← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis - Knicks-Pacers & Wolves-Thunder reactions + 2016 Warriors & Game 6 Klay Thompson stories
00:54:07
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- [00:00]
Draymond Green
This is an Iheart podcast, okay? Have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And Degree listened. That doesn't happen often.
- [00:14]
Baron Davis
They admitted that they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and and other stores for under $4.
- [00:32]
Draymond Green
So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local stores to try the OG Cool Rush for yourself.
- [00:37]
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- [01:09]
Draymond Green
The Volume what's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green show with my brother, bd. What's happening?
- [01:23]
Baron Davis
My dog lost my voice, bro. How you doing, my bro?
- [01:28]
Draymond Green
I'm good, brother. You know, I'm just, I'm chilling, taking the off season in. Got to, you know, get up there and get a little bump with the inside. The NBA guys, it's always, always fun to get up there, man. The guy's so legendary. So that was fun checking these series out, bro. You know, nothing much, man.
- [01:47]
Baron Davis
I'm good, bro.
- [01:48]
Draymond Green
But since you want to get into your Knicks tape, I quite honestly think the series is over.
- [01:56]
Baron Davis
How about you, man? I still got hope. Look, I'm a firm believer it's one game at a time. You going back to the Garden? You've been in all these games. You let two of them slip away. So you can't rely on nothing on the pass. You just. I come out and dominate at home, and I haven't seen the Knicks do that yet for a full 48 minutes. I do like the substitution with Mitchell Robinson and Josh Hart. I don't like the timing of it, but from a matchup standpoint, I think it saves Josh Hart some minutes, which makes him a little bit stronger. And it also Gives Mitchell Robinson some minutes that he can get off to a good start. Get them some easy buckets. The way you have to look at it at this point is we going home, we gotta win game five. That's it.
- [02:50]
Draymond Green
You mentioned twice going home to the Garden. It's kind of just a feeling I've had in playing there, I don't think. And you've played her, so maybe you could say differently. But I personally don't think going to the Garden serves you like it does you any justice, because does the Garden get loud? Yes, of course. Like, the fans, the Knicks fans are dying for success, so of course it gets loud. But I personally just don't think there's much of a home court at the Garden. And the reason I feel that way is not because where most teams have, like, issues or a lot of some teams have issues, where, you know, if the warriors are in town, it sound more like a Steph Curry home game than it does a road game. Or like, you know, Lakers fans travel, right? Like, some fan bases travel, the Knicks fans travel. Right? So, like, not even from that standpoint of the fans, but the Garden is such a show. Like, it's the Mecca, it's the Garden. And when I step in the Garden, I'm like, oh, like, this is it. Like, I'm putting on the show. So you're almost not even phased by the crowd or how loud it can get, because you so into the moment, into the stage. Like, the Garden is like one of a couple arenas where you can't see the crowd. Like, if you look out into the crowd, it's dark. The spotlight is on the court, and you feel that and you going to put on the show. And, you know, the celebrities are there, so I don't think they get much of a boost by going. But just going back to the Garden because guess what? Tyrese Halliburton is like, yo, I got a chance to put these boys away in the Garden, like, with spikes in there. And so you kind of get that same boost from playing at the Garden that the whole team can get, in my opinion.
- [04:43]
Baron Davis
Yeah, I mean, most of it I agree with just looking. When I went to the Garden, it was always like, hey, man, this is Broadway. You get that level of confidence, that level of showmanship, right? But as a Knick, you plant in the Garden, you get the hit first. It's a hit first mentality. And so a lot of times when people living in that essence, if you come out aggressive, you have to establish your level of aggression. And I think that is advantageous to the Knicks because if you look at overall physicality in the series, they've been kind of bullied, so to speak. And the retaliation when the Knicks make a comeback is the Knicks start bullying, start playing bully ball. But I think what's holding the Knicks back is the silliness, right? The unnecessary fouls, the getting in the bonus early. Right. Allowing Indiana to get in the bonus early, but the silly fouls, off ball fouls, boxing out fouls, and then the turnover. So hopefully, hopefully both teams get to feel that Broadway essence and that Broadway presence. I think the Knicks coming out with a hit first mentality and a do or die mentality on their home floor should be advantageous to them with the crowd behind them.
- [06:17]
Draymond Green
I think all that's great, but it gets to a point to where you have to start. It's the moment things like you keep, but you keep doing what you're doing, you're going to keep getting what you're getting. So when I take a step back and I look at the Knicks team like they made substitution adjustments, outside of that, they haven't made many adjustments this series, offensively or defensively. Like, I don't see many adjustments that they've made. Like maybe it's like, yo, we going into the post more. Because if you look at the Knicks from a post back down standpoint, Carl Anthony Town should have the advantage of posting up Pascal Siakam, right?
- [06:59]
Baron Davis
Yep.
- [07:00]
Draymond Green
All right, so you go advantage just from, I'm not saying overall player just from a post up standpoint.
- [07:06]
Baron Davis
Just from in the block.
- [07:09]
Draymond Green
Yes. Karl Anthony Towns should have that advantage.
- [07:11]
Baron Davis
Karl Anthony Towns can't catch the ball in the block. That's the problem, man. He getting pushed all the way out the post. And so you really don't have a block advantage because when Karl Anthony Tales make a good move, it's 1, 2, 3, dribble, spin, 2, a layup, he not catching it in the post. Drop step, jump hook, drop step, get inside for the layup. It has to be on him creating space for himself because he getting pushed damn near all the way 20ft from the basket when he posts up.
