, officially, the leading candidates right now are Taylor Jenkins, who I think will be the first person interviewed, and Mike Brown, who will also get an interview. There's a lingering question about Jason Kidd because even though Dallas was one of those teams that said, absolutely not, we do not give you permission to talk about him. There's a question, especially post Luca trade and also how much money New York can offer Jason to see if there is a point he will go to the Mavericks and say, I'm out. I don't want to be here anymore. And if that happens, it's going to make it hard to work with him in Dallas going forward. And they would maybe consider granting permission. They would maybe consider making some sort of trade the way Jason Kidd was traded, frankly, from Milwaukee to Brooklyn a long time ago. So that's sort of the nebulous cloud that's hanging over all of this. No one's really heard from Jason about what he might want to do, but as of now, Dallas has said no way. And there's no movement on that as of now. So that leaves Taylor Jenkins, Mike Brown as the two leading candidates.

[Rachel Nichols]

Rachel Nichols, as always on a Monday. It's great seeing you, Rachel.

[Jason McIntyre]

Thank you.

[Unknown Speaker]

Great to see you.

[Rachel Nichols]

All right, Indy tonight in Game 5, which has been a stellar series. The games have been intense and we, we, we sort of said coming into the series, the all time great defensive team, plus the NBA leading scorer and the fastest tempo in the league. Those are classic matchups and three out of four games have been absolutely great. Live in Chicago, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Rachel Nichols]

Shohei Ohtani returning to the mound today. We'll talk about that in a bit. First though, J. Mac with the news no no no.

[Unknown Speaker]

Heard on the news.

This is the Herdline news.

I'm sorry. The Bill Belichick era has officially begun in North Carolina and Mike Lombardi, the GM of the Tar Heels, has chimed in, dismissing all the claims about Belichick and Jordan Hudson, saying it's just a lot of noise. Adding for us to be distracted by someone that has no bearing, that has no relevance whatsoever. That is a complete falsehood. It's comical. Now you and I both work with Lombardi. He is very football focused, shall we say. And I do believe that he's right here. It is kind of noise it makes for good tabloid fodder and segments on TV and radio. But in reality, I don't think it has any impact on the North Carolina program.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, and also there was a newness. You heard about Jordan Hudson's real estate and you saw a picture of her on the field. So it was new. It was introduced to us for the first time. And new stuff gets more attention. Have you noticed over the last two weeks, there's no real stories. The newness has worn off. So I also think, and this is a real thing, June, July and August, the media is looking for stories and a lot of stuff that. That you'll see media feuds, you'll see stories like Jordan Hudson. They don't get a click during the football season. And so I think I've said this before. If they both consenting adults are physically enjoy this and they both feel like professionally there's something that, you know, they're aspiring to or getting from the other. Professionally, I just. I don't want to Jud. It's none of my business. It could be uncomfortable to me. But you know what? Teach their own. I'm not bothered by it. I think people tend to. This is one of those things where it's not conventional. It's not conventional. And so when stuff is not. When it's unconventional in the world we live in, it gets discussed. But in the end, I heard all this. Oh, Carolina's very uncomfortable. How do we know that? What did they do? Did they suspend somebody? She has nothing to do with football. She was on the whiteboard drawing up plays. Let's talk about it. But I just. We haven't heard a story in two, three weeks.

[Jason McIntyre]

Why?

[Rachel Nichols]

Because the newness is worn off.

[Unknown Speaker]

The only way this becomes a deal, Colin, I think, is if they go out against TCU in the opener and lose like 35, 7. Then it's like, oh, Belichick lost his fastball. He's distracted. But other than a big loss early. And the Clemson, when we're not going to count, they're going to. They're going to lose that one badly. I think they're going to be fine. And I like North Carolina a lot this year. Let's go to the NFL and my jets where Justin Fields is the cue qb. And Colin, he's saying all the right things at the podium. No drama, Unlike the last guy. New OC Tanner Angstrand, that's a new name, had high praise for Justin Fields.

