Joe and Jada - Erick Sermon talks 'Dynamic Duos' album: Tupac, Biggie, Mobb Deep, Snoop & more

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd — Joe and Jada with Eric Sermon

Date: December 4, 2025
Episode Focus: “Dynamic Duos” — Eric Sermon on Hip-Hop Legacy, Missed Moments, and the New Album
Guests: Eric Sermon (legendary rapper/producer, EPMD), Joe Budden, Fat Joe, Jadakiss

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Overview

This special edition of The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a lively, in-depth roundtable hosted by Joe Budden, Fat Joe, and Jadakiss, featuring the iconic Eric Sermon. The discussion centers around Sermon's decades-spanning career, his impact on hip-hop, memorable near-misses with superstars, the realities of the music industry, and the making of his collaborative new album, Dynamic Duos, featuring legends like Tupac, Biggie, Mobb Deep, Snoop, and more. The episode is rich with reflections, humor, braggadocio, and lessons for artists and fans alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Eric Sermon's Legacy, Genius & Underappreciation

• [03:20] Joe Budden opens with an epic introduction, praising Eric as “iconic,” an “underrated pillar in hip-hop,” and a “genius” in production, creating labels, chemistry, and sound.
• [06:51] Eric reflects: “Yes, I was involved in selling over 70 million records...I just want to put that flex out there.”
• [09:13] Eric speaks on underappreciation:

  “If we would have had this type of social media back then, it would probably be more...but we didn’t have it. People just heard records. It wasn’t about the producer, about the artist. Nobody knew who made shit.”

2. Sampling and Early Hip-Hop Production

• [12:51] Eric’s earliest influences were the records his family already owned — “Parliament, Earth, Wind & Fire, BT Express, The Whispers, Patti Labelle...Whatever was in front of them speakers.”
• [14:37] On learning to structure songs:

  “That’s when I learned how to make a chorus. Before that, I had no clue. So I owe them that because now when I’m making ‘You a Customer’, now I’m knowing how to format.”

3. “Could Have Signed” Superstars & Missed Opportunities

• [16:49-20:55] Fascinating recount of nearly signing Redman, Biggie, Nas, Raekwon/Wu-Tang, Rick Ross, Ludacris, The Game, Hitmaker, and more.

  “I don’t know that many people that got my story of those MCs that came to me Uno first that I could have had, but, you know, could have had the crew...” (Eric, [19:47])

• On priorities then: “I already got money, I got my own groups...my focus wasn’t there.” (Eric, [18:27])

4. Business Lessons, Money, and Evolving Artist Hustle

• [25:04] Fat Joe stresses the freedom the podcast affords — “You have freedom, no boss.” Stephen A. Smith expresses envy at this.
• [29:13] Comparing the new artist landscape: “The young ones are getting it...They came in a time where the money’s heavy for them. It wasn’t like that for us. We had to hustle.” — Eric
• [41:19] Joe and Eric discuss lack of early financial guidance for hip-hop artists.

  “Nobody taught us. Those people just happened to know. My man told me to make clothes...I looked at him like he was crazy. I’m a rapper, I make music.”

• [58:41] Eric details industry accounting tricks, the business of sampling, the exploitation artists face, and calls for artists to retain their rights and go direct-to-consumer.

  “We didn’t know about money. Everybody had the same program — lawyer, accountant, business management... The lawyer was working with the label.”

5. Publishing, Streaming & Revenue Realities

• [61:51] Eric on Spotify economics:

  “The president...made $300 million [in 2024]...They’re giving us 0.4 cent. Now Congress passed the law — they’re giving us one penny. So 1 million streams get you 14 grand; before, 100,000 streams got you $200. This whole system is fucked up for us but not for the labels.”

• [65:39] Eric advocates for self-publishing and direct sales:

  “If you have a name, why would you want to go and do all that work…and go put it on that platform?...Do the marketing promotion on yourself and bring them to your platform.”

6. Producer-Focused Insight: Sampling Costs & Lawsuits

• [69:18-71:10] Fat Joe asks about the cost of clearing Marvin Gaye samples; Eric reveals:

  “It cost $200,000...$150K to the wife, $50K to the lawyer. But Clive gave me $4 million, so that whole thing, how it went…”

• The Pharrell/Marvin Gaye “Blurred Lines” lawsuit comes up as a key lesson.

7. Making of “Dynamic Duos” Album

• [72:14-80:42] Eric opens up about assembling a historic album, “Dynamic Duos,” that took nearly four years, as COVID, legal, and estate delays (Tupac, Biggie, Nate Dogg, Sean Price, etc.) all made it an “odyssey.”

  “I get Biggie cleared, but the Tupac estate…I offered $100,000…she didn’t say yes or no fast enough...” (Eric, [76:58])

• The project features living and posthumous verses: “Redman, Method Man, Snoop Dogg, Nate, Helter Skelter, M.O.P., Cypress Hill, EPMD, Dogg Pound, Conway the Machine, Game, Lil Wayne, Mobb Deep...” ([80:11])
• Joe Budden requests a feature on Volume 2.

  “I got you.” (Eric, [80:46])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Fat Joe on Eric Sermon’s genius:

  “Eric Sherman, a genius. That’s the words he missed out. You’re a fucking genius. You’re ahead of your time.” [05:14]

• Eric Sermon on being underappreciated:

  “We didn’t have social media...people just heard records...producers were anonymous.” [09:13]

• Joe Budden on financial lessons:

  “We thought, we know. I tell him shit, he don’t listen to me...every time you perform, I see you drinking water… Why don’t we sell water?” [41:40]

• Eric Sermon on direct-to-fan sales:

  “8,000 people give me $50...that’s $400,000 from only 8,000 people.” [68:14]

• On industry exploitation:

  “This is the only business that glorifies you getting rolled.” (Fat Joe, [64:01])

• On missed signings:

  “I don’t know that many people that got my story.” — Eric ([19:47])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:20-06:51: Epic Eric Sermon introduction, Genius/legacy/underrated discussion
• 12:51-15:00: Origins of sampling, early production stories
• 16:49-21:31: List of near-misses on signing now-famous artists (Redman, Biggie, Wu-Tang, etc.)
• 25:04-29:13: Artist financial freedom, podcast vs. corporate, new-gen vs old-gen
• 41:19-43:06: Missed creative business opportunities
• 58:41-61:51: Music industry business pitfalls, lawyers and accountants, IRS
• 61:51-68:14: Streaming, Spotify payments, direct sales model
• 69:18-71:10: The price of samples, Pharrell/Marvin Gaye lawsuit
• 72:14-80:42: The making of “Dynamic Duos”: clearances, delays, final lineup
• 83:01-93:34: World premiere of tracks, breakdown of featured artists, reactions

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Music Premieres & Album Previews

• [83:01] Unveiling tracks “Sidewalk Executives” with M.O.P. (“This is street certified. Fire off weapons, you with the sidewalk executive…” — Jadakiss, [83:12]) and “Where You At” with The LOX.
• [94:16] Teases a track with Conway the Machine, Lil Wayne, Game.
• Discussion of working with legends’ vocals — “You’re going to think them two (Biggie and Tupac) was in it together.” (Eric, [90:51])
• Enthusiastic, almost reverent in-studio reactions to the tracks played.

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Humor, Camaraderie & Realness

• Frequent friendly teasing about names, hair dye (“The Rolls Royce of hair coloring” — Fat Joe, [07:16]), missed studio sessions, and homage to “sidewalk executives.”
• Self-deprecating honesty about missed investments (“We thought... water is free. Nah, I’m telling you, if you sold water…” — Fat Joe, [42:17])

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Final Reflections & Takeaways

Eric Sermon’s appearance is a celebration and a masterclass in hip-hop history, artist business, and perseverance. The hosts, all titans themselves, reinforce the principle that legacy, savvy, and self-ownership are crucial in a changing music industry.

Fat Joe sums up the vibe:

“We pay homage to the true legends. Yeah, we got you right now...this is your house. This is the house that you built. Me and him, we just here enjoying the time we get to sit with our Legends.” [47:15]

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For aspiring artists and genre enthusiasts, this episode is essential listening for both the wild stories and the real-life lessons on money, ownership, and adaptation in hip-hop.

Transcript

[Joe Budden]

Get your mother loving ears on because.

[Fat Joe]

Your big time radio DJs got news.

[Joe Budden]

PayPal lets you choose how you want to pay for all the stuff. With PayPal, I can pay in store, pay online, or pay overtime.

[Jadakiss]

What's that?

[Eric Sermon]

You want this translated into song?

[Joe Budden]

I hope you're sitting down. You can pay your own way. You keep those ears on, you hear. Don't just pay baby. PayPal. Learn [e-mail] this podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. When you're streaming the fight or sharing those takedown highlights, you need a wireless provider that keeps you close to the action. With Total Wireless, you're covered by the Verizon 5G network, so you don't have to worry about your connection being knocked out at the biggest moments. It's not something you can usually say about a wireless provider, but Total Wireless really does have your back. They're in your corner every second of the day, so you never miss a thing. Visit totalwireless.com or visit your local Total Wireless store to learn more about how Total Wireless can be in your corner. 5G access requires a 5G capable device and a 5G service area. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

[Fat Joe]

What do you think makes the perfect snack? Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient. Could you be more specific when it's cray venient. Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM. I'm seeing a pattern here. Well yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Crave, which is anything from AM pm.

[Eric Sermon]

What more could you want? Stop by AM PM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. AM PM Too much good stuff.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

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[Fat Joe]

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water?

[Eric Sermon]

Tide is specifically designed to fight any.

[Fat Joe]

Stain you throw at it, even in cold butter. Yep.

[Eric Sermon]

Chocolate ice cream. Sure thing.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Barbecue sauce.

[Fat Joe]

Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm Water. Additionally, tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Just remember, if it's gotta be clean.

[Fat Joe]

It'S gotta be tied.

[Eric Sermon]

I gotta flex one time. Cause I don't talk.

[Fat Joe]

I know, man.

[Eric Sermon]

There's nobody like me. I don't give a who out there. Cause again, people talk about shit. Niggas don't talk. I'm talking now.

[Fat Joe]

Yo, what up, y'?

[Jadakiss]

All?

[Fat Joe]

This is Joe Grant.

[Joe Budden]

Yes, it's your boy Jada.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, sir.

[Joe Budden]

You know what it is.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes, sir.

[Joe Budden]

The Joe and Jada show. Evan show. Legendary. Every show, iconic. And we never let you down. Today's guest. When you think of hip hop, when you think of style, fashion, iconic. When you think of one of the first sonically voices that drove everybody crazy. When you think of camaraderie, chemistry. When you think of production, when you think of a mentor that created a conglomerate in the dynasty, way back before people was even doing that kind of things with their labels and artists. When you think of somebody that's underrated, for those that must have been under a rock or just stupid, but you know what I mean, he don't really get mad because he get to the bag and the bags get to him, so. But when you think of underrated, you just think of one of the people, one of the pillars in hip hop that never fades away. He always finds a way to get to the vault.

[Eric Sermon]

I know.

[Joe Budden]

Ladies and gentlemen, make some noise for Eric Ser.

[Fat Joe]

First of all, I like that.

[Eric Sermon]

That intro was Joe.

[Jadakiss]

He.

[Eric Sermon]

That's not. It wasn't.

[Fat Joe]

He ain't with me.

[Eric Sermon]

It wasn't you, though.

[Fat Joe]

He ain't with me.

[Joe Budden]

What?

[Fat Joe]

Right? He. Nah, you ain't. Yo, that's a great intro, but you.

[Joe Budden]

Won'T pull it back.

[Fat Joe]

First of all, I ain't get the memo or the camel. Y' all look like y' all join Maga and like.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, yeah, but that's some other camera.

