Hour 3 - The NBA playoffs

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 3: The NBA Playoffs

Release Date: April 28, 2025

Hosts: Rick Bucher, Chris Broussard, and Jason McIntyre

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1. Playoff Intensity and Team Messaging ([02:24] - [03:01])

The episode kicks off with Rick Bucher highlighting the heightened intensity of the NBA playoffs. He emphasizes the physicality and the psychological messages teams send through their in-game decisions and player management.

• Rick Bucher remarks at [02:26], “These playoffs are feisty. They're physical. The arenas are packed and loud and intense.”

2. Coaching Strategies and Team Management ([03:02] - [05:51])

Chris Broussard critiques JJ Redick’s benching strategies, suggesting that the front office is receiving subtle messages about team dynamics and player roles. He contrasts JJ Redick's approach with Steve Kerr's more structured rotation adjustments.

• At [03:15], Chris Broussard states, “J.J. never made that move [to set a rotation], and so he got to a point where Dalton connect. Can you throw him out there?”

Bucher adds his perspective on the Clippers’ organizational moves, indicating trust in their management.

• At [04:47], Rick Bucher concurs, “They tried at the trade deadline. Then they realized we can't give up Dalton and a number one pick to get Mark Williams, that's too much of a risky.”

3. Luka Doncic and Mavericks' Roster Needs ([05:52] - [08:04])

The discussion shifts to Luka Doncic and the Dallas Mavericks, focusing on the need for roster adjustments to support their star player. Broussard points out the mismatch in offensive capabilities and the necessity for a rim runner to complement Doncic.

• Chris Broussard observes at [07:47], “They tried to do was to get another big. He needs a rim runner.”

Bucher expresses his confidence in the Mavericks’ potential despite the challenges.

• At [08:04], Rick Bucher states, “I think they're title contenders. But no, this isn't the right roster for Luka.”

4. Damian Lillard’s Injury ([21:50] - [22:08])

A significant segment covers the unfortunate injury of Damian Lillard, who tore his Achilles. Jason McIntyre shares his personal connection and sends thoughts to Lillard, acknowledging the impact on both his career and the Portland Trail Blazers.

• Jason McIntyre solemnly notes at [22:00], “Damian Lillard. It's official, he has torn Achilles... It was devastating, man. It stinks.”

Bucher echoes the sentiment, recognizing the severity of the injury.

• At [22:01], Rick Bucher adds, “Yeah, it was rough.”

5. Giannis Antetokounmpo’s Trade Speculations ([23:05] - [26:43])

The conversation delves into the Milwaukee Bucks' playoff struggles and the future of Giannis Antetokounmpo. Bucher and McIntyre explore potential trade scenarios, debating the value and willingness of teams to part with Giannis.

• Rick Bucher muses at [23:05], “The Giannis market is... very good. It's gonna be a fun summer.”

When discussing trade offers, Bucher outlines specific conditions he’d require, emphasizing the need for multiple first-round picks and key players.

• At [24:18], Rick Bucher specifies, “I'd want more. If you gave me Jalen Brown and three picks...”

6. Game Recaps: Clippers vs. Nuggets ([25:37] - [26:59])

A detailed recap of Game 4 between the Los Angeles Clippers and the Denver Nuggets is presented. The hosts analyze the pivotal moments, including the game-winning dunk by Gordon at [26:00], and discuss the physical and athletic disparities between the teams.

• Chris Broussard describes the final play at [25:59], “Fade away. Dunked home by Gordon at the Horde. You count that basket? It's good.”

Bucher praises Gordon's athleticism, highlighting the intense finish.

• At [26:35], Rick Bucher remarks, “Clippers are way more athletic.”

7. Refereeing and Physicality in Playoffs ([29:00] - [20:00])

The hosts debate the impact of refereeing on the physical nature of playoff basketball. They discuss how the consistency of officiating affects game outcomes, especially in high-stakes moments.

• Rick Bucher comments at [15:13], “The only downside to allowing such physical play? You occasionally get fights...”

• Chris Broussard supports the importance of physicality, stating at [16:49], “Because it's made the games more competitive and it's actually made teams play basketball.”

8. Additional Highlights and Discussions ([26:00] - [42:04])

The episode also touches on various other topics, including:

• Amateur Drafts and NFL Players: Insights into how certain NFL players are transitioning into other leagues and the challenges they face.

• Player Development: Discussion on young players like Antetokounmpo and their growth in the playoffs.

• Memorable Moments: Nostalgic references to past sports moments, enhancing the thematic depth of the discussion.