[Rachel Nichols]

The biggest takeaway, I would say, is that this guy is just a workaholic, you know, he comes in early, he's here late and he's trying to digest everything and download all the information and, and do things the right way. He's trying to do things that we're asking and I think he's just, he's really put the next foot forward every, every day. Just trying to stack days and it's been really good. Let's defend Justin Fields for this. His first coach was a defensive coach. His second coach was a defensive coach. His third coach is a defensive coach. It's not exactly ideal for a quarterback we thought needed the right landing spot. But if you go back, if you go back to the Pittsburgh numbers and you extrapolate them over a season, his fan base, I'm not a huge fan, but I think he's a good kid, big arm, active. I don't think he sees the field well. But we have to be fair here is that Darnold and Baker, a lot of other guys get second and third opportunities. So I don't have a problem with it. And I think it was better than re signing Aaron or staying with Aaron. But if you do look at the Pittsburgh numbers, considering the O line was poor, it is interesting. It's an interesting season for him. There is something there.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. I mean, if Justin Fields gets drafted by McVay or Andy Reid, is he a different guy? I have no idea. But you could counter with. Well, they would never draft Fields because of his limitations. That's not a McVeigh guy. I mean, you could do this all day, which is so fun. Maybe not for Justin Fields, but good point. Final story. Colin is. Yes. Let's go back to Caitlin Clark, who went off on Saturday. 32, 9 and 8, took down the Liberty. You were previously undefeated. Well, you know who chimed in on social media? LeBron James sending out the CC effect. Welcome back. You were missed. He's not wrong, Colin. This was a sense from a lot of people I talked to, sports fans or otherwise. Yo, did you see Caitlin Park? I mean, when she hit those three threes in like 40 seconds?

[Rachel Nichols]

It's crazy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, wow. I mean, let me ask you this. So Caleb Clark was out for like two and a half weeks. How many minutes of WNBA action did you watch when Caitlin Clark was out?

[Rachel Nichols]

I didn't.

[Unknown Speaker]

Zero. Yeah, I was at like maybe one minute. Just checking again. Kaitlyn Clark comes back. I'm watching as much of the full game as I can. And I'm assuming it's the same for you.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's. I, I use the Saturday night Live reference. When Tom Hanks was in his prime and he was on Saturday Night Live or Alec Baldwin in his prime, I would watch Saturday Live. Most of the time I just wait for clips and there is that effect where, you know, like if it was the Office, I would watch every week. Or the Sopranos or Mind Hunter. There's stuff I watch. Oh, I love that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wait a minute, you just put mine under. It was Sopranos and top.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes, yes. But I will say this. There are other things that are very much host driven or specific person driven. And I think the W. I would say baseball's like that for me. If the Dodgers are playing, the Yankees are playing. Like, I, I am engrossed in baseball in the post season. If you give me the right. If you give me, you know, a couple years ago, Rockies, Rays, I'm not as engaged on that, but if you gave me last year, how much baseball did we talk in the National League playoffs? Mets, Padres, Dodgers, the games were fantastic.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

So baseball has that effect. Football, we all watch. It's once a week. Same with college football, World Cup, Olympics. But I think Caitlin's got the, she's got the Saturday Night Live effect. Is she will. She will bring you. If the band and host is good, it's a different show.

[Unknown Speaker]

He's got a game Tuesday this week and Thursday. I already checked the schedule. It's like, okay, I'll, I'll put in the calendar. Maybe we'll chime in on those next Gait park game.

[Jason McIntyre]

J. Mac with the news.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd line news.

[Rachel Nichols]

