J. Mack (4:42)

Show with Christmas Eve heat.

Colin Cowherd (4:44)

Here we go. So I want to, I want to get to Jordan Love and the Packers. I'm going to get to that in about four minutes, but I want to start the show with this 34 nothing win. And they didn't ask Jordan Love to do much, but there's a reason the Green Bay packers and only the Green Bay packers, and they've done it twice, have drafted a really great quarterback in the first round and sat him for three years because they have no owner, no ego, no meddling, no demands. Even the great owners, Stan Kroenke, Jeffrey Lurie, Robert Kraft, they would want to see Their investment. They wouldn't want a first round pick on the bench for three years. Drafting and developing. Last week there's video of the Krafts in their box wanting to be on camera reportedly telling cbs, get us on camera criticizing the coaches. Play calling. Last week a story out the jets, the jets owners, the kids harassing jets players in the locker room. Yet the packers clinched their 37th playoff appearance last night. Number one all time. You know who they surpassed? The Dallas Cowboys. Whose owner, an egomaniac, needs to be on radio every week dissecting the win. The Panthers. Seven coaches in six years, if you count the interims. Look upstairs. That's why you're bad. Is it a shock? They're 4 and 11 in Carolina and here is Green Bay. No meddling, no owner. For years I always saw it as a weakness. Now I see it as a strength. All Green Bay does is whatever is best for the development of their young quarterback. Three straight quarterbacks. Star, star, star. All three Favre's in the hall of Fame. Rogers will be. And Love looks like he's on his way. It's all football because as owners have gotten richer, all of them are billionaires now. And crazier and more impulsive. It gets in the way of the development of the most important position. Think it's a coincidence Aaron Rodgers is 4 and 11 and now irrelevant. And in Green Bay he was a back to back mvp. And after Brady, the biggest star in the league. Do you think it is a coincidence that the Cleveland quarterback situation is the worst and messiest in the league? It's not the coach's fault. Stefanski's great. It's not the GM's fault. Andrew Barry's excellent. They draft well. It's the Haslam's. You think it's a coincidence that Sam Darnold is having an unbelievable year? And in Carolina, in the jets, he was a tire fire. No, the Wolf family in Minnesota has always been very low profile. 99% of you don't know what the Wilf family looks like. It is not a coincidence. Only the packers and I used to see it as a weakness. Can draft a young quarterback who's talented and sit him and develop him for three years. Aaron could have played earlier. Jordan Love could have played earlier. But if you're just about football, no meddling, no ego, no impulsive crazy person, that's what you should do. Even these young quarterbacks. Now Jaden Daniels, he's good enough to play. But it wasn't the end of the world that Michael Penck sat It wouldn't have been at the end of the world if Drake may or Bo Nick sat. But I'm watching what Green Bay does even after their win last night. Here's the locker room, and what you don't see is an owner that needs attention. Listen, I love this team. I love this energy. And we got something special here. We just got to keep building on it. All right, Way to handle your business. We go to the playoffs, 37th playoff appearance. Number one all time for the smallest market in the NFL, the smallest media, surpassing Dallas, who is Jerry is aged, has regressed badly, and his need to talk right after the game and be on radio has increased. I do not believe it's a coincidence. And now let's talk Jordan Love. I'm finding this to be true, especially with young quarterbacks, but old ones, too. I can't separate the quarterback from the coach because there is such a huge gap between the really good coaches and. And. And Jordan Love has one and Matt Stafford has one and Lamar has one and Mahomes has one and Justin Herbert has one and Bo Nix has one. I can't separate them. The p. The position's never been more important. And there's a huge gap between the really good coaches and the average ones. And I look at Jordan Love and I see Matt LaFleur. Matt LaFleur, Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVeigh, they're considered offensive wizards, but deep down, they love the power run game. I mean, you ever watch a Rams game, how often Kyron Williams, tiny Notre Dame or Kyron Williams, guy carries the ball 25 times a game. He's not Derrick Henry, not built like that. Todd Gurley, if you go look at McVay's history, he wants to run the ball. Even with Stafford and with Goff, two top 10 quarterbacks, I mean, Shanahan, I mean, he has a losing record. In San Francisco Without Christian McCaffrey, the soul of Kyle Shanahan is the run game. And it's the same with Matt LaFleur. Where did he come from? Where did he build his resume? In Washington behind a Shanahan, a run coach. And in Tennessee with Derrick Henry. So Jordan Love is throwing fewer passes that he's ever thrown. Six straight games under 30 attempts and yet five straight games scoring over 30. When I watch Jordan Love, I see Matt LaFleur. He has reduced his attempts. He's the captain. And Jordan Love is a great vessel. I feel the same way with Herbert. Jim Harbaugh is the captain. Herbert's the vessel. And it's amazing that in both cases, and you're seeing this in Philadelphia too, the quarterback is throwing less but is winning more and the team is often scoring more as the quarterback throws less. And we all know quarterback's the most important position in the league. But I, but I. What I'm finding in this league now, when I watch Green Bay, this is Matt levlore's team. This, this is basically Tennessee with a better quarterback. He had Derek Henry, now he's got Josh Jacobs and I'm watching Josh Jacobs like this. When Aaron and Matt were together, it was Aaron's team. There were concessions. You have to have concessions with Aaron and I'm not. It's not a cheap shot. Just Mike McCarthy found it out. You'll see the door if you don't. But when I watch Green Bay, and this is not a knock at Jordan Love because I think He's a top 10 quarterback in this league or higher. There is a group of quarterbacks in this league and they have a connection with the coach and we can put it on the screen. But I can't think of Mahomes without Reed and I can't think of Stafford without McVay and Herbert and Lamar and Jordan and Sam Darnold. I just, I can't separate them. I mean, I see C.J. stroud as great and D'Amico Ryan's is a great coach. I don't, I don't see a connection there. They're both excellent. And here was Jordan Love after the shutout. I still think there's a lot of, a lot more points out there for us, a lot more big time plays. I just think it's little things that, you know, when we start being more consistent and dialing in on these things that, you know, the sky's the limit for the offense. Yeah, it was, you know, something else that's happening and I won't waste a lot of time on it because it may be boring, but this year we have 10 teams in the NFL. 32% of the teams in the NFL have five wins or fewer. And they're, they're all going to mostly if, if New Orleans doesn't win. And if you watch them last night, that was pretty ugly. I mean, they didn't compete. That was maybe the most lopsided game of the season. A third of the league. It's like the NBA now is unwatchable and non competitive. Last year it was only five teams. Only five teams last year had five wins or fewer. We're at 10 and a lot of these teams are not getting to five wins. Forget five wins. We got one with two, we got five with three, we got three with four and we got the Saints. And when you watched last night, I it's hard to deny what is happening as quarterback has become more important, as billionaires are crazier and running through coaching staffs more chaos. The gap between the haves and the have nots is huge. I mean, if, if Atlanta and Pennock stand first, there's a chance I'll get seven of the eight divisions, right? I've predicted seven of eight. Why there's a separation now if you have the quarterback and you have a competent coach, I mean, you are looking in your rear view mirror at the rest of this nonsense by like two weeks after Thanksgiving. I mean, that thing last night that was embarrassing like that. Nobody wanted to be there except Packer fans. J. Mack Marcus Freeman, Notre Dame coach this hour I saw something. We had Matt Hasselbeck on yesterday. I've got a bite from him. It was so good. I saw something that and I know Christmas Day is generally an NBA day. It's not anymore two NFL games tomorrow. But I saw something about the NBA that is interesting. It's a player that you and I love. But there was an alarming lack of attention being given to him. And we, we both love this player. And last year at this time, he was, he was thought of as the rising star in the league. And I'm not talking Wemby, and I'll get to that in a second. JLab, California based personal tech company. Makes headphones, earbuds, a lot of stuff, mice, keyboards. They make products that fit your life, look cool and have surprising value. They understand the products you want at JLab and make sure the experience of owning them is a great one. Right now, 60% off on select products from JLab. Okay, gifts under 100, gifts under 50, even 25 bucks. Styles, colors, sizes, a variety. JLab True Wireless Earbuds, perfect for the podcast listener or fitness enthusiast. Headphones. I mean, if you love music, you love podcasts. Is there a better gift than headphones? Pick up the JLabs, JBuds, Lux, ANC, tune out the drone of a jet engine or just a talkative relative. Go to jlab.com find the blue box. That's how I found them. The Blue Box. Walmart, Best Buy, target all retailers. Jlab.com Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1.