[Fat Joe]

Yo, stand up.

He look like the Count of Monte Cristo.

[Eric Sermon]

That's it right there in the hat.

[Fat Joe]

That's the Count. The Monte Cristo. This motherfucker look like he killed the whole community right now.

[Eric Sermon]

This nigga's crazy, Yo.

[Fat Joe]

Eric Sherman, a genius. That's the words he missed out. You're a fucking genius. You're ahead of your time. He didn't say the word genius. No, no. I'm trying to tell you something. His talent.

[Joe Budden]

No, you cried. His name is Eric Sherman. Not Sherman.

[Eric Sermon]

He. But that's how Joe pronounced it. What do you want me to do?

[Fat Joe]

You Already threw the flag. That's a legit flag I decided to throw. I've been calling the Marilyn Sherman my whole life.

[Joe Budden]

A lot of people.

[Eric Sermon]

I take that one back, okay?

[Joe Budden]

I take that back. There's a lot of people that says premature.

[Fat Joe]

I don't correct everybody that says, you took it back.

[Joe Budden]

I took it back.

[Fat Joe]

I paused the. Grabbed it back. You paused it.

[Eric Sermon]

You grabbed the flag.

[Joe Budden]

Rewound it.

[Fat Joe]

Eric schlemantech. The word I gotta use is genius. Ahead of his time. Musically, production wise pause blows my mind. To this day when I listen to epmd, I pause first. Damn.

You got this camouflage. Hold up the plates up.

[Eric Sermon]

Hold up.

[Fat Joe]

Let me shoot the place up, huh?

[Eric Sermon]

Let me do a sidebar real quick. This is crazy. So Just for Men is my go to, right?

[Fat Joe]

Not no more.

[Eric Sermon]

Let me finish.

[Fat Joe]

Don't do that.

[Jadakiss]

Let me finish.

[Eric Sermon]

Joey, I'm gonna throw two flags. Listen, I didn't give it a shot, right? So I gave it a shot because the Just for Men wasn't in cbs. So I see your shit, right? I said, I don't know if Joey said it's correct.

[Fat Joe]

We number. Wait. Okay, you know what?

[Jadakiss]

Yeah, Erica, go to slacker.

[Joe Budden]

It's not late.

[Eric Sermon]

So I get rewind, right? I opened up the box and I'm like, oh, shit. He got two for the price of.

[Fat Joe]

One and he doubled the price.

[Eric Sermon]

Now you got me. So now I try it and I'm like, yo, this shit is just as ill, but it lasts longer.

[Fat Joe]

It's the Rolls Royce of hair coloring.

[Eric Sermon]

Listen, I'm here not to. To give you the plug. Cause you plug all the time. But to tell niggas it's the truth. Organic, yo. See, I'm never going to show my grade. Girls like it. They like. Yo, you can show. Nah, liars.

[Fat Joe]

They're liars.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm never going to show it.

[Fat Joe]

They want you off the market, Eric. They want you off the market.

[Eric Sermon]

Off the top. This right here is the truth. Go back to the genius.

[Fat Joe]

No, but thank you.

Thank you. It's the truth. It's. The Rolls Royce has double the product. And actually our numbers are better than their numbers.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but number one, you know, for.

[Fat Joe]

Five, you know, I was a customer. That and it's pneumonia free, so black and brown. People who be breaking out, most of them won't ever break out with our product. Some other product makes people get bumps.

[Eric Sermon]

Right in the hospital.

[Fat Joe]

Oh, that's a fact. It never happened to me. I've been painting my shit since I'm 20 something.

[Eric Sermon]

And you come with a fucking shit to remover.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, you to remove like, yo, you went all out.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo. See Kiss.

[Jadakiss]

Yes.

[Eric Sermon]

He don't know about this part.

[Jadakiss]

Yes.

[Eric Sermon]

You ain't there yet.

[Fat Joe]

You know what I feel like right now? I feel like Eddie Murphy. Fuck you. Yes, you, too.

Nah, it's. It's the shit. It's the hottest shit smoking, man.

[Eric Sermon]

I think it's not hype. Not hype?

[Fat Joe]

No, it's not.

[Eric Sermon]

Not hype for niggas.

[Fat Joe]

And. Yeah, yeah. CBS Alleys. You know what I'm saying? Stop and shop.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, now let's go back Kiss. Let's change the subject again.

[Fat Joe]

Okay.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes, I was involved in selling over 70 million records. That means that when you count all the albums up that I was involved in, that ends up at that type of number. I just want to put that flex out there for niggas that want to talk about that.

[Fat Joe]

But why you think that people don't give you your props or you're not really appreciated like you should be?

[Eric Sermon]

I think that, again, if we would have had this type of social media back then, it would probably be more, you know, more talked about, you know, probably, you know, but we didn't have it. So people just heard records. It wasn't about the producer, about the artist. Nobody know who made shit. No. Until Pete Rock Remix, we knew about that. But as far as the actual production, listen, when me and Paris came in, we thought that we. Everybody that we heard made their songs. I didn't know what a producer was. I just made the records. Cause we had the rhyme on it. So we, you know, we made the songs afterwards. We was like, y' all producers. We had no clue. We thought that everybody we heard made their records.

[Joe Budden]

That's him.

[Fat Joe]

I believe that. Cause, you know, in Flo Jo, I did Flo Jo, all three verses and hooks without a punch. I didn't know what a punch was. So everybody knows Fat Joe. And then when it come, everybody, you gotta Flo Joe. They in the booth with me. You gotta Flo Joe. Everybody knows set. I didn't know what a punch. Yeah, but you came from that studio.

[Eric Sermon]

Me and Paris came from side by side in the mic like this.

[Fat Joe]

Wow.

[Eric Sermon]

Like this.

So we didn't have no. We didn't have enough. Yeah, we didn't have enough tracks. So we had to do that. When it got time to do the mixing, you would go up and down. If I was low or higher, whatever. But this is what we did. And like this, there was no other nothing.

[Fat Joe]

You guys made some of the greatest music ever created. I remember me hustling me in the streets, me taking. They had these cabs called OJs, right? So in the Bronx, you could rent the OJ for $25 an hour, right? So when you. When you was hustling and you made enough money if you ain't own shit yet. I'm talking about crack era. It wasn't a heroin. It wasn't big money. You rent the OJ for four hours. So a guy like Jada would just smoke his weed, chilling. Me, I'm in the back.

[Eric Sermon]

That puts you in the.

[Fat Joe]

No, no, I'm just saying. That's the point.

[Eric Sermon]

Got you smoking that.

[Fat Joe]

He like smoking.

[Joe Budden]

Throw me in the 80s.

[Fat Joe]

He likes smoking that shit. He would have been in the O.J. smoking and shit. They would have been driving him around. You listening to hip hop. I'm going to Spanish Harlem to see my girlfriend over there in 106 and 1st and the OJ, the Beamer and shit. But I'm pumping EBMD. It's a different, you know, when you ain't got it, but you just getting it. When you selling a couple of cracks, making $300 and you know what I'm saying, you ain't really got it, but you sitting in the back of a Beamer you stick in your face. You know how the dogs stick their face out the car to get the air. You sticking your face out that shit, listening to EPMD, kid. And play. It's all 88 Bismarckie. It's 88.

[Eric Sermon]

88.

[Fat Joe]

You know what I'm saying? Those are classic times for me. I like to know that you was too young. You assembled. Nah, nah. He know what time.

[Joe Budden]

Uncle. Rest in peace. Tom G. He was like a ill. One of my illest uncles. And he. He had the white Celica cells that picked me up. The system was crazy. Take me downtown, 125th Street. It's the mixtape rock. And will all of that get something?

[Jadakiss]

He.

[Joe Budden]

I remember one of his favorite tapes that had It's My Thing on. He kept just playing.

[Fat Joe]

And I'm like, it's my thing.

[Joe Budden]

Easy doing this. I just told him, play it all the way back to Yonkers. And I remember that. And I got all the y' all.

[Fat Joe]

And I showed you music selection of samples, right? Where does that come from? Your mom's, your pops?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, my dad had a bunch of records. One thing about me and Paris is. Nobody would never believe it, though. But we didn't know about digging, you know, as far as, you know, going to get records and have record stores. We Long island, we don't have that type of situation. Whatever was in front of them speakers. Because don't forget, back then, the records was against the wall unit. So whatever that was over there, we. We took to the studio. Whatever Paris had at his crib, he took to the studio. So the records that was there was again, Parliament, of course, you know, Earth, Wind and Fire, BT Express, the whole nine. So what you hear what you say in James Brown? You hear? Do you hear? You got the whispers, you got para labelle. You got, you know, just those type of records. Earth, Wind and Fire, you know, whatever you got those. One record we got from the label when we signed, the Steven Bag records we got from that was sitting underneath their record player, you know, so there was no digging. Whatever that was at the crib is.

[Fat Joe]

What we sampled, man. That was the best samplings.

[Eric Sermon]

And it's my thing too. Of course, Break Priest was out too, back then. So prior to the dj, he had those. So we had the breaks. That's where Jane came from. That's Joe Tex. This is my thing. Seven incapunk, the whole nine. But again, we made these songs and we didn't know how to make a chorus. So our records was just going like this. The label called Tay Ted and Special Kids to come to Long Island. He says, give me that record you. That you sampled. It's my thing from so seven minutes of funk, right? Because we just got the sample going. Boom, boom, boom, boom going. It's my thing going. None of it, no, no antics, no nothing. They come in and they get to the part where it goes particular, particular.

So I'm like, okay. They had the indent when the chorus is coming in. That's when I learned how to make a chorus. Before that, I had no clue. So I owe them that because now when I'm making you a customer, now I'm going, get down, get down. But time keeps on slipping. So I'm knowing how to format now.

[Fat Joe]

How does EPMDC Redman. How does Eric Sherman meet Redman?

[Eric Sermon]

We had a show at Club Sensations in Newark, New Jersey, which is like being in Brooklyn or being someplace where.

[Fat Joe]

We know what Newark is. Shout out to Newark.

[Joe Budden]

Shout out to the bricks.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, we shout out to the bribe sensation, though. You can get robbed in that place. You know what I'm saying?

[Fat Joe]

Right?

[Eric Sermon]

So we go backstage and I see do it all from Lords of Underground. He rhymed for me after he finished rhyme. He said, yo, my DJ rhyme, right? It's Reggie.

[Fat Joe]

No, so Reggie said, oh, he was their dj. He was his.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, that's it.

[Eric Sermon]

So before those are underground, this was through it all. I said, go ahead and say something. He says, I float like a butterfly, sting like the rock group. He didn't say Muhammad Ali. So I stopped him. You immediately was like, put him on stage that night. Didn't even know him. Now the crowd saying, yo, what's Red man doing up there? There's people that I knew him for new it. But that's how my thing was. I already knew it was special because he didn't say Sting like Muhammad Ali. He said, float like a butterfly, sting like the rock group. When I first met Murray, it took one of them lines, let's squash the beef cooker and we all can get fat. So all I saw was squashed a hamburger. So and so rising. Whatever with the be whatever in my head. Metaphors. That's why when I. When Nas came to me when he was doing Illmatic, I gave him seamless beats because I didn't understand Queensbridge. Because my rhymes was one of S, P, E, L, L solo, Dos Effects, Ricky D. Wow, Red man, I got A's. Whatever. So these are metaphor people. My only regret not to go in someplace else.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, that's great.

[Eric Sermon]

Me not taking Nas seriously. Cause when they left me, he was with the Pete Rock's house.

[Fat Joe]

You had a chance to be on that L1.

[Eric Sermon]

I want to put this out here, too. For those who don't know about this.

[Joe Budden]

Only on Joe and Jadis.

