Podcast Summary: "Joe and Jada - Lil Cease on The Notorious B.I.G. Legacy, Junior M.A.F.I.A. & Tupac-Biggie Beef"

The Herd with Colin Cowherd (The Volume & iHeartPodcasts) | September 20, 2025
Featuring: Fat Joe, Jadakiss, Lil Cease, special memories of The Notorious B.I.G., Junior M.A.F.I.A., and deep hip hop culture discussion

Episode Overview

In this episode, Fat Joe and Jadakiss (Joe and Jada Show) sit down poolside at the Fountain Blue with Lil Cease—longtime friend and Junior M.A.F.I.A. member—to reflect on the monumental legacy of The Notorious B.I.G. (Biggie Smalls). The conversation traverses personal stories, the creative engine behind Brooklyn rap in the 90s, stories of Junior M.A.F.I.A., and the enduring relevance of B.I.G.’s life and music. They navigate subjects from ghostwriting rumors to Biggie’s entrepreneurship to the seismic East Coast–West Coast tension, blending humor, candid hip-hop wisdom, and a sincere tribute to the king of New York.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Biggie’s Work Ethic, Legacy, and Influence

• Biggie’s Brief But Massive Impact:

  • Fat Joe and Lil Cease emphasize how Biggie's legendary status was built in an extremely short span (’94–’97), but the reach and weight of his influence only intensified posthumously.
  • “He ain’t get here to have 20, 30 year run like everybody else did, but if he was here, he’d be smoking everything, right? If he was here, everything that he left would still be here right now.” – Fat Joe (35:49)

• Giving Back / Building Generational Wealth:

  • Discussions of how Biggie ensured his family's security for decades:
    • “30 years, he’s still from the grave, still make sure his kids straight… that’s generational wealth.” – Lil Cease (41:21)
  • The importance of setting up your people as a measure of true greatness.

• The Role of Writing and Collaboration:

  • Cease explains how Biggie introduced him to writing—Big would pen early verses for him:
    • “After Biggie passed, I started to write my own rhyme. You can start out as somebody kind of introducing you or bringing you into something, and once you figure it out, you could kind of take your own lane.” – Lil Cease (08:30)

2. Creative Process, Studio Stories & Ghostwriting

• Ghostwriting Rumors:

  • Open speculation about Foxy Brown, Jay Z, and Nas ghostwriting led to a spirited, good-hearted back-and-forth on how many in the era co-wrote or contributed:
    • “Rumor has it, all of her [Foxy’s] verses either J wrote or Nas wrote… is it true or not?” – Fat Joe (05:43)
  • Cease & Lil Cease clarify: writing for others was common, but many grew beyond that—Lil Kim and Junior M.A.F.I.A. included.

• The Biggie Studio Experience:

  • Memorable recounting of witnessing Biggie’s meteoric stardom in the studio—incredible parties, women, and the reality of rap superstardom:
    • “I’m in studio with Biggie while he’s making Hypnotize and the beat keeps going… 20 Spanish girls come, then 20 Chinese girls, then 20 Jamaican girls… I did not know this shit existed!” – Fat Joe (28:51)
  • Hilarious anecdote: Biggie joking about not trusting Michael Jackson with kids and leaving Cease outside during a studio session with MJ.
    • “He like, yo, N, bro, stay here. Don’t trust ‘em with the kids—he was joking, yo, Seez!” – Lil Cease (52:17)

• Biggie’s Reluctance with “Pop” Hits:

  • The classic R&B-flip formula was Puff Daddy’s push, not Big’s initial desire.
    • “He didn’t want to do Juicy… But he listened… And thank God, I mean those shit without question.” – Fat Joe & Cease (33:48)

3. Personal Stories & The Human Side of Biggie

• Coming Up in Brooklyn—The Early Days:

  • Cease and Fat Joe laugh about early hustling, cars, and mistaken age (“I didn’t realize he was that young… thought he was a small grown man. He was a little kid.” – Cease, 19:20)
  • Wildest moments: story of Cease crashing the “aluminum van” with Biggie (12:44), and tales of youth, money, and fashion.

