Joe and Jada - AZ talks ‘Doe or Die 3,’ legacy of ‘Illmatic,’ Jay-Z vs. Nas era & shady hip hop industry stories

Summary

Podcast Summary: Joe and Jada - AZ talks ‘Doe or Die 3,’ legacy of ‘Illmatic,’ Jay-Z vs. Nas era & Shady Hip Hop Industry Stories

Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Episode Title: Joe and Jada - AZ talks ‘Doe or Die 3,’ legacy of ‘Illmatic,’ Jay-Z vs. Nas era & shady hip hop industry stories
Air Date: May 23, 2026
Guests/Hosts: Joe Budden, Jadakiss, AZ, Kevin Peace

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Overview

This dynamic episode features a lively and in-depth conversation between Joe Budden, Jadakiss, and legendary rapper AZ, with Kevin Peace chiming in. The trio covers a spectrum of topics: AZ’s highly anticipated “Doe or Die 3” album, his partnership with Nas, his reflection on hip hop legacy, the business side of the music industry, stories from hip hop’s golden age, and industry pitfalls. The tone is warm, irreverent, and genuinely reverential towards AZ and his influence, punctuated by quotable moments and nostalgic recollections.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AZ’s “Doe or Die 3”: Craft, Timing, and Inspiration

• Completion of a Trilogy: AZ discusses the process behind “Doe or Die 3,” which marks 30 years since his debut. The project was inspired by both legacy and the response to his previous work.
  • Quote (AZ, 09:16): "I realized the 30th anniversary was coming. I was just gonna... put lyrics, the same lyrics with different beats... then it just started growing its own life."
• Staying True to Self: The hosts acknowledge AZ’s refusal to panders or chase trends, sparking a comparison to rock acts who carry their classic sound through decades.
  • Quote (Joe Budden, 07:57): “I feel like this album, you stood true to who you are. Me, I’m one of the older guys to sell drugs on my music, shoot your moms, I don’t give a fuck.”
• Sound & Collaboration: The importance of track selection and meaningful collaborations, notably the Nas reunion, is highlighted.
  • Quote (AZ, 09:56): “Felt good. Felt great. No. Feel like a reunion right there.”

Notable Moment

• AZ’s Reunion with Nas
  Timestamp: 10:31
  AZ recounts how Nas nudged him back into the scene:
  “He hit me with a text like, it’s now or never… he kept me with him on the shows, and we made it happen.”

2. Legacy, Loyalty, and Longevity in Hip Hop

• AZ’s Place in Hip Hop: Joe Budden puts AZ in the pantheon of “hip hop’s pyramids,” acknowledging his impact and skill.
  • Quote (Joe Budden, 06:37): “There was a genre created by oppressed people. It was called hip hop music. And they gonna talk about that Illmatic, and they gonna talk about AZ.”
• Loyalty Amongst Peers: The importance of loyalty and camaraderie in the industry is celebrated, with shout-outs to Nas and Diggin’ in the Crates (DITC).
  • Quote (Joe Budden, 18:35): “Nas is lucky, right? Because there ain’t too many people you could sit across the chair from that you started with… to have loyalty is fucking priceless."
• Legacy vs. Money: Jadakiss and AZ discuss the real value of legacy over financial gain.
  • Quote (AZ, 20:39): “Some people go for the money. I take legacy. You can pass that down. That’s family. That’s everything.”

3. The Ever-Changing Music Business & Going Independent

• Ownership & Mastery: AZ, early to independence, reflects on owning his masters and benefiting from partnership deals vs. traditional label deals.
  • Quote (AZ, 17:41): “So you own your own Master. Indeed.”
• The Industry Trap: Joe Budden and Jadakiss provide candid insights into exploitative industry practices.
  • Quote (Joe Budden, 48:00): “They rock all over again. Whatever we got robbed for, they got fresh getting robbed… the gimmick is to sign young black men and Latino men… put you in debt.”
• The Power of Independence: Independent releases are framed as not only more lucrative but more empowering.
  • Quote (Joe Budden, 54:23): "So you go on a major, you sell 2 million records, [but] go independent, you sell gold... they giving you seven dollars, you made three and a half M's."

Notable Segment

Real Talk about Royalties & the IRS (22:22–27:03)
Joe Budden narrates a vivid story about tax troubles to illustrate the need to “make money when you don’t even need it.”

4. Musical Influence, Evolution, and Collaboration

• Illmatic’s Impact: Extensive discussion about the influence of Nas’ “Illmatic,” with AZ revealing how his opportunity on the album came about.
  • Quote (AZ, 61:22): “I think halfway through Illmatic, he invited me to the studio. I went there. Just a fly on the wall and Life’s a Bitch wasn’t even premeditated. That just happened.”
• Classic vs. Current: AZ admits to listening mostly to classic hip hop, though he respects current battle rappers.
  • Quote (AZ, 32:14): “I’m listening to the classics… ain’t too many young cats that move me like that… but the battle rap cats get busy.”
• Creative Process: AZ and Jadakiss discuss the importance of working with contemporaries rather than chasing chart placements.
  • Quote (Jadakiss, 47:33): “As long as we stick to the script and work with our contemporaries, I think more beautiful things can come out of that.”

5. Historic Hip Hop Stories & Unfiltered Truths

• Golden Era Tales: Anecdotes from the '90s and early 2000s, including behind-the-scenes at videos, the tunnel, infamous club nights, and working with icons like Foxy Brown and Big Pun.
  • Quote (Joe Budden, 73:27): “Pun would go in there with millions of dollars in jewelry and a robe on… with boxers under in the middle of the tub bottom… with a robe on and chancletas.”
• Bridging Jay-Z and Nas: AZ played a crucial role in early connections among giants before their feud made headlines.
  • Quote (AZ, 75:59): "I knew Jay from high school… I was there at the video, at the round table. Nas, Jay… they was cool. But, you know, shit happens."

6. AZ’s Artistic Perspective & Evolution

• Approach to Timelessness: AZ embraces the philosophy of providing what’s needed, then “hibernating” until the culture demands his sound again.
  • Quote (Jadakiss, 39:46): “You give them a little bit of that blue magic, get them itching and nodding… disappear and come back.”
• Influence of Icons: AZ acknowledges Rakim, Kane, and G Rap as formative influences on his lyrical style.
  • Quote (AZ, 59:56): “Rakim broke my… Rakim, Kane warmed it up. G Rap turned my dad… those are my favorites.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On Loyalty and Legacy

• Jadakiss (20:53): “You going on the European tour?”
• AZ: “Can’t wait.”

On the Business:

• Joe Budden (48:48): "Let me tell you. I have a double platinum album that I still haven't recouped from for 20 years. Then I put out an independent album where I sell a hundred thousand records and make a million dollars off it."

On Craft:

• AZ (61:22): “[Illmatic]… I was just there supporting. Shit just happened.”

On Influence:

• Joe Budden (06:37): “You in the pyramid of hip hop.”

On Survival and Style:

• AZ (12:28): “I’m out the way. Yeah, try to stay out the way.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• AZ’s Influence & Legacy: 06:37–07:22
• Process Behind Doe or Die 3: 09:16–10:46
• Reunion with Nas: 10:28–11:42
• Owning Your Masters and Industry Realities: 17:41–19:00, 22:22–27:03
• Legacy vs. Money, Going Independent: 20:39–20:53, 48:00–54:23
• Current vs. Classic Hip Hop Listening: 32:01–32:49
• Best Verse and Influences: 58:35–60:07
• Connection to Nas and Illmatic Stories: 60:40–63:48
• Working with Foxy Brown, Prodigy, and Big Pun: 70:02–74:07
• Jay-Z and Nas Era Bridging: 75:27–77:01

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Closing Thoughts

The episode is a celebration of hip hop authenticity, with AZ receiving his flowers from two of the culture’s other greats. The hosts blend humor, respect, and personal anecdotes, creating a portrait of AZ as an artist who’s managed to stay relevant and respected without compromise.

Final endorsement (Joe Budden, 77:10):
“Anybody. Uniqueness, anybody in the fucking planet Earth, if you love real hip hop, if you love lyrics, you love beats. Nothing is fucking with AZ’s album right now. It’s untouchable.”

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For anyone passionate about hip hop’s roots, industry lore, and the enduring importance of real artistry and loyalty, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

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[Daniel Cormier]

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[Kelpen]

Hey everyone, it's Kelpen. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast Hearsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to earsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Budden]

Music was learn from bars of life for big just four just give me

[AZ]

four bars let me hear Joe no

[Joe Budden]

no no I everything up I up my own you don't want me life in actuality who's the baddest person status tender thy and my mentality is money orientated what let's go. Crap.

[Jadakiss]

That's the closest he got to them just over I'm proud of you.

