The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Joe and Jada: Wu-Tang’s Raekwon & Mobb Deep’s Havoc on '36 Chambers,' Prodigy & REAL Hip Hop

Date: September 9, 2025
Episode Theme:
A deeply nostalgic and insightful roundtable celebrating hip hop’s legacy and authenticity, featuring Raekwon (Wu-Tang Clan) and Havoc (Mobb Deep). Hosted by Joe Crack (Fat Joe) and Jada (Jadakiss), the episode journeys through NYC’s pivotal neighborhoods, pivotal figures, classic albums, and real talk about the state of hip hop past and present.

Main Topics & Flow

• Origins & Neighborhood Royalty: Upbringing in Queensbridge, Brooklyn, Staten Island
• Superstar Encounters & Early Influences
• Creation and Chemistry of Iconic Groups
• Legacy of Prodigy and Mobb Deep
• Old Dirty Bastard’s Wild Legacy
• The Realness of Hip Hop’s “Golden Era”
• Label Dynamics & Steve Rifkin’s Impact
• Artistic Evolution & Unexpected Collaborations
• The “Emperor’s New Clothes”: Upholding Authenticity in Modern Hip Hop
• Bridging the Generations: Advice, Anecdotes, and Respect
• Exclusive: New Mobb Deep Track Preview
• Spotlight: Rapsody & Women in Hip Hop

Episode Highlights

1. Neighborhood Roots & Hip Hop Royalty

Queensbridge Projects: The Epicenter

• [07:49] Havoc and Joe reminisce about growing up in Queensbridge, defining it as the most “royal” project in hip hop.
  • Havoc: “When you go to school, n***as be like, where you from? I'm like, I'm from Queensbridge … We got the song, just like … you proud.”
• Havoc reflects on seeing legends like MC Shan, Marley Marl, and Roxanne Shanté, describing how it sparked regional pride and aspirations.
  • “That boosts your confidence up, you know what I'm saying, to become somebody.” [09:01]
• Raekwon shares how his early life in Brooklyn and Staten Island influenced his path:
  • “My mom’s just like a tough skinned lady … when she found out [my father] was on drugs, she said, yo, you got to bow … She made us leave Brooklyn.” [15:25]

Superhero Metaphor: Local Stars Become Icons

• [18:41] Joe likens MCs and crews from his youth to “superheroes,” setting a tone of reverence throughout the episode.
• Joe: “When we see you guys, when we see the Wu Tang, we look at y’all as, you know, superheroes.”
• Discussions touch on Force M.D.s, UMCs, and the unique sense of identity that came from hometown pride.

2. Stories from the Golden Age

Old Dirty Bastard: The Legend

• [25:19] Joe and Raekwon swap stories about ODB’s unpredictable, magnetic energy.
  • Joe: “Seen Old Dirty one time on 2 5th … chugger-lugged a whole bottle of Tiger Bone. I don't think nobody in the world…I don’t think you’re supposed to do that!”
• Raekwon recalls wild escapades from Brooklyn days, painting ODB as both “a good dude” and “the guy you ain’t want to see out in them streets” [27:14].

Memorable ODB Moment

• [32:10] Joe describes intervening when ODB was being pressed by bouncers outside a club:
  • Joe: “He was hallucinating that the killer bees was coming … Like the video, like ‘Triumph’ … That’s when I knew, ODB—he believed the video.”

3. Formation & Evolution of Crews

Wu-Tang Clan: 36 Chambers Era

• [59:45] Raekwon and Joe discuss how RZA’s home studio became Wu-Tang’s creative incubator—everyone had to be present, like an “assembly line.”
  • “A lot of times it was like… being on the assembly line. Like, now you come through and you throw something in the air … Dirty had a lot to do with us straightening up.”
• ODB’s influence as an in-house coach and motivator is highlighted:
  • Raekwon: “He was like a coach… you write a bar, you gotta come over there and get his approval.”

Mobb Deep: From High School to Legendary

• [48:40] Havoc details how he met Prodigy in high school, via mutual friends, and how P’s lyrical growth blew everyone away:
  • Havoc: “If I wasn’t there to witness it myself, I would have thought somebody else wrote P rhymes, you know what I’m saying? ... He just started going in.”
• Discusses the challenge and pride of producing alongside and rapping next to a legend:
  • Havoc: “I was rapping next to Michael Jordan… and still had to cook in the kitchen.”

4. Artistic Community & Loyalty

Steve Rifkin’s Impact

• [34:10] Joe salutes Steve Rifkin, the label boss behind Wu-Tang and Mobb Deep:
  • “He bought my mother’s house. He made me move out the projects. So you know how generous Steve is.”
  • Jadakiss: “That’s another level of … loyalty.” [54:11]

Friendships Across Crews

• [53:00] Joe and Raekwon recall first recording with Big Pun, how instant connections and mutual respect led to legendary collaborations:
  • Raekwon (on first hearing Pun): “I said, that’s one of them.”
• Joe: “This man never let me down his whole life.” [56:21]

5. New York, Nostalgia & the State of Hip Hop

Classic Albums & Raising the Bar

• [69:04] Hosts and guests talk about rising to new creative heights in response to Illmatic and the competitive NY scene:
  • Joe: “At that point, you knew you couldn’t come with stomp. You had to step your shit up or you’re not gonna be involved next year.”

