The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Tim Hardaway Sr. on Heat suspending Jimmy Butler, LeBron vs. MJ & Top 5 Warriors | Draymond & Baron

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Episode: The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Tim Hardaway Sr. on Heat Suspending Jimmy Butler, LeBron vs. MJ & Top 5 Warriors | Draymond & Baron

Release Date: January 29, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Description: In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, Draymond Green and Baron Davis host NBA legend Tim Hardaway Sr. to delve into pressing NBA topics, including the Miami Heat's suspension of Jimmy Butler, comparisons between LeBron James and Michael Jordan, and an exploration of the Golden State Warriors' top five players.

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1. Introduction and Guest Welcome [02:20]

Draymond Green opens the show by introducing the guest, Tim Hardaway Sr., a Hall of Famer and father of NBA player Tim Hardaway Jr. Baron Davis shares his admiration for Hardaway Sr., mentioning, “You was the dude I patterned my game after.”

2. Miami Heat's Suspension of Jimmy Butler [04:07]

The conversation shifts to the Miami Heat's decision to suspend star player Jimmy Butler. Tim Hardaway Sr. criticizes the team's management, stating:

"You let Jimmy Butler come in and say this and that... enough was enough." [04:33]

He emphasizes Butler's value to the team but questions the management's handling of his commitment:

"Pat is in the driver's seat... Jimmy needs to just go out there and play and let the chips fall where they may." [44:33]

3. Challenges in Trading High-Value Players [47:39]

Discussing the complexities of trading high-salary players like Butler, Tim explains the difficulties teams face due to salary caps and contract structures:

"It's hard to trade a guy that make $52 million a year... it's hard to create that type of cap space." [48:58]

Baron Davis concurs, highlighting the logistical hurdles in orchestrating fair trades under the current league rules.

4. LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan [70:14]

A comparative analysis between two basketball giants unfolds as Draymond Green references a clip where LeBron claims to be "unguardable." Tim Hardaway Sr. recounts personal experiences witnessing LeBron's prowess:

"You could feel his presence... you knew that he was going to be in the NBA." [70:33]

This segment underscores the enduring legacy and impact both players have had on the game.

5. Top 5 Golden State Warriors Players [25:03]

The discussion evolves into evaluating the top five players in Warriors history. Tim Hardaway Sr. lists legends such as Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond, Sleepy Floyd, Rick Barry, and Nate Thurmond, sharing anecdotes about each:

"Camaraderie, camaraderie, friendship... that's what made us so good." [25:11]

Baron Davis adds his appreciation for the Warriors' legacy, stating, “Warriors birth legends, man.” [28:41]

6. Reflections on NBA Culture and Hierarchy [05:05]

Tim Hardaway Sr. and Baron Davis delve into the evolution of NBA culture, particularly the diminishing sense of hierarchy and respect for referees:

"There's no hierarchy in the league anymore. No one has to earn anything." [09:53]

Tim reminisces about earlier days when referees communicated directly with players, fostering mutual respect and accountability.

7. Personal Anecdotes and NBA Experiences [12:07]

Tim shares stories from his playing days, highlighting interactions with fellow players and the importance of mentorship:

"Chris Mullen always set the bar... he came out, worked on this game an hour before practice." [05:03]

These narratives emphasize the value of teamwork, discipline, and respect within the NBA.

8. Impact of Leadership and Team Dynamics [19:24]

The conversation touches on how leadership shapes team dynamics. Tim advises young players to respect and adhere to team protocols:

"A lot of these guys... they just don't adjust to the referees that don't like them." [14:18]

He underscores the necessity of listening to coaches and veterans to succeed in the league.

9. Closing Remarks and Future Outlook [81:55]

As the episode wraps up, Tim Hardaway Sr. encourages authenticity and integrity in sports:

"You got to listen and understand what's going on... keep inspiring these kids." [80:09]

Draymond Green and Baron Davis express their gratitude, affirming the importance of honest conversations in sports media.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tim Hardaway Sr. on Jimmy Butler's Commitment:

  "Pat is in the driver's seat... Jimmy needs to just go out there and play and let the chips fall where they may." [44:33]

• Tim Hardaway Sr. on NBA Hierarchy:

  "There's no hierarchy in the league anymore. No one has to earn anything." [09:53]

• Baron Davis on Warriors' Legacy:

  “Warriors birth legends, man.” [28:41]

• Tim Hardaway Sr. on Teamwork:

  "Chris Mullen always set the bar... he came out, worked on this game an hour before practice." [05:03]

Key Takeaways

• Management Decisions Impact Team Dynamics: The Miami Heat's handling of Jimmy Butler's role and commitment raises concerns about leadership priorities and team cohesion.

• Enduring Legacy of Legends: Discussions on LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan and the Warriors' top players highlight the lasting influence of basketball icons on the sport.

• Evolving NBA Culture: The decline in hierarchical respect and direct communication with referees points to broader shifts in NBA culture and player conduct.

• Importance of Mentorship and Teamwork: Personal stories from Tim Hardaway Sr. emphasize the significance of listening to coaches, respecting veterans, and fostering strong team relationships for success in the NBA.

• Challenges in Player Trades: Financial constraints and contract complexities make trading high-value players like Jimmy Butler a challenging endeavor for NBA teams.

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This episode offers a deep dive into NBA dynamics, blending personal anecdotes with critical analysis of current team strategies and league-wide trends. Listeners gain valuable insights from seasoned professionals who underscore the importance of integrity, teamwork, and strategic leadership in basketball.

Transcript

[T-Mobile Representative]

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[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirror ball trophy from Dancing With a Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ashlyn Harris]

We all have a moment that splits us wide open. On my new podcast, Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, I'll sit down with trailblazers from sports, music, fashion, entertainment and politics to explore their toughest moments and the incredible comebacks that followed. Listen to Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, an iHeart women's sports production on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports the volume.

[Draymond Green]

What'S Up Everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green show with my Brother, My Dog bd. What's happening?

[Baron Davis]

What's up my dog? Follow the show on all social media platforms. Draymond show so you don't miss the show's announcements.

[Draymond Green]

Today's guest we got created one of the coldest moves in basketball and I'll give it the nickname after I'll let y'all know the nickname that at least in my like it has a nickname. But in my Area where I grew up at it has a specific nickname. So I'll get into the nickname after I announce this. But this guy, he's a hall of famer, five time NBA all star, five time all NBA member, Olympic gold medalist. His number 10 jersey is retired in Miami. He is famous for the UTEP2 step, which in my farts we just call it the Timmy. You hit somebody with the Timmy. That's what it is. It ain't no UTEF two step. You hit him with the Timmy. That's what we called it. Father of NBA vet Tim Hardaway Jr. Chicago's own none other D. Tim Hardaway Senior. What's happening, O.G.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Nothing much, man. Nothing much. You know, I always listen to y'all show and listen to both of you guys. Always wanted to come on and just be a guest on here. Cause y'all. Y'all be saying the realest stuff. Y'all always real, you know, and y'all. You know it. That's what people need to hear. People don't need to hear all this fabrication. That's what I like about you guys, man. I. I've been wanting to come on here for a long time, and I'm glad I'm able to make it tonight, man.

