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Richard Sherman Podcast - Rod Woodson on Steelers football, 2000 Ravens defense, 71 INTs & NFL DB play today | Richard Sherman
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- [03:07]
Rod Woodson
We could have played together. And I can say that I don't say that lightly. That hit was one of the most vicious hits I've seen. The New York Giants in the Super Bowl. I said, man, you do can't beat us, man. I know you watch ball. I mean they're. The fundamentals are gone.
- [03:30]
Richard Sherman
Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast. I'm happy to have a legend on today's show. Hall of Famer, super bowl champion, former defensive player of the year. N time All Pro, man, the list is long. 11 time Pro Bowler. Not just a DB. He played safety, kick return, pump return, did it all. Two time interception leader in the National Football League and still holds the record for most pick sixes in NFL history with 12. It's my honor to welcome Rod Woodson to the show. Appreciate you joining me, man.
- [04:04]
Rod Woodson
I appreciate you having me on, sir.
- [04:06]
Richard Sherman
It's, it's my absolute pleasure. You are an absolute legend. 71 interceptions in the National Football League. I mean, Dick Night Train Lane is ahead, but I still, you know, I got to go back and look at some of them. Dick night train lane. But 71, like that was crazy. You got drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers in 87, stepping into that old school Steelers culture. What was your welcome to the league moment back then?
- [04:32]
Rod Woodson
Oh, shoot. That was like, that was my first game we played, I think with New Orleans, you know, and I, I held out. So my rookie year, it was 87. So that was the holdout year. So that, remember the scab player, so to speak. So the holdout. And then I didn't sign my con, my rookie contract until October 28th. So I only played about five, six games. Seven games when I remember my first game, kick returner. To have me kick return, you know, college, bro. You know, you Kick return. You break. Hole opens up, it stays open in college, not so much in the National Football League. I see the hole, I hit it, dude, I got. Ah. I go this way. Ball go that way. Fumble recovery. They get the ball on the five yard line, we lose by three points. I mean, I was devastated, you know, coming on my first game, but that was my welcoming to the NFL moment because I just thought I was fast. I knew I could run. I was like, man, all these dudes can run. Everybody can run. Football league. I mean, the best of the best of the best of the world. But I was lucky. I had. John Starwoods was still playing, Donnie Shell was still playing, and Donnie was my. Donnie became. They paired me up with Donnie on the road games. So I got a lot of knowledge from Donnie. Mike, Webby. Webby was still playing. So I got a lot of love from those older guys to teach me the right way. Hey, don't hang your hat. It happens. It happens in the National League. Everybody's gonna have those moments where you get got, right?
- [06:09]
Richard Sherman
No question about it. And it's such a hard lesson for you to learn because you come from being in college being so dominant, and then you get. You get that wake up. But then it's like, you gotta snap back into that, like, I can play with these dudes. So when did. When did that happen for you? When you say, hey, man, I can. I can still play. I can play in this league too.
- [06:29]
Rod Woodson
Yeah. You know, I. I never. It was kind of crazy, Sherm, because I'm a quiet dude, but I never had a problem with me believing in who I am. I was the youngest three boys, so my oldest brother, my older brother, middle brother, used to beat snot out of me. But we used to, like, we used to race. So Reynolds and Chestnut used to play against projects and everything. So we had track meets, we had football, we had basketball, we had baseball. And then we started running all the Dustin Cats, and they was four or five years older than me. I'm like, right? So that kind of gave me some confidence of who I was. And I never. But I never really had a doubt because my brother beat me up all the time. So it kind of toughened me up mentally. And then when I got into the league, I was blessed with Tony Dungy. So I had Tony as my DB coach and my D coordinator. So I played safety in college, right? I played safety in college. They moved me to corner when I ran my 40 at the combine. And so I had to learn how to play out there. But To. To say that I, like. I think there was moments that I had where I had to learn how to play corner. I had some doubts because I remember one time I was playing against the Buffalo Bills and James Lofton out there. James Lofton runs right, and James can run. James can run right by me. I kept back over. I didn't even turn. They throw the ball up. Touchdown. And I come to the sideline, and Tony looked at me and said, what were you thinking? I said, coach, I have no idea, you know, but I was like. So I had to, like, figure out how to, like, play that position. But once it was like, year, I would say, because we were kind of young in our secondary. We had five rookies in our secondary. My rookie, my rookie year. So I think that the second year, probably three fourths, way through the season, where I started saying, oh, yeah, yeah, I. I got a feel for this. I still had Tony there. Tony leaves after that, and then a guy named Rod. Russ comes in, and Rod week, like week two, cusses me out. New mother effing. I mean, and gave it to me. And he said, you need to learn this game. I was like, gee, I mean, I said, well, teach me. And me and him went into the office for about four weeks. And his first question to me, Sharon, was, how many formations can all of us get into? You know, I'm thinking, I'm like, oh, God, 500. He was like, man, how many eligible receivers? I said, five. He said, they can get a fire formation. And I was like, what? He was like, yeah, what they do, they try to confuse you with these different people. But if a receiver's by himself on the backside and he's flexed, he's the X. Don't matter if he's a tight end. Don't matter if he's a running back. So he's going to be the X for the offense. We just. We make him the running back all the time, so it confuses us on the defensive side. But they move these pieces around, and then the final formation comes out, and they only run about five plays. So we go through the process. It took me about four weeks to really, like, really, really believe it. That green light clicks on. I'm like, oh, get out of here, coach. That's all they do. That's it. That's all they do. They just disguise what they're doing. They kind of their intentions, and you just got to believe it. I said, oh, shoot, don't worry about that. And I'm gonna believe it. And then after that, I went to seven straight pro bowls as the corners corner. But it was for, it was because of having a guy like Tony initially because I was messing up and Tony, you know, Tony don't yell and scream and all that stuff. But then I need a ride after Tony left because Rod got me straight, he got me straight up here, but he also taught me the game. So I think if I didn't go to Pittsburgh, I probably wouldn't have been as blessed. But going there, having Tony give me love at the cornerback spot and let me feel that I'm worthy to be out there. I never had that self doubt. But getting that love from your coaches and then learning from those old heads, those OGs, I mean that was, I was overly blessed. And then after that, Dick LeBeau comes in for five years. So you know, my 10 years in Pittsburgh, man, I was like, I was overly blessed with too much knowledge at the coaching position and I just had to be able to absorb it.
- [11:22]
Richard Sherman
Wanting to learn trauma and that takes, that takes some humility as well, is being open to those conversations and open to the learning. I think the thing that helped me develop fast because I, I, I honestly I'm not a great peddler, so I couldn't pedal. So I'm, I'm six three with big feet and not a great pedal. And so because I came from receiver in college and so I played receiver my first three years and Bill Walsh literally came in and installed the west coast for us my first year at Stanford. So actually it was my second year because Harbaugh brought him in. And so I learned it, we learned it from the master, so we learned it from the beginning. And you know, most offenses in the National Football League, the, their west coast, like at their roots, at their screws, at their, their, their west Coast. So once I learned to play every position in that offense, then my junior year I switch over to defense. Now I can't pedal, I can't pedal now, Rod. I can't pedal at all. But I know the route tree. I know where everybody's supposed to be. I know every combination of routes. I know every split, every like the spacing of everything when they're in a bunch, what like process of elimination. I'm super smart with that, right? So I understand every bit of it. So when I get to the league and get an opportunity to play, I tell Pete like, I'm like, pete, I'm gonna play with my butt to the sideline. I'm gonna almost like get halfway to running the route, right? Because that's going to put me in a better position to be able to cover these guys like you want. If I, if I get in a pedal, they're going to be able to beat me. Like, I'm going to get beat more times than not. But if you let me play and it's half cocked, like shuffle right, I can, I promise you I can get, I can break anywhere you want me to be. And I'm already anticipating the routes that I'm going to see, the routes that I'm going to get. And so in my first three years in the National Football League, I had 20 interceptions because it was, it just made sense to me.