[Eric Sermon]

Exactly. Somebody bought Biggie Small to the barbershop in Brooklyn and listened to him.

[Joe Budden]

He should get a tattoo of two strikes on y'.

[Jadakiss]

All.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, you know?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, I know.

[Fat Joe]

Fuck. I'm sorry, Eric Sherman.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay, again.

[Jadakiss]

Fuck.

[Eric Sermon]

So this is two mistakes. Illmatic. I could have been on Biggie. I wasn't paying attention to him. I went to Staten island because Bernard Father was a pastor in Staten Island. I got a picture with me and wu Tang in 1989 with all of them on my Iraq. You know, me and Paris had twin Irox, right? Took a picture. Me and Raekwon went to go sit. His name was. His name was Shahlade. And we sat down on his step at his building. I was going to sign Raekwon. He talks about that too. I could have had Wu Tang Clan. I didn't. My mom was too young for that.

[Fat Joe]

I get it.

[Eric Sermon]

So Teflon Rick Ross. I had Tony Draper, put him to my crib. Rick was. Slept in my basement four months. I didn't take him seriously, he could rhyme. This is just rappers that I had.

[Fat Joe]

It's the time when you feeling like you're gonna put a artist out of work with him. Or you could be going through other shit where you just not focused on.

[Eric Sermon]

I already got money, I got my own groups. So again, I'm gonna help you. But my focus wasn't there. I'm living next door to Corey Rooney. He knocks on my door, and next to him is Curtis Jackson. Curtis Jackson comes in, we go in the basement, we make five records, and then we make heat waves. We don't do it like we do. That was his first single before he got shot. So that too was again. They brung that to me.

But something happened. These are the rappers that came to me first. Ludacris knocked on my door for a month in Atlanta.

[Fat Joe]

Atlanta when you was already Atlanta.

[Eric Sermon]

But again, I looked at him as Reggie. So I didn't take it seriously neither two at the time, my boy D Mac brung the Game to Fox Hills Mall. I told game spit at 16, he didn't know what a 16 was. Go to Vibe magazine. You know, I don't cap whatever he tells the people. Yeah, I was going to sign with Eric, but he wasn't ready. Let me keep going on rappers. I mean, I don't know that many people that got my story of those MCs that came to me Uno first that I could have had, but, you.

[Fat Joe]

Know, could have side the crew you did assemble. Redman, Keith, Mary Kay solo.

[Joe Budden]

That's Effects.

[Fat Joe]

Dodge Effects. You. You signed Dodge Effects? Yeah, they want Effects. That's an Eric Sherman B. I'm.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm in the chorus. The live effects, not the next. That's me in the chorus.

[Fat Joe]

Let me tell you something. Their second single. They say, because you didn't know my flows. Fat Like Joe, Like Joe. Oh, my. I used to love that shit when that shit came.

[Eric Sermon]

Kiss is throwing flags.

[Fat Joe]

Come on now. Take them sits back. Man, I didn't know that. Yeah, but I ain't know that. I did not know the Dodge Effects. So when you did all the Possibilities, everybody know Hitmaker. Listen, right?

[Eric Sermon]

Six months I had him in the crib.

[Fat Joe]

Or Hitmaker.

[Eric Sermon]

Six months. Oh, talks about that story, too. I gotta. I gotta remember the people. It's a lot of people. I gotta flex one time because I don't talk. I know there's nobody like me. I don't give a fuck who out there. When it comes to. No, no, no. When it comes to. Listen, because again, people talk about shit. Niggas. Don't talk. I'm talking now.

[Fat Joe]

Fuck all the hip hop shit talk.

[Eric Sermon]

My R and B in Vogue, Jodeci, Mary J. Blige, Chico debarge, d' Angelo for fucking Keith Sweat, fucking brownstone Angie Stone. This is. I've been do. I was doing R and B as much as I was doing hip hop records. But again, if you don't know Black street booty call, that was my day. First single is. No, everybody called me when I was doing Black Street. Pharrell was in the corner. I got a. It's a record on YouTube right now. Where I left Pharrell rap with somebody. It's called boot knock on zation. I know it's an ill name, but. But. But again, that's a.

[Joe Budden]

That's a.

[Fat Joe]

That's a poor situation in 25.

[Eric Sermon]

But again, I looked at Pharrell and I was gonna do that, but I took Dave Hollister from Black Street.

[Fat Joe]

Dave Hollister was the man.

[Eric Sermon]

And I did the first two albums. And then to a farce or hunter, they look over that, you know, like, this is. This is they. Not me, nigga. I don't give a who out there. Them niggas, I hear them talk. I got to do it on y' all show because again, y' all had big names. Khaled, Cardi, you know, this is. This is Sierra. This is big names on this show.

[Fat Joe]

You got the biggest. The biggest like water and. And no, these shutting them down. No, but listen, I just remember. No, no, no. This show right here is out of control. And whenever I try to do a favor, it's like. It's a favor, right? So there's certain people who are legends, who are whatever. But I already know the people we turned down, right? So when they come, I'm like, how do I sneak them on this motherfucker? They snuck up, the two Jewish guys on me. Jada kissing these motherfuckers. Two Jewish guys came up on. They said they did that.

[Joe Budden]

And my partners.

[Fat Joe]

Yo, the motherfuckers stuck up on this shit. Like I said, what the fuck is going on here? They sat down. Jewish guys came with their own mic. Niggas sat down, they had their own mic. Yo, this, this, that, this. I said, yo, how these motherfuckers finesse that?

[Joe Budden]

This is a heavily secured building.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, how they finesse it? They came in.

[Joe Budden]

You gotta know somebody.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, I knew the fix was in, but, you know, I'm cool. I'm cool with every. Everybody getting they shine. Everybody getting they spot.

[Eric Sermon]

Now the show is big. So again, you know, I did pause. But listen, you know what? Why am I doing this? I'm not even with that. No, but. No, no, no. You know why? Cause this show. Cause you do it.

[Fat Joe]

No.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah, you do.

[Joe Budden]

The whole problem with is his favorite choice of meal at a concert or.

[Fat Joe]

Nah.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. I mean, food is good, though.

[Fat Joe]

Culture. You see, Big daddy came posted himself eating the glitz. They starting the veggie.

[Eric Sermon]

The veggies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was different. Yeah, yeah, it was different. It was different.

[Fat Joe]

That's not on site. For God. He got it.

[Jadakiss]

Make sure that was a Hebrew national.

[Fat Joe]

Who just know on Cipher.

[Eric Sermon]

Who changed the word from the hot dog Pause. Who changed it?

[Joe Budden]

The new generation.

[Fat Joe]

Okay, well, the new generation got everything fucking up. They out here.

[Eric Sermon]

You can't wear Air Force ones now.

[Fat Joe]

Air Force ones. His grandfather sneaking.

[Joe Budden]

I don't care what they say.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, they like you worked in the hospital.

[Joe Budden]

They already try to abolish.

[Fat Joe]

First time.

[Joe Budden]

They can't do that either.

[Fat Joe]

Looked at the youth and said, you right. This the first time in my life they could do the dumbest you ever seen. Paint their hair or wild. I don't. Whatever they do, I'm like, God bless the Air Force. Is the old man you.

[Eric Sermon]

Because they stopped me. If they stopping your money. Did they stopping your money?

[Fat Joe]

I don't give a fuck about stopping the money. It's just now is less.

[Eric Sermon]

I know, it's. Yeah, it's too much over top. Over top.

[Fat Joe]

You know what Mark Wahlberg tells me? What Sylvester Stallone tells me.

[Eric Sermon]

Bill.

And bread, old townsman.

Go ahead, Joe.

[Fat Joe]

You want me to flex the knot? This is what this shit is.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes.

[Fat Joe]

Big up yourself.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes.

[Fat Joe]

You have freedom, Joe. The podcast allows you to have a freedom. You have no. No, boss. You need freedom. Stephen A. Smith came and sat there and was like, yo, you guys. I envy you guys because I work for a big corporate company. You guys up here, you could do whatever the fuck you want. You have freedom. That's what this show is about, is having freedom. We could talk about whatever the fuck we want to talk about.

[Joe Budden]

To a certain extent, it's a visible line, you know?

[Fat Joe]

And so my thing is. My thing is, right what's going on right now, it happened in every. In every level. You know, when we was kids, unfortunately. I'm sorry, everybody. When we was coming up, we young gangsters, 14, 15, we had to beat up the guys that was legends, that was already 21, 22 years old in order to get a name out there. That's how you make Your name in the street. So I see what the young kids are doing. They like, man, fuck. These guys are trying to run shit today. A hundred years old. Let's start with the Air Force. Oh, man, shit. They trying to date us, and we out here talking about nine. We trying to still get the bag right now, like you trying to. You know, they're doing that. They're trying consciously. The youth is consciously trying to make us old niggas. Yeah, that's it. They trying.

[Eric Sermon]

They do it and they. They do it. They run that age a lot, but we don't care because even with music, too, they be like, you know, you rhyming still or you. It's like this, man.

[Joe Budden]

I wrap circles around.

[Eric Sermon]

I know they don't.

[Joe Budden]

And they.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, I know. But they do that for some reason.

[Joe Budden]

When it's so rich, when it ain't, it ain't.

[Fat Joe]

I'm so rich. You lost the battle. I'm caked up my.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, that's one thing that Joe Goss wants, that you know about that bread.

[Fat Joe]

Nah, I'm just.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm let people know right now. Don't. Don't come for me. Somebody tried to come for me because I don't speak about money, right. I fucked around and went on drink. Chance made a mistake. I was trying to teach the kids about only publishing, right? About what you can. If it come back to you, you know, I'm saying, what can happen? So when we can sample the record. Because I was making the money from Mario Winers. I don't want to know. Anyway, I probably was making like a hundred thousand dollars, something like that back then. But the weekend, one of the biggest streaming artists in the world, streaming 1.9 billion streams. So my check was 250 grand a. Every three months, right. For 4% ownership. Just for that. Right, for that. No, I don't cap on nothing.

[Fat Joe]

So you got bread, so.

[Eric Sermon]

No, no, no. But. No, but I don't talk about it. So if I don't have it, then you don't know I don't have it. You know, I've been buying houses since I was 20. This is not. This is a flex. I've been rocking a book since I was 18. This is not something that was. Since it was new as far as how people talk about things, about. Whatever I had, I had. I was buying houses in Atlanta. I wasn't even living in apartments. The whole nine. I never even saw them look at certain things because you don't. You. It's not a rocket scientist to know if you look at, okay, here's the deals that Eric is making in these companies. Okay? There's Murray's at Jive, Reggie's at Def jam, Alfonso's at DreamWorks, this and that, whatever. How Alfonso's at EMI. So if you see me on that, then I got my own group, right? So now these are all these advances. I own all the publishing like, I own my publishing now. So all this stuff, you look at, whatever. Another rocket scientist. But I don't have to tell you that. But if you gonna look at it and you look at it.

[Fat Joe]

But I know one thing that I determined a long time ago. These young cats, they only respect the bat, right? Now, if you a broke, nice nigga, they ain't even giving it up. They not. They not. They looking past you. The only thing they respect. When I see Lil Lotto, Young Lotto, she be like, you get to. When I see these youngs, the ones that do respect me, they be like, get to it.

[Eric Sermon]

The young ones are getting it, though. That's what I'm saying. They came in a time where the money's heavy for them. It wasn't like that for us. We had to hustle.

[Fat Joe]

It was number one in the country. I was getting $500 a show, doing the chitlin circuit. Philly, the Bronx, yonkers next week, Virginia, D.C. and fucking Northcast. Like, you know, 1500.

[Eric Sermon]

Like, EPA's first record deal was $1,500. I got. Paris got 750. I got 750. I went to Marshalls and then I went to grocery store.