- [07:47]
Draymond Green
Okay, so again, I'm going to go back to coaching. So as the coach, then I have to run some things to get him closer to the basketball touches. Meaning, Right. Like maybe it's an old school guard, big cross screen and he, you know, he getting a better catch there. Right. Like, as the coach, that's on me to figure out how to get him closer to the basket because I think on a 1, 2 dribble spacing like necessary. Spot catch from Carl Anthony Towns. He should have the advantage on Pascal. He got stream side. All right. OG Anunoby should have the advantage on Nimhard. Correct?
- [08:30]
Baron Davis
Right.
- [08:32]
Draymond Green
All right, so there's those two. Mikel Bridges should have the advantage from a post up standpoint on Halle, correct?
- [08:40]
Baron Davis
Yep.
- [08:42]
Draymond Green
All right. Mitchell Robinson and Miles Turner. Mitchell Robinson, we're not posting him up, so we'll throw that one out the window. And then Jalen Broston, he's very good in the post actually. Like that's kind of his game. Will he be able to pull out on Niecemith Niece Smith got side advantage. I don't know. But anyway, if you just slow the ball down and post it up and again, this is the playoffs. This is not regular season basketball. This is not man, the game has changed. This is how can I win this series. What looking at some of those matchups and the post do is it can cut down on some of the turnovers because you can see the pictures develop easy, right? Like you got the ball. If you double team come, you see it, you get it out of there. Like you can see the pitchers develop easier. It also slows down the Indiana Pacers from two standpoints. A it can slow their breakdown because you get them in foul trouble. You saw with Jalen Brunson kept getting to the line last night. It slowed the Pacers down. Now you gotta run a half court offense the whole time. That's not quite where they excel, right. So it slows them down from that standpoint. But it also slows them down because now you got those guys guarding the post that's taking them legs away a little bit more. It's not as easy to run, you know, and just push the tempo. But with the Knicks just trying to push the tempo and them trying to push the tempo, it don't make sense. So then you end up like the Knicks are playing into their hands because they're better at pushing the tempo than the Knicks. And so I just think there needs to be some adjustments offensively, there needs to be some adjustments defensively that I quite frankly don't think they've done. Like if you start switching five, right, like we've seen teams try to switch five with Halle and the Pacers and Halle is given some, some of these teams fits throughout the course of these playoffs. However, is Halle beating you one on one to where you just say I don't care if this guy goes nuts on that one on one matchup all night But I'm not helping. Right? So like say he get to switch with Mitchell Robinson and he wants to go with Mitchell Robinson. If he get a half a step on Mitchell Robinson going towards the rim. Hey, everybody, you stay home. We want to see him beat us. Getting layups over Mitchell Robinson, number one. Mitchell Robinson going to make up some of that at the rim. And then if Halle going to beat us with step back threes over Mitchell Robinson, you kind of got to pick something that you going to live with.
- [11:15]
Baron Davis
You got to live with.
- [11:16]
Draymond Green
But him driving and kicking and him playing pick and roll coverage, and him coming off picking that pick and roll coverage apart, that's not going to work. We know that's not going to work. So I just think at some point, man, some adjustments got to be made. You can't just keep doing the same thing.
- [11:32]
Baron Davis
I agree. I would say on the defensive end, when I watched last night's game, every time the Knicks got into a pick and roll situation and never knew what they were doing. And that is not a good look. I'm talking about 1-3-212-14. It was just ultimate confusion. Right? So you gotta do something because you're not getting over screens underscreens. You just getting confused. And really what I hate saying, like everybody's pointing and then when you look on the Indiana side is mano a mano pressure. Get over the screen. Make them work. Make them take tough shots. I think Indiana has taken what the Knicks need. And if the Knicks slow themselves down and play their style of basketball, if you can slow Indiana down, make them play half court, then like you said, take advantage of the post situation. You're not going to outshoot these guys. You're not going to what they do. Yeah. You're not going to outrun them. Right. You're not going to out playmake them as a team. And then Halliburton, you know, you got to pay attention to this man. He is their engine. So the start of the game, him getting those first four, five, six assists and not even looking to score like you playing into his hand. Oh, let me get Miles Turner a few. Oh, let me get Nemhardt a couple. Let me get past. He just coming to the game to make sure everybody, you know, got their coffee, they eating, you know, they in the flow, and then everything starts to just open up. So you gotta make him pick one way he's gonna play. Either you gonna beat you on the points or are you just gonna make him pass and make somebody else become the playmaker?
- [13:34]
Draymond Green
Exactly. But 32, 12 and 15.
- [13:37]
Baron Davis
Come on, man. 15 assists, that's BD numbers.
- [13:40]
Draymond Green
That's. That's crazy. Four steals, zero turnovers. That is BD number. BD. You had a game like that in your career?
- [13:48]
Baron Davis
Yeah.
- [13:49]
Draymond Green
Zero turnovers, two steals. I mean, Holly had the edge. Two steals, Holly had four. 10 assists, you had. Holly had 15, 14 rebounds you had. Holly had 12. You got Holly there. You had 33, Holly had 32. You got him there. You remember that performance?
- [14:10]
Baron Davis
I hit the gay winner that day. And that is the sole reason why we have replay.
- [14:17]
Draymond Green
They called it all.
- [14:18]
Baron Davis
They waved him off.
- [14:20]
Draymond Green
That's crazy, man. It wasn't no replay to confirm that, man.
- [14:25]
Baron Davis
He called it off before I even released the ball. It was 0.7, 0.8 seconds. He went to the replay, doubled down. It was like, no way he got it off.
- [14:37]
Draymond Green
Who's the official?
- [14:38]
Baron Davis
What was his name? Bernie Fryer, maybe. I can't remember his name. Maybe he waved it off. We wound up going to overtime against Orlando. But then in that same, I think, playoffs, Derek Fisher hit. Remember the shot against San Antonio? Yeah. And then that's when they came with the replay. Oh, we gonna have to start going to the replay to see if these shots work or not. Because how could Derek Fisher shot count and mine not?