- [13:17]
Rod Woodson
It was like, hey, Pete let you do it.
- [13:20]
Richard Sherman
Pete let me do it now. He told me this. Go ahead now. Go.
- [13:24]
Rod Woodson
No offend.
- [13:24]
Richard Sherman
Finish what he told me. He said, hey, you can do this, but if it doesn't work, this is your career. You know what I mean? Like, if it doesn't work, you're gonna sit down.
- [13:35]
Rod Woodson
Absolutely. But, you know, that's what I like. That's, to me, great coaches allow you to be you like you knew your negatives, right? You're not a great back color, you know, but you're long. Like, I graded you coming out, I graded you coming out. Your short shuttle and your three cone were fast. Like, I mean, and when I look at like I, I got you on my, I got like a little like a board of all the really good players who've come out the last 25 years and the guys who are played at a really high level and you're one of them that I have on the board. I'm like, you know, your 40 time wasn't like 4, 3, 4, 2. But you don't need a 4, 2 when you're a short shadow in their three cones as fast as you were. And I was like, appreciate that. So what I've learned when I started coaching is that every player is different. Some guys got tight hips, some guys can back cuddle, some guys came back cuddle. Some guys don't like, press. And you got to allow the really good coaches, allow players to be themselves inside of their system as long as they don't go rogue, Right?
- [14:43]
Richard Sherman
Right.
- [14:43]
Rod Woodson
And then you gotta, you gotta make plays when they allow you to do that, right? You gotta make plays so they can, they can say, see, look, my boy, he doing his thing. I'm allowing to do it, all right? I ain't going to let everybody do it. Right? But he can do it and.
- [14:59]
Richard Sherman
Right. And that was, that was a conversation. Sometimes in those rooms is, is, hey, you guys, stop doing it because it's not working for you. You can't play but to the sideline and make the plays and run this dig for the receiver or break on his pass like he's doing. So just play in your pedal because you're a good peddler. You can, you can feel, you can go with the weave and you can play it that way. But he's better at this than you guys, right?
- [15:22]
Rod Woodson
See, that's a good. See, that's what I love. That's what I. Cause Tony allowed me to be me because I used to jump out of my stance. So I would be in my. I'd be impressed. And I would always jump and Tony would try to get me to get out of the jump. And then Dick comes in and Dick was like, oh, you jump out of your stance? Oh, he fine. He was like, cause you can get out of it, right?
- [15:45]
Richard Sherman
He said, so did you, did you hop to wide?
- [15:48]
Rod Woodson
Yeah, I was narrow hopped away.
- [15:51]
Richard Sherman
Okay.
- [15:51]
Rod Woodson
And I never had. I mean, when I first started, I would be a little lower than I wanted to be. And Dick got me more up here, more upright. So being more in the athletic position. So I wouldn't. Because every time I had to really start running, I had to raise up anyway. Right? I have the waste of movements and hang. Have these weights of steps. So even in year five, I got better because Dick was like, look, you do this, you're going to get that much better. And then, heck, I think the following, the following year, that's when I was doing the player of the year. Wow. Wow.
- [16:28]
Richard Sherman
See, that's, that's a. That was another huge. That's a great point because that was another huge change from college to, to the National Football League is my stance because I was. So they told me to be so low in college and I'm six three. And it's like, they're like, you got to get low in your stance. And I'm like, bro, by the time I raise up there by me, because you want me to be so low. And I'm like, if you let me be in a comfortable stance, I can move with them. But it's like, like you said, I got to raise up. So when I got to Seattle, Pete got in front of me literally maybe first or second day out there, and he worked on all of us with our stance and he was like, hey, getting a stance you could stand in for two hours. And I was like, I can't stand low for two hours. So I'm I'm almost like, I got a slight bend in the knee, but it's almost like a basketball. Like. Like, I got a slight bounce, right? And he was like, can you stand in this for two hours? If I came back in two hours, you'd be in the same position. I was like, yeah. He's like, this is your stance. I'm sorry.
- [17:22]
Rod Woodson
Okay, that's a real good point right there. I never heard of it said like that.
- [17:27]
Richard Sherman
That's what he. That's how he got us.
- [17:29]
Rod Woodson
I. I like. I like that. I like that saying. I'm a showman. I'm still in that.
- [17:34]
Richard Sherman
Yeah. Okay. It was. It worked. It worked for me.
- [17:37]
Rod Woodson
And.
- [17:37]
Richard Sherman
And ever since then, my press got better. My. My step replaced. My step kick got better, and I was so much more patient and comfortable because I didn't feel like now I would sometimes jump in my stance like you did. Like, if I had a quicker receiver that I was dealing with and I wanted to, like, speed him up, I would almost jump, like, almost. Not like a half an inch forward, right? To, like, speed him up. So they can't do all that. Like, no. Let's go now.
- [18:04]
Rod Woodson
Right? Because that. Because he taught. Did he. Did he teach you guys? What is it? Pure step?
- [18:10]
Richard Sherman
No. Yeah.
- [18:11]
Rod Woodson
Is that what he called it? The pure step? Yeah, so he called it the pure step, so I know. So when I was coaching with Kenny, Kenny had us teaching it, and I was like. I said, give me the philosophy behind it, Kenny. I said, I know you want him to be patient. But then once I learned it, I was like, oh, okay. I see what the overall aspect, what you're trying to. You're trying to get everybody to slow down, slow your head down. Like, be calm. I said, that's the. At the end of the end of the day, that's what you want from your players anyway. So, I mean, like, so that's. That's really good. Like what Pete said to you guys. But what he also let you do, though, he saw. He saw that you're there, but he said, hey, he can bail and he can play just as good. So I'm gonna let him play. I'm gonna let him bail when he want to bail.
- [18:59]
Richard Sherman
And so we would. We would usually only bail if two. If we had two displaced. So that was our cover three philosophy is, hey, if you single. If you got a single receiver. No, no two displays, even if it's a tight end, even if you're on a Z, you're. You're pretty much in, man.
- [19:14]
Ryan Seacrest
You're man.
- [19:14]
Richard Sherman
Yeah, you press, man. Like he runs a fade. You got him come back, you got him. Dig. You got him everywhere. Now, if you got two displays, you have to bail because you have to see two, because you got the vertical of two.
- [19:25]
Rod Woodson
Real train.
- [19:27]
Richard Sherman
And so. But it would help me see the picture. And we had such a smart defense that, hey, if I got two displays and two starts to. To go over, then I know one's coming to replace him in that zone. It's either going to be a dig or a post. So.
- [19:41]
Rod Woodson
Right.
- [19:42]
Richard Sherman
Hey, hey, Bobby, I need you to go with that. Go with that one. I got this dig. I'm gonna drive the dig. I'm gonna drive the ram route or whatever you guys call it, right? And I'll probably pick that or. You know what I mean? We. We had such a great feel for things like that, and it was a lot to do with just, you can only attack, cover three. And what we were doing so many different ways. And when we played, man, it was. You expect the three concepts because they think you're going to be in three. Even when we're in. Man, you're like, hey, they're going to run three beaters here because they think we're in three.
- [20:09]
Rod Woodson
Let me ask you a question. So if you guys were in displace two, but you had a wide gap between one and two, did you guys ever lock it?
- [20:21]
Richard Sherman
Rare. We started to do it later on in our career, in my career, but rarely. Rarely because. Because it would. It. It would cause such an issue. We would still have the buzzer buzz out there. He would almost be between one and two, Right. So he'd buzz because you didn't want to create that big gap when one did the quick hitch and two ran a seven.