Key Takeaways

• Team Dynamics: Effective rotation and clear team roles are crucial for playoff success. Lack of structure can send unintended messages to the front office and players.

• Player Injuries: High-profile injuries like Damian Lillard’s Achilles tear have significant ramifications for teams and player careers.

• Trade Possibilities: Superstar players like Giannis Antetokounmpo remain central to trade discussions, with potential moves heavily scrutinized based on team needs and future prospects.

• Refereeing Impact: Consistent and fair officiating is essential in maintaining the integrity and competitive nature of playoff basketball.

• Athleticism and Physicality: The balance between competitive physical play and maintaining game integrity continues to be a pivotal discussion point.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rick Bucher [02:26]: “These playoffs are feisty. They're physical. The arenas are packed and loud and intense.”

• Chris Broussard [03:15]: “J.J. never made that move [to set a rotation], and so he got to a point where Dalton connect. Can you throw him out there?”

• Jason McIntyre [22:00]: “Damian Lillard. It's official, he has torn Achilles... It was devastating, man. It stinks.”

• Rick Bucher [23:05]: “The Giannis market is... very good. It's gonna be a fun summer.”

• Chris Broussard [16:49]: “Because it's made the games more competitive and it's actually made teams play basketball.”

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This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd delves deep into the intricacies of the NBA playoffs, offering listeners a blend of analysis, personal insights, and spirited debate. The hosts consistently highlight the evolving dynamics of team management, player development, and the ever-present impact of officiating on the game's outcome. Whether discussing the strategic maneuvers of star players or reflecting on poignant moments like Lillard's injury, the conversation remains both comprehensive and engaging, providing valuable perspectives for both avid fans and casual observers.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Rick Bucher]

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[Chris Broussard]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Now let's get this party started.

[Rick Bucher]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. All right. These playoffs are feisty. They're physical. The arenas are packed and loud and intense. It has been highly engaging. Basketball Rick Buker's joining us. I think it might. My take is there are messages sent all the time. Shador Sanders dropping is a message. JJ Redick not going to the bench is a message to the front office. Okay, hotshot, that looks like Rob Lowe. Rob Belinka, congratulations on your new extension and advancement the organization. Yeah, get me Bigs.

[Chris Broussard]

Sure.

[Rick Bucher]

He's sh. He's basically saying without saying, I trust five guys.

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah, yeah. No, that's certainly what he did in, in the last game. I do think that it was reactionary and impulsive as opposed to really planned. And I can't put it all on Rob Pelinka because this is where I believe that JJ showed his youth and inexperience as a coach because he has been mixing and matching with his bench all season long. And at some point you have to decide, I'm going to set what my rotation is and what the roles are for my, my, my role players because they need that comfort level. Steve Kerr was mixing and matching for a good part of the season, but he got to February, March, and he said, okay, I need to make some decisions. Jonathan Kaminga, you're going to the bench. Like, this is going to be rotation. We're going to play primarily small. Jackson. Trace Jackson. Davis. Sorry. Kevin Looney. Kevon Looney. Sorry. You're like, this is what we're going to go with. J.J. never made that move. And so he got to a point where Dalton connect. Can you throw him out there? And I have no idea what I'm going to get. That was the case with, with all of those players. So does the roster need to change for Luka? Absolutely. But we knew that going in. When they made the trade, we said, oh, they've taken a step back. And then they ended up being better than we thought. And everybody's like, oh, no, they're title contenders. No, this isn't the right roster for Luka. Doncic and the biggest missing piece which you pointed out they've tried to do was to get another big. He needs a rim runner.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Chris Broussard]

Lob protector. I looked at the numbers from last year's Minnesota Dallas series because I was wondering, like, okay, Luke is getting his numbers, but he's got. Last I checked, he had like 18 assists and 14 turnovers in this series.

[Rick Bucher]

Oh, he's not getting assists in the series.

[Chris Broussard]

Last year. In last year's series, he had like 40 some assists and 18 turnovers, but.

[Rick Bucher]

He'S not getting the lob points.

[Chris Broussard]

Exactly. Derek Lively, Daniel Gafford. Last year he had first of all he had a rim defender. He had a good shot blocker behind him to protect him defensively. But offensively those guys were a combined like plus 40. And Jackson Hayes is close to a minus 20. That is the biggest difference between those two. And you weren't going to fix that in the short term. They tried at the trade deadline. Then they realized we can't give up. Dalton connect and a number one pick to get Mark Williams, that's too much of a risky. So they risky move. So they pulled it back. But ultimately that's where you have to go.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Chris Broussard]

By the way, you just, you know, I'm a little disappointed. You've been hanging out with the wrong people. Your producer tried to convince you that the Timberwolves were more of a threat than you were saying. I would have helped you out on that.