[Fat Joe]

Let me explain, Cindy. They bought a Kia.

[Jadakiss]

I don't keep going.

[Fat Joe]

They bought. They caught their advance and they bought a Kia. Coke took it up the Yonkers.

[Joe Budden]

Baltimore, man.

[Fat Joe]

Baltimore, New York.

[Eric Sermon]

I did.

[Joe Budden]

He did say the story, right?

[Fat Joe]

I'm telling you, Baltimore, it wasn't so feasible, right?

[Joe Budden]

And so 10,000 for three people ain't so feasible either.

[Fat Joe]

I know what I'm saying. I'm not against. What?

[Eric Sermon]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. What year Was that, though?

[Joe Budden]

90 something nervous.

[Eric Sermon]

3,000. That's a lot.

[Joe Budden]

Ain't a lot of nothing.

[Eric Sermon]

I don't know.

[Fat Joe]

Lot of. Well, my first apartment was 650amonth. One, one, one, one. One bedroom, one bath. You know what I'm saying? I ain't had no furniture on there, nothing like that. But, you know, I. I was out the hood.

[Eric Sermon]

I was in.

[Fat Joe]

The Bronx.

Is like a mansion.

[Joe Budden]

Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet.

[Fat Joe]

All right.

[Joe Budden]

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[Fat Joe]

Let's get to it.

[Joe Budden]

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[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, ihearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers are into true crime, sports, comedy, culture, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. And all this reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for you. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Let us show you at iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-IHEART. One more time, call 844-844-iHEART and get podcasting working for you.

[Fat Joe]

Hey, what's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here and I'm Bucky Brooks. If you love breaking down football from every angle, you're in the right place. Every week on Move the six, Bucky Brooks and I div deep into the game from the X's and O's to the front office moves shaping the league. We kick things off with Brian Binger breaking down what really went down on Sunday. It is as good a timing, rhythm offense as there is in the league right now. Then Rhett Lewis joins us for our rookie draft and coordinator of the week where we highlight the rising stars and the masterminds calling the shots. DJ talked me into a Ronde Gadsden Jr.

[Joe Budden]

He had a monster game.

[Fat Joe]

Monster. A monster game. And you hear from the voices who actually build the game, GMs, coaches and players who give you insight you won't get anywhere else. High standards and high care. That's the right combination. So whether you're studying tape or just love great football talk, subscribe to Move the sticks on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Joe Budden]

Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Fat Joe]

Atlanta is a spirit. It's not just a city. I didn't really have an interest in being on air. I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate. The building is where crunk was born in a club in the West End 4 World Star it was 559 where a tiny bar birthed a generation of.

[Jadakiss]

Rap stars, where preachers go viral and.

[Fat Joe]

Students at the HBCU turned heartbreak into resurrection.

[Joe Budden]

How do you get people to believe in something that's dead?

[Fat Joe]

Well, dreamers brought Hollywood to the south.

[Jadakiss]

And hustlers bring their visions to create black wealth.

[Eric Sermon]

Nobody's rushing into relationships with you.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Where are you from?

[Fat Joe]

They want to look you in the eye. Where the future is nostalgia.

[Eric Sermon]

Talking to ChatGPT.

[Fat Joe]

She like you really the first lady to have a gangster girls tape in Atlanta, Georgia.

[Eric Sermon]

Like that's what separates you from a lot of people.

[Fat Joe]

And I was like, you know what?

[Eric Sermon]

You right.

[Fat Joe]

Atlanta doesn't wait for permission. It builds its own spotlight.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm big rude.

[Fat Joe]

Let us guide you through the stories behind Atlanta's most iconic moments. Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

You know the shade is always shadiest right here. Season six of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Gisele Bryant and Robyn Dixon is here dropping every Monday as two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac. We're giving you all the laughs, drama and reality news you can handle. And you know, we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday, I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house. Okay the sign says, my neighbor is a Karen.

[Jadakiss]

No way.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know.

[Fat Joe]

You are lying, you humongous, y'.

[Eric Sermon]

All.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

They had some time on their hands. Listen to Reasonably Shady from the Black Effect podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Eric Sermon]

May 24, 1990. A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.

[Fat Joe]

I knew it was a bomb the.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.

[Eric Sermon]

In season two of Rip Current, we ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why she received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing.

[Joe Budden]

The men and women who were hurt.

[Fat Joe]

Had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California.

[Eric Sermon]

They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.

[Joe Budden]

The timber industry, I mean, it was.

[Eric Sermon]

The number one industry in the area. But more than it was the culture.

[Fat Joe]

It was the way of life.

[Joe Budden]

I think that this is a deliberate.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Attempt to sabotage our movement.

[Eric Sermon]

Episodes of rip current season two are available now listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Fat Joe, the apartment that we had in Jersey, I had one of them too. Never spent one day in it.

[Fat Joe]

Never did.

[Eric Sermon]

Not one day.

[Fat Joe]

Man, I was jealous. Cause you already, you know, I moved to Miami 20 something years ago. My big. One of my biggest, right? You know how you say you could have signed?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah.

[Fat Joe]

One of my biggest decisions. I don't regret Miami, but within myself. When I land in Atlanta, I feel like I'm at home. Birds chirping. I love it. I love the people, I love the atmosphere. I love the food. I love everything about Atlanta. And I always wondered, did I make the right move when I moved to Miami rather than Atlanta? If I would have went to Atlanta, I would have signed all of them, right? The future to this one, Right, right, right.

[Eric Sermon]

Everybody.

[Fat Joe]

I had a clean house in that. They would have been calling me, you know, the King or something, because I was signing. I signed DJ Khaled. I signed Big Pun, I signed Remy Ma. Could have signed Eminem, could have signed Rick Ross, could have signed Pitbull. The list is going Smokey Robinson, right? But in Atlanta, we gotta get Smokey to wear some rewind. If Smokey could do it. Let me tell you something.

You know any good thing, they laugh at you, right, While you doing them. And then when you get that bag, they Come to tell you how much of a genius you are. They say, yo, man, you man. You always know, Joe. You always know when that. When they hear this shit, the type of numbers this shit doing, they gonna be like. And I've been keeping everything right. No, but we are number one in cvs. We're the number one product of cvs. The number one product.

[Eric Sermon]

I just mentioned it to you.

[Fat Joe]

No, no, but the number one. Okay, you could buy toothbrushes, you could buy medicine, you could buy this, this, this, that shit, smoking them. Number one. The other brand you mentioned got 70s.

[Eric Sermon]

You said the other brand you mentioned.

[Fat Joe]

The other brand you mentioned, their boxes got 70s porn stars. You know what I'm saying? The.

Outdated, flabby as just that new shit with double the product. Yo, I'm telling you.

[Eric Sermon]

No, I just. I told you about it.

[Fat Joe]

I'm working. I don't give a fuck. Now, you want to talk about my era? I came in the game. Jay Z, Nas. Just, just.

[Eric Sermon]

No, no, no, no. Flo Jo was early, man.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, but it was the same era.

[Eric Sermon]

No, way before Jay Z. Jay Z was. This is 90, 96. Jehovah.

[Fat Joe]

I'm 93.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay?

[Fat Joe]

What I'm trying to tell you is I came in there when I was already in the game, making my 500. Making my $500. These guys came into the game young. I watched them build billion dollar empires. I watched Puff Daddy. Puff Daddy had the most visible see through chain you ever seen in your life. When I met. I met Puff Daddy when he was promoting parties before Biggie Smalls, before he had anything. So he used to run up to me when I was in my Beamers. And Ben says, yo, here's my flyer.

[Eric Sermon]

When he promoting clubs. You mean back then?

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, yeah, here's my flyer, buddy, for my party. And this. And I watched these guys build billion dollar empires. And I finally had to sit back and go, yo, it's time to invest. It's time to bring out products. It's time to so rum you could love. It's time to do real business, you know? And so that's where I'm at. I'm behind the eight ball when you talk about the people I watch come in after me and fucking get to the back to the bag, bag, bag.

[Eric Sermon]

But nobody taught us. See, if you didn't do that, nobody would have told you shit. Nobody taught us. Those people just happened to know. My man told me to make clothes after Call Kanai. I looked at him like he was crazy. I'm breaking clothes. I'm a rapper, I make music, you know. But he had the idea, but I never looked at it like that.

[Fat Joe]

That was a lot to do with it too. Where you felt like, you know, my brother, rest in peace. Raul was almost two years since he passed, but he had a lot. Raul told me, because Raul was a cameraman. Raul told me something that I thought was the dumbest shit you ever heard in your life. He said, bro, every time you perform, I see you drinking water. Why don't we sell water? This is before anybody sold water. Fuck hip hop. Not talking about buy the water. Water you used to get for free from the pump, from the fucking water machine. This. Then it was like, yo, we should sell water. I'm like, man, ain't nobody.

[Eric Sermon]

Does that sound crazy?

[Fat Joe]

Fucking water nigga. Like, water, water's free. Nah, I'm telling you, if you sold water. He had a couple of ideas prematurely ahead of time that we didn't take serious. Have we took him serious? I mean, when I go to his to the grave all the time, I always tell him, I said, yo, Raul, man, you really have some ideas. Like, he has some ideas that could have put us in the game a long time ago, but we ain't really listen to him, you know what I'm saying? We wasn't thinking on that level. We was trying to be rappers, right?

[Eric Sermon]

Because you had the idea for a long time before you did that.

[Joe Budden]

My dad, he was in coffee for my whole life.

[Fat Joe]

Oh, okay.

[Joe Budden]

General Foods, early back in the day, he was always telling me, yo, you gotta do your own, you gotta do. I was, I was brushing them all.

[Fat Joe]

We thought, we know. I tell him shit, he don't listen to me. You know, my man came to get me. My man came to give me. John Singleton. Came to get me to be kissed.

[Eric Sermon]

I was supposed to matter.

[Fat Joe]

People's his shaft. John Singleton was in the Bronx, Jimmy's Bronx Cafe, every day, begging me to be in the movie Shaq.

[Joe Budden]

I was VP Glory. I had to do something. So I told Denzel, go hold the show.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, what's wrong with yo, man, I'm.

[Fat Joe]

Telling you the truth. I had so many opportunities. I was too busy being the Jimmy's being a rapper. I was like, yo, acting I don't give even to this day. My sister Remy, she doing a movie right now. I feel bad for her. I'm like, damn, that's them. She's like, yeah, 18 hour days. And like, acting is almost torture. It's like, it's fun, it's great. I think it lasts Longer than their music, to be honest with you. You have like, a fucking hit movie, like, if you have, like, aj.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm not mad. At the movies with you on the sofa with the gun and the sofa. I'm not mad at that film. I'm not mad at you, too. In the jail, on the camera, when you was talking, like, see, I fuck with you with them shits, B.

[Fat Joe]

But you know what happened, Eric?

[Eric Sermon]

I had a minute in juice, B. I was a star. Did they rob me? But I was a star in the bar turned around.

[Fat Joe]

But my thing is, I love those moments, right? Shout out, she's gotta have it. I love those moments. The problem is I'm not the boss, right? So right now we joking and we like y', all, let's go over there. Is like, they was waking me up 6 in the morning, and my scene was at 10 at night for fucking night school, yo, they was slaving me, B. And then I get to the hotel, like, you remember how your dad used to go home, like, sleep with the clothes on? And that's what I was doing. And then it wake me back up. 5:30, 6:00', clock, the van's coming to get you. I do the same shit. I go over there and wait till the 9 o' clock at night to shoot the scene. They had Joe Crack, the rapper, you know, I remember your man used to pick on me. Kevin Harbors come. Yo, this ain't the studio. You ain't rapping. Wake up. I'm like, oh. Like, the acting's a whole different type of what they do to you. But I love the finish.