Marcus Freeman (15:42)

And the iHeartRadio app.

Colin Cowherd (15:44)

This podcast is sponsored by PayPal, we've partnered with them to make this holiday season even better. With all the shopping, gifting and holiday prep, my PayPal debit card is my go to for getting more out of my purchases. Here's how it works. I choose my monthly category. Gas, restaurants, apparel, groceries, health and beauty, or just for the holiday season, tech. And I earn 5% cash back on up to a thousand bucks in the purchases in those categories. Yeah, 5% cash back. This month I'm gonna go with tech. It's my category. It's a no brainer, right? Everybody loves the latest tech gifts. So whether it's stuff for the famous or adding new gadgets to my personal collection, that cash back adds up fast. So this holiday season, let the PayPal debit card do the heavy lifting. Sign up for the card when you download the PayPal app. Then pay in store and online and get cash back with a PayPal debit card. Don't just pay PayPal terms and limits apply. See paypal.com rewardspal the PayPal Debit MasterCard is issued by the Bancor Bank N.A. pursuant to a license by MasterCard International, Inc. And may be used everywhere MasterCard is accepted. Apple Card is the perfect card for your holiday shopping. You can apply on your iPhone in minutes and start using it right away. You'll earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including products at Apple like a new iPhone 16 or Apple Watch Ultra. Start holiday shopping for your friends and family today with Apple card subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and.

Lavar Arrington (17:11)

More@Applecard.Com hey, this is Levar Arrington here from up on Game. And listen, I want to talk to you about something very serious for a minute, all right? Something personal to me and right now something that should be personal to you as well. In our country, the hate is at an all time high and it's like we're going backward. The hate is winning. We can't allow that, all right? It's out of control. So many different people, so many different groups are facing too much hate. And it's enough. It's time for it to stop. We need to stop, regroup, change the momentum as a team, because that's what we are. Everyone in this country is on the same team. So let's act like it. And when a team can't get it together, what do you do? You call a timeout. And that's what we need to do. Call a timeout against hate. Let's think about what we say and do and when we see hate, when we see someone doing or saying those things we know are wrong and hateful. We need to call it out. Imma call it out. You need to do the same thing. Visit Stand up to all hate.org to help and join me in calling for a timeout against hate by following at what's up with Hate or posting the Blue Square emoji.