[Baron Davis]

We appreciate you OG the legend. You know, I remember I got a chance to tell you I used to wear the Tim Hardaways with the x. Wore size 10, but the shoes was like eight and a half. And I bust. I busted for two years, you know. You know, the Utah two step. Just to me, you was the dude that I patterned my game after. You was the dude. You was that dog that when I watched you play, I was like, oh, yeah, like, this is the. This is. This is the fabric I need to come to the game with, you know what I mean? And then even get a chance to play against you, you know what I mean? Like, you brought that dog out of me, you know what I mean? And yeah, you know. Yeah. And in honor of you, bro, I have officially cut my hair and went bowing. Yes, sir. Look, I'm getting back to the essence.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I mean?

[Baron Davis]

Look.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought I'm about to come couple of weeks ago.

[Draymond Green]

He was ball a few days ago, trying to make a comeback.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Let me tell you a story about Baron. So Baron, it was Baron's first year in with the Charlotte Hornets.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

And him. Him and Wesley what's name.

[Draymond Green]

David West. David west play with them on the game.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

He said, he said I was going at Baron. And David said, man, why you going at my rookie like this. I said, man, I'm gonna tell you this. I probably got another maybe four or five more years left. He got another probably 13, 14 years. I'm gonna give it to him while I got it, because when it's at my time, he's definitely going to embarrass me. And that's what he did in that playoff series. He embarrassed me. I couldn't even stick him. I was slow footed and I was like, damn, is it that bad? Is it that bad? You know, when he went in, I was like, oh, wait. I was like, oh, man. You know, I got. Wow. You know, but I mean, but you know, they was ready for it. They was ready for it. They was ready for it. Charlotte Kane and bust our butt.

[Baron Davis]

That was my first playoff start, right? And man, you gotta think, all I've been doing since I got taped in a VCR and watch basketball, I've been watching you. So. Hey, Tim.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Well, you gave it to me. You gave it to me. Like I. Like, I gave. Like, I gave it to you, your rookie. You gave.

[Baron Davis]

You killed me. Yeah. I was so nervous because I knew you cross half court, you like to point and run the. The floppy and pull up.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Baron Davis]

So I was like, I'm not letting him get in no brain. I don't care if he limping, none of this. I'm about to stick to this dude like glue. And that was my job. I was like, man, I was so nervous, bro, because I was like, yo, this is my dude. And then you pop me with an elbow. And that just woke me up. I was like, okay, okay, this is real. Like, he don't like me.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I gotta get right. It was nothing personal. It was just business.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, it was. That's all it was.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

It was just business. That's all it was.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, it was, man. We.

[Draymond Green]

We had. We had our team awareness meeting today in Dirt. Minifield was there. Durk was asking me, Dirk said, what's wrong with the game today? And it's funny to hear you say he hit you with the elbow. Because I was telling Dirk. Dirk's like, what's wrong? Like, what you got for me? I said, I'm gonna tell you one of the things that is really wrong and it's really bad. And so I told Dirk, I said, everybody complained about the league being soft and too many foul calls and all, et cetera. I said, dirk, the problem is there's no hierarchy in the league anymore. I said, so for instance, you hitting BD with the elbow, like When Porzingis came into the league, and different young guys like that when I was on my way up. And then, like, you know, in my space as an All Star, I want to, like, show them guys and try to instill a little fear in those guys, just because I would say, I know it's gonna come a time where in a few years, that dude gonna be unstoppable. And if I can instill a little bit of fear in him now, that'll help me down the line. So that was always my mindset. And I told Dirk today, I said, dirk, the problem is there's no hierarchy. No one has to earn anything in this league anymore. So you hitting BD with the elbow is what we all went through. Somebody hit you with an elbow, and you hit BD with the elbow, and BD hit somebody else with the elbow. You know what I'm saying? And you just got to deal with it, right? And that's. And so getting a call in the NBA, if you was a rookie, you couldn't touch nobody. And so you had to play the cleanest defense ever, because if you touch somebody, you even remotely close, they calling a foul on you. And, and, and, and by the way, if they touch you, good luck. A referee would actually tell you at.

[Baron Davis]

That time, like the ref tell me to get up, don't play.

[Draymond Green]

And so in our league today, I told Dirk, I said, dirk, the problem is not everybody get caused. I said, so if you're a rookie and you drive and I foul you, they giving you that foul. I said, and the problem with that is all of us, what we had to go through to get a foul call or to be able to file, it was treacherous. And you had to go through the wringer to get that nowadays. I was telling him, I said, dirk, there was a play in the Laker game, I was telling him about when Dalton connect called me to be. And I called him a P. And I got attack, right? And I said, dirk, the problem is in that game, I said to the referee, There was a 50, 50 call, and I actually had all ball. And he gave Dalton connect a foul. And I said, yo, if it's any. If it's remotely close to 50, 50, I get the benefit of the doubt. He don't get the benefit of the doubt. I said, not actually hit ball, but if you thought it was 50, 50, I get the benefit of the doubt. He said, no, that ain't how it work. It do work like that. And you just ain't been here long enough to know it. Worked like that. And I said all of that to say. Just to hear you say, yo, you hit me with that elbow. It woke me up. We can't do that anymore. And wonder what's wrong with the game. There's no hierarchy in this game. And I just want to hear y'all thoughts on that.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Well, you know what? You absolutely right. When I was rookie, I stepped in front of Charles BARKLEY and Jake O'Donnell. Not Jake O'Donnell. I forget his name. Earl. Earl. I forget his name. But he. I stepped in front of Barkman and I just went like this and passed. He traveled. And he said, following you, Tim. And I said, well, I said. I said. I went to him. And Chris Mullen said, tim, Tim, come here to. Come here. He said, hey, man, leave him alone, Earl. Daryl Garrison, Garrison.

[Draymond Green]

Okay?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

He said. He said, tim, leave him alone. Leave him alone. He said, don't say nothing to him. I said, okay. And I just played the game and I left it alone. And like, two or three games, you know, we was on the road trip, we had Daryl Garrison again and everything. Daryl Garrison say, I like you. I said, why? He said, because you listen. You listen to Chris, some, some. Some. Some rookies would be like, oh, no, this and that and that. You listen to Chris and I like you, and. But he said, I feel a pop, you know, I still kick your ass out, but just understand that. You listen to Chris and you're a good guy. You understand what's going on. And I said, yeah. I said, yeah, I'm a rookie, and I understand that I got to be in my place, and I'm going to stay in my place.

[Baron Davis]

I love that, man. That's real.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

And referees back then, referees tell you.

[Baron Davis]

That they have personality. That's what I was going to say. To me, the referees, like, you got the power, right? And so today's referees, they're just repping the game. So they just call it a lot of times, what they see, they not creating the energy and a flow, you know what I mean? To let people, you know, like certain games, you know, Tim, you go into certain games, you see certain refs, it's like, oh, they gonna let us play tonight? You know what I mean? Certain dudes, they gonna have an early whistle. But, like, today is really, like, all. It's a. It's an inconsistent whistle because you're repping every play, and you're not a part of the fabric of the game. So there's no drama, right? There's no drama because, you know, ain't no mistakes made. So, like, even when you watching the game, it's like, it's hard to make a lot of mistakes when the goal is to shoot three pointers, you know what I mean? And like to shoot 43, so you can't really make no mistake or, you know, try and cross somebody up, catch somebody on the ISO and mess up because you don't have to. You know what I mean? And the rest don't either. Go ahead.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

But I want to tell you this, too. A lot of these young guys, they don't pay attention to the referees. They don't know the referee. They don't understand the referee. They think that the referee supposed to adjust to them. Yeah, no, you got to adjust to the referees. You know, like you said, Baron, you know which referees is gonna call a quick whistle, right? You know which referees don't like you.

