Joe and Jada - Julius "Dr. J" Erving on ABA & NBA glory days, evolution of the dunk & athletes' role in civil rights era

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Episode: Joe and Jada - Julius "Dr. J" Erving on ABA & NBA Glory Days, Evolution of the Dunk & Athletes' Role in Civil Rights Era
Date: February 19, 2026

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode, recorded live during the 2026 NBA All-Star Weekend in Los Angeles, features basketball legend Julius "Dr. J" Erving with hosts Joe and Jada. The conversation explores Dr. J's transformative impact on basketball, especially the evolution of the dunk, his experiences in the ABA during a turbulent civil rights era, the responsibilities and power of celebrity athletes, and intergenerational reflections on legacy, adversity, and positive influence in both sports and society.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolution and Impact of the Dunk

• Was Dr. J the First Dunker?
  • Dr. J acknowledges he didn’t invent the dunk but helped perfect it, bringing flair and creativity:
    • "Plenty of balls were dunked before I came along... They do credit me with perfecting some of the dunk shots because...I might do little twist, turn side or whatever, because I had a real big hand. I could hold the ball with one hand...I’ve been credited with perfecting the dunk, but not inventing it." — Dr. J [05:08]
• Influences Growing Up:
  • Cited watching Wilt Chamberlain and “Jumping Johnny Green” as early inspirations for his own play style. [03:00–04:10]

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2. Experiences in the ABA and the Era’s Social Climate

• Basketball as Refuge:
  • Dr. J shares how basketball was an escape from "bad things that were happening in the world," especially during the assassinations of MLK, Malcolm X, and JFK. [06:01]
  • "Coming out of high school in '68...there was a lot of bad stuff...the Cold War...so basketball was a diversion from a lot of the things that were bad about the society that we lived in.” — Dr. J [06:01–08:03]
• Importance of the ABA:
  • Playing in the ABA provided both personal joy and professional development during challenging times.

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3. Civil Rights Era & Influential Figures

• Influence of Martin Luther King Jr.:
  • Dr. J speaks about his family’s religious and moral foundation and preference for Dr. King’s ideology:
  • "We were Christians...so they were down in the Bible Belt...so, you know, born there, bred there and we dealt with all that...I happened to follow Dr. King." — Dr. J [08:23, 50:19]
• Witnessing Tragedy and Riots:
  • Personal memories of learning about historical assassinations and their aftermath.
  • "With Martin, I mean, it was riots...suburbs, cities...because people wasn’t having it, but they couldn’t change it, and the riots didn’t change anything." — Dr. J [09:22]

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4. Responsibility, Platform, and Legacy in Sports & Beyond

• The Power of Platform:
  • "If you get a platform, you need to promote those things [peace, harmony, love]...I’ve tried to be about that. My success and my notoriety...it’s about respect, and you need to use that platform in a positive way." — Dr. J [10:59–11:28]
• Accountability and Passing the Torch:
  • Advocates for sharing wisdom and extending the hand of friendship, inspired by how Bill Russell mentored him:
    • “I was kind of say what’s in my heart, share what’s in my heart...like Bill Russell did to me, when I was nineteen...extended the hand of friendship...I like to mimic and duplicate what somebody have done for me.” — Dr. J [14:06–14:44]
  • The hosts discuss the push away from negativity/clickbait in contemporary media and the importance of positive influence. [12:48]

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5. Telling Your Own Story and Intergenerational Wisdom

• Writing Autobiographies & Documenting the Truth:

  • Dr. J on his autobiography:
    "Putting it back in the universe is important...get the story straight, first person...for my family and the generations that down the line...give them the first person." — Dr. J [14:55]

• Dealing with Trauma in Memoirs:

  • Acknowledges that revisiting trauma during autobiography writing is difficult, but integral to self-understanding. [16:12–16:42]

• The Importance of Authentic Storytelling in Hip Hop & Sports:

  • Hosts relate to Dr. J’s motivations, emphasizing the importance of documented truth for future generations:
    • "Now they start doing these hip hop documentaries...they start telling their own narrative...yo, we can’t do this because if we die...kids...not gonna get the real answer." — Joe [17:27]
  • Noted that when someone else tells your story, "never going to be right." [18:31]

• Seven Generations Principle:

  • Dr. J shares the Native American concept:
    • "They talk about doing stuff that will affect seven generations...that’s a beautiful thing." — Dr. J [19:40–21:00]
  • The hosts reflect on how negative systems (e.g., racism) were built to last generations and the need to consciously build positive legacies. [21:54]

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6. Cultural Connections, Family, and Community

• Multicultural Heritage:
  • Anecdotes about Puerto Rican and Native American roots; reflections on family bonds and their fragility after elders pass. [22:04–24:27]
• Legacy of Community Leadership:
  • Dr. J discusses maternal and paternal family roots in the South and the changing nature of family as relatives pass away. [23:55]

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7. The "Flyness" of the Era: Style, Iconography, and Social Life

• New York Legends and Swag:
  • Conversation turns lighthearted about fashion, status, and being "fly" during Dr. J’s era, compared to contemporaries like Walt "Clyde" Frazier.
    • "Dr. J was the biggest guy on the earth at that time...you was outside...you fly it in all of them forever..." — Joe [27:37–28:14]
    • Dr. J responds with humility, explains he spent a lot of time at home, focused on not making things harder for his hardworking mother. [29:32]
• Social Circles:
  • Reminisces about hanging out with Arthur Ashe, Reggie Jackson, Miles Davis, and Bill Cosby:
    • “1974, we would meet frequently at Cosby’s house...Arthur was the best tennis player in the world. You know, I had my basketball thing going...Miles was making music..." — Dr. J [31:03–31:47]
    • "That’s the Mount Rushmore of crews." — Joe [32:48]

