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The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Richard Sherman Podcast - Josh Allen is NOT NFL MVP + Browns-Broncos reaction
01:00:26
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- [00:00]
Richard Sherman
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- [00:30]
Doug Godley
This is Doug Godley from All Ball with Doug Godley. Listen, I'm going to get serious for a minute. The hate in our country is getting out of control. In fact, it's sadly at an all time high. But it's going to take all of us to stop it. I mean, we're all on the same.
- [00:44]
Mitchell
Team in this country.
- [00:45]
Doug Godley
So let's take a break from our hate so our team can regroup. We need to take a time out Against Hate. Visit standuptoallhate.org to help and join me in calling for time out against hate by following hatsupwithhate or posting the blue square emoji. It's hard to read the news these days without asking yourself how did we get here? Fiasco is a history podcast from the co creators of Slow Burn. In our first season, Bush v. Gore, we examine an unmistakable turning point in American politics. The 2000 election, which resulted in a high stakes stalemate, ended with one of the most controversial rulings in Supreme Court history. So if you're trying to make sense of the present moment, check out Fiasco, Bush v. Gore. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [01:33]
Richard Sherman
The volume. You know this girl, you fall for these jokes. You don't super bowl championship. That should always be the expectation. I ain't mad at you. Go on here. Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast presented by our friends and partners over at Breitling. Getting us right, keeping it tight. Had a really fun game tonight. The Cleveland Browns and the Denver Broncos. Jameis Winston. I mean if nothing else, he's always fun to watch. Jameis is always fun to watch. It's always going to be a lot of yards he's going to get put some points on the board. If they didn't have, if they didn't start, if they started James to this season at the beginning, they might be in playoff contention. I mean he's beat two really good teams in their division. He beat the Pittsburgh Steelers, he beat the Baltimore Ravens and he just Plays at a really high level. Mitchell and, and I know he had three interceptions. He, the p. He forced the ball in there and he had been really accurate throughout the night and it wasn't anything crazy. He was behind on the second pick, six. I think Elijah Moore could have probably tapped him down and ended that play, but I mean, outside of that, he pushed the ball down the field 497 yards. You just don't see that very often. I think it's a Cleveland Browns record, at least in the modern times. Broke the record for offensive output. And I think he's sending a message to Browns fans in that front office that, hey, not so fast, be careful just letting me go. And maybe he's auditioning for other teams and other teams are saying, if you need a bridge quarterback or somebody who, who deserves a career rejuvenation or turnaround, I think Jameis deserves it. You know, I, again, I always sit there and get flack for comparing him to Trevor Lawrence and Daniel Jones, but I think he's better than both. If I'm being honest, I think he's a better quarterback than both of those guys. And I don't think he gets the same kind of respect because he's thrown all the interceptions. But to throw for 5,000 yards in a season, 30 plus touchdowns, of course he had the 30 interceptions and that, that kills him. But if you look at a lot of these other guys, they're throwing a lot of interceptions, they're throwing a lot of turnovers and they don't have the kind of yards, they're not taking the kind of risk. They're not as productive as Jameis is. And if you talk about these receivers, I'm sure they love playing with Jameis Winston. You look at Jerry Judy today in his revenge game against the Denver Broncos. Nine catches for 235 yards and a touchdown. And he could have had more. James missed him on one of them. Elijah Moore, eight catches for 100 yards, 200 yard plus receivers in the same game. And it's not like he's doing it with the most elite weapons in the world. You know, Jerry Judy is a good player. He was highly touted coming out of Alabama, But Elijah Moore, also highly touted, but they had not been as productive as expected when they came into the league. And look at them, look at them under Young Jamis. But huge win for the Broncos and Young Bo Nicks, 18, 35, 294 yards, the one touchdown, had two interceptions. You can't try Denzel Ward too many times. I Mean heck of a play by Denzel Ward on a deep post covering Mems. He made a number of really cool plays in this game. The Denver Broncos did enough to win the game. Jaleel McLaughlin really started to get hot in the second half. Started to run the ball well. Javonte Williams and Michael Burton get the goal line touchdowns. Marvin Mims has The huge play. 93 yard touchdown, ends the game with three catches for 105 yards. Cortland Sutton, another 100 yard game for him. But the huge plays were the Nick bonito and Jaquan McMillan touchdowns. Obviously this defense gave up a ton of yards. Vance Joseph puts these boys in really difficult situations. And at the end of the day, it was a long day for, you know, as a db, as a corner. When you're giving up the kind of passes that I think it was Levi Wallace was giving up in this game, I, I feel for him because the fans are going to beat you up. You're going to beat yourself up. You got to go back and watch that tape. It's not a lot of answers. It's hard positions he's getting put in, covering the receiver with nothing but space. I mean, at the end of the day, Jerry Judy could have ran any route in the world and had all the space. If the pressure doesn't get home, that's the weakness of the coverage. I think Dance Joseph knows that when he calls it. They actually caught them in that coverage twice. He missed Jerry Judy on the right side. They split it to the left side later in the game. Bombs over Baghdad. Touchdown. I mean that's, that's just something that Denver is going to have to live with. Obviously they're, they're down one of their best corners, so they're just going to have to figure it out in the back end. And obviously that's a weakness that Cleveland thought they could exploit and other teams will look to exploit that. But huge game, huge win for Sean Payton in a Denver Broncos huge revenge game for Jerry Judy. Happy for him. I'm sure he would have wanted to help his team get this win, but one of his career high in a game. Coming back to Denver, showing these fans what he's really capable of when a quarterback, when he has a quarterback, they can get him the ball when he needs it, how he needs it. I think it was positive on both sides. Browns go back to Pittsburgh to play the Steelers. See if they can steal another win from them in this division. The Broncos head to a very well deserved bye week late in the season. That's Kind you love Mitchell.