[Joe Budden]

It's the dawn the guard all this shit right here Bow down nigga Joe

[Jadakiss]

crack you know who it is your boy Jada. This the Joe and Jada show Every show legendary every show iconic and we got the pressure on, and we gonna continue on stepping on your esophaguses.

[Joe Budden]

Yo, they said, your man Bill Barr said, nobody want beef with us. Bill Burke, he said, yo, you beefing with. No, you beefing with Air Joe.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah, that's you.

[Joe Budden]

No, I watched that episode. The said, yo, you beefing with yo Joe. He said, joe, why you come in the podcast looking for people on the podcast? He said, nobody got beef with you. I said, yo, man, I just. That's it. I'm. I'm about to looking for smoking smoke. I need some.

[Jadakiss]

Check it out, man. When you think of today's guest, he's another good friend of ours. And don't let that go over your head. Cause I know you want to be a part of and amongst the elite, but you can't. You think of today's guest, you think what it truly means to be an emcee. Know what I mean? Not just someone who raps, but someone who commands the craft. Think about what I'm telling y' all now. From being the first voice you heard on one of the greatest albums ever created of all time, the greatest album of time, to carving out a solo legacy that stands on his own without question. If you know, you know this man has never had to chase anything. Because everything came to him through sheer skill and discipline. The street certified them. Hip hop crowned him. He's back with doe or die 3. One of the most underrated, one of

[AZ]

the most smoothest,

[Jadakiss]

One who knows how to get low, come back, get the dove, then get low again.

[Joe Budden]

He specializes in that talk slow for the niggas in the back.

[Jadakiss]

Completing the trilogy that only a real one could finish. Put some respect on his name, ladies and gentlemen. Az's in the house.

[Kevin Peace]

Beautiful intro, man.

[AZ]

Beautiful intro. Appreciate it.

[Jadakiss]

Appreciate you for coming to the realness.

[AZ]

Yes.

[Joe Budden]

So what KISS is alluding to? I'm sorry for cutting you off.

[Jadakiss]

No, no, go ahead, brother. You can do a very good job.

[Joe Budden]

This platform is tailor made for guys like you.

[Jadakiss]

I was just telling them that's what's it.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, this shit is tailor made. You know, a lot of these other shock jocks and all that, they with the bullshit, the real stops here. It gets respected. So you looking at AZ went to four podcasts. I know your team telling you to promote. They gonna stop at this one, say, yo, what the fuck? Joe Crack and KISS top five got to say about the God, az. This is where hip hop stops. And it's tailor made for you. I'm going to tell you right Now I love everybody. It's not too many people. I'm honored to have on the platform. I'm truly honored to have you on here. When he's explaining, there's just no way to explain it, right? So, say 2,000 years from now, we don't know if the aliens is here or something, but they gonna come down and say there was a genre created by oppressed people. It was called hip hop music. And they gonna talk about that illmatic, and they gonna talk about az.

[AZ]

That's real.

[Joe Budden]

That's how big this is. So I'm overstanding your presence and what you have done for hip hop. It's unexplainable as shit. Like, you know how we go and look at the pyramids and shit like that? You in the pyramid of hip hop.

[AZ]

That's a lot right there. That's a lot.

[Joe Budden]

I'm telling you the truth. I know what the fuck I'm talking about. You know what I'm saying? You in the fucking pyramid, man. You like, you know, that's fucking az, you know, there's no way to explain this. There's no way to define you. That's real on a rap level, because you was light years ahead of everybody since day one, since we heard you. And by the way, this album, this shit, phenomenal.

[AZ]

Thank you.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, I peeped it last night, and I peeped it first thing this morning. This album right here is done perfect. There's a lot of ways you could take it, you know what I mean? So you say. There's a huge Jay Z interview where he was saying, you know, older guys need to be talking about older shit, this and this and that or whatever the case. I feel like this album, you stood true to who you are. Me, I'm one of the older guys to sell drugs on my music shoot. Your mom's all, I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? I'm not acting my age. I don't.

[AZ]

That's real.

[Joe Budden]

I'm not acting my age. But I understand what he said. And the thing that's so perfect about this album, you think of rock groups, YouTube, Journey, everybody. When you buy they shit, it sound like you at that same concert in Woodstock or something like that. When I get your album, this one right here, that's what I want to hear AZ did. That shit was perfection.

[AZ]

Appreciate you.

[Joe Budden]

Every joint on there felt like, all right, I'm with az. Yeah, this, that, that shit crazy right there. Like I told my wife, I said, get ready. We gonna drive in the Car to this shit when I get back home. Cause this shit feel too good.

[AZ]

I got on the sound system, I

[Joe Budden]

wanna hear this shit in the car, driving around. This shit is a vibe from A to Z. So salute on that. Cause everybody can't. You know, a lot of our icons and pioneers fell off when they got our age. Let's just keep it a buck. You definitely ain't lose one flow, one bar, no nothing. Your shit is a one. How did you come together with doing this album like this to perfection? What made you say, yo, I'm picking these beats, I'm gonna do this?

[AZ]

I mean, I didn't think I was gonna get the response like that. Not from you, per se, or from the peoples. But I was working on the album prior. And then I realized the 30th anniversary was coming. I was just gonna, you know, put lyrics, the same lyrics with different beats. I started that. I reached out to Kiss. Appreciate you came through on Give Me Yours with Esco. He did that. I did whole happy Jackie. And then it just started growing his own life, you know what I mean? And I just. I stepped into that zone right there.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, man, that Jackie is right. The beats, the selection is crazy that Nas gave you one.

[AZ]

Ah, yes, Esco, yes. I needed that. Felt good. Felt great. No, Feel like a reunion right there.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, yeah, but I've been seeing the reunion. I got Instagram. Like, I've been. Yeah, right, right. It's like, we know that's your man forever, but lately I don't know if you got little casino money or something. You all in the pics. I'm like, yo, what's up? Is it. What's going on? The resurgence. I don't know what's going on. I see. I love it.

[AZ]

He like, you gotta get out the house, man. Come on, let's go.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, he right.

[AZ]

Yeah, yeah, he right. It was time. He hit me with a text like, it's now or never. That was last year. And the end of last year, I was like, okay. I didn't know what that meant. But, you know, he kept me with him on the shows, and we made it happen.

[Joe Budden]

How proud are you of Nas? I don't know if n are asking you that same question everywhere you go, but me, I follow the money. Joe Crack, all about the money. And that money trail right now is phenomenal. So how proud are you when you, you know, Queensbridge projects.

[AZ]

I'm inspired.

[Joe Budden]

Birth niggas is eating four chicken wing French fries now. Your man building casinos and shit. What's that? Like, for you to see with your own eyes and be in the inner circle.

[AZ]

Yeah, I'm inspired because I remember the conversations of. I just want to put an album out, one album. Then from there, like, I'm gonna go platinum one time. Oh, I just want one mansion. Now we here. I seen it, you know, and he moving faster than I. You know, I was moving. I'm just peeping his style. So when I hit a pothole, I stepped back. He kept going. So that's inspiration all day.

[Joe Budden]

You know, you just a fly nigga. You know, we got names for niggas like you, you know what I'm saying? I never seen you without a fresh cut, without a fly fit, driving whatever's new, minding your fucking business in the supermarket is niggas like you, you know what I'm saying? They're very rare.

[Jadakiss]

That's fact.

[Joe Budden]

Nah, it's almost like met the man in Belly. Remember how he come through with the average? I'm flying from state to state. You one of them niggas in real life.

[Jadakiss]

That's a fact. That's a fact.

[AZ]

Appreciate it.

[Joe Budden]

No, you one of them. I don't never gotta worry about az. Every time I ever bump into him, he got the new foreign. He fly your crack. What's up, my nigga?

[Jadakiss]

Yo, smooth and move.

[AZ]

I'm out the way. Yeah, try to stay out the way.

[Joe Budden]

That's impressive. Yeah, because we seen some of the greatest of the greats, some of the niggas we knew. I seen a nigga I knew beat the feds four time. He was the realest nigga I ever seen in my life. Get on Instagram. And, man, he got caught up in the Suck my dick. Fuck you. Like, he was like. He's responding to. And I'm like, damn. He lost a little strike from, like, being an everlasting legend of life. I'm like, damn, man. That nigga, he wasn't ready for the young Instagram trolls and all that. You never got into that shit.

[AZ]

I watched it. I'm not gonna get it, but I watched him afar. Like you should, right? Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

So you know what's going on. You just like, I see it.

[AZ]

Yeah, I see it. I see the shit, man.

[Joe Budden]

It ain't for everybody, but your shit is like, you know what I'm saying? It's smooth. You mind your business. You out the way. You come out when you want to do, you know, right? Cause we don't. We don't know. Right? We all kids. We grew up with nothing. And I don't know about kids, but I'm. I still ain't got what I want. And I still keep working for it, working towards it. Do you know how legendary like, do you. Does it sink into you when we say shit like yo legendary pyramid?

