Rick Bucher (3:36)

Now let's get this party started.

Colin Cowherd (3:38)

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. By the way, Caitlin Clark's injury has sent WNBA ticket prices for her games tumbling. The Indiana Fever Chicago sky game, which right now maybe is the best rivalry in the league, tickets are down 7. 71%. So the animosity for her. Rick, Rick Bucher's joining us. What do you make? I mean, I read some numbers yesterday on the air on Memorial Day. It is unbelievable. Like she's worth almost half the merchandise of the league. What do you make of it?

Rick Bucher (4:13)

It's a combination of things. One, I think WNBA was an untapped market, certainly, and the value of live programming when it comes to TV and everything else has just shot through the roof, particularly when it comes to sports. So I think she stepped in at the right, at the right time to take advantage of all of that. I think of Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods. I think over his first five, six years he raised the value of purses like 140% for golfers. So he certainly brought a lot of money into the sport. Magic and Bird transformed the NBA. I don't have numbers on that, but obviously when you go from tape delay to actual live programming, that's going to have an influence. But I think really is it's really a matter of right place, right time, along with the nexus of women's sports coming to the forefront in terms of the general interest in sports and women's sports. So I think she just, she tapped into a lot of things that are happening at this time.

Colin Cowherd (5:19)

So I said this, we were talking about this before you came on. And by the way, Allen Iverson, J Mac is another guy I can throw in. But I counted 15 players all time that played differently that were dynamic. Starting with the first one I saw was Dr. J. And then there's Nick and then there's David Thompson and Michael and Magic and Burden, Shaq and Kobe and Derrick Rose and Drexler and there's about 15 guys that literally Charles Barkley that literally played different. Like they were more vertical, they were more dynamic. Zion could have been if not for injuries and weight. But, but the majority of great NBA players are closer scores to Kawhi Leonard and SGA and Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili. And so when I hear the criticism of fga, I'm like, he's not here to entertain us. He's just a tremendous all time player. What do you make of the free throw merchant label?

Rick Bucher (6:10)

I think it's silly and it is inspired by disenfranchised fans who don't like the way or don't like the fact that SGA is getting over on their team and their favorite superstar. The reality is that his ability to draw fouls is a function of all of the other talent and skills that he's developed. He's a three level scorer and he's got the ability to get a step on guys going either direction and he can score in a multitude of ways. He hasn't always had that. And by the way, being able to draw fouls is a skill as well in terms of being able to change pace, direction, speed and score in a multitude of ways. So I, I have no problem with it. Every great player we've seen has been able to do it. And one of the biggest reasons that he has it and the distinction between those players that you, that you mentioned that are all dynamic players and the ones that were dynamic players and were champions. And this is the thing that I think people don't really appreciate when it comes to basketball. We think of it as a vertical sport. The greatest players, the champions, the most efficient players also have a ground game. They have great footwork and fundamentals and can score without having to leap over somebody. And that's what we're seeing with Anthony Edwards right now, is that he doesn't have that. And conversely SGA does, Jalen Brunson does. And until Anthony Edwards develops that, he's not going to be on their level level no matter how dynamic his game might be otherwise.

Colin Cowherd (7:50)

Well, you know, it's interesting Rick, in politics today because you have to win primaries. It basically doesn't play to moderates in common sense either. You're far left or far right and that will get you in the running right. So like if you're a moderate slightly left or slightly right, you're at a huge disadvantage.

Rick Bucher (8:06)

Right.

Colin Cowherd (8:06)

You're better to be far right or far left. And analytics can do that to sports in that it changes your game. Like Ant Edwards, I look at his game and I think I want more touches, I want more dunks, I want more transition. I wonder if analytics is changing his game for the worst.