[Eric Sermon]

This right here is tangible. Now, for those who don't know, I got a company called Death Rugs. I've been doing different for eight years. Oh, y' all got my rugs. Every last one of y'.

[Jadakiss]

All.

[Eric Sermon]

So I don't know if you got.

[Fat Joe]

If you. I got it.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. Again, right? See, I don't want to do the flex thing. I got too much talk about what they do. Is not me. They not me. I got a deal with Levi's that come out January. You know, Nas just did. They signed two people. They did him and did epmd.

[Fat Joe]

Right? I need that. We gotta buy that, Danny. I know that shit gonna be crazy.

[Eric Sermon]

I have a Netflix. Not Netflix. Starz documentary series called 88 Fresh that's coming in February. Right?

[Fat Joe]

Wow. I wanna see that.

[Eric Sermon]

This is the silent part of whatever, because this is how the quiet. Because I'm an introvert at first, but on this show is where I decided to say, okay, you know what? Because you brung it up of underratedness. So I'm doing it. You know, they don't hear me speaking, so I'm speaking now. And since this is what you not have to do, but people are doing. I'm doing mine. That.

[Fat Joe]

This. You know what? This is your home. You know what's crazy? De La Soul came in. They kept laughing. It was like, yo, this is my favorite show. I can't believe I'm sitting here. No, it is looking at my favorite show. No, it's people, they sitting there like, yo, I'm looking at my favorite show. What the fuck I'm doing here? Yo, this is crazy. This is your house.

[Eric Sermon]

Everybody that knew on my schedule, right, ain't gonna mention all the names, too. When this name came up, they was like, oh, word?

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, this is what it is. We the realest. We the most authentic. We the most realest. We preserve in the vow. Fuck you want us to kill?

We pay homage to the true legends. Yeah, we got you right now. We got Bill Bellamy. We ain't fronting on the Legends. This is water. This is liquid.

[Eric Sermon]

I got you.

[Fat Joe]

You come in here, you lay on the couch. You do what the fuck you want. This is your house. This is the house that you built. Me and him, we just here enjoying the time we get to sit with our Legends guys.

[Eric Sermon]

Navigate.

[Jadakiss]

Yeah.

[Fat Joe]

And it's different levels of legend. So De La Soul, come here. You come here. I start by saying you're a genius, right? I mean, to the people who don't think I'm cap and take my word for anything, I told them this is a fucking genius. What he's even able to do is. Out of this world. Like, I'm amazed. You know, I get amazed by some of the guests that come here. Like you. And I sit here, and every time I talk to you, I know you always quiet. You mind your business. But, you know, you put in that pain in this game, that shout out, my brother, Opie Megatron, man. He plays EPMD every day. He puts you on his Instagram every fucking day. And so this Opie, Opie, love you, man. Opie, love you, man. Everybody, People really, really love you. And your contributions to the game ain't for you. We ain't got no red man.

[Joe Budden]

Some man name. He passed away. I think he was. Used to be with y' all back in the day.

[Fat Joe]

He was road manager.

[Joe Budden]

Big guy.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, Alvin, Tony.

[Joe Budden]

Alvin, Tony. How you know Alvin, Tony? He started somehow. We got Somehow. I don't know if it was through a promoter that somehow he.

[Fat Joe]

I did a few shows.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, you did? But didn't you do some work with him far as rapping somebody? Yeah, he did a deal. I remember when that happened. He said, yo, yo, I got Jadakiss on some. On a record. I'm like, no, you didn't.

[Fat Joe]

You can't get Jadakiss.

[Joe Budden]

I used to just hear him about what.

[Eric Sermon]

No, you can't get him. Listen, now, I'm glad you brought this up. This right here.

Yo, Joe, let's talk about it. Yo, yo, listen. Yo, yo, that jade is. Listen, Joe. Yo, yo, he send it. Yo, yo, yo, he's in it. Whatever. Yo, I got you one month, two months, three months. Yo, what up? Yo, he said it.

[Fat Joe]

We talking about Jada.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes.

[Fat Joe]

Oh, no, no. He's the hardest. He's the hardest. And I remember when.

[Eric Sermon]

I know.

[Fat Joe]

But he's on my last. He says, okay. I had to track this guy down into the studio at the Core D from the Rough Riders. Like, I had to.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, my.

[Fat Joe]

Him in the studio.

[Eric Sermon]

I thought it was just me.

[Fat Joe]

Was the hottest record out. My lifestyle was this shit.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo.

[Fat Joe]

And I was like, yo, I need. Like. It was like with Get J. The Kiss, you know, he wanted him.

[Eric Sermon]

Just left on us, B. Yeah, yeah, he don't.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, yeah, he love this kiss.

[Eric Sermon]

Will you see in that one in this one, too?

[Fat Joe]

Yo, when you get home and rewind the tape.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, B. Yo, yo, man, he smashed.

[Fat Joe]

You down on the phone.

[Eric Sermon]

The. Okay, yo, I got you.

[Fat Joe]

Who's some other guys who've okayed you and never showed up? Like TI Ti is one on the.

[Eric Sermon]

The. The text. Yo, he sent it. No response.

[Fat Joe]

You know, man, I used.

[Eric Sermon]

And listen, I was one of those guys. I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Fat Joe]

You was one too.

[Eric Sermon]

Kanye west told me. Snoop told me one time isn't this and that. That didn't know. So I didn't even get mad because I was that person that one time, you know, didn't do it on purpose. Maybe something's going on at the time. Yeah, but. So I can't get mad at him. I couldn't get mad at such a. I thought Nori did it one time, but when it went straight to my email, I would have never known. Cause it didn't tell my on the phone that I got an email. So I'm like, nori, yo, damn. I hit you a month ago. What up? He said, eric, I've been sent that.

[Fat Joe]

So again, on the email.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, it was on the email.

[Fat Joe]

You know, artists say, Remy. Remy would be dmx. He would tell her he's gonna do a song with her and she'll come back. This is a young Remy. She'll come back. And I'd be like. I said, yo, he ain't doing us. I be like, you know, it's certain artists you would meet at. That's what happened with me when I met R. Kelly. R. Kelly.

[Eric Sermon]

You made the hit record.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, but R. Kelly came to me. I seen him All Star Weekend. He said, yo, Joe, I want to work with you. I said, brother, do not lie to me, right? I said, kels, don't lie to me. I'm not the guy. I was still very ghetto. So I was like, yo, don't lie to me. Three fat joes ago and 24 chinchillas ago. I was just chilling out like this Chain, chiller, refrigerator. Hold up.

[Eric Sermon]

What year was that, Joe?

[Fat Joe]

I don't know, because I was battling.

[Eric Sermon]

With you on the radio with records. With that hit record. I think it was 2001. 2002. Either I was battling with you with music or either react. But for some reason, we was on the chart. Me, you, Sean Paul and Missy ballin, big boys. 2002. I think that week, 2001.

[Fat Joe]

Okay, so 201, Philly all star. He told me, gonna do a song with me. I'm like, yo, bro, don't lie. Like, I was just way too ghetto at that time. And I went down to Orlando. We cut it. You know what I'm saying? Song changed my life. But, you know, we talking about guys who you meet and you swear you're gonna do a song with. Then they disappear. And I used to have, like, Remy would come up to. A couple of guys would come up to me and be like, yo, I met such and such. He said, he's doing the song with me, B. I'm like, bro, wish upon a green clover.

[Eric Sermon]

He said, remy Ma, dmx, that he.

[Fat Joe]

Was gonna do a record with her premature. She was mad young. I was like, I think she could have got that.

[Eric Sermon]

But Joe said, hell, no, that's not going to happen.

[Fat Joe]

He did it to Tone Sunshine. Love Tone Sunshine. Like, Tony. Oh, my God, you incredible. Tony went to la, hung out with that dude for like a fucking week. When he went to do the verse, he fell asleep in the booth. Some shit. Tony was like, yo, send me home, God. Like. Like, I can't do it no more. After 60 games of pool and this and that and riding his cars and all that. Tone was like, yo, Send me home. It is what it is. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes.

[Eric Sermon]

Listen, man, I was one of them, B.

[Fat Joe]

Easily.

[Eric Sermon]

So. So. I know.

[Joe Budden]

Oh, you.

[Eric Sermon]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Fat Joe]

But.

[Eric Sermon]

But. No, no, but. Kiss. But you missed it. I was one of them. That's why I don't even look at it. I was one of them, I promise you. N would say I was like, yo, and. And it be production most of the time. Sometimes I'd be like, I just didn't do it.

[Fat Joe]

But Nard Alexander, he saved my life. I was. I was already.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah.

[Fat Joe]

Like, I was in the Bronx, caked up, and I refused to move. Even though I was in the nicer part, it was still thrice Nick 1 and 1. And my wife was like, yo, we got to get out of here. All these strange cars keep coming around here and this and this and that. And so I hit up Bernard, but now I was like, come to Jersey, bro. We be over here.

[Eric Sermon]

It was brand new.

[Fat Joe]

Changed my life.

[Eric Sermon]

Brand new it was. Got the townhouse of water inside that building, though. Kisser was me, Joe Dave Hosda, too short. Ended up moving over there. So we was oiling.

[Fat Joe]

Well, you know what's crazy is I knew they was hiding 50 Cent. After 50 Cent got shot, I'm waiting for.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, they drove into the poker.

[Fat Joe]

50'S coming, right? But he don't know I knew where he was at. You know what I'm saying? But, you know.

[Eric Sermon]

But Bernard was managing her. Yeah. Huh? Bernard was managing.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah. It was none of my business.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, yeah.

[Fat Joe]

At the time, I didn't really know either side or whatever. And they was like, yo, kid 50 Cent, he just got hit up. I'm taking the ball. I was like, all right. You know what I'm saying? Like, what you want me to do? They act, you know, we had a good time over there. Let's talk about the new process.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay, good.

[Fat Joe]

Okay. Okay.

[Eric Sermon]

We had enough because we flexed. Jada went to the bathroom. Cause he wanted him by himself. And then we had the product promoted. And you flex about what time?

[Fat Joe]

It's a new project.

[Eric Sermon]

You got the Eddie Murphy shit where you can close the roof.

[Fat Joe]

No Eddie Murphy. Let me tell you something. That documentary, that's how I want to see my OGs. Now. After you, we have Bill Bellamy. That's really what I wanted. I don't want to talk to you about Eddie Murphy and all that, but I watched. You saw the Eddie Murphy documentary? Yes. That shit was fired.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah.

[Fat Joe]

And that's how I want to see my OGs big.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. We never saw him flex before like.

[Fat Joe]

That, dying broke and all this and this and that.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm just happy, Joe, you know, nobody. I keep telling you, we're not taught. If we was taught literacy about money and how to do certain things. Paris was the one that showed me about homes because he bought them first, early. I'm like, you know, what are you doing, you know, with the. With the houses and stuff? I didn't have no house at first. He did. I had an apartment, and I didn't know. And then Bert Padell was everybody's accountant. So Bert Padell was doing what he can do, but he was a crook. No, Bert would just get you what you needed. But he was switching the. He was switching your social numbers back then. So for the gig, to get credit.

[Fat Joe]

Don't forget to go take a piss break.

[Joe Budden]

Let me hear about.

[Fat Joe]

That.

[Joe Budden]

I want to hear about Burt.

[Fat Joe]

You don't want to hear about Burt.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah, I want to hear what Burt was. Let me hear. Let me hear what Burke was doing.