Colin Cowherd (18:30)

What's on your list of popular game day foods? Probably multiple dishes with the bold flavor of the original Louisiana brand hot sauce. You can't beat the original with a 90 year history of great taste and quality. Tailgate, house party, game day gatherings, whatever. Include real flavor sliders with the original Louisiana brand hot sauce. The beer cheese with that hit of Louisiana peppers. There has to be original Louisiana brand hot sauce on your game day food list. It's the perfect everyday hot sauce that complements every meal. There's a rich food tradition in Louisiana bringing bold peppery flavor with just the right amount of heat. Pigs in a blanket Pig's not in a blanket. Spinach Artichoke dip Artichoke Spinach dip Wings are wingier than ever with the original Louisiana brand wing sauce. Perfect for self appointed flavor experts. The original Louisiana brand Hot sauce the game day flavor changer Fish flavor favors the bold. Available at a store near you. I'm Colin Coward from The Herd Intuit QuickBooks wants you to achieve your dreams of starting your own business and working for yourself. And if you're a small business owner launching a company, then you'll want to check out Mind the Business Small Business Success stories from iHeart's Ruby Studio and Inuit QuickBooks Season 1 and 2 are out now and Season 3 is launching Thursday, January 9th with new episodes coming out every other Thursday after that. So make sure you catch up and listen as hosts Austin Henkwitz and Jenice Torres talk to small business owners about how they've grown and maintained their businesses and tackled the hurdles and challenges that come with being your own boss. From tracking money in and out to cutting through day to day management with an all encompassing platform like Intuit QuickBooks, you don't want to miss these inspiring stories of small business journeys. Listen to Mind the Business small business success Stories on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, there were rumors he was gonna go to the NFL and Notre Dame put a stop to that. They got an extension in front of Marcus Freeman, who's the Notre Dame football coach. They beat Indiana to start the first ever 12 team playoff. And he is joining us. It's Christmas Eve. He's in the office. You know, he's in the office getting ready to play Georgia. So first of all, the first thing, why I like the playoff because years ago you guys lost early in the season in Northern Illinois at home and you'd have been done. It's like, okay, you're not playing for the Natty. This allows a mulligan. Heck, I could argue Alabama had two mulligans, Vandy Oklahoma, and they still almost made it in. So when you lost in Northern Illinois, you had to really sell your team on. We're a good team. It's okay. It happens. Let's go back to that loss. What did you say that week of practice? Because you played different, you've been more aggressive, you've gotten better each week. How did you sell your team after a devastating home loss?

Marcus Freeman (21:34)

Well, I think immediately after the game you tell them, I've been here before, right? I told him, listen, it's going to be a rough week. It's going to be a long week. But I've been here before. And I think it took me a day or two to figure out, okay, what was my messaging going to be? And what I told him on Monday in our meeting was there's schematic things we have to enhance and have to fix. But to me, the greater lesson to learn was we had to learn as a program. I had to learn as a head coach, how do we handle success? This was the first year in my three years the head coach that we won that big game early. The first two years, we lost to Ohio State early in the season. And I said, we have to learn how to handle success as a program. And. And we got to do those things that it takes to prepare mentally and physically for our opponent, no matter who it is. And all season long, I've continued to tell them, keep the pain, keep the pain, because we can't let a loss continue to teach us the lessons that we need to learn to prepare. So they've done a wonderful job of continue to find ways to get better. But the preparation has been the key in the mindset.

Colin Cowherd (22:37)

Okay, so you're playing Georgia. Both J. Mac and I said yesterday, I kind of like Notre Dame in this game, but you're facing Gunner Stockton and you have almost no footage on him. He's the backup quarterback. So I don't think he's the thrower that Beck is, but he may be just as good a runner. What do you do when you don't know much about the quarterback?

Marcus Freeman (22:56)

Well, I think you look at the 13 games they've played, they're not going to be a completely different offense with a new quarterback. You evaluate. There's about 80, 83 plays of him that we have in a cut up from the second half of the SEC championship and some other time during the season. And so there's some things he does really, really well within their system. He makes really good decisions, he makes fast decisions. He obviously can extend plays with his feet a little bit more QB run and. But, but we're still going to plan to see the things that we've seen their offense do no matter who's been at quarterback.

Colin Cowherd (23:31)

Yeah. So it's interesting. I have been advocating, I believe Riley Leonard is going to end up being a third or a fourth round pick and he will be a starter in the NFL. I've said there's some. There's a little bit of Josh Allen here where in a little Drake May where he's not quite polished yet, but he went to Duke in Notre Dame. He's smart, he's 6 5. You just told me off the air he's got a relentless work ethic. And I look at him and you ask a lot more of him than Duke did. So tell me about Riley Leonard that I don't see. I can see the athletic ability, you told me the work ethic. What separates him, what makes him special?