Rick Bucher (8:26)

Well, I don't know if it's analytics or falling in love with the idea of being Steph Curry and being able to shoot like Steph Curry from three point range, but there's no doubt that that's the worst thing that's happened to Anthony Edwards game was the being on the Olympic team and deciding that he was going to spend the summer trying to be more like Steph Curry because During the season 50% of his shots came from three point range. If I'm the defense ant, taking threes is the best thing that can happen because it's not going to open up things for anybody else. If he's hitting them, yeah, that's a problem. But he's very streaky when it comes to that. And when he gets into the paint, he's much more dangerous when he has his mid range game. All of the threes that he took this season were at the expense of the mid range game. Mid range shots that he used to take, he was developing a mid range game that's almost non existent now. I think one of the most telling stats that I saw today was the fact that SGA averages six 5.86 field goal attempts from the 10 to 16 point range. The foot range, the mid range ant averages one per game. And you can tell that when he gets the ball on the perimeter and he can't see a path to the rim, he gets hesitant because as opposed to SGA just wants to get you on your hip. He gets you on your hip and he's going to get to the free throw line and then he's going to make a decision. Can I get there if I can't get there? Is Isaiah Hartenstein open for a lob Or I can just pull up and hit this mid range and I'm comfortable doing that. And he shoots it. SGA shoots that mid range at 55% that eliminates the need at that high a percentage mid range. That eliminates your need to be able to shoot threes or trade trade two for threes because now you've got to shoot the three at a high percentage. Ant shoots that same shot at closer to 40%. And so that to me is the big hole in Ant's game. And until he gets that or develops that or focuses on that, he's going to be limited and defenses are going to be able to corral him the way that OKC has.

Colin Cowherd (10:44)

One of the hardest things for certainly fans and media but even execs to remember is that you should fall in like with your stars, not fall in love. Almost all players have holes and flaws and whoever has the ball on your team. Too many people I think fell in love with Harden. Harden didn't play defense. He was too ball centric, didn't play well with others. Jalen Brunson I don't think is as naturally gifted as Harden, but he doesn't defend. It doesn't work on the floor with Cat a lot of the time and he needs the ball a lot. So when I look at the Knicks, I know the Knicks haven't been relevant forever. I get falling in love, but I look at him and I think he's not ideal with his current roster. Move Cat, find a catch and shoot while maintaining some size like kd. Doesn't that make some sense?

Rick Bucher (11:39)

I would prefer KD over Cat just because I can. He's more reliable as a scorer and he can catch and shoot or operate off of one dribble. But what I really need is to take one of the hats off of Jalen Brunson because He's not only Mr. Klutz, he's not only their go to scorer, but he's also their playmaker for the most part. You can't really play through Kat or anybody else on that team. What I need, and these names aren't nearly as sexy as KD, but DeMonta, Sabonis and what he does for the Sacramento Kings as a triple double threat, they've played through him these past couple years and he's demonstrated that he can be a playmaker or a Franz Wagner. It's the LeBron James, Luka Doncic type that is not dominating the ball as a scorer. I can use Jalen for that, but I can't use him for both. And there is the element. Look, I think that Jalen tries to play defense. I think that he can play defense in certain situations, but there's just a limit when you're 6ft 190 pounds or so. To expect you to win every matchup offensively and then be able to defend your position in today's uber athletic NBA is a lot to ask.

Colin Cowherd (13:00)

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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Colin Cowherd (14:05)

Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there, but a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate the all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini Credit card you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini Credit card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web bank. In order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts. This content is not investment advice and trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Finally. You know I always notice on TikTok one of the things you see just a bevy of is this fitness world we live in where eat this and do this and I always think to myself people are what they are. You can change for an hour, but by February, February people who signed up for the gym are back to not going to the gym. Yeah, so I hear that Luca, yeah his conditioning is really changing and I think he likes his beer. He likes his off season.

Rick Bucher (17:31)

Right?

Colin Cowherd (17:31)

What do you make of the Luca? I just at the in the end I think he is what he is, right?

