The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Penny Hardaway on Michael Jordan & Steph Curry, Shaq-Magic split, coaching Memphis

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – The Draymond Green Show w/ Baron Davis: Penny Hardaway on Michael Jordan & Steph Curry, Shaq-Magic Split, Coaching Memphis

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode of The Draymond Green Show, hosted by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, Draymond Green sits down with former NBA stars Baron Davis and Penny Hardaway. The trio delves deep into basketball legacies, the evolution of the game, and the intricate dynamics of coaching at the collegiate level. Key discussions revolve around legendary figures like Michael Jordan and Steph Curry, the significant split between Shaquille O'Neal and the Orlando Magic, and Penny Hardaway's current role coaching the Memphis basketball team.

Guest Introduction

The episode kicks off with Draymond Green expressing his admiration for Penny Hardaway, highlighting their shared history and mutual respect. Green enthuses, “[04:52] I just want you to understand, man, my love that I have for you, my appreciation for your career, for who you are as a person…”

Penny Hardaway reciprocates the sentiment, stating, “[05:37] I appreciate that. It’s the same here, man. It’s just one of those situations where just watching you just grow through the game…”

Mutual Respect and Personal Stories

The conversation quickly establishes the strong bond between the hosts and guests. Baron Davis shares nostalgic memories of playing against Hardaway, emphasizing the latter's superior skills and influence on his own game. “[06:20] I have to echo, you know, obviously, my looking up to you, bro. I got an opportunity… I was trying to pile up moves against you, man…”

Hardaway reminisces about his early encounters, highlighting Green's basketball IQ and toughness. “[07:30] I remember that day, bro. Bd, you were different, man. I ain’t gonna lie. From the very beginning…”

Discussing Legends: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the Greatest of All Time (GOAT) debate. Penny Hardaway categorizes the GOAT contenders based on their unique strengths:

• LeBron James as the “numbers guy” due to his statistical prowess.
• Michael Jordan for his undefeated Finals record and defensive excellence.
• Kobe Bryant for his mimicry of MJ’s skills, shot-making ability, and championship successes.

Hardaway articulates, “[20:55] … MJ being a Guy. Undefeated in the finals. A guy that was, you know, first team, all defense. I can’t remember how many times…”

Baron Davis echoes the sentiment, reflecting on Kobe’s relentless drive and how he mirrored Jordan’s greatness, stating, “[22:01] …hope your game is respected even though you’re a bit away from the original legends.”

Steph Curry and Modern Point Guards

The episode notably explores Steph Curry’s revolutionary impact on the point guard position. Hardaway praises Curry’s unique skill set, emphasizing his ability to handle the ball, shoot from unprecedented distances, and read defensive coverages akin to a quarterback in football.

Penny explains, “[27:38] …Steph is Steph, because he was able to push through that window when he got the opportunity in year five. You start looking at guys who did it and pushed through their windows. They probably had some great vests around them…”

Draymond Green adds depth to the conversation by analyzing Curry's decision-making and synergy with teammates, remarking, “[57:08] …no question he’s a point guard, but it’s the ultimate compliment because you’re so great at a thing that they want to make you that other thing.”

Coaching Memphis and NBA Aspirations

Transitioning into coaching, Penny Hardaway shares his experiences and aspirations in leading the Memphis basketball team. He emphasizes building relationships with players, fostering a culture of hard work, and implementing pro-level concepts.

Hardaway states, “[38:04] …we play out of concepts. We try to do everything Golden State does… so I think that gives me an edge as well.”

When discussing his coaching philosophy, he highlights the importance of growth and adaptability: “[43:52] …I want to be the best team playing in March. You know, I’ve never really said that. I’ve said I want to make the NCAA tournament. We want to win a championship…”

Impact of NIL in College Basketball

A critical segment addresses the Name, Image, Likeness (NIL) policy and its repercussions on college basketball. Hardaway critiques the unregulated influx of money, suggesting it may detract from players' dedication to the sport.

He comments, “[35:34] …it also, it’s… it’s being taken out. It’s getting a little out of hand, and we just got to get some guardrails.”

Draymond Green concurs, discussing the NCAA’s perceived lack of oversight and the potential pitfalls of unsupervised financial gains for athletes.

Shaquille O'Neal and the Orlando Magic Split

The episode touches upon the legendary split between Shaquille O'Neal and the Orlando Magic, a pivotal moment in both players' careers. Hardaway recounts the emotional impact of Shaq’s departure, emphasizing the strategic decisions behind the move.

He reflects, “[42:24] …Shaq never told me he was leaving…I knew the magnitude of that, bro… He was like, what about Penny?…”

Baron Davis adds perspective on the broader implications for the franchise and player relationships, stating, “[44:27] …They need some blue guys…you need somebody that can get down there and kind of recruit vets in there…Ya can’t go all young. It’s not gonna work.”

Closing Thoughts

As the episode concludes, Penny Hardaway expresses his desire to transition into an NBA coaching role, leveraging his extensive experience and passion for the game. He shares his vision for integrating veteran knowledge with young talent to foster winning teams.

Hardaway asserts, “[69:23] …I definitely want to coach in the NBA. Man, I get my juices flowing when I sit in the arena… I want to help somebody win. I want to help players get better…”

Draymond Green and Baron Davis echo their support, underscoring Hardaway’s potential impact on the professional coaching landscape.

Notable Quotes

• Penny Hardaway on Coaching Philosophy: “[38:04] …we play out of concepts. We try to do everything Golden State does…”

• Baron Davis on Penny’s Influence: “[06:20] …we just gotta play our matchup every possession. So you really had to bring it now, having the five man switch out.”

• Penny Hardaway on Michael Jordan: “[17:54] …we were the dudes in the league. So when MJ came back, I said, oh, okay. All right. I know what I got to do because at this point, this is my second year…”

• Draymond Green on Steph Curry’s IQ: “[55:08] …the amount of coverages that Steph Curry has seen and being guarded… He’s navigating that…”

• Penny Hardaway on NIL: “[32:20] …NIL has changed the whole demographics in a major way… we need some guardrails on this thing…”

Conclusion

This episode of The Draymond Green Show provides an insightful exploration of basketball legends, the evolution of gameplay, and the challenges and aspirations within coaching. With rich anecdotes and thoughtful analysis, Draymond Green, Baron Davis, and Penny Hardaway offer listeners a deep dive into the heart of the game, honoring its past while navigating its present complexities.

Transcript

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[Adnan Burke]

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[Penny Hardaway]

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[Adnan Burke]

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[Penny Hardaway]

See panda socks, fire truck socks, socks with those cute little strawberries on them.

[Adnan Burke]

You matched each and every one of those tiny socks. I mean, has this ever happened in the history of laundry?

[Penny Hardaway]

And a penguin wearing a cowboy hat? Socks done.

[Adnan Burke]

Enjoy the moment, dad. You've earned it. Yep, switching and saving with Geico feels just like that. Get more with Geico the Volume.

[Penny Hardaway]

This.

[Draymond Green]

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[Baron Davis]

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[Draymond Green]

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[Baron Davis]

What's happening? Follow the show Draymond show on Twitter so you don't miss out on all the announcements.

[Draymond Green]

We got a special episode for y'all today. I am od excited about this episode because yeah, my guys, I grew up an Orlando Magic fan as a kid and I was an Orlando Magic fan because of two people, Shaq and Penny Hardaway. And my first jersey in my life was Shaq with the stripes. I had an Orlando Magic zip up onesie. I had an Orlando Magic nightlight. And for me this is a dream come true. We have a 14 year NBA veteran, four time NBA all star, two time NBA all NBA first team Olympic gold medalist, and the University of Memphis legend and hair basketball coach. None other than the one and only Penny Hardaway.

[Penny Hardaway]

What's happening OG what's happening fellas, man? Hey, it's an honor man. Cause I'm a fan of both. Obviously I've been knowing BD longer but Dre, huge fan man. The way you approach the game, the way you play the game, your mental, not even your the physical part of the game but your mental is O D bro. Just a huge fan. Huge fan man.

[Draymond Green]

I appreciate that. That mean a lot for me. Like I said, just for me being a Fan of yours. And we gonna get into that. This episode, when I. But when I heard the opportunity and they like, yo, what about having Penny on the show? I'm like, what? Like, it's crazy to me. So I just want you to understand, man, my love that I have for you, my appreciation for your career, for who you are as a person. I can't. I can't state that enough before we finish.

[Penny Hardaway]

No, I appreciate that. It's the same here, man. It's just one of those situations where just watching you just grow through the game, man, just from day one, honestly. And again, like I said, I've known BD way longer, but as far as what you said about me, it's the same, bro. I just every. Every championship, every game, when I'm watching with my bigs, when I'm watching with any player, it's just pointing you out that, you know, we love Steph, we love Clay being there when KD came, all of that. But I'm like, dre, man, you just gotta watch it, man. You are the type of player that I enjoy playing with. I had Bo Outlaw. I had these guys that just would run through a wall and do whatever it took and just never really got the full credit. You're getting the credit you deserve. Maybe more. You need more. But at the end of the day, what you bring every day, pure basketball people, is. Is what we love to see.