[Baron Davis]

Yep.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You know. You know don't like you. And they. And it's not going to call a foul for you. And, you know, leave him alone. No matter what he does, you got to leave him alone because it's not going to get no better for you. And these guys, I see these guys today as I'm watching the game, they just don't adjust to the referees that don't like them. And you can tell the ones that don't like them because they don't call nothing for them. And they trying to steady go at him, Steady go at him, Steady go at him. The ref is like, I'm not calling nothing for you. I'm not. Somebody else may call it, but I'm not gonna call it. And instead he going to him, talking to him, he don't like you leave him alone. He's not gonna call nothing for you. You know, don't go over there and say, hey, how you doing? How your family doing? If you see him out, don't buy him nothing. Just leave him alone.

[Baron Davis]

Because he don't like, yeah, he ain't messing with you. Like, you know what I mean? But it used to be a referee to tell you like, hey, leave me alone. I don't like you. You know what I mean?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

They will tell you that.

[Baron Davis]

Hey, come on, you come over here and talk to me, I'm gonna give you a tech. And you like, man, he ain't messing with that. Hey, you ain't his type.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Used to be Joey Crawford. Joey Crawford used to tell you that in a heartbeat, don't come over here. Don't come over here. And then you steady walking. Yo, you want to get kicked out, he don't even play.

[Baron Davis]

Hey, Joey Crawford kicked me out of playoff game for clapping, bro. Hey, the Dallas series, Dre, I got kicked out. I think it was, like, game two or game five. And all I was doing was going, come on, guys, stop clapping. I'm like, what you mean? Stop clapping, man. Come on, guys, man. He said, boop, you're out of here.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

What?

[Draymond Green]

Hey.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah. No explanation.

[Draymond Green]

One of my favorite referees ever.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, he was one of my favorite referees. Referee said he did not play. Just. Just let him call the game.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

And it's gonna. It's gonna even out. It's gonna even out. If you just let him call the game, it's gonna even out. But if you don't let him call the game, you want him. Oh, we. Oh, and he take this personal, and he takes it to the next game. He sees. But I. But I love him. I love him because I love. Because I know, you know. Yep, it was going to be a fair game. Yep, it was going to be fair. And he was going to call it, right? He was going to call what he saw. It wasn't going to be like no phantom call. He going to call what he see.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

That's what I like about him.

[Draymond Green]

That's a fact. And if he don't see it, he'll tell you. I ain't see that. I'm not calling anything. I don't see Drake.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, I didn't see it. My bad. I was. I was looking at this. I was looking at that place.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, but that's, you know, that's a part of the game. That's a part of the education. You know, I just always felt like everybody played a role and, like, your basketball development, so the referee, the relationship, the not relationship, understanding the refs, your coach, and the opponent. You know what I mean? And so I think a lot of times, you know, when you look at the young dudes and, like, not respecting the hierarchy is because they ain't got no research. They coming in the game. Like, they're the first ones to do it. You know what I mean? And so that's the problem. That's the problem. Like, you ain't coming in the league. Like, yo, I want to be in this league, because so and so in this. You know what I mean?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

It's like, yeah, you don't have no vet, and you don't have no vet on the end of the bench. Like, at least one or two vets. When we came in, we had one or two vets. They knew they could still play. But they was like, all right, if they was called upon, they go in there and play. But they was in there to mentor everybody else. Yo, man, Nelly don't like this. Nelly like this. You know, this. How you gonna, this is how you gonna get him to love you. Just go out there and play and do the right play and do the right thing and this and that and everything will work out. Just go out there and play your hardest. Nelly gonna like this, you know, don't be hanging out. Don't have him see you drinking a beer after the game. Nothing like that. Especially as a rookie, you know, A rookie, you know, take your butt inside and be in your room and have a beer in your room or something like that, you know, but don't, don't be out here in a hallway, you know, in a restaurant or something, having a beer and stuff like that. So he, you know, the vet will tell you exactly what needs to be done, you know, and you just got to adhere to it.

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[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

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[AT&T Representative]

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[T-Mobile Representative]

You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirror ball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? Based in Nashville, we're more than just your basic NFL show. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything because we got lots to say. I. I texted you and you texted me back. Now, I don't know if you have the update, but like all the little thumbs up and heart and stuff, like, it's all colored. They changed it and the, the heart's a little pink. It felt like I told you I loved you. I'm going to be honest, it was a little pink.

[Baron Davis]

There was something sentimental when you, like when, when you see you send it, you're like, do I send the heart now?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't like the color edition.

[Baron Davis]

It's extremely pink.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Your podcasts presented by Capital One, founding.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Draymond Green]

I tell everybody all the time. When I first came to the warriors, they would do this for years at Oracle. I think they stopped doing it when we got over here, but for years at Oracle, they would do this. What's your favorite warrior moment? And all the fans, their favorite warrior moment. Their favorite moment as a Warrior memories as a warrior would be either, we believe, Baron Davis dunk on Andrea Karolenko or Run tmc. And so, you know, for me, coming here, like, that's what everybody would like. That's what everybody loved. That's what everybody talked about. And so that's all I were here about for you. Run tmc. You, Mitch Mully, what was the best thing on and off the court from those Run TMC years that y'all had together.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Camaraderie, camaraderie, friendship, wanting to do better as a team, always coming out an example. We was. We, Chris Mullen always set the bar. I mean, nobody could touch that bar. He came out, worked on this game an hour before practice, an hour after practice, in the weight room before the game. He still go out there ready to go, ready to play 82 games. Everybody set their bar for that. You know, everybody was. And you know what it was when y'all was winning championship. The team was together. We knew we. We knew that we wasn't no better than nobody else on the team. We knew that we needed a team to win. So we. We all was a team, and we treated each other like A team like, I didn't get no preferential, you know, treatment, and Chris or Mitch didn't. We just came out there and played, and we love playing. You know, the first time I went to, got signed, went there and signed Chris, like, what you want to do? I said, man, I want to play, man. I haven't played in five days, man, I want to play. I'm feigning to play. We went and played, and it was me, Chris, Mitch wasn't there, Rod Higgins and some other guys, man. We played for three hours. We just played for three hours. And I was on Chris theme. And I just wanted to get the feel of Chris. I just wanted to see where he liked the ball, how he liked the ball, running up down the court, just passing him, doing my thing and doing this and that. And that's how I got acclimated with Chris knowing how he won the ball, way he won the ball, and Mitch, too. You know, you got to know what he wanted out in the pocket, you know, lives, post up, all that type of stuff. And it's about communication, like you all. Communication, communication. A lot of these guys don't communicate with one another. That's why they not as good as, you know, the champion, you know, the finalist, get into the. Getting to the. To the ships. So you got it. You got to communicate to one another. And that's what we did, man. We love. We just love playing with one another, man. And we love hanging out with each other, man. Go to the movies, you know, go eat dinner together, you know, hang out as a team together. It was all about team nuts, man. And that's what made us, you know, real good with Run TMC and with the community, man. Went out in the community and done stuff in the community, man. We love the community. We went here, went to schools, went to centers, we went to parks. You know, somebody, Chris Mullen, you might. You might be driving down the street, Chris Mullen outside playing ball. That's the way it was, man. That's the way it was. That's fine, you know, But. But yeah, man, that's. That's. That's. That's why we. We blossom and that's why we. We were so good with each other.

