The Daniel Cormier Show - Ben Askren & Daniel Cormier on Ben's double lung transplant recovery, DC vs. Jon Jones match, Khabib

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

The Daniel Cormier Show (Funky & The Champ): Ben Askren & Daniel Cormier on Askren’s Double Lung Transplant Recovery, DC vs. Jon Jones, Khabib, and Wrestling

Date: January 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging episode, Ben Askren and Daniel Cormier reunite after a long hiatus following Askren’s harrowing double lung transplant. The duo, with their signature humor and honesty, dive into Ben’s health battle, the realities of recovering as a former elite athlete, and the emotional impact on their families and friends. The conversation then pivots to major MMA talking points—trash talk, star power in the UFC, dominance vs. personality, Khabib’s claims about the fight game, and the mystery of what makes a star. The latter half explores the resurgence of pro-style American freestyle wrestling, matchmaking, and upcoming high-profile exhibition matches, as well as playful debate about DC vs. Jon Jones on the wrestling mat.

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1. Ben Askren’s Double Lung Transplant & Recovery

[00:05–10:13]

Key Points

• Physical & Emotional Rollercoaster:
  • Ben shares how surreal it is to feel normal again, often forgetting what his body has endured.
    • "Sometimes I forget what happened... I'll just be doing shit around the house, get all tired, and I'll be like, why am I tired?... Oh, yeah, that lung transplant thing." (Askren, 00:23)
• Vegas Health Scare:
  • The near-fatal health crisis began around a regular trip to Vegas, with back pain mistaken for muscle strain. He thanks his wife for forcing him to go to the hospital.
    • "I told you I was having those issues in my back... my wife bugged me when we were in Vegas. She's like, just go to the hospital..." (Askren, 03:34)
• Muddled Memories:
  • Ben recalls the last seconds before being hospitalized, and then losing all memory for about 42 days.
    • "I remember walking in the door.... I don't remember anything for two months. No, it's like 40, 42 days or something like that." (Askren, 05:15)
• Heartfelt Anecdotes:
  • Ben describes emotional moments watching old training videos and doubting he'd ever wrestle again.
    • "I might not be wrestling the big guys again, but I'm gonna get beat up on the little guys at some point. But that one really made me sad that, like, that could have been the last time I ever did it." (Askren, 02:32)
• Family & Friends’ Ordeal:
  • On the hardest part:
    • "The fact that I didn't have to really go through it... I was out... I think about my wife having to come to hospital every day, not knowing her kids are gonna have their dad..." (Askren, 08:36)
• Support System:
  • DC recalls checking in relentlessly with Askren’s wife and the MMA community’s fear for his survival.
    • "Bro, I bugged her so much... Everybody was so worried if you were going to be okay..." (Cormier, 05:37)
• Resilience as an Athlete:
  • Cormier credits Askren’s athletic grit for his survival.
    • "Normal people would not have made it through that....There's a fight inside you..." (Cormier, 06:14)
• Humorous Signs of Recovery:
  • Lighthearted stories about Ben “cheating” in disc golf—proof to DC that he was on the mend.
    • "I knew you'd be okay. When you cheated me in disc golf at your house..." (Cormier, 09:41)

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2. Trash Talk, Personality, and Star Power in the UFC

[10:13–17:32]

Key Points

• Khabib’s Critique:
  • Khabib argues the UFC rewards trash talk over pure talent, especially disadvantaging quieter fighters (i.e., Russians).
    • "He said the UFC prefers fighters who talk trash and sell fights. That hurts the guys that just want to compete..." (Cormier paraphrasing Khabib, 10:13)
• Askren’s Experience:
  • Ben discusses possible reasons why Dana White kept him out of the UFC in 2013—not just trash talk, but fighting style and marketability.
    • "It's a myriad of things. It's your fighting style. He prefers strikers over wrestlers, for sure... It's your personality and charisma..." (Askren, 12:08)
• Mystery of Stardom:
  • The co-hosts list cases like Sean O’Malley, Paddy Pimblett, Demetrious Johnson, and Nate Diaz.
    • "Building stars is kind of those things... it's almost mysterious. Like, how do certain people catch on...?" (Askren, 14:40)
• Notable Quotes and Examples:
  • On one-liners:
    • "He said my balls were hot. That was what everyone like." (Askren about Derrick Lewis, 15:32)
  • On Nate Diaz:
    • "Nate Diaz... has convinced people he is good at fighting somehow, some way." (Askren, 16:05)
  • Revealing his record:
    • "His record is 21 and 13." (Askren, 16:36)
    • "But, you know, he made his personality. That's another one... How did his personality catch on?" (Askren, 16:58)
• Fans vs. Promotion:
  • DC and Ben agree that while the UFC gives some push, it’s really the fans who decide star status.
    • "I think the fans choose more than the UFC actually chooses who they get behind." (Cormier, 20:31)

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3. Dominance vs. Personality in Building a Star

[17:32–20:31]

Key Points

• Dominance Is Magnetic:
  • DC argues nothing attracts fans like clear dominance—pointing to Khabib, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, etc.
• The Rival Factor:
  • Askren adds that major personalities need a rival—Conor/Khabib, DC/Jones, etc.—to amplify the drama.
    • "Most of the people on the best personality list had a rival on the list also...they would amplify each other." (Askren, 20:18)
• Jon Jones’ Rise:
  • Ben credits DC’s rivalry for amplifying public interest in Jon Jones.
    • "Honestly, you were kind of what made him catch on." (Askren, 19:36)
• DC’s View:
  • "Overall dominance... if you're dominant and you just have a few breaks, you can do pretty much anything in this game..." (Cormier, 20:31)