Marcus Freeman (24:10)

Well, I think he's an ultra competitive individual. Now you would talk to him and he's going to be the nicest person in the world. But when he steps into the weight room, he steps into the meeting room, he steps on the practice field. He is a competitive individual and I think the greatest thing for him was to learn in the first two weeks of the seasons, the highest of highs being a quarterback in Notre Dame to the lowest of lows. Yeah, you know, you can't worry about throw an interception. You can't worry about what anybody's going to say. You got to go out there with confidence and be the player that we know you could be. And so you've seen him grow in confidence but also grow in the preparation in terms of learning exactly what is demanded of him. And you've seen our coaching staff ask him to do things that he does really, really well. But he is a relentless competitor. He has a tremendous work ethic and he'll continue to ascend as he goes throughout his football career.

Colin Cowherd (25:02)

So listen, I like the 12 team playoff. I thought there were going to be closer, but you know what Do I know first round was ugly. I still, I would take that over the Pop Tart Bowl. So I'm for this thing now, you guys. Marcus, because you don't have an official conference affiliation, you don't get a first round buy. That'll never happen. Now I think stuff can be negotiated. Your take on if even if you went 12 0, you wouldn't get a buy. Did that first game actually with Indiana, did you like it? Did you like. Because you have a young team, is it an advantage or a disadvantage?

Marcus Freeman (25:35)

Well, I have to look at it as an advantage. Right. And not look at anything that happens to us as a disadvantage. To play a first round playoff game at home was an experience like no other. And to have our guys understand, okay, here's what the playoffs are all about. Because it's a first for everybody in terms of having four games or three games if you had a buy. And so it was to me a great advantage to go and prepare and to have that first game. And now you got to reset and get ready for your next opponent. Again, this is something I've never really had to dealt with because in the season, you know, you got the next game in a bowl game, you're preparing, you know that's the last one. And this is unique where you don't know if this is going to be your last game or not. And the minute we won that game, you had to reset your mind and say, okay, we got to get ready for this next opponent. Opponent. Which is going to be a tall task.

Colin Cowherd (26:27)

Okay, so Riley Mills is out for this game. Is that right? Riley Mills, the linebacker? Yep. He's a heck of a. He's a heck of a player. That's not great. How do you compensate for that?

Marcus Freeman (26:40)

Well, I think all season long, which I'm sure every team deals with, you deal with injuries and we've lost some guys to season ending injuries. Some really important people and you feel horribly for them as an individual. Riley's a guy that decided to come back to try to improve his draft stock and he's a captain. But you gotta, you know what? The next man has to get the next opportunity and he's got to go do it. And I've always said this, you've earned the trust and the opportunity way before you get thrust out there in front of the national tv. You earn that opportunity in practice and the trust from your coaches and the guys we'll put out there have earned that trust and will do a great job. But you're not going to replace Riley Mills with one person, it's multiple people that have to make up for some of the production that he's had. But we'll have some guys ready to roll.

Colin Cowherd (27:35)

Well, you've done a remarkable job, and I know college coaching with all the transfer portal and nil stuff. I got three minutes left. I actually think you have an advantage in the transfer portal because I think kids that go to Notre Dame are special, and they just don't go for a handout. Do you view it that way?

Marcus Freeman (27:53)

We always say that the guys that choose Notre Dame choose hard. And there's some requirements that you have on you here that you might not have everywhere else in the country, but they've chosen this place and they understand the value of, obviously, the football program, but the education and what this university can do for you in the longevity of your life. And so it's a special place, special culture, special people. We haven't had a guy since the portal was open in December. Enter the portal and we'll see what happens after the season. But to me, it speaks volumes about the young people that are committed to this program.

Colin Cowherd (28:32)

Well, when Notre Dame is rolling, college football is better. You're crushing it. Don't go to the NFL. Stay in college. You know what? Your winners are a little rough. They'd be rough in Chicago or New York. Just stay at Notre Dame. All right, Marcus?

Marcus Freeman (28:47)

Absolutely, man. I appreciate the advice, Colin.

Colin Cowherd (28:50)

All right. Great. Coach Notre Dame, Marcus Freeman, Good luck. Against the Georgia Bulldogs. So they're missing their best defensive player. Georgia's missing their quarterback, Carson Beck. So he's out. They, you know, for the entire playoff. So we'll see. I was very impressed. Notre Dame just seized. Ohio State and Notre Dame seized physical control of their games. To me, like, by the second series, you just felt they were physically taking over the game. Clemson hung. Clemson scored first against Texas. Clemson had a punch. I thought Notre Dame and Ohio State, the physicality early there was. There was a sense that, oh, you don't want to be Indiana and Tennessee, and I mean early, like, second series. So I. I think I like Notre Dame. I think Boise State keeps it close. I'm going to go Buckeyes and Texas, I think we're aligned. I do think Boise State is. It's hard to sell Penn State players who just routed smu, and those players had heard of smu. I think it's hard to get a dominant favorite ready to go for a second game when you cakewalk through the first. So I could see Penn. And by the way, Penn State could be looking ahead to a Notre Dame Georgia game. I don't love this spot for Penn State. They're clearly the better team. Awful blowout. Heavy favorite with Notre Dame Georgia. Yeah, I think, yeah, I'm aligned with you on that one. This Notre Dame Georgia game is going to be fascinating because you know all the subplots. Everybody wants the SEC to go down. The SEC was a little overrated this year. They've struggled from the jump. The usc, LSU game since that opening weekend. SEC struggled. And I, I think a lot of people would love to see the Irish because remember, everybody remembers Notre Dame, Alabama.

J. Mack (30:45)

In that national championship.