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8. State of the Game and Representation

• Media, Race, and Athlete Self-Representation:
  • Dr. J reflects on the pressures faced by Black athletes in interviews, expectations to "represent the race," and the evolution towards more positive, representative media roles:
    • "Black athletes got interviewed. Sometimes they get played...see, that’s why we shouldn’t interview the black guys....So I was always kind of guarded with my dialogue." [36:48]
  • The ABA’s legacy as a breakthrough for Black athletes, setting the stage for representation in the NBA and other sports. [38:00]
  • Notes the challenges international and Latino athletes face with language barriers and media perceptions impacting earning potential. [39:26]

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9. Cultural Shifts and the Rise of Hip Hop

• Witnessing the Birth of Hip Hop:

  • Dr. J candidly admits he didn’t know how far hip hop would go but saw how it carved its own lane and surpassed expectations:
    • "When I heard hip hop, I had a cautious ear...they got their own genre...How far will it go? It went to the moon, man. And there was no turning back." — Dr. J [41:36]
  • Acknowledges crossover success, using Snoop Dogg as an example. [43:05]

• Hip Hop in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame:

  • Hosts debate Gene Simmons' comments and reflect on Black artists' foundational role in rock and roll:
    • "Didn’t we create rock and roll? ... Black people created rock and roll." — Joe [44:36]

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10. The New ABA Documentary

• Amazon Prime Release:
  • Dr. J discusses the newly released ABA documentary and its significance for telling the full story:
    • "ABA is more than just me in it. It’s a lot of people...Spencer Haywood and Rick Barry...the nine year history of the ABA." [47:14]
• Sports Breaking Racial Barriers:
  • Recollection of childhood integrated teams and refusal to play when teammates were discriminated against; the role of sports in social integration. [48:03–49:09]

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11. Athletes & Social Advocacy

• Reflections on Courage of Past Athletes:
  • Mentions contemporaries and forebears—Ali, Jim Brown, Bill Russell—who risked careers for justice:
    • "When you were seeing guys like Muhammad Ali talking about 'I ain’t going to the war'...what you thought at that time?" [49:23]
  • Dr. J explains he was “watching from the sideline but not being ignorant” due to the life or death stakes. He chose the spiritual path of Dr. King. [50:19]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Legacy and Impact:
  "They talk about doing stuff that will affect seven generations...that's a beautiful thing." — Dr. J [19:40]

• On Using Your Platform:
  "If you get a platform, you need to promote those things. So I’ve tried to be about that..." — Dr. J [10:59]

• On Civil Rights and Taking a Stand:
  "You have to be born into it...not something you learn in school." — Dr. J [53:05]

• On Telling Your Own Story:
  "When you let somebody else tell your story, never going to be right." — Joe [18:31]

• On Hip Hop’s Arrival:
  "No, I had no idea...it went to the moon, man. And there was no turning back." — Dr. J [41:36]

• On Integration & Sports:
  "Sometimes we would go to games...the other coach didn’t want his players to play against us...so we just left the building." — Dr. J [48:03]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:00] — Discussing the origin and evolution of the dunk
• [06:01] — The ABA experience and 1960s social context
• [08:23] — Choosing to follow Martin Luther King's ideology
• [14:06] — Bill Russell’s mentorship and giving back
• [14:55] — On autobiography and legacy
• [19:40] — Seven generations principle
• [21:54] — Systemic racism as generational
• [27:37] — Dr. J’s era and "flyness"
• [31:03] — Stories of social circles with Arthur Ashe, Reggie Jackson, etc.
• [36:48] — On Black athlete representation in media
• [41:36] — First impressions of hip hop
• [44:36] — Black origins of rock & roll
• [47:14] — New ABA documentary on Amazon Prime
• [48:03] — Personal recollections about integrated basketball teams
• [49:23] — Reflecting on athlete activism and civil rights
• [53:05] — Legacy, advocates, and activists

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Final Notes

This episode is rich in first-person history and reflection, mixing humor, cultural pride, intergenerational wisdom, and honest discussion about adversity, legacy, and progress. Erving’s humility, the hosts’ deep respect, and their candid conversations offer valuable insights for basketball fans, social historians, and anyone interested in the intersection of sports, culture, and social change.

Transcript

[A]

You know, Arthur was the best tennis player in the world.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, I had my basketball thing going. 74. Miles was making music. Miles would bring some music. We listened to it. We couldn't understand nothing. Two weeks later, it was running up the charts.

[B]

The biggest song in the world, huh?

[A]

Running up the charts. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

What up, y'? All? This is Joe Crack the Dawn.

[C]

Know who it is? Your boy Jada. This is the Joe and Jada Show. Every show legendary, every show iconic. You know what I mean? Live from LA All Star 2026, today's guest. You think of the ABA, do your own work before the NBA. When you think of basketball, when you think of adversity, when you think of influence for such a long time, style. You think of style.

[B]

Blueprint class.

[C]

You also would never want to get slapped by this guy. You slap the hell out of you. So don't make a mess. Ladies and gentlemen, make some noise for Julius. Dr. J. Irving.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Nice intro. I appreciate that.

[C]

You know, I gotta. I gotta make it right for you, my brother, you know?

[A]

Happy to be here with you guys. Appreciate you for coming.

[B]

I see we brought the fake palm tree from. I said New York. You see, we got the fake palm tree with us.

[C]

We got the fake tree.

[B]

Yo, we brought the fake. Yo, let me tell you something, Dr. J, I'm thinking, if Dr. Dre got inspired by Dr. J, we out here in LA, I'm like, damn. You think Dr. Dre got inspired his name by Dr. J? Dr. J, one of a kind. He's so much. First of all, how's your wife?