- [15:08]
Draymond Green
That's crazy.
- [15:10]
Baron Davis
So a little taste of history. NBA history, man. History of the game. But shout out to Halliburton. You know, a performance like that, you and your back, you have control. I remember playing against Orlando, feeling that, that. That same thing. Anytime Patrick Ewing was in the pick and roll. Cause Pat was older, man. It's two dribbles make him slide twice. He gotta go back, and I'm following him right to the basket to create. Right. If it's anybody else, they switch, it's over. When you in flow like that and you see everything, the game for Halliburton, he be wide open. He be shooting wide open. Threes.
- [15:56]
Draymond Green
It's like they give him so much space, and his shot takes a little time to load it up anyway. And they give him so much space that he just, like, get it loaded.
- [16:07]
Baron Davis
Yeah. Nobody's putting pressure on him. I mean, he's a great guard. And you gotta, like, once again, pick your poison. But nobody has challenged him. Nobody's challenged his handle, challenged his ability to create his shot off the bounce. They just let him set. He just set him up. He's genius. He's genius. He has set you up.
- [16:32]
Draymond Green
Bd. I was talking to Travis the other day about this strap Was like, man, is deus his handle like that. And I'm telling you, the reason they don't pressure him like that though, is Holly handle is very underrated and sneaky and all them boys know and different points when they tried to press him, he. He hit Mikel Bridges with one at the end of the game. The play where he got past, got to Mitchell Robinson and ran back. If you watch that play, he back bow.
- [17:01]
Baron Davis
He turned him around. Oh, he spun him around.
- [17:05]
Draymond Green
And so I think all of those guys also know that if they try to pressure him, he'll bop their ass so fast. And they know that. But it don't look. If you're watching the tv, it don't look like his handle like that. But I'm telling you, man, when you get in front, it's like Steph Curry and Kyrie Irving. Their ball handling starts when it appeared to you that they've lost the basketball because you think they've lost it. And they got it so crazy on the yo yo. Where as soon as you go to reach, you so out of position and they didn't caught and you so out of position that there's no way you could catch up. Holly got some of that where it's deceiving. Like you. The ball look like it's there and before you know it, you go to reach and ba ba and Holly's 6, 7. So whereas Kyrie and Steph make it up in like erky jerk and like just the Ali also like he ba bap his six, seven, his stride, he gone, you know. And so it's very interesting to watch because looking at it on tv, it don't look, it don't appear that his handle is like that when you play. His handle is way tighter and nicer than it may appear. And I think those guys know that. That's why they not pressuring them like that. But you gotta. You can't just. He too good to just let him see the court and pick you apart.
- [18:24]
Baron Davis
Yeah, he's shifty. He's shifty. His is like body movement. Like he's trying to keep you off balance, keep you guessing. And is not necessarily like attack at you. It's to keep you moving side to side and guessing. If you. If you do want to press, he go. If you don't press, he's stepping back. So just great sign of a point guard, of knowing you know your space out there on the floor, your space, your defender space, and being able to control the game by keeping your defender off you. And if they Come up on him. He been getting to the hole, too, so you gotta figure out something.
- [19:07]
Draymond Green
Yeah. I mean, also, he had Pops back in the building, shout out to that. Shout out to Commissioner Adam Silver getting that done. I think that's fire. I think the only thing now is, like, they gonna be going on the road. Like, let Pops go on the road. You still gotta sit in Sweet Pops. I'm not in the business of wanting guys to get punished and, like, wanting guys to get suspended and losing money. I think that shit's whack. And so I never like to see that. But in this situation and what happened with Holly, Pops and the punishment and all that, and everybody like, oh, man, he shouldn't get special treatment. Like, yes, he should, because his son is Tyrese Halliburton. And just say what you want in life. Like, different people get different treatment. That's just what it is. Like, we can all sugarcoat it and be like, oh, like, everything should be the same. That ain't how this world works. It's just not. And so he should get special treatment. He should be at them games, granted. He shouldn't be courtside. He should be in the suite. I think he should still be able to be in the suite at Madison Square Garden, right? Like, Howie got to pay for it. So that's your punishment, right? Pops come to the game, you end up. You got to buy a sweet something out. I don't think Holly tripping over that punishment. I'm sure he wore Pops at all these games, right? Like, and so I just think, like, find a way, man, for that man to be in the building. This don't happen often. Like, his son is on the verge of taking the Indiana Pacers to the NBA Finals to possibly win a championship. Let them experience that. Did he have a fucked up moment with Giannis? Absolutely. Giannis said he moved on. If Giannis moved on, y' all move on. Everybody move on, right? And so let that man be in the building at all them games, because as someone who's been in the position, it's nothing like it. Like, and you don't get these. Like, these moments just don't come back around. I was fortunate enough to be in the moment over and over again, but it just don't happen like that all the time, man. And so let Pops be at all the games. Make Holly Ash spend some of that supermax money he got and buy them suites at the road games, too. But let Pops be at all them games. It's dope. And shout out to Halle for responding the way he did with pops in the building, making it a memorable performance. Having his pops back in the building, I thought that was super dope. So shout out to them man. And I got them closing out the Knicks in five.
- [21:33]
Baron Davis
Knicks and Sander what Shannon Sharp say.
- [21:37]
Draymond Green
A tick, a big Nick Pacers and.
- [21:42]
Baron Davis
Five hilarious Knicks in seven. We still got hope.
- [21:50]
Draymond Green
Oh no, it's over chat. It's a rap.
- [21:54]
Baron Davis
We'll see.
- [21:55]
Draymond Green
It's rap. It's rap. I mean it is rap city in the basement.
- [22:01]
Baron Davis
We'll see Knicks win Game 5 just because of Draymond.