Colin Cowherd (30:46)

Well, that was, remember Manti Taylor. Yeah, but that was way early. Brian Kelly, they didn't have the, they didn't have the person. And the SEC was totally dominant then. They're not dominant now. They have deep teams. Obviously Texas could win it all. But like Alabama, Georgia, dude, when I watch they've regressed. They do not have the rosters they used to. When I saw Tennessee, that was a first round knockout. It was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I watched Tennessee play three or four times. When I watched Ohio State, that is a Tyson first round knockout. You're like Big ten, best conference. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. We partnered with them to make this holiday season even better. With all the shopping, gifting and holiday prep, my PayPal debit card is my go to for getting more out of my purchases. Here's how it works. I choose my monthly category. Gas, restaurants, apparel, groceries, health and beauty or just for the holiday season, tech. And I earn 5% cash back on up to a thousand bucks in the purchases in those categories. Yeah, 5% cash back. This month I'm gonna go with tech. It's my category. It's a no brainer, right? Everybody loves the latest tech gifts. So whether it's stuff for the fam or adding new gadgets to my personal collection, that cash back adds up fast. So this holiday season, let the PayPal debit card do the heavy lifting. Sign up for the card when you download the PayPal app. Then pay in store and online and get cash back with a PayPal debit card. Don't just pay PayPal. Terms and limits apply. See paypal.com rewardspal the PayPal Debit MasterCard is issued by the Bancor Bank N.A. pursuant to a license by MasterCard International, Inc. And may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted.

Lavar Arrington (32:25)

Hey, this is Lavar Arrington here from up on game. And listen, I want to talk to you about something very serious for a minute, all right? Something personal to me and right now something that should be personal to you as well. In our country, the hate is at an all time high and it's like we're going backward. The hate is winning. We can't allow that, all right? It's out of control. So many different people, so many different groups are facing two much hate and it's enough. It's time for it to stop. We need to stop, regroup, change the momentum as a team because that's what we are. Everyone in this country is on the same team, so let's act like it. And when a team can't get it together, what do you do? You call a timeout. And that's what we need to do. Call a timeout against hate. Let's think about what we say and do. And when we see hate, when we see someone doing or saying those things we know are wrong and hateful, we need to call it out. Imma call it out. You need to do the same thing. Visit Stand up to all hate.org to help and join me and calling for a timeout against hate by following at what's up with Hate? Or posting the blue square emoji.

Colin Cowherd (33:42)

What's on your list of popular game day foods? Probably multiple dishes with a bold flavor of the original Louisiana brand hot sauce. You can't beat the original with a 90 year history of great taste and quality. Tailgate, house party, game day gatherings, whatever. Include real flavor sliders with the original Louisiana brand hot sauce. The beer cheese with that hit of Louisiana peppers. There has to be original Louisiana brand hot sauce on your game day food list. It's the perfect everyday hot sauce that complements every meal. There's a rich food tradition in Louisiana bringing bold peppery flavor with just the right amount of heat. Pigs in a blanket. Pigs not in a blanket. Spinach Artichoke dip. Artichoke spinach dip Wings are wingier than ever with the original Louisiana brand wing sauce. Perfect for self appointed flavor experts. The original Louisiana brand Hot sauce the Game day Flavor Changer Flavor Favors the bold. Available at a store near you. I'm Colin Coward from the herd Intuit. QuickBooks wants you to achieve your dreams of starting your own business and working for yourself. And if you're a small business owner launching a company, then you'll want to check out Mind the Business Small business Success stories from iHeart's Ruby Studio and Inuit QuickBooks Season 1 and 2 are out now and Season 3 is launching Thursday, January 9th with new episodes coming out every other Thursday after that. So make sure you catch up and listen as hosts Austin Henkwitz and Jenice Torres talk to small business owners about how they've grown and maintained their businesses and tackled the hurdles and challenges that come with being your own boss. From tracking money in and out to cutting through day to day management with an all encompassing platform like Intuit QuickBooks, you don't want to miss these inspiring stories of small business journeys. Listen to Mind the Business small business success stories on the Iheart app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Congratulations to 3am Innovations on their first place win for Innovation in Community at this year's unconventional Awards by T mobile for business. 3am used T Mobile 5G to enable Florian, the first AI enabled incident command platform for first responders. Florian's features include real time tracking of personnel on a 3D map and voice activation. AI is used to filter out background noise until it hears a trigger word such as Mayday, increasing situational awareness on the ground and improving on site safety. This will shape rapid response moving forward and for that, T Mobile congratulates 3IM for their unconventional thinking. Here we go. Hour two. We're off tomorrow. Bringing everything our herd hierarchy in. Nick Wright in about one minute live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. J. Mack went to the Lakers last night. They lost both games to the Pistons this year. Brutal.

J. Mack (36:51)

It was tough.

Colin Cowherd (36:52)

My guy, Austin Reeves, you know I'll.

J. Mack (36:54)

Defend him, but I gotta call him out.

Colin Cowherd (36:56)

He had a rough game. Yeah, turning the ball over like I do my men's league. Yeah. Austin Reeves and Brock Purdy.

J. Mack (37:02)

Stop.

Colin Cowherd (37:03)

Just stop. Rough year.

J. Mack (37:04)

It was one game. Brock Pie didn't even have a terrible year.

