Richard Sherman Podcast - Richard Sherman SETTLES DEBATE: Seahawks' 2013 Legion of Boom vs. Broncos' 2015 No Fly Zone

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Richard Sherman Podcast – Richard Sherman SETTLES DEBATE: Seahawks’ 2013 Legion of Boom vs. Broncos’ 2015 No Fly Zone

Date: February 21, 2026
Host: Richard Sherman (guest appearances, but main segment only features Sherman)

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Episode Overview

In this off-season episode, Richard Sherman dives deep into a classic NFL debate: Which defense was superior—the 2013 Seattle Seahawks “Legion of Boom,” or the 2015 Denver Broncos “No Fly Zone”? As a cornerstone of the Seahawks’ historic secondary, Sherman methodically, humorously, and pointedly explains why he believes the Legion of Boom not only edges out the No Fly Zone but eclipses them by nearly every objective measure. He uses stats, anecdotes, and memories from those seasons—plus some friendly shots at his Broncos counterparts—to make a passionate, data-backed case.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Introduction & Context for the Debate

• Sherman sets the stage by acknowledging the NFL off-season as prime time for such spirited debates among fans and players.
• Quote: “It’s the off season, which means we can get into pointless debates about which defense is better... and in my personal biased opinion, it’s the Legion of Boom. And it’s not even close.” (02:44)

Respect for the No Fly Zone

• Sherman begins with respect for the 2015 Broncos, name-dropping Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib, Chris Harris Jr., TJ Ward, and Darian Stewart.
• Admits admiration for their style and success, acknowledges imitation (“imitation is the most sincere form of flattery”), referencing John Elway’s efforts to “recreate” the Seahawks’ build in Denver.

The Numbers Game: Decisive Statistical Arguments

Sherman draws a series of direct comparisons between the two secondaries:

• Interceptions:

  • Legion of Boom secondary (just the four starters): 20 INTs
  • No Fly Zone (all, including rotational): ~9 INTs
  • Entire Seahawks D: 28 INTs; Broncos: 14 INTs
  • “If you look at our secondary, just the starters… that’s 20 interceptions. What are we really talking about here?” (08:43)

• Passing Yards Per Game:

  • Seahawks: 172 yds/gm (led NFL)
  • Broncos: 199 yds/gm
  • “That’s a 27-yard difference per game.” (09:12)

• Passing Touchdowns Allowed:

  • Seahawks (2013): 16
  • Broncos (2015): 19

• Unique Turnover Production:

  • Playoffs: Seahawks had 8 turnovers in 3 postseason games (3 in 4th quarter alone of NFC Championship)
  • Super Bowl: Seahawks defense scored 8 points (safety and pick-six), special teams added 6.

Sherman’s refrain: “Again, how is it a debate?” (09:25)

Quality of Opponents & Super Bowl Matchups

• Seahawks shut down 2013 Broncos with Peyton Manning (record-breaking 55 TDs, 5,000+ yds): “We shut it down and we made it look easy.” (04:50)
• Broncos faced Cam Newton’s Panthers—a great season, but Sherman argues Panthers' passing attack not nearly as dangerous as the '13 Broncos.
• Saints in Divisional: Drew Brees (5,100 yds, 39 TDs that year) held down by Seahawks D.
• On the notion that Seattle “didn’t play anybody”: “We played Drew Brees... that would have probably won him MVP in this day and age, but Peyton had more.” (11:09)

Defensive Style: Zone vs. Man Coverage

• Responds to criticism that Seahawks “just played zone”:

  • Seahawks played man when needed, esp. on third down (about league average in man %).
  • “We didn’t play zone because we had to… we could have played man. We did play man when push came to shove.” (16:54)
  • Zone maximizes high-IQ players’ abilities (mentions K.J. Wright, Cam Chancellor, Earl Thomas, himself), allows for more takeaways.

• Dissects modern NFL defenses:

  • Most teams mix coverages; heavy man coverage isn’t prevalent or successful in recent years.
  • “Super Bowl winning teams… have not played a ton of man coverage. That's what the league has moved to.” (27:56)

Turnovers, Game Impact, and Identity

• “We would have given your offense 14 more possessions than you guys gave them...that's not including the picks that went for touchdowns.” (10:18)
• “We took pride in coming up, getting on the field and saying, hey, we're about to take the football again.” (27:09)

Talent Comparison & Legacy

• Sherman points to the number of All-Pros, All-Decade, and DPOY votes among Seahawks defenders; says several Legion of Boom members “would have been the best guys” on the Broncos secondary.