[Baron Davis]

No, we love Run tmc. I always say y'all the pioneers also of, like, when hip hop and the NBA happen, you know, So a lot of shout outs to Run tmc. And for you, you know, you are one of my top five warriors of all time. I want to ask you the question, who, what is your top Five or. Who are your top five warriors of all time?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Well, you know, Chris Mullen, Mitch Richmond, of course.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You know. You know, it was a lot of guys that came through there that played and left.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

And. And, you know, after one or two years and went somewhere else and played well. Yeah, you know Sleepy Floyd. Oh, you know, Sleepy was a lot of people. Yeah, Sleepy was cold, man. Of course, you know Rick Barry. You know, of course, Rick Barry.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I mean, you got. You got. You got a man. Come on, man, if you don't please pick Rick Barry up there. Oh, man, Rick Bear was cold, man. A lot of people don't know, man. Rick Barry was a cold. And he was nasty with it, too. Yeah, he was nasty with it, too, man. He could put that ball in the basket just like Chris Mullen. He could put that ball in the basket, man. You know, and that's. What's that? That's four. And I gotta give, you know, you. You can say. Will you say, my man, he passed away too. I forget. Oh, boy.

[Baron Davis]

He was serious.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

He was serious. When. You know what, When Nate Thurman walked in the room, everybody was like, that's. That was his presence.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, he walked in the room, straightened up.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

That was his presence, you know, and, you know, he's like, you know, y'all, y'all stop it, man. You're a legend, man. You're a legend. You're a pioneer. You was a pioneer. God rest all day. So, man, you know, it's. It's. I put in about eight of them. That's the five I would do, man. But, man, I mean, it was some cold people coming out of. Out of the Warriors.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. Warriors birth legends. Warriors birth legends, man.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I'm just talking about my era and before my.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I'm not talking about now. You know, it's you, Baron, it's Clay, Draymond and Curry, you know. You know, and those guys. I mean, Richard Richardson.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. You know, I mean, come on, man.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Come on, man. I mean, it's a lot. It was lots of trails pretty well, you know. You know, there's a lot. It's a lot of people that came through there, man. That. That was cold blooded.

[Draymond Green]

That was cold blooded for sure. No, that's a fact. That's. That's a tough list, man. I don't think people realize how deep the warriors history go back, you know, I think a lot of people get caught, obviously, and we.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

The barrier do, though. The barrier does for sure.

[Draymond Green]

The base support that they own like.

[Baron Davis]

No other World, like, absolutely.

[Draymond Green]

The way the base support.

[Baron Davis]

They all world next to the Dodger fans, though.

[Draymond Green]

Look. Look at you. Stop.

[Baron Davis]

All right.

[Draymond Green]

You could have left that where it was at. Nobody need that. Nobody. Nobody need that here.

[Baron Davis]

Dodgers. My faul.

[Bobby Bones]

Cubs fan.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I'm not even a Cub fan. Cubby.

[Draymond Green]

Go, Yankees, go.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah.

[Baron Davis]

Hold up, hold up. You're not.

[Draymond Green]

You're not.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You're not on it. The. The Tigers. Detroit Tigers.

[Draymond Green]

No, no.

[Baron Davis]

He ain't even a Detroit Lions fan. He a Cowboys.

[Draymond Green]

Not a Detroit Lions fan. Cowboys. That's disgusting.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You're not. You're not a Lions fan from. From here?

[Draymond Green]

No, I'm not. I like to see the Lions win, though. I definitely like to see the Lions win. But. And I root for the Lions, but I'm not a Lions fan. I'll tell you why I'm not a Lions fan or a Tigers fan.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, the reason being they didn't invite him to the game when he was a kid. Check this out.

[Draymond Green]

Check this out. I wasn't. I wasn't a Detroit Pistons fan until I got really close with the Dumars. And then, like, naturally, like, come on, like this, man. Taking us to games, like, opening his eyes.

[Baron Davis]

It's all about taking you to games, bro.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah. No, I'm just saying, like, you take well for a kid from Saginaw, you right? I ain't had access to games like that, you know, but, like, just showing us a life that I never even imagined was possible for me, you know what I'm saying? Like, you could not support that. But I'll tell you why I wasn't a fan of the Detroit teams growing up is because growing up playing basketball now as I've grown older, I cheer for them like I'm from there. And so I'm always going to want to see them win. But just the way that I am to my core, growing up as a kid, I never would allow myself to root for the Detroit teams, because when we were growing up and playing AAU basketball, Saginaw pride, we go to these tournaments, and the kids from Detroit would treat us like we might as well be from Louisiana. Like, if you're not from Detroit, they don't care about you being from the state of Michigan. You not from Detroit. Get out our face. You know what I'm saying? And so, for me, I have a lot of pride in Saginaw and trying to put a city like that as a young kid, thinking like, man, I want to put this place on the map. And then they're treating you like yo, you ain't from Detroit. Get out my face, like. And so I'm like, well, I'm not rooting for anything in Detroit because y'all gonna treat us like that. But then I'm supposed to be like, oh, that's my hometown team. Like, but you treat me like I'm an outcast, and I might as well be from Timbuktu. And so as a kid and just having that crazy chip on my shoulder at that time, I was like, forget everything Detroit. Like, I don't care for Detroit at all.

[Baron Davis]

That's a damn shame.

[Draymond Green]

Y'all treat us like that, and, you know, but as I grown older and just being away from home, I'll always rep because, you know everybody. Like, I'm a rep the crib over anything, but just. You know what I'm saying? But the world know I'm from Saginaw now. You know what I'm saying? So it is what it is. But I had a crazy chip towards anything Detroit just because of the way the people would treat us, you know, coming from a small city like Saginaw.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

So, Dre, I'm gonna tell you a story. I'm gonna tell you a story. So I'm with the Miami Heat. I'm a scout for the Miami Heat. I come and see. You know, I was always at. I was always at the Big Ten games, especially you, because of Tim and all that. I'm writing you up. I'm like, this is Miami Heat culture right here. I say, draymond Green is Miami Heat culture. We need. We need to draft him. We need to draft him. Dude, he gonna come in. He knows how to play. He gonna play his role. He gonna play defense. You don't give everybody confidence. This dude can play the game of basketball.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

And Pat was like, I don't want him. I said, why? He never gave me a reason. So every time you came to Miami to go to state war, he and y'all. Y'all beat us there. Me and Pat look at each other, and he said. He said. He said. He looked at me, he said, you better not say that. You know, he's not saying, you bet not. He kept looking at me. I was like, I told you so, right? I said. I said, we would have had him. And just his presence in the game and knowing the game, I'm not saying it would have been like this, but we could have won three in a row. With LeBron. I'm talking about with LeBron, D. Wade, and Chris Bosh. I felt comfortable with you being on that team, coming in and doing what you're supposed to do because you was the type of Heat player we should have. Yeah, we needed.

[Draymond Green]

I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know what's crazy, OG is I is Miami was one of the teams that I thought was, would be really high on me during the draft. And, you know, I'm sliding in the draft.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah. And I was in that green room. I was in the green room.

[Draymond Green]

I was like, you know, it really baffled me to see the Miami Heat draft Arnett Moultrie, because I'm like, draft Arnett Moultrie. Like, this dude had all type of character, red flags when we was coming out in the draft. And, you know, he was. The upside of him as a player was insane, but he had all type of character issue, red flags. And I'm like, they gonna draft this guy. But they talk about all of the character stuff and how you gotta be a high character guy to play in Miami and leave me sitting right here. And I would watch those teams, those Miami teams with Bron and be like, yeah, and D. Wade and Bosh and be like, I would have fit right in there. Like, I could have brought exactly what that team needed. Low salary, because I was low energy. I would've been on a low pick in the first round. I could have brought with that team. Neither. I agree. I felt that. And to see Arnett Moultrie get drafted there and have character issues, I was immediately like, oh, they not about what they talk, what they say they about. They say they're about this character and that. And Heat guys, they not about what they say they about. Yeah, my mindset after, when I didn't, when I saw who y'all drafted and didn't draft me, I was like, they not about what they say there about.