[Eric Sermon]

Now, Burt. The bank was in the downstairs. So say if you're young and you're new. See, I didn't. My social number wasn't the social number that he had till I got to go get a Social Security card with my mom's one time. And it was a different number. That's when I noticed, okay, before you heard about the scams of getting dead people, getting whatever like that. That's what was happening. So if I wanted the new bins or a home or something like that, I didn't have credit. But here. You got credit now because here's the new social. It wasn't said like that until you look at it. You know what I'm saying? But that was, you know, again, something that we didn't. We didn't know till later.

[Joe Budden]

Bird faces was it. And then early Bird was already.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but we didn't know. We didn't know he had every client. Every. Everybody was with Bury everyone. Actors to whatever was with was him. But when I went to get a new Social Security card, and it was a whole different number. And then I found out, okay, this is how you can get things with these socials. When I got. When I learned stuff. But again, being. Being taught about money. We didn't know about money. Everybody had the same program. Lawyer, accountant, business management, the whole nine. I know the lawyer was working with the label to. Later on, no matter how funny they speak to you, everybody is in cahoots with. With each other. So this is how it Works. But you didn't learn that. You think everybody's just cool, but the business is. It is a business, you know, and you find out later on. So that's how people get stuck. And we get irs and we. You know, people go to prison and go to jail for such and such for not doing that. Uncle Sam is real. You don't pay, and people don't file. If you file, you. You don't. It's like you're not ducking, but if you file, then you in the good. But when you don't. When you don't say nothing, that's when they come and get you.

[Fat Joe]

When they came and got needed.

Perfect time counting. Me.

I had an attorney that I really trusted and I really, really loved. Went to his kids, bar mitzvahs, family cookouts, this, this, that. My accountant that I had. His son became a quadriplegic. So he had to tend to his son because he was in an accident. So my attorney that I trusted and loved forever introduced me to an accountant. This accountant is the guy who stole my money and I eventually went to jail for. So I never fucked with this guy again. My. My. My lawyer, I told him, yo, bro, I can't fuck with you no more. You set me up with this guy. Now, I seen him yesterday. I'm in Miami. I got a private show for Harborview. All of it, I seen that. Know the mic, you know, I'm there. But Harbor View, baby. Let's go, Sharice. So it's like I'm up in there, you know, Laura Piana, you know, he said big money was in the building, so I had to throw the.

[Jadakiss]

Laura.

[Eric Sermon]

I don't even know who that is. Oh, yo, what is that?

[Fat Joe]

Don't buy a. Don't buy a handkerchief in that bitch. That shit real deal. You know what I'm talking about, Danny? That shit. Another level. But anyway, I come out the elevator and I see him. I come out the elevator and I see him. Last time I saw him was at Chris Lighty Rest In Peace funeral. He tried to talk to me. I just came out of jail. I was like, yo, my man, don't talk to me. Don't come around me. Don't talk to me. Because he also disappeared when I had the case, right? So, boom. I seen him the other day, St. Regis in Miami. And he was like, hey, Joe. And I said, what's up? I kept it moving after that, and I don't think I'm over him introducing me to the accountant who kind of destroyed my life. And I lost all my money, went to jail. This, this. I just, you know, I tried to be. I was courteous. Yo, what's up? But I still felt the way. You know what I'm saying? I went upstairs to my room. I was like, did he set me up? Did he not set me? See, there you go. Seek the kingdom.

[Joe Budden]

Seek the kingdom. Seek. Sometimes you got to smack the shit out of somebody, then seek the king.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. Cause you went to. You went to jail for that.

[Fat Joe]

Jail. I also felt like I was somebody that in my own, you know, they. They could say I'm delusional, but I felt like I was somebody who never really got caught. And they wanted me. Whether it was little, big or something, these boys wanted me. And I felt like somebody got jammed up and they said, yo, who you got? Fat Joe? Him. Get him. How could you give me him in the platter? And the worst thing is you got somebody you trust. That's how they get you with somebody you really, really trust.

[Eric Sermon]

It's so kids, this whole is a business when you. Everybody works together the same way Spotify works with the labels. Gotta put that out there real quick. Yeah, somebody's making some money. Listen, if the president of Spotify in 2024, he made $300 million, he don't own the company. He's just the president. He made 300 million. What do you think Spotify is getting? So they're giving us 0.4 cent. Now Congress has passed the law. They're giving us one penny, right? So 1 million. 1 million streams get you 14 grand right? Before 100,000 streams, that get you $200. So all this whole system is fucked up for us. But for the labels and the people who own Spotify, the president, not the owner, Joe, he made $300 million in 2024.

[Fat Joe]

That's great.

[Eric Sermon]

And then he had a bigger.

[Fat Joe]

Yo, listen, 2025 been crook since the beginning of time.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, you made 400 million, 460 million in 2025.

[Fat Joe]

They bring it. Poor people, they got talent. They use them up. And by the time they learn the game, they'll dust you off and make you the old school at noon and get the new young person to jerk. And they just keep doing that and doing that and doing that. And people like Spotify and all these people are all.

[Eric Sermon]

Selling product. Whoever made up the point that 1500 spins is one CD, so whoever made up the point that we only get.

[Fat Joe]

Less than one cent, Fucking head, boy.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, one less than made that up. Less than one cent, though, too, is crazy. And then we getting a penny. At least with the label signed to, we got a quarter at least.

[Fat Joe]

I said all the time, if you sell. Let me ask this.

[Joe Budden]

100.

[Fat Joe]

Let me go right now.

[Eric Sermon]

I know, I don't know.

[Fat Joe]

Let me explain something. You put your pain, your soul, everything into this. Let's say it's a CD. If you sold it yourself on the corner for 9.99 and somebody told you you was gonna get 8 cents, you're not doing that shit. You don't work for fucking cbs.

[Eric Sermon]

You're right.

[Fat Joe]

Right. This is the only business that glorifies you getting roll.

[Eric Sermon]

You get right.

[Fat Joe]

And the minute you learn. You seen Prince with all that slave.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, no. He saw him first. The first one.

[Fat Joe]

Him.

[Eric Sermon]

Alonzo McMillan was the first one that started doing it.

[Fat Joe]

The second he started going like this. You.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, you are.

[Fat Joe]

I'm also looking forward to this Michael Jackson movie because I think they're finally going to start speaking truth to light. To where why he got attacked like that. You see, you got to understand. We didn't know the sophisticated ways of brainwashing the people and smearing people. They smeared Michael Jackson the greatest of all time. They had us thinking he was crazy.

[Eric Sermon]

Right?

[Fat Joe]

Right now, everybody rocking Botox.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah.

[Fat Joe]

People bleaching their skin like it's some normal shit. People sleeping and fucking. What's my man, Forest Whitaker sleep?

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Right.

[Fat Joe]

The richer you get, right? You doing what Michael Jackson.

[Eric Sermon]

Jackson's doing, right?

[Fat Joe]

Buying art, you thinking, right? This guy's crazy weird. He actually was ahead of his time.

[Eric Sermon]

But even though we never thought Michael was getting jerked, though. Pause. We didn't know that was happening.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, but what I'm trying to tell you is that.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but I'm saying.

[Fat Joe]

But we love Michael.

[Joe Budden]

Different kind of jerk. Pause.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but I'm saying.

[Jadakiss]

But he.

[Eric Sermon]

For him to come out and say Tye Mottola's get, you know, whatever. Like, we never thought that was happening.

[Fat Joe]

Tommy Mottola's my friend.

[Eric Sermon]

No, no, no, no, no. But what I'm saying. Sony, he's saying.

[Joe Budden]

That's nuts.

[Fat Joe]

Sony. My thing is.

[Eric Sermon]

Hold up. Let's go back.

[Fat Joe]

Michael J.

[Joe Budden]

No, it's a pro artist, man. For the artist.

[Fat Joe]

No, I'm for the artist, too.

[Eric Sermon]

And I also say, hold up, before you start. One time I thought you was getting ready to say, it's better. That's what I'm talking about. Now, if only my 8,000 fans give me one dollar, I made eight grand. That's more than me. Spotify the whole nine. Now, if you give me. If 8,000 people give me a hundred dollars, it's $800,000, right? At the end of the day, if you have a name, why would you want to go and do all that work on that album and go put it on that platform? I don't understand. Not the people that's new. The people who have names. Don't forget, Joe, you can make a record right now. I don't give a fuck how big it is. It doesn't matter. You already, Joe, you already famous. You're already iconic. You're not going to get no bigger. The record's not going to get no bigger. You're not going to make no bigger record. It ain't going to happen. You already you. But if you decide to make music, why not sell it yourself? You already you.

[Fat Joe]

Where would you sell it at? Like www.you do it on your.

[Eric Sermon]

Your own platform. When I do the product, when I'm doing whatever, whatever, you got fans. If 8,000 people give me $28 times two is 16, it's 160 grand. It doesn't matter. Everything you can do direct to consumer is back. Now every WWW is never left. That means when every time somebody goes on tv, every star, everybody with product, you got to go to a website, it's the same shit. Go back to that, put that Shopify and not fucking, fucking band camp on your shit and go, yo, go get my shit here. And again, let the platform that take it. That's promotion. But at least you got people. Listen, Ice Cream said that once he reached a million, he wanted to reach 2 million, right? Sell records. But he left a million people back here. That was his fans. Your core fans ain't going nowhere. If you tell them to do something, they're gonna so all of us here that you went platinum. You don't need a million fans. I said 8,000 people. Give me $200, right? It's $1.6 million. They're going to pay for what you're going to give them. That means merchandise, the whole nine. I got to preach that because again, that's what you do if you selling material. If you'll be selling that though, too, even though you again with a company. But imagine if you didn't. You're Fat Joe, you're Kiss. It doesn't matter. You do the marketing promotion on yourself and bring them to your platform.

[Fat Joe]

I like to learn new shit every day, and that's what this show is.

[Eric Sermon]

I just give you the numbers. Like Jay said, numbers don't lie. It don't matter. They give you 50 bucks. 8,000 people. I'm not talking about your millions of fans. I said 8,000 and give you 50 bucks. 8 times 5 is 4. That's $400,000 from only 8,000 people giving you 50 bucks. Talking about money. Come on, man. You talk about. That's why people sit here and be like, you want to go broke? You don't want to do something. Here's how you don't go broke. Here's how you have. You know, you have making money while you sleep. Them EPMD bookers has While I'm sleeping. The dot EPMD shirt is why I'm sleeping. That money comes in while you sleep.

[Fat Joe]

We got a new project.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes, brother.

[Fat Joe]

Tell the people, man, because you've been philosophical today. So we really want you to talk.

[Eric Sermon]

That.

[Joe Budden]

That music.

[Eric Sermon]

The music.

[Fat Joe]

Well, I got one question. Yeah.

I got one question. So you sample Marvin Gaye.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes.

[Fat Joe]

Right. How much did it cost you to sample?

[Eric Sermon]

200,000.

[Fat Joe]

It costed you 200, right?

[Eric Sermon]

Because it caught me that. Because when Bernard took the CD and went to la, he went to a convention that was happening with Clear Channel. They played the record, they added the record. So now they get to stick me up.

[Joe Budden]

Did it too fast.

[Eric Sermon]

Did it too fast. So it was 1, 2. It was 150 for Jan, God bless the dead, the wife. And then was $50,000 for the lawyer. But. But it didn't matter because Clive gave me 4 million. So that whole thing of how it went. I went to J Records afterwards because Clive wanted to sign me.

[Fat Joe]

The reason why I bring that up, right, Because Pharrell getting sued. He didn't clear.

[Eric Sermon]

He didn't clear it. That's it.

[Fat Joe]

What, they got sued for like 7 million or something?

[Eric Sermon]

7 or 8? Yep.

[Fat Joe]

Pharrell a smart little. Little. No, no, no.

[Eric Sermon]

Well, he's kind of.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, he interpolated.

[Eric Sermon]

He interpolated the song.

[Fat Joe]

He did listen.