[Baron Davis]

Thank you, man. And I have to echo, you know, obviously, my. My looking up to you, bro. I got an opportunity. You know, I would say, as a young kid when I was at ucla, to see you walk in the gym. And I would say, just throughout my career, you always been a guy. You know what I mean? And, you know, from what we saw in Orlando to the entertainment to just always how you carried yourself. And then for me, being a young dude in the gym, you know, like, the way you baptized me in the game, that was a cold move. You know what I mean? That was cold. That was cold. Cause I picked you up full court. You know what I mean? You had the ball. We was at ucla. I was like, oh, yeah? I'm about to pick him up. And, bro, when you looked at me, you was like, are you kidding me? You was like. And then you hit me with, like, eight moves and, you know, UCLA court short, Dre. You feel what I'm saying? He went in and out, cross, boom. Then he did the smitty. Then he did that. And I was like, man, I was sliding. I was like, man, hold on, dude. Like, I'M about to be tired as hell with him.

[Penny Hardaway]

Hey, I remember that day, bro. Bd, you were different, man. I ain't gonna lie. From the very beginning, bro, you were way. You were mature way beyond your years in the game. Your change of speed, your athleticism, your knowledge of the game, your iq, your toughness, because you had that toughness as well to go along with that game. I mean, the change of heights, the change of speeds, everything, bro.

[Baron Davis]

You just, you know, I, I. I watched you. I remember I went to Miami when we was both coming back from rehab, man, I got a chance, you know, when we had our back, you had. Had some. Some knee issues.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yep.

[Baron Davis]

Like, we was both trying to make our way back, man. And it just soak up that game from you, you know what I mean? And learn how to be like BD if you want to get to that next level, you know what I mean? Like, it. It's all the fine details, and I never forget that because that kind of took my career to my confidence to a whole nother level, man. So you just. You all, like, you. You are my guy. You know what I mean? You are my guy. There is nobody touching you, bro, as far as, like, game, the ism, you know what I mean? Just. I mean, it was almost like you are one of the pioneers of hip hop and who. How the rap music start. How the rap music start really translating into, oh, there he is. You know what I mean? The story. There he is. You one of the realest dudes to ever touch a basketball, bro, and to play this league and, you know, salute.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man. I feel the same way about your game, bro. You were just elite. When I left ucla, I called. Everybody was like, yo, Baron Davis, look out. When you came into the league, you did the same thing, bro. It was crazy how you did it on all levels. You did the same exact thing that you're saying that I did, man. And the illest dude that I've ever seen with a rock in his hands for sure. No doubt about it.

[Baron Davis]

Thank you, bro. That's. Oh, man.

[Draymond Green]

How many you averaging a day? And today, I don't want to make.

[Penny Hardaway]

Nobody mad, Dre, but I'm thinking at least 30 for sure.

[Baron Davis]

Easy, easy.

[Penny Hardaway]

30, easy. In my prime, I'm not disrespecting anything, but in this day and age, this game fits me. It's not crowded in the paint. You ain't playing your matchup every possession. You know, back in the day, we played our matchup every possession. So you really had to bring it now, having the five man switch out. No. Yes.

[Baron Davis]

I mean, yeah, that would be crazy.

[Draymond Green]

Like, what was getting dirty on dubs, huh?

[Baron Davis]

Nah, that's an easy 30, 30 on the dub.

[Penny Hardaway]

I just know. I just, I stay. I was a student of the game, bro. It wasn't just about my athleticism and, and the style of play I studied so hard, bro. So I was gonna figure it out, no doubt.

[Baron Davis]

Hey, talk, talk, talk about, talk about the, the difference in, you know, like your mentality coming into the league, you know, as a rookie, a rookie sensation. Like in that era, like you had to be a. A dog. You know what I mean? Like, talk about, you know, when you got there, like, what was your mentality? Knowing that, okay, you got Mike, you got Reggie Miller, you may have Ross Strickland. You know what I mean? It's a fight every night. What was that like?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, it was kill or be killed, bro. That was my mentality. You got to go out there and kill or be killed. And those guys weren't sparing you. Back in the day again, you had to play your matchup and it wasn't much help. You're on an island by yourself. And I said, well, they have to be on the island with me by themselves too. So at the end of the day, I was 6, 7. I posted them up. I was like, I'm not going to play with these dudes. I'm going right to the block. I'm going around them, I'm jumping over them. And for whatever, you know, deal. Like back in the day, guards couldn't play post D. I guess they weren't used to being posted. And I took guards to the post and just ate off that. And then obviously the floor game, you know, I had the floor game as well, but I wasn't about playing with people. I was about just getting the job done and trying to get the dub. And I wasn't trying to be cute, fade aways and all that. Cause I, I ain't really with that. I'm with getting it done. And when I came in, it was kill or be killed.

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[Adnan Burke]

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[Penny Hardaway]

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[Adnan Burke]

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[Penny Hardaway]

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[Adnan Burke]

See DKNG co bball what's up everybody? Adnan Burke here to tell you about a new podcast from iHeart podcast in the National Hockey League. It's NHL Unscripted with Perkin Demers.

[Jason Demers]

Hey, I'm Jason Demers, former 700 game NHL defenseman turned NHL Network analyst. And boy oh boy, does daddy have a lot to say.

[Adnan Burke]

I love you by the way on NHL Network. We're looking forward to getting together each week to chat and chirp about the sport and all the other things surrounding it that we love. Right?

[Jason Demers]

Yeah, I just met you today, but we're going to have a ton of guests from the colliding worlds of hockey, entertainment and pop culture. And you know what, tons of back and forth on all things NHL.

[Adnan Burke]

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[Jason Demers]

You wish you could pull off my short shorts, Ferkie.

[Adnan Burke]

That's sure to cause a ruckus. Listen to NHL Unscripted with Burke and demers, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Penny Hardaway]

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to report a trade.

[Baron Davis]

Orlando.

[Penny Hardaway]

Has traded the draft rights to Chris Weber.

[Baron Davis]

To Golden State in exchange exchange for the draft rights to Anthony.

[Penny Hardaway]

Hardaway and three future first round draft picks.

[Baron Davis]

All right, you were traded to the Orlando Magic for Chris Weber on draft night one. How did you Feel about the trade. But the biggest question, if you were not traded, you would have had a career at Golden State. What do you think would have unfolded as a Golden State warrior?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, first I'll talk about being traded for my man C. Webb. Shout out to C. Webb. He. It was something that I auditioned for because I was doing the movie Blue Chips in LA with Shaq, and I was with him every single day. And the blessing behind that movie is that we played real basketball. I don't think I took five shots the whole summer. I threw him the ball every time. Like, big fella, that's what I'm really doing for you. The whole year, I was being smart about it because I wanted to be in Orlando. When I went to work out for Orlando, I scrimmaged with the team and took care of business. So I did really well there. And I kind of. Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson were there, and I'm doing the same thing, getting them shots, getting them shots. And then whenever I had to kind of take over, I kind of took over. But really, I wanted to let them know, if I come here, you know, I'm going to be that guy to find y'all and get y'all the ball. Now, the Golden State side of it with Nelly and Tim Hardaway would have been vicious as well because of being.

[Baron Davis]

In the back court, man.

[Penny Hardaway]

The Texas Two Step Tim Hardaway was unreal, bro. So we played one on one inside the arena with Nelly in the crowd watching me and Tim play one on one on my video.

[Baron Davis]

Wow.

[Penny Hardaway]

And I worked out for them and we played like five games. It was just knock down, drag out. So he said, I'm gonna bring the goon in on you. And he gonna tell me if you can hoop with us or not. And Tim came. Now Nelly put Tim on me. He was like, you got go get him. Like, basically he brought Tim like, I'm calling. I'm calling him up. So we played one on one, and it was nobody in there but me, Nelly and Tim. Oh, straight one on one in front of Nelly. Nelly sitting in the crowd just chilling, and me and Timmy going at it. And I knew I had to go at him. But Tim, man, much respect to Tim.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Draymond Green]

Did you. Did you cook him?

[Penny Hardaway]

You know what? I can't. I can't remember what the scores was. Honestly, I got to ask Tim about that. But I know, hey, if we played five games, I ain't lose all five games. You know, he was a murder in the league at the time, too, man.

[Draymond Green]

Yes, man. That's just crazy, though. I think about, like, my draft process and, like, for you to say my draft workout, I played against the team. Like, with all these rules and shit today, you. You could never do that. But that's. But, like, what better audition than to see you get out? Exactly. Like, what better audition than to see you get out there with the guys and play like.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, yeah. Defender. They had their best defender on me, who was Anthony Bowie at the time. That's the guy that they put on Mitch Richmond.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Penny Hardaway]

Mj. All these guys. Reggie cooking him. Yeah, yeah, that's my dog.

[Baron Davis]

Shout out to Bowie. He was in the machine. He was in the Washington.