[Baron Davis]

What, what is feet.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

No, no, no, no, no. He. Coaches, I'm gonna tell you this. I, I, I mean, we, we are about that Heat culture is, is what you bring Drake, you go out there, you practice. You don't. You, you don't you understand what it's about? I, I see a lot of people. I love Pat because pays attention to detail, got you ready to play, made you understood what you need to do, made you understood how to get better. All right. I came in there knowing that I could still play, knowing what I can do and everything. So I. Both of us needed each other. He needed me to come and run his team. He needed eight point guard to come in and run his team the way it needed to be ran. Like, he wanted to be ran. That's the way I that's how I came in and that's what I did. Okay. You know, work ethic, work ethic. Don't about, you know this, don't about that. Just come in, do your job, and when it's time for you to play, come in and play. And that's what he culture is. He culture is about team. He culture is about leaving all that out and everybody in his playing for the Heat. We're not playing for the name on that back. We playing for the Heat and we know what we need to do and we coming in and doing it no matter what. And that's what he culture is. A lot of people want to do their own stuff and that's not he coaching. You're not going to do your own. You're not going to do your own. You're gonna do what you supposed to do with the team. He never wavered. Nobody was special on that team. You knew who was the guy. You knew who was this, you knew who was that. Everybody knew that. But it was about the team and we always play as a team, no matter what.

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[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else you can find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? Based in Nashville, we're more than just your basic NFL show. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything because we got lots to say. I. I texted you, and you texted me back. Now, I don't know if you have the update, but, like, all the little thumbs up and heart and stuff, like, it's all colored. They changed it, and the whole heart's a little pink. It felt like I told you I loved you. I'm gonna be honest. It was a little pink.

[Baron Davis]

There was something sentimental when you. When you send it. It was like, do I send the heart Now?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't like the color edition.

[Baron Davis]

It's extremely pink.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball. If only there were a professional WNBA player with her own own podcast I could listen to.

[Lexi Brown]

Hey, this is Lexi Brown, WNBA player and professional yapper.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

And this is Mariah Rose. You may know me from spilling the tea on Hoops for Hotties on Tick Tock.

[Lexi Brown]

And we've got a new podcast, Full Circle every Wednesday.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

We're catching you up on what's going on in women's basketball, and not just in the wnba, but with Athletes Unlimited unrivaled and college basketball.

[Lexi Brown]

We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit. I know you guys have seen a lot of former and current basketball players telling their stories from their point of view, and I just think it's time for the girlies to tap in.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

We want to share all of the women's basketball stories that you won't see anywhere else.

[Lexi Brown]

Tune into Full Circle, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Draymond Green]

So. So. So is that. Is that what's affecting the heat right now with Jimmy Butler? Is. Is. Is they're essentially saying that Jimmy wasn't being a part of heat culture anymore.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, that. But. But that's patent fault to me, all right? You let him fly on his own private jet different places, and he'll meet the team for shooting round. You let that stuff get out of Hand you let Jimmy Butler come in and say this and that, you know, this and that. You let it get out of hand. And then when Jimmy Butler. Now I'm gonna tell you that he deserves his money. He deserves his money. Everybody deserved a month. All right? But you can't play 60 of the games. And I'm in the play in game. And then we got to work just as hard to get to where we need to get to. I need, I need to not be in a playing game. I need to be sick. If he played 75, 73 the 4C, right? Easy, easy. They the fourth seed. They got a week off. They rested. But now they're in a playing game. You know, now you know. And you know, I, I. Enough was enough. Enough was enough. And, and I say this, Pat, you gotta understand, Pat is in the driver's seat, okay? We don't have to trade you. We don't have to trade and you still under contract, understand? You want to get traded, but you still got to go out there and not jeopardize games. You shoot a one legged shot in the corner. When have you seen Jimmy Butler shoot a one legged shot in the corner? Okay, another thing, when you know, and you see him pass the ball when he's supposed to come off a pick and roll, he passed it to the defender. You know, it was just, and I say this, and I should have worded it differently. People think that Pat sent in a 10 page letter or film. I, I'm saying that if you want to question what Pat did and suspended him. Pat has a 10 page letter or a 10 page whatever he gonna have and film to send to you and show you what he's talking about and why he suspended him. Okay? And you go from there. Pat is always ready. Pat is always ready. That's why he didn't do nothing with that dang little tray. You know, I'm not giving up Bam. I'm not giving up hero. I am not giving them young boys up no matter what, okay? And it got a benefit. It gotta benefit the Heat. And that's what they don't understand. If it don't benefit the Heat, Pat is not gonna do it. And, and Jimmy needs to just go out there and play and, and his agent need to just be cool and everybody needs to just go out there and play. And if you want to trade, it will happen. But you got to go out there and, and, and, and obey your contract because you still under contract. That's what I say.

[Baron Davis]

You playing tonight.

[Draymond Green]

Jimmy is back playing tonight. Yeah, he's back playing. So say he do go out there and play. And he go out there and play well, he looked like Jimmy that was taking the Miami Heat to the NBA Finals. Is there a possibility that they could mend this, or is it over?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

What Jimmy said to Pat in his face, he wants to get traded. He wants to get out of there. I think it's over. I don't think there's no patching up because he told him in his face what he wants. He wants to be traded. But that is like, I don't want Bradley Bill. He came. They came out and said, I don't want Bradley Bill. I don't want to take on that contract, you know? So he. He gonna have to find something that benefits him in the Miami Heat. And him and Mickey are on the same page now. If it gets out of hand, then they can sit him down and say, look, just stay at home. We'll pay you. And. And I don't believe me, personally, I don't believe he gonna opt out of 52 million. I don't die. I trip. I triple. Dog dare you.

[Baron Davis]

That's a lot of dough, man.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

That's a lot of dough.

[Draymond Green]

You know, and the problem is, if you opt out of the 52, it's hard for another team to just come and outright pay you $52 million. They gotta have a max contract, a super max slot. It's hard to find that, man. People don't be understanding these rules.

[Baron Davis]

And a collective bargaining. You know what I'm saying?

[Draymond Green]

Exactly. Like, it's hard for a team to just come and be like, oh, yeah, we gonna give you $40 million. Like, it'd be hard to create that type of cap space. Especially with this new second April. I don't think people understand that. It's tough, even with the trade. Like, everybody's saying, like, yo, you know, he gonna get traded. It's.

[Baron Davis]

It, like, he's hard to trade.

[Draymond Green]

It's hard to trade a guy that make $52 million a year. Like, you gotta give up. For instance, if you look at our roster, say. Say you wanna trade. Say you wanna trade for Jimmy. With the least. With the least amount of players that you could on our roster.

[Baron Davis]

That's four.

[Draymond Green]

That means either you gotta trade Jimmy straight up for Steph.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

Or you have to trade Jimmy for me and Wigs. And it's like, right. So I don't think you're going to do that. So then now you start looking at what else you got to trade.

[Baron Davis]

Like, five guys to Mess up money.