[Eric Sermon]

He said he didn't know that was the part. Yeah, he said. Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

Yo, it's always the thing to say, man, when you get caught.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

I don't know.

[Fat Joe]

It's the smartest thing to say, but it's the dumbest thing when you know the planet Earth knew he jacked Marvin Gaye. The whole.

World when you eat.

[Eric Sermon]

We first heard it.

[Fat Joe]

Same song.

[Eric Sermon]

Same song. Yeah.

[Joe Budden]

They don't send us no Louie. Yeah, they gonna send this.

[Fat Joe]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Eric Sermon]

Hold up. Rewind back. 1 hour, 57 minutes, 36 seconds. Take that part out.

[Fat Joe]

We ain't Doing that. This is interesting. What I'm saying is, if I was around Pharrell, I would have said, yo, settle with these people. Cause this, it is what it is. He was inspired by them whether he do or not.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but listen, you missing one Ed Sheeran shit sounds like let's get it on, nigga. And he won play Ed Sheeran's Marvin Gaye's, Whatever. It sound just like let's get on. And he won.

[Fat Joe]

Let me tell you some crazy shit. I didn't think he did. I went to the videotape.

[Eric Sermon]

No, play the record.

[Fat Joe]

I did. I swear to God I did. I went when he won just the same way you tell him yes, man, Sherman than that. And I couldn't really make the same.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, yo, yo, yo, this what? Yo, I swear.

[Fat Joe]

Hold up, hold up.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, when I watch this show is his reactions. Because that what makes. It makes y' all chemistry. I swear. Because he leans back and he does this. And like, yo, let me tell you something.

[Fat Joe]

You know what this is? This is the Honeymooners, where Ralph Grampton, Art Carney.

[Eric Sermon]

Let's talk about the project now.

[Fat Joe]

Let's go.

[Jadakiss]

Let's go to the.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay. The Dynamic Duos. So I had it four years ago before COVID I had the idea before you heard Nas. I figured that my colleagues wasn't working. I was wondering why nobody was making records, right? So I kind of got upset about that in my head, like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to make records for them. If they have studio problem. Nobody making no beat for them the whole time. So Covid came. So that took two years off. Kevin came and got me. Kevin Lyles. So we did the partnership at 300. 300. Leo Cohen sells it for $450 million to Atlantic. That took a year or something.

[Joe Budden]

Then, nice check.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but isn't that crazy? Leo got 450 from Atlantic, which is Mike and Julie. People that he put on, put there.

[Fat Joe]

Now, that was a whole play. Keep going if you figure that one out.

[Eric Sermon]

So. So that was the old.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah, that was sell to Styles P's running phenomenal now. Let me sell the Jadakiss records to Styles Pete, he got the bag over here. He gonna throw you the smithereens like, yo, they all ran.

[Eric Sermon]

And now let me tell you something.

[Fat Joe]

When he sold that shit, Kevin Lyle's my next door neighbor, right? It was the first sighting I saw Russell SIMMONS in like 10 years that it was next door. He called me and said, hello. Come next door. Everybody ran off with the bag their whole Crew. They are the best that ever did it.

[Eric Sermon]

Kevin's loaded. That whole. It's all definitely Kevin, Leo, the whole definition.

[Fat Joe]

Julie Kaiser.

[Eric Sermon]

They took care of everybody.

[Fat Joe]

All of them, like in the. I mean, bad mania. All of them is caked up to the movie.

[Eric Sermon]

Randy Acker. We got Randy Acker.

[Fat Joe]

But what I'm saying is they came in this game and said, all right, this is our crew, and we gonna eat forever.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. Make sure they don't eat.

[Fat Joe]

Simmons showed up. They was throwing like the. We sold the company for 400 million. Because they first said it was Kevin Laos. Now they were saying Leo Cohen. I'm sure it was.

[Eric Sermon]

You know, it's not Kevin. That's Leo's company.

[Fat Joe]

You know, they were saying Kevin Lyles. Kevin Lyles threw a party. He lives next door to me.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, of course.

He got money.

[Fat Joe]

Trust me.

[Eric Sermon]

He got.

[Fat Joe]

Kevin Lyles. Lives 1A, I'm 1A, he's 1B. His house is right next door to mine.

[Eric Sermon]

Wow.

[Fat Joe]

Russell Simmons facetimes me out of nowhere. I ain't seen him in 10 years.

[Jadakiss]

He.

[Fat Joe]

He said, come over. We're celebrating Kevin selling the company. I'm letting my fat flow. I got no shirt on, no nothing. I just put a T shirt on. I go over there, put on my shorts. I go over there. And they celebrating. And I just. The way I think, you know what I mean? The hustler in me. I said, damn. This man came over here to pick up bag they sold. Russell Simmons came and picked up the bag. They just sold it. Check is in, wires in. Russell came from fucking Malaysia, some shit.

[Eric Sermon]

To get the bag.

[Fat Joe]

And he's going back. Everybody's caked up, right? Is what I'm trying to tell you. Every member of the crew caught something.

[Eric Sermon]

You know, I just signed that deal with. With Leo. Well, not a deal with Partners in. In AI now, but that's another flex.

[Fat Joe]

But partners in AI.

[Eric Sermon]

I went to his crib, right? I looked at the picture on the wall, was a baby picture. Me and my man went there. Baby picture. I said, how much that picture cost? In my head, I'm just saying that it might cost whatever. He said, Yeah, I paid 12 grand for it, but it's worth 5 million. It was a picture of a baby.

This up, you know, whatever.

[Fat Joe]

I want to put this out there. Yo, I'm a graffiti legend. I want to meet Banksy.

[Eric Sermon]

Who's that?

[Fat Joe]

Banksy's the illest artist. World never shows his face. Yo, yo, I don't know what's wrong.

[Eric Sermon]

I don't know.

[Fat Joe]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay, listen.

[Jadakiss]

He don't believe nothing.

[Eric Sermon]

Listen.

[Fat Joe]

I don't know why. Wait.

[Eric Sermon]

Ok, listen. Let's go back. So dynamic duo, yo, listen, listen, listen, listen. Let me just get Banksy.

[Fat Joe]

Somebody know Banksy? Fat Joe wants to meet the real Banksy face to face. I don't rat. I don't nothing. He's an artist. Nobody sees his face. But I'm a huge fan. We don't know where he's at because then we would have found him in the uk and then it could be. And it could be in Afghanistan, wherever. My nigga Banksy just don't.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay, well, Banksy Fat don't need you. Okay, one second. Okay. So after that, the shit was three and a half years so far. So now I do the biggest, smallest Tupac record, right? So I get Biggie cleared, but the Tupac estate, I offered his sister $100,000. I give you 100 grand and you can keep the rights to the record. She didn't say. Yeah, I'll say no. But she wasn't coming back fast enough with the reaction. So I'm like, so what's going on? I found out that she was going through it with Universal for them using Tupac music and making money off of.

[Fat Joe]

It in the move.

[Eric Sermon]

No, this period. Yeah, yeah, that too. So that delayed me so. But I waited as long as I wanted to because I wanted to have that on the project, right? So, anyway, I want to say I.

[Fat Joe]

Don'T know how I cleared Tupac. And his lawyer owns.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. At that time, but now she's suing.

[Fat Joe]

She. She need to get it. Like, I did not understand when I was paying the lawyer. Yeah, the hundred.

[Eric Sermon]

I went through every. Bernard called everyone that did the Tupac before with, With. With the RL shit. When you saw the video, whenever we went to those people, we went to everybody. Nothing. So that. That gave more time.

[Fat Joe]

I thought, it's Mom's fact. She must have left it to the lawyer. I didn't have no clue. I didn't understand that a lawyer, Rob Waltham thing's own stupid, right?

[Eric Sermon]

So then I had prodigy, new vocals, the whole nine. So whatever. I called my lawyer. He called, which is his friend Kevin. Then I talked to Priory's wife on the phone. She sound like she was saying, don't worry about it. I'm gonna check the record out. Whatever. I get back to you, right? No call, I'm texting. There's nothing there. So I'm like, so that's a holdup. So I get that late that took time. I called Sean Price's wife. Then I talked to Drew.

[Jadakiss]

Ha. Right.

[Eric Sermon]

She says, call Drew. You know, I've got Drew number. So. But Noah, you know, good guy, Drew. She calls you. She says, cool. I still took time. Nate Dog Estate. I got to call these people and say, too, do you want the money? Just tell me a thing. It just took time. Eventually, they didn't want nothing. So you see all these people on the album that passed away, it take time for the estates. Because don't forget, if they can't find Kiss, then we gotta wait to find Kiss. The estate means everybody on the estate has to say yes if they own the paper. So you can just have one person.

[Fat Joe]

Or you can have a sample. One time it went to the point of, like, the man's dead. He got no more family members or nothing like that. We went to the burial type shit. They went to the. You know, the sample. The people who cleared the sample, they was like, yo, he ain't cashed a check in 13 years. There's no. Like, we was looking like, you gotta clear these samples. Cause then it's on you if you let them go, right? And they come back and sue you for that real money, right?

[Eric Sermon]

So anyway, that's all that happened. And now is coming December 5th. So, again, wow. This is volume one, right?

So volume one two.

[Fat Joe]

Ain't just everybody who's dead. Because I heard the record.

[Eric Sermon]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The Bird. The record was sold, but that was a while. That's when they sold 300. I didn't get a chance to get that. That was the first record that came, and it's gone now. Oh, but Redder Meth, Snoop Dogg and Nate. Helter Skelter, Mop, Cypress Hills, epmd, Dog Pound, Conway, the Machine Game, Lil Wayne, Mob D. This is Volume one.

And Public Enemy. Right? Volume one.

[Joe Budden]

Make sure I get on Volume two, though.

[Eric Sermon]

I got you.

[Fat Joe]

So.

[Eric Sermon]

So this is what I ended up doing through dms. And everybody who I. Who I kind of called or dm, everybody said yes. Some. Some didn't say. But again, I was able to get stuff started at the time. And then certain people, like I called Dougie Freshman Rick first. That's what I really wanted to do because I was trying to do. I'm gonna do the show in my head all over again, my way. And my version. So. But. And I talked to Andre 2000 way early, offered them $100,000 too. But I did UGK. I did eight ball, MJG. I did naughty These are names I did Smith and Wesson. I got this already on that, too. For the back. And then you got the people too. Like you want to. Dude caught the locks. Ray and Ghost, Black Star, Su. That's already. You know that you trying to get to make sure I'm covering the bases up. But before Nas did this, Joe, I was trying to bring my colleagues just to say you don't got to stop making records. But then time went by, and now Mass Appeal did what they did. So now everybody's working now. But, you know, so big, so.

[Fat Joe]

But everybody ain't always good, though. You know what I'm saying? So right. Like, everybody working. Everybody ain't always right. Be clear on that.

[Joe Budden]

Hey, the plug in, man. We got something to play. You bought us something.

[Eric Sermon]

Mop.

[Fat Joe]

Oh, my God. Frankie Crocker.

[Joe Budden]

That James.

[Fat Joe]

They got the AC on Alaska.

[Eric Sermon]

Nah, it's just. It's just mop.

[Fat Joe]

You know, the AC is on like, jail level.

[Eric Sermon]

Sidewalk executives.

[Fat Joe]

No, you go in jail, that's.

[Eric Sermon]

And then record the store. Sidewalk executives. Who called them? Who call themselves that?

[Fat Joe]

Sidewalk executive.

[Jadakiss]

With my.

It's going up when we pull up we ride.

This is street certified Fire off weapons you with the sidewalk accept I done play my part Done gave my heart through my career Done made my mark Imagine where I'm from nobody walk faster than a going to get get his imaginary after getting his ass beat up I'm MP up from feet up I'm seat up I'm loud from the mall how about the back seat holding my nuts s5 something double paw I kick it with the youngest every bastard on the block.