- [20:41]
Rod Woodson
Right.
- [20:42]
Richard Sherman
And so I would almost angle towards two to overlap to close that lane so there's not space.
- [20:49]
Rod Woodson
Right. Okay. Okay. I like that. I mean, because it's good to talk to guys who really understand ball but understand the cornerback position, like in the aspect of what offenses are trying to do to defense and how you play inside of that. Because at the end of the day, so many. So many routes they can run. Right? And now nowadays, they're running more options off of where our bodies are at. Right. That's the old. Like when you go to run and shoot, the run and shoot was based on wherever our body was at, they're going to run opposite of that. Right, Right. And then when you got the K gun, which is the Buffalo Bills, and then you got the what's the other one called? The, the air raid. Air raid. Like they're flooding zones. Right, right. So the, like to understand, like the philosophy, how you're going to play against those guys and playing against those, having really good coaches to help you understand the defenses, but then allow you guys to make certain calls inside of your defense. That to me, that's when you find really good. That's why your defense was, your defense was so good because you allowed to talk to each other. Major checks, any of the major checks, and you go play ball.
- [22:00]
Richard Sherman
And we would bastardize it too. At times. Like if we got in a unique situation in the game, they trusted us, the coaches, literally. We would do things on the fly and then talk about it in the meeting the next day. And they'd be like, what you guys do right here? It was like, coach, hey, you wanted to get them covered. We knew that Gronk and Edelman were going to quick switch out of this nasty split. They were stacked up on each other. And when they, when they switched, we knew, hey, Cam, you want to be on Gronk, I want to be on Edelman. We don't want them to get the matchup they want. So when, when Edelman breaks out, I'm going to take him, you take Gronk up the middle and we'll deal with it later. We don't have a call for this. This isn't how the defense is normally played. But they'll, the coaches will. Look, we both are pros right now. I think they'll, they'll live with our decision making right now.
- [22:40]
Rod Woodson
No, see, I like that and I like coaches. To me, the great coaches in the league are the coaches that allow you to be you inside of, inside of the system, allow you to be you and make your calls. Because we made, I made some crazy calls. We, we made crazy calls, but we knew this defense, we knew what we wanted to do. We knew what we wanted to accomplish. We knew what they were trying to do against us and our coaches. Let's do it.
- [23:08]
Richard Sherman
And that's the beautiful part of defense. You had 71 picks. Like what, what. That's. I mean, it's still second all time and, and nowadays nobody's getting that many. I think I, I led the decade with 37 in the regular season and four. So 41. But it's so much harder because they're letting the quarterbacks be more comfortable. Like they're not knocked out, they're not concussed, they're not worried about getting killed during the game. What do you think was like your favorite interception? And then what do you think helped you throughout? You know, just to get that many of them? Yeah.
- [23:40]
Rod Woodson
You know what I would do inside of. Inside of our system? I will play Cover 2 sometimes at 8 yards off, but Tony would let me. So I would play eight yards off. I would press sometimes in cover two, bail, then stop at three yards so they don't know if I bail. Is he bailing and he's always bailing or is he bailing and he gonna stop? Is he bailing? Cause he in cover two. Is the dude off at eight is. And I would take like three steps at eight yards, and I'm like, if he runs a hitch or slant, see, I'm gone. If they don't, then I'm just going to get in their way because I can't touch them that far down the field. But I still can reroute them with my body so I can get in the way of them. And still. Because we. We call it up and outside so that. That up and outside and cover two. We would cover that all the way. That soft squats. What we call it, we will call. We. We. I could take it out up to like 15 yards.
- [24:38]
Richard Sherman
15, 10 to 15.
- [24:39]
Rod Woodson
That.
- [24:40]
Richard Sherman
That window up there.
- [24:41]
Rod Woodson
So, I mean, I would do all kind of crazy stuff. I would play. I would. I would stay. I would. I wouldn't let the receiver and the quarterback see me pressed or being off and say, oh, he's going to do this and be like, no, you don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I'm going to sometimes do it. Sometimes I'm a quick Jamie, so I'm act like I'm going to do it. I'm going to be able. Then I'm going to stop again. And so I try to make them think more. And then I had in my head, I had got four formations in my head. Okay. They're going these four formations. As soon as they come out, I'm gonna look at my safety and just not. And he, like, he. If they'd run. They better not run that route. Like, if they run that route, it's over, right? I mean, had some teams that run the route and I got them. And I have. Remember Green Bay, Brett Fars first start. They ran every. Every time. Sterling Sharp was on the weak side, back was offset far away from the tight end, offset far. They were swinging the back. And he would always run a curve
- [25:48]
Richard Sherman
slant, no run curl.
- [25:51]
Rod Woodson
Ran a curl on the backside. So I'm like, boy, if they run, that is over. Got me. Double move touchdown. Then I. I go back. I think it was like four series later, I muffed a punt. And then they know. Normally when I. When, you know, when you make a mistake, you try to recover, you try to slug. Next play, sluggo touchdown. Oh, so it's like. So, you know, they can use that against you. But the one thing I try to always do and which I had, Tony and the coaches that I had, it just allowed me to show different things. Like, we would. Sometimes we would. We would cloud. Reduce splits when we didn't have to. Sometimes we would cloud it. I'll become the safety. The safety come down and be the corner. And they'll let. They let us do it right, you know, because they knew we were comfortable and making these calls. And heck, listen, at the end of the day, even though I was a big corner, my safeties are bigger than me. Right tackle better. You know, they were better tracked so to speak, than I was. So why not put him in cloud if it's right?
- [26:57]
Richard Sherman
I mean, you played for so many great defenses. I mean, that 2000 Ravens defense is still one of the best defenses of all time. And they're always in that conversation. We were having this debate online, you know, the. The 2015 Broncos defense and then the Legion of Bomar 2013 defense. Like, which one was better? And obviously, you know, which one I feel was better. But, I mean, you talk about that Ravens defense, there's no conversation that doesn't include the 85 Bears to 2000 Ravens every single time. What made that defense so special?
- [27:31]
Rod Woodson
You think, man, you know what? It was the growth that we had over the first two years. Sherm. Like, I first got there in 98, and the first year, we were like 6 and 10 or something crazy. Second year coach retires, we get Brian. Billy could come in. Martin Lewis is the D coordinator. Martin Lewis was in Pittsburgh with us, right? So we're running the same defense that we used to run in Pittsburgh, but 4. 3 instead of a 3. 4. Right. So we had to do some things kind of like bastardize some of the form, some of the defenses on the backside because of our defensive end instead of outside linebacker, we had to do that. But I. I think what made us good is that Ray came into his own. Like, Ray became. He was making plays. He was already a tackler, right? Like, you know, when he. When I first got there, Ray was. I think he. He was. He led the team of tackles every single year that his first, I think two, three years and he kept getting better in inside of the game make. Then he started making big plays in these big games. But I think what really made us good is to be honest, is that we had leaders across the board. So we had leaders up front. We had Sam Adams, Tony Sierragusa, and everybody knows Goose because Goose was so crazy and silly and he talked crazy. Everybody but Sam Adams. That dude could get it. I mean Sam Adams can get it. So having a guy that's 330 and another guy that's 350 sitting there in a three technique and a two technique, you couldn't move them so you couldn't run the ball against this. So defensively, as a defensive back, you know, we had Chris McAllister and Dwayne Starks at corners and then the other safety was Corey and Kim Harris. So you know, they would rotate back and forth. But we didn't worry about the run game. Like I'm, if I'm in the core, yeah, I'm a part of the running game but if I ain't part of the running game, I don't need to come up because they nobody run the ball against this, right? I mean Sharon, we had five games. We didn't score a touchdown on all.
- [29:47]
Richard Sherman
Oh I, I, I, I saw it, I saw it. It was a stretch too.