So I know it's not a popular opinion, but I do want to quickly revisit something we talked about earlier, is that if Scott Foster would have called a foul, I would have been okay with it. But I thought the outrage was a bit misguided because like the Brian Russell MJ move, people are not acknowledging that the Indiana Pacer defender tripped over SGA's feet. So a nudge looked like a shove. Remember this, Russell totally bites on the first move by Jordan. So therefore the shove looks like he got pushed by an offensive lineman. And that is not a massive push. Again, if you would have called that on Jordan, I would have been okay with it. But it didn't rise, in my opinion, to national outrage. Nobody ever acknowledged that Russell bit on the move, went all in, was leaning over Kevin Durant. LeBron, this is another moment where nobody called a foul. People were worked up. So in all three, no foul, no foul, no foul. LeBron MJ and SGA. And my feeling is some are in big markets, Jordan, some were in small markets. SGA referees swallow the whistle. First round a little, second round, conference finals a lot. And finals especially at the end of games. MJ, Russell, SGA, Naismith, Kevin Durant, LeBron officials do not want to end the game at the free throw line. So in all three, the perception of the foul, nobody's offering any context. The defender trips. So that looks like a shove. And SGA is 6. 6. A buck 95. I'm not sure he could shove me to the ground. Here's Rick Carlisle, Pacers coach, who didn't get the friendly whistle after far as officiating. I think it's awful what some of the things I've seen about the officiating and Scott Foster in particular. I've known Scott Foster for 30 years. He's a great official. He's done a great job in these playoffs. We've had him a lot of times. And the ridiculous scrutiny that's being thrown out there is. Is terrible and unfair and unjust and stupid. Remember J. Mac? It was Ram Saints NFC championship. Remember that? And people freaked out because it was the no, that's right, the no call. PI. And it was. Again, it was no call. Now, I thought that was a missed call. I did, but I thought the league overreacted to it. And the following year, didn't they go out and go, okay, pass interference is reviewable. I mean, everybody overreacts to these moments. It just heightened because if that game would have been Carolina and Tampa, you're not changing rules. But I think when you get the NBA Finals and you get stars in the NFL, in the NBA, we overreact. Remember in baseball years ago, there was like an All Star game tied or something. And there would. Bud Selig was like, okay, we cannot have a baseball All Star game that ties. Yes, we can. We all have lives. We could absolutely have an All Star Game. And so he wanted the All Star Game to matter more. It's an All Star Game. Let's not. Let's not go crazy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Let me ask you this, Colin. We like consistency, right? Remember, in the regular season, we're not calling. We're calling everything, right? And in the playoffs, we're not calling anything. So then you now pivot back. SGA shoots 10 free throws. J Dub shoots 11. Like we hadn't seen that all series, and now we see it. When OKC sees yourself, ask yourself that, okay?

[Rachel Nichols]

But take a deep breath. So SGA wasn't getting to the line. Why did he get the line in the biggest game of the year for OKC, I'm going to say after Game 3, when he only got to the line a small number of times, the coaching staff of OKC guest guys, here are the numbers. He sga, you got to be more aggressive. Some of this is the OKC coaching staff saying, guys, we're nine and two when he gets to the line eight times. But sga, you can't be passive. You have to shoot more. So the coaching staff is as. I mean, I thought SGA was way more aggressive in game four. Well, you saw it in the totals, so I think that is led by coaching. We saw this with Ann Edwards. He would have halves where he wouldn't shoot a lot. We've seen it with Halliburton. He's had halves where he's not aggressive enough. Modern players are not Michael and Kobe, so they're very collaborative. Jayson Tatum, you've had to basically force him to shoot more. So the modern NBA player is not as selfish as back in the 70s and 80s where MJ's like, I don't care about the triangle offense. I'm getting 38, right? So I think SGA, Jayson Tatum and Edwards, Halliburton. In this playoffs alone, we have seen star players who have games where they're not as aggressive and don't shoot. And the coaching staff, the following games, they come in and shoot more.

[Unknown Speaker]

So, yeah, at the same time, SGA was gassed at the end of game three.

[Rachel Nichols]

Remember, he had.

[Unknown Speaker]

Because he had to run the offense, and they attacked him. J Dub brought the ball up almost every single time. I think the stat was that was the most times he brought the ball up the court this season. And SGA was a little more rested, so he was able to have 15 in the fourth. I think he had like seven free throws in the fourth quarter. Again, I don't love that. I'm not blaming Scott Foster. SGA was brilliant down the stretch. Indiana wasted it. They were up four with three minutes left. Colin, you got to lock that up at home. They didn't.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yep. So Red Sox fans are furious. Dodger fans are excited. So are Giant fans. We'll explain all three. Mark DeRosa, Major League Baseball Network, joins us next. Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day, 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to and that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips, blaming me. Well, you know what? It's called Over Promise. You should be good at it. Cause you've been over promising women for years. Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised. Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promise. And also uncensored, by the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Over Promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us. Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Rachel Nichols]