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4. Fear, Competition, and the Fighter’s Mindset

[23:40–28:56]

Key Points

• Justin Gaethje’s Outlook:
  • Conversation about Gaethje’s excitement to face intimidating opponents—a paradoxical attraction to fear.
    • "He loves how scared he would be if he got to fight Ilot Toria, and he hopes that that fight happens." (Cormier, 23:40)
• Handling Nerves:
  • Both describe the essential difference between fear and competitive nerves.
    • "Having courage or being fearless isn't about not actually having the fear. It's about being able to do the thing you want to do anyways..." (Askren, 23:40)
    • "If those nerves didn't show themselves, I would get scared that I wasn't prepared to compete..." (Cormier, 25:35)
• Earning the Rush:
  • Ben and DC reflect on missing the unique adrenaline and meaning only real competition provides.
    • "If I could get that feeling of walking to the cage or walking to the mat, if I get that feeling every day... my life would be so great, you know? But you don't get it. You have to earn those feelings..." (Askren, 26:49)
    • "You have to earn that ability to feel those nerves for something that's so damn important..." (Cormier, 27:16)
• Danger and Opportunity:
  • On facing hard punchers: "Where there's danger, there's opportunity... you gotta kind of enjoy putting it on the line." (Askren, 24:31)

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5. The Resurgence of American Freestyle Wrestling & Matchmaking

[29:25–38:10]

Key Points

• Pro Wrestling Showcases on TV:
  • Ben details the planning and matchmaking for Real American Freestyle Wrestling’s new events, aired on Fox Nation.
    • "You have literally created a professional wrestling for us... It's doing insanely well on Fox Nation." (Cormier, 29:55)
• Bringing MMA Fighters Back to Wrestling:
  • The show lines up matches with MMA and wrestling legends—discussing Henry Cejudo vs. Urijah Faber, Michael Chandler, Bilal Muhammad, and Yoel Romero’s impressive display at 48 years old.
    • "So we've brought these MMA guys in and we've made some of them wrestle wrestlers. And that obviously is bad...only in the case of, like, Yoel Romero... he could still compete." (Askren, 31:27)
    • DC nervously jokes about the “child abuse” of matching MMA stars against elite wrestlers:
      • "We should call CPS... Matching these guys up with David Carr and freaking bro. Darion Caldwell wrestles Bo Bass and gets pinned in, like, 10 seconds." (Cormier, 32:32)
• Matchmaking Insights:
  • Ben explains the event is curated by a four-person team (himself, Willie, Lance Palmer, and Izzy), aiming for parity and compelling storylines.
    • "It's me, Willie, Lance Palmer, and Izzy. We get on the phone a couple times a week and... try to line them up." (Askren, 34:26)
• Star-building Parallels:
  • MMA and wrestling both need smart matchmaking and storylines.
    • "You have to have some type of storyline or plot..." (Askren, 33:41)

Notable and Light-Hearted Exchanges

• DC jokes about a future exhibition against Jon Jones:
  • "Real American freestyle wrestling is gonna see me and Jon Jones at some point and I'm gonna kick his ass." (Cormier, 37:36)
• Askren ribs DC about still having wrestling skills:
  • "You could take on Kobe Merrill, dude." (Askren, 37:51)

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6. Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Ben’s Health Crisis & Hospitalization: [00:23–05:31]
• Emotional Toll on Family & Friends: [08:36–09:31]
• UFC & The Star System/Khabib Discussion: [10:13–17:32]
• Personality vs. Dominance / “Best Personalities Need Rivals”: [19:36–20:31]
• The Psychology of Fear and Nerves in Competition: [23:40–28:56]
• Pro Wrestling Matchmaking Deep Dive: [29:25–36:32]
• Yoel Romero’s Dominance at 48: [35:45–36:16]
• Future Matches & DC’s Gauntlet for Jon Jones: [37:36–38:11]

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7. Memorable Quotes

• "Normal people would not have made it through that... There's a fight inside you that's much different than most people."
  — Daniel Cormier [06:14]
• "Sometimes I forget what happened... that lung transplant thing. That's a bitch."
  — Ben Askren [00:23]
• "Having courage or being fearless isn't about not actually having the fear. It's about being able to do the thing you want to do anyways."
  — Ben Askren [23:40]
• "Most of the people on the best personality list had a rival on the list also... they were all these ones where people would amplify each other."
  — Ben Askren [20:18]
• "You have to earn that ability to feel those nerves for something that's so damn important."
  — Daniel Cormier [27:16]

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8. Closing Tone

The episode is an open, sometimes emotional, but always lively dive into the personal and professional journeys of two former MMA champions. From medical miracles and the life-or-death experience of elite athletes, to the unpredictable alchemy of stardom, and the ongoing evolution of wrestling as a spectator sport, Ben and DC’s banter blends respect, irreverence, insight, and genuine care—for their craft and each other.

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For wrestling fans, MMA followers, or anyone interested in the intersection of high-performance sport and personal courage, this is a standout episode.

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[B]

The volume. Ben, you're, like, kind of looking like yourself now. Like, you know, for a while, I didn't know if you'd ever, like, start looking like yourself again.

[A]

Yeah, it was man bas. Well, it's been a while now. Um, it's funny when you start looking and feeling normal again, sometimes I forget what happened. Like, I'll just be doing shit around the house, and I'll just get all tired, and I'll be like, why am I tired? It's like, oh, yeah, that lung transplant thing, That's a bitch.

[B]

That's crazy. Hey, you know, it's been a while, guys. Welcome back to Funky and the Champ. I know Ben and I have not done this for a real long time, and obviously it's well documented what Ben went through. Ben, we were on air the week of the. The. The. The issue. That was the craziest thing. Like, you were excited to go to Vegas, and then when we go to Vegas, Vegas is a nightmare. You're gonna have, like, bad dreams about going to Vegas for the rest of your life now.