- [07:08]
Mitchell
Yeah, they definitely are the beneficiaries of that rich and you know, more talk about Jamis here. This guy, there's no way, and I know we've already talked about it in previous segments, there's no way this guy is not a starter in the league. I mean, you take the name and the numbers off these guys backs and you just throw all these quarterbacks into the ring. Jameis is going to be one of the top 32 in the league. There's no question about that. It just goes to show you how he can elevate the people around him. This was a career day for Jerry Judy and for Elijah Moore. I mean, both of these guys, both Elijah Moore and Jerry Judy were considered. I mean, I don't want to call them bus, but underwhelming out of college for the draft positions. And both of them are now on their second teams with the Cleveland Browns and it seems like they must be very thankful to have a mature Jameis Winston, a seasoned Jamis Winston back there who's, who's taken a lot of steps since his days in Tampa Bay. This guy's really impressed me, man. And I think he's, if he's not the starter in Cleveland next year, he's certainly going to have a shot to be a starter somewhere else because there's at least a dozen teams that would love to have him right now. Richard, this is a huge one for the Broncos. I mean, the AFC playoff picture is it's pretty much closed out almost at this point. The last team really with much of an attempt is the Indianapolis Colts and the Miami Dolphins far behind the Broncos. So the Broncos needed this one big time. But we saw some flaws in them defensively. I mean, their defense was this highly touted defense that was really taking over games for them, but we saw some flaws. Fortunately for them, they came up with three huge interceptions, two of which were returned for touchdowns. But what really impressed me today about them is Bo Necks. I mean, this guy the second half of the season and I know he's not the Vegas favorite to win Offensive Rookie of the Year. I mean that's. That honor goes to Jaden Dan Daniels right now per draft Kings. But Richard, I make the case for Bone X here. How is he not overtaking Jaden Daniels at this point, especially with the Commanders having the struggles they've had over the last month?
- [09:10]
Richard Sherman
Well, Jaden Daniels has just been more consistent throughout the season. Obviously he had the three game skid or four game skid where things didn't go his way. But you know, he comes roaring back this week with a huge game and his team has just been a bigger surprise. I think obviously in this NFC east, you know, they've lost games and I think they're second right now in NFC East. But I think people give Jaden more credit for just from the beginning to now. He started off really efficient, breaking records for efficiency over his first four or five games of the season, and it's really cool to see Bo Nicks do what he's doing and start to turn it around the way he has. But I think Jaden Daniels just had too much of a lead early in the season, and if they continue to win and make the playoffs, I think it's just going to be really tough for him to catch him after everything that, that, you know, he did earlier in season, you know, he, he was the number two pick and when you start the season off hot, sometimes people just don't forget it. Sometimes they do, but I don't think they will. And if he continues to play like he did last week and continue to throw touchdown passes late into December, voters will remember it. Jaden Daniels Be your offensive rookie of the Year.
- [10:30]
Mitchell
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- [12:12]
Richard Sherman
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- [13:10]
Mitchell
Game Time Richard, let's talk a little bit about your San Francisco 49ers. After we got off last night of the podcast, we we had speculated it might be a serious injury with Christian McCaffrey. He certainly lurked that looked that way. Today we find out there was a PCL injury. He's going to be out six weeks, which means he's out for the year. To add insult to injury, Jordan Mason also goes on IR with an ankle injury. At this point in time, you just throw your arms up in the air and start waving the white flag in San Francisco or where's your head at right now?
- [13:46]
Richard Sherman
I don't think they have the guys to wave the white flag. I don't think they're built like that and but I think you do have to start playing young guys. You have to start considering whether you bring Trent Williams back this season or not, or do you just let him rest and heal up. Obviously, you know, prayers and condolences go out to Trent Williams. You know, dealing with a very, very tragic situation, I cannot imagine. And so all the love in the world goes out to him.
- [14:16]
Doug Godley
You.
- [14:16]
Richard Sherman
You wonder if you just don't let him. Let Jaylen Moore get some reps. Let this offensive line, try to hold it together. Obviously, you want to protect Brock Purdy, and I don't think Trent Williams is built like that. If he's healthy enough to play, he will be out there playing football. But I think that's something you need to consider. Obviously, Nick Bosa, I think, returns, but do you need them to return right now? They pay him a lot of money, but I don't know. I think at this point, you, you, you. You know, this has been a struggle overseason and. And I think you changed the perspective. You know, it's a disappointment, and we clearly understand how much of a disappointment it is to the players, the fans, the coaches, everybody. But it's a fun game. It's the kids game, and you've got to keep that in perspective and you got to find a way to motivate these teams going into these games. And if nothing else, have fun. Have fun. Let's open the playbook back up on offense. If, If Isaac Gorindo is. Is the guy, then maybe we. We have fun. Put, Put some trick plays in there to keep the guys happy. Run your offense, obviously, try to score points, push the ball down the field, but play like you got nothing to lose. Like, unfortunately, this season hasn't gone how you wanted it to, but all the pressure that's been on them all season, I mean, the pressure's off now. I mean, it's very unlikely, barring, you know, Miracle, really, that they make the playoffs. And if they do, it'd be really cool. If they do, it'd be great. But I think you have to allow these players to play free. Let the young guys play free and tell these guys, like, remember why you play the game. Remember your why. Don't. Don't let all the pressure. Let all the circumstances dictate how you go out there every Sunday and play. Don't let the circumstances change how you go out there and do your job. And I think if you. If you find a way to inject some fun and some energy back into this team, maybe guys respond better. They have a winnable game this week against the Chicago Bears. I know it's unfortunate, but it's probably a blessing in disguise for Christian, you know, just allowing his body to rest and reset. Injuries like that happen because he works really, really, really hard and he's pushed his body to the limit just to give himself a chance to come back and play for this team. And so it's really unfortunate that he had the injury, but I know those Achilles were still hurting him. I know his Body was in shock. Just coming back and being asked for what he's been asking it for. Next year he can start off fresh, ready to go and be ready to reset and play with a fire. And this time they're going to. They're going to not be front runners for the first time in a long time. You know, team people are going to be asking questions, is it over for San Francisco 49ers? And I think that'll be positive.
- [17:07]
Mitchell
I think going into next year, you're going to get a bunch of guys that are super hungry to get back to. Back to the top of the mountain. Richard and the window, like you talked about yesterday, it's not. It's not closed. They still got a lot of talent in the house and they've got. They've been able to develop some guys, D'Amador and Lenore being one of them. There's some other guys that are going to be able to continue to elevate their game. Let's. Let's see what Isaac Orndo does down the stretch here, too. He's flashed some speed and some explosiveness. So the division's still on hand. We'll see what happens with the San Francisco 49ers. But another. Another former San Francisco 49ers now are the Houston Texans made headlines over the weekend. Aziz Al Shair absolutely obliterated Trevor Lawrence. One Trevor Lawrence slid. I know he was a former teammate of yours. I know you guys probably have some sort of a relationship. I know he's a fierce competitor and this kind of stuff happens from time to time. And he seemed genuine in his apology post game. But, you know, what do you make of these sliding quarterback hits that we see from time to time? Obviously, it looked brutal in that moment, but what do you make of this?