[AZ]

Nah, I don't sink in. Nah, not at all. It don't.

[Joe Budden]

It's crazy.

[AZ]

Stay focused. Stay away from the conversation. I don't talk that much, so y' all gotta talk. I don't talk that I need it.

[Jadakiss]

He won't stop. Let him.

[Joe Budden]

I'll try to let you speak. Just throwing tomatoes at me. Yo. Let the God speak. Shut the up Joe Crack. That's in Memphis, that's in Compton, that's in New York. They already on me already. Yo, yo. Won't let the God speak.

[AZ]

What the.

[Joe Budden]

My. Like you already know when it's a real moment. You need a real bottle. That's why we rock with 1800 tequila. These people been making tequila for 11 generations. That's a legacy. That's the OG status. They were the first to introduce Anejo. Set the standard before most of these brands even existed.

[Jadakiss]

And you could taste the difference. For real. The 1800 Cristilino and Resposado is what we've been on lately. Smooth, clean, elevated, no rough edges. Just a premium pour that speaks for itself. You know when something is just built, right? That's what this is.

[Joe Budden]

Real talk. That's just what it is. It's always around for the best nights, the wins, the celebrations. Then remember that night's stories.

[Jadakiss]

Whether you're keeping it low key with the crew or you pull up to something big. 1800 fits every segment. It ain't trying too hard. It just is that 1800 tequila, real legacy. Real smooth. That's the move.

[Joe Budden]

Pow. Pow.

[Jadakiss]

The original Dog dog came out 1995. What made you say it was time now? It just fell right off.

[AZ]

It was 30 years later. I just got in the game. Like, what's going on? I didn't know what was going on.

[Jadakiss]

It was new to everybody.

[AZ]

That life's a bitch verse got me into, got me to deal. And from there I was new to it, you know what I mean? And I learned from there.

[Joe Budden]

Music was learned from there. Four bars of Life for bitch. Just four. Just give me four bars.

[AZ]

Let me hear Joe.

[Joe Budden]

No, no, no. I. Everything up. You talking to the wrong. I up my own.

[Jadakiss]

But you don't.

[Joe Budden]

Life in actuality. Fuck. Who's the baddest person? Status, tender salary. And my mentality is money orientated.

[AZ]

What?

[Jadakiss]

Let's Go.

[Joe Budden]

Crap.

[Jadakiss]

That's the closest he got to them. Just so. I'm proud of you, man.

[Joe Budden]

That shit. Damn, boy. That's all Master Pill.

[Jadakiss]

You got you this project tied to Master Pill.

[AZ]

Oh, yeah. Quiet Money, Music. Master Pill.

[Jadakiss]

I knew, I knew it was.

[AZ]

Yeah, it was a partnership, but I knew it was, you know, Nas. Nas home. It felt good. Like I said, like a reunion. It was easy.

[Jadakiss]

No doubt. Yeah, I see what's going on over there at Mass Appeal.

[AZ]

Oh yeah, you trying to do everything.

[Joe Budden]

What the that mean? Why you always trying to say some you and you trying to see what's going.

[Jadakiss]

Are you. Do your eyes work?

[Joe Budden]

No.

[Jadakiss]

Are you seeing what's going on?

[Joe Budden]

That's the. That's the. Yo, we can talk, perhaps.

[Jadakiss]

They called me already. I don't. You know, they called me. Woo.

[Joe Budden]

That's the perfect fit.

[Jadakiss]

They doing shit over there.

[Joe Budden]

They are.

[Jadakiss]

They understand our texture and what kind of music that we do.

[AZ]

And they doing partnership. They ain't signing nobody. It's not like you're getting signed. You know what I mean?

[Joe Budden]

It's like a distribution.

[AZ]

Right, Right.

[Joe Budden]

So you own your own Master True.

[AZ]

Indeed.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's the best bet right now anyway, you know what I'm saying?

[AZ]

It's the only way right now.

[Joe Budden]

People hold like, you know, this industry's a terrible industry. So it's like when you see Salt and Pepper fighting for their masters, you see this shit. 30 year pushing, everybody fighting for they shit. It's like. It's like slavery all over again. So the only way to be is your own boss, especially somebody like you. We going on the 30 year anniversary. You don't need no label for nothing.

[Jadakiss]

Gotta be all partnerships.

[AZ]

But I've been independent like 04 in Koch, so wasn't doing that much, but had to keep it rolling. And he's seen it like, listen, here's the life. Rest, come on.

[Jadakiss]

No doubt.

[Joe Budden]

Well, you deserve that, you know, you deserve everything. To be honest with you, you know, it ain't too many. Nas is lucky, right? Because there ain't too many people you could sit across the chair from that you started with. You know what I mean? And you can look at them and know their true intentions and know like, yo, we here now. But that's my man. A one since day one. And he's loyal like a motherfucker that's in this world, in this life, to have loyalty is fucking priceless. And let me tell you something, it don't always work. I got a phone call Today, driving down here, one of my mans was like, one of my brothers, like a Nas and you, he was like, yo, something about to come. I need you to stand firm by my. I said, I thought we was over this shit. Nigga, we 50 something. He like, nah, I need you stand firm, nigga. In the pink. Remember when you had this beef? Remember when you had that? I said, yo, you ain't even gotta explain. That's where we're going. You want me to be in the paint with you? I'm gonna be in the paint. You don't never gotta ask. I've been in the paint with you in physical life. You thinking rap life? I ain't gonna be in the paint with you. I'm just like, you know. But it's a luxury, you know what I'm saying? To have that loyalty going, man. Shout out. Digging in the crates. My nigga. Diamond D. Finesse. All of them for, you know, putting me on, putting me in the game and always being the same. That's hard. I know the locks got that.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

You know what I mean? But I got that too, with digging in the crates now. Terrorist car. We had a whole bunch of fucking Benedict Arnold,

[AZ]

nigga.

[Joe Budden]

Come rob the nigga. I'm doing a song with a. Like, yo, my man, let me holler at you for a second. You see that watch? What kind of watch is that? Yo, my man, like Juris call scandalous. Digging in the crates. We all been a. Okay.

[Jadakiss]

You know how important is legacy and longevity?

[AZ]

That's everything, man. I mean, the work you put in, that lasts a lifetime. Legacy is everything. That's why I feel everybody keep going. Some people go for the money. I take legacy. You can pass that down. That's family. That's everything.

[Jadakiss]

You going on the European tour.

[AZ]

Can't wait.

[Jadakiss]

So you're going to some mean spots. Dublin, Paris, London, Berlin.

[AZ]

They love hip hop.

[Jadakiss]

Stockholm. Nice bags over there, too. Nice bags over the water. You wanna do a US tour?

[AZ]

Can't wait for that neither.

[Joe Budden]

Let me ask you something. How do you do it right? Like, so do you make a. You go out, you make a pile of money, and you live off this money till you need some more money? Cause no, no, there's different techniques teaching niggas out there.

[AZ]

Yeah, that's.

[Joe Budden]

That's your game plan, right?

[AZ]

Right.

[Joe Budden]

But Ross, quarter seizure on the fucking airplane. And I know for a fact that that very next day, he was in Paris performing.

[AZ]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Budden]

He go for every bag under the sun. You different. You, like. You get your bag up Cruise control, need a new bag.

[AZ]

Hit it right on the head. That's it. That's it.

[Joe Budden]

That way you have some type of normal life. You watch Family Feud and shit.

[AZ]

He right.

[Kevin Peace]

He fucking right.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, you right.

[AZ]

All of that.

[Jadakiss]

That's a nice. That's a nice formula, though. Go load up, get low.

[AZ]

I think. Hold up. I think once you pass a certain number, you can't really stop and do that. You can pass the 20, 30m. You can't. You know what I mean? I don't know about 20, 30.

[Joe Budden]

I ain't never had it. But let me tell you something. You know what happened to me? I used to do it like you.

[AZ]

Right, right.

[Joe Budden]

So one of the biggest mistakes and one of the greatest mistakes is it's good and bad was I moved to Miami. So we party seven days a week out there. And so, you know, all you do in Miami is you catch the suntan in the daytime. At night, watch this popping spot, we pulling up. So I would go on tour, get a bag, and for like, three, four months, I'd just be in Miami, eating dinner. Party. And then when I caught the tax problem, that's when I realized, you gotta make money when you. At least for me, I gotta make money when I don't even need it. I gotta go get money because them niggas, when I tell you you got. Say Fat Joe was worth $50, they threw the dice, the IRS, and that shit landed on $49.50, my nigga. I don't know how they came up with the number saying, you are officially dead broke. My. Like, you ain't got nothing no more. I'm like, holy shit. So that's why I came out here and I was like, yo, I gotta. I gotta do the Rick Ross. I gotta. I gotta go and go and go. Because I never know when these niggas gonna throw a curveball on me. Right? You know what I'm saying? So that's. That's. I love your philosophy more, but they stung me. The beast stung me.