• “If you took [Legion of Boom members] and put them on the Broncos, they’d be the best in that secondary. Is that a debatable point?” (20:38)

• “The gap between the 2013 Legion of Boom and the 2015 No Fly Zone isn't even a closable gap.” (21:34)

• Admits if the numbers were reversed, the argument would go the other way—“If you said the Denver Broncos had double our interceptions, how would that be an argument?” (28:33)

• On personal confidence: “There’s not a corner in this world that’s going to say anything other than what [Talib] said...I’m not picking nobody over myself at any time, any place.” (20:19)

Broader Defensive Greatness & Context

• Recognizes Von Miller as the best Bronco and Bobby Wagner as the “best middle linebacker to ever play.”

• Points out the Seahawks’ defensive talent/depth beyond just the starters (Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, KJ Wright, Malcolm Smith, Walter Thurmond, Byron Maxwell).

• On Seattle’s enduring defensive identity: “We led the league in turnovers. We led the league in passing yards. We led the league in scoring for four years straight.” (19:13)

• Regarding the Super Bowl:

  • “We just dominated them from start to finish...Our defense scored 8 points in that game. Our special team scored 6.” (25:59)

Final Thoughts

• Sherman is open to being proven wrong if someone “can show me a stat or a number that makes their point,” but maintains no such number exists.
• Decision: 2013 Legion of Boom, definitively, is the superior defense to the 2015 No Fly Zone.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “It’s the off season, which means we can get into pointless debates about which defense is better... and in my personal biased opinion, it’s the Legion of Boom. And it’s not even close.” (02:44)
• “We shut it down and we made it look easy because of the team we had and because of the defense we had, because of the players we had.” (04:51)
• “What are we really talking about here? What are we really... discussing?” (08:44)
• “If you go through passing yards per game, the Legion of Boom gave up 172 passing yards a game. Number one in the league, No Fly Zone gave up 199. That’s a 27-yard difference per game.” (09:12)
• “We had 8 turnovers in the playoffs alone. In three playoff games. We had three in the fourth quarter of the NFC championship alone.” (10:49)
• “We didn’t play zone because we had to. We didn’t play zone because we were incapable of playing man. We could have played man.” (16:54)
• “There’s not a corner in this world that’s going to say anything other than what [Talib] said... I’m not picking nobody over myself at any time, any place.” (20:19)
• “If it was the other way, would it be an argument? It wouldn't. It wouldn't. So that's why I don't understand where the angst in this conversation has gotten and how it's gotten out of control.” (25:13)
• “The part of the argument that changes it is the two hall of Fame pass rushers they had. Von Miller was the best player on that defense. I think if you ask anybody who the best player on our defense that season was, it would start with the secondary.” (28:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:44] – Sherman introduces the debate and his bias for the Legion of Boom.
• [04:50] – Compares 2013 Seahawks to 2015 Broncos; respect to the No Fly Zone.
• [08:43] – Detailed statistical breakdown; INTs, passing yards, and touchdowns allowed.
• [10:49] – The Seahawks' superior playoff turnovers and impact, including “making MVPs look easy.”
• [16:54] – Discussion on zone versus man, defensive philosophy, and football intelligence.
• [19:13] – Defensive intelligence as a strategic advantage (“coaches on the field”).
• [20:19] – On DB self-confidence; who would get picked “first” if secondaries went head-to-head.
• [21:34] – Sherman states the gap between the Legion of Boom and No Fly Zone “isn't even a closable gap.”
• [25:59] – Super Bowl recount; defense/special teams dominance, Broncos-Panthers comparison.
• [28:33] – Sherman invites stats to challenge his argument, reiterates statistical superiority.
• [30:17] – Episode content ends.

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Tone and Language

• Sherman is passionate, slightly teasing, facts-obsessed, and unapologetically biased (with transparent explanations for that bias).
• He often backs up emotional or subjective statements with hard data.
• Maintains respect for Denver’s defense and counterparts (“I got a ton of respect for the 2015 Denver Broncos...”) even while picking apart their record.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

Richard Sherman’s argument is clear: The Seattle Seahawks’ 2013 Legion of Boom defense wasn’t just good—it was historically dominant, both statistically and in whom it defeated on the biggest stages. While giving credit to a fierce 2015 Denver Broncos unit, Sherman asserts there’s no legitimate debate if you look at actual numbers, playoff dominance, or the talent stocked on each roster. His summary: the Legion of Boom wins “and it’s not even close.”