Well, there's a lot going on in baseball. First of all, Rafael Des, a very best hitter for the Boston Red Sox, got traded yesterday and Red Sox fans are a little sensitive anyway because of the Mookie Betts deal where there was a sense they got fleeced by the Dodgers. And so, you know, they're, they're not in a great mood when this happened yesterday. So I want to bring on. He played 16 seasons in baseball, Mark DeRosa, who does a fantastic job for the MLB Network. All right, let's. Let's approach this first. Approach this first. First, when you heard about the move, did you immediately think, wow, the Red Sox got fleeced? Was that your immediate reaction?

[Mark DeRosa]

No, my immediate reaction, Colin, was, wow, the meeting in Kansas City where John Henry and the owners flew there to speak with him about potentially playing first base, obviously they didn't get the answer they were looking for. And I think he turned to his general manager and said, if you can work out a deal to get him out of here, I think it would make sense for both parties. Is my initial take, because you can't replace this bat. This is a top five bat in a game. I know the Red Sox are going to sell it that they're still in this. They still got a chance to win the AL East. They still got a chance to go to the wild card. But you take one of the most prolific bats in the game out of your lineup, you take a step back, at least short term.

[Rachel Nichols]

What do you think Des does to the San Francisco Giants, who are right behind the Dodgers?

[Mark DeRosa]

Yeah, Colin, I was a teammate of buster Posey in 2010 and 2011. This guy's an absolute killer. Won three world titles out there and wants to bring that back to San Francisco. So what do I think? I think he gets a new lease on life. I think he maybe plays a little third base until Matt Chapman comes back from injury. I think he assumes the DH role there. I don't, I don't foresee him playing first base, but this is a move Buster had to make. He's been trying to go out, or they've been trying to go out and bring in that big ticket free agent bat, they haven't been able to pull it off. They went out and overpaid a little bit for Willie Adamus to play shortstop. They got Matt Chapman on a long term deal. Now they stick that monster left handed bat in the middle of those two. And those are your three pillars moving forward on the offensive side.

[Rachel Nichols]

Listen, to get Ohtani, it was beyond money. He wanted to still pitch. Do you think privately, if you asked Dave Roberts and the Dodgers about Ohtani pitching privately, they would say, yeah, we'd rather we'd rather he just bats or are they all in on this in Los Angeles?

[Mark DeRosa]

I think Ohtani is the one guy in the game, he drives so much revenue to the Dodgers and Major League Baseball as a whole that he calls the shots. I really believe that. And when he came over there, he was coming over there as a two way player. I get it from the outside observers that what he can do offensively, only Aaron Judge can match. But if he wants to pitch and that was kind of part of the deal of him coming over there, then you got to let him entertain this. And they certainly need him. They've had umpteen guys go on the IL this year. They're searching to put a starting rotation together. If they can grab an opener here, one or two innings out of him tonight and then kind of build towards something in the postseason. I think you got to see what you got.

[Rachel Nichols]

You played every position in baseball except I think pitcher and catcher and maybe center field. So I know pitching isn't something that, you know, you did, but you're also as well connected as anybody in this sport. Could you try to at least explain why the Dodgers for I think the third or fourth year in, third or fourth year in a row have so many pitching injuries? What is it?

[Mark DeRosa]

Yeah, yeah, I think, Colin. They chase stuff. They can make some deals that other teams can't. The Blake Snells of the world, you know, he has a. He has a history of being injured. Tyler Glass now a history of being injured. So a lot of teams shy away from giving these guys long term deals. The Dodgers are willing with their depth, they're young guys coming up. The way they attack it from an analytic side, they know they can piece together the regular season. And if they get all these guys firing on this on all cylinders come October, that they can run the table. So their money allows them to do things a little bit differently. The way they've used the contracts in deferring payments has allowed them to be a little smarter than the rest. And I just think they play for October. They know they can withstand a 162. And if they get in and they have Ohtani, Snell Glass now the Dustin Mays on down the line, they know.