- [22:07]
Draymond Green
I'm just telling you man, them pace is ready to move on.
- [22:10]
Baron Davis
They balling now.
- [22:12]
Draymond Green
They definitely putting it together, man. Foreign.
- [22:20]
Baron Davis
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- [23:53]
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- [24:24]
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- [24:54]
Clayton English
I'll correct my kids now and then. We're the say when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.
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Dan Flores
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- [25:23]
Greg Lodd
I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lodd and this is season two of the War on Drugs Podcast. Sir, we are back in a big way.
- [25:30]
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In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.
- [25:33]
Draymond Green
This kind of star studded a little bit, man.
- [25:35]
Greg Lodd
We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.
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Draymond Green
It's just the compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.
- [25:45]
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Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne for Brothers Osborne, we have this misunderstanding of.
- [25:51]
Baron Davis
What this quote unquote drug thing is.
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Benny the Butcher, Brent Smith from Shinedown.
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Greg Lodd
Got Be real from Cypress Hill, NHL enforcer Riley Cote, Marine Corps vet, MMA fighter Liz Caramouche.
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Draymond Green
What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things.
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Greg Lodd
It makes it real.
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It really does. It makes it real.
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Greg Lodd
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- [26:38]
Draymond Green
But remember to subscribe to the Draymond Green Show Baron Davis so you don't miss any episodes.
- [26:43]
Baron Davis
And don't forget to follow us on all social media at Draymond Show. We are recording this episode before Game 5 of the Western Conference finals. Will the Thunder win tonight?
- [26:59]
Draymond Green
Yeah, I think it's over, man. I just think, you know, with the Thunder, like, I've seen some stuff coming from the Timberwolves that is hard to rally around. You know, like, Ant man press conference last game saying he didn't get enough shots. Like, I want to see Ant man just own that moment. You know what I'm saying? Like, nah, I wasn't good enough, you know, because saying I ain't get enough shots, like, you got the ball, you know what I'm saying? So if ant man shoot 25 times, this coach ain't gonna sit on him. So you kind of gotta go make that happen. I told y' all earlier in the series, I also didn't like benching Julius Randle in the fourth quarter in the game that he's having the first bad game he's having in the playoffs, and he get, like, benched in the fourth quarter. Like, they haven't been through enough together to do stuff like that. You know, where Steve Kerr in game, Game three or four, where I. I got benched kind of in the fourth quarter. And then we started doing the offense, the defense. It was game three, actually, for me, it was different because it had never happened before. But we had such a foundation to stand on. We had multiple championships that we had won already to stand on to where Steve know, like, I can make this decision, and I'm not going to lose my guy by making this decision because I've won three championships with this dude. We've been through numerous series that has called for adjustments to be made. He knows how this works, right? And, like, fine. Like, I bounce right back, come back game four, credible. Game five, writeable. Game six, right? Like, but again, there was a foundation built for us to stand on.
- [28:49]
Baron Davis
It was a trust.
- [28:50]
Draymond Green
Chris Fishman, Julius Randle coached for, like, 50 something games because you missed a large chunk of the season with injury. So he's coached him, like, 57 games. I'm not sure they have the foundation to stand on and, like, bench him in the fourth quarter for his first bad game. So when I saw that, right, like, when I say I've seen things come from them that I really don't like. Like, let's face it, OKC is the better team, no question. But just because you're the better team don't mean that you win. But when you are facing a team that's better, all of those things have to be right. And if those things aren't right, Then you have no chance. And so I think those things catch up to you, right? Like benching Julius run. Then he come out, he have a, he having a bad game last game. It's mentally he like, man, I'm gonna come out. Like, I know I'm, I, I'm, I'm about to get subbed out, right? Like, I can't make a mistake, you know? And so there's just different things, man, that coming out of that series, like, looking, watching that series that I see coming out, that I noticed because I've been through it, and those are things that you play on in the playoffs and you're facing, against, facing those guys. I don't really, I just don't think they've put themselves in position throughout this series to take it. Now, as you know, it always, it only takes one game to change the series, but I just don't see tonight being that night. Like, I, I think okc, they coming out, they want to finish their breakfast.
- [30:19]
Baron Davis
All right, so since you got the Pacers winning the East OkC closing this up, why should fans be excited for Thunder vs Pacers finals?
- [30:32]
Draymond Green
I'm not one to get, get ahead of myself because I think I know better. I've come back from down 31 and won a series. I've lost the series being up 3:1. So I'm not one that's saying this is happening because these two teams still got to win it and saying that I'm not even going to break down that series or even say why people should be excited because I think you gotta finish your breakfast first. This is the playoffs. Anything can happen. Anything can happen. So whereas I think the Knicks is done. Whereas I think Timberwolves is done. You got, you got. That last game is the toughest one.
- [31:15]
Baron Davis
Yeah. You gotta prove it.
- [31:17]
Draymond Green
Both of those teams coming out free swinging because they know, like, yo, I ain't got nothing to lose. This is it. This is our last one if we lose. So I'mma give everything I got. I'm throwing every haymaker I got. And by the way, both of those teams have multiple guys that can beat you and take over a game. Julius Randle can, obviously. Ant man can. Cat can. Jalen, bro, both of those teams have guys that can beat you. So I'm not going to get into which one of those how that series or being excited about it until this time, because you got to close them boys out and it ain't always that easy.
- [31:55]
Baron Davis
Speaking of which, you being down 3:1 on this date in 2016, the great Klay Thompson put a remarkable performance together, scoring 41 points, hitting 11 three pointers in Game 6 against the Thunder and the Western Conference finals, y' all were down three, two, landing okc. What was that like? That was one of my favorite games to watch.