Colin Cowherd (37:07)

You've been good with your picks, but some of your takes been lukewarm at best. Are you still upset? I went after the inside the NBA guys. I heard from more people in like the 72 hours after that than I for any story I'd had in a while. Did they call you out? They were just like, wow, dude, that was crazy. And I don't know if that's like a nice way of saying you're crazy or they're agreeing with me, but NBA's got its issues right now. All right, let's do our top 10 herd hierarchy on a Tuesday. Here we go. Herd hierarchy time is now. Let's go. The top 10 NFL teams according to college number 10, the Washington Commanders. Now highest scoring average 29 a game. All time for a rookie starting quarterback. But they've also played the easiest strength of schedule so far this year. The teams they've played 96 wins and 129 losses. But Jaden Daniels, three of his five touchdown passes coming in the fourth quarter. I like the staff, I like the rookie. I still think the roster's a year away. Six or seven draft picks and a free agent signing or three commanders at number 10. Number nine. The Chargers have limitations offensively, but they are the number one scoring defense in the league. So they're going to crack the hierarchy. And they're 60 when they score 20 when they when scoring 25 plus points. You're not going to beat them. It's hard for this team to get to 25 plus points though. Lad. McConkey has been great but they've kind of got B level running backs. They don't get a ton out of their tight end position. They stay in games mostly because of their defense, great coaching and Herbert, but I put them at nine. Chargers. Number eight, the Ravens. They're probably better than this, but they've been a bit hot and cold. They have the number one offense. It is a run first offense, back to back wins by 17 plus points. But I will say and Lamar has been amazing. He's my mvp, leads the NFL in passer rating. I worry about them getting tight in big games. I would just be terrified if I was Baltimore. Having to open the playoffs in Pittsburgh after you just hammered him. But I have so much respect for the organization. I'll put him at eight. Number seven. But I think the Rams right now have a better defense. McVay, Stafford. Tyler Higby, the tight end is back. Matt Stafford over his last six games has a passer rating over 110. Nobody's getting to him. They're not turning it over in the last four weeks. Number three, scoring defense. I think they're a year away, but Stafford has all sorts of time. It's the first time all year the offensive line's in great shape. They got a weapon at tight end, wide receiver, running back, quarterback and a brilliant head coach. Rams at seven. Number six, Minnesota. You know you keep. You keep waiting for the shoe to drop. Sam Darnold has 30 touchdown passes this year. He had only 27 over the previous four seasons combined. So he's playing out of his mind. I don't think they have a great roster. I think they have a great coach, a really good quarterback and a couple of outstanding young receivers. And Brian Flores right now is the best defensive Coordinator in the league. So I can absolutely see them winning a couple of playoff games. Eight game winning streak. The Darnold story is comeback player of the decade in Sam Darnold. Vikings at 6, number 5. But I like the Lions roster better even with 19 defensive players, 14 currently on the IR. 19 total players on the IR but I think they've got a better roster. They're the only undefeated team on the road. That speaks well to their run game and physicality. They're 7 and oh on the road. Third straight game, over 34 points. I like them a lot, but at some point this league is a league of attrition and I have concerns defensively. Number four. That's why I put the packers at four, not because they drop the Saints. They lead the NFL in point differential, 92 record. Now their losses are to Detroit, but this morning they're a much healthier team. Josh Jacobs is so perfect for Matt Lafleur, the head coach. From Derrick Henry in Tennessee to Matt to Josh Jacobs. Jordan Love, by the way, is throwing less and yet scoring more. This team is on a roll, I always say. My final four teams in the Herd hierarchy are the teams I believe that can win win the Super Bowl. Green Bay's one of them at number four. Number three Buffalo, nine and one over their last ten. Listen, the story of this team is the defense isn't as good, but the offense is better and they don't turn the ball over. And you can't get the Josh Allen. He doesn't get sacked. Even when they play poorly, they win. Like this past weekend. James Cook has been a revelation for them for years and years. Josh didn't have a running back. Now he's got an A running back. Back team is very good, can win it all. Number two Philadelphia. They lost, but Jalen Hurts and Saquon Barkley are the best running back quarterback run tandem in a long time. And he got a concussion early in the game. So it's the number one rush offense, the number one or number two offensive line to Detroit. Their line play is exemplary and I think it remains the best overall roster in the league in terms of young stars, stars in their prime and older stars. Philly at two, number one. But you know, you guys can all keep denying it. They're 19 and 1 Kansas City over the last 20 games and 11 and oh and one score games. Not every super bowl champ. You should have learned this from the dynasty known as the Patriots. Not every super bowl champion is physically overpowering. Those Ray Lewis teams had better players than New England teams in most years there were Colts offenses that blew you away. The Randy Moss offense for New England never got a trophy. This team, best coach, best big pressure quarterback, arguably best defensive lineman along with miles Garrett and T.J. watt and Chris Jones. They'll probably rest him down the stretch. Hollywood Brown is back. Isaiah Pacheco is back. I have them at number one. And Nick right now, who occasionally mentions the Chiefs on his show, is joining us live. All right, attack my herd. Hierarchy. What do you make of it?

J. Mack (43:39)

It's great. Great hierarchy. I don't really have. I mean I can't find much to quibble with, you and I. Neither one of us are going to quit the Rams. I mean they don't like it doesn't. I still think they could win the conference. I'm not picking them to win the conference, but I still think they could. But yeah, let's talk about the team at the top of your hierarchy because here's the question I have, Colin. They beat Pittsburgh tomorrow and get to 15 and 1.