- [18:19]
Richard Sherman
Well, first off, you know, thankful that Trevor is okay. You know, that's the first thing. But these is a really, really good guy, you know, a pure football player as I've ever known. And I think that, you know, when people start to get to a space where they're calling guys dirty and acting like he intended to hurt somebody, like, get the f. We can hurt people in this game. Understand that. Like, understand that. Please, fans, if we want to hurt people, they will be hurt. And it's not a sliding quarterback. You don't have to hit a sliding quarterback. We can get to them if we want to. We can hurt people. That's not why anybody plays. And you get bad karma. You get bad juju. You did not make it all the way to the National Football League by trying to injure people. He is a good human being. He's a good person. And people were putting some really nasty stuff out there, bringing his religion into it, bringing all this nonsense into it. Like, get, get out of here, get out of here with that nonsense, man. It's a football play and you don't understand how fast this game is and you don't understand how fast you have to make decisions. So it's really frustrating to hear fans talk about, oh, it's dirty and he intended. You're slow mowing things down and, and being like, oh, look when he started his slide. I don't know when he's starting to slide. Quarterbacks are fake sliding and getting, picking up. I mean, we've saw. Patrick Mahone's done it multiple times, multiple weeks and got 30 plus yards and we've seen it in college football, we've seen in the National Football League. And Aziz is at the first down marker. He knows exactly where he is. All he's doing is playing good defense and trying to stop him before the first down marker. Trevor's trying to be greedy, get a few extra yards before he officially slides. Don't play that game, Trevor, because you play that game and you're playing with fire. This is a violent game. Five, 10 years ago, it's, it wouldn't have been a flag at all. It would have been, hey, start your slide earlier. So it's one of those plays that's a bang bang play. It happens really fast. And when you're going to hit, once you commit to hitting, he's, he's gonna, he comes with violent intentions. I'm, I'm sorry. He plays middle linebacker a very old school way. He, he's gonna arrive violently. Watch him play the game. He's going every time. He doesn't, it's not because he's a quarterback. If it's a tight end, a running back, a tackle, he's going to arrive violently. That's how he plays the game. It's an unfortunate hit. It happens. This is the National Football League. Trevor understands what he signed up for playing in the National Football League. He understood what could potentially happen if he slid late. And that's what happened. You know, he got flagged, he got ejected, he'll get fined. Those are the consequences of the play. Just stop, man. This game has gotten too soft already and everybody's blaming it. Oh well, this player safety, they don't really care about the player safety. They care about offensive player safety. That's what has come down. That's what this game has become. Offensive player safety. Because you're letting defensive linemen get shipped to all get out and you're celebrating it. Hey, did you see how that, that running back crushed that DNS ribs or really chipped them or blindsided him and knocked him to the ground? And everybody said everybody's celebrating. Oh, yeah, look at that. Really, really cool play. But then when, when that's a defensive, this defenseless player, he's going to engage a tackle. He's not trying to engage a running back. So when you sit there and blindside him, that should be a flag. And I've talked to the competition committee about this, but again, they want to protect quarterbacks. You don't want to put. Is it, is it protect everybody or is just protect offensive players? Because that's what it seems like a lot time. So when, when offensive players have to deal with a little bit of physicality, everybody goes all up in arms, like, go watch the highlight tapes from the 2000s, please go watch the highlight tapes from the 90s. Then you come back to me and tell me how many of those plays will be legal today. That's what this game was built on. So I don't want to hear people sitting there coming at him with ridiculous takes because he made a football play or he made a really fast decision, split second decision. Because those. You're the same fans that if your defender gives up on a play and lets a quarterback get a first down, you're like, oh man, like so lazy. Put, put show better effort. Like, how are you going to let him get the first down? Like, that's how quick you have to think on a defensive side. You have to assume he's going for the first down. When he takes two extra steps unnecessarily. When he sees you in front of him, he sees that, hey, I'm here to stop you. I'm not going to let you go. And you take extra steps. You're telling me you might be trying to go. And so once I commit to making a tackle, it's hard to pull up again. Z is a great dude, a great human being, a fun dude. And I'm happy that he got to apologize. And of course, his heartfelt. He's a genuine human being. He wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it. So I'm happy he did that. But I hate all the nonsense that is talked online, Mitchell, because you guys just, I mean, stop watching football if you feel that softly about it. Like, just go watch Something else. Go watch soccer, you know, and watch them flop around and do all that. Don't watch this game.
- [23:32]
Mitchell
You're not wrong. I mean, couch critics on social media, they will get the best here. And to your, to your point, Richard, I don't know Aziz. I know you know him well, but seeing the way he handled the situation post game, you can tell that was not his intent. And you know, the way he handled it was. It was like a man. So kudos to him for the way he handled it after the fact. Richard, let's talk a little bit about this MVP race. We talked last night about it and you said Josh Allen should not be the leader or is not going to win the MVP is what you said. But DraftKings and Vegas in general thinks differently. They have Josh Allen as the leader of the clubhouse at a -225 odds with the closest person next to him, saquon Barkley at +350, followed by Lamar Jackson at900, Golf at 1200 and Mahomes at 2800. You have that much conviction in you. You still seeing, after seeing this and hearing this, you still believe Josh Allen is not going to win the mvp?