Rick Bucher (17:38)

Colin? If we wanted to, we could have had this conversation in 2022 or 2023. I've seen this iteration. I've seen the reports, I've seen the video clips, I've seen him working out I was like, oh, he slimmed down. I can't tell you. He's not alone. There's a lot of other players I've seen. It was like, oh, he's in shape, or he's lost weight. The challenge is over the course of the season, when you are traveling and you've got weird hours and you're fatigued from games, that's when the Steph Currys separate themselves, where they get in and they get their treatment and then they get in the weight room and they're setting that. That standard for themselves and for their entire team. And that is where things have to change if they're going to change for Luka. He's still at a young enough age where I don't want to say that it can't happen because I've seen other players realize, you know what, injury wise and everything else. If I don't take care of better care of my body, I'm going to get into trouble. But that said, it can't. It's not. The off season is the easiest time to take care of yourself. It's in the grind that you've got to be disciplined.

Colin Cowherd (18:51)

Yeah, no question. You're on a flight from, you know, 11:45 to 2 in the morning.

Rick Bucher (18:56)

You arrived, you can't sleep, and they've got food. Let me tell you, I've been on those team flights. There's food outside the locker room. There's food. There's. There's food when you get on the plane, and then they ask you what you'd like to have as a full meal. So the opportunity to put on weight is absolutely there throughout the season.

Colin Cowherd (19:16)

Rick, good seeing you as always, my man.

Rick Bucher (19:17)

You got it.

Colin Cowherd (19:18)

All right, J. Mac with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

J. Mac (19:26)

All right, Colin, let's start with the Green Bay Packers. Haven't done much with them lately. They've kind of been quiet. You know, maybe second, third or fourth in the division this year. But Jordan Love has a new weapon on the outside, a young fellow named Matthew golden out of Texas. He's a burner. And his quarterback says golden looks like a stud. Looks like a very polished receiver. I'm excited to just see how far he could take it. My question is, I don't know how golden cracks the rotation or what they do. They've got one of the best receiving groups in the league. No Alpha, no superstar, but a lot of good players. Christian Watson, Jaden Reed, Romeo Dobbs. What are your expectations for Golden?

Colin Cowherd (20:04)

I think The Dobbs is inconsistent. Watson has hurt a lot. There's, there's no problem having an extra receiver. My take would be that the Green Bay packers will go through camp, early stages of the season, will move one of those receivers, you know, get a fifth round pick or, or, or get a functional interior offensive lineman. But when I saw that draft pick, you know, that draft pick felt like to me is they're disappointed with one of the rece receivers in their room. It could be Watson because of his injuries. But my take was they have a lot of good tight ends, a lot of good receivers, and they drafted another one. Sometimes teams tell you what they're thinking about their personnel during draft and free agency and I thought they told you they're going to move off one of their young receivers and somebody. They've got four guys that have moments.

J. Mac (20:54)

It could be Dobbs. He had the incident where he was bench last week, last season for like getting upset with his touches. Wicks is another guy who's pretty good big body guy. But that is interesting, a trade chip. Let's move off one of the other guys, create some new room for Golden. I don't hate that golden looks like a lot of Jaden Reed who emerged as a potential stud.

Colin Cowherd (21:14)

Yes.

J. Mac (21:15)

He didn't show up late in a big game. I think it might have been the one game late in the season I was like, where's Jaden Reed? So they, they got weapons. I like the Packers. I just, I don't know what to make of them. Colin, next up, Giannis has an idea. Okay. He is endorsing this USA versus the World All Star Game. Now, it's been floated before, but Giannis is now all of a sudden active on social media ahead of potentially his trade summer. He is floating a USA versus the World All Star Game. And Colin, I'm not going to lie, this looks pretty awesome. The problem is how do you get these guys to buy in when Curry and LeBron are old, AD's old, and then a lot of the Europeans, like they need the rest because they're carrying their teams. Giannis, Jokic, Luka. It's a bit of a tough sell. I don't know how you make this interesting, but splitting it into two, certainly, I mean the talent is just.