[Draymond Green]

That's hilarious. So. So you enter the league in the east, obviously, going in with Shaq and Michael Jordan is dominating the league. What did you. What comes to mind for you about that first matchup? Like, bd, his first matchup with you is in UCLA gym. Right. Like, what was your first matchup with mj? And what comes to mind for you from that matchup?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, what was so crazy is he was retired at first. He came back wearing the 44 that year.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Penny Hardaway]

So we was the dudes in the league. So when MJ came back, I said, oh, okay.

[Draymond Green]

All right.

[Penny Hardaway]

All right. I know what I got to do because at this point, this is my second year. I'm ready. I'm rolling. And he came back, and he came back with Avengers. But that first matchup was. I had to let him know right away because he was that dude. Come on, now. He was the dude. So I was like, all right. I took him right to the post, did what I normally did, and was trying to. I was trying to put fear in him guarding me because I knew what he was going to try to do to me on the other end. So I was trying to hit first.

[Baron Davis]

That's amazing. Yeah, that was a battle. I mean. You know what I mean? Mike coming back 45. Like, when you saw Mike in 45, was you like, oh, he ain't in the 23.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I mean?

[Penny Hardaway]

So I didn't recognize the 45. I knew who that was. I was like, he's going to be a little rusty early, but this is mj. To just be able to come back midseason, bro, that's crazy. 55 against the Knick. He had double nickels against the Knicks.

[Baron Davis]

In the Garden the second game.

[Penny Hardaway]

Right, right. So I'm like, dog. All right, cool. So when he got into the building, it was 45. He was like, you know, it's MJ.

[Baron Davis]

But it's 45.

[Penny Hardaway]

But it's 45. But, man, we played them in the playoffs right after that, and, man, Nick Anderson stole his ball and we won the game off a steal. He came back the next game in the 23.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, wow.

[Penny Hardaway]

Said. He said, I'm out of the 45 and war. When he took his jersey off, everybody saw 23, and he looked at the crowd.

[Baron Davis]

Crazy.

[Penny Hardaway]

Beat us that game, Game two. To.

[Draymond Green]

To even have the NBA approve. That is crazy in itself, man.

[Penny Hardaway]

There was no rules like that. That's mj. He didn't care what David Stern rest in peace was saying, bro. He was like, I'm rocking this.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Penny Hardaway]

Y'all got all these rules today.

[Baron Davis]

Savage.

[Penny Hardaway]

None of that was going on back in the day.

[Baron Davis]

That's Savage and miss series. He changed his number. Let me get back. Yeah, y'all wind up.

[Draymond Green]

Y'all wind up getting him, though.

[Penny Hardaway]

We. They won game two, and we went to Chicago and won game games three and four.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, y'all wind up. Y'all wind up getting them. That was. That was an epic moment, you know what I mean? I feel like that kind of puts you in a whole nother stratosphere.

[Penny Hardaway]

Oh, no, it did. Big Mike is what they call him in Chicago. When you beat Big Mike, then you know you're doing something.

[Draymond Green]

Big Mike, you played. You played against mj. You played against Cole, and I think you played against Bron, right?

[Penny Hardaway]

Against who? Braun. Y'all played Bron, and I played against Magic.

[Baron Davis]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Penny Hardaway]

I played against. Came back. He came back for a couple games, and then he went right back out. He didn't even stay. He came back during that season, so I got a chance to play against all those dudes, man.

[Draymond Green]

So tell me, like, those guys. A lot of people talk about those guys being in the goat conversation. How do you look at that? Like, what do you. If you say, ah, this guy's the best or that guy's the best, how do you look at the whole goat conversation?

[Penny Hardaway]

Because I view it differently. Right? Because LeBron got the numbers. You got MJ, who had this innate way of just hitting 50 whenever he wanted and was crazy with it and winning championships, undefeated in finals. And then you had Kobe who mimicked mj, who had iq, who had toughness and who had shot making ability and won championships himself. So I put them in those categories. So LeBron is the numbers guy. He got the numbers. Like, that's the guy. He's. You got to give him that. MJ being a Guy. Undefeated in the finals. A guy that was, you know, first team, all defense. I can't remember how many times. I mean, come on, man. That's. That's the goat for sure. And then Kobe being a fearless, fearless warrior and champion who mimicked his game after mj, it's like, you gotta. You gotta have all of them 1A, 1A, 1A. But in their own different. In their own different ways. To me, and I'm not being political that, because LeBron is a power forward pretty much, you know, Kobe's two guard, MJ's two guard. But Kobe mimicked his game after MJ, and Kobe did a hell of a job. Rest in peace to Kobe.

[Draymond Green]

It's crazy.

[Baron Davis]

Hell of a job. Carbon copy and mj, it's like that. It's almost like you're trying to carbon copy the impossible, you know?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

And to actually do it, so.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, yeah. And to do it. So what Kobe had. What MJ had over. Kobe was so different. Or. Or I should say Kobe's approach versus MJ's approach. MJ was like, I'm giving all y'all at 70. Like, if I go to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, he did that 50, 50, 50. I don't know how two or three times in his career think about going 50, 50, 50. San Antonio, Houston, Dallas. What Kobe did when he had problems was, I'm marking Penny Hardaway down on my list, I'm marking Baron Davis down on my list. I'm putting Gary Payton on my list. I'm putting all these top dudes on my list, and I'm gonna knock them off one by one. MJ never see, he said, I ain't doing none of that. I'm just coming in and I'm killing y'all. So Kobe had to start off a little slower. Rookie year, he kind of struggled a little bit, beat a year in la, and then he just. You knew he was coming, though. But he made this list of names, and, boy, did he scratch off.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, he did.

[Penny Hardaway]

He scratched all the names off that list.

[Baron Davis]

And then, man, I want you to talk about. Cause to me, like, you see Magic Johnson and then the next iteration of somebody that's 6, 8, 6, 7 with dimes, offensive talent, leadership. Like, the next version was Penny Hardaway. How much of an influence did Magic have? You know what I mean? Or who are some of the people that you patterned your game after, you know, coming up?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, it was strictly Magic for me, because how he approached the game, you're talking about a fierce competitor, talking about Somebody that was happy to make everybody else better. You talked about somebody that was going to win at all costs. Champion, did whatever it took. Played five spots in the NBA. Who can say one guy played five spots like that throughout his career? And he was a PG 69 PG. He wasn't the most athletic, he wasn't the most. The fastest dude. He was getting picked up 94ft by guys. He understood IQ on how to get the ball into position when somebody bigger played him. He had all the shots he developed. The sky hook he posted up, he made. I mean, it was just ridiculous. So for me, it was magic all the way, man. Just watching him, amazing.

[Draymond Green]

A lot of. And you just mentioned him, Tim Hardaway, the Texas two step. But for us growing up, we call the Timmy, you know the twin cross. Yeah, that's the Timmy.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yes.

[Draymond Green]

Like for us growing up.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

Andrew Wiggins does this move. I knew exactly where it came from the first time I seen it and I was like, oh my God, he just hit him with the penny. How did you come up with that movie? You was doing it from three, which I think is absolutely insane. Like, people don't understand how far away the NBA three point line is from. To have the strength to do that move from three is insane to me. Like where. How did you come up with that move? And why do you think it is that more guys don't use it because you create so much separation with it.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, I think for me, you know, shout out to Keith Askins, who was one of the best defenders in the league. He was kind of overreactive. Any little flinch I made, he went for it. So me, I'm studying him every game. I'm like in that moment because I only used that move. You'll never see any that move ever in my career again. I was all about getting space and shifting you right. So I knew if he was going to go for the half spin, I had already planned it out in my head. And it just happened in the moment. I said, if I have spin this dude, he's going to be there because he was just that type of defender. And I'm just going to separate with a step back. And when I hit the half spin and saw him there, I just hopped back. He didn't know I was gonna do that. Obviously I did. And when I did it and shot it, I was in such a rhythm, man. I was. It was he check time. At that point, everything was going in. But that was one time I did that move and I never tried it again because my Mind just worked to try to shift you. And I knew what type of defender he was. And the reason why. To go to the second part of that question, guys don't do it anymore. Guys ain't playing D that hard in the league no more for them to actually have to try to do that. You know, they're basically killing. And you're a great defender. So you know what I mean by that? I'm not knocking.

[Draymond Green]

Absolutely.

[Penny Hardaway]

They're not playing D that hard to have to make you shift them like that for sure.

[Draymond Green]

No. You only got a couple guys that's like really picking a guy up in their chest like that. That's hawking the guy. But then also another thing is, though, you can't touch players today. Like, you impede any movement. But those, they call it a father.

[Baron Davis]

Dudes ain't afraid to. Like, dudes are afraid to get embarrassed, right? That's true. It's more like being afraid to get dropped or dunked on or in the highlights where it was more so, like, I feel like, you know your era and then a little bit, and then my era, it was more so you trying to get on Sports center, right?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah.

[Baron Davis]

So, you know, I just feel like it's just a difference. Like, dudes are nervous. Like, man, I ain't about to go hard on defense and then be sitting on the floor. You know what I mean? Nobody wants that.

[Penny Hardaway]

I look at. I look at the approach. Like Jay Z said in his line, y'all respect the one who got shot. I respect the shooter. Remember that verse. I respect the defender that gets up, and if he gets dropped, he gets back up and come at you again. I respect that more so than a shot, 1000%. So that's me.