[A]

Ah, well, who knows? Maybe I'll never go again. I don't really have.

[B]

Never go. If that happened, I would never go to Vegas.

[A]

I don't think it's Vegas's fault. I think it was in the process of happening. I can't remember. We podcasted Monday or Tuesday that week. I left Tuesday. Luis is a date on there, but he doesn't have a day.

[B]

Yeah, May 27th, it was. We filmed on. Like, that was there Tuesday normally. We used to release on Wednesdays.

[A]

Yeah. And I went to the hospital for the first time on May 28, and I went back in on May 29. Is to my recollection. Yeah, I said that back pain. And I. I didn't think much of it. I thought it was a muscle sprain or a muscle spasm or something. And then. Well, you guys know the rest.

[B]

Ben, did you. Did you. Did you go back and look at us on the podcast when you were, like, kind of in your recovery, like, looking at you on those videos to see if you could see anything different? Like maybe, like, your skin color or anything looking different?

[A]

No. You know what made me sad, though? The last guy I worked out with was Rafael Lovato. He's a Duke Rufus affiliate.

[B]

Our Duke is a jujitsu guy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he's really good. He's awesome. He just comes over. He's actually wrestling for OCU. For NAI. He's like, 42. It's hilarious. Did you see that?

[B]

Yo, what is going on with that? Like, guys are just going. You guys are just opting back in the college. I don't understand how they're doing it.

[A]

It's so weird. But no. So I was working out with this dude, and he posted it after, and I got sad because I'm like, I might. I might. I may never do that again. Like, I literally. I really enjoy wrestling. I really enjoy tr. And like, that might be the last time. And. And I'm starting to feel like at least I'm gonna get to beat up on the little guys. I might not be wrestling the big guys again, but I'm gonna get beat up on the little guys at some point. But that one really made me sad that, like, that could have been the last time I ever did it.

[B]

That's crazy, man. Yeah, that's. That's so crazy. Hey, Ben, I know. I know you've talked about this ad nauseam, but, like, I have to ask you. For people that come to. To our podcast for. For answers. When did you recognize that it was not just a normal, like, never health scare?

[A]

I didn't.

[B]

You just went out? You just went out?

[A]

Yes. They're so. Hey, you know, they're making a movie about this, but about your.

[B]

About your experience.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're making a movie?

[A]

Not me. Someone contacted me. Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. It's gonna be a longer process, but no. So basically, I told you I was having those issues in my back. Finally, my wife bugged me when we were in Vegas. She's like, just go to the hot. Go to the hospital with me. Fine. And I was upset about it. And I got there and I was like, hey, man, I got a muscle spasm. I've had this muscle spasm before. My. All my vitals. I did all the vitals. Blood pressure, temperature, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Everything's fine, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, okay, I'll give you the. I'll give you the medicine for the muscle spasm. It's like a muscle relaxer. And I said, okay, cool. And I went home and I took it. I. But that night, I couldn't sleep. It was terrible. It didn't work at all. I was up all the time. And then. It's funny, I don't really remember this, but my wife has videos. I woke up and I was kind of, like, messed up looking. Like I got in a fight or something. Like, kind of had, like, swollen face stuff under my.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. And she had taped me sleeping and sent to a few of our doctor friends. And they're like, you need to get him to the hospital. And, Daniel, you know how stubborn I am. I'm almost as stubborn as you are. Almost.

[B]

You're more stubborn than me by far. You're way more stubborn than I am.

[A]

And I'm sure. I'm sure these videos will come up, but I'm like, dude, I'm fine. Just, I. Give me some coffee. Let me get my energy up. I want to go to the bitcoin conference. I'm not going to the hospital again. And I'm like, but if you. Like, I couldn't see myself at that point. But when you watch the video, you're like, oh, what's wrong with that guy? You know? Yeah. So she convinced me to go to the hospital. And it's funny, we. I had a friend and his wife with us, and she said she was worried I was going to bolt and go to the bitcoin conference, so she had them trail us to the Uber.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. Yes, I think. Who? My buddy Rye.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

We talked about that. Yeah. And then, dude, I went to the hospital, and I don't remember. I remember walking in the door. It was the same one I walked in the day before. And then. I don't remember anything for two months. No, it's like 40. 42 days or something like that. Yeah, a long time.

[B]

That's so crazy, man. That whole thing was so scary that I thought we'd never do this again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, I'm talking to Amy, dude, I gotta be honest. Like, I. I've met your wife, Obviously. You and I have been friends for a long time. Yeah, I've met your wife at the Olympics. I met her many, many times. I don't know if I'd had more than two conversations with her in my entire life. Yeah, bro, I bugged her so much. It must have been so annoying. It must have been. She, like. I don't even really know this guy. Yeah, he's, like, calling me and, like, texting me. Right? Like, I just. Everybody was so worried if you were.

[A]

Going to be okay, so.

[B]

Hey, you. Can I tell you. Can I tell you, I knew, first off, normal people would not have made it through that.

[A]

I mean, I. I almost didn't make it, Ben.

[B]

I don't think normal people would have made it. Like, they would have died because they don't have that thing that makes, like, elite athletes. Elite in most cases. Right. Like, there's a fight inside of you that's Much different than most people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's, you know, you start going down like that, man. You see people just kind of close their eyes and, and give up. And I'm pretty sure, you know, in those moments, obviously, even if you don't have control over it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your body's responding to the fight. Like you responded to so many fights over the course of your life.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I bet that probably helped. But over those 40 something days, I remember you and I sitting on your porch talking about. You're like, dude, I don't remember anything. Like, were there moments where you just kind of came out of it and then just kind of went back into like that?