Colin Cowherd (22:10)

Oh, I would, I would absolutely in one second take this over the current NBA All Star Game. Not even without question. You know, like we care about stuff in this country. When we're threatened or we lose, that's when we really truly care. Watching 148144 doesn't do it for me. I love the idea of this. I think it's smart.

J. Mac (22:31)

So I guess the counter would be like, what's the win is the win. Hey, you get to pump up the USA or the world.

Colin Cowherd (22:38)

The win. The win is, you know, whenever the All Star Game is February, whenever it is, people are talking for two to three days about the NBA. There's some social currency to it. That's the win something.

J. Mac (22:51)

Final story. Colin is Aaron Judge. Oh my gosh, this guy's on a tear. He is hitting.398 right now, chasing four.400. He's first or second in almost every major batting category, trying to break Babe Ruth's record for total bases which has stood since. Is that right? 1921. Oh my gosh. Look at these numbers for Judge. First in average, OBP OPS, total bases, extra base hits, second in home runs. After Ohtani went yard last night, Aaron Judge is absolutely cooking with the Yankees. And I, I, I'd love a Yankees Dodgers rematch in the World Series. You get Judge Vers Otani, which c.

Colin Cowherd (23:31)

Have something to say with that? Who? Oh, keep your eye on the Cubs. Just keep your eye on the Cubs.

J. Mac (23:35)

Why don't you toss the white socks in there while you're at it?

Colin Cowherd (23:40)

No, let's not, let's not do that.

J. Mac (23:41)

Give me a break.

Colin Cowherd (23:42)

J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by. The Herd lie news Nick Wright, Rick Buer both stopped by today live in Chicago. It's the hero. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

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Colin Cowherd (25:12)

Summer is almost here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out, not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified. Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini credit card, you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini credit card is pretty much a no brainer. And right now you can grab a 200 bitcoin intro bonus so go to gemini.comcard to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit card is issued by Web Bank. In order to Qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant Rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk for more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit Card terms, see Rates and Fees. That's always what's interesting about Aaron Rodgers, who still hasn't made a decision. Aaron didn't win enough big games and there's reasons for it. I mean even with Brady Manning and Big Ben in the afc, there was a thought that Aaron would own the nfc. He didn't. He didn't even own the nfc, which had weaker quarterbacks. And so my take is there's a reason. He's not really a foxhole. Guy can be passive aggressive. I've been told this by he wasn't as committed to as other players like, you know, Brady and Manning. He wasn't obsessed. He had a life. And so it's all I've always said it's very hard for me. What do you do with Marino and Aaron Rodgers? Because the four or five things that matter when you judge all time quarterbacks, super bowl appearances and wins, division titles, productivity, mvp, playoff record and Aaron just and Reno just don't match up. Now Aaron's closer than Dan Marino is. But Dan Marino had Don Shula and got to one super bowl and couldn't win. Why? Little bit of a playboy, maybe not as obsessed with work ethic. Middle older, later in his career, didn't have his legs, a little bit stubborn, you know, relied too much on talent and not other factors. He had the coach. It's a coach, quarterback league, my entire life. He had a running game, he had decent protection. So it's nothing against Marino, but it's on Marino. It's not in anybody else. They had good ownership. So when you, when you talk about all these great plays, say what you want about Aikman. When he had the opportunity to win titles, he did two with Jimmy and one with Barry Switzer. He was a leader. He maybe didn't have the talent, but he won. When Bradshaw had the great defenses in Chuck Noel, he goes 40 in Super Bowls. And so you don't have to win all of them. Elway got blown out multiple times. Mahomes has been blown out. But he gets to them. Elway is getting to them over Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. And so like I think Josh Allen and Lamar are all time greats, but if they truly are, they'll make a Super bowl. They'll get the one or two. And so I've always been a huge fan of Lamar Jackson, but if he doesn't get to a Super bowl, then it's hard to put him in that class. Right. He's just a winning regular season player. And you know, a great example is golf. Is that as great as Tiger woods was, Phil Mickelson still won six majors and 45 PGA events because he's an all time great. So I mean, as good as Nadal was and Federer was, Djokovic is still winning those tournaments. Three all time greats simultaneously, you could argue, although Federer's a little older in their prime, they still won all those, all those majors because they're three all time greats, as McEnroe was, as Borg was. And they were simultaneously. I think they were simultaneously in their prime. So that's the thing with Aaron. It's like Aaron, Brady, Manning and Big Ben were on the other ledger. You got to get to Super Bowls and he got the one. Then you could say, well, who do you have as coach? He had offensive coaches. Well, did he have support? They always had good offensive lines. I mean, now Green Bay doesn't get the free agents that other organizations do. But I would argue in the last 25 years they've drafted better than any organization in the league. I really believe that they draft and develop, especially O line. They draft and develop as well as anybody in the league. So it's, I've always said I don't know what to do because as Aaron has been talking in the last couple of weeks, he said, I don't want to play in Louisiana. I'm not going to be a saint. So where he plays matters. He said he'd play for $10 million. So salary doesn't matter. He's telling you it's not about the money, it's about where I play. And at a recent event he, he talked about, you know, he talked about maybe I could go to Green Bay. So I'm not even sure right now if he wants to be a starter. But I've never known if you retire today, where to put him. Jim Kelly, by the way, who also played in another League. I mean, think how good you can say what you want about Jim Kelly. He got four Super Bowls and a lot of his career was in another league. So Jim Kelly has to be considered an all time great to me now he didn't win him. He was going up against the Dynasty and the Dallas Cowboys. But the fact is Jim got to four of them. So I think when you talk about all time greats, if Aaron retired today, I've never quite known, like I've never quite known what to do. Nick here was Aaron over the weekend asked about the possibility as retiring as a Packer.