• On Change & Loyalty:

  • Hard lessons about fame and the assumption that stardom changes people; Fat Joe shares his own moment of doubting Biggie had “changed,” only to realize his humility and loyalty remained intact (28:51; 31:53).
  • Loyalty as lasting legacy—supporting Lil Kim and Junior M.A.F.I.A. after Big’s death (38:13):
    • “How could you say Big is your man and then shit on Lee… I’ve kept it 1000% with … Lil Kim, all of them.” – Fat Joe

• The Reality of the East Coast/West Coast ‘Beef’:

  • Straight talk about Biggie’s final days and being in LA:
    • “Did you feel like [Big shouldn’t be in LA]?” – Fat Joe (43:48)
    • “I was too young to feel that way… To this day, I stand on that: he wanted to be there.” – Lil Cease (44:10)
    • Both guests express that, at only 24, Big was a “baby”—and that he was happiest being himself, despite the dangers.

4. Biggie, Entrepreneurship & Building Beyond Rap

• Big’s Entrepreneurial Instinct:

  • Already planning clothing lines (Brooklyn Mint), restaurants, group albums and creative expansions at just 22–24 years old (58:05).
    • “He was already creating things in his head… outside the Mafia, got a commission thing I want to do.” – Lil Cease

• Comparisons to Jay Z’s Rise and Business Acumen:

  • Fat Joe notes that, had Big lived, he would have paralleled Jay Z in entrepreneurship and business.

5. The Impact, Legacy, and ‘Top 5’ Debates

• Biggie & The Immortals of Hip Hop:
  • Biggie and Tupac’s faces are the “martyrs” and undeniable icons—“500 years from now, if hip hop is long gone… they’re gonna talk about Biggie and Tupac.” – Fat Joe (61:53)
  • Reflection on hip hop history, legacy-building, and the importance of continually honoring those who built the culture.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Biggie’s All-Around Greatness:

  “He covered every ground of how you want to do it... in a shorter span like that. Only had three years. He came out in '94, died in '97. We ain't get a chance to enjoy nothing.” – Lil Cease (34:23)

• On Ghostwriting and Growth:

  “Sometimes a history like that can change. You can start out as somebody kind of introducing you... and once you figure it out, you could kind of take your own lane.” – Lil Cease (08:30)

• On Success & Authenticity:

  “The one thing I learned from Big... they don’t know if you changed… It's your perspective of people.” – Fat Joe (13:35, 31:53)

• On Hip Hop’s Top 5 and Respect:

  “He never had a whack verse, ever… You would hear this shit, and every time he pulled out a new verse, we be like, yo, what he say now? And you know Kiss got that impact, too. That's why Top Five dead or alive.” – Fat Joe (36:13)
  “He is that Top Five dead or alive, but outside of being that, he’s the top five realest nigga in the world.” – Lil Cease (36:40)

• On Generational Wealth:

  “[Biggie’s] still from the grave making sure his kids are straight… That’s 30 years later.” – Lil Cease (41:21)

• On Big’s Relationship With Fans and Loyalty:

  “How could I let somebody violate her or Cease or anything like that? I’m not fake.” – Fat Joe (39:41)

• On the Humanness and Youth of Biggie and Pun:

  “He died a baby. Every Pun, they both died a baby… like, they both 20-something, like kids.” – Fat Joe (45:09)

• On Hip Hop History & The Power of Community:

  “All of us at that time, it was just like, we was really doing some shit to change our lives… we really enjoyed being around each other.” – Lil Cease (59:18)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:14] Intro: Lil Cease joins the show, legends assemble
• [05:26–08:30] Ghostwriting rumors, creative process, and evolution for young rappers
• [10:03–13:34] Studio life, fashion, money, and the realities of growing up around stardom
• [28:51] Fat Joe’s “Hypnotize” studio story—seeing the wildness of superstardom
• [33:47–34:58] How Puff Daddy reshaped Biggie’s sound for mass market
• [36:13–39:59] The ‘Top Five’ debate, loyalty after Biggie, and culture beyond rap
• [41:03–42:47] Generational wealth and taking care of family—Biggie’s living legacy
• [43:48–45:15] The LA question—why Big wanted to be on the West Coast
• [52:17] The Michael Jackson session story—Biggie’s humor and trust
• [58:05–58:46] Big’s entrepreneurship and plans beyond rap
• [61:51–62:49] Biggie and Tupac as hip hop martyrs, lasting cultural pillars

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a living oral history—a conversation drenched in nostalgia, authenticity, and hard-earned wisdom. Fat Joe, Jadakiss, and Lil Cease impart gripping stories that ground Biggie’s legacy not just in myth, but in indelible humanity, hustle, and heart. Their bond, respect, and enduring loyalty cement why Biggie’s impact resonates through every era of hip hop, and why honoring hip hop’s martyrs and contributors isn’t just a tradition but a responsibility.

Summary by: PodcastGPT | Original contributors: Fat Joe, Jadakiss, Lil Cease