- [24:39]
Richard Sherman
Well, because I just don't know what it's based off on of anymore. You know, it used to be based off of elite stats and really, really special performances. And Josh Allen's team is having a special performance and he's performed special in certain games. Not that he's playing bad football by any stretch of the imagination. He's playing really good football. But MVP level used to be held to a higher regard. And just like last year, everybody was killing me because I was like, Josh Allen has 40. What do you have? 44 touchdowns last year, 44 total touchdowns. He had about 4,300 passing yards. He did have the 18 interceptions. That was, that was the red herring, that. But I was like, that's a great season. Like, that's an impactful season. That's a season worthy of MVP consideration. And this season he has a. He's going to end up with a lot, I can't say a lot less touchdowns. But he has 20 passing touchdowns, only five interceptions, which is a huge improvement. 334 rush yards, six touchdowns, and he still has five games to go. So you know that 2691 yards will probably get closer to 4, 000 if he. What is that? Let's see if he gets 250 a game. Five games. That'll be. Yeah, it'll be right under. Right about four, 300 something like that. But I just don't understand it when the numbers, I'm not talking about anything but the numbers, guys. Just like I was last year when I said Lamar with 24 passing touchdowns is going to be the MVP. And they told me, yes, I sound crazy, I'm stupid, I'm an idiot. Because I don't think he should get it. Because those numbers aren't really all inspiring compared to his MVP season where he had, I think, I believe 36 passing touchdowns and I think he had, I'd have to go back and look, but eight or nine Russian touchdowns and he just had a lot more that you looked at the stat line. You said mvp. Like if you look at it and you say, hey, completion percentage, does he lead the league? Is he top five? No passing yards, same. No passing touchdowns, no interceptions. He's probably close to up there. But then you look at Burrow and Lamar and you're just like, Burrow is just being let down at this point, but we're going to get to him later. Then you look at saquon barkley. Over 12 games, he has 1500, pretty much 1500 rushing yards, averaging 124 yards a game, almost 125 yards a game. 11 rushing touchdowns, which should be 15 if it wasn't for the Tush push and them giving it to Jalen Hurt hurts from the one yard line four or five times. 275 touches, 1700 scrimmage yards. That's starting to sound like an MVP numbers with five games to go. So if you say he averages what he averages for the next five games, what is that? 600 or so yards. So that put him over 2, 000 yards for a running back. That would sound like an MVP season. He'd probably be leading the league in all those categories. Mvp. That's what I'm saying. Like don't get mad at me because the numbers are the numbers, guys. MVPs usually lead the league. Now it's become such a popularity contest of hey man, everybody's making a lot of noise about these guys making special plays, that the numbers don't even matter anymore. When I, let's get to Lamar Jackson. When I sit there and say, man, Lamar Jackson's having an MVP season, He has almost 600 more yards passing yards than Josh Allen. Nine more passing touchdowns, two less interceptions, three it's completing a higher percent of his, higher percentage of his passes, has almost 300 plus more rushing yards. Don't call me crazy. These are the numbers. His team is 8 and 5. Sure. Could he have run a little bit more last week? Sure. Give you that. And will he win MVP without his team being a 1 or 2 seed? Probably not, but the numbers are the numbers. And just like Joe Burrow, Joe Burrow is being let down in such a criminal way by his defense. And it's, it's, it's really sad. I mean, to score 33 plus in four games and lose all four of them. So to have MVP numbers over 12 games and then be four and eight. They showed a stat where the quarterbacks had, you know, I think it was 3,000 plus yards, 30 touchdowns, or it might have been just 30 plus touchdowns, five interceptions over 12 games. And I don't think it was Tom, it was Aaron, it was Peyton, it was all them. And it was 10 wins, 11 wins, nine wins. I think nine was the least. And then it was Joe Burrow at four wins. And it's just like, my goodness, what, what a wasted year for him. And I can't imagine how he feels because you looking at that tape and trying to see what else he could have done more. But again, you look at his stats. 3,300 passing yards leads the NFL. 30 passing touchdowns leads the NFL. Five interceptions, MVP. If, if Josh Allen had those numbers, I'd be sitting there saying, you guys are silly. Give him the award, walk away like it's done. But he has 10 less. Touchdown P. 10 less. Like that's a huge number to have less than. And so I don't understand. People are acting like I'm hating. I really like Josh Allen. We just had that game. We, we talked to him. He's a great human being. He's playing phenomenal football right now. But is it MVP level? I don't, Maybe I'm, I'm looking at something different than you guys. Maybe I'm looking at something. And yes, I've watched the Buffalo Bills play. Yes, I understand how dependent they are on Josh Allen performing at a high level to win these games. I fully understand that. But, but do the numbers not matter anymore? If they don't, then, okay, then you got it. Then, then, then maybe, then maybe it's going to go to Jared Goff because they'll, they'll mess around and get the 1 seed in the NFC. He'll have 71% completion percentage, 2900 passing yards, 22 passing touchdowns, nine interceptions. Like they're 11 and 1 though, you know, like, what is the criteria now? I'm just baffled. I'm bamboozled. I'm flummoxed. I don't get it.
- [31:37]
Doug Godley
In the aftermath of a transformative election like the one we just had, it's hard to read the news without asking yourself every five seconds, how did we get here? That's exactly what we're always trying to figure out. On Fiasco, a history podcast from the co creators of Slow Burn. In our first season, Bush v. Gore, we examine an unmistakable turning point in American politics. The 2000 election, which came down to a recount in Florida and ended with one of the most controversial rulings in Supreme Court history. In many ways, it's the beginning of the story we're living through right now. So if you're trying to make sense of the present moment, check out Fiasco, Bush v. Gore and find out how a statistical tie in the Florida boat count put the nation into an unprecedented holding pattern during which American voters waited with bated breath to find out whether Al Gore or George W. Bush would be the next President of the United States. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [32:38]
Mitchell
I do have a lot of respect for Josh Allen. I think he should certainly be up there in this conversation. But to me, it's like the, the season that Saquon Barkley has had is unbelievable. He looks like. He looks like he did at Penn State when he was just running all over people left and right every game. And the way he's elevated and provided such a new dimension to this Eagles offense, Richard, it's. You can just see it happening. I mean, it's repetitive. This. The Eagles team with him at the, at the running back position, they just grind people down. And by that end, mid to late third quarter, you can just see the tide turn and shift to the Eagles. I don't think they're going to be anywhere close to 10 and 2 without them. And just the way he's been playing, if he does not win the mvp, what in the world is it going to take for a running back to win an MVP? Because there hasn't been a running back since 2012 when Adrian Peterson won it.