[Draymond Green]

One guy, then you. Exactly. Then you start getting into. Well, you need a third team because now you got a clear roster. It's hard to trade. And then also another thing is people don't understand in this league when you start talking trades, it's great. Players don't get traded.

[Baron Davis]

Right, right.

[Draymond Green]

Like, that just don't happen like great players in their prime. You don't get traded, you know.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, I mean, it's going to be difficult, man. It's going to be difficult. Difficult. You know, like I said, I wish everybody get their money, which. Everybody get their money and be happy, but it's going to be hard out. It's going to be hard.

[Baron Davis]

Well, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to find the team that needs you to get over the hump. Don't have the cap space. That's it. So, yeah, if that's true, if they were to make a move for you, then they gotta debunk everything that they build up towards to fit you in the puzzle. And so.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Right.

[Baron Davis]

I don't see it happening either. I do. I mean, I love to see him get his money, but, you know, it's a good. Miami got a good squad, right. Him and Pat, they ain't gonna really see eye to eye. Some gonna have to go, but, you know, he gonna have to play his way back into who he is to get his value back, first and foremost.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

And you let your teammates down, man. You letting your teammates down, man.

[Baron Davis]

Right?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Your teammates, they. They need you. They want you. They want you to play. They want you to be there. It's. It's been a lot of disgruntled people that was upset with management. Allah, Michael Jordan. But he made it work. Yeah, you know, he made it work. You know, it's plain and simple, you know, but, you know, Kobe was upset.

[Draymond Green]

With management in la.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, Kobe, he made it work. He made it work, you know, so, yeah, I mean. I mean, you can make it work. It's up to Jimmy. I still think it could work, man. I still think it could work if, you know your team, the team, I think, you know, hero, bam. And those guys have to come to Jimmy and be like, yo, Jimmy, man, we need you, man. Just. Just come out here and just play and let the chips fall where they gonna fall. Because if you do what you say you're capable of doing, and if you.

[Baron Davis]

Play, y'all got a chance.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You got a chance. You know, I'm gonna tell you this. Boston is scared of Jimmy. They don't want to see Jimmy play. They scared of Jimmy.

[Draymond Green]

They don't like to see Jimmy coming.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

No, Milwaukee is scared of Jimmy.

[Draymond Green]

That's a fact. They don't like to see him coming either.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

See Jimmy coming. I watch the games all the time. He'd be out there abusing folks.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

They. They scared of his defense. They scared his offense. They scared him making, you know, making plays. They just scared of him. So, I mean, if he plays and if he write, everything is cool with them.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

And you got a young hero that's healthy now. That's healthy. That's looking at itself.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. He ball.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

He could be an all Star this year.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You know, so, I mean, they got some pieces and they, you know, they eight, nine. And if Jimmy comes and play, they go. If they win six in a row, they right there. Five, four.

[Draymond Green]

Yep.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Easy.

[Draymond Green]

And that's exactly where you want to be before. I want. We want to talk to you just about being an NBA father, but before we do. And just speaking of the Heat years, I'm sorry to do this, but do you remember when BD dunked on you?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, everybody gets dumped. I tell everybody. Everybody gets dunked on. Yeah, I remember that.

[Draymond Green]

Shot blockers get dunked on. Not point guards. Shot blockers get dunked up.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I went for it. I thought I could get it, you know, I thought I could jump a little bit higher, you know. You know, you in the game, baby. You in the game. You know, you're adrenaline, you know. Hey, hey. Yeah. Yeah. It happened. You know it happened. You know, that was the elbow. He remembered the elbow.

[Baron Davis]

He walked away like.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You didn't catch me slipping. You did catch me slipping. I thought I could get it. My leafs wasn't as high as yours.

[Draymond Green]

Happened to the best of it. I got some bad ones, too. I got some real bad ones dunked on me so bad, I pushed him down.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Everybody gonna get dunked on.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Everybody gonna shoot an airball. Everybody gonna shoot a brick.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Everybody gonna turn the ball over, and that's basketball. Everybody gonna get shook. Yeah, everybody gonna get shook. That's a fact.

[Baron Davis]

The thing is, people nowadays are afraid of that. So you don't. You don't have, you know, moments where it's, you know, a changing of the guards right to that hierarchy. Like, damn, this dude been bullying me. We ain't got past the playoffs because I gotta overcome Draymond and whatever he think he got psychologically against me. That's always been the pecking order and the pedigree of the NBA and Nowadays, guys are running away from the. The real thing. Like, you don't see superstars challenging each other, Right. They guard the other dude on the team, right? So it's. They running from the charge, you know, Are they. They coming in to take a charge? 7 foot. I used to hate when big dudes take charges. I used to cuss.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Baron Davis]

What you taking a charge for?

[Draymond Green]

You know what I mean?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah. I'm. I'm gonna tell you, a guy that. That don't get a lot of recognition, that was a bad. Kevin John.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

All right. Me and Kevin Johnson. Wheat. When we played against each other, I guarantee you neither one of us got a full night's sleep because we. Because we knew what was gonna go down the next day. We was gonna go out there and we stuck each other. I'm not. I know. You switch off on Dan. No, I'm getting over picks. I'm staying in front of him. Yeah, try to stay. Try. I'm gonna try to stay in front of you. All right. I'm gonna try not to get crossed over, you know, left and right. I' get dunked on.

[Baron Davis]

Right.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Because he will dump on you, you know? You know, I know he couldn't make threes. You know, he started making threes at the end of his career and stuff like that. But I'm gonna tell you this, man, that was a bad. That was a bad. A lot of people. A lot of people don't know how bad Kevin Johnson was that, man. He was tough. Gary Pace.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Gary Payton. We used to go at each other. Rod Strickland.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Get enough credit.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, man.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

We. Terry Porter.

[Baron Davis]

Yes.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

That's a. In the west, man. That was straight dogs, man. A lot of people don't understand that. And we had to come with it. Every night. Every night.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You know, you. You know, now you probably take day off while, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm just going. It's gonna be a cruise here. It's gonna be a cruise there. Not in the West. Not back then.

[Baron Davis]

All right. Yeah, right.

[Draymond Green]

Every night. It was.

[Baron Davis]

The only night off was really like the Clippers.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Well, you know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna do that to my man because, you know, Mark was there. Mark was there when I was with the warriors, so he was there.

[Baron Davis]

Okay.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You know.

[Draymond Green]

Okay.

[Baron Davis]

They was competitive.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

They just couldn't finish.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah.

[Baron Davis]

Nobody was there. They had no crowd to get them over there over the edge.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

No, no, no, no. They did. And they was playing a usc they was playing a usb. I'm tell you something, I'm gonna tell you something. Usc back then, they car was so bad, man, so you had that. You. You didn't only have to have a slipknot, you had to have a wet towel. Yeah, wet towel. So you get some crip on there every time on their foot on a wet towel so they can get some grip. And if you. Another thing. And you know how you. Like now, if you pass the ball, Boston Celtics and Washington Wizards back then and Wizards, But. But when you throw the ball and you know, if you. If you throw it, a bounce pass that skid. So you gotta know how to bounce back. And I'm gonna tell you this. I played in The Boston Guard 1 the 1st. I was rich playing Boston Guard. So Nelly said, yo, dribble the ball. We used to go to, you know where it was bad spots in Boston Guard. Just dribble the ball. Dribble the ball. And it was a dead spot right up under the rim. It was like two or three dead spots right up under the rim. And Dee Brown was sticking me, and he followed me right to that dead spot. And I was dribbling the ball, and the ball stayed down. I thought I was still dribbling and he was laying the ball up. Nelly called a timeout. And he said, didn't we go over that this morning? I said, yeah. I said, but I wasn't. He said, why wasn't you thinking you. He was following you right there. I told you that. That's why we was dribbling the ball. So you know, the dead spot.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I said, okay, my bad. He said, I'm tired of hearing my bad. I said, okay, what you want me to say? I'm not gonna do it no more? I said, I'm not gonna do it no more. I didn't do it no more. But. But Nelly was mad because, you know, he played at the With Ball one championship, and he had all his people there and all this and all that. He cussed me out so bad when I hit that ds, but I was like, wow, oh, I won't go that. I won't go that way no more.

