Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

The Daniel Cormier Show (Funky & The Champ): Ben Askren & Daniel Cormier on Askren’s Double Lung Transplant Recovery, DC vs. Jon Jones, Khabib, and Wrestling

Date: January 6, 2026

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging episode, Ben Askren and Daniel Cormier reunite after a long hiatus following Askren’s harrowing double lung transplant. The duo, with their signature humor and honesty, dive into Ben’s health battle, the realities of recovering as a former elite athlete, and the emotional impact on their families and friends. The conversation then pivots to major MMA talking points—trash talk, star power in the UFC, dominance vs. personality, Khabib’s claims about the fight game, and the mystery of what makes a star. The latter half explores the resurgence of pro-style American freestyle wrestling, matchmaking, and upcoming high-profile exhibition matches, as well as playful debate about DC vs. Jon Jones on the wrestling mat.

1. Ben Askren’s Double Lung Transplant & Recovery

[00:05–10:13]

Key Points

• Physical & Emotional Rollercoaster:
  • Ben shares how surreal it is to feel normal again, often forgetting what his body has endured.
    • "Sometimes I forget what happened... I'll just be doing shit around the house, get all tired, and I'll be like, why am I tired?... Oh, yeah, that lung transplant thing." (Askren, 00:23)
• Vegas Health Scare:
  • The near-fatal health crisis began around a regular trip to Vegas, with back pain mistaken for muscle strain. He thanks his wife for forcing him to go to the hospital.
    • "I told you I was having those issues in my back... my wife bugged me when we were in Vegas. She's like, just go to the hospital..." (Askren, 03:34)
• Muddled Memories:
  • Ben recalls the last seconds before being hospitalized, and then losing all memory for about 42 days.
    • "I remember walking in the door.... I don't remember anything for two months. No, it's like 40, 42 days or something like that." (Askren, 05:15)
• Heartfelt Anecdotes:
  • Ben describes emotional moments watching old training videos and doubting he'd ever wrestle again.
    • "I might not be wrestling the big guys again, but I'm gonna get beat up on the little guys at some point. But that one really made me sad that, like, that could have been the last time I ever did it." (Askren, 02:32)
• Family & Friends’ Ordeal:
  • On the hardest part:
    • "The fact that I didn't have to really go through it... I was out... I think about my wife having to come to hospital every day, not knowing her kids are gonna have their dad..." (Askren, 08:36)
• Support System:
  • DC recalls checking in relentlessly with Askren’s wife and the MMA community’s fear for his survival.
    • "Bro, I bugged her so much... Everybody was so worried if you were going to be okay..." (Cormier, 05:37)
• Resilience as an Athlete:
  • Cormier credits Askren’s athletic grit for his survival.
    • "Normal people would not have made it through that....There's a fight inside you..." (Cormier, 06:14)
• Humorous Signs of Recovery:
  • Lighthearted stories about Ben “cheating” in disc golf—proof to DC that he was on the mend.
    • "I knew you'd be okay. When you cheated me in disc golf at your house..." (Cormier, 09:41)

2. Trash Talk, Personality, and Star Power in the UFC

[10:13–17:32]

Key Points

• Khabib’s Critique:
  • Khabib argues the UFC rewards trash talk over pure talent, especially disadvantaging quieter fighters (i.e., Russians).
    • "He said the UFC prefers fighters who talk trash and sell fights. That hurts the guys that just want to compete..." (Cormier paraphrasing Khabib, 10:13)
• Askren’s Experience:
  • Ben discusses possible reasons why Dana White kept him out of the UFC in 2013—not just trash talk, but fighting style and marketability.
    • "It's a myriad of things. It's your fighting style. He prefers strikers over wrestlers, for sure... It's your personality and charisma..." (Askren, 12:08)
• Mystery of Stardom:
  • The co-hosts list cases like Sean O’Malley, Paddy Pimblett, Demetrious Johnson, and Nate Diaz.
    • "Building stars is kind of those things... it's almost mysterious. Like, how do certain people catch on...?" (Askren, 14:40)
• Notable Quotes and Examples:
  • On one-liners:
    • "He said my balls were hot. That was what everyone like." (Askren about Derrick Lewis, 15:32)
  • On Nate Diaz:
    • "Nate Diaz... has convinced people he is good at fighting somehow, some way." (Askren, 16:05)
  • Revealing his record:
    • "His record is 21 and 13." (Askren, 16:36)
    • "But, you know, he made his personality. That's another one... How did his personality catch on?" (Askren, 16:58)
• Fans vs. Promotion:
  • DC and Ben agree that while the UFC gives some push, it’s really the fans who decide star status.
    • "I think the fans choose more than the UFC actually chooses who they get behind." (Cormier, 20:31)

3. Dominance vs. Personality in Building a Star

[17:32–20:31]

Key Points

• Dominance Is Magnetic:
  • DC argues nothing attracts fans like clear dominance—pointing to Khabib, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, etc.
• The Rival Factor:
  • Askren adds that major personalities need a rival—Conor/Khabib, DC/Jones, etc.—to amplify the drama.
    • "Most of the people on the best personality list had a rival on the list also...they would amplify each other." (Askren, 20:18)
• Jon Jones’ Rise:
  • Ben credits DC’s rivalry for amplifying public interest in Jon Jones.
    • "Honestly, you were kind of what made him catch on." (Askren, 19:36)
• DC’s View:
  • "Overall dominance... if you're dominant and you just have a few breaks, you can do pretty much anything in this game..." (Cormier, 20:31)