Transcript

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And it's the off season and we ain't going nowhere. We're gonna continue to give you content all off season long. So again, hit that sub button. If you're new, hit that notification button. Because all off season, we're gonna continue to deliver the news and the updates and to keep you guys informed on your favorite players and your favorite teams. We always appreciate you, baby. Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast. And you know what time it is. It's the off season, which means we can get into pointless debates about which defense is better. The 2015 Denver Broncos no fly zone or the 2013 Seattle Seahawks Legion of Boom. And in my personal biased opinion, it's the Legion of boom. And it's not even close. But I will make that point in a lot of ways, in a surgical way throughout this show and you'll see what I'm talking about. But first off, we'll start. I got a ton of respect for the 2015 Denver Broncos. Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, AEB. Chris Harris Jr. Some of my favorite corners, some of my favorite guys to watch on tape. Some of the best corners in the National Football League during the decade that we played. Very effective. Like my guy, TJ Ward, big time hitter guy who played the game at a high level, played it the right way. Darian Stewart was a ball hawk in that secondary. Also laid the hammer, had a lot of, a lot of respect for those guys. Brewton, who played a really good, really good that season. But I just don't see it. I don't, I don't see it being close. You, you talk about our defense is two defensive player of the year candidates that year who came in top five in voting. Three third and five, respectively. Two first team all pros. Cam got a second team all pro. We got two all decade members. Chris Harris Jr. Made the all decades team, so got to give him respect there. But that season, our, I mean, it really, it really, if you really looked at the paper, it's not even a debate. It's not even debatable. It's not. If you go back and look at it is not even debatable. If you look at the opponents we played in the super bowl in the offensive efficiency and effectiveness of those teams, is it debatable? It's really not. MVP Cam. No question about it. Great year. Great season. That season. You gotta shut him down in the Super Bowl. But was that season better than Peyton Manning's 2013 where he threw 55 touchdowns and 5,000 some yards. No, I, I'll tell you that's true. No, it wasn't. All MVP seasons aren't created equal. And the one Peyton had is in the history books for a reason. And we shut it down and we made it look easy because of the team we had and because of the defense we had, because of the players we had. Now let me explain because your general manager, John Elway at the time, he said it best. He watched our secondary and said, hey, we need to recreate that to get back here. And we appreciate that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery and we're flattered. You built the defense based off the legion of Boom and they got to the super bowl in dominant fashion and got the job done. That's something to be said. I can respect that. But to then go back and say we were better, I'm a need you to prove that point. I'm a need to see the numbers. Because the numbers, They not numbering. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet Florida Sportsbook. I know it's tough with no football, but like the song says, I bet I will survive.

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[Richard Sherman]