- [32:25]
Draymond Green
You know what's crazy? That series. So if you go back and watch that series, to start that series, we outsmarted ourselves. What we did was we did not guard Andre Roberson at all. Literally didn't guard him. The guy to help on KD and Russia, who was guarding Andre Robeson and literally left him wide open. And it's a gimmick, right? We actually did it the year before to Tony Allen in a different way though, where we put me on Mark Gasol and I guarded him straight up. We put Harrison Barnes on. In 2015, we put Harrison Barnes on Z ball and just all out front, no matter where he goes. And then we put Bogut literally behind Z Bo to help Harrison and kind of play Tony Allen off the floor. Once we played Tony Allen off the floor from the offensive end, their defense couldn't survive because Tony was just. Tony was just fuck your whole offense up. Like Tony. I want the best defenders that I've played against in my time in the league. Tony Hollis. Insane facts, killer facts. Oh, my God. And so offense, we use the offensive end, Tony's lack of ability to shoot it to force them to have to take them off the floor because they couldn't score enough. And then. Then they compete enough defensively against our. Our offense. And so that's how we end up coming back from down 2:1 in that series of winners. Fast forward to this year. 2016. One year later, we're playing against OKC. We don't guard ropes. And it works. And then they figure it out. Cause it's a gimmick. And it doesn't work anymore. And they figure it out. And so now we rolling the game five. And we like, yo, it's three one, we going home for game five. What we gonna do? And we all were for Steve down, Steph, myself, we're all like, yo, let's just guard them straight up, make Russ and KD beat us and take everybody else away. Because when we've played this team and we've made Russ and KD beat us and take everybody else away, it's hard. Like, so we gonna make Russ like, we're gonna guard them straight up. We gonna put Clay back on Russ, we gonna put Andre on kd and we just gonna guard them straight up. And they gotta Beat us and we won game five. Come back. Game six back against the wall. And Clay, bro, the whole day, Clay, like, Dre, I got us. Like, there's no chance we lose in this game, bro. You know, Clay get this little twitch, like, start twitching the shoulder like, I got us Dre. No way. Like, you could see in his demeanor. Walk the whole thing, shoot around. No way we losing this game, bro. I got us. We down 15, and out of nowhere comes Klay Thompson. 3 3. Caught the ball at his foot. One of them shot at three, and he's like, I'm telling you, we not. And so then from that point on, we realized, oh, we coming back. We taking this game. But now at that point, you know, you got the series because they not coming back to Oakland, Oracle. They not coming back to Oracle and beating us in game seven, right? So we came back in that series, and I remember, like, it was yesterday. It was crazy. That's a crazy year, man. You think about all the things that happened in basketball history in 2016. That series was crazy. Obviously, we lost in the finals, 31 lead. That was crazy. 2016, that's also the year that, like, Steph hit that crazy shot and OKC we had on those gray sleeve jerseys, and that's like, that. That shot was kind of like Steph, like, yeah, it's really me. I'm really him. It's really it. And then history happens. It's crazy. But, like, that's all that year, but that series. McClay just coming back from 3:1, it was insane. So, you know, everything that I said before this about a 3:1 and living through that and being a part of that, there's no way I could count either one of these things up.
- [36:44]
Baron Davis
Okay, agree or disagree? We've seen a few conversations around the league online that we want to address, so during this segment, we will simply agree or disagree with certain trending basketball topics. All right, you ready? Agree or disagree?
- [37:02]
Draymond Green
Yes, sir. Let's do it.
- [37:03]
Baron Davis
The first one. Giannis just got his sixth straight. All NBA selection fans are debating whether Giannis is the best power forward of this era. Agree or disagree?
- [37:16]
Draymond Green
Do I get to explain why I agree or disagree?
- [37:18]
Baron Davis
Agree or disagree? Yeah, of course.
- [37:27]
Draymond Green
Okay, I'm going to disagree. And the reason I disagree is this. Giannis has played in an era where it kind of became positionless basketball. And I don't necessarily quite think that Giannis is a power forward and has been throughout this whole becoming of Giannis. And so in saying that, that's why I disagree with that. Because Giannis is one of the greatest players of this era, and the game was kind of positionless. What made people start calling Giannis a power forward is because you had to start putting power, force and centers on Giannis. The team that you build around Giannis, because his skill set was so great in driving, or still great driving and getting downhill, is you put a lot of shooting around him. So then when people look at the game, they're like, oh, well, Drew Holiday must be this position, and Khris Middleton must be this position, and that guy must be this position. Brook Lopez is a five. All right, great. So Giannis is a power forward, right? And that's why I think people start saying that Giannis is a power forward, because Giannis is his attributes. He's 6' 11, 250 something, 60 some pounds, strong as an ox, fast as a gazelle. Because of those attributes and his downhill prowess, the way teams had to start matching up on Giannis was putting power forwards and centers on him. Because when he was. When you were putting guards on him because he handled the ball so much, they were way too small. And so, in turn, I think people start matching up with Giannis putting bigger guys on him because there was just no way you can guard him at the rim. So then people are like, oh, he's a power forward. But if you look at the great power forwards, Giannis don't play like Tim Duncan. Giannis don't play like Carolyn Garnett. Right? And so I think people are being lazy and. Or just don't understand what they're looking at when they're like, Giannis, like, pigeonhole him into the power four position. I don't think that's accurate. I just don't think that's very accurate. But we had to guard him because of his skill set and how great he is at it with power, force and centers, that gives you the best chance at trying to contain him getting downhill and at the rim. That's what people did. And so I disagree, because I think he's just one of the greatest players. And I think it's lazy, lack of knowledge. If people's just like, yeah, he's a power forward, I think you're doing him a disservice in his greatness.
- [40:11]
Baron Davis
All right. Giannis is the best power forward of this era. I would say. I agree. Starting at power forward, Giannis Antetokounmpo.