- [29:50]
Rod Woodson
And we won three of, I mean so we, we could score. We knew how good we were. Like I, I knew when we played the New York Giants in the Super Bowl, I said man you do can't beat us man if they get across the 50 yard line. So, so the Giants beat Minnesota Vikings who were really good that year and they had some ballers. Like I was a little nervous going against Randy, Chris Carter and all them dudes. I mean they, they had some players over there on the Minnesota Vikings offense. I was a little nervous. Me and Ray, we up there Monday. So that, that first week we're looking at tape a half go by, we're looking at that Minnesota Giants game. We're like, we looked at each other and said man, if they get across the 50, we quit.
- [30:44]
Richard Sherman
We quit. We ain't good.
- [30:45]
Rod Woodson
We ain't, we ain't good. And they got across 51 time from a kip return. So we're like, we, we, we just had confidence in who we were. I mean like you guys with the Legion of Boom, you guys had swag, right? You, you knew you were good and you knew you like, I mean you guys are going to change courses of games, making big plays, knocking people. I remember man, what Was your safety. What was a strong safety?
- [31:11]
Richard Sherman
Cam Chancellor.
- [31:12]
Rod Woodson
Cam hit the tight end for the new year. Hit the tight end from San Francisco by the goal line.
- [31:19]
Richard Sherman
Yep.
- [31:21]
Rod Woodson
Man, he hit him. I felt it on tv. I like, dumb dude. He didn't want to go back. Like, if I'm him, I don't want to go back in.
- [31:32]
Richard Sherman
There were so many plays like that. And. And on that play, it was raining that day. I'll never forget, because they. They ran. We used to call it like an RNX beater. So condensed X split. He goes to run a pick route on the linebacker that's covering the tight end. And the tight end wheels around and runs to go.
- [31:50]
Rod Woodson
Yep.
- [31:51]
Richard Sherman
And so he took Crabtree. I'm covering Crabtree. And he picks off Malcolm Smith. And then Vernon goes up the sideline. But Cam read it quick. So Cam's in middle field safety. He's on course. And it was raining, and I somehow saw the sweat get knocked off that man's face. Forget the rain. Forget the water from the. I saw the sweat getting knocked off, and it was a legal hit. But the ref threw the flag, and I. And I. I said, ref, I see why you threw it. It was legal now, but I see why you threw it. I mean, I. I was ready to throw a flag, and I was on his team, man.
- [32:23]
Rod Woodson
I mean, that. That hit was one of the most vicious hits I seen. I don't. I don't think people even thought about it too often, but, man, as a player, when he hit him, I said, oh, bro, don't want. He ain't go. He don't want to play no more.
- [32:36]
Richard Sherman
He don't want to play. We played him in the NFC Championship game that year, and he ran a crosser. And people talk about the way Cam hit demarius Thomas in a championship, in a Super bowl, but he hit Vernon the same way in the NFC Championship. Vernon was running across her shallow cross, and we ran a robber, and they picked off the man covering me. He came down as the robber, and he. And didn't even. Vernon fumbled the ball. Cam didn't even look at it. He went to do it in celebration, and we were like, hey, Vernon does not want to play. He don't want to be out here with this man like. And to what you said, like, that was the year Denver broke all those records and Peyton had all those records, and he's throwing the ball all over the yard. And we watched the tape, and what we saw was they weren't running anything super complex. They were getting people Tired. And. And they were lining up fast. They were in a hurry up. And guys couldn't get their calls. They couldn't get their checks. And then it. They. They're running slant flat. They're running curl flat. They're running right drive. Basic, like, simple stuff like hitch seven. They're not running complicated offense. But when you're not lined up and you're confused and you're tired, fatigue will make cowards of us, all right? And so we just ran gassers. We ran gassers from. From the beginning of that week, because you got two weeks from the beginning of that week all the way to. Till we got to New York for the super bowl, we were running gas. We were like, hey, they're not running us off this field. That's one thing you're not going to do. Do we not. We're not. Y' all not running us off this field. Y' all have to beat us. And we run a super. We rarely huddle anyway, so it's not like y' all gonna catch us in between. We rarely go to the huddle. We. Look, we running what we running, and can y' all deal with it? Like, y'. All. Y' all not gonna be confused by what we doing. Y'.
- [34:14]
Rod Woodson
All.
- [34:14]
Richard Sherman
We're not gonna be confused by what y' all doing. Line it up. And I remember they were on like, a. Maybe a 12 or 13 play drive, and Demarius and Eric Decker tapped out of the game. And when I tell you, Rod, I called them everything in the book on their way to the sideline. I said, y' all in the Super Bowl. And y' all tapping out like this. Third down. Y' all bringing in these backups. Third down in the super bowl. And y' all down like, y' all not built to win this game. Y' all not built to beat us. Y' all know. Y' all know where y' all shouldn't even be out here with us. See, that's what I.
- [34:46]
Rod Woodson
That's. I mean, that's that, but that's. And it's. You know, people say, oh, that's arrogant, but it's not, because it's. It's a fine line between confidence and arrogant. And I'd say you walk that line like the great teams always walked it. Like.
- [35:02]
Richard Sherman
Right.
- [35:02]
Rod Woodson
Like, I wasn't a real talker, but all my boys were. And we always backed it up, though. Like, when I was in Pittsburgh, we had some freaking defenses in Pittsburgh. We blitzed everybody, right? And then when I got to Baltimore, we had that year in Baltimore, where we were, like, that was one of the best events, arguably, in the history of football.
- [35:20]
Richard Sherman
In the history of the game, right? So 10 points a game.
- [35:23]
Rod Woodson
And we. We. And we knew how good we were. And we talk. I mean, I didn't talk a whole bunch, but all my boys talked. All of them. All of them talk. And I was like, see? Hey, hey, y' all feel that? I mean, if you thought does that will get you going and that's what fires you up, then go for it, right? You know, and then depending the coaches let us do,
- [35:49]
Richard Sherman
because. And I would say our defense was a bunch of quiet. Like, Cam didn't talk a lot. Earl rarely talked. Bobby Wagner was on that team. Like, it didn't really talk that much. I was probably the. The loudest. But they were all like, hey, I'm with him now. Like, what. I'm with what he said. So if that's where y' all want to go with it, that's where we're going. Like, I'm not shying away from what he said. I just don't need to say it. But in 90, I want to talk about 95, because that was a crazy season for you. It was like you tore your acl, rehabbed all throughout the season, and then came back in the super bowl, like, what was it, 19 weeks or something like that?
- [36:31]
Rod Woodson
Yeah. So, I mean, it was the first game of the season going against Barry. The crazy thing is, man, I did some stupid stuff. Like, I. I would. So we played on the Astral. Old Astral turf, right? And normally when I play on the Astral turf, I would. I would break my shoes in my. My game. The shoes I was gonna wear that week, I would wear them throughout the week so they can, like, fit my feet. I didn't do that that week. That's the first. I didn't do it. It was so stupid. So it was overly hot. First game of the year, Barry Sanders, you know, I'm like this little dude right here, man. Like, we got. Everybody got to come and tackle him because he everywhere. So he breaks out on the right side. I plant, and, man, my foot got stuck. I try to turn, and, you know, normally my. If I wear the shoes I should have been, My foot would have turned with me that thing. I jumped up, felt the pop. The good thing is, man, Bill Cower was cool as all get out as a head coach, because Bill back then, Sherm. If I would have went on ir, I was done for the year, right? Wasn't coming out and so we met with the doc on Monday and doc said, hey, it's going to be eight. He said, it's going to be like eight to 10 weeks. Oh, like eight to 10 weeks, right. So I'm counting and he said it could be up to three months, four months, could it be up to six months? But I'm counting short this period of time, right. I'm like, okay, this is September, October, November, December, I can get back, right? I was like, coach, just give me a shot. And luckily, Colonel Lake don't get a lot of love, but Colonel Lake played outside linebacker at UCLA and came in, played strong safety, played our dime, played our nickel, moved a corner when I got hurt, plate balled out the whole year. Wow. I was blessed that nobody else got hurt that year because anybody else that got hurt in the secondary, he would have put me down. Yeah, I got an hour, you know, and so he gave me, he gave me that green light. He left the light at the end of the tunnel for me and I got to play in the super, my first super bowl. We didn't win, you know, because in, in three Super Bowls I played in and my quarterbacks threw eight interceptions. Oh, so you don't win a lot of Super Bowls that way. Right. But no, I at least got to play in it. And I still give Bill all the love because he gave me that opportunity to even try to come back, to motivate me to come back. So, you know, yeah, I heal fast normally, but Bill gave me the opportunity to get out there. I only played like 18 plays in the game, in the game because, you know, back then they weren't getting an 11 personnel a whole bunch. Right. Only went out there and sub package and that's the only time I got on the field.
