← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Sharp or Square - NBA FINALS BETTING UPDATE: New York Knicks vs. San Antonio Spurs
00:41:57
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- [00:00]
Jonas Brothers
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Fernanda Echadri
Guaranteed Human.
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IBM Narrator
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Simon Hunter
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Chad Millman
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Jason Timf
trademarks use under license and reprinted with permission.
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Podcast Promo Voice
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Jonas Brothers
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Jason Timf
And don't even get me started on the sticky sprays.
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- [02:06]
Chad Millman
Welcome to Sharper Square presented by Hard Rock Bat. We are part of the Voluum Podcast network. This is the show that makes the square sharper. Makes the wise guys pay attention. I am Chad Millman. I am joined as always by my co host, my bff, my companion, my compadre professional better Simon Hunter. Hello Simon.
- [02:30]
Jason Timf
Chad.
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Simon Hunter
So much going on. Where do we start, brother?
- [02:33]
Chad Millman
Dude, it's going to be a rough week for me because you Know I go to bed at 9 o', clock. So no joke. Last night from 7 to 8 I was reading a book. Just before that I got a little sleepy. I took a nap from like 7 to 8 so I could stay up for the entirety of the Spurs Knicks game. And it was worth every second because the game was freaking awesome. I'm pumped that we're going to have Jason. Come on, Jason. Tim from hoops tonight. Come on today to talk about it. But dude, great game. Great fucking game. These guys are ridiculous. Jalen Brunson, what he can do as a 6 something guard in comparison to Wemby as a 74 athlete is. Tell me you watched it. Tell me you loved it.
- [03:29]
Simon Hunter
I did. I honest, I won't lie. I was watching the Phillies to start though. So I call it the second half. I haven't mentioned his name because I don't want to be the guy that drinks it. But I'm sure you know Christopher Sanchez, this Phillies pitcher.
- [03:41]
Chad Millman
Yeah, yeah, dude.
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Simon Hunter
Pretty, pretty insane run. I didn't want to. People were asking why I didn't bring it up and it's like I am so superstitious. It's over now. He gave up a run last night, but he basically said MLB record for most innings without giving up a run. Didn't give up a run the entire month of May. So yeah, I was watching that, that finish switched over and watched that insane comeback by that next demon. Yeah, it's as fun as it was watching the finals. I really can't wait for it to get back to Madison Square Garden. Like I really can't like the fans. I get it. San Antonio, it's the rich people buying the seats, right? It's just gonna be a different atmosphere. But I just felt like they, they were gone by midway through the third quarter. There was just nothing from the fans. They didn't will that team at all. And yeah, props to the Knicks, right? The game they had to go steal, they wouldn't stole. So yeah, I can't wait to go break this game down and just the rest of the series. It's going to be a really good one.
- [04:37]
Chad Millman
Nick's Knicks win by 10. 10595 Score does not show how close the game was. We're going to bring in Jason Timf. We're going to talk all things betting in the NBA finals with our volume podcast brother. He is the hardest working man in basketball media. He's going to go on with our, our buddy Cowherd today from hoops tonight, Jason Timf. How are you, buddy.
- [05:03]
Jason Timf
What's up guys? It's good to see you. I am sorry that we had to reschedule on Tuesday. I got my absolute butt kicked by an illness from. Back on my feet now. And honestly, like, I think this series is a win for basketball fans. We. I think this is between the Knicks, obviously being a super interesting storyline and Victor women Yama and everything he brings to the table. And I, I think either team winning is profoundly interesting. And there's so many storylines on the, on the inside of the lines like you talked about, Chad, involving like this weird dynamic between this six foot tall, unbelievable clutch scoring force versus this alien seven and a half feet tall. Just do a little bit of everything, monster. It's just a very interesting series and I thought last night's game was super entertaining. And you mentioned Simon. The, the, the. The Knicks fans traveled really well to San Antonio. Every time they made a play, I'm like, oh man. Like there's a pretty hefty. That was by far the biggest road presence of any spurs game this year.
- [06:09]
Chad Millman
I love this Knicks team. I find them so likable. But I hate the Knicks. I mean, I truly. It's weird to me.
- [06:17]
Simon Hunter
You gotta think of him as Villanova. Just think of him as Villanova. Honestly, that's what I'm doing, John. I'm Linux. I'm like, well, this is Villanova, dude.
- [06:24]
Chad Millman
I'm not gonna. I'm having a really hard time with it. And I don't feel this kind of visceral hate for really any other teams. Like, I should hate the Cardinals as much as I, as much as I hate the Knicks, I should hate the packers and as much as I hate the Knicks, but I hate the Knicks. And I don't know if it's like James Dolan is such a douchebag and I don't want this guy to be rewarded. I don't know if it's like I find Knicks fans. It's the fans insufferable.
- [06:53]
Simon Hunter
It's the fan.
- [06:54]
Chad Millman
What's like last night I'm in bed watching the end of the game and my wife, who's a New Yorker, is like cheering them on. And I've got a text chain with all my other buddies who are specifically from New York, from Staten island, who grew up with my wife, who are all dudes and all very good friends of mine and they are going crazy. And I have been fighting with these guys about the Knicks and the bulls since the 90s and they're getting their chance now. And I'm I'm. I'm not even happy for them, like. But msg. I've said this before on the show, Jason, when MSG and those fans are cheering defense, it is the most electric feeling in sports, and I gotta give him props for that because it is. It is really, really wonderful and that it's such a New York thing to chant defense. And the Knicks are a city team. I admire the fans for that, but outside the stadium, I can't stand them.