Colin Cowherd (44:08)

Yeah.

J. Mack (44:09)

Which I think is going to happen. Then rest everyone in the final week of the year. And they're now finally once again favorites to win the Super Bowl. This Chiefs team that has been neged all year, that has been discussed only as vulnerable, not as impressive as other Chiefs teams. A lot of people threw out one and done they have a chance to go down. This year's team, not the three year run, as objectively speaking, one of the greatest teams ever. Full list of 18 win teams in NFL history. 84 Niners, one of the five greatest teams ever. 85 Bears, one of the three greatest teams ever. 07 Patriots, one of the. Maybe the greatest team ever. Certainly the greatest team ever to not win a championship. And it would be the Chiefs if they win the title this year. And all year the media coverage has been. Something's wrong with them because people have decided that we're going to do an old BCS computer style strength of victory rather than the actual record. No team has beaten more playoff teams than the Chiefs. No team has beaten more teams still alive for the playoffs than the Chiefs. They are the only team right now that has a no doubt future hall of Famer at coach at quarterback, two at skill positions in Kelsey and Hopkins, maybe two on the offensive line in Tuney and Creed. You mentioned Chris Jones, a Hall of Fame defensive coordinator. They never lose. They're peaking at the right time. And listen, I. Your, your buddy J. Mac across from you in the studio last week said even they might not be in his top six. What? Top six all time maybe. I think they're getting there. So just seems like maybe we should put a little respect on a team that's about to three peat. That's all, that's lost one game the whole year.

Colin Cowherd (45:59)

Yeah, I would go to the Chicago Bulls, the best basketball team of all time. What made him great? This sizzling offensive dexterity. They just had the best player. What made them unbeatable. It's the best defensive team ever. Rodman, Pippen, mj. They didn't get a lot of scoring from their bigs before KU coach. They didn't have a lot of great perimeter players, but even their bench guys, Ron Harper could defend. And so sometimes no. Golden State was way more fun to watch because they had all the three ball shooters. But sometimes the greatest doesn't have the most sizzle. And to your point, Kansas City, third down, goal line coordinator, coach, quarterback are great. Now let's go to a team that does have more sizzle. And you know I love Sam Darnold. In fact I made a claim yesterday this is a little bit of hubris, but there's only one American that didn't like Zach Wilson or Daniel Jones and love Darnold. Three for three on New York quarterbacks. But let's not get into that. Let's get into this.

J. Mack (46:56)

That's true.

Colin Cowherd (46:56)

So let's get into this. What do they do? They draft a quarterback, they get Daniel Jones. Sam Darnold can leave. How in the world he and Justin Jefferson right now are the tandem in the league. If you're Minnesota, do you let him walk?

J. Mack (47:17)

All right, so this is a complex question that deserves a complex answer. But first, it is Christmas Eve, so my first gift to you should be. I choke on the words a bit. But I might owe you an apology cuz I have mocked you publicly, privately, via text, on tv, via Twitter, any medium for your Sam Darnold love affair for the last. Well, for the whole time I've known you. Yes, for seven years. And it would appear that this rose has finally bloomed and you never gave up. And you, I mean this is the fact that you never gave in on him and now you're. The play you just showed is the single best play of that young man's career. Yeah, like the one seed still available for them trailing against a team fighting for its playoff life. Climb in the pocket. Throw a perfect pass through double coverage to one of the best receivers I've ever seen in Justin Jefferson. So you deserve credit. Here is though the answer I think his future with the Vikings is going to be determined, fair or not. I just think what's going to happen, it's going to be determined by the playoff run because if they, they could finish 14 and three and all of a sudden be on the road in Los Angeles in round one like that, because they could be, they'd be the five seed if they don't win out. And that's a losable game. And even if that doesn't happen, I think that the Vikings plan right now is to franchise Darnold and see if someone wants to give them a great draft pick for him and roll with JJ with this faith of hey, maybe Colin was mostly right about Darnold. However, we have gotten a 13 win season out of Kirk Cousins. Yeah, we just got a 13 plus win season out of Sam Darnold. We think JJ has more natural talent in those guys and he's incredibly cheap. Now if they were to end up in the super bowl then I think you've got to do the Drew Brees, Philip rivers thing from 20 years ago, which is even though you drafted the replacement, you keep the veteran for one more season probably on the franchise tag and let him start next year and then figure it out from there. But I honestly think anything short of the super bowl, they franchise and trade. I think with a Super bowl appearance, they franchise and play. I don't think they're going to give him a long term extension.

Colin Cowherd (50:02)

So you and I have both been on the purdy thing. You can have an old quarterback, a pocket quarterback, a small quarterback, a big quarterback. You can do quarterback in a variety of shapes, ages, sizes, styles. What you cannot do in this league is pay a B guy, A plus money. Dallas did their sunk and Brock, you know, and again he's a franchise guy. It should start with a three or a low four. It can't start with a five or six. That pick against Miami, that play, I.

J. Mack (50:33)

Didn'T know if you went the one the week before. Back to back game losing picks. Here's the thing, Colin, and this is where neither one of us owe each other an apology. But the whole sports world owes us apologies.

Colin Cowherd (50:45)

Exactly.