- [33:38]
Richard Sherman
Right? And that's what I'm saying. Like if you just look at the numbers, I just don't understand it. Because if you, if you tell me a running back has literally rushed for over 2,000 yards and obviously it's 17 game season. It used to be more rare over 16 games. But still give him credit because that's still over 100 yards a game. And you say that Josh Allen finishes in the positions that he is in now, he'd be 13th in passing yards, tied for sixth and passing touchdowns. I don't know. I just don't. I don't know because. Because what, what, what does it mean to be mvp, Most valuable player in the National Football League? If you're saying just the most valuable player in the league to his team, I just. Saquon is the most valuable player right now to his team. Take him off. They're different. You take Josh Allen off of Buffalo, they're a lot different too. They're bad. You take Joe Burrow off the Cincinnati Bengals right now, I mean, they might get relegated. We don't do relegations. But if you follow Major League Soccer at all. But teams get sent back to the developmental league if they're not competing hard enough and if they didn't have Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. Let's not disrespect T. They might be relegated. Mitchell. So I just, I don't know, maybe he gets hot and has a few 300 yard gains and, and really pads those stats and gets into the top five in those categories. But I just don't, you know, I, I don't understand the, the fixation where it's like, like he's a, he's the like clear favorite, you know, it'd be different if it's like, oh, they're all in. But you're saying he's a clear favorite. What, what numbers justify it, you know, that's it. That's all I'm saying. Josh. If he's going to win it, he's going to win it. Just like last year, I said this and Lamar still won it. Lamar deserves it this year. And now people are going to tell me he's not going to win it. I just, like, I don't get it.
- [35:46]
Mitchell
Because there's a quarterback captain in a team with a better record. Richard. And I mean, to his credit, he did catch a pass for a touchdown, throw a touchdown pass and rush for a touch pass last night.
- [35:57]
Richard Sherman
So really cool. But then if you say, if you quarterback captaining a quarterback, a team to a better record than Jared Goff is doing the same thing.
- [36:06]
Mitchell
I agree. And I'm all aboard that Jared Goffer MVP train. You already know that, Rich.
- [36:11]
Richard Sherman
If he wouldn't have thrown those five interceptions, it would be a lot. It'd be a lot more.
- [36:15]
Mitchell
It would, it would. Let's talk about some of these divisional races right now. Let's start with the NFC West. I know that's near and dear to your heart and right now the Seattle Seahawks have a game lead over the Cardinals and the rams with the 49ers two games back. Richard, do you like Seattle? I mean, bias aside, do you like this team to come out of the NFC West?
- [36:39]
Richard Sherman
I was about to switch hats, but I don't even feel like switching hats right now. I do. I just. This game against the Arizona Cardinals this week is going to tell us a lot if they win that. And I feel really good about their chances to come out of this NFC west barring, barring some, some disaster down the stretch. You look at Leonard Williams playing defense, playing really, really, really fantastic defensive football. That defense just seems like it's, it's feasting. Their energy is high, they're swarming. Ernest Jones has looked like a godsend coming in and really, really making his name known and making his impact. Tyrese Knight got a turnover last week, making his presence known, flying around, hitting everything, moving. They're just better fits in this scheme than the backers before. Tyrell Dodson, you know, who's now with the Miami Dolphins. They just look like they're doing the things that Mike McDaniel, I mean, Mike McDonald envisioned when he got this defense together. I think when they play like this, their offense will eventually come. If they give Geno time, he will get it done. Arizona is one of those teams that brings a lot of pressure. It'll be exotic. I'm sure Gannon will figure some things out and really come up with a great plan. If they can stop the run, that's going to be important. James Conner has been known to close the game out. If they can stop the run and beat Arizona again, then Mitchell, they're going to be feeling sitting pretty, pretty good in a good spot going down a stretch.
- [38:14]
Mitchell
The other team to worry about there is the LA Rams. I mean, obviously you give Matthew Stafford any opportunity and he can be dangerous, but this Seattle Seahawks team has looked completely different over this last three game winning strike streak. So you got to give them a lot of credit. And like you said, this game, this weekend is going to be the divider. If they can go up two games on Arizona and just have to worry about LA down the stretch, really, that would be a huge, huge weight off their chest, no question. Let's talk about my NFC North. I know you're coming into town this Thursday to watch my Detroit Lions take on the Green Bay packers right now. Richard, as good of a season as Detroit Lions can have. It's been a dream season. 11 wins, one loss. Best, you know, start to the season in franchise history and you'd think they'd just have a cakewalk for the, for the division title, but that is just not the case at all. The Minnesota Vikings are a game back. Green Bay packers are two. And obviously this Thursday is a huge opportunity for the Packers. You know, I love the Detroit Lions. I am very much so worried about them for these next two games because they need to get healthy. They've brought in four new bodies to this defense right now. If you look at the roster from the beginning of the year, and I know I'm talking to a guy who has been following the 49ers for the past several years, but this season, let alone you don't have much sympathy for the injury bug. But this Detroit Lions team is decimated with injuries. They've got to find a way to beat the Green Bay packers and get to the long week because they're going to have nine, 10 days off to get healthy. It's so crucial that they get a win this Thursday and then they can rest up a little bit on a mini half bye week before Buffalo comes into town. These next two games are going to mean a lot for the division. Richard, who do you, do you like the Lions? Can you, can you boost my confidence a little bit here?
- [40:12]
Richard Sherman
Yeah, I feel good about what the Lions are going to do. It's a division game, so even if you're fully healthy, it's going to be a dog fight. So don't. It's going to be ugly just like every other division game is going to be ugly. It's going to be close. It's going to come down to the wire. Do you trust your running backs in your offense to X rescue? I think they're going to lean on the run game with David Montgomery and Jameer Gibbs running that football. Your boy Sam Laporta will have some matchups that he can find. They don't bring a ton of pressure, but when, when Jeff Halfley does bring pressure, it usually gets home and it usually is right on time. But this offensive line, this is what they're built for. This is your time to shine. That time of possession is going to be the most important thing in this game and you just need that defense to get a few stops. You need, you need a few stops. You need them to drive down the field, get in the red zone. You need red zone stops. You need third down stops. You need to be Masters on third down. Yes, they can score some points, but again, Jordan Love can be really, really like all pro level fantastic when he's threading the needle and completing some really outrageous passes that very few quarterbacks can make. But then you look on the other side and he'll throw the ball to the other team a lot. And the guys that are healthy, talking about Kirby Joseph and Brian Branch, your safeties, there's 11 picks between those two alone. So if they can do what they've done all season, Kirby Joseph has seven, Brian Branch has four. If they can do what they've done all season, then I think it'll be fine if they can just get one or two turnovers, give that offense one or two extra possessions to really grind that clock down and, and just get out of here with a win, get you to that bye week. I think it's going to be, it's going to be fun, fun day. But this is a tough opponent and their defense can turn the ball over. Xavier McKinney, friend of the program, has, I think he has seven interceptions now and he finds a way to get that ball. So Jared's going to be have to be very careful putting the ball up around his vicinity because he will come down with it. I'm sure they'll, they'll push the envelope some with Jamison Williams down the field, but I'm in. Ross St. Brown will work in that intermediary area and so so will Sam Laporta. But I think Laporta and Jameer Gibbs are going to have to be the keys in that passing game this week for you guys to come out with a win.