- [39:31]
Richard Sherman
Think just talking about that, like, how, how different do you think you'd be in today's game? You know, where they. It's, it's so much different. And I love, I love the old school and I love all we were talking about before we got on on screen about Mel Blonde and, and Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes and just the guys who really fundamentally changed this game and yourself included. Included.
- [39:52]
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- [41:56]
Richard Sherman
but it's such a different game than you guys played because of the way they protect the quarterback. Like not to say they weren't protecting him back then, but back then you might have a quarterback half concussed in that game. Might have been clothesline two or three times in this game dropped on his head. In today's game, boy they kicking half the defense off the game if they if they land on him wrong, you know. So I just feel like their comfort level and they're that's why the accuracy numbers are through the roof and and passer rating is through the roof, because they don't. They're so, so afraid to make a mistake. They'd rather throw the ball out of bounds 15 times than throw interception. You know, I think back then quarterbacks was like, hey, whatever it takes to win, we're going to sling it around the yard and try to get a win. Now they're like, hey, if we don't win, cool, as long as I don't throw five interceptions.
- [42:42]
Rod Woodson
Yeah. I mean, I think a couple of things sharing with that, like, okay, first of all, you know, we sued the league to get free agency. So it started there, right? So we sued the league for free agency. And then the league was being very dishonest about CTE concussions, right? So they got a lawsuit with that. And so where we at today is because of those two things, right? When you or you sue your employer, what is going to happen where they're going to openly protect themselves in some capacity, right? So that's where the league is at because of the, you know, quarterbacks are protected in the pocket, out of the pocket. Receivers are protected over the middle of the field. They, I mean, they, you gotta, you gotta let them catch two feet, turn, and then you can hit them. Well, heck, it's too.
- [43:25]
Richard Sherman
Right.
- [43:25]
Rod Woodson
They already caught the ball. So, you know, so that's one. Secondly, man, you know, I know you watch ball. I mean, they're. The fundamentals are gone. The fundamentals in football across the board is gone. It's not the same game that we played when you talked about, you know, like, everybody plays with the butt to the sideline, right? But you could do it. Well, right? And you were. And you, you knew you could do it. All these guys can't do it, right? There's no, Nobody backpedals anymore. So it's the, the game is. It has changed. It's changed because we did have those lawsuits. But what makes me more disappointed, and I'm glad the guys are making money, and let me say that I'm glad they're making money, right? That generational wealth they can give to their kids and their, hopefully their kids and their next generation. I'm hoping they can keep doing that. But, man, like, where is the professionalism in the game? Like, where's the foundation built at the position? Like, I just don't see, like, you, you see good players come through and they might have two or three good years, but they ain't gonna have eight, nine, 10. They don't even want to play 10 years anymore, right? Get eight in, shoot, they got enough money for the rest of their lives in the next couple generations. So I, you know. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Like, thinking about, like, where the game is at, it's a little softer. And think about this.
- [45:03]
Richard Sherman
I don't know.
- [45:03]
Rod Woodson
When you first came in, how many. How long were you in training camp?
- [45:08]
Richard Sherman
About two weeks, two and a half.
- [45:10]
Rod Woodson
When I first came in, when we was five weeks.
- [45:13]
Richard Sherman
Right.
- [45:14]
Rod Woodson
Banging two days. And you're going through it and then probably the end of my career, because I played 17 at the end of my career, we. We were one on, one off. One on, one off. We were probably, you know, about 20 days in the training camp. So, I mean, now is what, 16 days, 17 days of training camp. You got what they got. How many times they could put on shoulder pads? What, 17 or something like 13.
- [45:39]
Richard Sherman
17 during the season? Yeah, something like that.
- [45:42]
Rod Woodson
So they don't really get to ever hit and tackle, but you still should be able to form. You just. We used to call it third up. Like, like, I'm gonna be in my sweats. But if the running back come out here, he getting his shoulder, right?
- [45:57]
Richard Sherman
Like, he gonna protect yourself.
- [45:59]
Rod Woodson
He's still getting it. And he. He better cover that ball up because we're gonna be poking. Right?
- [46:04]
Richard Sherman
So see, that's. That was a thing, I think we, We. We kept going is. Is we were hidden and, and we took so much pride as a defense because we had so many great players. I would think there's three or four hall of Famers on that defense. I mean, Bobby Wagner being, being the most obvious one. But like, we, we would tell Pete, don't run ones versus ones, because we're not going to let him move the ball.
- [46:28]
Rod Woodson
We're.
- [46:28]
Richard Sherman
We're hitting everything moving. And if you want. That's why we lost so many practices and all that in offseason, because he would, he would. In OTAs, you know how they say, hey, let him catch the ball? And like, we not built like that, Pete. We not letting nobody catch this ball. We not let. And if you going to show highlights and do all the things you do and try to hype this offense up, we're gonna break the necks to. To dislodge this ball. So if you want to avoid that, send us home. Send us, Send the defense home, and then you guys can run normal practices. But while you're out here doing it like this and you're trying to show us up, you're gonna get somebody hurt. And that's what would happen. We'd be on that off season and you got broken collarbones and broken arms and brokenness. And it's like, all right, you know what, Sharon.
- [47:07]
Rod Woodson
But you know what? You know what I hear from you, though? You guys took leadership in the locker room because it's your team. Yeah. I mean, right? Pete the head coach, but it's your team. Right. And that's how we felt. Like we felt. Yeah, listen, Chuck Nor was a coach, you know, Bill Cowell was a coach, but it's our team, it's our line. We're going to practice the way we need to practice to win. And if you don't like it, you know, Chuck would. Chuck was old school. So Chuck was like, she, hey, guys get hurt. He gonna. He gonna go 10 yards down the field and huddle up. It's like, it's. You know, then Bill was kind of the same way because Bill's had, you know, most defensive coaches are kind of old schoolish and it's some type of mindset. Right. So Bill was kind of like that. But once you go to the OTA 1s and OTA 2s and OTA 3s, I mean, you know, it puts you in a different mindset because you're always in the building. Because, you know, when I first came in, it wasn't. No, I mean, we had a whole bunch of our all season. I did all my own workouts, OTAs. Everybody's in the building every single day. They're working out, they're doing the little things. So it is a different game. But what I like about you, you remind me like we could have played together. And I can say that I don't say that lightly. Like, when I like, you got to be a baller to be able to play on that Steeler team or that Ravens team. Like, you got to have that. You got to have that mindset just like yours. Your Legion of Boom. You got to have a certain mindset to put to be a Legion of Boom. You can't come in there soft minded. You'll run them out. You'll run them out the field, like, make it. You ain't the part of the Legion of we knocked, right?
- [49:00]
Richard Sherman
You ain't built like that.