[A]

She's fine. You guys, power couple.

[B]

Every time I see y', all, every All Star weekend, I go back and I'll be like, damn, they the flyest couple in the game.

[A]

Thank you for the compliment. You back at the hotel with her girlfriend, and she's got some people out here, so she spent a little time with them, being there for me.

[B]

Super legendary. See, I don't go by the rules. Like, I don't look at the notes and all that. So me, I'm just shooting this shit off the top.

[C]

He goes off script.

[B]

So I'm off script, right? But when I think of me being a kid and looking at Dr. J, you know, them legendary dunks. Was. Was anybody dunking before you, or were you the first one to do it with, like, an exclamation point? That's.

[A]

That's interesting. Plenty of balls were dunked before I came along. And even. Even as a Kid. Nice to watch Wilt Chamberlain on TV and dunking the ball and being in New York, you know, the Knicks had a guy named Jumping Johnny Green. Jumping Johnny Green would catch it coming off the rim after a missed shot, throw it back down, run down the court like nothing happened or whatever.

[B]

Smooth with it.

[A]

Yeah, he was smooth with it. And in my community, where I live, I live in Roosevelt, New York, it was like 15,000 people.

[B]

Roosevelt Island?

[A]

No, Roosevelt, New York. The town of Roosevelt between Hempstead and Uniondale, all that. Nassau County.

[B]

Nassau County, Long Island.

[A]

My point is, I used to walk past Johnny Green's house to get to school, and I'd always walk slow. When I got to his house, I'm like, I just gotta see this guy, man. I ain't wanna go up and knock on the door or anything. And I never saw him coming and going outta that house. But I did go to the Garden and I saw him play.

[B]

You know, we got something in common. I live in Wesley Snipes block. You know, Wesley Snipes lives on my block. Yeah, yeah. Today, present time. Y seen them in my life. I walk, I do whatever I see. Worldwide west, I see. Yo, where's Wesley Snipes, yo? You know, he's my neighbor. I never seen his wife. I never seen his kids. I never, like, you know how many times I went by there, like, yo, where's this guy? But Don Pool lived right across the street from me. They'd see him. I never seen him.

[A]

Your timing is off.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Y' all both working.

[A]

That'd be something he might be saying. We need to see you too.

[B]

I'm down. I'm down the block, man. Yo, Wesley.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I live down the block. Knock on the door, baby.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Knock on the door. So Johnny Green was smooth now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you didn't invent the dunk. I've been Donnie Green my whole life. I thought you invented the dunk.

[C]

They.

[A]

They do credit me with perfecting some of the dunk shots because it just used to be, you know, get a bugger down, throw it in and roll on out. And sometimes, you know, I might do little twist, turn side or whatever, because I had a real big hand. I could hold the ball with one hand. The swag guys came to challenge it. You know, I would just move it back into the foe so it would throw them off, turn the people who would potentially be blocking the shot or interrupting shot and still complete the plane and just roll on out of there. So. So I've been credited with perfecting the duck, but not inventing the duck. It was. There was plenty of dunking before I came along.

[C]

The aba, what was that like?

[A]

You know, it's one of the joys of my basketball life, having started in the ABA and playing there for five years. And during that five years, you know, having something to, you know, take my mind away and my heart away from some of the bad things that were happening in, in the world. Because, you know, I came out of high school with 68. That's when Martin Luther King was assassinated. 69, Malcolm X was assassinated. In 64, JFK was assassinated. I mean, came up and, you know, dealing with tragic stuff during the teenage years. So going to college in 68 and staying there for three years and having the path carved for a pro career, and the pro career, you know, gave you something to focus on, concentrate on, go through the challenge of being your livelihood, knowing that the other opportunities, the other situations were. I could have got drafted into the army like a lot of my friends from high school did. They got drafted in the army, some of them went to Vietnam and never came back. So there was a lot of bad stuff. The Cold War between us and Russia. During that time we had times when it was fire drills in school where you had to figure out how to go in the basement or hide just in case there was a plane coming by, attacking the United States and dropping bombs, whatever. So when people talk about basketball, basketball was a game as an amateur. It wasn't a livelihood, but it was a game. And it was a diversion from a lot of the things that were bad about the society that we live in. Because we have an ugly history in that regard, especially regarding race.

[B]

You know, I was gonna ask you right now, when you brought em both up, I didn't realize JFK then Martin Luther King, I didn't realize it was all in that little five year run right there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whose ideology you sided with more, Malcolm or Martin Luther King? Martin Luther King.

[A]

Martin Luther King. You know, we were Christians and we went to Baptist church and my mother and father, both from South Carolina, so they were down in the Bible Belt in that regard and moved north, moved to Chicago first and then into New York. And me and my sister and brother were all born in New York, so, you know, born there, bred there and we dealt with all that.

[B]

You said you was just finishing high school and you watched the news and it's like Martin Luther King got assassinated then that had to be like real. How did you find out?

[A]

That's traumatic. You know, when it was on tv.

[B]

I mean, we had tv, so it was from tv. How you found out we had tv?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Actually, people fought actually, before. Yeah.

[C]

My dad actually lived around the corner. My dad's from Memphis. He got assassinated on one of my dad's birthdays.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

So his whole birthday.

[A]

That's a hotel, right? Yeah, yeah, at the hotel. The hell is that? So, I mean. And her world heard about it at the same time. And there were various reactions. You know, I was in elementary school with jfk, and I was in. We went in school. And then when the shooting happened in Dallas or whatever, they told all the kids to go home, you know, so we just went out and some of us went. Stayed in the park, stayed on the school grounds. Other people went home. And with Martin, I mean, it was riots. It was riots. And it got ugly out here. Suburbs, suburbs, cities. There were riots associated with that because people wasn't having it, but they couldn't change it, and the riots didn't change anything.