- [40:25]
Draymond Green
Yeah, I don't think they say starting at power forward. They say at forward.
- [40:28]
Baron Davis
Oh, they do say power forward.
- [40:31]
Draymond Green
At forward, Giannis.
- [40:35]
Baron Davis
In the hierarchy of basketball structure, if you picking a team, usually you'll pick Giannis to be a four.
- [40:43]
Draymond Green
But here's the thing though, BD because of the way he plays, under no circumstances is anyone ever going to say Giannis is a better power forward than Tim Duncan. You just not comparing him to.
- [40:55]
Baron Davis
We said in this era of his era, like the 10 years that he been rocking like the last 10 years.
- [41:01]
Draymond Green
But again, but if he's a power forward in his era, then that also puts him, puts him in the Power 4, Power 4 of all time era. And I just don't think people ever give him a fair shot at passing Kevin Garnett, at passing Tim Duncan because you're not going to see him with that same eye.
- [41:17]
Baron Davis
He passed Kevin Garnett, he passed Kevin.
- [41:20]
Draymond Green
Garnett as an overall player. But nobody's ever going to just be like as a power forward.
- [41:26]
Baron Davis
I just don't think people are going.
- [41:27]
Draymond Green
To give him that dupe. I just don't believe that.
- [41:30]
Baron Davis
Like I will.
- [41:32]
Draymond Green
You've never mentioned Giannis Antetokounmpo and Karl Malone in the same sentence. You never done it. That's my point. Like he's never going to be mentioned with the great power forwards when you're having that conversation because it don't even fit. He's so much like, what he does is so much different than those guys that you've never heard Giannis be mentioned with Charles Barkley. You've never once heard anybody say it. That's what I'm saying. So you're not going to get anybody that's going to be like, yeah, he's better than Barkley, he's better than these guys. Because it don't even register that like, look at how this dude play, that he's the same as them. That's not a thing. I just disagree with it.
- [42:17]
Baron Davis
But I would just say he's a one of one at his position. Right. Because if you look at somebody like Dirk Nowitzki, he's a bow forward. He's not the traditional power forward, but he is.
- [42:30]
Draymond Green
He's not. But we mention him when we talk of power forwards because he played power forwards on the block against those power forwards. He wasn't dribbling the ball up the court going coast to coast. He was like, he wasn't doing that stuff. The only thing Dirk did different than most power forwards is shoot the ball.
- [42:45]
Baron Davis
Yeah. Giannis obviously had the one that's more powerful.
- [42:47]
Draymond Green
He get to his spot. But like Giannis just, he's a Hybrid.
- [42:51]
Baron Davis
He's a hybrid forward, I would say. But power forward, power at forward, Giannis Antetokounmpa, he gonna have to guard and somebody gonna have to guard him. And if you saying power forwards and centers guard him, then I gotta say he's a power forward.
- [43:05]
Draymond Green
Yeah, but then. So what about the night where the coach gets smart and they put a smaller guy on him like Alex Caruso then. So now he being guarded by Caruso. Then what?
- [43:15]
Baron Davis
That happens. Then what that happens.
- [43:19]
Draymond Green
Now the power forward ain't guarding him no more because it's all about the makeup of the opposing team's team. So then now we have a team that feels it's better suited if we put Alex Caruso on Joker. Does that make him now a power four still? Because Alex Caruso ain't no power for.
- [43:36]
Baron Davis
It's a matchup. It is a matchup.
- [43:40]
Draymond Green
But that's what I'm saying, though.
- [43:41]
Baron Davis
But he's kind of how to guard Marcus can be. Does that make me a power forward?
- [43:47]
Draymond Green
You just said he'd get guarded by power four. So that make him a power forward. I think people has done that.
- [43:53]
Baron Davis
Yeah. People have to put power forwards and centers on him, which.
- [43:58]
Draymond Green
Yeah, that don't make him a power forward because that's the only. Yeah, I disagree.
- [44:03]
Baron Davis
He's a big man.
- [44:04]
Draymond Green
LeBron James came into the league as a point guard.
- [44:09]
Baron Davis
Yes, kind of.
- [44:11]
Draymond Green
These are facts.
- [44:12]
Baron Davis
Kind of.
- [44:12]
Draymond Green
LeBron James came into the league as a point guard.
- [44:14]
Baron Davis
Kind of.
- [44:15]
Draymond Green
And because of.
- [44:15]
Baron Davis
Then you saw Giannis came into the. They played Giannis at point guard when he first. When Jason Kidd took over.
- [44:22]
Draymond Green
Absolutely, I agree. They did. Just like Ben Simmons came into the league as a Pointer.
- [44:27]
Baron Davis
Let's make him a point guard.
- [44:28]
Draymond Green
So then you put what fits.
- [44:30]
Baron Davis
Let's make him a point guard.
- [44:31]
Draymond Green
Fits in. Right. Like James Harden came into the league as a 2 guard. People still mention James Harden with Dwyane Wade. Nobody be mentioning him with Steph Curry and Chris Paul.
- [44:42]
Baron Davis
Yeah, they do.
- [44:42]
Draymond Green
These things don't mess up too.
- [44:44]
Baron Davis
No way he's a point guard.
- [44:46]
Draymond Green
How do people mention James with this? All right, he's a.
- [44:51]
Baron Davis
He's a point guard, is he not? Or he's a hybrid guard.
- [44:57]
Draymond Green
That's what I'm saying. He a guard. Like, I don't know, man. I just. Again, at the end of the day.
- [45:04]
Baron Davis
We'Re arguing and then you build that team around how many roses we're giving Giannis at this point. So we agree and disagree, but we both agree that he's a 1 of 1 1000%.
- [45:18]
Draymond Green
That's why I don't think pulling him into the Power 4 conversation I think is a disservice to him. Yeah, just my opinion.