[Rick Bucher]

I didn't know. Julius Randle, which he'd never done in his career, starts hitting 43% of his three pointers. He'd always been a massive playoff disappointment. Yep, he's played great.

[Chris Broussard]

He has. And the thing was, is when he got to Minnesota, he was not very good and they were not very good. And I think everybody kind of turned the page on the Timberwolves. But over the last part of the season, Randle was playing much better and they'd learned to play through him. So you just have to be careful about who you're hanging out with and where you're getting your. Some of your NBA expertise. Nick Wright can be a dangerous. It can be a dangerous source.

[Rick Bucher]

You know, we were saying this three years ago. John Morant would have been taken over ant by a lot of people in the NBA. Nobody now would take job or ant. I thought ants defensive effort is really what a lot of young players come into this league and they've never had to play defense. And I'm watching Ant his fourth quarter stuff. Yep, he's the best player on the floor.

[Chris Broussard]

Yep.

[Rick Bucher]

Like in that. That to me, he's been very good for years. I feel like this series has kind of been a definer.

[Chris Broussard]

Like, no question about it. No question about it. I thought that for Minnesota win and for him to be able to outplay Luka and LeBron in. In crunch time, that he was going to have to elevate his game. He was going to have to go to the next level. Not from a physical standpoint, but from a mental standpoint. And one of the reasons that I had, I maintained a certain belief that he could do that is talking to Mike Conley over the last couple years And Mike was like, he wants to learn. He wants to be better. He sits next to me and is asking me questions all the time. And I thought, okay, at some point he's going to get over the immaturity and we're going to see that come to fruition. And that's exactly what you're seeing in this series.

[Rick Bucher]

Okay, so I picked Houston in seven without Kaminga being an asset. Then Butler gets hurt. I'm like, all right, grab the shovels. It's over. Were you shocked? Not by Steph's performance, but, I mean, offensively, Houston again, doesn't quite know what the heck they are.

[Chris Broussard]

I was shocked by Alpern Sengun, I'll say that. He. He was so mentally wrecked in that last game.

[Rick Bucher]

Why?

[Chris Broussard]

That I don't know. Because it wasn't like Draymond was doing anything extraordinary. He was getting all. He was getting to all his spots, but for whatever reason, he missed some shots early. And I don't know if it was the magnitude of the game. This is what happens when you have young teams go on the road. On the road. Unproven star. And this is the value when you have a young team and you get to the playoffs, because guys can be regular season studs, but the playoffs are just a different animal when they're able to dial into what you like to do. And they make it difficult.

[Rick Bucher]

I mean, if you turn the sound down and watch the crowds, yes, people are up.

[Chris Broussard]

Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

I mean, it's, it's an intimidating. Houston looked almost intimidated at times.

[Chris Broussard]

Y. And, and the funny thing is, is during the regular season, they had a pivotal game at the end of the regular season, went into the Chase center and they won that game. Totally different performance. But there's something about, you know what? This game could be the decider in the series. This possession could be the decider of this game. That just creates a whole different atmosphere for young players. And until you see them in those moments and you see them perform, you don't really know. Are they a cut above? Can you build your team around them in terms of being a post season threat?

[Rick Bucher]

Well, I mean, we've said this. The disadvantage to being young in the NBA playoffs is the referees swallow the whistle. And sometimes these older players are just bigger and stronger. And they've been in NBA weight rooms for a decade, NBA nutrition. And it's just like you're. I mean, it's like Nas Reed, Julius Randall. Some of these guys are men. And you can see the difference physically on a Houston and like a Minnesota Or a Los Angeles Laker team. Okay. So I still contend the Clippers are the better team. Jokic is the best player. The hardest part about this series is finding it on TV consistently. I'm going to go, I still think the Clippers have more depth.

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

I mean, you go to the box score of this and it's like, basically, you look how Jamal doing. How do Jokic do? Yeah, I just feel I get more. A little bit like Minnesota. I've got more potential scores here for the Clippers.