[B]

A lot of things don't change, you know, because I think of John Lennon. He got assassinated. The man was singing about roses and

[A]

fields and It's a lot of ugly stuff, man.

[B]

Yeah, because, you know, we just had Super Bowls, and your man Bad Bunny is the nicest guy in the world. And the way they protested this guy and all that, Like, I was actually scared for him. Like, I was like. Because there's so much division and hatred and all that going around. And this guy, just for singing. I was really worried about him. I was really like, yo, they might do something to this guy right here and to sing, right? And so you see, like, John Lennon, he got killed. He was the most beastful guy in the world.

[A]

And so, case in point, we got an advocate for. For peace, harmony, love. So if you get a platform, you need to promote those things. So I've tried to be about that. My success and my notoriety. I don't call it fame per se, because fame, not people could be famous. Somebody could jump off a bridge nowadays, jump off a bridge and do something crazy.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

Get fame and notoriety. So I. So I think the topic should be respect. And, you know, if you get respect in your genre or industry or whatever, I mean, you. You on your way. So you need to use that platform in a positive way.

[B]

I mean, that's what we try to do, especially nowadays. So I look at me and Jadakiss, like Shaquille o' Neal with Charles Barkley. So, you know, we've been. We played the game. We won chips. We did Everything. So we talk about hip hop and lifestyle and the people respect it in that way. I feel like the hip hop genre grew up now to the point of where we hit that commentary phase where they're like, all right, you know, Jadakiss, some people think he's top five rap in the world. In fact, Joe, we know he talk a lot of, you know, he talk a lot of shit. So they get up in here and they took, you know, it's like Shaq and Charles. But, you know, we try to bring positive to everything. We don't even engage. When they got World War 3 and hip hop, they call us first and be like, yo, we want to come up and curse the other rap out and this and that. We'd be like, yeah, we don't really want that. Like, you know, I'm sorry guys.

[A]

Wrong guys.

[B]

Yeah, we're not taking sides. We just not. And then people have the misconception, especially now, they have a misconception where they feel like everything has to be negative, everything has to be clickbait, everything has to be, you know, and, and they think that's. They literally think that's the only way to become successful in 2026.

[A]

Yeah, well, you got people, that's their opinion. It's not everybody. But sometimes it seems like it's everybody because that person has a stage or those people have a stage and they're saying and. But it's not everybody. I mean, I don't think there's anything on the planet, but everybody does except breathe air, drinks, water, you know, whatever. So. But when you get your chance, your opening, it's important that you step in and be accountable.

[B]

Accountability is something I've been hearing more these days. And I think everybody needs to be accountable.

[A]

And it's not age related. No, it doesn't matter. I mean, it doesn't matter. I'll be 76 next week.

[B]

Great. Dr. Chow. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So if I get in front of a room of 16 year olds, it's not like I gotta talk to em, like a 76 year old or 50 year old or 25 year old or whatever. I was kind of say what's in my heart, share what's in my heart and you know, open and extend the hand of friendship to him, you know, like Bill Russell did to me, you know, when I was 19 and he had already finished his career and he extended the hand of friendship and we became friends right up until the time he passed away at 8 and 6. I like to do that. I like to mimic and duplicate Would somebody have done for me?

[C]

You know, how important is that? Giving back that knowledge and giving back that. From jewels to the youth, things of that nature.

[A]

So I, you know, I have a documentary out, I have an autobiography out. And you know, it took a long time to pin that autobiography because I think I started it 43, 45. I didn't finish till I was 61, 62 in 2012. So I think putting it back in the universe is important. And my initial motivation was to get the story straight. First person for my family and the generations that down the line. So the uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, kids, grandkids, great children. I wanted them to have something first person penciled by me so they can know. Because I knew that the popularity of being a basketball player was going to have a lot of things said about me. So I'm going to be. Some of it's going to be true, some of the not so give them the first person and you know, affording, allowing yourself to go ahead and go through that process. And it's a trying process, man. Have you guys written biographies?

[B]

And you get to the traumatic section and you got to keep going over it and you gotta think of like traumatic stuff to happen. That's hard, bro. And I did a video book. Yeah. So I, So I had to go over like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then my best friend got murdered in front of me. And then this, this, that, and you just reliving that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's almost like peeling the orange. Like you just like it just. You keep reliving the trauma back and forth.

[A]

Some people want to bury it, just bury it like it never happened. But it really did happen, you know, and it's part of what makes you who you are.

[B]

Well, my fear is the reason why I originally got into hip hop journalism, whatever you call it. Right. Started ig, whatever is. I started watching hip hop documentaries. Not for none. Dr. J, you some years in front of me when it comes to this hip hop thing. I was born in the birthplace. You really can't tell me nothing about this thing? Yeah, like nothing. When you talking about a hip hop historian, that's like if they bought a basketball and they stitched it up, I know who stitched it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And if you wasn't there, I know you wasn't there. And so now they start doing these hip hop documentaries and they start having so called historians. They weren't there. So they start telling their own narrative or whatever. And I'm letting. And I said, yo, we can't do this because if we die in 20 years from now, kids go back to the videotape, they're not gonna get the real answer.

[A]

They're not getting authentic. Right.

[B]

Yeah. That's why I started interviewing people and doing all this, because they were really fabricating different stories. And I'm looking at it, I'm like. And these were credible people making these documentaries. I was like, yo, this is crazy. That's why I originally got into it. And then with me writing a book, I just knew for a fact if I died, they call me a liar. Terrible. While I'm alive.

[A]

Yeah, they could.

[B]

So I think I had to tell my book before somebody would have came and said, yo, this guy's this, this guy's that, this guy's this. And when you let somebody else tell

[C]

your story, never going to be right.