J. Mack (50:45)

Because we held the line.

Colin Cowherd (50:47)

Yes.

J. Mack (50:47)

And we listened to everyone on every network scold us say oh, whether it's former quarterback, former player, just analyst, they all said oh, what more do you want to see? Look at the numbers. Best 25 game start to his career. If you don't have him butting up against the top five, you're biased. You're holding the fact that he was the last pick of the draft against him. What more do you want? And our answers were more. Our answers every time were, you know what I want? What more I want. I want more. I want to see what Brock Purdy looks like in less than absolutely ideal circumstances. And I honestly thought all off season when we argued about him every day on this show on First Things first, like, man, we're pro. You know what's probably going to happen? The Niners are going to have CMAC and IUK and Debo and Trent Williams and Kyle Shanahan and he's going to put up another awesome year and they're going to be really good again. And I'm going to be on tv. Like, yeah, I still don't believe. But instead, sadly for the Niners, those guys got hurt. They weren't there. Trent Williams got a little old and then hurt. We know cmc, all of it. And it's like, okay, Brock Purdy, instead of being in the top 1% of all situations for a young quarterback in NFL history, you're now in a league average situation. And color me shocked, he produced below league average results. And so you're talking about paying him in the, you know, 40s or low fours, high threes. I would not pay this player. I would tell this. I would say, hey, man, you're under contract. And very rarely in business or in sports when you are trying to get a new contract. Or early, can you go to the bosses and say, pay me early? They're like, okay, how was your last year? And it's like, well, the worst of my career by a mile. Usually in those circumstances they say, okay, let's see how next year goes. And I just. It was. What was so baffling to me about this discourse is it was so many of the same players, media players from the Jimmy G discourse, some of us holding the line, like, I really don't think he's that good. And then being screamed at. Look at the winds. Look at Shanahan without him. And then Jimmy G leaves immediately. Is terrible. They drop in literally. Anybody that guy produces better than Jimmy G results like, no, this guy's awesome too. So I think the Niners are about to enter a really tough situation. Trent Williams is 37. Who knows CMC, who knows what he looks like next year? IU, coming off the ACL, a lot of problems. And I don't do not believe they have a quarterback that can solve them. Even though you and I got yelled at about that for the better part of a year.

Colin Cowherd (53:48)

Yeah. Finally, Danny Parkins says hire Ben Johnson, who was showing off this weekend his playbook against the Bears. I say when you have a broken franchise, you gotta get a culture changer. You gotta do a Dan Campbell. He didn't have to be a schematic whiz. He you get Jim Harbaugh doesn't have to be a schematic whiz. When you're broken Jets, Bears, it's not about it's not about drawn up plays. It's about changing the temperature in the room. What say you on what to do with Caleb Williams and the Bears?

J. Mack (54:21)

I would lean like the ideal would have been Jim Harbaugh.

Colin Cowherd (54:25)

Yes.

J. Mack (54:25)

A culture changer that's also an offensive mind. My concern is the one guy out there that feels like a culture changer. Mike Vrabel is another defensive coach when the Bears so desperately need to lean into Caleb's talent and become a modern franchise. So Ben, I tend to agree with Danny that I think Ben Johnson makes a lot of sense. With that said, can I say something about Ben Johnson auditioning for his next job while he still has his current job?

Colin Cowherd (54:58)

Please.

J. Mack (54:58)

I I'm very impressed by him. He seems to be brilliant. Everyone seems to like him. Take none of that away. I really hope his trick play bag is as endless as he seems to think it is because rolling that that fake fumble play was brilliant and using that in that spot against that team up that many points seemed foolish. I'm going to take the audience back a decade to one of the most one of the seminal moments of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's run the 2014 season. Going into that year. Colin, keep in mind they had not won a Super bowl in a decade. Peyton Manning is now in the afc, instantly got to a Super bowl, beat Tom in the playoffs, one league mvp. And there's a real question about like oh, are the Patriots, they've come close. Ever going to win again? They pretty clearly figured out early that year, oh, there's a quirk with the rule book on eligible receivers where if you put a tight end here and a tackle here but declare one eligible, it'll trick people. And they had that in their pocket all year long. And then in the playoffs, having not won a Super bowl in a decade, down 14 points to Baltimore, they pulled it out for a whole drive to flip that game, go on to win that championship and start the second part of their dynasty. Bill Belichick didn't figure out that that would work the week before that game. They knew it and they saved it. The Lions are about to enter the most important postseason in the history of their franchise and their only path is going to be outscoring people because the defense is so hurt. I maybe would have kept that play in my back pocket rather than showed it off to everyone. Now maybe Ben Johnson will prove me wrong and in the playoffs he'll have seven more super cute cool plays. But if he doesn't, I think that was a mistake.

Colin Cowherd (57:09)

Yeah, Nick Wright. First things first. Happy Christmas Eve and Christmas for you and your beautiful family, buddy.

J. Mack (57:16)

You too. Absolutely. Colin. Merry Christmas. Talk to you soon.

Colin Cowherd (57:19)

All right, time to start thinking about holiday gifts. Jlab.com 60% off several several gifts they have headphones. You like music podcasts? Get headphones as a gift. Jlab.com Check it out One more herd the herd streams 24 hours a day, 7 days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on.

Marcus Freeman (57:42)

Demand whenever you'd like.

Colin Cowherd (57:44)

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