[AZ]

But that made you do that, right? Yes. Okay.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah. That made me feel like I ain't got enough to you.

[AZ]

Right, right, right.

[Joe Budden]

Looking at M's in your. At least for me, come from the projects, Free Trees, Welfare, Face to face, everything you can, every bum shit you ever could think of, that's me. If I'm looking for like 10 years at EMS in the bank, I'm thinking I'm rich. Like, I'm like, yo, I'm good. I'm straight. Them niggas Came and said, yo, you know what we need? They even told me about money I ain't know I had. Niggas said, yo, we saw something in it. When I first got money back in the day, the accountant I had at the time made me do like a retirement account. Like Wells farked. I swear to God, I didn't know about this. The niggas came back and said, oh, and we found the retirement funding well formed. You might want to give us that, too. I was like, retirement? I looked, I said, like a half a million. We could use that, sir. We could use that one. You won't have to sell the art or your house. We could use that right there. I was like, yo, them niggas was violating me. The IRS nigga walked my house. So let me tell you something. In America, we got so many. It's like we living a lot. Well, the UFOs just came out yesterday. Real UFOs. And I know everybody's scared to death. They not try to talk about it. The real aliens is outside, and the government is saying, congratulations. They outside. Don't be mad. Don't be mad if you see a diddy bopping down 125th. Cause it might happen. They outside. They can't control the quiet. They can't control that no more. No, my. The Pentagon put that out. The United States government.

[Jadakiss]

Well, Whoopi, do you believe everything the Pentagon put up?

[Joe Budden]

It's okay. You don't want to believe. I'm just saying, niggas don't want to believe because they outside, right? So why did I go there? What was I saying before that? Who's listening, huh? Yeah, you know, you think you own your house. Them was violating me just walking through my house. Yo, this painting's about 20,000. Romeo Britto. Hey, this couch from Chanel.

[AZ]

Wow.

[Joe Budden]

You could probably get 15 just walking through my crib.

[Jadakiss]

Crisp fox.

[Joe Budden]

Yes.

[AZ]

That's crazy.

[Joe Budden]

What happens? I came home, I bought me a Benz, a 500. The like, I don't know if the government's gonna be happy with you buying the 500 Benz when you owe him all this money. I was like, yo, that shit is a horrible feeling. When you are your own boss or entrepreneur or this. You start feeling like less of a man out that bitch, you know? They definitely walked in my crib without permission. Diddy bop through my shit was price tagging, furs, all type. Might have one big sale, the Fat Joe sale. I'm like, yo, this shit. So that taught me to, like, work when I ain't gotta work. I just got to keep going cuz could throw you a wild card any day.

[Kelpen]

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[Daniel Cormier]

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[Jadakiss]

What you listening to right now? What you like out of the new? Or do you say new?

[Joe Budden]

Don't say new.

[Jadakiss]

They didn't come out when he came out. When he came out. It's new current.

[AZ]

You got new artists in media.

[Jadakiss]

You got to say current. What do you like? Currently, that's out.

[AZ]

I'm listening to the classics. I listen. You know the Chef Womb Locks regular, no doubt.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah, same here.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah. You're not.

[AZ]

Ain't too many. Ain't too many young cats. That really.

[Joe Budden]

That move.

[AZ]

Move me like that. Like that. Now it's a few cats to get. Actually, the battle rap cats get busy. I like. I like them a lot.

[Jadakiss]

They be getting busy.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah. I can't do it, man. Fuck your mother. Suck my dick. I'll smack the shit out of your bitch right there. Her name's Margaret, and Margaret got by three. And, yo, I can't do that.

[AZ]

What you talking about?

[Joe Budden]

The battle rap cats. Battle rap. The they be doing. I'm like, margaret knows. She Johnny Jim and the God Supreme. He hit her with the mathematics. This like, yo, my got to force him this. And you standing there like, yeah, God, nice balls. It's like, hey, and what did we do to her? Hit her with the mathematics. God. Yeah. This like, nah, nigga. Like,

[Jadakiss]

get busy, man.

[Joe Budden]

Y' all listen to the right lyrical, but I can't stand there with them.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

Oh, I used to like the Head Ice. You remember Head Ice?

[AZ]

All right. He got busy.

[Jadakiss]

Maddie Ice.

[Joe Budden]

That N was like dead DMX for the battle rap that come out of nowhere.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

I be like, yo, this cold, man. This right here. He Ice had ice.

[AZ]

I wonder if I still doing it.

[Jadakiss]

I ain't seen him in a while.

[Joe Budden]

He used to be crushing. Yo, Head Ice was nice.

[Jadakiss]

Uniqueness. The new single with Mike and Keys. How. How did you come up with that?

[AZ]

Oh, man, that beat. That was it. It wasn't. No.

[Jadakiss]

As soon as you heard it, that was it.

[AZ]

No hook, nothing. That was it. Go.

[Jadakiss]

I like when I get.

[Joe Budden]

Are we gonna hear that?

[Jadakiss]

You can play Uniqueness.

[Joe Budden]

Exactly.

[Jadakiss]

Let's crank that joint, man. That's how you give it.

[Joe Budden]

Mikey is making a lot of noise, huh? In the production game. I seen Static Select. Yo, your album's incredible, bro. I'm telling you right now or die.

[Jadakiss]

Three, y'.

[Joe Budden]

All I like with all this album.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Jadakiss]

Shout out to Billy Dance. I'm on there, too.

[Joe Budden]

Fire. Yeah, you doing? I'm gonna send song. You gonna do something for me? You had everybody. Now I turned it up. Y' all kill me with the one more. I said, damn. I can't even get him on the song. The man right next to me I

[AZ]

got an album coming out of her y too.

[Joe Budden]

No.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's what I heard.

[Kevin Peace]

Yeah.

[Jadakiss]

Soon. As soon as the universe aligns itself.

[Kevin Peace]

Give the lights a little more crank. That feel like some Bobby.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, I like this one sight show

[Kevin Peace]

up and show out Sneaker hoarder relationship sinking in water two sons got chip wanted the daughter new guns bumping it my knees there at the altar.

[Joe Budden]

This album is crazy.

[Jadakiss]

My English. Come on.

[Joe Budden]

This album is crazy.

[Kevin Peace]

Sneaker hoarder relationship sinking in water Two sons got wanted a daughter new guns bumping it my knees there at the altar Bomb culture whole over still MC ultra who the vulture sipping bomb punch sunk in the sofa one blunt was on a hunt trying to jump in some choke chop Young soa soloist seeking asylum hitting sonics on my first album speaking in volumes peep how they w' n fashion trends keep me from styling Handsome thin super slim trying to sleep with the stallions Henny gallon no demis my pennies was piling far from friendly when you bent let's get your to the allen real sound and trying to leave alone wings and bones Pocket D with these phones I'm the king of the tones bring me my throne the lover Ian y God from Sutter in junior high you the lie when I stutter fly with the butters coi sweaters cop them in colors I'm not like the others nut buster cat boxes of buffers is over your boy sober sitting back 30 years older stare closer see the tears on my shoulders Distilling lost feelings need there will be for the healing from what I see I could never be a civilian with touching the millions who to trust Fooling with lust I have you doing everything but never doing enough Just food to the cut first Ghana then Bossawana It's a lot to ponder Travel back right after Kwanzaa quick for monda life short visit resources spirits and sports how you move niver your thoughts Message is caught unwrapped place in my lap the greatest is back tell the haters make me a plaque 30 billion strings predicted we ain't even mixing it's that next level Azxy race poet extraordinaire Kevin Peace since day one my world always my bomb regardless the home of what rather unique I travel through beats correlate with crime Most my kind is deceased V for the streets never those that line up their peeps it's the ones who will is weak and thirst knowledge and seek we civil read through riddles Court cases lead to acquittals the chiseled in our Presence they scribble roses scribble if action ain't applied to assist was fly and this from the mix I survived the abyss highly equipped the coat my nigg did his bit on a boat out of her wig his wiz lit him some dope he home all he wanted fair God are some foams A low nitted yank fitted and bugaby cologne I hit him, don't stop I spin the block and get him Just heard the word that his ops got with him gave him his wings A few niggas keep it a beam he was one do a die Guess what? We all get a run. More money, more murder. Life as we know it. Not how it should be but it's the laws of nature. Do or die. Three decades and counting.

[Joe Budden]

You know what's crazy? That's not the best on the album. Yo, when I tell you the album is so.

[Jadakiss]

That right there crazy.

[Joe Budden]

My.