- [42:33]
Mitchell
Richard, I will be in attendance and you will be there as well. That's this week's Thursday Night Football Preview brought to you by our friends and partners at Amazon Prime Video. Make sure you guys tune in this Thursday at 7pm to watch Richard in the gang. I hopefully I can get some screen time on there Richard with my in my seats I'll be yelling my face off. Go Lions. We'll see what happens there. Richard. Let's talk about the AFC North. These Steelers, I mean we've talked about them enough and they've certainly deserved to be so prevalent in our conversations. But they've proven to so many people how good Mike Tomlin is as a head coach. I mean not many folks thought that much of this team coming into the season. Not many people knew it was going to be to make of Justin Fields and Russell Wilson. They've got a two game lead over the Baltimore Ravens. I don't think a whole lot of folks would have seen this company. Do you think that they can hold off the Baltimore Ravens down the stretch with this two game lead.
- [43:35]
Richard Sherman
I do, I do. Because the Baltimore Ravens just keep stumbling down the stretch and they have tough games coming up. That loss to Philly was really, really, really damning to their hopes of winning this division because that would have gave him a chance. You know, I thought the Browns beating this Pittsburgh Steelers really was a, was a mulligan for the Baltimore Ravens. Like it gave them another opportunity. They were right there, still one game back, and then they lose to the Philadelphia Eagles. A really tough game and put themselves in a very difficult situation and they're not in control of their own destiny. They're going to need some help. They're going to need some Pittsburgh Steelers losses coming up in the future for them to have a chance. But the Pittsburgh Steelers have done a phenomenal job and Mike Tomlin has his hands all over it. You just look at these games. When they needed the defense to play well and keep the score low, the defense has played well, kept the score low. When Russell Wilson's needed to do more and have a career night, you know, second most yards in his career, he scores 44 points when, when Joe Burrow scores 38. Even when the defense is having a tough night, they find a way to get Turnovers. You know, T.J. watt is relentless. He's going to find a way to impact the game in some way. They find a way to score on defense and that's what's made this season really special for the Pittsburgh Steelers. George Pickens, obviously Tomlin talks about his maturity level with some of these penalties and just unnecessary things he does, but his talent is undeniable. He's made huge, huge plays for this team, especially on a deep ball. Calvin Austin has been a revelation in the past game. Always been a speedy, you know, return guy who can impact the game that way. But this season, Russell Wilson has trusted him to put it past the ball, giving him the ball, give him opportunities down the field and he's really taking advantage of them. So I don't see him catching them right now, you know, with how well they're playing. And on both sides of the ball, when one side struggles, the other side usually picks up the weight. And they're going to be a really tough out in the playoffs.
- [45:45]
Mitchell
Let's take it to the NFC South. We've got really a two team battle between the Atlanta Falcons and Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The Falcons have been struggling of recent. They off to a six and three start, have lost three in a row. And meanwhile the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have overcome a lot of adversity, losing both Chris Godwin and Mike Evans and back to back weeks. But they've been able to weather that injury storm and now one, two straight and tied it up with the Atlanta Falcons. The momentum seems to be swinging to Tampa Bay. Do you think Tampa can pull this off down the stretch?
- [46:19]
Richard Sherman
Yeah, I mean, Baker, Baker is a reason. Baker is doing whatever is necessary to get the job done. And again, Mike Evans comes back. Baker, Baker. They talked about it on the broadcast. Baker knows exactly the amount of yards Mike Evans needs to get a thousand yards. And he said he needs 99.2 a game, I think he said, and he's going to make sure he gets it. He had over 100 in this game. Really incredible one hand catch in the end zone and he just brings so much gravity and he opens up so many things in his offense. You seen, you've seen Bucky getting, getting a lot more space in a run game because Mike Evans is back in the lineup. And even though he gets all this attention, he still has 100 yards, eight catches. Defensively, they got a veteran defense that's going to make enough plays when they need them. Got banged up in the secondary. Our guy, Jordan Whitehead out for the season with a, I think a torn Peck. Mike Edwards, who just came back, a guy who's been with Tampa for a while, they know him, one of their favorite guys gets injured with a hamstring. And so they have to overcome those things and I think they'll be fine.
- [47:32]
Doug Godley
In the aftermath of a transformative election like the one we just had, it's hard to read the news without asking yourself every five seconds, how did we get here? That's exactly what we're always trying to figure out on Fiasco, a history podcast from the co creators of Slow Burn. In our in our first season, Bush v. Gore, we examine an unmistakable turning point in American politics. The 2000 election, which came down to a recount in Florida and ended with one of the most controversial rulings in Supreme Court history. In many ways, it's the beginning of the story we're living through right now. So if you're trying to make sense of the present moment, check out Fiasco Bush v. Gore and find out how a statistical tie in the Florida vote count put the nation into an unprecedented holding pattern during which American voters waited with bated breath to find out whether Al Gore or George W. Bush would be the next president of the United States. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [48:33]
Mitchell
Richard this Past week. Matt Eberflusse got fired I guess a couple days ago and but there's a bunch of other coaches that are on the hot seat right now. Brian Dabel with the Giants, Antonio Pierce and Peterson. All these teams are 2 and 10. You know, I don't know how much can be blamed on on Day Ball and Antonio Pierce. A lot more of that looks at the roster construction Doug Peterson's been dealing with. You know, the issues I think with Trevor Lawrence and other things in Jacksonville. But who do you think of these three is the first to go next?