[Draymond Green]

You know, when you look at the. When you look at the NBA, like you said, you've seen magic onto. I'm sure you still watch the NBA some today. When you look at it, who do you have your top three guys as far as handle that came through the league.

[Penny Hardaway]

Oh, that came through the league. Crawford is one of them for sure.

[Draymond Green]

Okay.

[Penny Hardaway]

Crossover Kyrie. And, man, it's a lot of guys that had bd, had crazy handles, but he wasn't. He was freakish with it as well. But you talking about guys that displayed it. Every move. BD was about blowing around you. But these guys are like, Kyrie, he'll hit you, beat you, pull back. We're talking about them type of guys. You all would do the same thing. So you're talking about. And then Steph has handles he could do whatever he wants with that thing, too, man. So. And then to be able to get that off from three with the same handle. So right now, I could put step in that category because, man, he works at it, and he gets separation better than no other. He don't need you notice this much room. But the big. The big guys with the handle to me were J.C. and. And. And Kyrie. Kyrie. And I'll put Stephanie.

[Baron Davis]

Rod Strickland, too. I always put Rock.

[Penny Hardaway]

Oh, no. Don't even stop me with him, bro. That dude was ridiculous. He was ridiculous. He was the Kyrie before Kyrie. I'm talking about just recently, but you're talking about handles.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Penny Hardaway]

Ross Strickland was. Was crazy with it, bro.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, his handles, crazy.

[Baron Davis]

You played against the straights, dude?

[Penny Hardaway]

I did.

[Baron Davis]

I did. Go ahead.

[Penny Hardaway]

Kenny Anderson.

[Baron Davis]

Kenny Anderson. Indiana said, hey, bro, he used to make me so mad in practice because he'd be killing, and you know how he is. He like, come on, yo. We just playing ball, yo. Come on, bd, Check up, yo. And I would be in practice, like, trying to foul him.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I mean?

[Baron Davis]

And he'd just be killing. I was like, I'm gonna lose my spot to this dude.

[Penny Hardaway]

You know, Shout out to Kenny.

[Draymond Green]

Well, speaking of the grace, though, that one debate that comes up all the time is the 96 Olympic team was better than the 92 dream team. Where do you stand as far as those teams go? Obviously, you were a part of the 96 team, but, you know, and seeing how those two teams went about.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, no, all our idols are on 92, bro. We bound out to 92. You got to. Bro, you got to show love and respect to 92. But we ain't bound out to nobody else, though.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, okay.

[Penny Hardaway]

Let's go.

[Baron Davis]

Let's go.

[Penny Hardaway]

Let's go through the matchup.

[Baron Davis]

Let's go through the matchup.

[Draymond Green]

Let me see.

[Baron Davis]

Let's go through the matchup.

[Penny Hardaway]

Come on. We can talk about that all day, right?

[Baron Davis]

Drake, go. What's the five?

[Draymond Green]

I'll be 100% honest. I want to flex my muscle a little bit. I got two of them things. But I'll be 100% honest. You know, I'm always. Keep it real. I'm not a part of some of the greatest Olympic teams of all times. I got on my first Olympic team because of some guys didn't want to go because of the Zika virus in Brazil. So a lot of guys ain't want to go. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, You're Gonna have to sting me with the mosquito.

[Baron Davis]

I'm gone.

[Draymond Green]

So I'm not going to sit here and even act like one of my Olympic teams could compete, because I'm sitting here looking at this team list, and, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to always keep it real. No chance. We would have probably. We had a good team, like, a really good team, but I'm just not sure our team could compete with this team. So I'm not. I'm not even going to do it.

[Baron Davis]

How would you think y'all match up with this past Olympic team, though?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, no, they. They were really good. You know, and it's just, to me, I mean, we had that. We had the big. You know what I mean? We had all the bigs. We had dreams.

[Draymond Green]

Charles Barkley, Grant Hill, Anthony Hardaway, David Robinson, Scottie Pippen, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Carl Malone, John Stockton, Shaquille O'Neal, Gary Payton, Hakeem Olajuwon. I'm sorry, I can't make that argument.

[Penny Hardaway]

That's a hell of a team, bro.

[Baron Davis]

Crazy. That's crazy.

[Penny Hardaway]

And shout out to GP. GP is my dog. GP got closer doing that Olympics in 96, because we was. We would. We would go. Every time you went to Seattle, you had a problem. You had to go to bed talking about gp. That dude was real. So we never listen. Everybody can debate their own Olympic team. Like Dre said, man, it was an honor to represent the country. Like you said, people didn't want to go. He went. Come on, bro. That was a blessing, bro. Ours was in the States, in Atlanta, which to me was even more special because my family could come.

[Baron Davis]

That's crazy.

[Penny Hardaway]

Even if it would have been out of the country, it would have been cool. But just to represent the country was cool.

[Draymond Green]

That's amazing. Yeah. I want to ask you a couple questions, and obviously, your Memphis team is playing incredible.

[Penny Hardaway]

I appreciate it.

[Draymond Green]

When you get into, like, the game today, and obviously, when you first got into it, had an issue with you and James Wiseman and past relationships and all this stuff.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

And now you look at the nil. How, in your view and being in it, has that changed? The college game. The college game as a whole.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, that whole.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Penny Hardaway]

The whole entire James Wiseman situation was by the judge. Saw how I saw it, you know, when I. When we retired from the NBA, bro, we go back and we do for our communities. Right. Even when we're in the league. And when I retired, I came home and I did for the community. I didn't do anything for James Wiseman on my high school team that I didn't do for anyone else over all the years from, you know, 93 all the way up. So that was my thing. And it just got misconstrued because of some hate and jealousy from some people. And they turned it into the ncaa, which became an investigation, and thank God that the judge saw how it really was. But fast forwarding until now, NIL has changed the whole demographics in a major way, because now it's not just about the athletes getting paid. Some are getting paid millions. And it's like, now there's no. There are no rules to the game. Like, you don't get fined. Like, in the league, you get fined if you show up late. You know, I think that's what it's going to turn into because we need some guard rails on this thing, because a player can get as much money as he wants, get all the time, get all the shots, get all he wants or whatever. And I'm speaking from what the coaches say around the country, but he could come to practice and go, yo, I'm not. I'm not feeling practice today. And you can't find them and go, well, we're finding you because you're not practicing. They still get their money, you know, and, you know, it's a beautiful thing for these, these young men to get paid, but it also, it's. It's. It's being taken out. It's getting a little out of hand, and we just got to get some guardrails.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. I was going to ask you. What, what, what is it? You know, whatever gift. There's a curse. You know what I mean? And so, you know, you kind of nil is sitting in this middle ground of. It can be great for families and things like that. But there's also. Yeah. You know, they are getting millions of dollars. You know, when we got millions of dollars, nobody gave us an instruction box how to manage a million dollars and alone, you know, being hard to manage. You know what I mean? And so, you know, I look at it as. It's a fine balance of helping people become successful and then enabling people to become, you know, ultimate, ultimately, like, failures to themselves if they don't make it.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah. I think it gives them an excuse as well of not to work hard to get to the league because they're making so much money, they can physically retire and say, well, if I don't make the league, I got this to fall back on. So the hunger to me and Dre knows this and you notice the hunger. You got to have to make it, you know? And a lot of these young men, they just don't understand. Obviously, the world has caught up and surpassed in some areas where they're being drafted. So American players, man, we got it even harder. So most guys are using the NIL for almost a backup plan, and it's helping families, which is a beautiful thing, but it's not driving them for more, you know, it's not driving them to be like, okay, I got this, Nil, but I still gotta go play. I still want to make it to my dream.

[Draymond Green]

That's interesting, because I felt like, you know, a part of wanting to make it for me was the struggle, like, not having food when I was in college. And I am totally on board with players getting paid because I think you create value in anything, you should make money. That's just the world we live in. And so I'm completely on board for that. But I do think NIL, in a sense by the NCAA is a setup. And I think it's a setup because to me, it felt like they were just like, all right, here you go. Let it blow up in your face. You know what I'm saying? Everything else, they want to put guardrails around and help guide it. But then the one. You know, the one thing that they finally give, it's like, hey, here's everything with no. With nothing to follow. No anything. And then, you know, there's an ugly side of it as well, where you're starting to see these kids coming out and saying they ain't get paid the money they were supposed to get paid, you know, and. But yet again, who. Who are you going to when that happens? Because there's no one governing. It's just what it is.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah. I think that when it happened, a lot of coaches already had, you know, foreseen that this was going to happen. What you're saying, like, the NCAA just took their hands off and go, all right, go to work. You know, and we don't have anything to do with it. You know, that's just you guys. And I think they're. They're going backwards to come back forwards by now by saying, all right, we're going to do the guardrails, because it's just. It's out of hand. And like you said, you should profit from things that you're associated with that are using your name, image, and likeness. I mean, it's just a part of it, but it's gotten to a point to where it's like, you said some coaches aren't paying players or they're saying they're not being paid. We don't know, but they're saying that. And it's not incentive based. It's just basically like it's yours. If you're making a million dollars, you're going to get your entire million dollars. And if you average seven points and three rebounds, you're still going to get your million dollars. You got that money.