- [45:26]
Baron Davis
We'll do our fantasy all time fantasy draft and see if you draft Giannis, where would you draft him and we'll see.
- [45:34]
Draymond Green
I drafted him as a three okay.
- [45:37]
Baron Davis
Second asshole the second one.
- [45:50]
Draymond Green
Get ready for more Must Watch TV from Vice Sports introducing the Grudge, a new series that will relive and unpack many of sports most intense personal and team rivalries exploring the egos, history and high stakes drama that turn ordinary interaction.
- [46:06]
Baron Davis
Into unforgettable battles, delivering something for everyone. Each controversy laced episode of the Grudge digs into the grievances between teams and the top sports personalities in football, basketball, mma, baseball, hockey, golf and more.
- [46:22]
Draymond Green
Narrator Will Compton, former NFL linebacker and co host of the Busing with the Boys, will be joined by a cast of personalities including retired NFL wide receiver Steve Smith Sr, four time Stanley cup champion Darren McCarty, former MLB player and manager Bobby Valentine, and renowned NBA journalist Howard Beck and others who tell the stories of these animosities.
- [46:46]
Baron Davis
You'll also see nostalgic archival footage from witnesses, fans, players and coaches closely connected to that week's story. The grudge premieres Wednesday, March 26 at 10pm Eastern Time with the new episodes every Wednesday only on Vice TV. Go to vice tv.com to find your.
- [47:05]
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- [47:33]
Draymond Green
Foreign.
- [47:37]
Dan Flores
The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West Aldean. Be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella.
- [48:08]
Clayton English
I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.
- [48:18]
Dan Flores
So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [48:29]
DraftKings Ad
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [48:37]
Greg Lodd
I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott, and this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Sir, we are back in a big way.
- [48:43]
DraftKings Ad
In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.
- [48:46]
Draymond Green
This kind of star studded a little bit, man.
- [48:49]
Greg Lodd
We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.
- [48:52]
Draymond Green
It's just the compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.
- [48:58]
DraftKings Ad
Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.
- [49:02]
Baron Davis
We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug thing is.
- [49:07]
DraftKings Ad
Benny the Butcher, Brent Smith from Shinedown.
- [49:10]
Greg Lodd
Got Be Real from Cypress Hill, NHL enforcer Riley Cote, Marine Corvette, MMA fighter Liz Caramouche.
- [49:18]
Draymond Green
What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things.
- [49:20]
DraftKings Ad
Stories matter and it brings a face to them.
- [49:23]
Greg Lodd
It makes it real.
- [49:23]
DraftKings Ad
It really does. It makes it real.
- [49:26]
Greg Lodd
Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs Podcast Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast.
- [49:45]
Draymond Green
Foreign.
- [49:52]
Baron Davis
Says the days of lockdown defenders are gone. Oh, and that you can't do anything against players in the league today. So, you know, our league, the days of stoppers, those are pretty much gone. The Tony Allen, the TAs, Tony Allen types, you know, even myself, I call myself a defender. There are guys that I can't do anything with. I just have to hope I'm there enough for this to be a tough shot for him. He might make the shot, but I did all I could to make it a tough possession for him. You just gotta tip your hat. Agree or disagree?
- [50:33]
Draymond Green
I disagree. I completely disagree. Yeah. Has he seen Amen Thompson play basketball?
- [50:41]
Baron Davis
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, man.
- [50:43]
Draymond Green
I completely disagree. I think.
- [50:45]
Baron Davis
Have you seen Naismith niece Smith, what's his name? N. Smith. You seen him? Who?
- [50:51]
Draymond Green
No, I completely disagree. I think when I look at the Thompson twins, those guys alone just kills that narrative. Now, I also think Paul George making a huge mistake putting himself in the category with Tony Allen.
- [51:08]
Baron Davis
I was just about to say that Paul George is not a lockdown defender. He has never been considered a lockdown defender. A two way player, yes, but that's different. That's not locked down. That means you play offense good and you got good defense awareness and you're a good defender. But he's never been a lockdown defender. To really speak from that perspective, you know, he's a, he's a, he's an offensive guy. And so I think that the fact that people say he's a two way defender and maybe he pride himself on defense, which you have to be anyway, but there's some young dogs in this league that's just coming out to lock people up.
- [51:57]
Draymond Green
Has he seen Tumani Kamar?
- [51:59]
Baron Davis
That dude could play some defense.
- [52:02]
Draymond Green
So don't tell me these types of guys are not around anymore. They young and I think when you look at the NBA, you're starting to see the tide turn. Yeah, it is. We're about to have an NBA finals with somebody new. Is winning the NBA finals that's never won before.
- [52:17]
Baron Davis
Last time of year. Last time of year.
- [52:21]
Draymond Green
So you're starting to see a tie turn. Cool. So yeah, you got to give these young guys the chance to actually become Tony Allen, right? Like that takes time. Tony Allen wasn't Tony Allen in Boston, right. Tony Allen in Boston was building to where guys like, yo, this dude, unbelievable defender and then he starts showing this wreck, you know what I'm saying? He's showing it against Kobe and then he became Tony Allen, right? So you got to give these guys time to actually do it. But by no means are they not there. Like they're there. Maybe Paul George can't identify them because he ain't never been that and that's okay. But to think that they're not there or say they're not there is disrespectful to these young guys that I see coming. They have possibly turned out to be locked down defenders that in 15 years, guys that they played with like, man, I played against Amen Thompson, I played against Tumani Kamara and them guys like the Tony Allens of ours, you know, when we coming through and yeah, it's not fair.
- [53:29]
Baron Davis
Yeah, it's not fair. I disagree.
- [53:32]
Draymond Green
I completely disagree. And you know, I would just say to pg, don't sleep on these young boys.