- [49:08]
Richard Sherman
Well, I'll just give him my opinions on it. I don't think Brian Day Ball needs to be fired. I think, I don't think he was given a fair shot. You signed Daniel Jones to a deal that is not the quarterb quarterback he would pick. I don't think. You know, I'm sure he, he makes the best of the situation with what he's got. But like he said, roster construction has been an issue, especially on the offensive side of the ball. We all saw the behind the scenes videos talking about Saquon Barkley and oh, oh, he'll be fine. He won't get the money and he won't have an impact and people don't do a running back well. He went somewhere else and had an MVP season and I'm sure Day bowl would have loved to have Saquon Barkley and his abilities on this offense this year along with everything else. He didn't have it. He made the best of the situation that he had. They're going to need to shore up this offensive line. Unfortunately. Dexter Lawrence, arguably their best player, goes out with a dislocated elbow. You lose your left tackle and just been a rash of injuries. I think you have to start over and Debo deserves the ability to come drafted a really good young quarterback and help him develop and run an offense. Pick a tailor made guy for his system and then see how it goes. Get an offensive lineman or two in free agency and then see how it goes. I don't think he deserves to be fired without seeing how he would do with a young quarterback who's really talented and one that he picks.
- [50:33]
Mitchell
And what about Antonio Pierce? I mean I feel like it's almost the same story with him. He was interim head coach right. Last year and then ultimately took over and I think his background, being a former player really rejuvenated that team. He brought a lot of energy and you can tell he's an energetic coach that is very passionate. Do you think he is the right fit in Vegas?
- [50:57]
Richard Sherman
I think he's the perfect fit in Vegas. I think they set him up for failure. And if you fire him, it's such B.S. it's such B.S. because you didn't give him a good enough team to do anything more than what they're doing. They had the Kansas City Chiefs 111 number one record in AFC on the ropes, done for. But he's had to do this with Gardner Minshew and Aiden O'Connell. These aren't necessarily elite quarterbacks. They've done a really serviceable job. They had Devontae for a little while. They traded him away. You let Josh Jacobs go and so you knew that this, this wasn't going to be an attractive job this offseason, last offseason. So did you just give it to Antonio Pierce so that he could bite the bullet this season just to fire him until it was a more attractive position? When you have a high draft pick and you can get a quarterback of the future and you can, you can go move on like that, if they do that, I'd be so pissed off because that's total bs. You set the man up for failure, Expected him to fail. Fired him for failing with, with no chance to. Yeah, I hope not. I hope. I don't think he should be fired. Same situation with Dave O. Except he hasn't gotten enough time to even build a team. I mean, draft some really good players and see what we could do. They'll have a high draft pick this year. I'm sure they'll get a quarterback. I'm sure they'll try to attract some more playmakers on the defensive side of the football. Helps help out your pass rush, help out your offensive line and let's see what happens. But he hasn't been given a fair shake. So if they fire him without giving them a fair shake, then this was just, this was just a setup. This was a poison pillow setup job that you guys just wanted him to bridge until they got a pick, until more attractive coaches come, come knocking at your door because you have the number one or number two or number three pick of the draft. So no Doug Peterson, I mean, he's not going to fix Trevor Lawrence. Nothing's going to fix him. And they're going to keep blaming him as long as he's there for Trevor Lawrence's shortcoming. So I mean, I think he should go just because, just so that he doesn't have to continue to deal with that. Because no matter what, that's what they're going to do. They're going to blame him when they lose. And then if a new coach comes in they'll and a new, you know, highly touted offensive coordinator come in and they struggle again. Then people will start to finally say maybe the quarterback isn't. Isn't the guy.
- [53:41]
Mitchell
What's going on in Jacksonville is just wild because this team was in the playoffs a couple of years ago. They were, they were red hot. I mean I think there was even a poll going into last season. Which organization would you rather be? The Jacksonville Jaguars or Detroit Lions? And the majority of folks picked the Jaguars. So like this team was set up for success too. You had a high end quarterback, a number one pick. You had the other number one pick and Tavon Walker. They had all these guys that were supposed to blossom into stars and they just haven't and it's just been this downward spiral and I don't know when they're going to be able to rise back up rich. They've. It's so surprising to me but point being it's to your to echo you here. They're going to use Doug Peterson as the shield. I mean he's going to be the one taking the blame for this and ultimately I would not be surprised at all to see him the next domino to fall in terms of coaching firings. Richard, let's move on to buy or sell. I'm going to state some statements of fact to you and then ask you to buy or sell them. We've got some good ones this go around. I'm going to start with this. If you're a head coach, the Bears job opening is an appealing one. Buy or sell?
- [54:59]
Richard Sherman
Buy. Buy. Buy. Buy. Like, like was that NSYNC or was that Backstreet Boys? Bye. Bye.
- [55:04]
Mitchell
That was. I think it was NSync.
- [55:06]
Richard Sherman
Yeah. Bye.
- [55:07]
Mitchell
It might have been Backstreet's boys.
- [55:08]
Richard Sherman
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. We don't want to offend anybody. They have culture following be careful by it's really attractive job. They, they have good players on defense. They have good players on offense. You got a quarterback that's starting to figure it out and just need some structure and a system in place. Swift looked like a really, really serviceable good running back by I think, I think somebody can step in there and make them a playoff contender right now.
- [55:38]
Mitchell
Let's move to the Falcons. With the struggle of Kirk Cousins, your boy Kirko, the Falcons should Start Michael Penix Jr buy or sell?
- [55:49]
Richard Sherman
Sell. Sell. Unless. Unless we're trying to get people fired because if you're sitting $50 million on the bench, somebody gotta go. Somebody gotta answer to that. And not that Pennix wouldn't be a, you know, an upgrade or whatever, but you're paying Kirk $50 million to play quarterback right now. He struggled with this game. Sure, you got to stick with him. He's also thrown for 500 in a game, so you have to stick with him. And if you concede that he's not the guy right now, which I don't think is the right way to go about it, somebody gotta go, Richard.
- [56:25]
Mitchell
Sam Darnold has the Minnesota Vikings out to a 10 and 2 start. I don't think many people saw this coming. He has completely rejuvenated his career. After bouncing around from team to team over the last couple seasons, it seems like he's found a home in Minnesota. The problem is Minnesota just spent a top first round pick on JJ McCarthy who went down with the injury this year. Sam Darnold's going to be a free agent at the end of the season, is undoubtedly going to want a raise. The Vikings should give this man a raise and bring him back. Buy or sell?