- [07:52]
Jason Timf
I've seen teams pump in the fake defense chant, too, and you didn't need it there on the broadcaster, like, what are you guys doing? That just doesn't work for me. But, yeah, there's a. There's an electricity in that building that really has been there, I think, on and off over each of the last three playoff runs. But it's just reaching a crescendo under the circumstances. Like, I. I picked the Knicks to win this series beforehand. I. I think they match up extremely well with San Antonio for some of the reasons that we'll dig into. But, like, this was the path that was there the whole time, which was if you can somehow get out of the Eastern Conference, and if San Antonio is the team that happens to be waiting for you, if you get there, you have a great chance to win the title because, like, you know, the. The Knicks are. It's. It's super fascinating because they've been super dominant. Like, I think last night was what, their 12th consecutive playoff win. They've won by double figures in the vast majority of those games. Last night was double figures, too, although I think that's a little misleading because that the spurs had a lead with just a couple minutes left. It was more of just the way that the game went off the rails late. But, like, they've dominated their way through this stretch. But a big part of it has been like a com. It's been like a combination of. Not only are the Knicks playing extremely well, Brunson's playing amazing, Cat's playing amazing. Mike Brown has gotten more out of this team's bench than they've gotten out of the bench in any of the recent seasons. All those things are true, but you also have, like, some favorability in the way that the matchups have kind of broken down with them getting a seven seed after beating the six seed, and then getting that Cavs team that effectively quit after losing game one of the Eastern Conference finals, and then getting a team in San Antonio which matches up really well for them. But, like, every team that's ever won the Title has gotten some luck along the way, whether it be through matchups, whether it be through injuries. Like, that's just part of the deal. The Thunder last year got lucky with injuries on their way to the title. So did the Celtics the year before. Like, it's just part of basketball. And, you know, I, I, I. The big, the big thing is they're just extremely likable. Like, they're just an extremely likable brand of basketball on both ends of the floor. And even the storylines, like, this Cat storyline, Like, can you imagine if Cat got a Finals mvp? Like, what that would look like, you know, just a few years after the, his mother passed away. Like, it just is rife with a bunch of, like, people you really want to root for.
- [10:10]
Chad Millman
I'm such a bad person. You just mentioned Cat's mother. It just reminded me that after the Knicks beat Cleveland, a good friend of mine who's from New York and is a massive Knicks fan, and his sister, who I'm also good friends with, they were moving their mom, their, their mom into assisted living from the house she had lived in for a long time. And I texted them, like, you know, good luck today. You know, sending you guys lots of love. Thinking about you guys. I know it's a hard day. And they sent back, you know, just updates of what was happening and thank you for thinking of us and all this kind of stuff. And then in, at the end, I couldn't let it go. Instead of being like, you know, let me know how it goes. And, and I just wrote back, by the way, fuck the Knicks. That, like, that's my state of mind on the Knicks. Even though you're right, they're so freaking likable. I think if Cat. I think if Kat and Brunson win this title, they've, they've secured a path to the hall of Fame. We're not going to get ahead of ourselves. I only say that because I was at the NBA, the, the cup, when the spurs played the Knicks, and I was sitting with a buddy, and we were, I was saying, like, how many? When, when Brunson and Cat and Wembanyama were on the floor, I said, how many hall of Famers do you think are on the floor right now? And he was trying to convince me that Katt and Brunson should be it. I wasn't buying it, but I think if they do get to the, that they win this finals, they'll get there. Last night, spurs are up by 13 in the middle of third quarter. They fade late, lose by 10 Jason and Simon, like, from a betting perspective, from a basketball perspective, Jason will start with you. Basketball, like, what is your biggest game? One takeaway. Because when we talked about Thunder and Spurs, you were pretty optimistic about the spurs and I was less optimistic. And so I was actually thinking about this last night, knowing you were coming on today.