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm. I'm with you. They have the depth and the versatility and the size and the go to scorers. The Clippers have the better team. It's just a matter of their execution at the end of games because. And then again, it kind of comes down to the leadership. If you watch Jokic throughout this, he's talking, he's barking, he's trying to get guys in place. He's making demands of both David Adelman, the interim coach, and the players. Who's doing that for the Clippers? I know when things go a little bit sideways.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Broussard]

Everybody's trying to get their own thing. And Kawhi, one on one, offensively and defensively, is everything you could want. But sometimes you need that guy to say, hey, this is what I need from you and you and you. And that's just not how Kawhi operates. And so that's the missing piece. When things get a little shaky, you need somebody to pull everybody together and say, this is the game plan. And Ty Lue is a great coach, but I've always gotten the sense that at the end of games, he kind of hands over the keys to the car to his best player. He hands him over to Kawhi or to James and says, okay, this is your time. You get it done. And if you have the right guys with the right leadership, that happens. But that's the one missing element for the Clippers is just that vocal leadership. When things go a little sideways, you look at them. On paper, they are the better team than the Nuggets.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Rick Bucher]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Rick Bucher]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Chris Broussard]

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[Rick Bucher]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Rick Bucher]

Finally, I think the Knicks are better than the Pistons. I said earlier I like physical play. I liked players deciding it, not the refs. The only downside to allowing such physical play? You occasionally get fights. There's still that malice in the palace thing the league's paralyzed by. Shouldn't be, but is. The second problem is when you let a game be officiated physically, that is fine. It doesn't change outcomes. But with a minute left, if you don't call that stuff, it changes outcomes. And it's too close to the end of the game that fans remember it. And so I'm watching them let these guys arm wrestle for two and a half hours, and then those officials are like, well, we wouldn't have called that earlier. And it's like, guys, that's a game changer.

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

What do you do with that?

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah, you have to recognize the situation if guys are in the pot. And this is. You have a lot of referees who are inexperienced at calling this game like this and being able to differentiate. It's not the level of physicality, it's where the physicality is happening. Like, you know, people were to when. When ant is pushing LeBron James in the chest and they're kind of wrestling and doing all that. You're not calling that because it's not impacting the ball actually going in the basket. That's just almost a mental wrestle. Right. Who's trying to get into whose head. And we enjoy that. We enjoy that. Back and forth. By the way, shout out to Adam Silver that we're allowing this physicality.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes.

[Chris Broussard]

Because it's made the games more competitive and it's actually made teams play basketball. You have to play team basketball in order to get a shot.

[Rick Bucher]

No question.

[Chris Broussard]

You can't just put it in one guy's hands and he goes to the cup and he's either scoring or he's going to the free throw line. We see far less of that. But here's the distinction in that. In that particular instance with the Pistons and, And. And the Knicks, and that's that in the post, I'm going to allow physicality. I'm. I'm shoulder to shoulder. I'm going to. I have to allow that bump. If it's a guy and it's a jump shooter. If you're just touching my elbow, if you're just hitting my shoulder a little bit, you're impacting my ability to make that shot. I have to blow the whistle on that call. And it's recognizing the difference between those two. And since we've been blowing the whistle for everything now, we can't see the distinction. Referees can't see the distinction between, oh, inside, I got a little more go on the outside, I'm. I'm all eyes that if there's contact, I've got to blow the whistle. And the other part is. Is from the. Where the referee was standing, the contact was on the other Side and you. So you don't know how much of that was contact affected the shot and how much was Tim Hardaway Jr. Trying to sell it. So I got to give him some grace there. But the bigger reason for what we're seeing, maybe the. The uncertainty is because we haven't called. The NBA has not called the game this way for the longest time. So there's an adjustment period for the referees as well.

[Rick Bucher]

I tell you, it's hard to turn off the physicality makes.

[Chris Broussard]

When Ant and LeBron, they should bring back the I love this game campaign as well, because you know what? I can say genuinely, I love this game.

[Colin Cowherd]

Same.

[Rick Bucher]

I mean, it is just. It's so good when LeBron and Ant are. I mean, knock. And you're like, oh, this is. This is all of it. Finesse. J. Mac likes rainbows and butterflies out there. I'm out here. I want. I like my Julius Randall. I like my Rudy Gobert little forearm shimmer to the bowl of it.

[Chris Broussard]

All of it. And here's the thing. The league has this great. You talked about, like, the fights and all that stuff. Look, we don't have guys like that in the league anymore. Guys are making. Guys were making hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah. You were gonna. You were gonna fight because the pie was smaller. The pie was smaller. Now there's way too much at stake. I'm gonna square off.

[Rick Bucher]

This thing's a money maker.

[Chris Broussard]

Yes. I'm not. You guys are not throwing haymakers now. Like, it's never getting to that. So meanwhile, we get to see guys go nose to nose and. And talk trash. And. And more than anything, we get to see that they care on the level that fans.

[Rick Bucher]

That is really the key to this. You watch the NBA. LeBron's diving into ant. You're like, LeBron's in year 22.

[Chris Broussard]

Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

He's worth $800 million or more, and he's diving on the floor for a loose ball.