[A]

No, I don't. I literally don't remember. I don't remember anything. But it's funny, actually, probably the. I will say a while after I woke up, I think when I woke up I was conscious and I was talking and. But now when I reflect on that time period, like, I can't remember much of it, you know, like when I actually woke up and I was actually, you know, I remember I was conscious and I thought I knew what I was doing and talking about. I would say it's some wild, like the, the. My favorite one I like, I'm totally out of my mind, of course, you know, is Keegan and Jacob, two of my old wrestlers came to visit me in the hospital one time. And I don't know why I was so mad that morning. They probably had me on drugs. I. I was so mad, I kept flipping off the nurses and I kept. They had me in jail and every time they leave the room, I'd be like, guys, you got to get me out of here. You kidnapping me? You got to get me out of here. And they're like, dude, no, you're cut. You're connected to so many wires, we can't get you out of here. I started calling names. I was like, you guys are. Get me out of here right now. You need to get me out of here.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Yes, I was just. I was acting totally nuts and so like, I like kind of remember that. And then like, Keegan reminded me of it and made me laugh and. Yeah, so there's a lot of stuff like that. But no, from the, the time where I was out, I don't, I don't remember anything. I've now, I've seen videos and a few other things, so, like, I kind of know some of the things, but I don't really know anything.

[B]

Does it make you, like, super sad to see, like, ah, man, I'VE been asking in you're strong. And then to see yourself that's that fragile. Because I gotta be honest, that probably was the hardest thing for me. When you forget, dude, those first couple videos back, oh, 30 some pounds.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

It was crazy.

[A]

I don't think so. I mean, obviously I'm gaining a lot of size and strength back. No, I mean, you know, honestly, the thing I think about that's the hardest is hopefully family cry on here. No, no. Well, actually, I mean, yes and no. But the fact that I didn't have to really go through it. I went to the hospital and. And then I woke up and that's it. I didn't know I almost died a whole bunch of times or I didn't have to make any decisions. I was out, you know, versus, like, I think about my wife having to come to hospital every day, not knowing her kids are gonna have their dad or, you know, I was thinking, one thing I was funny reflecting on was like, Coach Messenbrink and my brother coaching at the junior duels five miles away in Milwaukee while I'm here dying. And like, they don't know if I'm gonna, like, at that point, they didn't know if I was gonna make it or not, you know, so, like, all these people had to kind of go through life for a while with this on their mind. Like.

[B]

Heavy.

[A]

Oh, my God, that's so hard.

[B]

It's very heavy. Just not knowing if you. Yeah, it was crazy. But I tell you, I'm not going to sit on this too long because I know you've done it time and time again, but I might make them.

[A]

Interview you for the movie. You never know. I heard you got a few fans.

[B]

You know, I would do it. But hey, when I. I knew you'd be okay. When you cheated me in disc golf at your house and Amy's like, ben, you know you're cheating when you. Why did I cheat when you were rolling it down the hill? You're not supposed to do that. I didn't know that. What do you mean?

[A]

Disc golf courses have hills.

[B]

No, but you were like. You were. Instead of.

[A]

Yeah, listen, the hill helped me out quite a bit. That's a legal throw, though.

[B]

No, it isn't.

[A]

The roller is a legal throw.

[B]

You can't throw it down the hill to get it further than me, Ben.

[A]

Yes, you can.

[B]

Dude, I'm telling you, you're. You're a liar and a cheater. And I knew. I said, oh, this dude is going to be fine. After that, all Right, Ben, I'm gonna get off of this because obviously, you know, we're on this podcast because we love to do this podcast. We love to talk sports. Mma. Right. Mixed martial arts is the sport that you and I, maybe we didn't make our trade. It was our trade to make more money. Yeah, wrestled. But once we did mma, it's a worldwide sport. Massive. And it's growing and growing and growing. Khabib Nurmagomedov may be one of the biggest stars this sport has ever produced. The other day, he was doing one of his sit downs, and Khabib said the UFC prefers fighters who talk trash and sell fights. That hurts the guys that just want to compete, specifically Russian fighters who don't do that. Do you agree with Khabib that the UFC does kind of is more drawn to the person that is more loud and more. Look at me. Granted, Ben, the biggest example we have seen of this is Conor McGregor. It has not been replicated. People have tried, but outside of Conor, not many have really became big stars by just running their mouth.

[A]

Well, I mean, I don't. Well, Connor could fight also. He can really maybe did cocaine and stop training, but he did find Jesus. Amen, Connor. I hope he did.

[B]

Your thoughts on that?

[A]

We'll see. I did call him not fighting, but now it looks like he might. He found Jesus and Jesus is going to lead him back to the Octagon. Fighting in the White House, allegedly. So hopefully that happens. So, listen, this one happened to me. I mean, I can't say for certain why Dana kept me out of the UFC when I should have been in. In 2013, but this is the most likely reason. And it's not. It's not just trash talk.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's a myriad of things. It's your fighting style. He prefers strikers over wrestlers, for sure. That's been the case. It's your personality and charisma, which is not just trash talk. It's how someone carries themselves, the way they dress, the way they act, all these things. And at the day, it is a business. And, you know, I've had strong issue with that for many years, where the best fighters should be the best fighters. And that's what I was doing to try to prove I was the best. So, yes, I think there's a lot of merit to what Khabib is saying. But then the other tough part here is I don't know how he's going to change it. Like, I don't see Dana changing anytime soon. So what do you do about it?