[Rachel Nichols]

They can run it in the postseason. Baseball is managed differently. You have starters coming out of the bullpen. It, you know, some of the stuff, the analytics is great for volume and regular season may not work as well in the postseason. So when you look at Aaron Judge putting up Babe Ruth numbers, just insane numbers over the course of a Regular season, you may not pitch around him as much, but when you look at this Yankee lineup, do you. Is it a worry that what he is doing in the regular season, people are going to pitch around him in the postseason, everything will be much more situational than it is on a Tuesday or a Wednesday night when Aaron Judge comes to the plate.

[Mark DeRosa]

Yeah, you can make that argument. I mean, certainly the Paul Goldschmidt's and the Cody Bellingers and Stanton potentially coming back in the near future have to step up. Stanton's been able to do it in October repeatedly, so I would expect him to do the same. Every team I ever went on that went to the postseason, there are meetings circling guys that you can't let beat you. Obviously Aaron Judge is one of those guys and will be pitched accordingly. But at some point, I still think he makes his mark on the postseason. I think in game five he was just starting to get rolling in the last World Series. If they're able to escape game five and get back on that, on that plane to L. A, I think you have a totally different series now. The Dodgers were able to win that ballgame and win the world Championship. So we'll never know. But I still think Aaron makes his mark. But the Stantons of the world, the Bellingers and the Goldschmidtz will have to step up.

[Rachel Nichols]

And finally, Mark DeRosa from the MLB Network. And I've said this before, of all the league run networks or league owned Major League Baseball network, to me and the hockey network are by far and away the best. And Mark is one of the lead guys there. So I want to end with this. Baseball has had a bit of a renaissance. I started talking about this a couple years ago. I said, listen, the games are faster. If you only have an hour to give a baseball game on a Tuesday night, you can get through three innings if the pitching's good. I think that is one of the reasons for the rise in ratings. But you watch a lot of games and every night there are probably nuances to the ratings increases. And I want to end with this. If you add two or three, I find the game more consumable today than five years ago. As somebody that played baseball for 16 years, do you.

[Mark DeRosa]

I do, Colin. As a player, I never viewed it as an entertainment pro, you know, product. I was grinding. I wasn't a good enough player to not worry about trying to how I added value to that given night. I looked at it as a job. Working on it on this side of the camera. I totally get it. I think the pitch, pitch clock has been huge. I mean you're in your car in two and a half, 2:45. I think the challenge system could potentially come in next year. I think that's going to add another kind of dynamic for the fans to get involved. So yeah, I think the game's exploding. The WBC I think has also brought another element into the game. Kind of like the four nations with hockey and that's only going to grow the game. So yes, the consuming of the product is way better now.

[Rachel Nichols]

Mark DeRosa, thank you so much. Major League Baseball Network. He played every position but pitcher, catcher and yep, center fielder. Terrific job. And folks, I do appreciate you. We had a little delay there, but Mark, so good. I wanted to, I wanted to go with it and run with it and I appreciate it. Okay, JMAC tonight. I don't know what I'm going to guess the line.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, I don't know two lines. I want you to guess. The USA Soccer against Saudi Arabia is going to surprise you. And then tonight's okc. Which one do you want to start with?

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, I think we're favored by. I think we're favored soccer. Let me guess, we're favored by three goals.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, it's minus 140, which is a lot less than three goals and a lot less than anybody thought. I looked at it thinking, okay, we're going to beat him comfortably. I guess Saudi Arabia looked okay, but it's not a lock. Colin, that the US is going to smash Saudi Arabia. I thought I was feeling good but seeing that line I was like, oh, hello. Now on to the NBA tonight. What do you got?

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, OKC is favored. Oh, you know, the zigzag. I think Indiana is going to play great. So I'm going to say OKC minus. No, it's. They're so good at home. Okay. I think a lot of people feel the series is over. So I think the public is going to go heavy on OKC tonight. So I would bet Indiana tonight because I think the public is going to drive up the number. Is it -7 okc -9 and a half okc. Oh, I'm taking Indiana.