- [12:07]
Jason Timf
Yeah, I, I, if the Thunder would have made the finals, I would have picked the Thunder. And the main reason why is the Thunder are a speed team and the Knicks are more of a power team. And I think they match up better in that sense, whereas the spurs are a power team and the Knicks have the power players to cancel out that advantage. The primary difference is Dylan Harper and Steph Castle consistently were able to get two feet in the paint whenever they wanted to against that Thunder defense because they're constantly going against these like, kind of smaller guards. And on the other end of the floor, there was no ability for the Thunder to punish those spurs perimeter players. In fact, that was kind of the story of the series is Shea looked a little physically overwhelmed by those guys throughout. And what makes this matchup so fascinating is Carl Anthony Towns is both a good matchup for Wemby in the sense that he can guard him like we saw last night. He can win the battle on the ground. He's quick enough to beat him to spots and physically strong enough with a low enough center of gravity to kind of push him off of any sort of driving lane and keep him from getting any deep post position or deep paint touch, if that makes sense. But the flip side of it is on the other end of the floor, there's not a single guy in the spurs rotation that can guard cat other than Wemby. Like, all of those guards and wings that they play are given up 4 or 5 inches, 40, 50 pounds, every single one of them. And then if you put Wemby on him, one of two things goes wrong. Either, you know, Wemby, for all the credit he deserves for being legitimately the best defensive player in the league, he's actually not a fundamentally sound defender. He is getting by purely off of raw talent right now, I'd argue, even on offense, which is crazy because the dude's the best player in the world and he's just getting by on raw talent as a 22 year old right now. Wait till he starts to pull, polish some of these things up and add some more refined process. But he was terrible against ISOs all year. This is this like wimy for being literally the best defender in the league. He was one of the worst isolation defenders in the league. The reason why is he always overplays the three point shot. He gets super aggressive forward, and then dudes drive right around him. And he had a really hard time with Cat last night, like, picking them up 25ft from the basket with all this intense ball pressure, and it's like, what are you doing? Chill out. All Cat has to do is just low rip through and he's right around you, and he's getting to the basket for a layup. And so I still think ultimately the best pathway for the spurs is for Wemby to guard Cat. But he's going to have to make some tactical adjustments there, give him a little bit more space, use your length to contest rather than trying to smother him 25ft from the basket. But Cat is really the breaking point from a matchup standpoint because Wemby doesn't even really guard him well. But if you take Wemby off of him and put him on Josh Hart, Cat just feasts on these smaller guards. He had all those offensive rebound putbacks and, like, easy drives in other stretches of the game. And then on the other end of the floor, he's appropriately guarding Wemby and playing him into arguably his worst offensive game of this postseason. So, like, they have a great matchup for Wemby and Cat. Jalen Brunson, all you have to do is get the game close late. Yeah, he was not efficient. He had 31 shots for his 30 points. He Honestly, most of the points he did have came in transition, too. It's not like Brunson was getting good looks for himself, but he just made a few big plays late in the game. It's that big jump shot over Devin Vassell draws the double team that gets the foul from Mikhail Bridges, has the three off of the offensive rebound in the right corner. He just made a handful of big plays. But Kat, to me, is like. And for a. From a betting standpoint, I'm wondering if you're seeing this too, Simon. Like, I don't know what the line is for Cat. Finals mvp, but I. I would be. I would be looking at that as a potential value opportunity here, because I think he really is the guy that breaks the spurs on both ends of the floor.
- [15:56]
Simon Hunter
Yeah, I was gonna say the first thing that jumped out to me is just the NBA. I feel like it's my biggest lesson from the Jordan era is just the NBA. You have to earn it. You don't get it early. Right. It just. It feels like Wimby might be hitting that thing, which I thought he was going to against okc, which is like, okay, it's not your time yet. And that's what the first thing that jumped out to me this game is. They just feel so young. They're relying on so many young players on San Antonio, where the Knicks have guys who've been on multiple teams, the guys who have been at the lowest points of their careers. Right. Like, literally, teams gave up on plenty of these guys and moved along. I mean, every time you say cat, I will always think of the Jimmy Butler story. For the rest of my life, I will think of Jimmy Butler, making him feel less than a man, because it's, that's what the NBA is, right? It's grown men that are there to humble you. And that's what that game felt like. Where the Knicks looked rested, the spurs looked like a team that went to a Game seven. You could say, well, they had a couple days off. Yeah. Emotionally taxing, what they did to that body, that series. To me, that's why that 10 points ended that fourth quarter. That was a big deal. The fact that they won by over 10 points just shows. Yeah, it was a little wonky at the end there. Like, Brunson was hitting shots the spurs weren't. But at the same time, it was the energy level, like this, them stealing the ball, the mental mistakes the spurs are making. So, yeah, that jumped out to me right away, where it's like watching that second quarter, obviously, I didn't see the first hat the whole first half. I saw the second quarter. It's like, okay, the spurs looked in control. The third quarter looked totally different. They looked like they were behind. And the Knicks looked like they already made adjustments in game that they were taking advantage of. So I, I, that's what I love about basketball. It's these little adjustments where you have five guys on the floor, but that's what these guys get paid all this money for. They find your weakness and they're going to exploit it, whatever their strength is of this matchup. And you know, that's. We're all on the same page, right? The spurs are nowhere near dead yet. Right. There's still a ton left to play. I think most of us agree this feels like it's going to go six or seven. Like, Wimby played terrible. They still almost won that game. So I, I really am excited about this series, and I'm, I'm kind of torn here. It feels like the value probably shifted at this point to the Spurs. Right. Everyone's going to overreact to that first game. I'm always looking for the value. So yeah, I'm really tempted tonight or tomorrow night to take the Spurs. Just, just you expect them to bounce back in the Knicks to have a letdown game. It's just so hard to win back to back on the road, let alone a team like the Spurs. We've seen, they take, they take Wimby's personality, they become crazy. Like there's a team that was down three two, the OKC and they came back against the champ. So I'm so excited for this series. I think it's going to be great.