[Jadakiss]

The world need not. None of that sound effects don't want to get.

[AZ]

But the way the sonics change, I feel like, you know, they're gonna embrace it like that.

[Joe Budden]

We embrace it. We gonna make them embrace destination. All these other.

[Jadakiss]

We gotta make them embrace it.

[Joe Budden]

You did 10 interviews. Should have just came in here to cover. Everybody is trash they flabby and sick My. Uni, this right here album.

[AZ]

I wanted Jay to join one here with him. It just as close as we gonna get here.

[Jadakiss]

We gonna play, we can shoot. I don't like that either. You know you can get me for the video. I ain't one of them people that do a song with you and then don't do the video or like, did this song for free. And I need 2.72 million to do this. That's like, what the is wrong with you? Hold on, I gotta say something. Because in this game, you got to reinvent yourself, right? No, but you don't have to because you never. You don't have to reinvent yourself.

[AZ]

Right? Right.

[Jadakiss]

It's like you spoon feed them just enough, then you hibernate and come back with, they need that fix again. You keep it. Yeah, you keep the fix. You keep them needing to fix. Is it a secret to your method of madness?

[AZ]

You know what that might be? That might be the.

[Jadakiss]

That's.

[AZ]

I mean, I don't do it intentionally. That's how I pe, you know, from

[Jadakiss]

the outside looking in. You give him a little bit of that blue magic, get him 30, get him itching and nodding, you know, disappear and come back.

[Joe Budden]

This album is going to spark a lot of lucky. It Ain't Thanksgiving. Because this spark, is this going to spark a lot of arguments between pops and they sons and all that gonna come with the flibbity, ribbity.

[Jadakiss]

Hold up, my son.

[Joe Budden]

What this shit supposed to sound like? Stepped out, God came back.

[Jadakiss]

He love this right here. I ra right?

[Joe Budden]

This gonna be beef.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah, he knows. He know Thanksgiving.

[Joe Budden]

My like it be a fan. He'd be throwing turkey bones like politics right now. Throwing shit out of any nigga that know real hip hop, who came up from the cloth, who love real hip hop. This album is a gem.

[Jadakiss]

Let me get the one with me

[AZ]

and A on there.

[Joe Budden]

That's not the best one either. How about that?

[Jadakiss]

It's the whole project, man.

[Joe Budden]

Beyond serious.

[Jadakiss]

That right there. You dealing with so much garbage in

[Joe Budden]

the world right now was so cr. This is crazy. That with Nas is crazy. That Jackie song, safe to say it's a crazy project.

[Jadakiss]

It's okay. I know it's hard to say it because it's so much garbage, but this is a solid ass project.

[Joe Budden]

Play that word up.

[Jadakiss]

Hey, A always got the nerve to ask for something. I told him, let's reverse the situation this time and do it like this. You know what I'm saying? Give me ah, just give me break that man. Give me what you can't get back. What's the deal y' all pull the

[Kevin Peace]

stay down, let's count this money.

[Jadakiss]

Why don't you give me the world? Give me what you can't get back. You know we too thorough.

[Kevin Peace]

Champagne cheers Louie wears over the years in full length mink ear muffs over my ears knowing it's near near brushes moments of fear for them Jesus phones Just know you on your own when you there alone in my square sitting smiling, showing veneers, reminiscing the Mac spitting at me and bones in the stairs homie I'm here escaped it 88 first with them aces from crack hit nigga that was the Matrix the track sacred rap change When I entered the game half I entertainer of a half I explain it's in my name the beginning that never began never van rolling dice got a hell of a hand the melody man Milk prep on the celery plan with a few extra queens my

[Jadakiss]

two step on the back but I

[Kevin Peace]

be extra queens fatten the man hand ain't no capping in between Give me big cubers and diamond rings Give me,

[Jadakiss]

give me what you can't get back. What's the deal, y'? All Give me James, why don't you give me the the world give me what you can't get yo, we gotta

[Kevin Peace]

shoot this early demise Terry. Y' all knowing this co's most barely abide I rarely advise the fiends and no scary inside intervene between killers that nearly collide Clearly I'm live, got a vibe can't compare me to size certified hood ties had to bury my prize since 70 wise of prices with Aquarius side never shisty those love to hear that I die my ever arrive we back real of Venus is packed presence felt never seen his attack Meanwhile we rap, we rebels transform the God from devils is in the stars of each in the largest level Scars are settled in debt pay upon a liver regret love my set we individually rep envision the best believe it, you see it first before you achieve it with on the ball Let the law refereeing give

[Jadakiss]

me, just give me for the NYC Give me what you get back what's the deal? Y' all give me why don't you give me the world? Give me what you can't get back.

[Kevin Peace]

You know we too thorough salute the neutral rule.

[AZ]

Yeah, that's nice.

[Kevin Peace]

Hella Philly, Christian CBA.

[Joe Budden]

It's like 95 all over again. Let's go.

[AZ]

That was nice. Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

You know, y' all keep 95. You know.

[Jadakiss]

Well, you ain't know I did that.

[Joe Budden]

I know you did that.

[Jadakiss]

I listened to Kaden. Ain't know.

[Joe Budden]

Okay. He snuck that one in.

[AZ]

That motherfucker, huh?

[Joe Budden]

That's how you do. The other day, I was in the studio and Diamond D sent me a joint, and I snuck it in before everybody got in the studio. I was like the first nigga there. I said, yo, throw this up.

[Jadakiss]

Knocked it out. Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

I mean, nobody knows. They know now, but I mean, like, when I threw it up in the studio, nobody was there yet, so I got that one out the way. That's one of those. You did that shit right quick. It made you feel like. What made you feel like that?

[Jadakiss]

I booked that. I booked it. Nobody was there but me and the engineer.

[Joe Budden]

But what made you feel like coming up with that hook?

[Jadakiss]

No, that's the hook he already had.

[Joe Budden]

I know. So what made you say I' ma do it over?

[Jadakiss]

When royalty calls, you do it. You the only one who act like I don't answer when.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, he don't. With the God like that, he can't

[Jadakiss]

even reach the flag. Cause it's so. He lying so much.

[Joe Budden]

The flaggy, kidding reach, yo. Say, you know what? It's crazy, yo. He's. Wow. Like Jadakiss is Wild. Let me tell you something. Y' all think Kiss is cool. Wow.

[Jadakiss]

I'm cool.

[Joe Budden]

But let me tell you something, man, that is amazing. This album, I love it.

[Jadakiss]

It's gonna change. This is gonna change. This is gonna change your bank account. Ah, it's gonna change. It's gonna change a lot of things because I got my man, Colombian John. He's like a. He drives, he does anything. I need somebody in my hood around my demographic. But I called him. I was doing fixing the sneaker room and I had to get rid of the boxes. I usually call him, give him a couple hundred to grab it. Soon as he get to the crib, though, AC out. I said, yeah, Columbia, usually it still works.

[Joe Budden]

A lot of you, a lot of OGs put some albums together and I support 1 million percent. And I like certain songs from they albums. The last one to do it the best is Billy Dance. Billy Dance. Y' all better check that out.

[Jadakiss]

I heard that.

[AZ]

That's nice, right?

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, and Naz came with it. Yo, here's the pure. The cocaine. I said, God damn, this just like because Billy Dan did some grown up. You on that album too.

[Jadakiss]

Hello, Hello.

[AZ]

And then I heard it was me.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, you got a lot of fluidity out there.

[Jadakiss]

What I think is missing and we need more of is our contemporaries making them kind of songs, you know what I mean? People get caught up with calling top people on the billboards. Whatever you hearing on the top eight or eight. Those ain't necessarily the people you make good music with, so long as you.

[Joe Budden]

Or make music for your audience.

[Jadakiss]

As long as we stick to the

[AZ]

script

[Jadakiss]

and work with our contemporaries, I think more beautiful things can come out of that. But you know, like you said before, people get a couple dollars, you get a new house, a new Ferrari. You start feeling like you gotta make songs.

[Joe Budden]

You know what? A lot of times it be like record company niggas wanna tell you they

[Jadakiss]

shouldn't be able to tell you that.

[Joe Budden]

Do a song with this guy. Yo, this would be fun.

[AZ]

Record label still signing up. People still signing the record label.

[Joe Budden]

They rock all over again. Whatever we got robbed for, they got fresh getting robbed.

[AZ]

Rapper.

[Joe Budden]

Wow, he's getting robbed. They won't. This is a jet. It's more worse now Genocidal my they blowing. But the whole gimmick is to sign young black men and Latino men that

[Jadakiss]

came from put you in debt.

[Joe Budden]

Throw them a little carrot, right? Yo, ain't never had none. They gave him a hundred thousand. These just singing their life away. Talented, doing the illest these is running it up 20, 30 million. This never he's in debt. So if they spend a hundred thousand on a video, they charge you 2 million on the video. You not them. Yo, I still haven't recouped. Let me tell you. I have a double platinum album that I still haven't recouped from for 20 years. Then I put out an independent album where I sell a hundred thousand records and make a million dollars off it.