[Baron Davis]

Nelly was spontaneous, man. He'd be your best friend, man. He cuts you out.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

It cuts you out. And, you know, and Nelly was always trying to change the rules. That's why the rules have changed now. Yeah, you know the root. I'm gonna tell you why the rules have changed. Nelly knew Dirk Nowinski couldn't stick nobody, so he got the rules changed. So they could play his own. If you think about it. If you think about it, that he always tried, always trying to get the rules.

[Baron Davis]

We used to practice how to finesse the rules. The out of bounds play where you could have two dudes out of bounds on the sideline.

[Draymond Green]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Baron Davis]

He finessed every rule that we could to get our advantage.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Every day we went over there, we used to go over. Y'all think we could do this? I don't know. Let's. Let's try. Let's try it. Let's try it one time. Let's try it one time. We go over that and shoot around. We. We tried it and shoot around. And, you know, he said, you know what? We're gonna try that after time out, we're gonna try it and get. And teams will be like, what are y'all doing? Yeah, right. What are y'all doing?

[Draymond Green]

Nelly the finesser.

[Baron Davis]

Hey, Jerry, he'll make you walk by the dude in front of, like, you taking the ball out of bounds, and I'll be walking towards you, and I act like somebody pushed me out of bounds and run behind you.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Nelly said, every time you go to the basket, just yell. They give you a call. And I was like, I'm from Chicago. I don't yell. We just go to the basket. We take the hit, you know, and that's why. That's why I got to yelling and stuff. Oh, wow. Wow. Oh, that works.

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[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else are you gonna find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? Based in Nashville, we're more than just your basic NFL show. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit everything. Because we got lots to say. I. I texted you and you texted me back. Now, I don't know if you have the update, but, like, all the little thumbs up and heart and stuff, like, it's all colored. They changed it and the. The heart's a little pink. It felt like I told you I loved you. I'm going to be honest, it was a little pink.

[Baron Davis]

There was something sentimental when you, like when. When you send it, you're like, do I send the heart now?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't like the color edition.

[Baron Davis]

It's extremely pink.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball. If only there were a professional WNBA player with her own podcast I could listen to.

[Lexi Brown]

Hey, this is Lexi Brown, WNBA player and professional yapper.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

And this is Mariah Rose. You may know me from spilling the tea on Hoops for Hotties on Tik Tok.

[Lexi Brown]

And we've got a new podcast, Full Circle every Wednesday.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

We're catching you up on what's going going on in women's basketball, and not just in the wnba, but with athletes Unlimited unrivaled and college basketball.

[Lexi Brown]

We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit of tea. I know you guys have seen a lot of former and current basketball players telling their stories from their point of view, and I just think it's time for the girlies to tap in.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

We want to share all of the women's basketball stories that you won't see anywhere else.

[Lexi Brown]

Tune into Full Circle and I heard women's sports production, in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Draymond Green]

Speaking of all the guys you was just talking about, you gotta. You. We had Penny on Penny gave a top five point guard. A top. Top. Penny gave a top five. Yeah, point guard list. You got. You got your top five PG list.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Man, I'm gonna tell you this, man. It's hard to just pick, you know, I'm gonna tell you this person that just a guy that just passed away yesterday that nobody knows about. The Wizard.

[Baron Davis]

The Wizard. The wizard, man. Hey, one man, fast break.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You talking about Dennis Johnson? You talking about Nate the Skate Archie? It's a lot of out there. I mean, that could really cool, man, but, you know, grew up watching this guy and. And Isaiah Thomas. Yeah, we're watching them pattern my game after him. Isaiah Thomas. That. That's. That's number one, you know, and, you know, I'm gonna say this. What is Alan Iris. And was he a two? Was he a one?

[Baron Davis]

He was a two.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Right. See that. That's the thing. You know? You know, that's the thing. So do we rate him as a point guard? Do we rate him as a. As a off guard? No, you know, yeah, he's a two. Okay, so, you know, definitely Isaiah. Magic. No, God, the. That he used to do and. And all, man. It. It was ridiculous at 6, 9.

[Baron Davis]

Right, right.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Who else is it? Myself.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, right. Absolutely.

[Draymond Green]

Okay.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Steph. No question. Steph.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, no question.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, that's four. And I'm gonna say this. Was Dwyane Wade a one or a two?

[Draymond Green]

Two.

[Baron Davis]

Two. He came in as the one, though.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

He came in as a one for sure.

[Draymond Green]

Yes, he did.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

But he. But he like after that, too. Okay, who else got four, Dr. You know, I gotta go with my man Naked skate. Yeah, I gotta go. Okay. I like. I gotta go. Escape skate was man, for three years in a row to average. I mean, to lead the league and scoring and assist for three years in a row. It's crazy skate, man.

[Draymond Green]

You spoke about being from Chicago. We all heard about the Chicago runs. I had the opportunity to go to a couple of them in my day, which is after the heyday of him. But Brian recently was talking the other day about getting on the court with MJ being there. I was there, and he was unguardable. And I know you were there.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I was there.

[Draymond Green]

So I just want to know, was he really as unguardable as he say he was the other day in the clip that he was talking about being unguardable in that pickup game?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You talking about Mike unguardable?

[Draymond Green]

No. Was Bron as unguardable as he. Bron said he was unguardable. That Day he got out there.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yes, yes. I was listening to Maverick. He was talking about LeBron being at the. At there. We wanted to see what he had and what he could do. He didn't do it all the time because he, he, he had, he. He had broke his wrist and he. And it was like, it was like a week after his. He took the cast off, he came in, he was playing and he came down on a fast break and we thought he was gonna pass. The. Took off from the free throw line. He just took off. He missed. He missed. But the. Just. I mean, just like that, we, we thought he was gonna pass. It was, it was a three on two. We thought he was gonna pass and it was like in slow motion. The. And I was like, damn, he just missed. The ball slipped out of his hand. He missed. But I said, you know, that's incredible. That's incredible. I mean for, for a 16, 17 year old kid to come in and do some shit like that. And he was making shots, playing defense, passing the ball. You could, you, you could feel his presence. You could feel his presence then you could feel you. You knew that he was going to be. Be that in the NBA. You knew that.

[Baron Davis]

Wow.

[Draymond Green]

So for everybody out there who say Brian be lying about all these stories he told and you know, the OG right here, he ain't. Oh, nobody.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was real. He was real. That 16, seven, that thing was 17, 18, whatever. He was real. Yeah. Yes.

[Baron Davis]

Hey, Tim, talk about, you know, Isaiah Thomas being your favorite player. We got a clip where you hit him with the UTEP2 step. I need to know won that moment. But also the origination of the UTEP2 step. How did that come about?