- [18:28]
Chad Millman
One thing I want to say, Jason, before you, before you dip in there, you had asked about CARL Anthony Towns, MVP. He was 20 to 1. Now he is 12 to 1. Hard rock that actually has the best price in the market at him to win MVP in terms of making your money back. Let's do a quick word from Hard Rock because Simon, you make up a great point about is there value now on the Spurs? And I want to transition to what we learned from last night into the upcoming games. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bat Florida's sportsbook. The NBA Finals are here, the lights are brighter, the pressure is higher, and every possession can define a legacy. Despite my feelings about New York fans, I could not be more excited about this matchup. Will New York and its title drop route, will San Antonio hang another championship banner? However you see it playing out, head over to Hard Rock Bet and turn your picks into a payday. The season is almost over, so shoot your shot while you can and same game parlays let you stack your picks for an even bigger payout. Try your first bet on Hard Rock Bet today and you can score $150 in bonus bets. If you win, just place a $5 bet and if it hits you, you get not only your winnings but also an extra $150 in bonus bets. But the welcome offer is just the tip. Hard Rock Bet has new promos daily. And sure, Hard Rock Bet is Florida's only legal sportsbook, but you don't have to be in Florida to join the party. Hard Rock Bet is also live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado and Michigan. More states on the way. Download the Hard Rock Bet app today and let's get the party started. Payable and bonus bets not a cash offer offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital, LLC and all other states must be 21 or over and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, or Virginia. To play, terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida, call 1833 PLAYWISE in Indiana. If you or someone you know as a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it in Arizona, Ohio and Virginia, call 1-800-my reset gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, and Tennessee.
- [20:56]
Simon Hunter
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Jonas Brothers
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Podcast Promo Voice
Foreign.
- [21:11]
Jonas Brothers
Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news?
- [21:14]
Jason Timf
Huge news.
- [21:15]
Jonas Brothers
We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.
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Jason Timf
We invented a podcast.
- [21:20]
Jonas Brothers
Well, we didn't invent it. We. We just contributed to First People to Do Podcasts. Pretty. Yeah, Pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special. So how do we. How do we actually come up with a name? Hanging hey, Jonas. Guys, I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it and, well, we were thinking. I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was. This is how you guys remember it going down?
- [21:48]
Jason Timf
Yes.
- [21:49]
Jonas Brothers
I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, hey, Jonas. And offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.
- [22:14]
Fernanda Echadri
I love the sounds. The buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place soccer. Football at home.
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Jason Timf
Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed?
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Fernanda Echadri
I inherited that fandom from my mom.
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Jason Timf
I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force.
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Fernanda Echadri
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Jason Timf
A soccer game is a fun festival, is not just a game. It's your culture.
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Chad Millman
I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull.
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Jason Timf
It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though.
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Fernanda Echadri
Are they the only ones that don't
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Jason Timf
like that nobody likes that.
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Fernanda Echadri
As we get ready for the men's World cup this summer, listen to American football as part of the Mikeultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Isaiah Thomas
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CJ Toadano
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Isaiah Thomas
Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luka and Austin Reed and finding ways
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CJ Toadano
to win no matter what.
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Isaiah Thomas
He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before and he knows without Luka and Austin Reaves, I gotta manipulate the game.
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CJ Toadano
We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.
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Isaiah Thomas
I think Joker's gonna be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed, he has to guard Julius Randle and then he has to give us everything. He gives us on a night to night basis on offense.
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CJ Toadano
And when it's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.
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Steve Nash
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CJ Toadano
So listen to Point game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:26]
Chad Millman
All right, Jace. Knicks are five and a half point underdogs in game two. The total is 214 and a half. I think Simon says something really smart. A second ago. The Knicks looked like, and this is my kid and I were talking about this this morning. The Knicks looked like grown ups in the middle of that third quarter. Wemby goes out, Cat takes over. But their size and strength, it's like they were playing with grown man strength and the spurs were playing with sort of developing strength. How do you think all of this manifests itself in game two?