[Jadakiss]

Did you ever listen, actually listen to the first line of why my song?

[Joe Budden]

Why the first line? Yeah, yeah, I know the ball, but I want you to say it. I'm a fuck it up. Why is the industry designers in debt? What?

[AZ]

That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Budden]

No, no, but it's true.

[AZ]

There's a why, why, why is the

[Jadakiss]

industry designed to keep the artists in debt? Only key word is the artist. Nobody else being dead.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, but. And so that don't never run. They never run out of broke.

[AZ]

Yeah, yeah, I see.

[Joe Budden]

They never run out of a talented younger.

[AZ]

They learn from our. And everybody else did this. Why would they still they catching them

[Joe Budden]

with a longer spoon. Some of them have like when you

[Jadakiss]

see everything you get when you see a trap, their hand is in the buck.

[AZ]

He's chilling, right?

[Jadakiss]

Travis doing this.

[Joe Budden]

Travis, you know there's some smart ones out there, right?

[AZ]

Right.

[Joe Budden]

You see them run it up.

[Jadakiss]

They let a few smart ones slip through, but they make sure it's only a few. We're gonna let two this can't beat

[Joe Budden]

up the record label no more. You go to the feds, you can't hear. In my day, we was beating up with the plaques on the wall. We went out, we went, now that is a fed case, right now. They letting you know asap.

[Jadakiss]

Can't even get out of the building. They gonna lock you in the building

[Joe Budden]

to the fucking authorities at Atlantic one time I said, yo, I'm running up in. They didn't want to pay for a video like I wanted to. I said, I'm coming in there and anybody. I mean anybody up in this that I walked in there. Atlantic Records, they had like a thousand workers that was like in there. Thought it was a Jewish holiday. They sent everybody home. When I tell you it was papers blowing in the wind. I walked up in there, I said, damn it. Ain't one stood behind. Not a fucking janitor can get smacked up out this bitch. This was like the whole place. Yo. They didn't take it as a bluff. They didn't think that was cap at that time. They got out of this, everybody, nice ladies, everybody was gone. Niggas was like, oh, no, he coming up in here. They could tell me, the only guy who stood there, rest in peace, is my good friend Ronnie Johnson. And because he knew I loved him so much, he said that. He explained it to me. He said, yo, Joe, you not Beyonce, man. Your last single didn't do good. They're not gonna give you the bag for the next video. And this and this and that. So a lot of shit I went through in the industry, I learned I had to go independent.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

Because I realized we're in the blind at all times. So we telling the record label, yo, you gonna push this, you gonna make this a hit. And then suppose they don't? Suppose they lying to you? And they like, yo, kiss always sell 250,000 records. Just give out enough, spend a little. It's like the drug game. Spend a little and step on this bitch. We know he gonna sell 250,000. So that's how they make their PC. Meanwhile, Kiss is like, yo, I think I could do a million if y' all blow the bag.

[Jadakiss]

They cool with that. 250 they make they money.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah.

[AZ]

250 from 50 people, they good.

[Jadakiss]

That's facts.

[AZ]

They good.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why, being independent, I had that one song. I say it all the time. Hate when I repeat stories. But when I put out that song with Young Jeezy, I got so many, you know, Right? Just like we talking to you. We. You ain't delusional. Niggas is telling you this album is hot. Az. You know when this is hot, I'm

[AZ]

speaking to my peoples.

[Kevin Peace]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Budden]

But they telling you. But they telling you that is hot.

[AZ]

That's a fact.

[Joe Budden]

Right? So it ain't a lot. So I put that shit out, and the whole world called me, was like, yo, you got another Lean Back, nigga. This shit is crazy. The whole industry called. Yo, welcome back. This, this, this, that shit, it wasn't charting, wasn't moving, wasn't doing nothing. I went to the label, I was like, yo, y' all didn't. Yeah, Joe, this. I said, this shit was a hit. I said, I gotta go. I gotta put my own money where my wife is and go independent and put my own money. And at least I know I spent it. The shit don't blow. It is what it is. I can't go there. And it also feels you feel smaller looking at a guy behind the desk begging him to promote your shit or play your music or this and this. I used to feel smaller on the other side of the desk saying, yo, you gonna pump my shit, you're gonna go? And I was like, yo, you know what, Joe, you always been a hustler. You always been an entrepreneur. You gotta go. And they was calling that. That time I had beef with 50 cents and they was calling that the graveyard. You just crackheads. You like going independent at that time?

[AZ]

Oh yeah.

[Joe Budden]

They really try to discourage from going independent. The graveyard only bumps go there. Meanwhile, I made, wow, more money than I made on a major. So you go on a major, you sell 2, 2 million records, they take you unrecouped, they give you another half a million to make the next album. You sell gold on an independent at that time, they giving you seven dollars, you made three and a half M's.

[AZ]

That's a fact.

[Joe Budden]

That's the math. I was figuring it out. So I wasn't trying to hear none of that shit. They was talking graveyard bums this. I'm like, nah, papa, you ain't seen these checks. That shit was that fucking another round with Chris Brown. It's the one time in my life I try to stop the money from coming. I was kicking that shit back in the safe. Like, please stop, stop sending another check. Another bonus is coming through. This shit so independent, when you hit it out the park, it's sweet. It's the best in the world. And then you build that catalog so that you can benefit off of it. If you ever want to make a catalog deal where you want to sell your catalog, you got that equity. That's the real money fact.

[AZ]

That's fact.

[Jadakiss]

Joe and jada show.com we got new merch fresh off the presses. Go get it. Bang out of big bomb jo and jadishow.com you can get these little cold for a T shirt with a hoodie.

[Joe Budden]

It's my favorite right there. I need an extra large [e-mail]. go there, get it.

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[Joe Budden]

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[Joe Budden]

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[Joe Budden]

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[Jadakiss]

Favorite Bar you ever writ? That's one of his questions. Because I thought that's like a brain question.

[AZ]

Yeah, that is. That's crazy. We got 10 albums out.

[Jadakiss]

All right, we can skip that.

[Joe Budden]

Nah, nah nah nah. What's close to it? What's the verse that you feel like? Yo, that might be my best verse I ever spit. You gotta have one. You're lying. Kiss, I'm back.

[Jadakiss]

When you got a lot how many verses niggas got? How could you sit there and break that down?

[AZ]

I think the come up throw the come up Stack invite Put the gun up Laugh, get nice Split the blunt up Pray blue and whites don't run up Remain humble. Yeah, that one was coming.

[Jadakiss]

You know what I'm saying? He got that shit, man.

[Joe Budden]

Money, more Murder Ball.

[AZ]

Damn. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

[Kevin Peace]

See?

[AZ]

Keep going. Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

It's so many, man. Man. Az, man. So az. I heard on the album where you said Rakim birthed the style. Jordan D, the G rap fine tuned it. Did I skip somebody?

[AZ]

Skip Kane?

[Joe Budden]

I skipped Kane. Big Daddy Kane. That was Pun's coogee rapping. Big Daddy Kane was Pun's favorite rappers. Yeah, I skipped Kane. So you said G Rap.

[AZ]

Rakim broke my. Rakim Kane warmed it up. G Rap turned my dad. Yeah. And then they're my favorites right there.

[Joe Budden]

And then that realism, life, actual actuality.

[AZ]

Fuck.

[Joe Budden]

Who's the baddest in Perkins?

[AZ]

That's the set off right there.

[Jadakiss]

So good that goes with this one. Which album changed your life more, you think? Illmatic or Door Die?

[AZ]

Door Die. Damn. Nah, I don't know that. That was crazy.

[Jadakiss]

How was it good?

[AZ]

I would say Illmatic because it made me.

[Jadakiss]

It was.

[AZ]

So I had a bidding war, and I only had three songs or six raps. And every lab, you know, they wanted me. So I had to make.

[Joe Budden]

What is connection with Nas? Like, who introduced you? Yo, this is Nasir.

[AZ]

This is a. I think the homie Yambo. He was on the phone. He from Brooklyn, but he was in Queensbridge. And he knew I rapped. He knew Nas rapped. He was in the streets and he got us on the phone and me and Nas going back and forth. Actually, it was other people on the phone.

[Joe Budden]

It was like one of them parties,

[AZ]

but it was just some real shit. We was rapping. But I gravitated towards Nas. Cause he just spit some crazy shit.

[Joe Budden]

And I was like.

[AZ]

We exchanged numbers and we kind of. We dialogue for like a year before we even bump heads, like every now and then, like once a month. What up, nigga? What's going on? Yo, my man just got shot over there. Oh, my man.