- [53:40]
Baron Davis
They coming for you.
- [53:42]
Draymond Green
Don't do that. Don't. Paul George is a lot of things. First ballot hall of Famer is one of them. He ain't Tony Allen. Ain't never been, ain't never gonna be. We ain't gonna do that, but we'll be a first ballot for sure. Anybody who want to question that, I'll make the argument for on his behalf. But he ain't Tony Allen. Don't do that. PG that's crazy.
- [54:07]
Baron Davis
Before we get into our next segment of the show, I'm gonna answer some of your questions in a segment called Bet with bd. All lines and odds we discussed today are subject to change courtesy of DraftKings. First question Barrett, do you buy into the zigzag theory of the NBA playoffs? In your career, did you ever come off a game one win and think, we're definitely losing game two? Heck no. You think I'm going to get another steal. If you're on the road, you figured out a way to beat them, but you know that that team is going to make adjustments. So you're definitely not thinking like, oh, we're going to lose game two. You thinking like, hey, this is an opportunity to get up 2 0. So that's really not the mentality I don't think anybody has. Next up, Barrett, what stats or trends do you look at when betting on the NBA? Does it differ if you're betting in the regular season versus the playoffs? I would say for me you're looking at games at home, games on the road, the last five games, minutes and touches. That's how I would measure anywhere. When you're looking for people, if you betting on lines about people scoring or rebounding, you always want to take the last five games and then look at their playing time too to see how much time have they been getting consistently. Is it increasing or is it decreasing? Is the coach looking at different lineups for that matter? And then I say in the playoffs, you know that the coach is probably going to play a tighter rotation. So you just really should look at. You look at the regular season numbers versus the playoff numbers. Certain players have a magic for showing up and over performing in the playoffs, but that's usually going to be your superstars or one or two guys on your team that's going to be relied upon and usually that's so somebody that people are not paying attention to. And if you take a look at these this year playoffs, it's been a lot of the three, four guys who have been coming up with explosive games as well. Final one Baron, when do you prefer to place your bets? Early in the week when the lines are open or closer to tip off? I say for me, I would place one earlier in the week because it just kind of relieve the stress and the pressure. And then if I need to double down or move something, then I'll make another bet, closer to tip off. You know, it could be based on injury or based on, like I said, a lineup adjustment or something that comes in from the news later in that. In that week or closer to tip off. I appreciate y' all chiming in. That was our segment betting with BD, sponsored by DraftKings.
- [57:06]
Draymond Green
We got one get at me. Question for our fans. What do you think about the Dallas Mavericks getting the number one pick in the NBA draft? What message does that send to tanking teams?
- [57:17]
Baron Davis
Don't tank. Don't tank. It's not gonna work out. Ay, man. For Dallas. I mean, I've traded in the European actor for the great American hero in Dallas, in Texas. I mean, come on, man. And this kid is probably the missing link in the trade for Luka that you get in addition to ad so the great American hero, GI Joe, Cooper Flag. Cooper Flag is like a GI Joe type of brand. We need, like, Cooper Flag type of figurines. Dallas, the South Texas. Come on. He gonna have some dogs around him and his versatility. That's a win. Dallas wins.
- [58:12]
Draymond Green
Golly, that's some incredible luck there. One message that sent to the Tank continues, for me, that shit don't work anyway. Anytime you trying to lose, that ain't never worked in your favor. Stop it.
- [58:23]
Baron Davis
Okay. Who created the four ring handshake? You do with Shaq?
- [58:29]
Draymond Green
Oh, man, it just kind of so Shaq, you know, be up to it. And there's always the pick on Charles moments up there. It's so fun picking on Charles. And Chuck's such a good sport about everything and funny as hell that he get crazy comeback. So it's just always unknown. And so Shaq go around. I got four rings, Kenny. When I was one of my first couple times on the set. Kenny, how many rings you got? Kenny got two rings. Yeah, Draymond, how many rings you got a full of? I mean, this is actually. I had three, but then I ended up getting four. He like, oh, four. And you do the bump, you know. Kenny do his two. You know, like, Charles, we ain't gonna talk to you. And so that's just how it kind of came about.
- [59:12]
Baron Davis
That's too funny.
- [59:14]
Draymond Green
Me and Shaq throwing up our fours and boom. So that's our thing, you know. Four rings, baby.
- [59:19]
Baron Davis
Y' all leave the OG Chuck alone, man. Chuck is the legend. Style him out.
- [59:25]
Draymond Green
Chuck is the legend, you know, But Chuck talk a lot of shit. Yeah, he did a lot of shit. So it's always fun getting that. Chuck. Chuck. One of the best, though, man. I've been so fortunate to be around those guys. Talk basketball with those guys. I'm extremely grateful. Tnt, Craig Berry, Tara August, who was there when I first came on.
- [59:50]
Baron Davis
Yeah, all good people, man.
- [59:52]
Draymond Green
All great people. So I've. I've been very fortunate to be with that crew, man. But it's gonna be a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green show with the legend, my brother, Baron Davis.
- [60:05]
Baron Davis
There it is.
- [60:05]
Draymond Green
We will chop it up with y' all after some of these games, after what I think will be after the series.
- [60:12]
Baron Davis
Knicks and seven. Let's go, baby.
- [60:16]
Draymond Green
They don't even believe it. I don't even think the Knicks believe that. Until next time. That's a wrap. Peace.
- [60:31]
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The volume.
- [60:36]
Draymond Green
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- [60:46]
Baron Davis
They admitted that they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp, and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant and is back in Walmart, Target, and other stores for under $4.
- [61:03]
Draymond Green
So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local stores to try the OG Cool Rush for yourself.
- [61:09]
Total Wireless Ad
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- [62:00]
Draymond Green
This is an Iheart podcast.