- [25:02]
Jason Timf
So I, interestingly enough, even though I do think the spurs will win game two, I think it's on the table that the Knicks win again. There were a lot of things from that game that didn't go the Knicks way. Like Josh Hart didn't really have anything going offensively early in the game. I thought the Knicks missed some really clean looks as they were a little bit rusty. And honestly, like, like Simon talked about it. Speaking of the adjustments like, they allowed just 33 points to the. Excuse me, 32 points to the, to the spurs over the final 20 minutes of that game. Once they went up 63 to 20, that was with eight minutes left in the third quarter, they finished with 95 points. Like, they just straight up didn't score over the course of the final 20 minutes of that game. There are certain things that I. I expect the spurs to adjust. They torched the Thunder, or, excuse me, they torched the Knicks in the regular season with this action where they would have Wemby come off of wide screens from Brunson's man. So they'd have champagne, who's usually the guy Brunson's guarding. Just go set a screen for Wemby coming out of the corner and they get some good stuff. For whatever reason, they just didn't do that last night. They kind of stuck with the same offensive approach they had against the Thunder. They did have a play late in the game where they ran a pick and roll for Wemby, but instead of trying to shoot in the first two seconds, they patiently waited and swung the ball around. And because Wemby rolled, he had deep post position. Because that's like, you don't have to run a pick and roll just to get a shot. Sometimes you can do it just to alter the geometry of the floor a little bit. They ran a pick and roll. Wemby ended up having two feet in the paint, post entry, just turned right over his right shoulder and drew a foul on Cat. Like, there are things that the spurs can do to generate better shots. Vassell can shoot better, Fox can shoot better. They definitely have a lot of things that they can do better. I do believe that they'll win game two. I just look at that, like, five and a half number, and I'm like, I also wouldn't be surprised if it was another super close game or if the Knicks did end up getting it done, because they do have their advantages. I just, to me, I just, after last night, just felt more strongly about the Knicks winning the series. It's less about a team stealing a game. A team can steal a game because of weirdness. Anything can happen in a. In an NBA playoff game. It's more to me that, like, I was worried about some very specific things, like for the spurs, and all of those things came to fruition. That was what more specifically worried me. Like, that game looked eerily similar to the March 1st win that the Knicks had over the spurs, which was a fascinating win because The spurs won 11 straight games going into that game and they won five straight games after. So it was a 17 game stretch where they went 16 and one in the one loss went was a game where the Knicks beat the crap out of him in Madison Square Garden. And it was a lot of very similar stuff. Wemby had seven turnovers because he kept trying to drive that cat and cat was just walling him up and guys were digging down and taking the basketball away from him. Jalen Brunson looked pretty comfortable getting to his spots. Carl Anthony Towns looked like he had size advantages all over the floor. OG Anunoby had moments where he was scoring. The spurs guards really struggled to get anything going on offense and it was a lot of the exact same stuff. And that's what kind of scares me is like it's less about the fact that the Knicks stole game one and more about how they stole game one. They stole game one by flexing their very specific advantages all over the floor. And the main, the only reason why I'm not counting the spurs out and not just saying the Knicks are going to run away and win the series is simply because Victor Wembanyama is just a completely different animal than any other player in the league where like I just like he almost stole that game last night on a terrible night where he was playing like crap. He hits a step back three over Mitchell Robinson. He has like a, a foul on like a vertical spacing opportunity where he gets shoved in the back by shamity. Is that rip through move on cat where he gets the and one like he almost through sheer force of will stole that game. And if it wasn't for Jalen Brunson getting that offensive rebound tap out for the three or hell if, maybe if Darren Fox just doesn't foul Mikhail Bridges on that little pull up flash there in the middle of the lane, like the spurs could have still gotten it done. So like the, the real like ace in the hole here is I still think Wemby's the best player in the series. I think it's A, if there's one reason to bet the spurs in Game 2, it's simply because like Wemby's mentality, is there any doubt that he's going to be awesome tomorrow night? Like he's gonna be awesome tomorrow night? Like I, I think we're going to get 30 and 15 from him at least.
- [29:41]
Chad Millman
Or the, the flip side is if Dearon Fox had made any of those mid range jumpers at any point in the fourth quarter, I mean he just could not Buy a shot last night. This is a random question. Wemby's 74 and thin as a rail. Jason, in sort of the NBA universe, I never hear anybody talk about, what if Wemby puts on weight? What if Wemby has more muscle? Like, does anyone talk about his body type not being able to add the kind of muscle that would make him even stronger? Or does that be something that people talk about because the guy already is so dominant? If he has muscle and mass, it won't even be a close to a fair fight anymore. Any conversation around Cat is. Is irrelevant because he'll be as big.
- [30:36]
Jason Timf
So this is actually, I don't think it's a strength issue. I think it's a center of gravity issue. He is. And like, Cat is like, literally the exact opposite of this, because Cat's like one of the few seven footers in the league who just has like a low center of gravity. He just does. But, like, Wemby's center of gravity is just very high. And the. The example that I give is Anthony Davis as a counter. When was Anthony Davis as at his best in, like, 2020 or earlier, when he was this skinny, wiry, just freak talent that was hitting jump shots and anchoring everything on the defensive end of the floor? Or when he bizarrely bulked up into this, like, brick house? Part of my language there over the course the last couple of years, who frankly, was slow and still wasn't really bullying anybody because he had a high center of gravity. So, like, he was just. He had this, like, huge upper body. But it's not like he turned into Shaq. He was still. He was still getting dislodged by Nicole Jokic and. And struggling to really impact games as, like, a bully ball player. So, like, with Wemby, I think his strength is in his mobility. And now that comes hand in hand with it. Like, will Wemby ever be able to just bully his way to the basket against the Carl Anthony Towns types? No, but I don't think he needs to. To be the best player. To be the best player that he can be. Like, there's going to be timely post play from him, specific types of matchups like, oh, game one against okc, they guarded him with guards the whole time. Okay, so he has 40 and 20, right? Or. Yeah, we ran this really good action that got him deep post position, kind of like we were talking about with the pick and roll earlier or the, you know, certain things on the offensive glass. He's going to have opportunities to use his length around the basket. But the truth of the matter is, is he's never going to be a bully ball player. His center of gravity is too high. Where he's going to have an advantage is in his height and in his mobility on the perimeter. So, like, for all the talk about the jump shots, like, he was actually a relatively efficient jump shooter in this postseason. Before last night, he was getting 0.95 points per attempt, which is like really solid in this playoff field, that's almost a point per shot. And at various points in the postseason, he's won games with his jump shooting, most famously in game one of the the OKC series. But like, I, I think there's a lot of this, like, oh, Wemby, he settles too much. Why doesn't he try to post up more where it's like, I actually think it's self aware. It's just unpolished now. But he's never going to be a guy who's bullying through players that have lower centers of gravity. It's just, even if he does put on muscle, it's just not a battle he can win in terms of leverage.