[B]

You know, I think. I think he does have a point because the fans really do dictate who receives that push in most instances, because for as good as those guys are, like, certain guys, Sean o' Malley was such a lightning rod and people were so drawn to him and that he got that push. Patty Pimlet, Patty Pimblett. People are just drawn to it, really. There's no rhyme or reason as to why people are, like, drawn to certain people. Because Patty does a dance on the way to the cage and he's got funny hair. He's got funny hair. He does a dance on the way to the cage as a very catchy song. And he just goes and fights. He talks a little bit, but he's not over the top and talks as much as some of these other guys talk. But people are drawn to him. And look, now he's fighting for the belt when. When. Honestly, I don't know if there's ever been a more clear, clear number one contender than Arman Tsarukian. Like, I mean, Arman Tsarukian is so clearly the number one contender, but he isn't like that. People aren't drawn to him in that way. So, I mean, that's. That. That's a real example of it. Right in your face.

[A]

Yeah. And then, yeah, I want to say he missed weight or something. And Dana was. He did not, you know, this way, though.

[B]

He had that injury pulled out of the fight the night before the event in Los Angeles.

[A]

Yeah. So people, you know, people were debating that. So I think there's some merit to that also. Yeah. And, you know, it's what's funny because you're talking about. Now you're talking about building stars. I think this is the most fascinating thing because there is no great formula. The guy who I was traded from for.

[B]

Demetrius Johnson.

[A]

Demetrius Johnson, Listen, he was, if you like watching fights, he was an elite fighter. He had a fun style, he did fun moves, but for whatever reason, he couldn't catch on. I don't know why he would always.

[B]

Fight and defend his championship on tv.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He wasn't even on pay per views.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know why. So, like, okay, he. He's smart, he's funny, he's got a big YouTube following, he has a dynamic fighting style, but he couldn't catch on. So building stars is kind of those things that it's like, it's almost mysterious. Like, how does certain people catch on to your point? Petty, Pimble, and there have been other guys who've been pushed. You know, McGregor's the biggest. OMalley's a really big one. You know, someone like, even like Kevin Holland, like, he's caught on and he's pretty popular. Is he a superstar? No, but he's pretty popular. And why? Just, I guess because he says funny things and he goes and fights like you never.

[B]

Derrick Lewis, Derek Lew, great example. But he knocks people out too, though. Derek Lewis also knocked people out.

[A]

But he has had some really boring fights, too.

[B]

Yes, he's had some bad ones. Look. Yeah, there's a difference.

[A]

He said my balls were hot. That was what everyone like.

[B]

Yeah. That it got him a title fight.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was so happy. Some of these guys. Some of these guys. Actually, no, we're talking about elite. Patty Pimblett, Sean O', Malley, Conor McGregor. Those guys have proven to be elite, and they do that. The other two we mentioned, Lewis and. And to. I mean, Derrick Lewis to a lesser degree, but Kevin Holland is more popular than his success inside the Octagon. But it's still the Diaz brothers, right?

[A]

Great one.

[B]

Weren't necessarily elite, but they were.

[A]

Listen, Nate. Nate Diaz, he is the most puzzled. He's not. I don't even think he's that good. I'll go get his record if you want me to. But he has convinced people he is good at fighting somehow, some way.

[B]

Pretty good.

[A]

I'm going to go get his damn record. Daniel. It's not.

[B]

But he won the Ultimate Fighter. He won the Ultimate Fighter. I'm saying he was good for the time that he was fighting.

[A]

No, he wasn't. He was average.

[B]

He was. Yeah, okay. I'm just.

[A]

Okay, I'm going to go get the record. I'm going to. With the record. They're going to yell at me. I know this. Okay, let's see. He's. His record is 21 and 13.

[B]

Oh, my God. Really?

[A]

Yes. That's not that great.

[B]

Okay, I take it back. I'm taking it back.

[A]

And he was so. Yeah. And going into the UFC, he was. I think it was five and one. So within the UFC, he was 16 and 12.

[B]

That's not good.

[A]

That's not very good.

[B]

That's. That's not good. There. There. There's really no way to twist that into good.

[A]

Yeah. So. But, you know, he made his personality. That's another one's like, how did his personality catch on? He says funny things sometimes a little bit different.

[B]

He.

[A]

You know, I don't. Yeah. And listen, if you post this clip. Please don't post this clip because The Diaz army will attack me. He has some fans who are rabid. If you say something bad about them, they will come at you. Why?

[B]

This is like. This is a great clip. You asking not to post the clip.

[A]

Don't post it.

[B]

They're gonna tell me there's still some fighting.

[A]

Ben Askren, I hope you ain't got no lungs left. I hope your lungs die. They're gonna say. They're gonna say, mean to me.

[B]

Believe some of the shit people say, bro.

[A]

I posted. Danny, you know what I posted? Now, I don't get to politics, but I posted. I think this is obvious, but I posted. Young people only like socialism because they're not old enough to figure out how bad the government is at everything. Listen, the socialists, they're like, f you. I can't believe you got lungs. I hate you. I can't believe anyone donated.

[B]

Really.

[A]

You, I hope you die. Like, literally the most comments I've ever seen about anything ever. And the next is Nate Diaz.

[B]

Dude, it's crazy. Okay, so now it's pretty clear, right? We agree it does help. But here's the deal. Khabib, was he. Did he succeed despite the system? Like, I mean, yeah, he was insanely popular.

[A]

Very popular.

[B]

But he did kind of have that personality, right?

[A]

Yeah, he's funny.