Rick Bucher (32:46)

I've thought about that and I don't.

Sponsor (32:48)

Understand what the.

Colin Cowherd (32:52)

What the reason for that is.

Rick Bucher (32:54)

You know, at the same time I.

Colin Cowherd (32:56)

Grew up a Niner fan and most of my, my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the, the cool thing about it.

Rick Bucher (33:04)

But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm.

Colin Cowherd (33:08)

Viewed in the packers eye?

Rick Bucher (33:10)

There's a lot of love for me and how I feel about the team. If I do or if I don't.

Colin Cowherd (33:14)

I don't think it should make a difference. I'm not sure yet.

Rick Bucher (33:18)

If they approached me about it, I probably would.

Colin Cowherd (33:21)

So Nick Wright and I were talking about this earlier. If Aaron retired today, Nick says he's top 10. And I struggle with it because the stuff that matters is super bowl appearances and wins division titles. I mean, if you can't win Super Bowls, you got to dominate your division. Big Ben dominates his division. Brady dominates his division. You got to dominate your division. I want productivity. I'll give you some MVPs. I do not care about passer rating at all in your playoff record. And playoff records are, they're hard. Both Favre and Aaron Rodgers were around 500. I get it. I think Favre has a couple more wins in the playoffs, but it's hard. You're playing the best teams. But I also would say that Green Bay has a bit of a weather advantage. I mean for dome teams and warm weather teams going to Green Bay, like you can remember Michael Vick winning there. Like it was so shocking. You, you, you are not shocked when a cold weather team goes down to a dome and wins, it's. That's much easier. So I don't know. I mean, again, I'm not saying Aaron's not a top 1215 quarterback of all time, but when he's, when he's talking about retiring, he's a Hall of Famer, he's first ballot. Some like far more I always preferred Aaron as a quarterback. I thought he was more of a thinking person's quarterback. I don't know what to do with him all time and I don't know what to do with Dan Marino. NBA style matters, NFL winning matters, especially in January and February. And Marino didn't win a lot there. And I think a lot of it's on Dan. It's not on Shula, it's not on the organization. And Aaron didn't win a lot, didn't dominate the nfc. I think some of it's on Aaron and I've said I never thought he was a foxhole guy. People can push back, that's fine. But that's kind of where we stand now. Here's Nick earlier on Aaron Rodgers, sort of the all time debate. If he retired today since the merger.