- [33:27]
Chad Millman
You so perfectly answered my question. I love that you've thought about it.
- [33:32]
Fernanda Echadri
Want to get more work done with less effort? On TikTok, creators are sharing AI automation tips that save time and deliver better results. Tap to discover. Try TikTok now.
- [33:47]
Jonas Brothers
Number one hits. Millions of records sold awards, sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?
- [33:53]
Fernanda Echadri
Nope.
- [33:54]
Jonas Brothers
It's podcast time.
- [33:55]
Jason Timf
We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
- [33:58]
Jonas Brothers
A Jonas is available now, and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.
- [34:02]
You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Didn't he tell you not to audition at the office or something? I told him, whoa, we were filming Anchorman. Clearly I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't look, listen to them, right?
- [34:13]
Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [34:22]
Fernanda Echadri
I love the sounds. The buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place soccer, football at home.
- [34:31]
Jason Timf
Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed?
- [34:36]
Fernanda Echadri
I inherited that fandom from my mother.
- [34:39]
Jason Timf
I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force.
- [34:43]
Fernanda Echadri
From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Echadarri, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the US and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great.
- [34:58]
Jason Timf
A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game, it's your culture.
- [35:03]
Chad Millman
I took an elbow to my head which cracked my skull.
- [35:06]
Jason Timf
It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that though.
- [35:09]
Fernanda Echadri
Are they the only ones that don't like that?
- [35:12]
Jason Timf
Nobody likes that.
- [35:14]
Fernanda Echadri
As we get ready for the men's World cup this summer, listen to American football as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [35:29]
Isaiah Thomas
What's up fam? It's Isaiah Thomas and I'm CJ Toadano.
- [35:32]
CJ Toadano
And our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.
- [35:35]
Isaiah Thomas
Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed and finding way
- [35:40]
CJ Toadano
to win no matter what.
- [35:41]
Isaiah Thomas
He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before and he knows without Luka and Austin Reaves, I gotta manipulate the game.
- [35:51]
CJ Toadano
We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.
- [35:54]
Isaiah Thomas
I think Joker's gonna be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed, he has to guard Julius Randle and then he has to give us everything he got, gives us on a night to night basis on offense.
- [36:08]
CJ Toadano
And when it's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.
- [36:13]
Steve Nash
Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying he running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh yeah. Get your ass up and down the court and you gonna get the ball.
- [36:28]
CJ Toadano
So listen to Point game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [36:34]
Chad Millman
Knicks were plus 170 before game one to win the series. Simon, now they are minus 140. The spurs were minus 200. They are now plus 115. Let me give you some some MVP numbers too so you can take a beat and think about where the value might be from a professional point of view. Brunson for MVP plus 200, minus 110. Wemby minus 200 plus 120. I mentioned Cat Castle has gone from 60 to 75 to 1. Deer and Fox is basically off the board. It's 75 to 2, 75 to 250 to 1. Simon, where do you see the value right now? What are you hearing about the value as a better. Even though NBA isn't your Thing. Do you take a flyer on the spurs at +115? Do you take a flyer on WEMBY at +120 now that you're getting a little better number?
- [37:32]
Jason Timf
Yeah, I would say.
- [37:33]
Simon Hunter
Before the series, a lot of people were talking about Brunson and Wemby. That was pretty much the only two guys I think most people are betting I am in total lounge Jason here. I think Cat is the obvious choice, right? He's got the storyline with everything in his past, everything he's gone through and the fact that he's shutting down potentially most important player to on the Spurs. That's everything. Like he doesn't need to score the points if he can just take Wimby out of the game. That's going to be such a huge talking factor, I think, in the media, especially the next two weeks, because these games are really spaced out. So a lot of these games are going to be just conversation in the media between the weeks. And that really dictates mvp, especially when it's not. You know, you can say Brunson's a superstar of the Knicks. He's not your typical superstar, right? He's not that guy that's always all about me dictating everything. Wants to be the main person. Like even in his interviews, he brings his teammates on the stage with him and you know, talking about Wemby and his weight, I do think it's like a KD thing, Chad, honestly, where it's like it don't matter. Like, it's just the skill level is so high. Whatever his weakness is, he adapts to it. And in this matchup, I think he's going to adapt. I just, I honestly thought he just looked tired. It just, it just in that fourth quarter that, that, that second half, he already had a rough first half. You could say shooting wise, it just felt like he just looked so tired. Like Cat just put his body into him and wearing him down. The whole, the whole team did. The Knicks were just on him the whole game. So I, I don't know where Jason's at with. I feel like there's no value at this point in the series. Like, I, I really don't want to be betting the Spurs. I know that's where I said the value is. I, I'm a total agree with Jason. Like they could easily be down 20 and you've already, now you're, you've bet into two bad numbers. If you've taken San Antonio and I, I, to me, that's not the position I Think that Cat position, especially a hard rock 12 to 1, that's crazy good value. Like, to me, he should be closer to 7 to 1, 8 to 1. So I'm. I'm gonna take that free free money around the books are giving out his MVP ads, Chase.