[B]

You helped him, of course, him in Islam. But he would say stuff like, I will smash your chicken in the middle of the octagon about Conor McGregor or Khabib just being Russian. Right. When he was telling Michael Johnson, you need to submit, brother. I deserve the title fight in the cage. Then there's an interview with him and Ariel Helwani in Madison Square Garden. It is the funniest interview I have ever heard. And Luis, I want you to clip some of the stuff this man said in that interview. But he's not talking trash. He's literally just being himself. And it was drawing people into him. But I don't think anything is more of an attraction than dominance. Dominance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is what may be the. Because, hold on.

[A]

What about. What about. What about Demetrius Johnson, though?

[B]

I get it. But Anderson Silva did not talk.

[A]

He was so. He was. I mean, he still is like, such a unique that I love Tyrone, but that movie did the. Tyron where he did the fake knee, did the uppercut. Like, yeah, Tyron totally bit on the knee. But you can't knee someone in boxing. It's like, holy Harrison, what you think of that one?

[B]

Jon Jones doesn't talk trash.

[A]

Yeah, but he didn't catch on for a while. I mean, he was dynamic and he won a lot. Honestly, you were kind of what made him catch on, because there was. And it was funny. I always get mad because you're. No offense, I don't make your head too big here. Like, you're just a good dude, right? People hated you and they took John's side on it. And I know, I have no idea why. It was like the wildest thing ever, but you two going against each other and actually on this topic, specific topic front. O' Brien and I did a show a long time ago, we're talking about best personalities, and it was funny. Most of the people on the best personality list had a rival on the list also. Right?

[B]

Yeah. You always amplify them.

[A]

So Khabib and Connor. Right, the amplification, you and John. And they were all these ones where people would amplify each other. And I thought that was. I didn't plan for that to happen, but once we did it, I was like, oh, my God, that's really interesting.

[B]

Yeah, you. You kind of need a dance partner in those instances. I agree with Khabib to a point, but I think that overall dominance, I think that if you're dominant and you just have a few breaks, you can do pretty much anything in this game. I don't know that they go, this guy can talk, let's push him. I think the fans choose more than the UFC actually chooses who they get behind. All right, guys, today's show is brought to you by our new sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. Hard Rock Bet is a top rated sportsbook app. It might just take the belt from any other sportsbook app that you use once you open it up and you see it for yourself. And guys, if you haven't tried your first bet on Hard Rock Bet, there's still time for you to get 150 in bonus bets if you win. So place a $5 bet. If that bet hits, you, not only get your winnings, but you get $150 in bonus bets right away. Guys, today is a great day to try the Hard Rock Bet sports app. So it's not just a welcome offer. You can get bonus bets. You can get parlay insurance and other rewards. The rewards in the promos are non stop, so download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets is not a cash offer. Offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida, offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC in all other states. You must be 21 or older and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, or Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida, call 1-888-A-D M I T I T in Indiana. If you are someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-809-with it. And if you have a gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER with CarGurus Discover, you can skip the filters and describe what you're looking for in your own words. Simply type what you want and CarGurus discover instantly surfaces real listings that match your exact needs. It's no wonder CarGurus is the 1 most visited car shopping site according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. Buy or sell your next car today with [e-mail] Go to cargurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C A R G U R U S cargurus.com hey, Justin Gaethje's fighting for the interim title against Patty Pimblett. Justin Gaethje, when talking about the Patty Pimblett fights, very excited. Obviously, he's one of my friends. He's a great dude. But looking forward, Justin said he loves how scared he would be if he got to fight Ilot Toria, and he hopes that that fight happens. How different is that mindset, though, Ben, that something that fears you so much also is the same thing that ultimately excites you? How do you tell people that? How do you explain that to people?

[A]

Man, I just, I just read a great quote about this today. I wish I would have memorized it. I'll give you the gist of it, but essentially said having courage or being fearless isn't about not actually having the fear. It's about being able to do the thing you want to do anyways, right? Yeah, I think that's what a lot of us fighters or combat athletes have figured out how to do is like there, where there's danger, there's opportunity, right? So where there's a chance for me to get beat up or lose or get humiliated, there's also an opportunity. And so I always tell my wrestlers, like, if you want to go wrestle someone who sucks, there's zero danger in you losing. Like, they're not as good as you. You're not going to lose ever. But where's the opportunity? If you just wrestle guys who suck all the time, you're never going to better. You got to be willing to put it on the line. You got to kind of enjoy putting it on the line. So I love the Justin Gaethje mindset.

[B]

I Like his mindset. I think Justin Gaethj is an absolute savage. I think that the fight between him and Patty Pimblet is very, very tough. I thought the way that Pimblet fought against Michael Chandler was. I don't think I've ever seen him better. I don't think he's. I've ever seen him more aggressive, more nasty. But I do understand what he's saying about Ilia Toria because Ilia has shown an ability to put people out that don't get put out. The way he knocked out Max Holloway was crazy, bro. The way that he knocked out Charles Oliveira was crazy. Charles was down and out before he even hit the ground after Ilya hit him with the right hand. I love that because I remember as I think back on my career, I don't know if I've ever been more nervous in my life than the NCAA finals, right? But I think I was so nervous because I was like, man, if I get this done, I can create history. Kenny Monday walked up and goes, you look kind of scared. I was like, I am so nervous. I said, but honestly, I live for those nerves, you know? Then when you get to fighting, it's like if those nerves didn't show themselves, I would get scared that I wasn't prepared to compete at the level that I needed to compete at. Because I realized as I got older that those nerves I felt as a 21 year old kid about to wrestle the NCAA final, I didn't quite understand them. I didn't understand that they weren't fear nerves, they were all competitive nerves. And there's a difference, there's a difference in handling those nerves. Whereas I told Kenny, I go, if I can get this done, I make history. So, yes, I am nervous, but I wasn't quite. I didn't understand as much as I did as I went through my fights. And so some days when I was fighting and I felt so ready and I'm in the back and I'm just too, too relaxed, I would find ways to make sure I drew those emotions out, out of me. Because to me, that was my indicator. That, boy, you're ready to go and kill someone.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. I love, I mean, I love it and I miss it. I don't get to compete anymore. I mean, I have a dude. Isn't it in a bunch of years? Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, you know, what's your competitor? I always said the thing I missed most when I retired is just that feeling. Like if you could, If I could get that feeling of walking to the cage or walking to the mat. If I get that feeling every day when I woke up in the morning, my life would be so great, you know? But you don't get it. You have. You have to earn those feelings, and once they're gone.