[Chris Broussard]

100%.

[Rick Bucher]

That's what the fans want.

[Chris Broussard]

Exactly.

[Rick Bucher]

By the way, I. I can't. I love it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Rick Bucher]

They care as much as we do.

[Chris Broussard]

That's what we want to see.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes.

[Chris Broussard]

We want to know that they care as much as. As we do. And I believe they always have.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes.

[Chris Broussard]

But when the. When the whistle is so quick, if you touch a guy, what are you supposed to do? Like, I want to stay in the game.

[Rick Bucher]

Right.

[Chris Broussard]

I can't touch him. Well, then how am I supposed to play hard if I can't touch him?

[Rick Bucher]

I hope J. Mac, you paid attention this Segment.

[Chris Broussard]

J. Mac is used to his pickup game where you know the kind of player J. Mac is. Oh, I know J. Mac. Pump fake, pump fake. It gets. Gets his shot blocked and he's like, oh, got Val. Got him. Got me on the wrist.

[Jason McIntyre]

Because LeBron was asking if ball is wrist.

[Chris Broussard]

Wrist is not part of the ball.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's not.

[Chris Broussard]

Hand is part of the ball. Okay, that was interesting.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, the.

[Jason McIntyre]

What was that called? The Hawk camera in the sky. Referees don't even have access to that. Oh, look, this camera found a foul. Lakers get jobs.

[Chris Broussard]

No, that was.

[Rick Bucher]

That was a tough one.

[Jason McIntyre]

That was devastating.

[Chris Broussard]

It was tough, but it was right.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes, it was.

[Chris Broussard]

It was.

[Rick Bucher]

Jake with the news handcuffed.

[Chris Broussard]

Turn on the news.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is the Herd line news. I almost want to keep Rick around for this one. Bummer news. It just broke. Colin Damian Lillard. It's official, he has torn Achilles, according to Chris Haynes, who's tight with Lillard. You know, I've seen this a million times. You just. You don't have the burst and he just goes down instantly. Non contact injury. It's just devastating, man. It stinks. He's getting up there in age. He's in his mid-30s. The Bucs do not have much of a path to success. They have no future number ones for like five or six years. Colin, you know where this conversation's headed, but we'll start with this. Tyrese Halliburton, who's had some beef with Lillard back and forth, had some really nice things to say about Lillard after the game. Before y'all ask any questions, I want to send my thoughts and prayers to Dame. What you see between us is competing and, you know you hate to see that happen, especially to a guy who's went through a lot and, you know, he's given it his all to come out here and play after the scary, scary health issue. So it's well documented. You know, the. The love I had for that guy and so hate to see it happen to anybody and wish him the best.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, it was rough.

[Jason McIntyre]

One of the most popular players in the league. You know, he works out of my gym in the off season sometimes, so I've seen Dame nicest guy, anybody who comes up to talk to.

[Rick Bucher]

Oh, he's a great guy.

[Jason McIntyre]

He is just a good human. He's been through a lot off the court personally, and now dealing with this, and it's just a huge bummer. By the way, once we're done saying stuff about Dane, we need to talk about the Milwaukee Bucks and Giannis oh.

[Rick Bucher]

You got a three straight years first round exit. If they lose, they're down three, one for round. Third straight first round exit.

[Jason McIntyre]

We're going to hear about their luxury tax payments pretty soon and that ownership group is not going to be thrilled paying a massive luxury tax bill losing in the first round.

[Rick Bucher]

I've said this before. You can get an absolute. You can get three first round picks. Three to four players. One being, you know, maybe like a, like, like a male Bridges, good starter, third best starter level player or an OG and a bunch of picks. I mean I, I would want an all star back and three picks. Okay, so let me like the Mavericks with Luca. Had they gotten three first rounders and AD and Austin Reaves. I'll make the deal.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I had a fun talk with some of the guys here. Okay. So I'm going to throw some names at you. Would you include them in a trade for Giannis? Okay, Giannis is 30, turning 31 in December.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, he's still great.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's having a great top of his game. But what was he have three, four more years of prime.

[Rick Bucher]

All right, go maybe five.

[Jason McIntyre]

Would you trade the number one pick in the draft along with players? The number one pick would be Cooper Flag for Giannis.

[Rick Bucher]

I'd want more.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, you're going to get more. But would you give up Cooper flag for 12 years for like 4 years of primus?

[Rick Bucher]

How many first round picks?

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean it's going to take a few. Colin. I, I personally would not do it.

[Rick Bucher]

And I love you gave me Cooper Flag. Three first and a very good NBA player like again a male Bridges and.