- [49:02]
Rod Woodson
No. So, I mean, so that's what I like about your. Your teams because we were so much alike. And when you start going from the different generations, every good defense all thought alike. When you talk to Mel Blunt and you talk about the Steel Curtain, you talk to me and Joe Green. Kame. Joe Green was our defensive line coach when I was there. That dude was mean. He like, we should watch the 8 millimeter film when I first came in the league and if the defensive line did something wrong go, he would throw that projector against the wall and you could hear it like. Cause you know, Tony, quiet Tony, his, our room is right next to the line room. Tony, he talking to us, but he ain't yelling. Joe, you can hear, man, it felt like, like AC units were hitting walls.
- [49:52]
Richard Sherman
Damn.
- [49:53]
Rod Woodson
Yes. This dude is crazy. I said if he was any as a coach, he was like that. I said as a player, I couldn't even imagine playing against a dude. But being in the locker room with him being a locker, he's going to hold everybody accountable. So I think all the great defenses over the generations all had a certain trait. And that one trait is, hey, we about that business.
- [50:18]
Richard Sherman
And it's a standard, and it's a standard you live up to every day. And I think that's the, the whenever I talk to people and I talk to young guys and, and people who want to be great defenses, I say like, there's an accountability that has to be there, that's inherent. That there's no disrespect that, that you got to disrespect anybody or, or any, anything like that. There's always love in it. It's always, hey, we have the same goal in mind. So when you're holding each other accountable, it ain't no MF this and you want. Because he's a grown men you're dealing with, you know, you can't play like that and expect, expect to get a good result. But men that desire the same thing and hold the same standard can accept accountability and coaching from one another. They can accept, hey, I need better from you right there. In order for us to get to where we're getting. You don't have to be like, hey, what are you doing on that play? It's like, hey, you just gotta look at him like, come on now. You know, we, hey, we better than that, huh? Come on, we at next play. I can't wait to see you on this next play because they got you messed up if they think that's about to happen again. Like, I know you better than that, right? And I think, think the, the standard that we held ourselves to every day. And I'll give Earl Thomas a lot of credit for his practice habits because he practiced like his hair was on fire every day. And so when you see that and it's jumping off on tape, you have to match it. There's no, there's no like hey, man, look at him. He's doing a great job. We, I hope he plays like this at game day. It's like, no, I'm like that too. Like I'm there too and I'm, I'm at the ball and we're punching at it, we're smacking at it. If he gets interception, I need to get too, like we're, and we're competing in that way within the scheme, within the confines of, of winning football. And when you do that, it, it just makes for a beautiful product and I appreciate it. Being able to play with those guys and, and having like minded people. And I'm sure you feel the same way with everybody in your building and, and the defenses you played on. When, when guys are tied in, going the same way, it's a, it's a tough thing to stop.
- [52:08]
Rod Woodson
It is. And I, not, like I said, man, I, I think there's so many different traits that carry over from generations, from every defense that when you start talking about these good defenses, everybody had the same mentality, the same mindset. But the one key is you policed yourself. I didn't need my coach to tell me, right. I policed my. And we police each other. Like we'd be like, hey, I mean, it's like sometimes you get into arguments with each other. That's what families do though, right? Family. Hey, sometimes you get on each other, but you love each other at the end of the day. And that's what, that's what I've always seemed to learn from listening to the, the, you know, the Purple People eaters, the Orange crush, the Steel curtain. You know, I guess we've, I guess we're called the bullies of Baltimore, right? You know, leads in a boom. All those good, great defenses over the course of time all have a certain trait. And that one trait is every time we come to work and we cross that white line, it's about work. We're going to play like, we're going to practice just like we want to play on a consistent basis. And that's what I mean, that's the reason I love watching you guys play because, man, you guys brought the wood you brought. I mean it was, watching you guys play was like, reminded me of our teams. And when I, when I give love to other defenses, it's not, no, it's not tongue in cheek. It's like true respect because you don't see it that often. It comes right once in every 10 or so years, those type of defenses and in, in the different, different generations but, man, the way you guys played, man, it was fun to watch some dudes, man.
- [53:56]
Richard Sherman
I appreciate that. I appreciate that now. And that's why I get. I get so frustrated with this man versus zone debate with people. Are they like, oh, this corner played all, man. He was better. It's like, first off, not anybody in the league that's playing straight, man, in. In this day and age, there's not nobody. Because. And it's not because they can't. It's because the rest of the defense can. There's like, there may be individual corners that can play, man, 90 of the time and be fine, but can your linebackers play, man, all the time? Can the safeties play, man, all the time? Because if they can't, then that's not good defense and nobody's going to put them in those positions to figure it out. And so, you know, that's one of the frustrating things because everybody like, oh, you were one of the best zone corners. Like, no, I was just one of the best corners. Like, I played it all. I played whatever they called on the play and I made it work. And I wanted to hear your thoughts on that.
- [54:44]
Rod Woodson
Yeah, I think, because. So remember when we first started talking, you said, listen, I'm three and cover three. If I'm the X db, I'm playing. I'm on the X side, right? I'm playing man. It's a man. I'm up and outside. I'm mad. Now. If he runs shallow cross, I ain't chasing him, right? I'm calling. But he's going to be reduced split if he's going to run shallow cross, right? Or he's going to be, you know, that's the only way he can get to it. So to me, you know, having those arguments about zone, like, you know, when people say zone, I said, listen, great defensive backs can do it all. I can plays if, like, I didn't play 100% man to man, I played man zone. I did it my way. The great players can do both and the great defense can do both. It's hard to just to say, okay, we're all zone. Well, you're going to be all cover too, and display cover two all day. You can't do that. So I don't think people, when people make that statement, I don't think they understand football because I don't either. There's versions, even though you're inside of. Even though you might. It might be a zone call, you got a concept of man somewhere on that zone call. Unless it's a condensed split. If it's condensed split, then we're probably playing the true zone. Right. Because we're backing up a little bit. We're going to let everything unfold and then we're going to match it. Right, Right. But that's. That's. Other than that, there's always a version of playing the zone or playing man inside of each one of their defense. Each defense. So, you know, and when you get
- [56:29]
Richard Sherman
to third down saying what that is,
- [56:31]
Rod Woodson
what I'm a fan of is ballers. Can you book? Can you play ball? Can you play? Can you make play? And what I really like is like making plays on the ball. Like, when the ball goes up, that's my ball. I think the receiver ball. That's my. My mindset was always like that interception, first pbu, second tackle. If he catch it. That's how I thought.
- [56:56]
Richard Sherman
Me too.
- [56:57]
Rod Woodson
Right. Like in the great. To me, when you talk to the great deep Mel Blunt, that was the same way. Lynn Birney, the same way. Dick LeBeau, the same way. All the great defensive backs have that mindset where that ball mine, man, when it goes in the air. I got the same right to the ball as a receiver. I can't climb on his back and all that stuff. I get it. But I still got the same right. So what we used to teach was, hey, Tony used to teach us if you make contact with the receiver the same time the ball get there, that is not pass interference. And I was like, really? So we used to do a drill on the big dump tackling dummy where he throws a ball right on the outside edge. And we used to come up with our shoulder pad and going through the ball.
- [57:47]
Richard Sherman
Right.
- [57:47]
Rod Woodson
And so because it gets used to the contact, because normally DBs drop the ball when they're making contact with the receiver and trying to catch the ball at the same time. We used to do that drill over and over and over.
- [57:59]
Richard Sherman
We did, too.
- [58:00]
Rod Woodson
You did the drill? I mean, I love it.
- [58:02]
Richard Sherman
Yes, sir.
- [58:03]
Rod Woodson
I don't ever see anybody do that drill anymore.