[Baron Davis]

Talk about like coaching in this era, because you started without the nil. Now in nil, just talk about, you know, coming up in the league, the coaches you had and then, you know, coaching philosophy, how is that? You know, how have you evolved? You know, I would say from a player coach. And, you know, now in this new.

[Penny Hardaway]

Nil, yeah, I'm still the same, you know, because the way that I recruit these guys is we play out of concepts. We try to do everything Golden State does. Anybody in the league does that play out of concepts. Man, we don't have like a set system. You know, there are systems, and I don't knock those coaches. Coaches have been. And Coach Izzo has a great system, you know, and they play. They just have to play tough, but it works. It's a system that's. That's worked for. For years. But for me to stay in the know with the younger guys, for me, I just play out of concepts. You know, you pay, give the ball to Draymond, and we're going into split screens. We're screening for each other, we're getting the ball, we're getting downhill, we're kicking it, making one more. And then on defense, we're locking in and packing the paint or just pack line defense. So for me, I think it works for those guys because they can see through our system. They can look at Golden State play and go, wow, look at how they play. And then watch our film and we can show you the exact same things that we're doing in practice, the terminologies and everything that they're. They're using. So I think that gives me an edge as well.

[Draymond Green]

When you first got into the college game and you know, this could be just me because how big of a fan I am, but when you first got into the college game and you're walking into these living rooms as the Penny Hard way, was that too, I was that to a benefit or to a detriment? Because I think the first thing that people would think is, it's Penny, of course people want to be around you, of course, but you also run into A lot of people that want to use that against you, you know, like, they want to use your success, your name against you. Like, did you find that to be helpful or hurtful?

[Penny Hardaway]

It's two ways, though, Dre. The first way is the good way, because the parents were fans of mine. Most of those parents, they love the game. They got a kid that can play ball. They're like, man, I watched you. You were my favorite player. And from that side, it was great. But then there's so many coaches that bond together. There's a lot of haters. They go, don't go play there. It's not organized. It's all NBA stuff. And then I didn't only walk into the room by myself. I walked in with Mike Miller, and then I walked in with coach Larry Brown. Then I walked in with Rasheed Wallace. I had these guys on my staff, so look at what I'm rocking with, right? So I'm walking in with these guys. They, like, how could you say no? But from the flip side of that, though, there comes a lot of hate, because when we come from the league and I didn't, quote, unquote, pay my dues and was an assistant coach for five, six, seven years and didn't get the job, I just came right in. That makes a lot of people mad. So while these parents are oohing and ahhing and, man, we love you, they've got 20 phone calls from someone going, don't go there. Go here. Just don't go there. So there's so many people hating for young men not to come to me because they know the success that I'm gonna have and that they're gonna have 1,000%.

[Draymond Green]

I love it. I love it. Talk your shit, OG.

[Penny Hardaway]

That's it, though.

[Adnan Burke]

What's up, everybody? Adnan Burke here to tell you about a new podcast from iHeart podcast and the National Hockey League. It's NHL Unscripted with Firkin Demers.

[Jason Demers]

Hey.

[Penny Hardaway]

Hey.

[Jason Demers]

I'm Jason Demers, former 700 game NHL defenseman turned NHL Network analyst, and, boy, oh, boy, does daddy have a lot to say.

[Adnan Burke]

I love you, by the way. On NHL Network, we're looking forward to getting together each week to chat and chirp about the sport and all the other things surrounding it that we love. Right?

[Jason Demers]

Yeah, I just met you today, but we're going to have a ton of guests from the colliding worlds of hockey, entertainment and pop culture, and, you know what? Tons of back and forth on all things NHL.

[Adnan Burke]

Yeah, you're soon gonna find out we're not just hockey talk. We get all kinds of random stuff on this podcast. Movies, television, food, wrestling. Even the stuff that you wear in NHL.

[Jason Demers]

Now you wish you could pull off my short shorts, Ferkie.

[Adnan Burke]

That's short of cause of ruckus. Listen to NHL Unscripted with Burke and Demers, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Baron Davis]

Well, back to the Olympics, right? Because I always wanted to ask this, right? You come off an Olympic gold, right? Summertime, celebrating the gold. And then Shaq leaves the magic for the Lakers, bro.

[Penny Hardaway]

Worst day of my life right there. I ain't gonna lie. I knew the magnitude of that, bro. But here's the thing, though. That was so crazy. Shaq never told me he was leaving.

[Draymond Green]

Oh, wow.

[Penny Hardaway]

You know how you get into the. Dre knows this. Like, all of the international media was in there. In our interview with the entire team, we're on a panel and they're asking each one of us questions. And one guy goes, how does it feel not to have Shaq as a teammate? Grant Hill, right here. Gary Payton. I was like, looked at Charles Barkley. I'm looking. I'm like, if that happens, then that would be devastating. That's exactly what I said. And they was like, no, like, he's. He's. He's about to sign a multi year deal with the Lakers. I was like, well, if that's the case, then, you know, I wish him well. And then Shaq came to my room, either that day or the next day, knocked on my door, bro. And was like, bro, I'm sorry. I should have told you, bro. I was done. I was. It killed me, bro. It killed me. But I'm gonna tell you what happened. All of like, the. The entertainers in la. Terry west, rest in peace, was so smart. He knew Shaq wanted to be in movies. He brought him to la. You know, LA is beautiful. Even though Orlando is a family town. LA is different. Yeah, Shaq went there and they, man, they. They did everything. They threw everything at him. He forgot my name. He was like, what about Penny? He was like, who? Oh, no, you talking about Kobe and Nick Van Nexum and Eddie Jones and. Oh, yeah, I know them cats. But, yeah, no, I was. I was happy for him. But I knew what that meant to our franchise, bro. You can't lose that. But the thing that was so bad about that was the local media would always, like, poke the bear. Meaning, like, Shaq can't shoot free throws. We'll never win a championship. The fans say Shaq doesn't deserve all the money he's getting because he can't make free throw. They were doing that to him. And I was like, what are y'all doing? Like, dude, come on, y'all crazy. And I think Shaq got a little bit of that in there along with going to la. But I didn't know. Bd I was in the conference. Like, I didn't know.

[Baron Davis]

That's crazy. Wow. Damn, Shaq. But he came to the Lakers, though. You know what I mean?

[Penny Hardaway]

That's my dude, though, man. That dude. I love that dude to death. But he knew. He apologized a thousand times after that. Like, if I would have known now what I knew back then. But at the time, I felt like he made the right decision for his career monetarily and for championships because he went to a team that was willing to. And Orlando was going to do exactly what we needed to do to go out and get pieces as well. But Lakers, Orlando, new franchise versus the history.

[Baron Davis]

But he could have stayed in Orlando for two years because when he got to la, it took him a while to get there.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yep.

[Baron Davis]

So, you know, I always. And I love when he's saying, like, damn, I should have stayed with Penny, got us one, and then bounce.

[Penny Hardaway]

That would have been all right with me. Right.

[Baron Davis]

But, you know, it's like, you know, basketball has so many storylines, and everybody's story is, you know, interweaved with everybody else. It's just, you know, it's great to see, like, you know, when things come full circle, you know what I mean? And for him, you know, to big up you, to say, like, you one of the greatest players he's at to play with, you know what I mean? And, like, you getting your flowers now, especially, you know, I know you coaching, and so how them players are, you know what I mean?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah.

[Baron Davis]

But, like, they need to hear from us, like, how special and how important you are to us, because you open the floodgates to, like, oh, I can get out here and wiggle. Oh, basketball is entertainment, you know what I mean? But it's. There's a style to this killer, you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. That just. I mean, that motivated me, that motivated a whole generation of people, man. So, you know, I just always look at, like, your storyline, even with the knee injuries. With my knee injuries, and I say, man, there's so many parallels, but to be able to, like, share that moment with you, you know what I mean? Like, for me, I know it was hard, but for you, like, Just share a little bit about, you know, overcoming injuries. You know what I mean? What would have been? Cause I always think about that shit, too. Like, yeah, come on, you know, like, tell me what would have been, man.

[Penny Hardaway]

Like, yeah, it's crazy, man. Me healthy. I just, you know, I just know I could have did, like, way more damage. I wasn't a selfish player, but I just got it done, you know, in my way, and I wanted to win. And I would have. Not having any injuries, it would have been crazy. It definitely would have been crazy. And the same thing with you, bro. And the same thing with Dre. Dre didn't have the injuries we had. He's been like, you were just talking about people looking up to us. You know, back in the day, guys didn't really look up to defenders like that. But when Golden State was rolling and Dre was a huge part of it, I'm hearing guys in the gym going, I want to be Draymond coach. I don't need to shoot. And he. He set a standard outside of defenders and guys that hustle and scrap. And then this year, the three point shooting and just working on this game, and Kanzi going, okay, I don't have to shoot threes. I'm still going to win. But now I'm gonna show y'all I can add something else to my game. So for all of us, in our own way, touching lives, man, when people see Dre and Cubd and see me, they light up because they can identify success to us. They can identify hard work to us. They can identify being a great teammate, being somebody that respected the game and just wanted to ultimately win and it didn't matter what it took. So for me not being injured, man, I would have been the best teammate. I feel like I would have been one of the best winners because I would have did whatever it took to take the backseat to anybody that I played with to go and get that ring, man. It wouldn't have been no ego with me if we would have brought in younger players. And I was in my prime, wanted to win a championship, you would have no fuss out of me, bro. It would have just been, let's win. And I wanted to win, and I hate that I didn't, because watching the guys that have won, man, it's like watching them celebrate, bro, it just takes you back to be like, man, I just wish I had that moment.