We played man coverage on third down. Anybody out there, please, somebody pull up the numbers. Pull up the tape, because watch third down. Nobody's playing 100 man to man coverage. So don't get that confused. I. I hate when people say, we play man. They play zone. No, you didn't. You played zone. And we played some man. You played some zone. We played some man. We played some man. Y' all played some zone. Like that's how football works. Because. But the difference is, we didn't play zone because we had to. We didn't play zone because we were incapable of playing man. We could have played man. We did play man. When, when. When push came to shove. You can watch the tape and somebody can pull up the percentages. I know somebody out there has, has gone down and combed through our tape and can show you. We probably played, I don't know, 18% man to man coverage was probably right around the league average. We played it on third down because you got to play it on third down. Played it on second down. Sometimes when the situation called for. Played on first down. Sometimes when. When the run game and the situation called for. There's a lot of factors that go into playing man to man coverage versus zone. But when you have players as smart as the players we had, you have some of the highest IQ players in the National Football League on your defense. K.J. wright, one of the smartest players in the National Football League, Cam Chancellor, one of the smartest players in the National Football League, myself, Earl Thomas, then it's a waste of resources to say, hey, we're going to put you on this guy and you stop him, because that might not even be the guy. That, that. That beats you. That might not be Jackson Smith. And Jigba was the offensive player of the year this season. Honestly, the best receiver in the National Football League. He went out of the super bowl very early. What, what, what did man coverage matter at that point? It. What matters is taking a football away. And that's why most teams play zone. Now, most teams play predominantly zone and you're not seeing a lot of teams that play predominantly man make the super bowl because it's easily beaten. It's not easily beaten because you just don't have the personnel, but schematically it's easily beaten. You can, you can have the best corner in the league in the scheme. They can run a play where people get in his way and the receiver just weaves his way through all the way across the field and is now open like there's nothing protecting the, the DB from just getting picked off during a play by bodies. So you leave a lot of things up to chance, up to the referees calling a penalty. So our defense was, hey, really smart players. We're gonna, we're gonna run, we're gonna run the same defense as often as we can. And when we got to run, man, and keep things tight, we will. But we're going to allow our intelligence to benefit us in the maximum way. And that's what we did. That's why we had so many turnovers. That's why we had 28 interceptions, 20 by the start and secondary, because smart players were putting themselves in position to be successful. Like when you run the same defense, it's nothing special. They're not. The coaches weren't putting a ton of seasoning on these plays. They weren't. It's not some exotic blitz package where we're depending on the coordinator to put us in position to be successful. No, it's really smart players saying, hey, this is what we're running. This is the formation they're giving us. These are their tendencies in the formation, communicating thoroughly. Hey, you got this. Hey, we're going to bastardize this this way to give them a too high look or to give them this look. And then we're going to run the route for them and we're going to take the football from you. They gave us opportunities to see the formation, to see the ball to. That's why we ran the defense we ran because we were really smart and it would made us really, really effective. And that's why we led the league in turnovers. We led the league in passing yards. We led the league and we let the league in scoring for four years. Straight. You know why we do that? Because we, we are coaches on the field. We're understanding what we're dealing with. We're understanding the personnel we're dealing with. And then we're, we're just damn good players. And, and we'll go back to leaves commentary about if, if, if, if you put the two secondaries against each other. I'm picking me all day first off. And Lee, there's not a corner in this world that's going to say anything other than what leave said. I'm sure if you ask Chris Harris Jr. He's saying the same thing. You ask Byron Maxwell, he's saying the same. That's how we built. That's how corners talk. That's. I'm not pick. I'm not picking nobody over myself at any time, any place. I'm sorry. Especially guys that played in the same time as I play. So I respect that. I ain't got no problem with that. But that's not saying that. The, the necessary truth, if you took there are guys on our secondary that if you took from our secondary in 2013 and put them on the Denver Broncos secondary, they'd be the best guys in that secondary. Is that debatable point? Is that something that we're debating? I had eight interceptions in a season that season. The seasons we're comparing to 2013 versus 2015 with the that would have objectively been a better season than anybody on that secondary. Earl Thomas had five interceptions that season, first team all Pro, third and defensive player of the year voting. That would have objectively been better than any season. Anybody on the Denver Broncos secondary hat Cam Chancellor, second team, all probably with a ton of devastating hits, a ton of really incredible moments that you weren't seeing. I mean, some of the greatest plays in super bowl history that you're really not appreciating. I wish I could break them down for you. He was getting a seam that we're seam alert. Falls off the seam to cover the overall that should have been wide open. Peyton Manning was pulling his hair out about it because they thought that was a gimme and it should have been. But if not for Cam Chancellor's incredible play. But I, I say all this to say the gap between the 2013 Legion of Boom and the 2015 no Fly Zone isn't even a closable gap. Now let's step back. If you compared the 2015 Denver Broncos to the 2015 Seattle Seahawks, then you got a better argument. You got something to say, then you got, you got a point to Make. That was a down year for us, but we still let the league in points. We still were better than the 2015 Denver Broncos in point. We were second in yards. We gave up less passing touchdowns, had the same amount of interceptions. Like again, you're, you're not even going to be able to find a great gap there. They had, they gave up two 199 passing yards game. I think we gave up 210. Like people like y' all lost to the Panthers that year and they beat the Panthers. We gave up 161 yards and one touchdown to Cam Newton. I think I gave up 245 in the Super Bowl. Like it just