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Well, it came about cause everybody be like, you know, we had gang in Chicago and I didn't like going out because that's when people started shooting up places and backyards and all that type of stuff. And gangs, you know, motherfuckers following you in cars and, you know, all this stuff. It was crazy. It was wild. So I'm still in high school and so I just used to work on my game. I had an unfinished basement downstairs. We didn't have. We didn't have computers. We had three channels on the tv. Yeah, we had. We had three channels on the TV and it got stale. So I used to go downstairs and. And I had two beans and I just used to work on you behind the back. Dribbles, spin moves, in and out moves, crossover playing like I'm. It was like a 8 foot ceiling I used to make layups, come coming down, doing some stuff and just. Just working on my game downstairs for about an hour. And it was snow, you know, it's cold outside. You didn't go outside either. So I'm just out there working on my. Just working on ball handling. So that's where my ball handling came in. And I used to go outside during the summer and play against the guys outside. And we used to have this on the sidewalk. It was like if you could steal the ball from a person, it was like four. Four people. And I used to drove between four or five people. Hold this guy off. And if you go. And if you go on the grass, that's out of the top. Yeah, I used to control, push off and just do all that type of stuff. I used to go back and forth for about three or four times. And then I'd like. I get it stole just so, you know, game go on and like that.

[Baron Davis]

So you.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Yeah, I had some friends that I could, you know, work on my right. Yeah, if you want. Yeah. So. So I went to go see Isaiah. My coach took me out. I was. I was in sixth grade. Go. Not seventh grade. Coach took me out at school. He said, we went to the amphitheater. He said, I want you to check out number 11. I said, all right, cool. Say, Joseph, I'm checking him out. Like, why that cold in my mind and stuff. He said, what you think? I said, he. He cold blooded. He nice. And he said, you play like him. I said, get the out of here. I said, oh, you know what? My bad, I'm sorry. I said my bad. I'm sorry. I said, you. Nah, I don't play like him. He said. He said. He said, I'm gonna tell you something. You play just like him. You got the confidence like him. You control the team like him. You make shots like him. You do all the things that he's doing right now. Just in seventh grade and at that particular time when he told me that I started watching Isaiah pattern in my game when he went to Indiana. I steady watched him steady watched him and just pattern in my game after he came back for some believe watched him love. I knew knew they scheduled, knew when he was gonna play. I'm there an hour ahead of time. I'm in the front row watching them play, you know, and so. And so he kept in touch with me. Somebody told him about me. And we was at a high school summer league game and we playing and they said, yeah, we got a surprise for y'all. Whoever make The Final Four, you know, the teams, they come in and we got a special guest, but you. And somebody told me, and I told my team, I said, I don't know what y'all gonna do, but I'm gonna be here every game, and I'm making the Final Four. Yeah, I'm making the Final Four. And Isaiah came in there and talked. And after he talked, everybody's like, you know, everybody's up. Lee say, hey, Tim Hardaway, let me talk to you. You want to talk to me? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He talked to me. Say, yeah. Somebody told me that you've been patterning your game after me. I've been checking you out. I've been keeping tabs on you and stuff like that. And I was just blown away. He just said, keep doing what you're doing. Go to school, get your education. You know, I don't know if you're gonna make it. Nothing like that. But he said, just. Just use basketball. Get your education and. But you. You playing well, man, and keep up good work and keep your confidence and keep playing. Said, okay, and. And so. And so. So we came to Detroit my rookie year. He came to pick me up at the hotel and went to his house, had pregame meal, and on a drive back to the hotel, I'm like, how am I gonna tell this, man, I appreciate you taking me to your house and feed me, but I'm still gonna bust your ass. So before I got it out, he said, now, you know, I. Because, you know, can't, you know, took you out for pregame meal to the house and everything, talk to you. I hope you don't take it easy. I was like, you know what? I was gonna. I was gonna. I've been trying to figure out how. Yeah, I'm not gonna take it easy. That's what I want to hear. And we. We played. We've beat him here, too, in. In Detroit, and. But, yeah, man, I always wanted to play against him, man. And it's like the highlight of your whole career when you play. Yes, that dude.

[Baron Davis]

That's how it was, man.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Man, it's. It's. It's. It's. I know how you feel, Baron, but, man, it was. It was. Was. It was like, wow. I mean, it was one of those moments. It was one of those moments.

[Baron Davis]

Absolutely.

[Draymond Green]

Idols become rivals, man. We can't thank you enough. Oh, gee, that was incredible. Just hearing the stories. You always welcome on here. You ever need somebody. Somewhere to pop your, you can always come here.

[Baron Davis]

Tell the truth.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Man, I appreciate it. I love. I love hearing y'all. Y'all keep it as real as it get. Y'all watching y'all and. And. And both of y'all. Both of y'all, they need to. To listen to you all more. You know, people be like, yeah, Draymond, he needs to be quiet. This and that, blah, blah, this and that. But I'm like, he's telling the truth, though.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I said, baron, tell the truth. I mean, what? What? What? I don't. I don't understand y'all. Y'all want people to tell the truth, but y'all mad that they telling the truth.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I don't understand it. But. But. But y'all keep doing what y'all doing, man, and keep inspiring. Inspiring. These kids, they not. They only listen to me so much. Dre, they listen to you because you out there doing it. Baron. They listen to you because you. You. You. You just remove. And so they can relate to you. And plus, you got an AAU team and you out there that. Doing your thing with them. So y'all keep inspiring these kids, man. And I tell these kids with the nil money, now, what is the rush of going to the NBA?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

Anyone?

[Baron Davis]

No, I get all you can.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Why don't you work on your game to perfection so when you come in, you don't have to play in the G League.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You come in, you could be ready right away.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

You know, listen, a lot of these kids don't want to listen to their college coach. No college coach. That's what we did. We listen to our coaches. We respect our coaches. We listen to our coaches. That's why we made it. That's why. That's why it was easy for us.

[Baron Davis]

Yes.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Because. Because we listened and we understood what they were saying. They think that you hating on me. Me. It's criticism. You don't like me and this and that. That's why they transfer. Stay there, take adversity looking in the eye and say, you're gonna get better. That's what y'all doing with these kids today.

[Baron Davis]

Appreciate you, og. It's amazing.

[Draymond Green]

Thank you.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Much love. Yeah. Don't let Baron Davis tell you about two weeks ago.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, man.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Hey.

[Baron Davis]

It's coming out on tape. They did it. They did us dirty in the comm.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

I know. Oh, did they? You saw it already?

[Baron Davis]

No. I can just imagine. We was breaking.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Wow. Wow. It wasn't nice. It wasn't nice.

[Baron Davis]

It wasn't cool. It wasn't cool. Yes, sir.

[Draymond Green]

We appreciate you.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

See y'all at All Star.

[Baron Davis]

Yes, sir.

[Tim Hardaway Sr.]

Stay healthy, Drake.

[Draymond Green]

Yes, sir. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll see you at All Star.

[Bobby Bones]

The Volume. Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else you gonna find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ashlyn Harris]

We all have a moment that splits us wide open. On my new podcast, Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, I'll sit down with trailblazers from sports, sports, music, fashion, entertainment, and politics to explore their toughest moments and the incredible comebacks that followed. Listen to Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, an iHeart women's sports production on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball.

[Lexi Brown]

This is Lexi Brown and Mariah Rose, and we've got a new podcast, Full Circle.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

Every Wednesday, we're catching you up on what's going on in women's basketball.

[Lexi Brown]

We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit of tea.

[Elf Beauty Representative]

Full circle is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Full circle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Baron Davis]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd.

[Draymond Green]

I love writing more than anything. You're left alone, you know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours, you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on.

[Baron Davis]

Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.