[B]

Oh, that's great, Ben. That's great, Ben. Yeah, that's great. You have to earn that feeling. Yeah, you have to earn that. You have to earn that. You have to earn that ability to feel those nerves for something that's so damn important, to stand on the verge. I always say, dude, like Josh Thompson asked me, he goes, how good does it feel to watch those guys achieve greatness? I go, dude, when I sit next to that octagon, to watch people just chase down something that's so big is insane. I think Justin understands that. Justin understands that. Man. If I go get this dude that hasn't been beat, that is supposed to be unstoppable, who has shown so many things, it's like, it's motivation for guys like Justin, like myself, like you. But it also brings me to this one. Like, do you think, like, Ilya brings about a fear that some other fighters don't?

[A]

Well, I think when there's that idea that you can get put out right away and it's one shot, I think you have to have that. And. But that's, you know, kind of along those lines of if you really let that. If you fear that too much, that's gonna be super negative to your performance. You have to accept that that's the case, then go. Go do it anyways. And then, you know, he's not the only fighter like, that. There's, you know, like, one guy you fought, Anthony Johnson, rest in peace. I mean, he hit people hard, and it's, you know, so there's like, that fear of, like, it's a fear, such a balance of recognition, like, hey, this guy can put me out. So I got to be a little more careful, honestly. I'll tell you, I didn't really think George could hurt me that much. And I think, you know, kind of. You said your nerves get dulled.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

At that point, I'd been in the octagon so many times. I'd been in practice so many times. I had never really got rocked or hurt in practice or anything, you know, so it was like I was almost dull to it. And so maybe I should have been a little more nervous, you know, I probably should have been. So I do think that's. That's important to kind of, like, recognize and have that balance to not disregard the threat, but kind of keep it in your mind.

[B]

You know, we, we're turning the corner here. We're going to end here in a little bit. But last thing before we go back in the day, before we done, we said we wanted to do like Funky's corner, where you got a chance to talk about stuff that matter to you. I'm changing it. Let's do a block where we talk. Just real American freestyle wrestling. I love it because the job that you guys have done to me is amazing. You have literally created a professional wrestling for us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The die hard wrestling fan. It's on tv. It's doing insanely well on Fox Nation. And you guys have put together some really good matches. One match in particular I want to talk about though. Henry Cejudo's back wrestling. Uriah. First off, let me tell you something. Henry Cejudo does not know how to retire.

[A]

He's worse than me.

[B]

How many times have you retired? Like, retire? Twice, Three times, fighting and wrestling, right?

[A]

Yeah, well, I know I, I didn't leave my shoes on the mat, Daniel. Hey, who's that? Who's that? I did one time because that's a Steve Mako line. He said, did you see me leave my shoes on them?

[B]

Oh, so that's why he's coming back, because he's wrestling?

[A]

Yeah, he's wrestling. So awesome.

[B]

Okay. I retired once from wrestling, once from fighting. How many times did you retire?

[A]

Well, 2017. I retired with a caveat that would come back if I got the fighting better than me. I retired from UC in 2019, and then I took that boxing match. I never, ever have retired from wrestling. I took a. What? I probably after I really, like, retired. I probably had what, four matches, I think, or five matches. Yeah, I was hoping to wrestle in this thing, but I don't know.

[B]

I've been telling your ass to stop wrestling. I saw you in the garage wrestling with Kellen. I'm like, dude, don't wrestle. You can't wrestle.

[A]

Wrestling, it's the best.

[B]

Cejudo versus Faber. With your position in the company, can you actually discuss who you think is going to win?

[A]

I don't, I'm, I've never been asked that, but I don't, I don't see why not. You know, it's, it's. We've brought these MMA guys in and we've made some of them wrestle wrestlers. And that obviously is bad. I mean, only in the case of, like, Yoel Romero, who was legit world class, he could still compete. But the majority of these guys, if they've only done MMA and maybe a little bit of wrestling, they can't wrestle on the elite wrestlers level, you know? That being said, someone like Michael Chandler, he was a good wrestler, but hasn't wrestled a ton in the ufc, he still look good. I don't know how much Henry wrestles have. Henry was an Olympic champion. He was literally as good as it gets. But that was. Oh, we're all done. That was 17 years ago.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was a long time ago.

[A]

So I don't know how well he can still wrestle. You know, his peak was much above Uriah's. Uriah looks like he stays in great shape. He competes frequently.

[B]

Uriah still competes.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm very interested to see. Obviously, I was lean towards Henry because of the credentials, but I'm curious to see how good Uriah looks.

[B]

I'm excited about this matchup because, dude, I was so scared about who Henry was going to wrestle. Can I be honest with you? After watching the MMA guys compete against the wrestlers, I was like, yo, first off, they got to stop. I mean, Bilal Muhammad wrestling David Carr is crazy. I don't know if you. They don't need money, so I know they just want to do it because they love wrestling. But that's. That's a dude. You guys are so ridiculous. Like, we should call cps. I should call child protective Services. I should call you guys. Matching these guys up with David Carr and freaking bro. Darion Caldwell wrestles Bo Bass and gets pinned in, like, 10 seconds. This is the craziest. I just. I can't understand it. But my fear, right, was that Henry was going to end up wrestling Bo Bassett.