[Jason McIntyre]

Austin Rebecca Pelicans win the. Win the lottery. We'll give you Zion, whatever else. And the number one team.

[Rick Bucher]

No, because Zion's never available.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay. Jaylen Brown of the Celtics. Okay, give him up with you know, Derrick White, Drew, whatever the salary and a couple picks.

[Rick Bucher]

Don't just say in a bite. Give me the specifics.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, okay fine. Let's toss in Drew Holiday and, and Jaylen Brown. Would you do that for Giannis?

[Rick Bucher]

No, no, no. You got to give. If you gave me Jalen Brown and three picks.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, yeah, you're getting.

[Rick Bucher]

And I want a rotational player. I want Peyton Pritchard so I get a great six man a really good number two three first round picks. Jaylen Brown. Peyton. Peyton Pritchard. Three first round pick would be start. I'm gonna. I think if you're Milwaukee that's about as I mean because Jaylen Brown and Pritchard you're Back court you got.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's really good.

[Rick Bucher]

That's a very.

[Jason McIntyre]

Those are two starters you're getting. Last one. Houston obviously needs Amen Thompson, Jalen Green and four firsts for Giannis.

[Rick Bucher]

I'll take Shen Goon Sengun. Amen Thompson. I'm not.

[Chris Broussard]

And.

[Rick Bucher]

And three first.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'm not giving up both of those. I like Amen Thompson a lot. He could be in four years an all NBA player. He's really freaking good.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, but I.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay.

[Rick Bucher]

Shen Goon. Amen Thompson. Two firsts. I would do it. I would do it.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's not bad. Listen, the Giannis market, the KD market, it's gonna be a fun summer.

[Rick Bucher]

The Giannis market is. I mean, he is.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's in his prime.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. He's getting 34 points a game against a very good and long Indiana team.

[Jason McIntyre]

He says no help.

[Rick Bucher]

All right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sticking with the NBA. You know, we didn't talk about this, but game four of Clippers Nuggets. Unbelievable game. Nuggets were dominating. And then the Clippers storm back. It's tied at 99 with 8 seconds left. Here's the call from 92.5 FM Altitude Sports Radio.

[Rick Bucher]

Here we go.

[Chris Broussard]

Murray looks in, throws it in.

[Rick Bucher]

Over to Jokic, hands it. Fake the handoff.

[Chris Broussard]

Over to Murray.

[Rick Bucher]

Jokic at the logo.

[Chris Broussard]

One on one with Zubox.

[Rick Bucher]

Two seconds left. Fade away. Dunked home by Gordon at the Horde. You count that basket? It's good. At the Horde. And Denver wins game number four. Well, they had to look at it.

[Jason McIntyre]

They needed that overhunk. Camera angle. That was the only one that showed.

[Rick Bucher]

It's funny. The sound of it sounds like it shouldn't be good. I agree, but you can't go off that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

What a crazy ending.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, do you see who missed the box out there? James Harden skying right.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, Gordon's five inches tall. Yeah. Clippers are way more athletic.

[Jason McIntyre]

Clippers are the better team in this series.

[Rick Bucher]

Gordon, such a dude. Gordon would be a tight end in the NFL. He is a great athlete. Yeah, look at that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Look at how close.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, that.

[Colin Cowherd]

That.

[Rick Bucher]

That is North Carolina State now.

[Jason McIntyre]

Jim Valvano running around the court.

[Rick Bucher]

Remember it was. Was Lorenzo Charles short?

[Jason McIntyre]

Good memory.

[Chris Broussard]

No, no.

[Rick Bucher]

Lorenzo Charles dunked. Was. Was it Shippenberg, Derek Wittenberg who was short on the job?

[Jason McIntyre]

Before my time, but I think it was. Yes, it was.

[Rick Bucher]

Albuquerque and NC State won it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Really good stuff. Final story to the ufl. We had a sick play call from the Battle Hawks and there went over the Panthers. Six minutes left. St. Louis pulled off the wide receiver reverse pass for the go ahead 57 yard touchdown of former Steelers receiver Hakeem Butler.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, I love Butler.

[Jason McIntyre]

Coming out of Iowa State, didn't really catch on. He tried to move to tight end. Now he's thriving in the ufl, creating the separation there for the tutty and the game winner.

[Rick Bucher]

You have NFL players here. I've said last year, tight ends, wide receivers, corners. There's NFL players here, certainly. No question. I still can't believe in the draft, Damian Martinez for Miami went middle of the seventh round of the Seahawks. I watched him, he averaged. He averaged like four, six a carry. I watched three or four Hurricane games. He was excellent in all of them. It's crazy.