doesn't always work out perfectly in these games. Jonathan Stewart had a, had a great run in the game. There was a, there were some, some plays that, that our offense would have wanted back. Some plays we would have wanted back. Shoot, we, it wasn't our best work. We were, we were, that was an off year. We did not play as well as we should have in that game. And they, they played the better game and they won. That's why they won. But to act like this was some crazy deal and to actually ignore the offense that we faced in the super bowl, which is one of the statistically greatest of all time, and we made them look like they were, they, they were a JV team that got to play on the same field as us. They got the garbage time touchdown that we were pretty upset about. Demarius had a bunch of catches and, and garbage time, but for the most part, we just dominated them from start to finish. They ran that hurry up stuff. We were better. We were more prepared. We were ready for all of it, all the smoke we scored. If you, even if you take away the p. Our defense scored eight points in that game. Our special team scored six. So that would have been 14. That would have been enough to win without our offense stepping on the field with the kind of game we played. And again, I keep hearing this like, oh man, they drugged this offense. We, I, I would imagine we would have drug them there too, and we'd have made it look easy. We'd have made it easier with more turnovers. We took the ball. We took pride in coming up, getting on the field and saying, hey, we about to take the football again. And in this day and age, it's hard to do. So I say all that to say if you guys, if somebody can, can show me a stat or a number that makes their point, I'm all ears. But there aren't many. There aren't many. And the man versus zone stuff isn't, isn't what y' all making it out to be right now in this day and age. Nobody's playing more than I think Denver played 30, 32%. Cleveland played a really crazy amount. I think they might have played 40, which is out outrageous for this time. I don't think before them that the league average is like 34, 35. It at its highest in 2019. It's at about 22 right now. The league average of man coverage, percentage of man coverage playing. Most people only play it on third down. It doesn't make a ton of sense to play in a red zone because teams are getting too creative. And again, it just feels like lazy coordinating to put your defense in those positions where, hey, it doesn't matter what you do. They can pick you off, they can run away from you, they can motion back and forth, get lost at the snap and then run the opposite way and, and you beat like it's it. It really puts a lot of weight on the secondary and on the player to get things right. And even when you get things right, it might be an incredible catch. Like that's why the super bowl winning teams over the last couple years have not played a ton of man coverage. A lot of them are six Big Fangio, six, this, this, two hybrid cover three, three fire zones. A lot of coverages like that. That's what the league has moved to. And again, if you really look at it, a lot of teams still play cover three because it's still great against the run. It still does the job that it needs to do in stacking eight in the box and getting guys gap sound. The Seattle Seahawks still played a lot of COVID three this year. They played too high. They played six, they played four, they played two man, they played regular man, but they played a lot of three as well. So I just don't get it. I don't get it. Y' all can tell me I'm wrong, but the numbers support what I'm saying. And I don't see what the numbers, how you can beat those numbers. If the numbers were the opposite way, I wouldn't have an argument to make. If you said the Denver Broncos had had a better points per game than us. We had 14. They had 18 then. I wouldn't, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to make that argument. If they had let given up less passing yards per game than us. I wouldn't be able to make this arg. If they had double our interceptions, I wouldn't be able to make this argument. And the opposite would be true. And it would be factual if they could make the claim, hey, we had double your interceptions. Like, what are we talking about? How would that be an argument? How would it be an argument if you said, hey, we had, we had 13 more turnovers than y' all as a defense, how would it be an argument? The, the, the part of the argument that changes it is the two hall of Fame pass rushers they had. Von Miller was the best player on that defense. I think if you, you ask anybody who the best player on our defense that season was, it would start with the secondary, regardless of who you pick. Now, Bobby Wagner is, in my opinion, the best middle linebacker to ever play in National Football League, and his numbers and accolades support that. I think Cliff Aver and Mike Bennett are two of the best pass rushers. They're going to be underrated for most of their career, but in 2013, they were, they weren't even the starters that year. It was Chris Clemens and Red Bryant still. And they would. And people don't even realize that that's what made us so great, is how deep we were. Bruce, Bruce was coming off the bench. It was a lot of guys, great guys, truck drivers coming off the bench. Brian, Brandon Meat Bang was starting. KJ and Malcolm were rotating at times. KJ and Malcolm were rotating to the point where, where Malcolm ends up getting super bowl mvp. It's crazy. And, and then we're not even talking about Walter Thurman iii, who would have been a starter on every team in the National Football League that season. And he got a little banged up and things didn't work out like it should. But one of the best nickels in the National Football League that season as well. And Byron Maxwell would have led for the 2013 season, would have led the Denver Broncos. And interceptions. Like I, I. If it was the other way, would it be an argument? It wouldn't. It wouldn't. So that's why I don't understand where the, the angst in this, this conversation has gotten and how it's gotten out of control. It's like not supported by anything. And if it was, I would respect it. I would respect if Leave had eight interceptions, first team All Pro, fifth and Defensive Player of the year voting. And I had three interceptions and we won the super bowl and we were playing a lot of man. I'd say, Lee, you had a better season that year. Like, I, I think I'm better and I think I you. You know, I still got my numbers, and I still do my thing, but if we comparing him to seasons, he got that one. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Guys got a lot of respect for what they did that season. They dominated, but it. What we did is better. And that's the easy way to put it. Appreciate y' all joining me, as always. You could be anywhere in the world, but you're here with me, and I surely do appreciate it. We'll see you next time.

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