[B]

It could be the closest ones to you. Not even in a bad way. They seemed in a different way than you saw it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's very important that people, you know, document. And also, who we was talking about yesterday, about inspiration, somebody was talking about. We was talking about that, Rich. It's about inspiring, you know, the kids behind you and letting them know that it's possible. Hope, you know, hope, and it's possible. And, you know, a lot of, you know, like you said, I got to. I had to see it to believe it. You know, one thing I never been was jealous. And so I always looked at everybody else that won. He said, yo, we could do that. Like, always been inspired by greatness and people who won or people made money or people. I always was like, yes, well, if he did that, he can't be. He can't be a bigger bullshitter than me. I'm gonna get to that fucking bag. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yo, I'm gonna get to it. It's doable, it's attainable. I'm gonna go for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

You know. You know, just listening to you, it makes me think about one of the things that I learned in my lifetime, because through my grandparents, my great grandparents, and I noticed that there was some Native American heritage in my great grandmother's look and hair and so on and so forth, whatever. So roused my curiosity. And, you know, I befriended some Native Americans over the years, and one of the takeaways, one of the biggest takeaways was they talk about doing stuff that will affect seven generations, you know, and they seem to be the only people I run into in my span of time that I've been here. We talk about that, because once you say that, well, it makes somebody stop and think. You think about seven generations with family.

[C]

Just make me think right now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it made you think right now. And you guys are probably doing that if you haven't already done that. That's gonna have an effect on seven generations.

[B]

You know what's so wicked?

[A]

And that's a beautiful thing.

[B]

You know what's so wicked?

[C]

Past three generations of thinking about, like, as he said that I never thought

[A]

seven.

[C]

You thought about seven?

[B]

Hell, no. I can't think of no seven generations.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I could tell you who did. The wicked people who created the laws and did the systemic racism. 100 years ago, we didn't even have telephones. We didn't even have a car, we didn't even have a plane. But they made laws back at that time that's affecting us at this time to where everybody can't get to the bag. Systemic racism. They did that a hundred. They didn't even have a phone, a fax machine. But they thought of, okay, we're going to F these people up for a hundred something years. We're going to make sure these got for eternity. They thought of seven generations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thomas and all the guys with the

[C]

white hair, they thought of it in a negative way.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Each on the.

[A]

And they acted on it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what's crazy is my grandfather, his sisters used to come visit, like once every 10 years, and they dressed up as Indians. And they. I wrote it in my book. They used to have moccasins. They were Indians.

[A]

They were like.

[B]

And I'm in the projects in the Bronx looking at them like, yo, we got real Indians in our family from Puerto Rico.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but, you know, I was too little. Hold on, hold on.

[C]

Was they Puerto Rican or was they Indian?

[B]

They Tahino Indians in Puerto Rico. The Puerto Ricans is Spanish, African and Taio Indian. That makes up a Puerto Rican. But what I'm telling you is that I don't know why. I had some aunts and uncles that used to come in moccasins dressed like straight Indians in the South Bronx with moccasins. We over there with AJ's and overlaps tank tops looking at them like. I'm like, yo, they Indians for real coming up in that joint.

[A]

So look and learn, look and learn, man. Look and learn. Because from a cultural standpoint, you know, lots of times they do things differently, and sometimes they do things better.

[B]

I never seen them again after my grandfather died. His. His side of the family unfortunately never came back like once my grandfather died, like that was it. Like they, you know, it's scary because I got, you know, I'm half Cuban. I got a bunch of stepbrothers and sisters. And since my father passed away last year, you know, we lose contact. Like, you know, some of my brothers don't call no more. My sister called yesterday because it was a year anniversary of my father's death. So she was like, yo, how you feeling, bro? Whatever, bro. You know, sometimes when people die, that whole part of that family.

[A]

Well, no question about it, you know, My mother was one of 14 children in Batesburg, South Carolina. My father was one of 11. So I had aunts and uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins, the whole deal. But once my father passed, we started relating to mom's side of the family. So that's who you knew, that's who you spent the time with, that's who you related to and that's who you became close to. And, you know, death does that.

[E]

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This month, iHeartRadio is celebrating the stars of the 2026 Winter Games. Michigan natives Madison Chalk and Evan Bates are the undisputed leaders of American ice dance. As reigning world champions, they arrive in Milano Cortina with a red reputation for storytelling and seamless chemistry that captivates judges and fans alike. After years of climbing the ranks, the duo is poised to cap their illustrious careers with the ultimate prize. They take the ice with one goal, bringing Olympic gold home for more Winter Games gold. Search olympics on the iHeartRadio app.

[B]

I've always been jealous of your error. I know it's not necessarily I want to know jokes. No, but you. Right, right. What I mean, like, is when I watch the movies from your era and they throwing them chinchillas on the. The Frank Lucas movies and Nicky Barnes on the color cover of Time, you know, they rats. But. But I'm just saying they were the biggest. What was it like at the time when you. The biggest guy could. Dr. J was the biggest guy on the earth at that time. When they talk about all this because, you know, we. We from New York. I don't know about him, but I'm assuming him. We from New York. We think Harlem's the flyers, right? And we think of all that. But that's about your time when this

[C]

show wasn't gonna have no flags.

[B]

What did I say?

[C]

No gun.

[B]

What I'm trying to say is, where's the flag?

[A]

That's the cutoff.

[B]

No, no. That means foul on the play. I said something I didn't agree with. He didn't agree with it, so he threw the flag. We usually got a hundred of them flying. We've been real gentle with you, Mr. Dr. J. Mr. Irving. I'm showing respect. You know, my thing is. What was it like in that era?

[C]

Flyness.

[B]

You could. We see you fly. You fly it in all of them forever. You got Wilt Chamberlain bragging, but he wasn't more swagged out than you.