4. Fear, Competition, and the Fighter’s Mindset

[23:40–28:56]

Key Points

• Justin Gaethje’s Outlook:
  • Conversation about Gaethje’s excitement to face intimidating opponents—a paradoxical attraction to fear.
    • "He loves how scared he would be if he got to fight Ilot Toria, and he hopes that that fight happens." (Cormier, 23:40)
• Handling Nerves:
  • Both describe the essential difference between fear and competitive nerves.
    • "Having courage or being fearless isn't about not actually having the fear. It's about being able to do the thing you want to do anyways..." (Askren, 23:40)
    • "If those nerves didn't show themselves, I would get scared that I wasn't prepared to compete..." (Cormier, 25:35)
• Earning the Rush:
  • Ben and DC reflect on missing the unique adrenaline and meaning only real competition provides.
    • "If I could get that feeling of walking to the cage or walking to the mat, if I get that feeling every day... my life would be so great, you know? But you don't get it. You have to earn those feelings..." (Askren, 26:49)
    • "You have to earn that ability to feel those nerves for something that's so damn important..." (Cormier, 27:16)
• Danger and Opportunity:
  • On facing hard punchers: "Where there's danger, there's opportunity... you gotta kind of enjoy putting it on the line." (Askren, 24:31)

5. The Resurgence of American Freestyle Wrestling & Matchmaking

[29:25–38:10]

Key Points

• Pro Wrestling Showcases on TV:
  • Ben details the planning and matchmaking for Real American Freestyle Wrestling’s new events, aired on Fox Nation.
    • "You have literally created a professional wrestling for us... It's doing insanely well on Fox Nation." (Cormier, 29:55)
• Bringing MMA Fighters Back to Wrestling:
  • The show lines up matches with MMA and wrestling legends—discussing Henry Cejudo vs. Urijah Faber, Michael Chandler, Bilal Muhammad, and Yoel Romero’s impressive display at 48 years old.
    • "So we've brought these MMA guys in and we've made some of them wrestle wrestlers. And that obviously is bad...only in the case of, like, Yoel Romero... he could still compete." (Askren, 31:27)
    • DC nervously jokes about the “child abuse” of matching MMA stars against elite wrestlers:
      • "We should call CPS... Matching these guys up with David Carr and freaking bro. Darion Caldwell wrestles Bo Bass and gets pinned in, like, 10 seconds." (Cormier, 32:32)
• Matchmaking Insights:
  • Ben explains the event is curated by a four-person team (himself, Willie, Lance Palmer, and Izzy), aiming for parity and compelling storylines.
    • "It's me, Willie, Lance Palmer, and Izzy. We get on the phone a couple times a week and... try to line them up." (Askren, 34:26)
• Star-building Parallels:
  • MMA and wrestling both need smart matchmaking and storylines.
    • "You have to have some type of storyline or plot..." (Askren, 33:41)

Notable and Light-Hearted Exchanges

• DC jokes about a future exhibition against Jon Jones:
  • "Real American freestyle wrestling is gonna see me and Jon Jones at some point and I'm gonna kick his ass." (Cormier, 37:36)
• Askren ribs DC about still having wrestling skills:
  • "You could take on Kobe Merrill, dude." (Askren, 37:51)

6. Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Ben’s Health Crisis & Hospitalization: [00:23–05:31]
• Emotional Toll on Family & Friends: [08:36–09:31]
• UFC & The Star System/Khabib Discussion: [10:13–17:32]
• Personality vs. Dominance / “Best Personalities Need Rivals”: [19:36–20:31]
• The Psychology of Fear and Nerves in Competition: [23:40–28:56]
• Pro Wrestling Matchmaking Deep Dive: [29:25–36:32]
• Yoel Romero’s Dominance at 48: [35:45–36:16]
• Future Matches & DC’s Gauntlet for Jon Jones: [37:36–38:11]

7. Memorable Quotes

• "Normal people would not have made it through that... There's a fight inside you that's much different than most people."
  — Daniel Cormier [06:14]
• "Sometimes I forget what happened... that lung transplant thing. That's a bitch."
  — Ben Askren [00:23]
• "Having courage or being fearless isn't about not actually having the fear. It's about being able to do the thing you want to do anyways."
  — Ben Askren [23:40]
• "Most of the people on the best personality list had a rival on the list also... they were all these ones where people would amplify each other."
  — Ben Askren [20:18]
• "You have to earn that ability to feel those nerves for something that's so damn important."
  — Daniel Cormier [27:16]

8. Closing Tone

The episode is an open, sometimes emotional, but always lively dive into the personal and professional journeys of two former MMA champions. From medical miracles and the life-or-death experience of elite athletes, to the unpredictable alchemy of stardom, and the ongoing evolution of wrestling as a spectator sport, Ben and DC’s banter blends respect, irreverence, insight, and genuine care—for their craft and each other.

For wrestling fans, MMA followers, or anyone interested in the intersection of high-performance sport and personal courage, this is a standout episode.