Bring that daddy back.

[Fat Joe]

Told him oh my God I don't think they listen.

Much final life, baby much finer life.

[Jadakiss]

This is street certified Fire off weapons in you with the sidewalk executive I done played my part Done gave my heart through my career Done made my mark Come on, imagine where I'm from Nobody walk faster than a going to get his imaginary gun after getting his ass beat up I'm moped up from feet up I'm cheated up I'm loud from the mall how about the back seat holding my nuts s5 something double park I kick it with the yellow young Is every facet on a block a shooter? So you see your lawyer laughing with the prostitute.

Bring that daddy back Knickknack patty whack get you in your dad's place up when we pull up can we ride?

This is street certified Fire off weapons in you with the sidewalk except guns up when we pull up can we ride grand feeling you don't want to collide this is true street certified fire off weapons in you with the sidewalk executive when I text so everybody know me images of the 556 is my emoji the bigger homie he does told me he can show me a different route to the bag and I ain't got to have a magnum on me.

[Fat Joe]

New York hip hop swag on me.

[Jadakiss]

Resume on display you can't put a flag on me down the floor known as the people champ I'm ask capital with a deeper tan I give you cap, it's like you ship the people hand I still have staff meetings with killers in the band have rap shows we the gorillas in the stand tackled in front of your fans you a floozy move loosely bougie I'm in the eye rock triple black bucket hat.

[Eric Sermon]

Executive.

[Jadakiss]

Star of the movie it's one jump when we pull up then we ride.

To collide this is street certified fire off weapons in you with the sidewalk except guns up when we pull up then we ride ground fail and you don't want to collide this is street certified fire off weapons you with the sidewalk executive.

[Fat Joe]

That was beautiful.

That was incredible, brother.

[Joe Budden]

I think Billy and fame every time, man.

[Eric Sermon]

I know you had excitement. I had a great time at this show. Y' all people that's watching this tour to be on this sofa and to be with two again, it doesn't matter, man. Like successfulness. Joe, you. We was to sit back and be like, yo, damn, he got another one. Or he got another one. Because in this to come back and do every decade, don't forget, this is decade from the 90s, 2000s, and then the late. So it's three decades of still being able to be relevant and still be able to say you was dropping music and not just regular shit. This was big records being made. It was hard to do that. People said, too. How did Eric be able to come back and come back with music from EPMD 1988 to 2001? No, that's. People don't do that. That's a feat to be doing that. You know what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, though, you know, again, this shit right here is what people talked about. What De La Soul felt on the sofa. Like, this is a show that you guys listen, man. Y' all my boys. But it's different shows. Y' all came up fast. You know what I'm saying?

[Fat Joe]

Like, yeah, we not playing.

[Eric Sermon]

No, it was fast. People probably Thought regular niggas be hating, like, oh, that sh. Ain't gonna work.

[Fat Joe]

Nobody was saying that.

[Eric Sermon]

I know. I'm one of. I'm telling you, I was out there.

[Fat Joe]

I watched the funniest guys to the richest guy. Yeah, I know what all the. Nobody was watching them.

[Eric Sermon]

Nobody was believing. They were like, oh, it's ain't gonna work. Ain't gonna work.

[Fat Joe]

I knew it would. You want to know why? Because we respect the culture. We respect.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but it was. It was the personalities.

[Joe Budden]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

About those who don't hang together and they don't talk.

[Fat Joe]

The way I look at this. I look at this. No different than Shaquille o'. Neal. I'm Charles Barkley. You Kenny Smith. Oh, okay. He really played the game. And we respect and salute the legends on another level. You understand what I'm saying? Like, I used to watch these hip hop documentaries, and they have guys on there commentating like, they knew. And I'm like, I don't know you, and I gotta know everybody.

[Eric Sermon]

Hold up. You got the locks.

Jay's like, what are you talking about? Cause if I couldn't get them that.

[Fat Joe]

Way, you was gonna get them exactly. Vocals they let down somewhere. Damn. Kiss. You see that man making up the pasta noose.

[Joe Budden]

Dirty dog, they doing.

[Eric Sermon]

Hey, yo, yo. But listen, it was just my version of it, Joe. Until I get it to happen, I had to make certain.

[Fat Joe]

I ain't going to lie to you. I don't want to die. But they definitely have 100 Fat Joe verses in different studios out there that I just did one day and kept it moving, knowing that they would benefit off of it. I done went in regular bullshit studios. Kick 16 broke out. That's almost like, here you go. This is a retirement. So when, you know, Fat Joe's out of here and they put together the pasty, you know, y' all got some. Y' all can make a couple of dollars off that, you know what I'm saying? You know, I put the together.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm just gonna bring out.

[Fat Joe]

I'm DJ Zaddy Black. Yeah, pull out your verse from Fat Joe. Pull out your verse. You got a couple of dollars coming your way. They all looking like, huh. He knows we kept that. Yeah, I know you.

[Eric Sermon]

Hey, kids. You probably won't even remember in. Nobody's going to know because it's a record. That again, it didn't go, you know, So I could have asked him and said, yo. And it still would have been like, oh, you heard that new. You know what I'm saying? I could have did that. But again. But now since we know whatever is it is what it is, I'm going to play it for sister and giggles.

[Fat Joe]

B.

[Eric Sermon]

Yes, that was dope, B. So you didn't hear that yet?

[Fat Joe]

No. Yeah, but I'm not talking about that. I'm just talking about. The only thing in the history of me of life I didn't appreciate was like Biggie, after he died, they was making.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, yeah, I know, I know.

[Fat Joe]

All type of. I was just like.

[Eric Sermon]

Same vocals though. I know.

[Fat Joe]

Oh, same with the words.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, different.

[Fat Joe]

He freestyled it in the. In the radio and changed.

[Eric Sermon]

Why they like that?

[Fat Joe]

And they did. Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

That you're not going to believe when you hear my shit. You're going to think them two was in it together.

Yeah. This is called. It's called where you at preaching the locksucker.

[Joe Budden]

You ain't say styles is the best I'm same the disgusting what up then start the discussion it ends as a homie that's the body in Hudson lucky to be found by the river patrol he a piece of flushing digging a hole which rapper said he the best Tell him Ghost said he's the and told him to say less and give him my address yeah the top 10 as soft as the jazz best put my blades to their skin and stretch it like spin deck but now I'm on some entrepreneur spot seats in the car king of God full of that raw at least as if Violate hit him with at least a clip knocked out his eyeballs he ain't even peep the ghost numb like Leon cocaine and E mix simply don't give a cool wanna re.

Right here though New York.

[Jadakiss]

Where you at Lox where you at?

[Joe Budden]

Right here when you hear them three letters you know that they represented I could go anywhere as long as I got the I do it for the east is long as I got the coast go out on my shield as long as I got my oath and hip hop can never be dead long as I got a post grown man rap that's the kitty section I was.

[Eric Sermon]

A fly on the wall the biggie.

[Joe Budden]

Session sold it all up to spit it out with aggression felt the way about it every sense with affection you better believe that the bottles is on deck Haze glue, cookies, gelato is on deck Never sober is never old roll out 211 deep in 11 Rovers Head and shoulders that's where they point them things out playing the game see how many heads we could bring back yeah at least it be authentic when you hear them three letters you know that they represented lox.

[Fat Joe]

Where you at?

[Joe Budden]

Right here.

[Jadakiss]

Where you at?

[Joe Budden]

Right here. When you hear them three letters, you know that they represented.

That's crazy.

[Fat Joe]

Do you remember that verse?

You don't even remember it, right? You know, sometimes I go overseas and they have an after party and they start playing Fat Joe Records. I swear to God, I sit there like I don't remember them shits. Yeah, they be playing. I'll be like, where I do that?

[Eric Sermon]

But everybody that that play heard you just now and you watched the room. Niggas was like, what is that?

[Fat Joe]

That shit was incredible.

[Eric Sermon]

Again, the rhymes was fan. But again, I could have. But I didn't want to do that, because, again, I know how artists be, too. Yo, I did that before. I said, I know that, but it's a new record to everybody.

[Fat Joe]

I want Eric Sherman to produce my album. Take my whole shit.

[Eric Sermon]

Are you gonna play? You gonna play golf?

[Fat Joe]

Love Juan Cheeto. Give him the motherfucking.

[Eric Sermon]

Just the last one. We gonna go.

[Fat Joe]

We gotta go. We gotta go. Eric Sherman.

[Eric Sermon]

But this is. This is a lower vibration of what I would do. This is Conway the Machine, Lil Wayne and Game.

It's gonna be kind of long because it's slow, too. But it's the vibe, that's all.

[Fat Joe]

It's over.

[Eric Sermon]

Everything starts from now. We all go down unless we stay together. Ain't no one man above the crowd, you know that I ain't, I ain't never gonna be.

[Fat Joe]

You remember that God mo new God flow I'm God's son 12 ghouls, my apostles When I Eric, sermon is gospel My blow leave a pretty with a snot nose My blow leave a chest with a pothole Congo gorilla like I'm from Congo I go on a rap tour and velo I so the coliseums My name Colosso My hoes Doritos homie, that's nachos Condos on the top floors.

[Eric Sermon]

Picassos hanging up on the walls at.

[Fat Joe]

All of my spots, though yo, my dick smacking a tono My fans be moshing like they at rock shows My man had a button on a high pole My yams the God cook on a high stove Spit the ticket at.

[Eric Sermon]

Self Rich is just a cop Clothes, you.

[Joe Budden]

Highway to heaven no potholes I put you on that highway to heaven Take the high road God knows I'm weathering the storm still in dry clothes still got my foot on necks My five toes that shy Hoes coming out the the shells like tacos got die wholesale and pussy wholesale like Costcos I still Come with syrup like Roscoe's and I got those chickens in the trunks with no wapo that's blanco pina colada I'm your cocaina, it's sweetest vagina trap house jumping like the ramada I like the rwana get high into I feel nirvana in Cyprus I vomit these rappers are biting like Dharma and time is an issue when I send a pack out it's a missile dog food I didn't turn the trap house to a kennel brick man in Miami they calling me brick if you five, I won't charge you a nickel word.

[Eric Sermon]

Last gangster rapper alive I swear to God against all lies the only that show up to without his squad my presence is feared heart rates rise when my essence appeared no Stephen A. Smith here I don't wear my hat over my ears my influence on these rap like Hennessy and if we on the.

[Fat Joe]

Same song till it fade out you.

[Eric Sermon]

My enemy Lee Harvey and Kennedy dome shot and I mean that like saucy Santana trying to pull up my academics be so stop playing like a one hit wonders first song before I take you back to the old game with.

[Fat Joe]

The ball head and the shirt long.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm gonna be here after the earth gone when the ocean dry up weighing out fish gill smoking herb till all the dirt gone you new, you making a spot hot you ain't going to last for long it's like you shot pot hated the love at the underdog still in the drop top and noble French kissing something in one of them diesel crop tops two cubans around my neck like I got the work. Your last album sold 20,000 the first week.

[Fat Joe]

That got to hurt.

[Eric Sermon]

That's why I listen to Brent F and Papa Perk. But not before I call Eric son to make sure he got the verse.

Coming. Like a blindfold I can see the future with my eyes close Scriptures in.

[Jadakiss]

The Bible on the Bible I'm in God.

[Eric Sermon]

Vessels.

[Fat Joe]

Big time, big time, big time. December 5th. The album is called Dynamic Duo.

[Joe Budden]

Dynamic Duo.

[Fat Joe]

Dynamic Duo put the mob deep.

This ain't that, that ain't this cracking.

[Joe Budden]

Kiss give it up for each sermon.

[Eric Sermon]

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you.