[A]

Yeah, it was class.

[B]

You was outside.

[A]

How about your boy Clyde?

[B]

Clyde, you know, he still wear the cowboys too big, right? He got the cow. It's made out of cow glide.

[C]

Still rocking. Same suits?

[B]

Yeah, the same suits.

[C]

He might got them tailored up, but I think it's the same, right? You can't even find some of that. He got some of the finest cow skins and materials that you ever see.

[B]

Yo, Clyde, man, you know. You know I be trying to dress right, but he was cool.

[A]

He played the cool part. His management company used to represent me, so yeah, it was your era, Dr.

[B]

J. I'm trying to get you in this era, right? Okay. It's Harlem, it's New York City. You from New York. You the biggest in the world. You Dr. J, you slam dunking over everything. You come into the rucker, shutting it down. You got all these guys that we watched these movies of in the middle of your era. What was that like? Dr. J, could you just describe to us what was Dr. J's life at that time? Was there a club in Harlem that was out of this world that you walked in at 12 midnight? It was like, Dr. J, like, what was that like?

[A]

I'm telling you the truth. So at a certain hour, you know, I would be in the after hours club and I look around, I'm thinking, these people don't want to go home or they ain't got nowhere to go. Let me get the hell out of here. Because I got a home. And I was, you know, living in my parents house because I early 20s, I stayed in New York till I was 26, so birth to 26. And I wasn't trying to be hard, you know, my mom, she raised three kids and pretty much by herself. She did marry, I had a stepfather, but she bared the load. And I said, I ain't trying to do nothing to make it harder than it already is. Yeah.

[B]

I'm not saying being hard enough. That was you there, Dr. J. Everybody was coming up to, yo, Dr. J, this is such and such. Yeah, your Dr. J, this is such and such. They had to be doing that, right?

[A]

Yeah. So me, Reggie Jackson, Arthur Ashe. No, Miles Davis. Miles Davis and Bill cosby.

[C]

Whoa.

[A]

So 1974, we would meet frequently at Cosby's house. Right. And a lot of the discussion was about time and place and what we doing. You know, Arthur was the best tennis player in the world.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, I had my basketball thing going. 74 multiple time MVP in the ABA. Miles was making music and Miles would bring some music and he'd play it, but there was a thing called Divided Soul. We listened to it, we couldn't understand nothing. Two weeks later, it was running up the charts.

[B]

The biggest song in the world, huh?

[A]

Running up the charts.

[B]

We saw some of those.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Cause you don't know, I mean, it's. It's raw. I had that with Grover Washington Jr. You know, in Philly. He writes something, I'd hear it. Oh, that's all right. Next thing I know, you know, that's the hat. It's like Huff.

[B]

What was that? Gambling. Huff.

[A]

Gambling Huff. Philly. Yeah, they were in Philly.

[B]

Was the.

[A]

Yeah, they in Philly. They made great music. Cosby, Cosby got all jammed up. And it was very, very unfortunate because, you know, he was a good mentor in my life. He was older than us, and he hosted us in his house. And this is 74. So we in our 20s. Reggie looked a little older. Me and Arthur about the same age. And Miles is a little older, too. So we had our crew, you know, That's a good crew to have.

[B]

Wow. Yeah.

[A]

You ain't gotta. You ain't gotta know.

[B]

That's the Mount Rushmore of Cruz.

[A]

You ain't gotta go to no club.

[B]

You can't beat no Arthur Ash, no Reggie Jackson, Mr. October, Bill Cosby, jello pudding pops. This man was Fat Albert. He had Fat Albert.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that. So that helped me. Cause I had friends like that. And now, you know, Reggie and I are still friends. He got an event going on in Vegas beginning of the next month. So he just sent me a note. All right, you gonna be here? Hell, yeah, we'll be here. You know. You know you gonna tie me.

[C]

You.

[A]

You are. You're linked to my past. And it was a great time. So you were linked to my past when. When I was on the top of the world. You know, him being talked about in that conversation. Who's the best basketball player in the world? That's when that conversation was going on.

[B]

I'll be honest with you, Dr. J. You're still on top of the world. You still on top of the world. When they see you. Ain't nobody I know. You might think it was a lawn.

[A]

No.

[C]

He lights up every room he steps.

[B]

Yeah, you walk in there, you swagged out. To this day, that's why I asked you about your wife. Y' all always look beautiful.

[A]

You.

[B]

You coming through. You floating. They know what time it is on another level. And basketball players, more than anything, they gotta study the tape. They have to study the tape. Basketball players. You know, I always tell a story, I say to Floyd Mayweather, who's undefeated, and everybody called the greatest boxer one of them of all time. I seen a fight where he was getting beat up for six rounds, and then he switched up the whole style and he beat the guy. And at the end, he was like Jack Dibbs, Jack Dempsey. I watched the videotape when he did this and that. And the point is, it's the same story. Kiss. But it's relative to what we talking about. They gotta watch the videotape. Yeah. You know and give us another.

[A]

That's a wonderful gift, you know, having a video to watch, you know. Now, I think some of the stuff that people watch maybe doesn't necessarily help them, you know, maybe motivates them to just get out there. But, you know, some of every. Every piss video that's out there ain't good.

[B]

No.

[A]

Say it again.

[B]

Most are bad.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, most are bad. The majority probably is. I was more damaged than good.

[B]

I'm addicted to social media. Like, you know, if I have a second, I watch my Instagram and this and this and that. But, you know, I'm kind of getting pissed off at all this, like, negativity and everybody fighting each other and everybody. It's just like every day you wake up to see who's fighting who, who's this, who's that. And it's kind of like played out what you think.

[C]

Kiss what the world. Me Love,

[A]

sweet love.