- [39:29]
Jason Timf
Yeah, so it's interesting because, like, I do think if the Knicks win, it's more likely that Brunson gets MVP just simply because of the easily tangible numbers and moments. Like he had 30 points last night, he hits 30, the big shot late in the game. Like that is such easily digestible content, especially for some of the voting pool that we have like, like it. But we have seen for the record, people get Finals MVP before for defensive performance. Kawhi Leonard, famously in 2014. Andre Guadala, famously in 2015, famously against the perceived best player in the world in LeBron James. Kind of like Wemby is now. So like that works in Kat's favor. Is like Kat is the primary defender on the guy that is the best player on the other team. It's less to me about like. Like if. If you ask me which guy I think is more likely to win MVP if the Knicks win, it's obviously Brunson by some small margin. It's the value. 12 to 1 is such a ridiculous number to get a guy in Cat at who, like, I think, frankly, was their best player last night. So over the course of the series, if you just have fewer clutch games, more blowouts, the more blowouts. Like let's say for instance, the Knicks just win three, four and six. Like, that's how they win the series. Spurs win tonight. Spurs win Game 5. And in 3, 4 and 6, the Knicks win by 10 to 15 points in every game. And Brunson doesn't need to have clutch moments, which then shines a greater light on Cat's overall impact on both ends of the floor. I think 12 to 1 is fantastic value. As far as the series price goes, I would have put the knicks at about minus 140 before the series. So them being minus 140 now at. At up 1 0, I think there's value on the Knicks there. Like, I just think the Knicks are going to win. So like, to me, like, if you asked me to handicap the Knicks right now, I'd put them at like 2 to 1 probably. So to get him at minus 140, that's a pretty. A pretty decent value in my opinion right now.
- [41:26]
Chad Millman
Do you feel like how can you rank Jalen Brunson in his ability? You mentioned find his spot to, to create offense in the way that KD can, right? Like, there are certain guys in the NBA, they're gonna. They're just bucket getters. They're gonna find a way to score. Jayla Brunson, he gets a lot of credit for his mastery of his footwork and his ability to use leverage on his opponents. But how would you rank him in terms of his ability to be a just a professional bucket in the NBA right now? Because that might be why he doesn't get that superstar sort of acknowledgment in addition to. He's just seems like a much more humble guy who's not thinking about it that way.
- [42:18]
Jason Timf
You know, I got a question kind of similar to this along these lines in my mailbag last night at the end of the show. But like, you know, Brunson is not, not as good as Giannis when he's at his best. He's just not. He's not as good as Luca. He's not as good as. As Wemby. He's not as good as Shay. He's not as good as Jokic. Like, the top five guys are just so incredibly impactful in so many different ways that that's kind of like, I'm not going to say an uncrackable list for Brunson, but like, like Brunson doesn't have a single first team all NBA selection. He doesn't have a single like real MVP finish. Like, Brunson just is not on the level of those guys. I think he's the next guy. Like, he's clear. Like, I would take Brunson over Ant. I would take Brunson over Tatum at this point. Like, Brunson has elevated above that group. He's kind of become the tag, like the tag along guy on the top tier. Like he's not as good as the top tier guys, but he's clearly better than all the second tier guys. So he kind of operates in that gap in between the two as one of the better offensive players in the league. Just not quite as all around impactful.
- [43:22]
Simon Hunter
But do you believe Brunson, that was the best American player? Like, what you're saying now is blowing my mind. I never want to guess that, by the way.
- [43:28]
Chad Millman
That's so true.
- [43:30]
Simon Hunter
Jesus.
- [43:31]
Jason Timf
I love Ant. Is. Is he as good at running an NBA offense as Brunson? No. And Ant is a very, very capable defender athletically, but he's not a disciplined defender. He makes all sorts of mistakes and cuts corners on that end all the time. He's one of the most maddening defenders I watch in film every single year. Like, Ant to me is typical for an early 20s guard in that he's just, he's just got a lot of like, fat in his game, that he's got to trim that in order to, to really be that level. Like, I think, like, if you ask me who's going to be better in three years, Brunson or Ant. Obviously it's Ant, but like, I don't. I could not make a case for Ant over Brunson right now at this moment in time. Like, Brunson's just a better basketball player than him right now. Where it gets fascinating to Chad's point is this idea of just getting buckets. Because if you ask now, let's reframe the question. Instead of like, who is going to be the best player on my team for 82 games in a playoff run? Which is the discussion that I was just having, instead let's say I've got a basketball game with four minutes left and we're tied. Who's the best guy I can have on my team in there? I would argue Brunson has a case to be number one. I don't know necessarily that I'd put him there. Like, it gets really dicey against like a Shea or, or a Luca. But like, you could make the case that the guy that should be number one there is that a cat that just walked in front of the screen. That was a giant cat too.
- [45:04]
Chad Millman
He has a massive. You talk about lower body strength and Simon's version of cat is his cat.
- [45:11]
Jason Timf
I have a Great Pyrenees that's 110 pounds and is just like Snow White and long like that looks like the great Pyrenees of cats.
- [45:21]
Simon Hunter
Yeah, that's a 20 pound Maine Coon. It's a big cat, man. Yeah.