[Jadakiss]

You know.

[AZ]

So that was like a year. And then he got a deal. And then I think halfway through Illmatic, he invited me to the studio. I went there. Just a Fly on the Wall and Life's a Bitch wasn't even premeditated. That just happened. I Wasn't trying to get on the album. I was just there just supporting. Yeah, shit just happened.

[Joe Budden]

Like I said, that's why we get high.

[Jadakiss]

Cause you know, and you know he get busy.

[AZ]

So I'm wondering why he's even put me on the fucking album.

[Jadakiss]

It's done.

[AZ]

I don't want to get on that.

[Joe Budden]

I can't keep up with you, nigga. Let me tell you.

[AZ]

That's how I thought, right?

[Joe Budden]

Let me tell you my perspective. A fly nigga in my hood is show. Big so born lords, showbiz coming, all that convertible bends. Yo, you gotta hear this. You gotta hear this. I was by Soundview somewhere. He was like, you gotta hear this. That pulled that. That Illmatic out the tape and threw it in. And we sat in the car and listened to the whole Illmatic. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, yo, this. So I was scared, right? Because I had one hit out, one album out. I had flow joint. I was like, busted. Check it. Watch how I wreck it. Watch your back. And I'm here. Realizing the realism of life and actuality. I said, oh, my God, this over to me. I'm not coming with the.

[Jadakiss]

This might have been the realest shitty of it. That's ill. That's you. That one right there hit home different because you gotta say it again. How do. How did Flo Joe go?

[Joe Budden]

Check it. I got a line on Flo Jo where I say, step to me and I'mma mash your toes.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah, I gotta go to the bathroom.

[Joe Budden]

Yo, yo,

[AZ]

That's a fact. You said that.

[Joe Budden]

That's a fact. And I. And that. I heard that. So I was so. Dude, what you call that? The endorphins in my brain was like, yo, this is the illest I ever heard. And then the fear sets in and says, if you don't step.

[AZ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Budden]

So I studied you guys. Like, I'm. Yo, I'm telling you, I might have listened to Illmatic one billion times.

[AZ]

Damn.

[Joe Budden]

Before I started my second album. And that's how I stepped my second album up. The crazy shit is I put out the second album, like, right about now, like, you. You four days in, right? And I run into Biggie. Rest in peace. I see biggie, he got 200, 300 people around him and shit. And he was like, yo, crap. He was like, well, we've been playing all week. He was, yo, you stepped your shit up, nigga. This second album. I was like, yo. He told Lil Kim, she was like, yo, been playing your album all day. That was like, I had to step it up or I was. I was done a lot of, you know, Illmatic. Put a lot of out of business. Oh, yes. That's the hustle in you. You gotta adapt.

[AZ]

Yeah. Yeah. And it was the wave after that, you know, with mall out of business,

[Joe Budden]

you know, you couldn't come with that Wax shit no more. You had the life. Be lyrical.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

Or come through with some shit. Otherwise. Yeah. It wasn't gonna work. Shout out my man Les. Les.

[AZ]

Yes. Yes.

[Jadakiss]

L. Ellie.

[Joe Budden]

Yes. I love you, brother man. He was like the first nigga who ever. You know. Cause I just want to shoot people and rob people and all my music and all that.

[AZ]

Oh, he gave me something. Gave me.

[Joe Budden]

Oh, yeah. He gave me like two, three joints. But what he did do was like, let me know, like, I did the. Hey, Joey. I didn't even know I could make a song like that. I was so hardcore. I was like, mop. So when. When he was like, yo, you could rap. I was like, yo, B, they gonna take a pussy God if I rap to some shit. He was like, nah, nigga. Like, this is the fly shit. And I did it. And thank God. It's like one of my classics. And so he was like, you know, with me, I was real just. I was. I was too underground.

[AZ]

Right. Right.

[Joe Budden]

You know what I mean? My shit was like, we will not commercialize. So my shit was like, so underground that every step of the way for me. If you would have asked Fat Joe 1992, would he ever have a what's Love or some shit like that, he would have never, ever, ever in the history. I thought I was just gonna be making spit razor music. That's.

[AZ]

You adjusted with the sound. Yeah. Rap Real world.

[Joe Budden]

Well, I just seen the money. So what happened for me was that was making that kind of like the band. Not to tell his business. One day, Chris Gotti came to get me. And this one, Murder Inc. Was on fire. And he showed me. And this is Chris Gotti, not Irv. Rest in peace, Irv. Man. I miss Irv, man. He showed me a $20 million check. And then they came to my crib in the Bronx, nigga. It was like, yo, I just got this. He's not even. He's number two or number three on the list. He showed me a $20 million Chris Gotti, and I said, oh, I gotta make records like that. Just shoot him up. Bang, bang. Ain't gonna work. And then we made the west love and we dug him from there. Then we started just making hit records. But it was like, you know, I seen it. He showed me the check and I was like. Like, nothing. It was a normal day. He was like, all right, Joe, let's go down. Like Celtic City is, you know. I was like, yo, this nigga got a $20 million fucking check. I'm over here still doing $1,500 shows, nigga. Like, I was like. And so I realized you gotta step it up, you know what I mean? And make music like you when you did Sugar Hill.

[AZ]

Yeah, I had to do that. I didn't wanna do that. But I saw what Biggie did and he just zipped. He still kept it real on the album, but he. And so now I'm hearing everything that's. I'm hearing, Marv. I'm hearing. I said I could compete, but I want a zip.

[Jadakiss]

I was a good ass.

[Joe Budden]

You made some fly shit.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah, that was a hell of a zip.

[AZ]

Yeah, you could zip.

[Jadakiss]

Hell of a zip. You could zip that.

[AZ]

That's a fact.

[Joe Budden]

That's why.

[AZ]

Because it's a music business. It's not. I mean, we all get busy, but it's a business at the same time. I was just.

[Joe Budden]

When the conversation never comes up in my mind, I always credit Biggie for the whole shit. I credit him because he's the first guy I seen with a backpack and an army fatigue jacket that started rapping on them R and B beats, making them hits, juicy and all that. And so that inspired me to make songs like that or everybody else. You know, he opened that door. At least for New York niggas, I know he opened that door.

[AZ]

That's a true.

[Joe Budden]

So like you just said, if everybody just kept it right real and say, who let them know that you could do that would be B I G

[Jadakiss]

Made it cool to wear a nice shirt, to be the one to be going from nasty to classic, Man, I

[Joe Budden]

was in his house one day, the nigga had a hockey jersey on and Levi's and this and that. He was like, yo, come to my shit tonight. This, this, that I pulled up. Nigga had gators on, fucking fur trench. This, that. I was like, what the fuck? Where did this come from? Biggie Smalls was an overnight success.

[AZ]

He was number one, two and three. That's a fact.

[Joe Budden]

Within months. He just never been seen before. Before that. Just. His money must have went, like, that's a fact. Like, some shit we never seen. Like, that shit was 1, 2 and 3. I remember like, yo, this nigga's number 1, 2 and 3. Somebody. I equate that to. I always use Cardi B as the standard now for, like, fandom. You know how Cardi B say anything on Instagram. The girls love that shit. You know, she dis this. This like she got that shit where she just. That shit. You were saying, she just jumped to another level. That's how Biggie did it for me, you know. But all you guys, man, you, the firm shit, all that. What was it like working with, like a Foxy Brown? You know, we rate Foxy Brown, she another one.

[AZ]

Yeah, she get busy Fox.

[Jadakiss]

I was listening to some Fox yesterday.

[AZ]

I can't wait till she come back out. I'm waiting for that come back.

[Jadakiss]

I'm coming back with the back to the ankle.

[Joe Budden]

She was saying that Fox, we got my biggest movie. You see, it happens all the time. So I think if you are a veteran, Sean C. You've seen this. If you're a veteran exec who's been in the game long enough, you've seen this shit play out with different artists. So say like, French had that shot caller and the next thing you know, he did the pop that with all them niggas. It took him another level with me. I was just getting my credibility with Flo Jo and all that. And LL put me on our shot show. But Fat Joe already had Flo Joe and already had the second album that Biggie saying I stepped my shit up. So I kind of like. I don't know if I deserve that slap right there, but thank God he gave it to me. And then you got Prodigy on there. Yeah, you got Keith Murray was on Fucking Flames. And then you got Foxy Brown. And I remember me doing it. It was a big deal to be on there with LL and all them. And I turned around. Cause we all shooting the video to say. And she come on, papa. I say, yo, this girl. Yeah, yeah. How about it? Took two seconds to know she was a superstar. She was in there with the biggest, hottest niggas, from the four platinum niggas to the underground niggas, to everything. She came up in there, I think she had like a white silk shirt and she was like in Ellen Tracy, this, this. And I was like, oh, God. My, oh, my God. There's a girl on this song that she's about to be the fuck outta here. What was that like that working with her in the studio and shit like that.