[Chris Broussard]

It was.

[Rick Bucher]

Wittenberg missed the three. Lorenzo Charles made the dunk.

[Jason McIntyre]

Look at that memory for you, huh?

[Rick Bucher]

But I. If you go to the seventh round of this draft, there were guys that I watched play and were good in big games against good teams that went middle seventh round. The Hamilton, the Ohio State defensive lineman. Is it Ty Hamilton, the defensive tackle for Ohio State. How did he go middle round?

[Jason McIntyre]

So strange stuff went down at this drive. The cornerback for Ohio State, Burke. Is it Denzel Burke? I think he fell to like the fifth or sixth round. There's a lot of guys like all American talent dropping.

[Rick Bucher]

Ty Hamilton went fifth round of the Rams. And I'm like, I watched him in big games. He will absolutely play as a rookie for the Rams. He may not start over. Kobe Turner, he will play. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

How'd you like the Rams draft, by the way?

[Rick Bucher]

Well, they didn't have that many players. They wanted weapons. They got a, they got a running back, which maybe tells you Blake Corum's not the guy. They got a tight end, Terence Ferguson. Then they went and got a receiver late and they got a really, really Stewart, the Michigan hyper, athletic guy.

[Jason McIntyre]

No quarterback, huh?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no.

[Rick Bucher]

They told you earlier.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

When they traded out, they told you next year's our class. I on the air. I said I do not buy the Rams Jackson Dart rumors.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't buy those. Imagine them not thinking, hey, Shador could have value for us in the fourth round behind staff.

[Rick Bucher]

Imagine they can know their playing for the Super Bowl. I know they don't need a backup quarterback. They have Jimmy Garoppolo, that's fine.

[Jason McIntyre]

And if Stafford goes down, just, hey, forget the season.

[Rick Bucher]

Play it in Super Bowls. If Stafford goes down late, at least we got a guy who's been in big playoff games. Yeah, J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the News.

[Jason McIntyre]

And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News.

[Rick Bucher]

Oh, yeah, what a show. A lot of stuff going. A lot of movement today. We're wrapping up next the Herd.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Chris Broussard]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

[Colin Cowherd]

At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance.

[Rick Bucher]

While its sleek design exudes innovative style.

[Colin Cowherd]

From the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified.

[Chris Broussard]

Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.

[Rick Bucher]

Alright, buckle up. Good job.

[Chris Broussard]

New Instagram Teen Accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.

[Colin Cowherd]

Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company the powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

[Rick Bucher]

Our graphic department went out sorry radio audience and made a graphic for the Browns. Starting off, they don't quite know what to do at quarterback, so there's five orange dots for quarterback. I contend Joe Flacco should be the leader in the clubhouse. Shador closely behind him. Kenny Pickett right now is favored to start, but Shador is a better quarterback than Kenny Pickett. Now Pickett's been in the league longer so obviously he's got a head start there. But yeah, I he got underdrafted. Here's Matt Hasselbeck earlier on Shedeurs free fall.

[E]

Once he fell, it was clear he was going to fall for, you know, he could fall pretty far and there were some great quarterbacks and for me, as a 6 round pick pick 187, I was kind of in my mind a little bit like cry me a river. You know there's some good players out there. Kyle McCord, Riley Leonard, will Howard. But I do think Shador Sanders is a really good quarterback. I think he's talented. Clearly his film was a lot better than I think maybe some of the interactions and some of the lead up to the draft. And that probably gave some people some pause. Some teams had taken him, chose to go elsewhere.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, I thought, you know, remember his dad famously sandbagged interviews and bragged about it. His dad was an A plus plus plus prospect. There are reports now from various sources, from Justina Anderson to the ringers, Todd McShay saying, you know, he came off as brash or disengaged. And, you know, so I don't think, you know, Dion sort of pivoted in mid March to late March into, okay, anybody can draft him. But that wasn't at the super bowl what we were hearing. And I think that those are crucial months in February and March as teams are making up their draft board and making decisions. And, you know, you got a dad out there. You know, I've been saying this for the last two weeks. Quarterback dad has become pageant mom. Your intentions are good, but you're misguided and it turns people off. And we saw it with Nico I. Amaliava in college. You know, the dad said, we're took his son out of practice and college football said, no, we're not going to do it here. That's not the way it's going to work. And similarly, I think the NFL sent a message like, no. And the other thing that's not being discussed on a lot of other shows, nobody wants a celebrity backup quarterback. Like, to bring in Tim Tebow to the jets was a huge mess for Mark Sanchez. Bill Belichick famously let Cam Newton go. Not that Cam Newton wouldn't have been one of the better backups in the league, but Cam is high profile. You don't want a celebrity backup. That's the downside to being a Johnny Manziel. You start or not interested because your backup quarterbacks, often an older quarterback, a mentor, or like Jalen Milroe, maybe in a year and a half to two years, you're the guy. But Shedeur, in my opinion, is ready to play pretty soon. So if you didn't see him as a starter and not many teams needed a starter, Pittsburgh and Tennessee needed an immediate starter. I would argue Cleveland, but they gave you this signal very early in the draft by trading down. We don't like this class we're going to next year. Cleveland sent a message with a second pick. We'll give up Travis Hunter, who we know is great. We want a second first round pick. We're going to get a quarterback next year. So Stefanski and Andrew Barry are sharp guys. They sent the message. That's why when they draft Shador later. It feels like probably the owner, which he's done before. Here's Hasselbeck on how to make five quarterbacks in a quarterback room work in in the NFL.