[Baron Davis]

I wish I had that moment all the time. Like, if.

[Draymond Green]

I wish y'all had that moment, too, man.

[Penny Hardaway]

You done it over and over again.

[Draymond Green]

It's an incredible feeling. It's hard to put it into words. It's crazy, though, because when I did it the first time, it was, like, incredible, and it was like, wow. And then, like, after, like, a couple weeks of living on this cloud, I kind of went through this little small depression and, like, fear of, like, man, what if? I'll never feel that feeling again? And then when we did it again, what I've gotten every time since is that you get the most joy out of seeing the guys on the team that's now doing it for the first time.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, for sure.

[Draymond Green]

Because it can always. It always take you back to that moment of, like, wow. Like, I remember when I felt like that. Like, not that I'm not happy, like, it's. It's the best feeling, but I know that that joy right there is different, you know, because when you do it for that first time.

[Baron Davis]

Thank you.

[Draymond Green]

It's nothing like it.

[Baron Davis]

But.

[Draymond Green]

No, I'm sorry. Speaking of first time, you remember the first time, And I don't want to. Don't get me. The UCLA gym that we can't see. Do you remember the first time you played penny? He had 24 points that game.

[Baron Davis]

I was coming off the bench for the Charlotte Hornets, I believe.

[Draymond Green]

And Penny was with the Suns by then.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, he was in the Phoenix Suns. Eddie Jones was the shooting guard. And, you know, Eddie was my dog, too. Oh, yeah, Eddie was my dog. And, yeah, this goes to show, like, you know, Penny came in there. It was you and J. Kidd.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Baron Davis]

That was. Come on, dude. I watched. I don't even think I played in that game. Did I play? I played like, they wouldn't let me in the mix, bro.

[Penny Hardaway]

That's so crazy. That's so crazy, though. Bd. Talk about. I want to ask that question, because as great as you are, we're coming out, you had to sit to these veterans and you were like this young goon ready to go to work, and you just had to sit and wait your turn. Talk about how you did that.

[Baron Davis]

I don't know. I was just out when I got in, I think I was so hyped up, I would make mistakes, you know what I mean? And, like, you know, our margin for error was very minimal. You know what I mean? And the way Paul Silas coached, like, you had to spot up jumpers, go in the post. And when I got to Charlotte, I was like, damn. Like, when I first got there, we was moving, you know, pick and roll. I was showing what I can do. When they start Putting them plays in. It was like, oh, we don't fast break down here. You know what I mean? There was really no way to change the tempo. So I was like, damn, I'm not gonna get a chance. But I stayed in Charlotte after the season, and they said I couldn't shoot. So I worked on my shot. And then that's when I came back to la playing the real run. Drew. I just started. I started chasing every fade and every dude that had a good year, I was trying to pull up on him. The celebrity game, all that. And then that's. You know, it was almost like it was a good thing. But I still don't think it was good. Cause I felt like if I would have started, like, I could have been a game changer. But, you know, back then, Penny, you know how there's a hierarchy?

[Penny Hardaway]

Oh, no doubt.

[Baron Davis]

You know what I mean? And sometimes you gotta have one game or two games where you start to break through that mode. And I never gotta start my rookie year.

[Penny Hardaway]

But that's your testimony, bro. But guess what? You still that dude.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. Yeah, still that dude. When I came back, I started, you know, every game after that. David Wesley called me in the summer. He was like, hey, bro, just tell him don't trade me. I was like, bro, when I see you in training camp, bro, you better find a new position. I am not playing. And he wound up playing starting Shumgar for us.

[Penny Hardaway]

And David Wessie was tough, Penny.

[Draymond Green]

And just speaking on, you know, obviously you were with Orlando Magic, then you went to Phoenix. But again, I go back to the Orlando Magic times.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yep.

[Draymond Green]

Shaq Jersey just became the first Jersey to get retired in Orlando Magic history. Do you think you will and should get that call soon, personally, before you speak? I think so.

[Penny Hardaway]

I think so, man. But you know what was so crazy is T. Mac came behind me, and he wore number one, too. So I think both number ones, McGrady and Hardaway, need to be up in there. And I know you're talking about me. Cause Mac is my dog. But I think that number one needs to go down Hardaway and Matt, and we need to do it on the same night. Cause that's my dog. I don't need it on my own. I mean, we need to do that. Cause people.

[Baron Davis]

Y'All can get both number ones, but you definitely need your own night. Man. You got. You got way too many highlights, way too many accomplishments, like, we gotta have. You know what I mean? Like, as far as, like, the ones. Yeah, yeah, one of the ones, man. You know without barring any injuries, you're on that goat level. You know what I mean?

[Penny Hardaway]

No doubt. I was on the way.

[Baron Davis]

You was on your way. And there's always a debate, obviously, on who's Mount Rushmore. I want to know what does your Mount Rushmore look like? Like, who are your four players?

[Penny Hardaway]

I go old school so much, so I'm have to read. I go old school so much, man. But there's so much greatness in today's game, and that's played over the last 10 years. But if I'm going old school, old school, it's Shaq, it's mj, it's Kobe, and it's Ron. That would be my list. If you want, that would be the list. Besides me, if I'm going that route, it's just, you know, I have so much love for Steph. I have so much love for so many people, bro. It's just. It's crazy, man, because they talk about the best point guard. Is Steph a point guard? Is he a shooting guard? What are we talking about? Yeah, I'm just saying. What is he?

[Draymond Green]

Point guard.

[Penny Hardaway]

That's what I'm saying. So when we talk about greatest point guards, bro, how can you leave the Lord? He's a. I remember saying a long time ago, that dude is an assassin, bro. He got the baby face. That dude is an assassin, man. What he's done to the game, you cannot leave him out of any conversation.

[Draymond Green]

That's a fact. He a point guard. You know why Steph's a point guard? And I think. I think people asking, you know, you. You have the whole theory of is the glass half has half empty, is the glass half full?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

I think people asking, is Steph a point guard or shooting guard as a compliment to Steph, because the reason they asked the question is because of how well he shoots the basketball.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yes.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

And so you shoot the basketball so well that everyone wants to make him a shooting guard. But the reality is a lot of his shots are off the dribble. Number one didn't shoot off the dribble. When you talk about prototype prototypical shooting guards, most prototypical shooting guards was one or two drip bounces into their spot and pulling up one or two bounces to the cut. That was a two guard. And so I think it's such a compliment to him when people say that, because you shoot the ball that well. But here's the thing, when you talk about why he's a point guard is if you've ever watched Stephen and I've seen all of them. I'm blessed to say that the amount of coverages that he's seen and had to read, like quarterbacks read coverages, point guards read coverages. The amount of coverages that Steph has had to read and being guarded, Braun has not seen, Kobe has not seen, MJ has not seen. There is not a person in NBA history that has seen the amount of defenses and different type of coverages that Steph Curry has seen. And to navigate that, still average almost 7 assists per game on a career plus his points. And to get those reads. So for instance, Steph is averaging six and a half, six, six assists. I'm averaging seven and a half, eight. I'm averaging those assists off of him making a quick read and getting me the ball and then allowing me to do what I do. But the quarterback still had to hit me on the route.

[Adnan Burke]

Right?

[Draymond Green]

Like, that's why I say like, no question he's a point guard, but it's the ultimate compliment because you're so great at a thing that they want to make you that other thing.

[Baron Davis]

That's. You know what? You know what it is? It's. He's a point guard who scores the way a shooting guard was traditionally supposed to score. Like point guards don't really, you know, like over the history of the league, put up 50s and 40s and things like that. So when you see somebody like even you, Penny, like I asked you, are you a point guard? Of course.

[Penny Hardaway]

Right.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I mean?

[Baron Davis]

When you play with Jason Kidd, you still a point guard, you a combo guard. And so now Steph has been called a hybrid guard. I say Penny Hardaway, point guard, point God. Steph Curry, point God. Because he just revolutionized the way we play, you know what I mean? Like, nobody in, you know, I've never seen somebody score shooting guard points at the point guard position night in and night out, you know what I mean? I feel like Marbury was maybe one of the most potent point guards score for sure. Shout out to Iverson was a, was a shooting guard, you know what I mean? And so like Steph is doing what Iverson is doing from the point guard position. And so it messes people's equilibrium up because that's not what you traditionally see.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah. And it's like Dre said, Iverson saw man to man coverage. He saw double teams. But it's like he said, Steph has seen every coverage imaginable. But his iq, along with Dre's IQ and the way that Steve has the office flowing, if we can give him that credit.