[A]

No. No way.

[B]

So let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. You. I mean, does Henry beat Bobby right now?

[A]

Bobas is really, really good at wrestling. I don't know how good Henry is. Listen, if Henry wants to wrestle more than one match, where. We'd love to have him wrestle one more than one match.

[B]

Do not put him in that with Bo Bassett, bro.

[A]

Well, listen, if he wins a few matches, we got to keep bumping him up, right? I mean, that's the thing. Like, you know, you're building stars. The UFC is like, well, you. You have to have some type of storyline or plot. And so, I don't know, maybe Henry does one match. It's in Phoenix in his hometown. He wants to kind of go out with a bang, something like that. But maybe, I don't know, maybe he likes to wrestle and he wants to Wrestle some more. And we give him a couple of matches. And after your riot, maybe wrestles. Look at Darren Caldwell, right? And then he keeps bumping up a.

[B]

Little bit, but Darion Caldwell got pinned by Bowen. Like, I mean, that was crazy. I did. I mean, how did a really stupid move.

[A]

I don't know what he was trying to do. When he tried pulling it back, that was really a bad idea.

[B]

Insane. Insane. Ben. So who's matchmaking this event? Do you? Matchmaking?

[A]

Yeah. We have a group of four of us. I believe it's public. It's me, Willie, Lance Palmer, and Izzy. And we just to, you know, get on the phone a couple times a week and, you know, kind of look couple down the line. So we have Miami, January 10th. This weekend, we have Tempe, February 28th. We have a March 28th. The venue is not officially locked down, so I can't say that one yet, but we're doing one show a month on Fox Nation. And yeah, so we kind of try to line them up. And obviously, like, April, May, June, we're gonna have to be careful with our wrestlers because they're have the trials and the open and the final X. So, you know, I'm going to try to do what you're advising here. I want to try to have some of these MMA guys, just MMA guys. So it's more even. Yeah, like, Bal. You know, Bilal, he actually wrestled David Carr pretty tough compared to what I thought was going to happen. For real.

[B]

He got beat 10 0, didn't he?

[A]

Listen, I didn't think it was going to last that long. I actually was kind of impressed in a few of his defenses. So we'll match him up against someone else who is, you know, a more similar skill level for wrestling. And, you know, like you said, I think they don't need to do it for the money. They do it because they enjoy wrestling and they enjoy. They love it. Yeah. So, yeah, so we. And we just announced Micaiah versus Bryce Meredith. And, you know, the thing that I've been most fascinated by so far to this point was Yoel Romero. I like, dude.

[B]

How good was he?

[A]

Holy crap. Well, I was. So I thought of him because we were thinking about what matchups could we give Bo Nickel? And we wanted a big name, and we want someone had good credentials because Bo is really good wrestling, you know, and so I said, yoel. And so we matched them up initially, and then Bo had like, a minor injury and had to pull out. And I was like, damn, is Yoel gonna get beat by Pat Downey. Because Pat was on the world team only a few years ago.

[B]

Yeah, it was not long ago.

[A]

Wasn't super long ago. And Yoel's 48 years old. I know how good he was. But Yoel kicked his ass. It was bad. Impressive. Holy moly.

[B]

Romero was wrestling like the rule set. Like, he still trains the rule set. That's what was most impressive to me. I'm like, yo, this dude's wrestling like he still wrestles.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My boy Luke Rockhold's wrestling this weekend.

[A]

That's one. You think he could beat Colby or. No?

[B]

He's been sending me videos of his wrestling. Sending me. Yes. Of him training. So he's been working out, he's been preparing. He's. We got a few tricks about his lead for Kobe Covington.

[A]

He should have a little size advantage though, right?

[B]

He's going to be bigger.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I mean, there's a lot of. Yeah. I don't know, man. Colby's a good wrestler. Colby's a two time All American, but.

[A]

That'S one where Colby. I know he. So, like, you know what a great example of this is for ref. The difference between MMA and wrestling. If you watch Michael Chandler versus Chad Mendez. Chad Mendez, both good wrestlers. Now, defensively, you can usually maintain your defense, but in rest, in mma, you generally don't shoot to a knee. Both those guys couldn't shoot through anymore, so they couldn't get past the other one's defense. Really. And so it's like if Colby hasn't been shooting to a knee, which he hasn't, Right. And he's probably a little bit younger than me, I will say 15 years. Like, that's a skill that kind of goes away with your timing, so it can make things a lot harder.

[B]

I told, I, I, I'm telling you, Real American freestyle wrestling is gonna see me and Jon Jones at some point and I'm gonna kick his ass.

[A]

Like, you would never leave.

[B]

Because guess what? I still shoot because I still train wrestlers every single day.

[A]

You could take on Kobe Merrill, dude.

[B]

He was so strong.

[A]

Why did he get so big?

[B]

Cody, he's huge. He's good, though. He's the man. So big. Son of a bitch. Hey, guys, thank you for watching Funky and the Champ. Hey, this weekend, Real American Freestyle wrestling is on Fox Nation that Saturday, right? January 10th.

[A]

Saturday, January 10th.

[B]

Saturday, January the 10th. Make sure you guys watch it and make sure you guys always tap into Funky and the Champ. For Ben, I'm D.C. ben. It's nice to have you back, my brother. Great to see you back from the dead, my boy. Ben Askren. Until next time. Peace.

[A]

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