[B]

It's the only thing that there's just too little of.

[A]

Good answer, Good answer. Good answer.

[C]

Today, Today's state of the game. How do you feel about it without. You know, a lot of people can't take conversation. Then they. They misconstrue it or they get emotionally drained or things of that nature when you just ask something like that. That's why we like to stay away from the questions that turn into religious arguments or political debates. But just the state of the game, where is that today? From how you played in it and seen in it, you know, how you feel about it.

[A]

So I'm gonna jump over into the racial aspect of it. You know, See, when I was coming up, black athletes got interviewed. You know, sometimes they get played, somebody asking stupid stuff, they'd give a stupid answer and then suddenly, see, that's why we shouldn't interview the black guys, because they representing or whatever. So I was always kind of guarded with my dialogue and delivery and, you know, try to say things the right way or whatever. Cause I grew up, you know, seeing some. Some bad interviews. I mean, for some terrible interviews, you know, especially with boxers and ball players, you know, guys, you know, you know, I was like, nah, nah, come on, man. We could do better than that. Cause we are better than that. And that became a reflection on the race. And unfortunately, or fortunately, ABA was a breakthrough in terms of majority of players in the league were black. Wasn't that we're in the NFL. Wasn't that we're Major League Baseball. Baseball was probably second with maybe 40%. And. But the NBA, NBA was like in the 20s, 20s, and so that's where the most work needed to be done. And then there were breakthroughs, you know, certain people coming up and handling it. Black commentators, so they weren't going to play the game. You know, they tried to help the athlete who they were talking to. And so there's a track record that you can follow. And you could see basketball opened its doors 1947. So 47, 57, 67, 77, 87, 97. No blacks became the dominant race in the league. So you got a lot of good interviews and now comes the international player. You know, the international player has to work his way in because there's certain people, you know, they didn't want to get on the microphone because they didn't really own the language. The female golfers that came from China or Japan, whatever. No, you got to learn English if you're going to play over here. You gonna make this money and take this money back. Gotta learn the language.

[B]

They do that to the Latino boxes too. Latino box. Actually analyze that. You make less money if you don't talk English. Yeah, you gotta learn English.

[C]

That's what he's saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there were real times in which this got recognized. And then suddenly, you know, people made the adjustments that were necessary to max it out, you know, to max. Make maximum money. Well, I need to, I need to get my stuff together. And part of it is what kind of upbringing you have and what the influences. Influences are on you, school wise. You know, I just hated to hear somebody being called a dumb jock because that was my space. You know, they call us jocks and a dumb jock, that was almost being worse than being called the N word.

[B]

It was derogatory.

[A]

Very.

[B]

We had it bad, right? And so, you know, I'll go on YouTube and watch Puerto Ricans in 1970. Man, I don't even know. This is like, you know when they say your ancestors dream talking like that, like the way they was talking English, nothing. It was like English, they didn't know nothing. Maybe if they were smart, they sounded dumb as hell. Yeah, black people too. In the South Bronx. I watched them in the 70s and I'll be like, and now you got so many on. Or articulate, smart, intelligent billionaires, all kind of business owners and all that. Well, I'm just like, damn, we came a long, long way. Because when you watch that footage of the Bronx in the 70s, you just like, damn, how did we get here? Yeah, you know, so you hear.

[A]

It was a miracle.

[B]

Dr. J, you've been around long time. You hear hip hop. Where do you hear for the first time? And did you know when you heard it around that time that did you know, oh, this thing is going to go?

[A]

No, I had no idea that, that, that it was going to go to where it went, you know, I mean, I was a rhythm of blues guy and a jazz guy and when I heard hip hop, I mean, I, you know, I had a cautious ear because it was all around, came from uptown and, you know, the characters associated with hip hop, you know, I got a kick out of, you know, I was like, okay, I ain't trying to be them and then they're not trying to be me. So they got their own genre and how far will it go? And it went to the moon. It went to the moon, man. And there was no turning back. Because I think the overall acceptance of hip hop in the beginning was to be determined by the people who were the best at doing it. And, and they not only grabbed the stage, they didn't let it go, you know. And you know, I mean, some of you look at looking like Snoop, you know, for one thing, I mean, he's crossed over into, forget about it, a dozen different things.

[B]

The host of the Olympics and not. Yeah, but he, but he been doing it.

[A]

He'd been doing golf tournaments. He does so much variation of the theme, but he's still genuine because when he's talking, you know, what he comes from, where he comes from, and, and he'd be quick to tell you. So. Yeah, what did I feel about it? I mean, you know, my generation was, you know, the rhythm and blues piece. And even, even in my, my house, you know, music, my mom would play, whatever it was just, you know, straight up love songs. It'd be a little mix of rock and roll in there. You know, you like to rock and

[B]

roll and you want to know what's crazy?

[C]

You know, it's ill that, that he say the music that he grew up and listened to. His son was my man. Yeah.

[B]

Jay Irving. Yeah, I know the brother. Yeah, yeah. You know what's crazy is I don't know if you've seen recently, homeboy Gene Simmons said that hip hop shouldn't be in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. This is the new talk. This real.

[A]

You can't deny that. I mean, you can't deny hip hop from coming in. If it's Rock and roll hall of Fame is going to recognize the sales and the impact. Yeah. Overall impact.

[B]

Yeah. My thing is, didn't we create rock and roll like originally Chuck Berry?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Black people created rock and roll.

[C]

I only got the facts then.

[B]

No, I got the facts.

[A]

My phone might have been like that slam dunk question. Because they didn't invent it, but they perfected it.

[C]

Perfected it.

[A]

Facts, you know, Little Richard took it to another level.