[Draymond Green]

Absolutely.

[Penny Hardaway]

That marries everything together in a perfect form for how he plays the game. And then most of his shots are coming from him screening him slipping the screen, him getting the dribble handoff, him throwing it and zooming in and chasing it and getting the shot and being able to make those shots while making those decisions. And I think he's gotten more. He's gotten more backdoor cuts in his career in the last two or three years than I've ever seen, because now he's reading them, overplaying them. He's getting the back doors, and Dre's leading them before he moves, like, throwing them open. So I'm watching all this, like, man, it's unreal. He's been blessed to have Dre because everybody couldn't have been in the position Dre is in. Throwing somebody open versus throwing somebody a pass. It's two totally different things. He has to see him open and see the vision of where that ball needs to bounce for Steph to just get into that ball and just lay that ball up. So that's the beauty of the whole thing at Golden State that I marveled over, man. And I imagine myself playing in that system with those two dudes. That would be stupid. And you BD US 4, baby. Let's go.

[Draymond Green]

Come on, man.

[Baron Davis]

I come off the bench, I ain't tripping. That's me now, baby. Hey, bro.

[Draymond Green]

Hey, bro.

[Baron Davis]

I am not tripping. Let me come off the bench. You know what I mean?

[Draymond Green]

Yes, sir. No, that's fire.

[Adnan Burke]

What's up, everybody? Adnan Burke here to tell you about a new podcast from iHeart podcast in the National Hockey League. It's NHL Unscripted with Virkin Demers.

[Jason Demers]

Hey, I'm Jason Demers, former 700 game, NHL, NHL defenseman turned NHL Network analyst, and boy, oh, boy, does daddy have a lot to say.

[Adnan Burke]

I love you, by the way. On NHL Network, we're looking forward to getting together each week to chat and chirp about the sport and all the other things surrounding it that we love. Right?

[Jason Demers]

Yeah, I just met you today, but we're going to have a ton of guests from the colliding worlds of hockey, entertainment and pop culture. And you know what? Tons of back and forth on all things NHL.

[Adnan Burke]

Yeah, you're soon going to find we're not just hockey talk. We get all kinds of random stuff on this podcast. Movies, television, food, wrestling, even the stuff that you wear on NHL.

[Jason Demers]

Now you wish you could pull off my short shorts, Virky.

[Adnan Burke]

That's Short of Kazaruckas. Listen to NHL Unscripted with Vir and demers, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Baron Davis]

You've been on Memphis since. Since 2018. What? We. Yeah. What? What? Oh, yeah.

[Draymond Green]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, bet I'll go there.

[Baron Davis]

Okay.

[Draymond Green]

Okay. Bet I'll go there.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

All right. So I'm. I'm a big fan of the current Orlando Magic team. It's crazy because if you go back and date these podcasts early. Well, during the draft year of Paulo Bankero, everybody was saying Jabari Smith Jr would be the. Should be the number one pick. And I actually love Jabari Smith game. So this ain't a slight at all. But I said on. On this podcast, I said, yo, everybody talking about Jabari Smith being the number one pick. To me, Paolo Bancaro is the number one pick. And they end up taking the intel from the Draymond Green Show. And they did the right thing and they drafted Paolo, but they also did a great thing. They drafted Fran Wagner. You just said if you were with us, how that would have been? How would you have foreseen playing with those two young guns? They both would be all stars this year if they were playing. Paolo's been hurt for a while, and, friend, I don't know if his games is going to end up being enough to ultimately make it, but how could you saw yourself fitting in with those young guys that you got over there in Orlando right now?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah. No. First of all, shout out to Jamal Mosley, man, the Orlando Magic, they did a great job on choosing him because he paid his dues, bro. So I'm happy for him. Done a phenomenal job with his staff of knowing who's who. He knew Paolo was that guy and for me to play in that system. And like I said with Franz, he's hurt. He's injured as well. He might be out for weeks, so he's injured as well. But with those guys healthy, all I would have done is just fed off those guys. And whenever I needed to take over the game, I would. But I would let them know, hey, I got y'all back, and no matter what, let's go win. And I would have been the ultimate teammate. That's just who I was. I just wanted to win. And you use that youth and that talent and you just get with them in the gym. We would have gotten the gym a lot so that they could learn who I was and who they were. Then we would watch film a lot just to Try to get them to understand what the league was all about and how they could get an advantage on being young guys against veteran guys or guys in the league already. And Paulo came in just destroying from the beginning anyway. So that's what I would have done. Man, it would have been fun to play with that group.

[Draymond Green]

What, what do you think is next? Like, obviously they got to get healthy and although I think they're having a great year, I don't quite think they're at that contender level yet. What do you think needs to happen for that team? Obviously those two guys are staples, not going anywhere. I'll be there for the next 10 years if they want to be. But what do you think that team needs to do in order to continue to take that next jump and take advantage of these young guys? You want to take advantage of these guys while they on low salaries. Because once the salaries get too big, you start having to pluck pieces. And Franz just got paid. Paulo will.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, I think what you have to do is you got to get smart vets. The guys like back in the day was like a James Posey or Tony Allen or David West. Guys like that, that are true professionals that know how to win, they still have enough game that can get in the game and kind of help manage them, kind of help understand that I'm going to take the best forward in the game. If I'm a forward, you take the second level forward. And watch how I do this. If I'm a guard that comes in, let me take the high level guard. You take that and just kind of teach them how to win. And I think that's the next level for Orlando. And it's beautiful a city as Orlando is, man, with all to offer. They don't get vets. They want to go there. And I understand, but in another way I don't because this team is up and coming. But they're going to need some. Somebody that can get down there and kind of recruit vets in there. When I was in Orlando, the Orlando Magic hired Dr. Dr. J. Julius Irvin to come in.

[Draymond Green]

Yes, sir.

[Penny Hardaway]

To try to help recruit some vets in there, man. And Dr. J did a great job. So they need some guys they can get some bets in there to go. You can't go all young. It's not gonna work. Yeah, they need some blue guys.

[Draymond Green]

I agree with that. I definitely agree with that. That's a problem around the league. A lot of places, people start getting rid of vets because the tax, you know, penalties are so big and that $3 million that a vet will make, as opposed to the million dollars, ends up costing $14 million, as opposed to two and a half, and people start getting rid of vets. But I think the effect that it has on these organizations, like, you can say that $14 million if you want to. And don't get me wrong, $14 million is a lot of money. But in the grand scheme of these teams, you can try to save that $14 million if you want to. But your young guys end up turning into guys that never learn how to do it on their own. They have to then go get with somebody else because they didn't have a vet to show them how to do it right. So then they go get the game, and then it's like, oh, I got the game now. All right now. But you kind of miss your window, you know what I'm saying? Like, Steph is Steph, because he was able to push through that window when he got the opportunity in year five. You know, like, you start looking at guys who did it and pushed through their windows. They probably had some great vests around them. Like, we had incredible vests. You know, when I speak of Stephen, we had. Bogut was great, you know, D. Lee, but we had Jerry Jack come through there. We had Jermaine O'Neal come through there. We had Richard Jefferson come. Like, we had great vets come through there. Then David west came in, and even though we had one championship still, we were still young, so we would still get wild. D. West, Andre coming. The game. They settled the game down. Like, we needed that. Although we had one championship before, it was like, yeah, we know how to win and we got the skill, but we needed those young. We come out there, me and Steph be fucking throwing it out of bounds. I throw it over here. He going that way. He done ran the other way, like. Yeah, but, you know, to your point of passing them open, sometimes that happens, you know, and, like, they come in and it's like, all right, now, here we go. You know, and these teams don't have that. And it's a problem.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, that. That hurts me deeply, man. Watching. I was at an Aces game this summer, and I was sitting next to John Wall. That just doesn't sit well with me, bro. I know what happened in Washington, bro. But this man can help a team just for that main reason. Long as the veterans understand when you come in there what it's all about. Yeah, I think that he deserved. What if he was in Orlando to try to help out those young guards. I'M just saying. I'm just giving names, man. It's just, to me, they're just not veterans.

[Baron Davis]

It's a lot of.

[Penny Hardaway]

A lot of guys.

[Baron Davis]

Knowledge, man. It's like, you need the knowledge. Yeah. When you got the. The knowledge relatable, sometimes you just can't relate to that young coach who just got out of college. Just want to, you know, watch film and get rebounds for you. You need somebody that got stories or can watch the film and tell you what's coming or how you fit in or. No, you ain't that. You are more like this. You know what I mean? And so having that insight, you kind of lose that, you know, with the vet, with not having a vet in the room. And so that young dude, he don't develop. He wind up going, getting traded, getting traded, getting traded. And then it's, you know, luck of the draw for some of these really young, talented kids to find that team at some point and stick. And, you know, it's just not having veterans who can identify if they're going to be good or not. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes, hey, coach, chill out, man. He going to be all right. I got him. You know what I mean? And you need that personal care. And. And that's not being exemplified, I don't think, on hardly any of these rosters. But that's the difference between, you know, the teams that want to win championships and develop young talent and the teams that want to stay in the middle of time.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, for sure. Sure.