[E]

It doesn't feel like a head coach, GM draft pick for that reason. It feels like an ownership draft pick. It feels like, you know, they had a plan and then all of a sudden someone who ranks higher than them said, hey, why don't we do this? I wouldn't be surprised to see somebody get traded at some point. That's just the nature of how it goes. But I remember being my first year, I was the fourth string quarterback for the Green Bay packers and like I said, there's nothing to do. Essentially they used me as a practice squad tight end at pract. So some, some, somebody's gotta go.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Can I ask real quick? So Deshaun Watson historically struggled in Stefansky's offense. Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

He's not a classic pocket quarterback. Shador is.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, when Joe Flacco took over the reigns, remember they got hot and made the playoffs.

[Rick Bucher]

He is a, he is a quarterback. A pocket quarterback.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's in that quarterback room. Okay. I wonder if they targeted Kenny Pickett specifically because he's tailored to their offense.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, but I don't think Pickett. I think Shador is better than Pickett.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't disagree with you, but by a long shot we would say Desean Watson's better than Joe Flacco. Like 80, 40 year old Joe Flacco.

[Rick Bucher]

So Stefanski likes pocket guys.

[Jason McIntyre]

He also likes guys who don't really make mistakes. Now Flacco made a lot of them in the playoff loss, but he got them there with an amazing run to end the season. I think this is a big uphill climb for Sudur Sandra. A big one because remember if he met with the Browns and was all arrogant and cocky and they were like, no thanks. That's another hurdle you got when you get into the quarterback room with five other guys. Colin, this is not going to be easy for Shador. I think you need to lower expectations just a little bit.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, I think he's a, I think he is a, at worst a mid second round quarterback.

[Jason McIntyre]

I would agree.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, I mean I, if you didn't like him, that's okay. But you can't tell me he's a fifth round.

[Jason McIntyre]

But you're talking about the football player Shador. What about all the other stuff that clearly matters?

[Rick Bucher]

Well, it matters pre draft, but once you get in the league and can spin it, it matters a lot less.

[Jason McIntyre]

What If Shedeur says, hey, I'm moving to Cleveland, I don't know nobody there. I want my boys to come with me. I need my crew.

[Rick Bucher]

What?

[Jason McIntyre]

Really?

[Rick Bucher]

They're not in the huddle?

[Jason McIntyre]

No.

[Rick Bucher]

But I'll tell you something. I always told my kids this. I said strangely to my kids, your grades in high school matter more than your grades in college. I always told my kids, work your ass off in high school, in college, go to a few parties.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Have fun.

[Rick Bucher]

Okay. In the NFL, your attitude and how you present yourself is actually more important up to the draft if you can spin it and play in the NFL. Bottom line is if you're winning games in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers is getting another look. Jay Cutler got multiple look.

[Jason McIntyre]

Let me quickly remind you, Johnny Manziel was a party animal at Texas A and M. Gets to the NFL and as a rookie through a keg party one Friday night during the season. And then they were trying to reach.

[Rick Bucher]

Him and he was in the league, didn't have him on their draft board.

[Jason McIntyre]

I. I wonder if there's some of that Shador. Oh, I think there was similarities with Manziel. Not partying, but yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

See you tomorrow.

[Colin Cowherd]

Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost every anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

[Jason McIntyre]

Time is precious and so are our pets.

[Chris Broussard]

So time with our pets is extra precious.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24.

[Chris Broussard]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Chris Broussard]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments. And shipping is always free.

[Chris Broussard]

With Dutch, you'll get more time with.

[Jason McIntyre]

Your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Rick Bucher]

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss his career and reminisce about old times. We were still in that place of like, what will this experience become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time. Listen to Dos amigos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.