[B]

I saw an interview one time, Little Richard named every superstar rock person. It was like, yo, he played in my band. I taught him how to do this. I taught her how to do this. I taught like, he dead ass was pointing out all the rock and roll legends talking about it. He taught him everything.

[A]

Great balls of fire.

[B]

Okay, buddy, where's my flag? He got one great balls. Where can we see the new aba? I know it's on Prime. I already seen.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, Amazon Prime. I watched it last night, okay? You know, I had the guy come in, jerry rigged my tv, got it. And then I got a Amazon prime account, because I had an Amazon account, my business name. And they were like, oh, no, this one's under another one. So I was under Amazon.com and then the Amazon prime or whatever. The first month free, then it's $14 a month. So I got roped into it because I said, I want to watch this last night before I come out today and this weekend. And they got us hooked up. So me and my wife derise, and we watched it from 8 to midnight because it was four episodes and each episode is like an hour. And I will see it again. I probably will see it again with friends or family or whatever. Or we're gonna do a big birthday celebration next week. So I'm gonna get that on in the background as a backdrop. You know, that should be good. So you guys need to check it out. We gonna definitely.

[B]

Last night I thought I saw it, but I'm realizing I watched the old documentary. Oh, so I watched documentary on Doctor.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That is called the Doctor. I thought I was watching came. I told Lori was here. She was like, yeah, you know what comes out tonight? I said, yeah, I watched it last night. She was like, no, that wasn't it. You must have watched the old joint.

[A]

No, ABA is more than just me in it. It's a lot of people. Spencer Haywood and Rick Barry and, you know, the people who were a part of the nine year history of the ABA. So started in 1967. Then we go back to that time that craziness was going on in the country.

[B]

You know what's nuts I seen. Yeah, I think it's in that documentary where it was segregated. Then they let black and white people play together and they Were showing the fans reaction. They had white people and they was like, yeah, I love this guy and I love that. And it showed how sports, sports gelled everybody together at such a horrible time.

[A]

Yeah, well, see, you know, I'm from Long island, right? So we had a team at the Salvation army and me and the guy named Archie Rogers, two of us, and we had 10 guys who were not black, who were white. Those were our teammates. So we were a close knit group in the suburb right over in Hempstead. And sometimes we would go to games that were arranged for our team and the other coach didn't want his players to play against us. So this is 61, 62. And they were like, well, we play y', all, but they can't play. So our guy, Don Ryan, who's still there in Hempstead in the community, and he's a, he's a, he's an angel sent from heaven. He said, let's go, guys. Took the whole team, left the building.

[B]

Took the white boys too.

[A]

They left the building.

[B]

We had our team.

[A]

We just leave the building. And that would happen two or three times a year during our seasons when I was a black, remember there? And I remember it and I embrace it, you know, because that was so important for what he did.

[B]

You think Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, you know, all these athletes, the forefront of his civil rights. To me, when I look at those times, I just think of the courage, like the courage you had to have. People are scared to talk right now. Kiss. People are literally afraid. This is the only time the President of the United States will clap back on Instagram at you. Yeah, President of the United States be like, yo, Fat Joe, let me holla at you and tell you this is it. Like, people are terrified to speak up now. And at that time, you know, it pretty much was hard to be, you know, because you, you risking your career, you're risking all that. So when you were seeing guys like Muhammad Ali talking about I ain't going to the war and all like that and what you thought at that time,

[A]

okay, so I was a little young for the heart of the movement, but I was well aware of the different players. The Martin Luther Kings, Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Long island guy, Bill Russell, he was already in basketball and he was the ultimate champion in basketball. So kind of watching from the sideline, but not being ignorant about what was going on because it was life or death. And like I said, I had friends who went to war, had friends who were, who followed Malcolm X. I happened to follow Dr. King. So I was trying to be spiritual, let religion be different than what was being said by the Muslim movement. So being in that. And you had to believe in something, you had to take a stand in some capacity. So I followed Dr. King.

[B]

It's beautiful. I followed Dr. King, too. You know, it's crazy, because I think of seeing that. Of the movie Malcolm X, right? And they walking through Harlem, and you see Reverend Al on a box preaching. Then you see the Muslims saying, you'll see the Five Percenters saying, you'll see the Jehovah Witness. Like they was out. Everybody was represented, preaching in one corner.

[C]

Take a side.

[B]

Yeah. He said, you've got to be about something.

[A]

You don't stand for something.

[B]

Fall for anything.

[A]

Fall for anything.

[B]

I always say Dr. Martin Luther King is the greatest American ever lived and gave his life for it. His courage was incredible. He chose love over hate. He chose peace, you know, and bringing the people together.

[A]

Yeah, he was authentic, too. I mean, you know, he just dedicated his whole life to that. And people don't do that anymore. They dedicated for a while, and then somebody blowing their ear. Next thing you know, they're over there doing something they ain't supposed to be doing.

[B]

You got fake activists that get paid off to stop activating no more. They gone, huh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Twist their whole belief.

[B]

Once they catch that little check and check it out, I'd be like, huh? And they'd be like, yeah. And then all of a sudden, you know, they took the check, you know.

[A]

Yeah. We're constantly looking for a new hero, you know, a new difference maker. You know, somebody will constantly. And some people get pushed to that position. But, yeah, I think. I think you have to be born into it. You know, it's not something you learn. It's not somebody. Not something you learn in school.

[B]

Something God puts in you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That says, hey, man, you got me. Don't have no fear. Go represent your people. And so that's important. This ain't that. That ain't this. It's cracking.

[C]

Kiss. Make sure y' all check the documentary out on Amazon prime.

[B]

Make sure Dr. J, the living legend, the icon. Thank you. Come knowledge yourself.

[C]

Make some noise for the Doctor.

[B]

All right.

[G]

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[H]

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[F]

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[H]

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