[Draymond Green]

No doubt. You know, and we. And. And just speaking of vets, obviously, like you said, been at Memphis since 2018. Is a dream of yours still to coach in the NBA at some point?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, for sure. I definitely want to coach in the NBA. Man, I get my juices flowing when I sit in the arena. When you gave me those seats, I'm just watching y'all going, man. I could. Because I feel like I can help a lot of young guys, Dre, because I know the game. I played the game. They still respect my brand and who I am. I feel like my game is. My coaching is really built more for the NBA than college. I'm happy to be here because I'm home. It's come full circle. I love my city. I love my school, but ultimately, I've mentioned this before. I want to be in the NBA. I don't know where that's going to be, but I want to help. Help somebody win. I want to help players get better. I want to be a part of something, whether it's just starting or whether it's on the cusp of winning a championship, I'm fine either way, man, because I'm a grinder. So. Definitely want to coach an NBA.

[Baron Davis]

I definitely want to see you in the league, man city. I mean, just I feel like your knowledge with the pros, you know what I mean? And just your insight with the pros and even watching Memphis, just your concepts, like all of those are pro schemes, pro concepts. And you need professionals, you know what I mean? And it's like, man, if you can work with the talent, professional high level talent and get into their psyche and give them what you got, that's what the league needs, you know what I mean? And these coaches that have been there, coaches who have played, you know, and coaches who have paid their dues, that's been around these young kids. For someone like you who got endless amount of stories and you lived it, you know what I'm saying? You're like, you are really about this life. I would love to see that with top tier talent, you know what I mean?

[Penny Hardaway]

I just think it's about building relationships with the guys because when I get there, because I'm gonna be there, it's just about building a relationship with the young studs like Apollo and those guys, you know, and it's, it's something that I enjoy, man. I'm a ball. I'm a gym rat. I'm a ball guy. I live in the gym. I love the gym. I told that to the Orlando Magic a couple years ago. I am a gym rat, bro. I love it like a Kaminga. You know those guys, man, it's just to watch film, to talk to them every day, to be a part of their lives. All these guys that have the, the ability to go to the next level that a franchise is waiting on. I said this to a GM a couple years ago, that's a good friend of mine. I was like, man, whenever I come, I'm coming hard because I'll be excited. It'll be like being a rookie to me all over again because I would be as coaching, but I'll bring so much to the table with those guys.

[Draymond Green]

So I'm from Saginaw, Michigan, and I've always heard stories about. I don't know the history, but I know at one point your agent was from Saginaw.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, yeah, the Poston brothers.

[Draymond Green]

Absolutely. And so I've always heard these stories about. And then I try to incorporate it with my own knowledge and my own experiences. I know in signing with Nike for most Guys, Nike owns the logo that then goes on your shoe. I was always told that you, through your agent, y'all came up with the idea of the $0.01 logo and that you owned your own logo. And I want to say, is that true? And if so, what was the idea behind that? Because that One Penny logo is legendary.

[Penny Hardaway]

I'm going to be very honest. Nike owns 1% more than me. They own. They own the logo, but it's like, I'm right there. So, yeah, it's not like I own my own logo. I wish. And I was talking about this to my agents some years ago, because mj, the way he gets it done, I was like, man, I should have tried to get my own logo and own elo, But Nike's so smart. They've been a blessing to me, bro. You know how Nike is, man. It's the first class. First class all the way. Still making my shoes. But I wish I owned my own logo, but I own them. I own a lot of it, a large percentage of it. But it's just a marriage that. To me, that just fits, man, because they put me on the map, you know, along with my game, and they pumped me out there and they did what they had to do so that. I wish your story was true. It's still, you know, I own a large majority. I don't own the entire entire logo.

[Draymond Green]

That's incredible. I love Nike, man.

[Baron Davis]

I got to. I got to ask about Little Penny, since we on the one.

[Penny Hardaway]

Little Penny was crazy, man. It's just. It was this advertising agency that worked for Nike called Wieden and Kennedy. And, man, they came up. Stacey Wall is the guy's name. They came up with the alter ego. Because I was just a silent assassin, and Little Penny was. He was the talker. He was the guy. He was up. He ain't gonna say it, but I'm gonna tell you, my man's about to bust you up. So that worked out, man. And to me, it was comedy because it was Chris Rock. And I heard that they went after Martin Lawrence back in the day. I heard that they went after Damon Wayans, maybe even Will Smith, maybe, you know those guys. But when Chris Rock wasn't the Chris Rock at the time, he took it. And I think it's not a better voice for that character, man. He took it to another level.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, man. He made it feel like that was like your real homeboy, you know what I mean? Like, we felt like Lil Penny was like, hey, man, that gotta be his partner. He gotta be made off of, like, one of your best friends and, like. Hey, shut up, homie. Hey, be quiet. That character is, I mean, utterly iconic. You know me as a, you know, entertainer, a writer, a creator, man. I look at that little penny as a reference for, you know, a lot of things that, you know, I do creatively. But, I mean, as far as, like, the dynamic that.

[Penny Hardaway]

Oh, man, they did a phenomenal job, bro. Phenomenal, man.

[Baron Davis]

The pool party, dog.

[Penny Hardaway]

The super bowl party. The pool party. Tyra Banks, the whole deal.

[Baron Davis]

The Tyra Banks. That was crazy.

[Penny Hardaway]

That was crazy, bro. Shout out to Nike, man. Phil Knight, my guy.

[Draymond Green]

That's legendary, man. Top five point guards ever. We. We like a good list. Top five point guards.

[Baron Davis]

This one down.

[Penny Hardaway]

Bro. I'm starting with Magic, because that's my guy. I'm putting Steph in there for sure.

[Draymond Green]

Right?

[Penny Hardaway]

It's tough for me, man. So many times I'm gonna throw my boy GP in there because he played both sides of it. I'm going G.P.

[Baron Davis]

Absolutely. Absol. Absolutely.

[Penny Hardaway]

You gotta put J. Kidd in there. J. Kidd.

[Baron Davis]

Absolutely.

[Penny Hardaway]

J. Kidd.

[Baron Davis]

It get tough, man.

[Penny Hardaway]

It get real tough. And I got so many guys, man, like, you got C.P.

[Draymond Green]

You got John Stockton.

[Baron Davis]

You got Steve Nash. Steve Nash.

[Penny Hardaway]

I'm thinking about all the dream teams here, man. I might. I might go.

[Baron Davis]

Steph, Magic, Gary Payton, Jason Keane.

[Penny Hardaway]

Oh, I know I'm in that five. But I'm just saying the other person. I'm just saying me, that's where I'm leaving. Okay.

[Baron Davis]

Done.

[Penny Hardaway]

Done. That way we can leave it there. But I'm not slighting anybody else, because I'm a huge fan of a lot of people, bro. All those guys, Stockton and all those guys. But, you know, you got to have someone that, you know you like more than others. And those are my guys, those guys that I named, so. And they were all legend. They're all legends.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, for sure. 1,000%. I mean, the reality is those. It's hard to make a list, man. It's the NBA. It's the greatest players ever. Like, it's never going to be easy to make a list. And someone's always going to be left off of somebody else's list. That's just the way it is.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah. Cause I know an awful lot of guys list. They're naming their guys, so it is what it is. But I know they still respected my game, so it's all good.

[Draymond Green]

Last one before we get out of here. What do you see for your Memphis basketball team achieving this year? Y'all off to an incredible starting. Starting up conference play.

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

What do you foresee for this group that you currently have?

[Penny Hardaway]

Yeah, I got a special group of guys, man. Obviously, making the NCAA tournament is the number one thing, and when you get into the tournament, you know that anything can happen. I'm the guy in my seventh year now. I've gotten so much more wiser about how I see things. I want to be the best team playing in March. You know, I've never really said that. I've said I want to make the NCAA tournament. We want to win a championship. But I've learned to continue to grow every single day. And once you get in, you have as great a chance to beat anybody on any given night. So I give us a chance against anybody on any given night when you have one day in between, you know, so for me, making the tournament, staying healthy, and then being the. Growing every single day and being the best team in March, we can. We can make some noise. Amazing.

[Draymond Green]

Oh, gee, we appreciate you, man.

[Penny Hardaway]

I appreciate y'all, too, man.

[Baron Davis]

Your God point, guys, Man, Appreciate it so much.

[Penny Hardaway]

Sir. Yes, sir.

[Draymond Green]

The volume.

[Adnan Burke]

What's up, everybody? Adnan Burke here to tell you about a new podcast. It's NHL Unscripted with Virgin Demers.

[Jason Demers]

Jason Immers here, And after playing 700 NHL games, I got a lot of dirty laundry to air out.

[Adnan Burke]

Hey, I got a lot to say here, too, okay? Each week, we'll get together to chat about the sport that we love.

[Jason Demers]

Tons of guests are going to join in, too. But we're not just going to be talking hockey, folks. We're talking movies, we're talking tv, food, and Adnan's favorite wrestling. It's all on le Table.

[Adnan Burke]

Listen to NHL Unscripted with Virk and demers, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.