- [45:25]
Jason Timf
But anyway, to make a long story short, like, I, I think specifically in that late game situation, Brunson is arguably the best and certainly in that top tier. If he's not in the top tier of stars for the entire NBA campaign, he is in the top tier of stars for guys in the final minutes. The one thing that's different between him and like a KD is KD just shoots over the top of you. Brunson has this magnificent combination of, like you said, Chad, the footwork and the skill to touch, but it's also like the creativity. Like, he'll take awkward angles and awkward releases. He'll shoot with more arc or with less arc. He can shoot with both hands. He has like this variety of different finishing angles that make him like, extremely difficult to guard in these situations. Because those creative, audacious shots are almost impossible to be efficient with over a large sample. But they give you more optionality when it's like, I got two or three possessions here, guys, where I got to get a shot. And it's like the shot over Vesel is a classic example. Like, I thought I got him off his feet, I did, but he jumped straight up and down. He came straight back down in the same spot, so I couldn't draw the foul on him. But now I'm stepping through. I didn't get the call, I'm falling over. But hey, I, I can shoot a falling over drifting sky bomb that just doesn't even touch the rim and falls purely through the net like that. That's the classic example of the Brunson effect. Like, it's KD beats. You just shooting right over the top because you can't do nothing about it. Brunson. It's all this creativity and audacity and like just everything looks a little bit different. It's very, like, it very much feels like a six foot dude who doesn't have outstanding athletic traits, who's just squeezing every little advantage out of every little part of the game.
- [47:05]
Chad Millman
It's the dude who knows exactly every angle on the backboard and like frustrates those big players he goes against because he gets the shot off, they can't time it. They can't time their block because he gets the shot off about a millisecond before they would expect him to. Before he's got that at the top of his jump or whatever it is. If he's driving the lane, like it's just a little bit of trickery. That is just brilliant. Jason, before we let you get out of here because you got, you got very important work to do today with the boss of the Volume podcast network, Colin Cowherd. You said you like the Knicks. I assume it's Knicks 6, Knicks 7. Knicks plus 700 in 7, Knicks plus 300 in 6. Where do you like the. The series. Exact number of games, exact series score to land.
- [47:56]
Jason Timf
So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go nixon6. I think what will end up happening is the spurs will win game two and then the Knicks will win the two games in msg. The spurs will save their season at home in Game 5, and then the Knicks will close them out in six. That's what I think is going to happen. I have to ask you though, what is the line for a Knicks sweep. I know it sounds blasphemous, but I want to hear it.
- [48:14]
Chad Millman
Hold on, let me check that right now. I know Matt Mitchell's a very good producer. Plus 600 right now.
- [48:22]
Jason Timf
Plus 600.
- [48:24]
Chad Millman
Yeah.
- [48:25]
Jason Timf
I don't think that's a terrible line. Like, hear me out. The Knicks haven't lost in, you know, they've won, what, they've won, what, 12 games in a row. They absolutely are capable of going in and winning tomorrow night. At which point MSG is on fire for game three. And then you have a young team down 3, 0 and MSG, like I said this on my show last night, I don't think it's gonna happen. But like a sweep is like so on the table and like you want to talk about a story like, how does that break the basketball world if the Knicks sweep back to back to back rounds in including sweeping the Spurs? And we have something like Carl Anthony Towns hoisting the the Bill Russell Finals MVP trophy.
- [49:13]
Chad Millman
Amazing. The MSG is going to be on fire no matter what. For game three. I would recommend anyone who's going and is spending $25,000 a ticket just to sit in the 300 level at MSG, get there at three in the afternoon and hope they open the doors as quickly as possible. Because if Trump is going, as someone who went to the Indiana national title game, where Trump was at, it took hours to get in and that stadium allows 70,000 people. So MSG game three is just going to be a live wire and it's going to be so awesome to watch. Oh, my God. Fucking Nicks. All right, that's our show. This has been Sharper Square, part of the volume podcast network. Watch or listen on YouTube at Sharper Square. Like this video. Subscribe to the channel. Download us on Spotify, Apple pods, wherever you get your pods. Rate, review, subscribe, Leave us. Five stars. Say whatever you want to. Feedback is a gift. Until next time. Love you.
- [50:13]
Jason Timf
You know, they had established a friendly
- [50:15]
Podcast Promo Voice
wager before the series began.
- [50:17]
Jason Timf
If the Pacers win, Spike Lee said
- [50:20]
Podcast Promo Voice
he would cast Miller's wife, model Marita
- [50:24]
Jason Timf
in his next movie. If the next win, Miller would visit Mike Tyson in prison.
- [50:33]
Jonas Brothers
Number one hits, millions of records sold awards, sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?
- [50:39]
Jason Timf
Nope.
- [50:40]
Jonas Brothers
It's podcast.
- [50:41]
Jason Timf
We get to ask other people questions
- [50:42]
IBM Narrator
because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
- [50:44]
Jonas Brothers
A Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.
- [50:48]
You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Didn't he tell you not to audition the Office or something. I told him, whoa, we were filming Anchorman. Clearly, I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?
- [50:59]
Listen to hey, Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.
- [51:06]
Fernanda Echadri
Guaranteed Human.