[AZ]

No, Fox in and out. She getting right to the business. Soon as the music come on, start turning, getting in the studio, she getting on the mic, she do it and she going she'll write fast right there. Lay half it down, write more, she out.

[Joe Budden]

And we used to waste a lot of money, huh, Sean C. We used to. The studio was the hangout.

[AZ]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[Jadakiss]

Huh, Sean C. Yo, what was it like working with Rest in Peace? Half a mill.

[AZ]

Oh, man, half was big head scientist. He had a lot of knowledge. He was trying to get that shit out like he knew something.

[Jadakiss]

He was before his time.

[AZ]

Way before his time.

[Joe Budden]

A lot of unsung heroes in the hip hop game passed away prematurely, you know what I mean?

[AZ]

Like the streets, it was. Rap game turned straight to the streets. Facts. Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

Was you conscious of that? Did you?

[AZ]

Yeah, yeah, I seen what was going on. My style was the same. I'm sitting back, you got the loud ones and you got the sound assassins. I think I was more like that. Just checking shit out, seeing where to go, where not to go.

[Joe Budden]

You know, I always went where the problems was. You was hearing that shit. You know that Fat Joe walked up in there with a hundred Puerto Ricans. Word up, son.

[Jadakiss]

What he do?

[Joe Budden]

Yo, that pun, they called him a German. He took the chain off and whipped the out of them. Yo, this big punt. Let me tell you something. Yo, listen, listen. You was there for that. Yo, Sean C. Let me tell you something. Say I be watching all these documentaries. They say the tunnel was the. It was the worst place to go. The tunnel was just Killerville.

[AZ]

Right, right.

[Joe Budden]

This island with a sprinkle of young ladies, this Big Pun. Big Pun would go in there with millions of dollars in jury and a robe on my. With boxes under like this in the middle of the tub bottom with a robe on and chancletas where every. So called the murderer of all murderers of this. What up, God? I'm like, yo, punt, where's your clothes? My that know what time it is out here? Yo, Big Punt. Yo, that, that. Whoa, a big pun, man. But you know.

[AZ]

Yo, Joe, how you. How you made it to that More Money, more murder video? How you do that?

[Joe Budden]

I'm in that video.

[AZ]

Yeah, but how do you do that?

[Joe Budden]

I was in everybody's video. I don't know, like I might have had the video on. On Speed Down. They always shoot the video.

[Jadakiss]

Fat Joe used to get the. Used to get the. Yo, they shooting over there?

[AZ]

Yeah, they'll say radio.

[Joe Budden]

And you know who else I did? Incarcerated Scarfaces. I'm the bar in Raekwon's video. Yeah, they shot the over there Bob Lemons projects by the Taino Towers over there on the east side of Harlem. They had the ice cream truck. I'm the barber in the video. Incarcerated Scarface.

[AZ]

That's crazy.

[Joe Budden]

In Engine, Engine number. I'm jumping up and down behind Black seat. Oh, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up. Back to the stage. Chris Spear, nigga, you call Fat Joe on Cameo. He was there. But that day, that day, it's crazy that you. That you bring that up, right? Because sometimes I'm fried. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm fried. So, like, sometimes, you know, n. Don't call me Cap so much. Sometimes I think I'm capping. I don't know. This shit is crazy out here, right? But that video, I remember Jay Z was there.

[Jadakiss]

Jay was there.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

And Nas and every. You know, we just had Rick Ross here. I really asked him, how did it go bad between him and Drake. And I remember everybody was there. No, no, no, no, no. This is before Nas and Jay Z, Beef. Everybody was there in peace, in love. I was sitting next to these. Nah.

[AZ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Budden]

So I'm like. When it went really went bad, I never. I never. You the one. You probably the only guy who got them together before all that Beef.

[AZ]

That's a fact.

[Joe Budden]

How did that come about?

[AZ]

I knew Jerry from high school. I think ninth grade. He was in the grade. Used to rap in the lunchroom. That's before the Biggie and Busta Rhyme shit.

[Joe Budden]

So you was in that same house they leave you out of that high school?

[AZ]

I didn't go to that one. That's after they closed ours. And then from there we was cool. And I was already doing me. And he reached out, tried to make it happen. It didn't happen. But I was there at the video, at the. With all. With Big and all of us sitting at the round table. Nas, Bozak came, but he didn't. So they was cool. But, you know, shit happens.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

I mean, you know, it's a part of our history. Everybody's history. And hip hop. You know what I'm saying? That shit. I guess sometimes some shit had to happen. No, no, for real. Sometimes the journey is. Shit gotta happen.

[AZ]

Maybe it was about just the business, right? About the music business. It was a power move like that. Just same game, right? It's a power move.

[Joe Budden]

That's what it is. Supremacy.

[AZ]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

You know what I'm saying?

[AZ]

It's a fact.

[Joe Budden]

But we hear the name of the project. Tell them the name of the project.

[Jadakiss]

Three Man.

[Joe Budden]

Telling you right now. Anybody. Uniqueness, anybody in the fucking planet Earth, if you love real hip hop, if you love lyrics, you love beats. Nothing is fucking with az's album right now. It's untouchable right now. I already set a date with myself. I'm going back home to get in the car and play the album while I drive in the car. Preferably around Brooklyn, Harlem, the South Bronx.

[AZ]

Yes.

[Joe Budden]

Little bit of Queens in there.

[AZ]

Yes.

[Joe Budden]

You want me to touch the Y. O do I got juice and Yonkers by now? Cause I'm affiliate with you. You know your kids, man, the twins. I hung out with the twins at the game. They got so much love. I want to know you, like, can I get like a free pasta leo or some

[Jadakiss]

magic carpet?

[Joe Budden]

Yo, spreading the wealth, yo. Yo, am I like a.

[Jadakiss]

You done in Y? You good? Go through there. He gonna look, he gonna cause, he gonna cause.

[Joe Budden]

Go pump my gas in the gas station. Where's that gas station at 354, man. What? Every year, every time I used to go to Yonkers, they'd be like, yo, the locks is in that gas station over there. Y' all just out there deep. So I'm good in, yo.

[Jadakiss]

Great in, yo.

[Joe Budden]

Get me a ginger and lemon shot.

[Jadakiss]

Go get you a Pacolito.

[Joe Budden]

I'm good. Yeah. Yo, what's up, baby? Yeah, what's up, baby? I'm in the building. Yo, this ain't that.

[Jadakiss]

That ain't this. Make some noise for az, y'.

[Kevin Peace]

All.

[Joe Budden]

You know why? Az, let me tell you something before we turn off these cameras. The reason why I give it out there to you like that is because you're not gonna do it to yourself. You quiet. But you need niggas like me, the spokesman, the mouth of the south, to let the niggas know your shit is on fire so they don't get it mistaken. You a quiet nigga, I'm saying. Nah, nigga, this for the culture. We gonna salute them the right way. And if you got ears, go. Go get that album.

[Jadakiss]

Yes.

[Joe Budden]

If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H VAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Kevin Peace]

Hear that?

[Commercial Announcer]

That's the sound of your skin silently crying out for hydration. Luckily, Dr. Teals has just the thing to get you glowing in no time. Meet Dr. Teals Skin renewal Deep Hydration, made with a proprietary triple magnesium complex, plus skincare actives for 50% improved skin hydration. After just one bath, the words dry and dehydrated are about to be wiped from your vocabulary. Find Dr. Teals all dressed in blue in your local bath aisle. Dr. Teals. Yep, you needed that.

[Jadakiss]

You know how it's never really about

[Joe Budden]

where you're going, it's about who you're going with. The right people can turn any drive into a great memory.

[Jadakiss]

That's something Toyota really believes.

[Joe Budden]

They design vehicles around real life and real people, the ones who make plans happen and bring everyone together inside. Everything's built with passengers in mind. Comfortable seating, smart layouts, and space that actually works so everyone can relax and enjoy the ride.

[Jadakiss]

There's room for the people, room for

[Joe Budden]

the stuff, and room for the moments that happen along the way. Because when people are the destination, your ride is important. Learn [e-mail] and find the vehicle that fits your people.

[Martha Stewart]

When Kohler, global design leader and luxurious kitchen and bath products, asked me to be their ambassador for timeless, elegant, durable cast iron, I said, I'm in. Soon after, I was in their Kohler, Wisconsin foundry watching molten iron poured, enamel applied by hand, and the beautiful finished pieces ready to ship. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron has been crafted by incredible artists artisans, and seeing it firsthand gave me a whole new appreciation for their craftsmanship. Now I am proud to lend my stamp of approval to my favorite Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and enduring style. Shop my curated [e-mail] as the Kohler Cast Iron ambassador, I say long live cast iron.