- [58:06]
Richard Sherman
Yeah. Chris Richard. Chris Richard had us do it all the time. And it would. It would be the. The point of contact drill or point of whatever. The point of contact. Whatever they called it. Point of attack.
- [58:16]
Rod Woodson
Yeah.
- [58:17]
Richard Sherman
And either you go for the PBU or you go for a pick, depending on the time you make it.
- [58:22]
Rod Woodson
Right.
- [58:22]
Richard Sherman
But go for the pick until you can.
- [58:25]
Rod Woodson
Right? Yeah. I mean, so I see that to me, is that's how you get good. Really. DBs who can make the contact still get interceptions. Most DS get PBs and they'd be talking about people. Listen, I love PBs, but I say game changers get picks, right? Like when the ball touched your hand. You got to be
- [58:50]
Richard Sherman
so in today's game, what DB has you like?
- [58:54]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [59:25]
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- [60:26]
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- [60:57]
Richard Sherman
has you enthralled and infatuated with his game and how he's playing a position with the way you think about it.
- [61:04]
Rod Woodson
I like, obviously I like sir Tan. Like, I mean long, can run, can make plays.
- [61:11]
Richard Sherman
I mean he pedals too.
- [61:13]
Rod Woodson
I like woolen. You know, with Seattle, I like Gonzalez, I like Mitchell, I like Stingley, Donnie, Houston. There's a lot of players that I individually like, but the defense, like Mike, Mike brought that like that dog tube back to Seattle. But watching the Houston Texan defense, like them dudes, them dudes remind me of you guys because they were knocking cats out. I was like, man, this is, this is legion of boom 2.0 because they hitting everybody moving. I mean, and so, I mean, I like watching those type of games where defenses are flying to the ball and laying cats out and if they get a flag, they get a flag. Like so that's not going to detour me that I'm going to play fast, you know, but so I got a group of players that I really like to watch. But I really like to watch complete defenses, like dismantle offenses because it's a little harder to do in today's game because everybody is overly protected on offense. Right. So it's harder for the dbs to do that. And then they just got to figure out how the refs are calling the game that day and how they going to play inside of the game.
- [62:33]
Richard Sherman
Right. And that's, that's the hard part because it's so subjective in this, this day and age. But if you were building a perfect modern day db, what are three traits that are non negotiable?
- [62:44]
Rod Woodson
Oh, three traits are non negotiable. Toughness. I guess grit is kind of like toughness. So. So toughness, nonmetocial. Toughness, short. I can't. That's a great question.
- [63:19]
Richard Sherman
You can, you can encompass anything. You can encompass the football iq, ball skills, speed, athleticism.
- [63:26]
Rod Woodson
So the toughness, the football not playing in a box, sir, like if, if that makes sense. I know it's not a, that's not a one word or one trait, but a lot of times we live in this box and the defense tells us, this is xyz, this is, you know, you, you got your one third corner, you got two to one at two displays, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And we live in that. Right? The great ones don't live in there.
- [63:59]
Richard Sherman
You're right.
- [64:00]
Rod Woodson
Right. And so you try to find those guys who understand football, but at the end of the day, football is A simple game. Just not easy to play at a high level on a consistent basis. Right. If you go back to. And I'm answered, I'll give you. I'll give you the third treatment once I make a statement. But go back to Pop Warner. When we play Pop Warner football, the football goes to the right side. Every player's over on the right side with the ball. And as we grow, especially defensively, you're going to. Your coaches are going to say, I need you in the middle of the field or your defensive end, you can't fold early. You can't do this, you can't do that. I need you here, I need you there. I need this. And we get some. The most of the players, 90% of those players are going to get locked into saying, if I have to do this, because my coach is telling me to do this. But the real good ones, Sherm got a filter in their head. I remember Rob Russ Guy told me, he said, hey, listen, coaches are going to say a lot of different things to you. Listen to him, look at him, smile at him. And in your head, if you want to say shut the F up, say it in your head, but don't say it to the coach. And he said, but always smile at him. So. All right, man. Anytime the coach will say something that I really didn't agree with, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I got you. I got you. In my head, though, I'm like, f that. Like, I'm going out to. So to me is like trying to find that guy that. That can play outside the box and make plays for you. That's. Is. That's. That's one of the things you're always looking for. And then I think thirdly, ball skills, because the balls matter. I mean, getting the football for your team matters. So PBS are great, but, man, getting interceptions changes the dynamic of a football game because this, it can. If you don't score, it shortens the field for your offense with the probability of them scoring increases.
- [66:06]
Richard Sherman
Right.
- [66:06]
Rod Woodson
And then.
- [66:07]
Richard Sherman
And that's the part I think that's going away from playing DB in the league, at least corner. Like they're not taking the ball away at the level that it used to be taken away.
- [66:14]
Rod Woodson
Well, they take bad angles. I mean, it's. If you. If you really watch it, if I'm really being honest, when I'm watching games week in and week out, because, you know, I call the game for the Ravens and I'm watching the games, I really get frustrated of guys not knowing how to play like, don't you see your angle? Do you not see where you're at? Do you not know, like your split rules? Do you not. Like, you don't see that? And then in their heads and then obviously they don't because they do it over and over and over. But the problem is, Sherm, if you think about it, there's a lot of young coaches out there. Not saying that they're bad coaches, right. I'm saying they're still good. But I learned from all my OGs. There are older coaches that been through the rigors, that been through it, and they taught me all the nuggets that they learned over the course of their time frame. Like being a human being, a 30 year old rod and a 60 year old rod. I'm way wiser at 60 than I was at 30. Right. That's what we get. And I think that's what happens in football. That's what's happening in football because we've gone so young in coaches, but we're young in the league too, right? So, you know, starters are. If you're a first rounder, a second rounder, I mean, you're starting, you're playing, you're getting a lot of reps and heck, I know. I mean, when I came in the league, man, I was, I was getting bombed over Baghdad. I mean, I was getting got.
- [67:39]
Richard Sherman
You can't, you can't get got these days.
- [67:42]
Rod Woodson
I was learning, but I was still getting got. And it took me a little while to keep going. I mean, if I was in the league today, they'd be like, oh, that dude's a bust. That part, he's a bust. Because we don't give these kids, like I always say, you gotta give them three years. The third year should be the year. You should see glimpses and flashes. The first two, that third year should be that. And some, some guys, you can see it in the second year. Right, Right. I think you should, we should give kids at least three years to like, try to get through this whole thing and to, to learn the game. But also, hopefully the coaches learn more and they can give it to the players, you know? You know, my biggest thing with the really good players are that, man, this don't live in the box, bro. Like, when you talk to Troy Palomalu, you talk to Ed Reed, they didn't live in no box.
- [68:40]
Richard Sherman
They didn't live in no box.
- [68:41]
Rod Woodson
I remember, I was. Shoot, we were playing C. Oh, we playing the Raiders. When I was with the Ravens, we covered three Tim Brown runs a Shallow cross. And I'm cover three. Now I'm supposed to take the shallow cross. Rich Gannon, like this, though, I took off, and by the time I got to the other side of the numbers, he hit me in the chest with the ball. Touchdown. It was like a 20 yard touchdown. I come to the sideline and Marvin was like, you can't jump that. I said, coach, he was looking at him. He was looking at him. I was like, hey, so, you know, to me, getting those players who still know how to play and are willing to play inside of their system, those are the guys, are those generational players, like players like you who can make plays, like the Legion of Boom. The guys who. Who play with you who can make plays. Those are the type of players you're trying to find. And they're hard to find.
- [69:44]
Richard Sherman
Yeah, they're really hard to find. Because that's a sensitive balance. Because, like, like, that's why people don't understand. They're like, you guys were just playing cover three. It's like, you don't understand how many times we broke that to. To. To create interceptions. Like, hey, it's cover three. But hey, two. Two and three are vertical. Is three by one, twos vertical?