Rick Bucher (35:02)

I think there are to me six guys I would clearly have ahead of.

Colin Cowherd (35:07)

Aaron and then five or six guys.

Rick Bucher (35:09)

He'S right there with them.

Colin Cowherd (35:11)

And the Marino part is tricky because you're right, he's got none of the winning. But the flip side to that is literally every person that covered the league in the 80s or played, they all.

Rick Bucher (35:24)

Swear a blood oath that he's one.

Colin Cowherd (35:27)

Of the greatest players anyone's ever seen. And so I, I and I feel like there is some of that same almost mythological aspect to Aaron, which is guys who played with him and against him talk about his talent in such an amazing way.

J. Mac (35:45)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (35:45)

And maybe it's just as simple as this. Athletes, quarterbacks consider Aaron all time top 10. But I think you have to consider this. If he is top 10, what happens if Josh Allen wins the Super Bowl? He's absolutely going to push him out. What happens if Lamar wins a Super bowl with a 76% winning percentage in a division with Joe Burrow, the Steelers, that could push him out. So if Aaron is top 10, it's probably 9, 10ish. And there's no question Mahomes is already in there. I'm not that far from, I mean Allen manned up being Marino, where you don't get the Super Bowls but you get everything else. And maybe Josh Allen is our current Dan Marino. But in terms of an athlete playing quarterback, I think Josh Allen's the most talented quarterback I've ever seen. Second away, third. Mahomes just talent. The other thing is, I'll throw this out there. J. Mac, this is one we've talked about. If Stafford wins another super bowl, you think it's crazy. He was a better high school quarterback than Aaron, a better college quarterback, a Better first four year in the league quarterback and a much better quarterback late. I think Stafford has signed that team friendly deal because I think Stafford is aware that with another super bowl he moves into a. I mean you can say what you want about Stafford, go look at Stafford's playoff record. He just had the dysfunction of Detroit in the prime of his career. But if Stafford wins another Super Bowl, I'm sorry, he is really close to top 10 all time. Really close because he's been a good regular season quarterback where Eli wasn't.

J. Mac (37:19)

Settle down there big guy. A lot of ifs with Josh Allen and if Lamar and Stafford. Let's just deal with the numbers because you mentioned Elway earlier and when I hear Elway and I say Rogers for sure I go down a rabbit hole. Colin, I know you're not going to want to hear this. Elway vs Rogers is super interesting. I'll just start with this. Every statistical category almost Aaron Rodgers destroys him and I love Elway. Elway has a better culture of winning Super Bowls obviously and comebacks. John Elway was the master of comebacks. Rogers does not have a surprisingly low number of comebacks.

Colin Cowherd (37:52)

That's right.

J. Mac (37:52)

But if you just look at it from pure quarterbacking, Aaron Rodgers is top five and that's undeniable.

Colin Cowherd (37:59)

Aaron's careers in a passing league, Elway, it was a much more defense could do anything they wanted back then. Go look, go look at what defense could do then to a wide receiver and a quarterback.

J. Mac (38:10)

I like Elway. I was a huge fan. Fan of Elway. Yeah, I was distraught when he couldn't win until he got Terrell Davis. But Roger's not top 10. That's one of your hotter takes of 2025.

Colin Cowherd (38:19)

I'm not saying he couldn't be 11. I'm not saying it's not 5 and 10.

J. Mac (38:24)

Colin.

Colin Cowherd (38:29)

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