- [56:58]
Richard Sherman
Buy. Buy. You go with the known commodity over the potential unknown and I think he'll be fine. You know, I don't think, I don't know, I don't know what he'll ask for, but I'm sure he won't. I'm not sure about anything because you deserve what you deserve. They go to the playoffs. If they somehow make a deep run into the playoffs and you don't bring him back, that would sound pretty dumb to me. But we have to figure out what the number is. You know, is it 35 million, is it 40 million, is it 50 million now? Is it a year to year deal? And you're just grooming McCarthy to replace him. But I don't think you go into the year next year with rehabbing McCarthy as your number one quarterback. If you've made a deep playoff run with, with Sam Darnold, I think that would be a mistake and I think, you know, the team and the fans would want to see Sam Donald run it back again. If they're able to do something in the playoffs. Now, if they have a first, a one and done playoff run, who knows, you know, it's still been a pretty good season, a pretty successful season by most metrics. So I don't know. I think, I think I buy that they should bring him back.
- [58:11]
Mitchell
We already talked about the Detroit Lions and their injuries, Richard, they faced tough opponents coming up. We've already discussed that, too. Buy or sell. The Lions will not have the 1 seed in the NFC when all is said and done.
- [58:32]
Richard Sherman
By. No, sell. Sell. Sell that. Sell that, Mitchell. Sell that. Because they're a tough team, but they're going to be beat to crap when it's the playoffs. So they're going to need to buy. They're going. They're going to work their behinds off to get it because with that schedule, it's just a rough and ragged season at the end. And then to end it with San Francisco in Minnesota.
- [58:56]
Mitchell
Minnesota, it's. It's a gauntlet.
- [59:00]
Richard Sherman
It's a gauntlet, and you're going to be beat up. So I think they can find a way to get. Get it done. You know, I got to go look at Philly's schedule and see who they have. I think they play the Commanders again, but, yeah, I think they can figure out a way to win those games, especially if they win against Green Bay. I think they'll have some answers for Buffalo. It's not in Buffalo, thank goodness, and it's in Detroit. That'll change some things for me. I think they can go to Chicago and win. A little turmoil going on there, and San Francisco's been beat up, but they'll probably be getting healthier at that point. Minnesota will be fighting for their lives at the end, so it's going to be tough, but they can do it.
- [59:44]
Mitchell
It is going to be tough. Richard. I feel like I know the answer to this one, but I'm going to ask it anyways. On we heard on Monday Night Football tonight, Troy Aikman was talking about playing in the snow. We played one time in the snow when he played for Dallas, and he said it was the most funny he has ever had. That was because he was a quarterback and he said no one else could really move, so he was just doing his same thing and it was just a slower game. But, Richard, I know you've had experience playing in the snow. I know you've had one game against Minnesota that probably was some of the worst conditions you've ever played in your life. But buy or sell, playing football in the snow is indeed fun.
- [60:22]
Richard Sherman
Sell the heck out of that. Sell. Sell it all. Sell it all. Don't leave. Don't leave any crumbs. I play corner, the hardest position on the field, so you're telling me it's the worst conditions. You can move in one slip and it's over and you got to try to walk on, you got to try to ice skate and cover receivers that you don't know which direction they're going. They can turn on dime, and if you make one mistake, it's over. Sure. Quarterback. It's. It's fun. Hey, they're not pass rushers. Can't get there as quick. You probably get hit a lot less. Your receivers are running slow, so it's easier to hit them on the run. Cool. Not at my position. My position. It makes it even more stressful and even more chaotic. Sale.
- [61:10]
Mitchell
We'll have to take Troy Aikman up on that then. Richard, we got to move to your power ranks here, man. This is the part of the show that I want to again. I'm giving you this Honolulu blue watch for you to wear on Thursday and hopes that you'll continue to show love to my team. Richard, how do you stack them this week?
- [61:33]
Richard Sherman
This week, Mitchell, I'll go with your Honolulu blue. Detroit Lions at one. The. I was live to watch the Kansas City Chiefs play the Raiders. I don't think they should have won that game, but they did win that game. So what they should happen did happen. But I can't put them at two right there with that performance. I'll give Buffalo that. That nod. Even though they have two losses and Kansas City only has one. I know people are going to talk about that. Kansas City at 3. Actually. Where am I? Yeah, actually, actually. Philadelphia at 3, Kansas City at 4.
- [62:09]
Mitchell
Wow.
- [62:10]
Richard Sherman
Yeah. Philadelphia beating Baltimore was a big deal. So I'll put Philadelphia at three, Chiefs at four, Green Bay at five. So we can have a top five matchup in our power rankings this week.
- [62:26]
Mitchell
Okay. I'm sure the Steelers fans and Minnesota fans will feel slighted, but we can't fit everyone in there.
- [62:33]
Richard Sherman
We can't fill everybody. And somebody will come out this week. Somebod will fall through. Well, unless Detroit loses and they'll stay, but.
- [62:41]
Mitchell
Well, Richard, that concludes. That concludes week 13. Next time I see you, we will be in Detroit. I know you got a guest on tomorrow, Richard. Sign us off as we conclude week 13.
- [62:54]
Richard Sherman
Well, thank you guys for joining us again. Thank you, guys. Everybody that's watching, everybody that's watched any episodes, we really appreciate it. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving and have a wonderful December. Play those Christmas jams, obviously, starting with Mariah Carey. All I want for Christmas is you. It has to be top of the playlist, but rocking around the Christmas tree. Brenda Lee has to be in there, too. You know, you might want to put Silent Night by the Temptations if you know what you're doing. But we appreciate you joining us. Stay tuned. We'll be back with a guest very soon. Hit that sub button if you're new or you got a clue. We appreciate you. The Volume.
- [63:58]
Doug Godley
It'S hard to read the news these days without asking yourself, how did we get here? Fiasco is a history podcast from the co creators of Slow Burn. In our first season, Bush v. Gore, we examine an unmistakable turning point in American politics. The 2000 election, which resulted in a high stakes stalemate, ended with one of the most controversial rulings in Supreme Court history. So if you're trying to make sense of the present moment, check out Fiasco, Bush v. Gore. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.