[Unknown Speaker]

So there's two thought processes here. Number one is Indiana is just devastated. How do you bounce back after blowing a four point lead with three minutes left? And then okc. Remember what they did at home? They led for, I think it was 46 of 48 minutes or no, he was like they only trail for two minutes in the first two games at home. They're a Juggernaut at home. Colin, I don't know if this is close tonight. I'm not touching it. I just feel upset at the Pacers, man.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, I, I don't. This was not Greg Norman at the Masters. I don't feel Indiana blew it. I thought Oklahoma City's last three minutes, they played impenetrable defense. Indiana could not get good shots. Block steals, an airball. I thought Oklahoma City did what Oklahoma City does and that. You can't play that kind of defense against the best teams in a seven game series. But I thought in game two, I thought Oklahoma City's defense was ratcheted up. Why? Because the season was on the line. They lost game one and I thought in this game, the season's on the line. If you lose this and you're down 3:1, 97% of the time, you lose a series. So the two times Oklahoma City has had their back and their season on the line, they've been impenetrable defensively. And you can talk about the Scott Foster call. We could argue about that all day. I thought their defense at the end of the game was insane. I thought it was insane.

[Unknown Speaker]

All right, I guess I'll give it to you. Halliburton had a good game and then I think he had a three pointer partially blocked by Chet. Was it Chad or that? That's the airball you're talking about. And you know, it's just, it stinks for the Pacers. It's, it really does. It stinks.

[Rachel Nichols]

It sounds like you're rooting for the Pacers. Why?

[Unknown Speaker]

Sounds like.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes, I'm, I meant their style of play.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm anti okc. I, I, you know, you, what did you say last week? You like to be right. I've been saying OKC's fraudulent all season and you know, I'll look like a buffoon. If they win the championship, we're going to have potentially.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, either team that wins it. We're going to have. Is it seven years in a row that we've had seven different champions? Isn't that crazy? That's very much 1970s basketball, which I grew up on and loved.

[Unknown Speaker]

In a weird way though, Colin, Indiana has been a little surprising in this series. No, they've taken all this. Okay. Season, all time great. You can't say that when they're struggling with the Indiana Pacers, who were, I believe, plus 5,000 to win the title before the season. You can't say they're an all time great. They're not.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, I, I think what this is fair to say is is Boston was the last stacked roster. Everybody going forward is going to look more like okc where you can have a star and then really, really high end players. Jalen Williams, Chet Holmgren around you. But there are no more heels, there are no more Katie, Stephen Clave, that's done. You're not because of the new aprons and the cba, it's over. So what you're going to get is Orlando could be really good. Where you have bank hero is an A plus player. He's all NBA. Wagner and the kid from Memphis are both. They're both like second team, third team, all NBA. And then Jalen Suggs is a heck of a good starter. That's the new NBA. And by the way, that is potentially if Miles Turner left, that is a team good enough getting to the Finals. I think what Orlando is what Oklahoma. Look at Oklahoma City. One great player. Not LeBron great, but a great player. Jalen Williams and Holmgren, especially Jalen Williams, excellent player. Holmgren's a little hit and miss, still young. And then there's some really good rotational players. It's just like Denver. Jokic is an all timer. Gordon and Murray are really good players, but they haven't made an all star team. That's the new NBA.

[Unknown Speaker]

The days of Kevin Durant joining forces with Bradley, Beal and Devin, that's not happening. By the way, in the last 20 minutes it's come out a report Kevin Durant has no interest in playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves. According to, you know, Kevin Durant's agent's mouthpiece, who's a good reporter, but he doesn't want to go play with Anthony Edwards. I'm just telling you, this Kevin Durant thing, Colin, it's going to blow up in his face. They're going to ship him to Siberia and he's going to be ticked off. It's. It's going to be. Not quite Patrick Ewing. It's a Sonic, but it's going to be ugly.

[Rachel Nichols]

It's a winter league. Part of playing in Miami and Houston in a winter league is the weather. And as you get to the end of your career, you're probably looking at state tax and saving 4 million. I mean, I'm sorry, but these guys, I would. I don't blame them. I don't blame them. All right, JMac, good stuff today. Mark DeRosa, Rachel Nichols, Matt Hasselbeck, Nick and the fellas around the corner looking.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

This is an Iheart podcast.