- [70:02]
Rod Woodson
The.
- [70:03]
Richard Sherman
The over route took the safety. The safety bit on that. Two's wide open. I leave one wide open to go pick the. The seam of two. Not because that's the way it's written. Because the way it's written, the safety probably should have been lean in there and then, you know, force the ball somewhere else. But that's not how it always happens on the field. And to be able to see it and react to. To it in real time and correct the mistake and create a turnover in a position where it would have usually been a touchdown because of mistakes, that's what difference makers do. And I want to ask you about something else before I. Because I want to take your whole day up. What do you think of this whole Max Crosby thing? Like, he was a Baltimore Raven for, like, five seconds now.
- [70:38]
Rod Woodson
Trey and I did a podcast talking about what the Ravens got, you know, and how good he can be with the Ravens if Nandi Madabike comes back. And I'm like, that. I was blown away because I didn't see the news. And then I got a text from one of my dudes and like, max failed a physical. I'm like, what? I'm like, I was like, well, that's crazy. I mean, it just. I mean, very unfortunate for the Ravens and for Max, because I think Max Wanted to have a kind of refreshing moment to go somewhere else and play football. So that, that's, you know, I know it's frustrating for him, unfortunately. Hopefully he finds he gets healthy again. Whatever it might have been, whatever his body's going through, he gets healthy again. Just unfortunate that the Ravens didn't get him, because if the Ravens would have got him, and I don't know where Namdi Matabike's at with his recovery from what, his neck injury and if he came back, oh, man, that defense would have been crazy.
- [71:39]
Richard Sherman
Did you. Did you hear what happened?
- [71:41]
Rod Woodson
No.
- [71:42]
Richard Sherman
They picked up Trey Hendrickson.
- [71:44]
Rod Woodson
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I saw Trey. I saw Trey.
- [71:46]
Richard Sherman
So. So trade. And had. He's had 10 more sex than Max over since 2019. So I think that's. But they had to keep those picks. That was when they lost Lindenbaum and they lost likely and they lost all these people. I think that's what. What cost him. I. I think they. They had a. They could have went either way with Max Crosby. I mean, they knew what he was. They knew where he was in his recovery, coming back regardless. Like, they had already talked to Ella trash. You didn't need to bring him in to see it. But I think once free agency started to go and they started to see that, hey, Trey Hendrickson's market is going to be what it is, and we could potentially get him and then keep our picks.
- [72:24]
Rod Woodson
Oh, you think they. You think they were.
- [72:26]
Richard Sherman
That's.
- [72:26]
Rod Woodson
They saw it.
- [72:27]
Richard Sherman
That's what people are saying.
- [72:29]
Rod Woodson
Oh, you know, because this is what I said. This is what I said when I thought the deal was going through. What? They're going to get Max because I said the only way it makes sense to get Max if Nami Matabiki is coming back, but Anami is not coming back. You need a D tackle. You're going to need a center. You're going to need another tight end, you need another receiver. Right. You're going to need you. I mean, the interior, defensive front, rushing wise, rush wise was lacking last year, so I was a little surprised about that. Unfortunate. But I. That's a. That's an interesting way of looking at it, though. Like, if they. If they saw how it was unfolding. Because my thing is giving up those pigs. Because you need them.
- [73:22]
Richard Sherman
You need them.
- [73:23]
Rod Woodson
You need those pigs. The only way you give him up is that Namby is coming back. But if Namby was. Or he's still question marked, you still need. You still need office alignment. Right? I mean, Lindenbaum, he was the Anchor of the center outside here. I mean, Ronnie Stanley, I get that. But, you know, Lindenbaum was a baller, likely leaves, you know, so, I mean, it's, it would be. That's, that's an interesting take because I saw that and, But I never thought about it like that.
- [73:53]
Richard Sherman
Yeah, that's, that's the way it's being perceived, and that's the way my brain is seeing it is saying, hey, we could get him. We could get a comparable player. I think they think Trey Henderson, a guy who's been in their division, who, who has been very productive, great player, comparable to Max Crosby, you can, you know, argue with somebody else about who's more valuable. But I think it's, it's close enough that they say, hey, we keep multiple first round picks that we can use to strengthen our team and get us the same player without losing the picks like that. That's a, that's a home run. And all we got to do is, is have a little bit of a black eye in the public for a second. Like, we gotta, we gotta deal with a little bit of turmoil that, hey, we backed out of a deal and our word isn't as good as it used to be.
- [74:33]
Rod Woodson
Right? Yeah, because, I mean, they live with that. I was, I was shocked that this Ravens are gonna give up two picks because it's not what they do, right? That's not who they are. So I was shocked about that. Then I was like, okay, Crosby, I get it. Dude's a baller. He got that dog in him. He can be a closer. Because if you look at the last several years, they've lost a lot of games in the fourth quarter where they didn't make plays for him. So I kind of get it. But if Namby's not coming back now, that's a head scratcher move for me. But I kind of like what you're saying. If they saw how everything was unfolding in the free agency market, and Trey, yes, Trey is inside of this, inside the division already. They know what they're getting. Because the one thing that lacked from the Ravens last year was pass rush. Consistently, right? I mean, didn't have it consistently. Now they got Green, Mike Green, who I think is going to be a really good player. But then if you bring, you bring Henderson in, and I was thinking, like, you bring Crosby in, you got Nam Day, you got another couple of young guys on the other side, even Van Noy, then you got some players and your defense solid again, right? But I, I, I, oh, I like that. I like that. But, you know, one thing I like at the end of the day, they keep their picks.
- [75:54]
Richard Sherman
They keep their picks, and they. And they need them this year, and they need them to be competitive. All right, well, I appreciate you, Rod. This meant a lot to me, man. This was a great conversation. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I appreciate you joining me. I don't want to take up the rest of your day. I think we could talk for hours about football. Hey, I tell you what, man.
- [76:14]
Rod Woodson
Anytime, bro. Anytime. I got much respect for you, bro. I love what you do. I love. I love you on tv. I love your takes on tv. Anytime you want me on your show, bro, you hit me up, I'm on.
- [76:27]
Richard Sherman
I appreciate that, dude. We definitely gonna hit you up. Cause I love to do it. We could talk ball all day. I want to do this again.
- [76:32]
Rod Woodson
The one thing I tell my. You know, and I tell my wife all the time, I said I know a little bit about a lot, but I know a lot about football.
- [76:41]
Richard Sherman
Know a lot you. And you're a brilliant football mind, and I love to. To hear your thoughts about it. So we got to do this again. No question about that.
- [76:48]
Rod Woodson
Yeah. Most love for you, brother, as always.
- [76:51]
Richard Sherman
You guys could be anywhere in the world, but you're here with us. We had an incredible guest and we're going to have incredible guests all season long. So stay tuned. Hit that sub button. If you knew. Appreciate you.
- [77:02]
Rod Woodson
Foreign.
- [77:11]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Goldfish, Keebler, Doritos, all M M's, Drumstick, Outshine and Kellogg's. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy SA savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.
- [77:42]
Julian Edelman
This is Julian Edelman from Games with Names. I want to take a second to talk about something that's personal to me. I've had the privilege of working closely with Robert Kraft for a long time. And one thing I've always respected is how seriously he takes up standing up to hate. As a Jewish athlete, my identity is something I am proud of. But I also know what it feels like to be singled out for it. That's why this new commercial for the Blue Square alliance against hate that aired during the big game really hit home. It's about showing up for someone when they're targeted, even if you don't have the perfect words. And sometimes standing next to someone is enough. And you can show support by sharing the blue square.
- [78:27]
Orderly Meds Advertiser
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- [78:58]
Verizon Advertiser
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- [79:28]
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