The Evolution—Or Devolution—of the Genre

• [103:00+] The group discusses the difference between then and now: the craftsmanship, hunger, and mutual sharpening between MCs.
  • Raekwon: “We fucking Rakim babies. KRS babies. LL Cool J babies.”
  • Joe: “Big Pun taught me… He said, ‘Sixteen means sixteen. You got twelve hot ones, but you want to give up on the last four?’”

6. Creation of the New—Projects, Tours & Artistic Vision

Albums & Tours Announced

• [113:15] Raekwon previews Emperor’s New Clothes (Mass Appeal), emphasizing upholding quality and calling out “industry snakes.”
  • “It’s a Danish folktale about a king … the scammers came in and sold him something that wasn’t real… That’s how I feel about the game right now.” [120:25]
• Mobb Deep’s new album drops October 10, and the tour kicks off November 12.
• [130:30] Raekwon explains why joining a “super friends” Mass Appeal effort felt right for legacy and for “keeping the real alive.”

Production Stories

• [90:24] Havoc recalls meeting Alchemist, how a beat plug turned family, and how passing the production torch can elevate the whole sound.

7. Realness, Critique & Generational Advice

Authenticity and Hip Hop Identity

• [126:36] Raekwon and the hosts break down the “Emperor’s New Clothes” metaphor—warning against hyping up empty work.
  • Raekwon: “Stop calling everything hip hop, man. Cuz everything ain’t hip hop.”
• [131:44] The crew calls for more honest separation in rap, like “punk rock” and “hardcore metal,” and blasts the way media and the public label everything “hip hop,” even those with no real connection.
  • Joe: “Just because you rap or you got a demo … doesn’t mean you really a rapper.”
  • Jadakiss: “This is a profession … If you let somebody hang around long enough, they go to their family, say they working, they in the industry… and they doing absolutely nothing.” [137:53]
• The group sends love to younger generations getting money, but urges, “Don’t bend or dilute the rules—earn that title.”

8. Exclusive Track & Closing Moments

World Premiere: New Mobb Deep Song

• [155:45] The show features an exclusive preview of a new Mobb Deep track—both hosts and guests nod approval.
  • Joe: “Stupid, sounds so refreshing.”
  • Jadakiss: “It’s like Mobb Deep against the world—you can’t beat this.”

9. Spotlight: Rapsody Joins the Conversation

• [164:00] Rapsody pays tribute to Raekwon and the table’s legends, thanks him for early co-signs, and speaks on the value of “staying in your lane” and representing for women in hip hop without over-sexualization.
  • Jadakiss on Rapsody: “Everything we complaining about, you not… So we gotta support you at all costs. That’s knowledge, very classic.”
• Raekwon and Havoc echo respect, reaffirming the importance of passing down real hip hop values.

10. Tone, Energy & Memorable Quotes

• Episode blends high-energy storytelling, deep nostalgia, humor, and conviction.
• Interwoven throughout are calls for authenticity, keeping the tradition alive, and an unapologetic critique of trends diluting hip hop.
• Notable memorable quotes with timestamps:
  • Havoc: “When you up close on something, you really don’t notice anything like that. … Now when I think about it and I listen back to that shit, I’m like, damn, this nigga was a beast.” [53:30]
  • Raekwon: “If you wasn’t there, I ain’t expecting you to know it. … But stop calling everything hip hop.” [128:18]
  • Joe: “We let a lot of shit slide on our watch that should have been reprimanded.” [148:30]

Key Segments & Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 07:49 | Havoc on Queensbridge pride and early influences | | 18:41 | Hip hop icons as “superheroes” | | 25:19 | Old Dirty Bastard stories: wildness, humanity, and legacy | | 34:10 | Steve Rifkin’s impact on artists’ lives | | 48:40 | Havoc on meeting Prodigy and Mobb Deep’s origins | | 59:45 | Inside 36 Chambers sessions, RZA and ODB’s role | | 69:04 | Illmatic’s impact and raising the lyrical bar | | 90:24 | Meeting Alchemist: production kinship and NY sound | | 113:15 | New albums/tours: Raekwon, Mobb Deep, Mass Appeal collab | | 126:36 | "Emperor’s New Clothes" as a hip hop industry metaphor | | 155:45 | New Mobb Deep track world premiere | | 164:00 | Rapsody joins: co-signs, advice on authenticity, and respect |

Final Takeaways

• This episode is a rich, heartfelt celebration of hip hop as craft, community, and survival.
• The guests urge today’s artists to honor the genre’s roots, not dilute its identity, and to recognize—and respect—what being “real hip hop” truly means.
• Between the laughter, stories, and new music previews, there’s a constant thread: Loyalty matters. Authenticity matters. Respect the cloth.

Essential Quote to End:

“Get money. Do what you do. Get money. But stop calling everything hip hop, man. Cuz everything ain’t hip hop.”
— Raekwon [128:18]